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Football Weekly
Arsenal pull away at top and Spurs grab a late point at Liverpool – Football Weekly
00:59:01
Robyn Cowen is joined by Jonathan Wilson, Lucy Ward, and Dan Bardell as Arsenal extend their lead at the top of the Premier League to nine points, Spurs come up with a performance at Anfield, Manchester United win again, and Chelsea get emotional about a huddle
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- [00:00]
Dan
This is the Guardian.
- [00:09]
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- [00:48]
Robin
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Limbs of the season at the Emirates as 16 year old max Dalman becomes the Premier League's youngest ever scorer to help Arsenal over the line against Everton before Man City drop more points at West Ham thanks to the face of Constantinos Maprapanos. Is this the night Arsenal won the title? Part 47 is it at the bottom? Spurs checks notes show promise under Igor Tudor Richarlison netting a last minute equalizer against Liverpool, proving the old adage that the fifth time's a charm. Chelsea lose after Paul Tierney infiltrates their pre match huddle. PJ Merle's response to Liam Rossini's complaints will be interesting. Man United cement third place with victory over Aston Villa as Bruno Fernandes closes in on a record amount of assists in a single season. We have a hotel boycott, an update from Texas, plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. So Max and Barry are breaking America as we speak, like a couple of RADA trained actors who have spent just a little too long in a soap opera. We expect them to return to the pod very soon, perhaps recast with new actors, but same characters. We'll wait and see. On the panel this morning, Jonathan Wilson live from a hotel in Liverpool.
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Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, morning, how you doing?
- [02:02]
Robin
All good, thank you. Yeah, we're very impressed with your very healthy choice of option at the breakfast buffet today.
- [02:08]
Jonathan Wilson
Well, you've got, you've got to look after yourself. When you get to my age, you know there's no, there's no half measures here. I had, I was in Leeds yesterday and I had a fry up in Leeds. They had, I was in a hotel in Leeds. They were advertising they'd won breakfast of a year. But I mean they hadn't won it since the early 60s. If they have won it ever because it was, it was the most old fashioned breakfast I've ever seen.
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Robin
They've won it at some point and I think that that's all right. It can't be false advertising then. Lucy Ward. I mean your, your Leeds through and through obviously. Good breakfast there.
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Lucy Ward
Yeah, I'm in Leeds and yeah, Fry up just about is about right for Leeds I think.
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Robin
Darbar Dell. Good morning. How are you this morning?
- [02:43]
Dan
Very well. Won no awards and had no breakfast so. Yeah, good start.
- [02:47]
Robin
Oh, good start.
- [02:48]
Lucy Ward
Okay.
- [02:49]
Robin
Running on empty. I don't know who's more high performance. We'll wait and see. Let's start at the Emirates then Arsenal to Everton nil. And I think we just got a start at the end, haven't we? This moment for Dalman as Everton were pushing for an equalizer. Jordan Pickford was up, Max Dalman taking the ball after it was half cleared. A header down a pitch, long dribble and we all knew what was happening here. I think that's what made this moment absolutely iconic in, in the Premier League. And Lucy, I'm going to come to you first. I know you know you speak a lot about the, these young players and he's been hyped a lot, hasn't he? But he's delivering consistently and I think it's very telling that Michael Arteta turned to him With Arsenal struggling to break this Everton team down.
- [03:35]
Lucy Ward
Yeah, I mean it's interesting Robin, because Mikael Arteta has not really been known as a playing the kids sort of manager. It actually takes a really brave manager to just put them in. And I think what happened was when he had to put one Area Miles Louis Skelly in last season or the season before because he had that many injuries and then he was like oh, pleasantly surprised by the performance and they ended up in the team now when they got players back when area didn't get in, gone out on loan. So I think that that's taught him a little bit about. Well actually if I see something on the training ground that is good then they replicate it simply because they don't really have that sort of anxiety around getting the three points. I mean he will recognize that Dalman that, that obviously it's the desperate to win the title and it gets sort of like a little bit nerve nervy at the end. But in terms of him, he's thinking about himself, he's thinking about you know, playing football, enjoying it. I was just saying before I was sat on the sofa with my mum watching it and I'm no Arsenal fan, you know, I don't really have that any sort of allegiance. However, when he took that, that touch out in a way we were both like gone and then sort of felt the joy and I was really glad that I don't hate Arsenal that I could share the joy of that last minute second goal because I think that it must be a shame if you're watching that thinking, oh God, they've won. Do you know what I mean? I've. So yeah. But in terms of a young player, you've just got to be a little bit careful because you know, that might be the best thing he ever does in his career. I hope not. I hope it's just the start, but you just never know with some players. But he seems to have his feet on the ground and I'm sure everybody's treating his parents well.
- [05:13]
Robin
Yes, absolutely. 16 years and 73 days old. I mean it's pretty incredible. And he came on, he also, I mean quite provide the assist for the first goal against Everton. But he, he put in a really good cross. Jordan Pickford made a bit of a mistake and then Yokerez had a tap in. I mean but just back to that goal, Dad. I mean to be in the stadium, to be an Arsenal fan witnessing that moment, it wasn't bundled in by D. We weren't quite sure who got the last touch. Just the fact that, you know, as I said, you could see what was happening and what was going to happen. I mean those are the moments, aren't they that you, you just save as a football fan and just the incredible scenes after that.
- [05:53]
Dan
Yeah. So I was watching the, the Chelsea Newcastle game but keeping an eye on what was going on in the other games and just watching on social media what was unfolding and basically my entire timeline was, was Max Dalman this, Max Dalman that. So at the end of the game, obviously watched the highlights and, and saw what would, what had happened and you know, it's as much. It's a great moment anyway because of his age, he'll be an Arsenal fan as well. But in the context of the game and in the context of the total race as well, had almost got. Got away from them. Like him coming on was the catalyst to them getting what is a, is a massive three points. Especially when you look at what went to go on to happen afterwards in, in the Man City game as well. It. It will become a, or it could become a really, really iconic Premier League moment. I saw some, someone, I can't remember who it was comparing it to Sergio Aguero, I don't think I'd. I'd go that far. But look, it's, it's a massive moment. Everton had gone there and almost Done the perfect job on. On Arsenal and had chances themselves as well. But he's only, he's only just 16 as well. It's not like he's about to turn 17. Like he is only just 16 years old and we all heard about him in the summer. Arsenal fans would have known about him for longer. But. But Lucy's right. Like this might be like the best thing that ever happens to him. It might not ever get better than this.
- [07:09]
Robin
But.
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Dan
But watching him, I think it probably will. I think this is just the beginning.
- [07:13]
Lucy Ward
Yeah.
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Robin
I enjoyed Johnny Lou's post on Blue sky saying the UK number one single when Max diamond was born was some streaming nonsense nobody cares about because it's long after people stopped giving a toss about the charts. That's young Max Downward is. Yeah, we always ask about that. And I was going to ask what were you guys doing at 16? But I did this with Lucy a couple of weeks ago and we did the. Did an FA cup game together and. And the answer wasn't. Wasn't what I wanted. Because you were already playing, weren't you? Two years into your career, weren't you already.
- [07:41]
Lucy Ward
Well, actually four years into that guy. I first played in a women's team when I was 12 and the next eldest was 21. So that's how women's football has changed and football has changed over the years. So yeah, I was, I was an experienced player by 16.
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Robin
Yeah. So where have you been, Max? I think that's. That's the question, isn't it? I mean, Jonathan is. As we mentioned, Everton did have their chances, didn't they? And it, it's kind of a bit. Maybe a bit outcome biasey, isn't it? But this feels very, very significant for Arsenal. Everton hit the post. They had that weird sort of scorpion block from Califiori. As Dan said, it nearly did a job on them.
- [08:16]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah. I mean it. I think it's probably the equivalent of that game it was much earlier in the season, but was that. It was late January last year. There's the, the. The afternoon when Liverpool went to Brentford and it was goalless after 90 minutes. And then Darwin Nunia scored twice in injury time and I was at Arsenal for that game they played that day. They played villa in the 5:30 kickoff and you could just feel a kickoff around the Emirates, this sense of. Of sort of everybody kind of. They've done that. Arsenal went to up and then they conceded twice to Villa. And so rather than. I think Arsenal would have pulled within two had they won and Liverpool been Held but then the gap six and Liverpool had a game in hand and that felt like the, the day that the title race was decided last season. And I think we, we might look back on Saturday and say that was equivalent this season. I mean a nine point gap isn't, I mean it's City have a game in hand. If we win that at 6, if City then beat Arsenal, month's time isn't the game of the air, then it's three. I don't think you could say Arsenal playing well enough at the minute that they will definitely win the other six games. I mean the last five games haven't really played particularly well. They've won three of them by a single goal, you know. So you say Everton had their chances and that could easily finish nil. Nil. The other game was the Laverkusen game where he didn't play particularly well. So I don't think Arsenal are playing fantastically but this season, having you not done this at previous three seasons, they are, they are managing to get the wins and City are not. And yeah, Guadiola seemed slightly baffled by that on Saturday night. So I, I, it, it, it felt like a decisive shift on Saturday night.
- [09:51]
Robin
It did and that's because yeah later on in the eight o' clock kickoff it finished West Ham United one. Manchester City won. So more drop point for Manchester City and you could see that actually, I mean this was interesting. I think Erling Han was watching as you, you alluded to it Jonathan. I mean might just put a dent in their, in their mood after it seemed like Erlingha was watching the end of the Arsenal game and then they had to go. So that, that's our puts paid to, you know, the, oh, we don't look at the table, we don't look at what other teams are doing. That's absolutely nonsense, isn't it? But let's, let's talk about this game. I mean it's been a kind of theme of the season, hasn't it? City, they take the lead. There was a big debate on, on tnt. I know your colleague Darren Fletcher Lucy was like Bernardo Silville definitely meant that little dink to the back post and immediately shot down by Ali McCoist and Joker saying no he didn't. And then yeah, a very weird sort of equalizer where a kind of rare error from Donna Rimmer. You still expect City to go again after that, but they just didn't. And that's kind of been a theme of the season.
- [10:54]
Lucy Ward
Bernardo Silva didn't mean to do that. Because you can see him look to try and clip it onto Haaland's head. You only need to see where his eyes were looking. And I think he's a little bit of a joker as well. Bernardo Silva. So he was sort of telling the younger ones that of course he meant it, but it looks like one of those games where they could have been there all night, man City, and they wouldn't have scored again because some of the blocks at West Ham were making, you know, because obviously they've got a lot. Lot to fight for, but they just. Just lack a little bit of creativity and urgency in the final third City that. The control games, but the dropping points against teams that. That will quite obviously defend deeper, protect and have good set pieces. Because Donna Rummer. That's so Donna Rummer. I saw a tweet from a. A City fan because quite a lot of City fans weren't happy with. With. With Donna Rummer in the first place, you know, but it says it's for all the Donna Roma haters. It's taken until March before you go see, I told you so. That tells you how good he's been up until this point. And I. And I've taken to account the European game in. In against Madrid in. In midweek, where. And it just shows. Absolutely perfect as a goalkeeper and then make a couple of mistakes in key games and all of a sudden it's like, Donna Roma, what's. What. What's happening. But they just. It's not. It's not the. It's not anything to do with the goalkeeper. This is. They haven't had those quick vertical passes up the pitch. That West Ham were organized. They fall City wide and they just became predictable.
- [12:19]
Robin
And. Yeah, Dan, I mean, we've seen this before, haven't we? It's been. It's been pretty bizarre. Watching City, we're so used to them. As I said before, in previous seasons, they'd have a setback like that, but you'd expect them to, you know, especially at. At West Ham, where they have an incredible record. So three, four, one.
- [12:36]
Dan
Yeah, I think Pep said as much after the game as well. West Ham have had one shot in that. In that game, I believe, and it's the. It's obviously turned into the critical moment in the game. That. That was the goal, I think, because of the way Arsenal play, which I don't personally have a problem with, and. And the way they're kind of looking like they might win the league at the moment. I think City's problems and inconsistencies have almost got lost because all the noise is. Is around Arsenal. Like this kind of result that they've had at the weekend has been commonplace pretty much all season, and certainly there was periods that were long periods last season where this kind of result was happening. I think everyone's just expected City to. To go on this winning run and really put this. This big pressure on Arsenal that really tests Arsenal's mental side. But the gap, there's quite a big distance between them at the moment. I know there's that. That game in hand and if. If Manchester City can win that game in hand and then manage to beat Arsenal as well, like, that really will put the frighteners on Arsenal. But Premier League in general, and particularly man, City, at this moment in time, no one can really be trusted to get that. That big result when they need to. And West Ham credit to them, look, they were so, so resolute. They. They stayed in the game for. For so long, everyone just assumed City were gonna. Were gonna score, but actually they're a really useful outfit at the moment. Before the game, if you'd have asked me to predict a score, I probably would have gone for a draw because they're showing signs of life under Nuno and I actually think they'll probably end up staying up in the end. He's a fantastic manager, if you look at what he's done at Forest, what he did at Wolves as well. Probably forget the Tottenham period, but everyone had West Ham dead and buried, so there's been signs of life there under Nuno. So difficult opponent. But as Pep said, that's a game they just win a few years ago, and at the moment and all through the season, they're not doing that when they need to.
- [14:21]
Robin
Yeah, I think we definitely should give West Ham a lot of credit, shouldn't we? And the work that Nuno has done, because they did look dead and buried, he shored up their defense. Just wonder, sort of tactically, or is it. Or is it something deeper than that? Jonathan, in terms of, for City, did Pep Guardiola get this wrong or. Or did it. Was it just missed chances? Semenya had quite a good one, didn't he? And Mark Gay spooned one over the bar late on.
- [14:46]
Jonathan Wilson
Well, they had 24 chances to one. I mean, you can't really say you got 24, 10 and you've got Erling Holland in your team and somehow you haven't won it. I mean, it just. It's one of those games. Doesn't make sense. But City have had a Few of those this season. The drop off in the second half for City and I know that the equalizers before half time on, on Saturday, but if, if games finished at half time, City would have 68 points. If they start at halftime, we'd have 42. This season as it is, they have 61. So is that a lack of fitness? Is that what. What's something. Something serious is happening there And I think that's why if it didn't having got to half time level, they didn't quite have that extra energy or that extra drive whatever to get that winner. And I thought it was really telling what Guardiola said afterwards. In previous seasons we won games like this and this season we're not. And I don't really get it. And I think that that is it. If you said to any manager before game, you'll have 24 chances, the opposition will have one, would you take it? In what circumstances would you not accept that? So I think it's. You'd say it's a one off but it keeps happening. And I think, I don't know if it's something to do with the change in City style this season. They've been weirdly inconsistent. They were so good at Newcastle in the Cup. I always thought the Real Madrid game. Did Guardiola underthink that? Is this the first example of Guardiola underthinking a game that he just sort of thought oh look, we're great. And he looked at that Real Madrid team without four or five key players and played an incredibly aggressive attacking midfield and then got absolutely turned over and has that affected confidence? I don't know. But they're just not the thing. They've gone from being this sort of absolute extraordinary, unbeatable team to just being a normal good team. You know the, the point you were making about the or Dan was making about the them not being able to put together winning runs. They have had a couple of those runs. They had an eight game run in November, December, they had six games in February and you something, oh yeah, this is it. But it's not that they haven't got that same control and therefore they're never quite as secure and therefore games like, like the West Ham game on Saturday happen.
- [16:51]
Robin
Any theories on this sort of second half slump?
- [16:55]
Dan
I just think there's not, there's not maybe that fear factor that that teams had of. Of Man City in, in bygone years right now. I think last season I know they were rebuilding post January, but I think there was a general malaise and I think that kind of took away something psychologically from the other, other opponents that they're not this infallible beast anymore. You can get them, you can. They can open up, they'll give you chances. And look, look, West Ham didn't have, didn't have any chances other than the goal. Goal. We scored as goal. They scored, as we've said a couple of times. But I think something got lost within Manchester City last season and then as this season's gone on as well, I think they referenced that Harland scored four in his last 18. Like he's not, he's not doing for him, isn't it? He's not necessarily getting loads of service. But again, has that, has that fear factor now now gone with him? Have teams learned how to, how to nullify him? West Ham certainly I would say nullified him the weekend. So I think there's kind of that, that mental edge with, with Man City that teams would. Have, would have feared them. I kind of feel like that's gone. I don't. But I don't think it hasn't answered the question because I don't think that's a second half specific thing. But that's a theory anyway.
- [17:59]
Lucy Ward
But it is. So. I mean it is, right? You're right, Dan, because it's about the, the opposition's attitude to. Rather than what shall we keep it down to one or two. It's now. Well, actually we could nick one if we can just manage this first half. If we can just grab opportunities when we can and then defend well. They just defend well and, and, and deny that space in behind. Then they become really predictable. Everything's in front of the opposition and then they've just got to find like a little, a little way in which against teams like West Ham, who. And obviously clinging onto a one all draw at that particular point. But yeah, I think that they're not inevitable anymore and that helps the opposition.
- [18:39]
Robin
And before we move on, we must have a word for Mavropanos who scored the header but also took one. I mean he's probably still picking the ball out of his face. That is an extraordinary picture that someone managed to capture when Haaland's rocket of a shot basically sort of became one with Mavropanos face literally disappeared into the ball. I mean, absolutely extraordinary.
- [19:02]
Lucy Ward
I mean, possibly it hurts. Yeah.
- [19:06]
Robin
You don't say.
- [19:08]
Lucy Ward
Yeah, that prop. I've had that. And that is. Your head feels about like 300 times as big and he looked like he was like, oh. I mean it's all. Are all my features still here but yeah, crazy. Not especially not in front of Harlan's shot. My word.
- [19:22]
Robin
Yeah. I mean yeah, no, I would be calling for an ambulance my mother and anyone else but yeah, fair play. Fair play to Constance Mavropanos. And yeah, I hope he's. Hope he's feeling okay today. That will do for part one. In part two we'll do Liverpool spurs and the race for top four. Welcome back to the Guardian Football Weekly. Liverpool won spurs one. So yes spurs stopping the rot. They still remain the only team in the Premier League without a win in 2026. But a precious point could have been more Igor Tudor challenged his team to cry or fight Jonathan. They chose the latter.
- [20:06]
Jonathan Wilson
They did.
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Robin
Or a bit of the former.
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Jonathan Wilson
Yeah I mean I don't know if Liverpool sort of thought when they went ahead that that was it that they'd won it but Liverpool were so sloppy, so lacking in urgency and you almost saw the confidence creeping back into Tottenham. Richarlison I thought had a really good game. He missed a couple of chances but kept going and eventually got his reward. I thought that midfield yes Sar and Archie Gray were both both really good but even Vicario you know he was at fault with Liverpool goal. It's a really good save he then makes 10 minutes later from Cody Gakpo so there was a sort of element of redemption there and look yeah they've equalized in the last minutes having lost six games in a row. I'm sure the delighted with the point but I do wonder if they've woken up this morning thinking actually we could have won that. You know that Liverpool were awful and that was a real opportunity but yeah when you've lost six in a row getting anything on the board particularly with Forest to come next Sunday which is obviously a huge game I'm sure they'll be they'll be happy enough.
- [21:05]
Robin
Jim asked us Spurs a late equalizer give a hint at some newly discovered resilience or is it more to do with Liverpool's inability to prevent goals going in at the end of games and mixing on blue sky. Is the dissatisfaction of many Liverpool fans with Arna slot valid or are we overreacting? Any thoughts on that Dan?
- [21:22]
Dan
Well they had a new manager at the start of the game didn't they Because Igor Tudor spotted a. Spotted another bold man and went up to him and and spoke to him like he was honest like so there was a temporary change of the guard for for Liverpool pre game so I
- [21:35]
Jonathan Wilson
can just say on that I I think this is being totally misinterpreted. That bloke is Alan Dixon who's Daniel Levy's brother in law. He's the team manager at Tottenham. There's no way he could. Doesn't know who he is.
- [21:44]
Dan
Look, I've got to admit I didn't know that. That just shows you the dangers of social media. I fell into a trap there. Seeing that and just thinking it was some random man and that Jude has gone up to him and thought he was schlot.
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Lucy Ward
How did he get the job there, Jonathan? No idea. How on earth did Wellington interview?
- [22:02]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, best qualified for the job. Great interview. Yeah. And just complete coincidence that he happens to be related to Daniel Levy.
- [22:08]
Dan
I thought this game was outrageous because the whole country is. Well not the whole country but a lot of the country's on like a little bit of a hate watch. Like spurs have been absolute appointment view doing here and then they put up a performance with some fight and some guy or they, they. They kind of mix and match their front front players every single week. But I think for the rest of the season that they've got to go with that. The front players that played in that game because they, they genuinely look dangerous and actually a bit like the way I spoke about Manchester City earlier. As good a team as Liverpool are and as good a team as they've been, they'll give you openings and they'll give you chances as well. So in a way away from home like nobody expecting spurs to do anything. I think I think it suited them. But Liverpool have got that in the locker this season as well as well, haven't they? Every time you think they might have got it right they trip up and, and put in a. Put in a really, really poor result. Tottenham kind of changed as well from playing playing out from the back and went a bit more direct and that is the way to hurt Liverpool. And as Jonathan said, Richarlison had had so, so many chances. But for the rest of the season now that, that's got to be a catalyst for spurs it's kind of. Has it given them a platform for. For next week against Forest in what's, what's a huge game? I guess it depends what happens in the. In the Champions League. If they get decimated again, obviously confidence will, will take a downturn. But I thought there was. Was signs of life there and that's probably given Tudor the job for the season as well there.
- [23:31]
Robin
Well for now at least I think yes as you mentioned the Forest game. I think if that. If they kind of revert to type on that. I'm not, I'm not certain. Although I think we were all pretty stunned that he was still there ahead of this one. But yes, certainly signs of life. And I mean in terms of Liverpool I guess. Lucy, it's kind of mirroring City a little bit, isn't it? A lot of changes in the summer, new players to bed in. But they just look so shaky defensively and the likes of sort of Van Dyke who was sort of this immovable object isn't so anymore.
- [24:02]
Lucy Ward
It was interesting on commentary. Jamie Carragher said that they were sleepwalking which is what. What Jonathan said. Then it looked like they just thought oh just get a goal and we'll, we'll win or we'll score two. To me it just looks like they are lacking in intensity in, in everything that they do. And I was sort of reading on social media and somebody talking about that the training is not high enough level. How they know that I have no idea. But obviously Klopp was just over the top with training and I think they're sort of suggesting that the training is. Is probably not as high as that but not as high as it should be. It's a good squad. They're just not playing very well. I have to say that, that Liverpool's performance this, this season deserves a little and Salah's in particular deserves a bit of context and explanations. Right. You cannot underestimate the loss of Jota and I and I know we're in March but I look at Salah and he looks like a person to me that's just gone. What am I doing? I've, you know, I've just lost someone. I can't get my head around how I've lost someone. He's not here anymore. I'm still going in the same place, earn all the money I've won everything. What am I doing? And, and, and that is like a drop of that few percent as obviously as well as obviously he's getting a little bit older. Salah has just affected him now. I think that Kelleher was talking about it. He was interviewed, wasn't he? I don't know whether it was last week and he was basically saying I don't know how they're all functioning going into the training ground. It's bad enough me here where I'm in a different place and different environment but I really can't, you cannot underestimate while losing someone the same age as you in that environment where they're so close and I think it's affected different players particularly Salah in a, in a, in a really obviously understandably strong way.
- [25:47]
Robin
No, you're absolutely right. And you can't say oh it's March, you know, it's time to stop grieving. It doesn't work like that, does it? And I think we do forget that these players, they don't just see each other on a Saturday or a Sunday do they see each other every single day and probably over the close season if they're close friends, they're friends with their family. I'm sure they're friends with his partner, you know, know his kids. So I think yeah, no you're absolutely right. It's so far reaching and we should say that Liverpool still very much in the mix for, for the top five or top four. They're still fifth and 49 points. The, the goal that they scored was another Dominic Szabozlai free kick and he scored four now direct from free kicks this season if he gets one more league called Perez and David Beckham's record for five in a single season, this one wasn't his best and I think most people would say that Beccario should have done better. I'm just a bit disappointed Jonathan McTuda didn't substitute him after this and brought Kingski on because I think that would have been magnificent.
- [26:45]
Jonathan Wilson
I mean where do you think she had Brandon Austin on the bench as well. So give him a go. It showed, showed how bad spurs problems are with injuries that they had seven players on the bench of whom I'll be honest, I only heard of four of them. There's three 19 year olds he'd never played before. Two goalkeepers plus Kolamwani and Xavi Simmons.
- [27:04]
Robin
That's definitely needs to be flagged, doesn't it? The squad that spurs have, they're absolutely down to the bare bones, aren't they? So yeah really up against it. So really not a bad, not a bad result at all. And we should talk about another teenager Dan Rio Ngamoa who again a bit like Dalwin just looks well just full of confidence and actually was he was given his first start in the Premier League and possibly looked the liveliest from a Liverpool perspective.
- [27:33]
Dan
Yeah, I think Liverpool fans from, from what I've, I've read and seen wanted to see, wanted to see more, more of this player. He obviously at the start of the season had some, had some important moments, won a massive game at Newcastle I think, I think it was late on and you thought maybe you'd start to see a little bit more from him. But he almost got lost a little because Liverpool were mixing it up trying to. Trying to find the best combination they had Isak and Eka. They were trying to basically fit everyone in at the start of the season. Now things have settled and they're obviously going into competitions at the moment in terms of the Champions League games and the Premier League games being quite tight. If they can get themselves back into the time midweek he'll play more because they'll have more games. There will be that element of rotation and he looks ready. He's a very technically gifted player. I think maybe the end product might be something that needs working on. I've heard that alluded to but you know just to kind of replaces Diaz a little bit. That just direct silky, silky runner. They've maybe missed that. He's obviously departed in, in the summer as well. They've had that complete change of the front three. I think he maybe offers something in that Liverpool forward line that not anyone else there the more senior players have got. So if they can stay in the Champions League I think you will see
- [28:46]
Robin
more of him to Old Trafford then Manchester United 3 Aston Villa 1. So Manchester United won all five home games in the Premier League under Michael Carrick. The clamor for him to get the job permanently continues to be fair.
- [29:00]
Lucy Ward
I mean how he's changed it around and, and he's changed it around by doing sort of common sense things which you know sort of. Anybody with any sort of ounce of football knowledge will realize that what man was doing wasn't working. However, it's easiest sit on the sideline doing it. When you. When he stood on the touchline like Carrick is. I just think that it just shows you that the combination of things behind the scenes. Obviously he's quite a gentle bloke who's quite positive with the group putting round pegs in round holes. Amazingly works very well in, in football And I go back to spurs being the same. He sort of played like a four four two and and you know worked hard, didn't play back three try and play out for the back. Well who'd have thought it that that would would make it difficult for a team like live. Depends on where Man United want to go now. Because the thing is if he finishes with a flourish like he is and they get in the Champions League which it looks like they are doing and it shows the head to head battles with the likes of Villa helped then if they choose someone else he's got to come in and hit the ground running. And then you're back to the, you know, Amarim coming in. They're just going to choose. Well, like recruitment is the be all and end all of football.
- [30:14]
Robin
Ruben Amarim's decisions look more and more ludicrous by the week. Jonathan. I mean, Bruno Fernandes is a quality player. As we mentioned, he's now on 16 assists for the season set to possibly break the record. Kevin de Bruyne is 20 for a Premier League season. Great assist. Pecunia's goal. It was a great finish. Sesko firing, you know, Casemiro as well. They've been calls for him to stay now after he scored again, again. Are we falling into that trap? I can. I've seen this tale before. All looking very good. Do you feel like he might have a bit more substance than the. Or longevity, let's say from the Ologunner Solskjaer era, which actually was quite good for a while. I think people forget that.
- [30:55]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, I think Solskjaer was it 14 wins and three draws from the first 18 games. So, yeah, that's actually pretty similar to what Carrick's. I mean there was obviously within that the defeat was a home defeat to PSG and then they went to Paris and won and it went through and away goals and Carrick just hasn't had that. But you know, Carrick's managing a team who aren't playing a lot of football. They're going to be fresher than every team they play this season and I think you've got to take that into account. It's really hard to judge whether he's. He's any good or not. And you. I think the only way to. You can't even really assess it for matches or results. You've got to sort of have a feel for what's happening on the training ground. Have a feel for. Are players just happy because suddenly they're allowed to play in the positions where they're at their best and they haven't got this sort of bloke squeezing them into this straightjack if it doesn't suit them. Even Bruno Fernandes playing deep in midfield. I could sort of understand it because of the recruitment in the summer, bringing in the three fours, which didn't really make much sense. And the only way to sort of accommodate them in that system was to bring Bruno deeper. But the thing I just did not understand was trying to play Amogello at wing back because I saw a lot of ammo Jalo at Sunderland. He's a really technically good footballer. He's much stronger than he looks like he's going to be because he's tiny. But if you ask him to defend the back post when the ball's on the other, other flank and teams are knocking it to the back post. A four foot two bloke cannot defend against a six foot bloke and that's what you're asking him to do. And again and again United got done by teams and lifted it to the back post. So that just seemed totally baffling to me and I sort of feel quite defensive towards Ahmad because he was so good for Sunland. But yeah, he's now playing well playing as a forward, not as a wing back. So yeah, I, I don't know what I mean was doing and that, that's the, the, I, I guess the recruitment didn't deliver him what he needed, which was a, you know, holding player and somebody who could play right wing back. He didn't get that and therefore it was more square pegs and round holes. But the sense of release, I mean, I think if the season had started when Carrick took over, United will be top of the league. I think they've taken 22 points in Arsenal, 21 in that time. And you sort of think if Ammon had picked up two more wins, if two of their defeats have been wins, are United in the title picture, then they probably are because Arsenal aren't playing that well. So they've kind of blown a title opportunity by just pissing away the first half of the season.
- [33:28]
Robin
Yeah, on Carrick, I mean he, he has managed, you know, he managed Middlesbrough and he did pretty well there, didn't he? I know it kind of went sour at the end and I know he obviously has a huge amount of respect for Alex Ferguson and he, he talks about him a lot but he's not kind of doesn't give them this sort of deference that. And so, I don't know, soul shy. Kind of came across a bit of a sycophant, didn't he? And it was a bit of a joke how I've got to ask Sir Alex first and wouldn't park in his parking place. Exactly. Yeah. She's kind of mad, isn't it? So I was like, no, I'm not really the manager, it's still him. So I just feel like Carrick has got a little bit more distance. Would that be fair to say, Lucy? Like, it's not, it's not quite so kind of like a joke that it's still him sort of, he's a sort of Puppet.
- [34:14]
Lucy Ward
Yeah. I think that Carrick is a stuff. You know, he's had his own career, hasn't he? He's not just been brought in from absolutely nowhere and I know Solskjaer did as well and he's. And he obviously is a. Is a good coach, but I just think that sort of standalone Middlesbrough experience will have taught him a lot, because, as usual, yeah, for any job, it mostly sort of ends sour, doesn't it? And, you know, the Middlesworth fans weren't happy with the football that he was playing or his reaction to how they played at certain points. But it just seems to have that sort of measured. You need to be quite measured and you need to, you know, if you are going to blow your top. The people that you know don't need to. You don't need to see that emotion. And you also need to be authentic. You know, there's a couple of others managers in the. Or at least one manager in the top five or six who could learn from, like, being authentic and being yourself and, you know, you're not having to say stuff to be performative. But I think he's got. He has that. And the most important thing is that the players buy into it. That is key because if you don't get the players to buy into it, and they obviously weren't buying into what Amram did. So I think he's put himself in
- [35:18]
Robin
a really good position from the Villa perspective. Dan, that was a really tough run, hasn't it? Three wins in 12 now in the Premier League. Somehow you're still fourth, though, which is a positive. Obviously, a lot's been made of the midfield and we're not, you know, underestimating the midfield that Villa are currently having to field and are missing. The absences are big. Is it as simple as that, do you feel?
- [35:39]
Dan
I mean, how we are still fourth. I have absolutely no doubt.
- [35:42]
Lucy Ward
You did so well, Dan. You did so well in that phase, you know.
- [35:47]
Dan
Yeah, I think that may be. And I'm probably guilty of this as well. It maybe created a bit of a. An unrealistic expectation of where this Villa squad is at. And look, Unai Emery is a genius and he's improved every single player at that football club. But we're coming up short right now and we don't have the strength and depth and the midfield's been absolutely decimated. Obviously, John McGinn's coming back into things now, which. Which is huge for us, and I'd have left him on at 50, to be honest. The expense of bringing Leon bailey on at 100% because a 50% John McGinn at the moment is, is better than 100% Leon Bailey. But Tillemans and Kamara in particular, like Kamara makes everyone around, around him better. Anana played next to Kamara when Tillemans was injured earlier on in the season and it looked like a good partnership. But you take Kamara away and none of the midfielders really look like they're, that they're settled or can control the midfield. So the midfield's been decimated. The attack at the moment I think is probably the worst functioning attack in the league. Like Ollie Watkins has just completely fallen off a cliff. Nothing stuck to him yesterday I thought he was probably his worst game he's ever had in, in an Aston Villa shirt. So I feel sorry for Rodgers in there at the moment because everything around him feels broken. I can't remember the last time he had a shot. He was scoring 30 yard screamers every single week. It felt like at the back end of 20, 25. Now as I say, I can't remember when he's had a shot. Emery's tried to be more resolute and that's actually made the defense worse. We're, we're conceding goals left, right and center now, so we've just completely gone away from everything that made us good for a variety of reasons. And for the last few weeks, people who talk about Villa a lot, and me included, will have been saying, it's okay, we're still third, it's okay, we're still fourth. There's only so long you can keep saying that, that this run of form now is, is worrying. And the squad, like it did at the start of the season, looks very, very stale. Villa have made a lot of recruitment errors at a time when you can't afford to make recruitment errors because of the, the constraints that they're working under with psr. The fact that Harvey Elliott just sits on the bench when he is fit week after week, not coming on because we don't want to pay the money to, to buy him permanently. Like to me, he's exactly what this attack needs, some fresh impetus, some. Someone young, someone who would have been full of confidence coming off the back of the under 21 Euros in, in the summer. Like the fact that I'm still watching players like Buendia and Leon Bailey play and we've got Harvey Elliott just sat there. It absolutely blows my mind. So in conclusion, loads wrong with Villa at the moment, but you'll win the
- [38:19]
Robin
Europa League, won't you?
- [38:20]
Dan
I don't know. I don't think we will. I honestly, I still don't think that it. Aston Villa Robin. So that's the. That's probably the bigger thing.
- [38:30]
Robin
What Trump's.
- [38:30]
Lucy Ward
What?
- [38:31]
Robin
I mean, the Harvey Elliott situation, though, Jonathan, is. That is mad, isn't it? It's a really sad indictment of modern football, actually, isn't it?
- [38:39]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, it is. And I mean, I don't. I mean, maybe Dan can explain why they're so reluctant to spend the money on him. Because it seems to me, if he's a good young player, you prepared to do that deal for last summer. What have they seen in him that makes them think this is definitely the wrong player for us to buy full time? Why are they so unimpressed by him?
- [39:00]
Dan
In one of his first games, in the midst of the run where we couldn't score a goal to save our lives, he came on against Sunderland, we played against 10 men and we got our first goal of the season, but really struggled. Sunderland should have won that game. Emery said that he was passing the ball and moving the ball too quickly. I would suggest that's probably what Villa need right now. It goes against the grain of what we're doing, but to me that's the kind of thing that. That Villa are absolutely missing. And from that moment, Emery just didn't fancy him. The structure of the loan deal was very, very strange and Monchi left the club quite quickly after that deal. The last couple of transfer windows have been awful from. From Villa. There's been very few big pieces of business that have. That have gone well. It's actually been the players that are low maintenance, that were bought in for low fees that have turned out to be the ones that have been Villa's best buys in the. In the summer window. You. Gasson's playing for, playing for Crystal palace now after six months and spending £30 million on him. So we've made loads of, loads of mistakes. But quite simply, Unai Emery does not want to buy Harvey Elliott permanently and the club is run by Unai Emery, rightly or wrongly, and so they won't do it.
- [40:05]
Robin
It's just simple as I just doesn't fancy him. And so, yeah, it's just. It's not a good situation for anyone, is it? Right moment of the weekend, everyone. Chelsea nil, Newcastle one. We'll get to the football in a second. But the huddle. Oh, the huddle. This was incredible. So, yeah, just before the game, Chelsea have now started to huddle around the center circle and Paul Tierney got trapped or he wants to get involved. I'm not sure exactly what happened. Brad on Instagram said, should Chelsea try huddling around someone who knows how to organize a defense? Which I think is lovely. One of the strangest moments of the season. The eye contact between Paul Tierney and Cole Palmer is superb. Just sort of like in a situation that neither wants to be in. And then Liam Racini afterwards saying, I'm going to make it really clear I want to protect my players. I'm respectful to the game. My players made the decision that they wanted to be around the ball, to respect the ball and show unity and leadership. Lucy, what the hell is he talking about?
- [41:08]
Lucy Ward
Just absolutely unnecessary. Performative of rubbish. Honestly, it's like he. Everybody's talking about that. No one's talking about the game, no one's talking about. Which probably is one of the reasons why he talked about after. But I just think some of the results that he's had have been absolutely brilliant, some of the way. The way he's got them playing and. And at times have been brilliant. But everybody just talks about everything else. So you've got to stay under the radar. If that was me and I would been given that job where everybody probably thought that I shouldn't have had that job for whatever reason, it's probably just best to just. Just stay calm and. But I don't know whether he feels like he has to sort of project this different sort of Persona. I'm not sure, but I feel a little bit for him, to be honest. But then he. He sort of comes out with respecting the ball. And I'm not. I'm not joking. It's. It's a free ball system, so there's. There's loads of balls everywhere. Switch ball. Are you respecting. Because you might not necessarily use that ball to, To. To play the whole game. That might be the one that sits on the sideline or somebody in the crowd next, you know, Honestly, does that
- [42:13]
Jonathan Wilson
logically mean they were respecting Paul Tierney by standing around him? It didn't feel like that, I have to say.
- [42:18]
Robin
It did feel like they're about to break into some sort of musical number, didn't it? Yeah, that was very bizarre. And yeah, I think he said they're going to write to pgmol. I think that's going straight in the shredder, that, that letter. And then I would love for, in every Chelsea game that the referees just come together and say, ryan, let's all do it. Let's all have a go in the middle of the huddle. In the next games.
- [42:39]
Dan
I, I hate it. It's the worst thing I've ever seen in football.
- [42:44]
Robin
It really wound up Villa fans, didn't they? By doing.
- [42:47]
Dan
It's wound me up. I hope, as long as they do that huddle, I hope they lose every game of football that they ever play from the first team down to like the under tens. I hope Chelsea lose every single game of football whilst that huddle is, is in existence. Because he's just weird and doing it in like the center circle as if it's some form of like marginal gain. I honestly, it. Sometimes football just eats itself up. And that is one of the moments where I just think, what is football like? Why am, why am I watching this? Because it's not clever. It's just self indulgent rubbish. And Racine, there's no way the players have come up with that either. Cole Palmer in the dressing room saying, you know, you know what we should do, lads? We should do a huddle in the centre.
- [43:27]
Lucy Ward
They looked so awkward, didn't they?
- [43:28]
Dan
And at halftime, there's no way they've come up with that. That's come from. Might not have come from Messing himself, but that has come from within the Chelsea coaching staff. Honestly, it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in football.
- [43:39]
Jonathan Wilson
But in the days when we used to do the podcast in the studio, we would always do a huddle around a microphone. I mean that was just standard practice. It was.
- [43:45]
Robin
And did you feel that helped?
- [43:47]
Jonathan Wilson
No, I felt, I felt disconcerted by it. But you know, you just go along with what the senior players are telling you to do.
- [43:53]
Robin
What Bluco say? Yeah, absolutely. Just before we move on, we should mention the actual game. So was a defeat for Chelsea and the defending for the, the winning goal. What turned out to be Jonathan was laughably bad, wasn't it? Just sliced through and Gordon with a tap in.
- [44:07]
Jonathan Wilson
Oh, dreadful. And they've won one of the last five in the Premier League. I mean, I know we're talking about United getting up to third and how well they're playing, but Villa and Chelsea are making it easy for them. And I know the possibility has opened up that the Premier League could have seven teams in the Champions League next season. Because if Villa win the Europa League and don't finish top five, and if, if Liverpool or I guess Tottenham, we should say, but Liverpool more realistically win the Champions League and don't finish your top top five, then there'd be five plus the Champions League winners, plus Europa League winners. That's that's nonsensical that you could have seven teams in the Champions League. We've got to stop that.
- [44:50]
Robin
Yeah. I mean, it's already kind of ridiculous, isn't it, in terms of European football and English teams, But, yeah, that's a conversation for another day that part two and part three will do. Brighton's win at Sunderland and the three goalless draws. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Palace nil leads nil. The biggest talking points here, Lucy. A missed penalty from Dominic Calvin Lewin. Another one of those penalties that have given away. When you think, what on earth are you doing with your hand, Will Hughes. Yeah, what's going on there? Why does this happen so often?
- [45:27]
Lucy Ward
I don't know whether he panicked in the middle, but, I mean, he's not the tallest, is it? So maybe he thought nobody would notice, but yeah. And Calvert Lewin, it's either it scores them or misses the target. He has missed the target before, but that was key, that moment. But I was just laughing this morning and watching Canvo celebrate the red card, the second yellow for Goodmanson and I've watched him quite a lot. I've done palace quite a lot in the. In the. In Europe and he's. And he's got a right Rick in canvas. He needs to be celebrating nothing. He keeps making mistakes. Only a young player and he keeps making mistakes. And it's like, just concentrate on your own game, mate. Because what then happened was obviously it's have the mickey taken out of him. But I don't think they had a goal. The goal disallowed in the palace and then there's been this start that they didn't have a shot on targets since the red card. And I was like, well, they obviously did, but that doesn't count. But. So they did have something. But Talismos rue the fact that they didn't get the win there, but they're quite comfortable. This is quite a negative environment, I think around Sellers park at the. At the moment that, that I think the. The sooner Glasner they both separate. The. The. The better for. For everyone, I think. And it sort of settled down a little bit. But I think at home, I think it's probably. I did the Zrinsky away game, which was an experience in Bosnia and it was pretty awful the. The atmosphere between the manager and the fans at that. At that stage. But it's sort of settled. They got some points on the board. But another thing out of that was the. The second yellow card for Goodmanson, which shows that there is a higher threshold for second yellow cards because the referee thought oh, oh, I've already given him. But you know it was, it was weak. But I think that shows, shows everybody what that I felt a little bit for the referee actually because he must have thought oh, I can't go back on this now. I've. I've have pulled the yellow card out
- [47:21]
Robin
first of all on Canva. I mean I've seen goals celebrated with less vigor than that. It was, it was pretty extraordinary. But yes, Thomas Brammell we had a lot of messages saying just how bad he was in this game and yes we do feel for him. He clearly didn't realize that he'd already been booked and then he also perhaps should have given Brennan Johnson a second yellow too. Possibly the better vibes with with Leeds but clearly Daniel Farker was. Was pretty disappointed with yeah with the refereeing in this game and but they remain above the relegation zone. 15, three points above it. Forest nil. Fulham nil. And yeah, Forest now just really struggling to score goals. Jonathan, it's. They. They hit the bar in this game. They mentioned on match of the Day that the last time that a striker for Forest scored was on the opening day of the season.
- [48:12]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, I mean you bring in Sean Dyche and the after effects can still be felt. I mean I think they have picked up under Pereira but. But yeah, that clearly is. Is the. The issue they got. I haven't actually seen them live for quite a while so I'm seeing them next Sunday at Spurs. So I'm looking forward to. To that but see if spurs can carry on as well. But it does feel. I mean maybe, maybe I'm discounting leads slightly in that but it does feel one from three to go down. Maybe, maybe it is one from four still.
- [48:42]
Robin
And Dan, I mean they were a bit unlucky with Andoi not getting a penalty after being a sort of inch off sides. Vito Pereira saying he can't celebrate goals anymore.
- [48:50]
Dan
Yeah, I thought it was a decentish performance. They did create chances and they are just probably missing a Chris Wood to get on the. Get on the end of things. Obviously last season he scored so many goals and he's been a huge miss with the amount of football he's missed through injury. When I tweeted that Villa had the worst functioning attack in the. In the Premier League at the moment last night, a lot of Forest fans replied saying no, it's, it does. So there's obviously a huge problem.
- [49:17]
Jonathan Wilson
Also Dan Sunderland have scored one goal from open play in the last eight games. So I think they've got a pretty, pretty good shout as well.
- [49:24]
Dan
I'm just, maybe to me, I'm going off the hour test where I feel like other teams are creating chances and Villa just. Everything breaks down as soon as it. As soon as it gets the attack. But look, I probably haven't watched loads of Forest and Sunderland recently, so is probably a. Probably a fair shout. I think Forest home games are critical right now. Like they've got to. Got to win their home games and you know, when they're coming away with a nil nil drawing in the game, they probably should have won like that. That feels quite big in this relegation battle now if, if spurs can pull it together and beat them next week, they suddenly feel like the ones that are in the biggest danger because I do think Leeds will do enough at Elland Row to stay up. So I think Forest's home form right now is, is absolutely paramount.
- [50:06]
Robin
It's really exciting at the bottom of the table if you don't have a dog in the fight, of course. So yeah. West Ham in 18th, 29 points. Nottingham Forest just above them on 29. Tottenham in 16th on 13. Leeds United just above them on 32. Burnley nil. Bournemouth nil. Again, not a classic. So Bournemouth unbeaten in 10, but they keep up their record of failing to beat a promoted side this season. But they do have an Oscar winner amongst their ownership. So Michael B. Jordan took home the gong for best actor for his role in Sinners Overnight. Bournemouth are really frustrating, Lucy, aren't they? Because I think they're really close to actually being, you know, challenging for Europe.
- [50:44]
Lucy Ward
Yeah. It's funny because I looked at the. The to watch the highlights of this obviously, as I do if I don't see any. The highlights were 13 minutes long and I just chose not to watch the highlights that were 30 minutes long of Burnley nil. Bournemouth nil. But yeah, I do like Bournemouth. But Bournemouth or Aller is a. Is such a good manager, I think that I don't think he enjoys having his best players. So you can't build anything. And obviously he's now a manager where he thinks, hang on a minute, I can make something from of somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if he went somewhere else where they allowed him to build and not sort of pull the rug under his feet. And you know, you understand why Bournemouth do sell players. But if you've got a money, if you've got a manager as good as Irala, then I think that you've got to support him and that's obviously how he looks at things. But yeah, it's interesting that they have so many draws. I did their game against Sunderland the other week and I think that was the last time. Jonathan. That Sunderland scored an open play goal. I just think it's just so difficult for him to get any sort of momentum going because if they did and did well, I mean the performance against Newcastle last season away at Newcastle Bournemouth was the best performance I've seen in a long time of an away team. And then this season they have to go again and try and build again. So it must be frustrating.
- [52:05]
Robin
Yeah, it's out of contract at the end of the season like Marco Silva and Oliver Glassner. So yeah, it could be really interesting summer actually in terms of managers. Sunderland nil. Brighton one. A third straight home defeat after unbeaten start at the Stadium of Light for Sunderland. Chris Rigg had a goal ruled out for offside. And then Minter scored one of the most weird, the weirdest goal you'll ever see. If you asked him to do it again, he wouldn't be able to. Habib Diar was down and he sort of stumbled and almost squirted off his foot to deceive everyone from a tight angle. Jonathan, is it a bit of complacencies perhaps creeping in after hitting 40 points?
- [52:39]
Jonathan Wilson
No, they're just rubbish.
- [52:41]
Robin
They can't be. They were so good.
- [52:44]
Jonathan Wilson
The fixtures fell in exactly the right order for Sunland. They got a lot of fairly straightforward home games at the start and I included in that villa before they had the good, good patch and they got points on the board. It was a bit of confidence and they held things together. Then they've got a load of injuries at the minute. They're really struggling for creativity. Bertrand Trail has been a much bigger loss than I expected. They. They've got two left backs injured at the minute. So Trey Hume's having to play on the left. They sold Mazaraku in in general let him go in January and so yeah, he was playing on the wrong side which means hatred is playing at right back and he's doing all right. But I just. I rather he was in. In midfield and yeah they. They just have absolutely zero spark. I think a lot of the confidence is gone. I think for some players have played a bit too much or a bit. A bit weary and sort of it's a regression to the mean that I think was. Was always. Was always likely. It's just that win at Leeds where they were pretty fortunate to be honest that that is it's, it's a good thing they've got that because otherwise I think they might be in, in bother
- [53:45]
Robin
Tonight at the Premier League. Brentford against Wolves. So quite a big game for Brentford in terms of their push for Europe. Chelsea women won the League cup final, retaining their trophy, beating Manchester United by two goals to nil at Ashton Gate. Lauren James got player of the match. She was excellent. Scored the first goal after a bit of a gift from Manchester United and then Aggie Beaver Jones wrapped it up. And more on that on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly, which will be out tomorrow. Max did joke that we weren't going to mention the Europa League and conference league last 16. So we'll just give it a little bit of a mention. Lucy, you were Forest nil. Michelin won. Did you have a nice time as Max would always ask?
- [54:23]
Lucy Ward
Yes. And, and it's quite a nervy place to sit at ground which sort of feeds into the, the, the, the, the reaction around, you know, the, the draw yesterday against Fulham. But yeah, it's, they don't create many chances and the ones that they do, they sort of fluff because they don't have the Chris Wood who's whose conversion rate last season was absolutely incredible, which obviously helped than, than score the goals that got the points that took them far away from where they are now. But if I could have put a bet on halfway through that commentary of the second half when it was pouring down with rain and Forest weren't scoring that Michelin would score, I would have done because it was, it was one of those going. You just knew what was going to happen. Everybody could sense that Forest are not going to put the ball in the back of the net. Mitchell in the score. And that's exactly what, what, what happens. It's going to be tough for Forest but again it's getting in the way of the Premier League survival, isn't it? When who would have thought you would ever say the Europa League but that the traveling this week may, you know, affect them at the, at the weekend.
- [55:23]
Robin
Yeah, it's pretty mad. We now have teams that are battling relegation and are in Europe as well. That might become more of a regular occurrence actually. Ollie Watkins winning a goal in Lille, nil Villa one. But will Villa won't win the Europa League as we've just been told by Dan. Neil. Neil with Crystal palace in the Conference League with Aek Lanaka as well. Let's go to any other business then. Wilson, you mentioned you're in a hotel but there is a certain hotel chain that you will not frequent. And do tell us, do tell us why.
- [55:54]
Jonathan Wilson
Right, so the only reason I'm in a hotel is because I was a very late switch from the United Villa game to Liverpool spurs for reasons I don't need to go into. I was in Yorkshire on Saturday, thought I'd stay up and do a Northern game which the guardian accommodated. But then because we shifted so late to Liverpool Spurs I think it was the right decision. I think spurs are, you know, were the biggest story. The trains were fully booked going back on Sunday night. So that's yeah, looking around for a hotel in Liverpool. Obviously I have no say in this as a travel department, does it? I came here in February 2004. I'd flown in from Stuttgart where I'd been doing the Champions League game and there was snow and I was late Liverpool playing Levski in the UEFA cup. And so I had to go straight to Anfield from, from the, from the airport and got to the hotel probably about half minute midnight and they'd sold my room and they put me in a taxi and sent me with a bottle of, I would say insultingly bad red wine. And they sent me to St Helens to a disgraceful hotel in St Helens. And I looked up the rack rate of the rooms, it was 140 quid less than the one I was meant to be in Liverpool. And so I said to Thistle Hotels, well I think the very least you can do for the extra time it's taken me to have to get a cab to St Helens's this dreadful hotel you put me in is you could give me the 140 quid and they refused. So I've been boycotting Thistle Hotels ever since and I've written over the first five years afterwards. I wrote to Thistle Hotels on the anniversary to explain the ongoing reasons for my boycott and not a peep out of them.
- [57:26]
Robin
Do you have an insultingly poor bottle of red wine every anniversary just to have a, have a memory of it?
- [57:33]
Jonathan Wilson
I'm a very, I'm quite an ascetic man generally. But wine is where I let myself go. I like good wine, wine, I'm very much a quality over quantity. So no, I, I will not drink bad wine.
- [57:43]
Dan
I worked for a Thistle Hotel in my university days.
- [57:46]
Jonathan Wilson
I, I mean no, no offense but that doesn't surprise me.
- [57:48]
Dan
I knew you were gonna say it probably. It was probably around the same time.
- [57:54]
Robin
Do you remember handing a disgruntled journalist a bottle of wine?
- [57:57]
Dan
I did get told that I was useless by Ozzy Osbourne when I worked for that, that hotel privilege. Similar, similar vibe.
- [58:05]
Robin
A lot of people would pay to have that from Aussie Osborne especially.
- [58:08]
Dan
Yeah, it was quite a satisfying.
- [58:09]
Robin
Yeah, that's wonderful. Right, before we go, an update from Max and Barry in Texas. Max, Barry and producer Joel having a great time. It looks like the live show will probably have happened by the time you're hearing this, but rest assured, they're working tirelessly on serious football journalism. We've had photos and videos of them on a guided duck tour, on a boat and at an Alardis Morissette concert. It singing along to ironic. For those with nervous disposition, please turn off now. Yeah, I wonder if Baz has his cowboy hat yet. Check out our Instagram page to see more behind the scenes on the Football Weekly tour. And they'll be hosting a panel asking serious non duck questions. They might slip a couple in there about the USA's suitability to host the tournament. They'll be back on Thursday's pod and I'll be back with you on Wednesday. Thank you very much, Jonathan.
- [59:12]
Lucy Ward
Cheers.
- [59:12]
Jonathan Wilson
Thank you.
- [59:13]
Robin
Thank you, Dan.
- [59:14]
Dan
Thank you very much.
- [59:15]
Robin
And thank you, Lucy.
- [59:16]
Lucy Ward
Thanks, Rob.
- [59:17]
Robin
Football Weekly is produced by Tayo Popola and Jesse Howard, and our executive producer is Daniel Stevens.
- [59:29]
Dan
This is the Guardian.