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Football Weekly
Arsenal run riot at Spurs but Manchester City keep pace – Football Weekly podcast
00:54:15
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Jonathan Wilson and John Brewin to discuss all of the weekend’s Premier League action
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- [00:00]
Max Rushden
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
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- [00:41]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. And when the bottle jobs come up against Dr. Tottenham, well, there was only going to be one winner. Arsenal were absolutely brilliant in the North London derby. Another two for Eza, two for Victor Jocherez, who was superb up front, having dropped points at Brentford and Wolves. They needed this. And while spurs with all their injuries are a disparate morass of nothing, relegation a distinct possibility. Man City kept the pressure on with a hard fought 21 win over Newcastle. Nico O'Reilly, the Star Elsewhere late goals all over the place. Burnley getting a point at Chelsea as someone in blue missed their marking assignment. Liam Rossinha's words, not mine. Liverpool win very late at the City Ground. Palace give. Please just sack me now. Oliver Glasimer a last minute winner while Tammy Abraham rescues it at the end for Villa. West Ham draw with Bournemouth and remain in the bottom three. There's a big win for Fabian Herzler as James Milner breaks the appearance record. And Fulham win at Sunderland. There's more grim online racist ab. Discuss more twists in the title race in Scotland. Your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, John Bruin. Hello.
- [01:41]
John Brewin
Hello, Max and welcome.
- [01:43]
Max Rushden
Jonathan Wilson.
- [01:43]
Jonathan Wilson
Morning. How you doing?
- [01:45]
Max Rushden
Good, I'm good, thank you. Thanks for asking. Good morning. Barry Glendenning.
- [01:47]
Barry Glendenning
Hi, Max.
- [01:49]
Max Rushden
Tony says worst Tudor bounce since Anne Boleyn's head hit the basket. Spurs 1, Arsenal 4. Arsenal's biggest win at spurs since 1978. Before even I was born and Will Wilson. Arsenal were really. It's very hard to work out because spurs were terrible, but Arsenal really needed to be good in this game and they really, from the minute one they
- [02:10]
Jonathan Wilson
were, they were really good. I think it's significant that Michael Arteta seemed incredibly relaxed afterwards. I mean, almost as relaxed as I've ever seen him. And he was talking about how much he enjoyed the last 72 hours that they needed to come together. Wolves game and they had done. I think he's looking forward to a week off. You have a first week off that Arsenal have had in, in two months, which is, you know, it's got to help. I mean, he was so relaxed. He even sort of played along with Gary Cottrell as he was asking one of his quirky questions. You know, he actually introduced with a surprise me Gary, which. Which I mean seemed a risk, frankly, but I think everybody got away with it. But, but I mean that. Yeah, that's indicative of how sort of. How sort of jovial he was afterwards in a very sort of non arteta way. But they did for the fourth game in the last six and third game in a row, third league game in a row, they did concede within five minutes of scoring. And you do think there is another world not that far removed from one we're living in where spurs had held out for another 15, 20 minutes in the second half rather than gifting Arsenal two goals. And then maybe Arsenal, for all they were dominant, they were clearly the better side. They clearly played very well. But what if it had been 11 of a 65 minutes rather than 3 1? Would we then have been talking about another? Them bottling again and dropping points? They shouldn't have done. They didn't. They played really well. The gaff's back to five, but I wouldn't say that all the doubts have gone away.
- [03:43]
Max Rushden
No, but you are. It's getting very hypothetical for spurs to do anything. We'll get to Tottenham. We will get to Tottenham.
- [03:50]
Jonathan Wilson
But that's the point. Tottenham was so bad, it's really hard to read anything into it. What are we really into?
- [03:55]
Max Rushden
Ebriza, John. He scored five in goals in two North London derbies. I guess if you guarantee, you know, you being the player that beats spurs twice a season, that almost justifies a price tag for Arsenal. But it does presuppose that Arsenal will play spurs twice a season, which, which may not happen, but it's great for him. And his first finish especially was very good, I thought.
- [04:16]
John Brewin
Yeah, yeah. Seized on it, smashed it home. Obviously had rehearsed his goal celebration. Well done. And I think we've all shared that idea that it's been disappointing that Eze hasn't been as big a part of the Arsenal team as we'd like and with that add that real edge of flair to Arsenal. But I think it was a great selection by Mikel Arteta. We've got to credit him for this. It's one of those things where a player is going to be motivated in a game and he clearly thought that this was a game where as a skills could exploit well, essentially Tottenham's uselessness at the base of midfield and in defense and and so it proved. You mentioned the 5 nil game from 1978. You probably have all seen one of the goals from that because, yeah, it's the 101 Great Goals video that we probably all watched as a schoolboys. And it's the first one on the, on the, on the tape, Liam Brady. And I think the John Watson commentary is along the lines of, look at that. Which is, you know, really good stuff. And it's that sort of swerving shot. And that was a good Tottenham team at that time, one that had come from the doldrums, but this one is in the Doldrums, as I'm sure we'll discuss a bit later. But Arsenal were good, went about their task and I suppose the point Jonathan's making is that it could have gone against them, but it didn't. And they, they dealt with that, those setbacks and, you know, the disallowed goal in a way that a professional team going for the title should do. And Jocherez, one of those players, another like essay in which there's been a significant disappointment, scored an absolute hammer of a goal. Absolutely brilliant. And then another. And credit to him, he's been in the realm of the Internet meme for the last few weeks. I saw one at the weekend where he appeared to be wearing some sort of Dockers, you know, sort of big DMs or something. There was a sort of mockery of his, of his skill on the ball. But, you know, sometimes, sometimes a team needs a striker that is going to run the channels, work hard, use up defenders, you know, make, make it difficult for them and, and then, you know, the team works around him. We've seen that many times over, you know, but occasionally it's got to be the time where they turn it on and score goals, which is what he's bought for. And his productivity since the tournament year has been very good. He's an awkward customer, but he's done very well recently. We've got to credit him for that. And if you star in a North London derby, as you said before, well, that's part of the job. And maybe Arsenal fans have a cult hero amongst them.
- [07:05]
Max Rushden
Yeah, and actually, you're crazy. His goals were all his goals until up to this, unless I misremembering, are all very efle. But this was like they were quite league two goals, but these were really good goals and he held it up well and he was strong and he bullied Dragons in and Paolinia. Gary, look, we criticize Arsenal for their mentality when it isn't there. And so we should probably praise them when it is there.
- [07:27]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. It was a good, excellent response to the Wolves aberration. They were up against very little. I just to sort of follow on from what Johnson said, look, they absolutely deserve to win and possibly could have won by more. I just thought there was a couple of key moments that went their way that might not have the Randall Colo Muani equalizer that was ruled out for a push in the back at 2:1. A lot of referees would not have ruled that goal out. And on Match of the Day last night, they showed examples of goals like that that weren't ruled out. Technically it was a push in the back.
- [08:08]
Jonathan Wilson
Can you say about that? When I first the angle I was at and I was pretty much directly in line with Peter Banks. Yeah. Everybody around me in the press box and me were all like, oh, it's just a push. There's no way that's gonna be allowed.
- [08:19]
Max Rushden
Yeah.
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Jonathan Wilson
And then you see another one, you go, oh, hang on. There's hardly any contact at all. So I completely get why Peter Banks in the moment thought was a push because as I say, I was looking over his right shoulder and it looked completely. The angle he was at that I was at, it looked completely like a push.
- [08:34]
Max Rushden
Are you ref cam? Are you ref Cameraman? Are you on the. You're just on Peter Banks for the whole game. Perched on Peter Banks right shoulder, hanging
- [08:42]
Jonathan Wilson
on his chest, on a little medallion around his neck. Yes.
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Max Rushden
So there was that mom Bazin. I guess the other one is the David Raya one.
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Barry Glendenning
Yeah, yeah. I think. I think if Arsenal scored an identical goal and it was disallowed, they'd feel very aggrieved. But it was ruled out and that's fine because it was technically a push. And then the second one was the Richarlison flick at 3:1, which David Raya clawed off the line. Brilliant save. If that creeps over the line to make it 3:2. With 10 minutes to go, who knows what might have happened. But as you said earlier, these are hypotheticals. Were clutching at straws. On another day, those things might have not gone Arsenal's way. And it could have resulted in Tottenham getting a point they really didn't deserve because they were on the ropes after 15 minutes. And an uncharacteristic mistake by Declan Rice let Spurs back in moments after Arsenal had opened the scoring. But I'm not going to say a statement win from Arsenal because they weren't up against much, but it was certainly a Statement performance from Gyokares which came at a great time. Just, you know, with the run in ahoy. If he can build on that, that'll be great for Arsenal, obviously.
- [09:58]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed obviously, Declan Rice, nothing silly. Next five lads and then mistake is, is good fun. And, and on another day, you know, like these things maybe went Arsenal's way, but on another day they would have scored another four, I reckon. And I was thinking about this, Wilson. I think objectively, given players available confidence and organization, I think it's possible that Tottenham are the worst team in this league at the moment. Honestly, like, Wolves are organized, Burnley are organized.
- [10:26]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah.
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Max Rushden
Tottenham have no players. What are they doing? They're just like, it's just a player on his own who actually has two Arsenal players behind him and he's kind of like trying to sort of like just. He's just trying to shepherd the ball to no one. There's no idea. There's nothing.
- [10:40]
Jonathan Wilson
I, I sort of. Yeah, I sort of know what you mean. And maybe, maybe that is in some sense correct. But they will get players back before the end of the season. Igor Tudor said he thought they'd have two back by the Fulham game next weekend. I thought he was very impressive, actually. You know, he sort of said, yeah, obviously it's, you know, he's sad, he's angry, but sometimes you need a wake up call and, and this maybe is good for the players to know just exactly how far off that they are. I sort of think they probably knew how far off they were, but I know what he means. And it's a way to try and turn an absolutely crushing 41 defeat into something that's not just a disaster. But I thought there was a moment really early on where you saw the problems that they've got, that Xavi Simmons went to press and it must have been, I think Timber must have had it. And you can see Xavi Simmons sort of beckoning SA forward saying, come on, come and press, come and press, come and press. And you can see Sar thinking, well, hang on. But if I do that, there's a huge gap behind me because Jed Spence hasn't got up to support me. And then eventually Sar does go and guess what? Jimmy just knocks it past him into the space that Saad knew he'd be leaving. So it's not that anybody's done anything wrong there. It's just that that press is not working. And that was something Tudor said afterwards. He was talking about how they're not jumping forward, they're not aggressive Enough in the press and I guess that will come when they've got more time to work on it. And against opponents who aren't as good as Arsenal. I as egotist said Arsenal probably are the best side in the world at the minute. There's an argument they're the best side in the world at the moment. Fulham and other teams are not that. And so maybe, maybe after another week of teeters training, spurs will be a bit more aggressive. But they're in trouble, there's no doubt about that. They're four points off relegation. And you kind of. You look at West Ham and you sort of think there's another world in which West Ham have got seven more points than they've got at the minute. Just from the last four or five games where they haven't quite taken advantage of, let leads slip. Yeah, Tottenham could be an even bigger trouble than they are. I think there's evidence forests are going to improve under Vita Pereira. So they, they do need players back and they do need to improve pretty, pretty quickly.
- [12:42]
John Brewin
Yeah, I, I was at Eagles Eagle, Tudor's unveiling on Friday, which preceded actually by a bit of a chat with Johan Langer, the sporting director, which is something oddly. We talked about last week that someone needed to come forward and speak, which he did though. Didn't really say anything that we didn't know. But hey, that's probably part of the job. Tudor chatting to people. The word was that the players have been beasted in training all week as he'd worked with them, obviously questions of the formation. He's a three at the back man. Jonathan obviously has his thoughts on three at the back and it didn't work really, did it? But he talked about how he. I think he described Tottenham's as an emergency situation, but he also said that they would stay 100% stay up. But he said that he doesn't look at the league table, which I think all managers have to say by contractually these days, I think, and that he would take it, you know, it was a process and he thought that the player, you know, the fans would like what they saw. Well, I'm not sure that really worked out on his first game in charge. There's a lot to. A lot to go on. He only had 13 players fit. I think that's fair to say. He's got a hell of a job there, you know, and he has this reputation as a firefighter, a label he doesn't particularly like. And I suppose a big question is, are those players the players that he has to hand rather than the players that are within the club because a lot of them are injured. Did have the stomach for the fight. Well, when they started losing that game heavily, as you said, Max, it could have been more. It perhaps should have been more. It felt like Arsenal left some goals on the table, really. Tottenham, as performances go, that in a second half performance is probably. It's got to be one of the worst of the season. Have you got to say they were pretty damn awful. So yes, the Tudor period, is it Edward vi? Lady Jane Grey. I mean, you know.
- [14:47]
Jonathan Wilson
Well, the thing is that they played okay in the first half at least, except they're getting men behind the ball, getting in the way of things that Arsenal clearly could. It could have been comfortably ahead by half time. That's obviously true. But they've done enough to get away with it. And you do just sort of think if he could just have held out 15, 20 minutes, would Arsenal have got nervous? And what do they do? Within two minutes of the start of the second half, they leave. Kjokkov is completely free. 20 yards from goal. 15 minutes or 14 minutes after that, Dragonshin plays a very strange weak header into Basouma on the edge of the center circle. But in his own half, just get height on that, get that forward. Don't put him under pressure. And then they have a bit of bad luck. That Van de Vent's tackle bounces off Polynha and goes straight to ESA. But don't give the ball away. 35 yards from your own goal seems a pretty basic thing. So Tottenham, everything mildly positive they've done in the first half they just chucked away in those two moments in the first 16 minutes of a second.
- [15:47]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
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Max Rushden
Baz Linders says. Will Richarlison rip his shirt off or refuse to celebrate his late winner at Watford in October? Oh, give me strength. Anyway, a brilliant win for Arsenal. The gap is back to five points, isn't it? To Manchester City who beat Newcastle 21 and. And this, Barry, a massive win for Man City. I mean Pep did say before the game he didn't care about the title race. And we knew he was lying. And then he really showed he was lying by how much he celebrated. How much they celebrated after the win.
- [16:15]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, it was a big win, not an entirely surprising one because Newcastle have now lost 17 times in a row in the Premier League at Manchester City. They went into this game on the back of a long old schlep to and from Carabag. And I thought they really played well. Actually. I thought they were very Unlucky to have that Dan Burn header from a free kick that would have made it too. All ruled out for offside because he was blatantly pushed offside by Ruben Diaz. You said to me yesterday, you reckon if that happens and there were a couple of incidents of this over the weekend. I can't remember the other one off the top of my head.
- [16:57]
Jonathan Wilson
Head.
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Barry Glendenning
But if that happens, then you shouldn't be offside because it's not your fault. It's a rival player's fault. They also had a late shot by Harvey Barnes, P away by Donna Roma, which might have earned them a point. But I think City were probably worth the win overall. Nick O'Reilly was brilliant. Erling Haaland was really good despite not getting his goal. And I didn't have high hopes for Newcastle, but they played well and. And City really had to work hard for this win.
- [17:31]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I think so. Nico Riley played in the 10 for City. Wilson scored two. Kept Foden out of the side as interesting. A player who's played really well at left back. And at one point when we were working out our England team, he was the starting left back. I mean, the 10 is a trickiest spot to get, but like, it's interesting the versatility that he has.
- [17:50]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, it is. And I guess that's. There's very few managers would use a player who's been in midfielder most of his career. I guess midfield as a left back is a not, not unusual journey. But then suddenly in the same season to go to number 10. I think Guardiola's unusual among managers for. For being prepared to do that. It is odd when they've got Foden and Turkey that they. They choose to use the left back in that position, but it worked. He played really well. He's clearly a hugely promising player. It's good news for England for the World cup because he covers so many different positions. It gives him a lot more flexibility in the squad. I think the one thing you'd say about City from a negative point of view is yet again in the second half, their level dropped and they got deeper and deeper and Haaland had a great game defensively. It's not many times when Holland's had to have a great game defensively. How come City have become a team who now cling on to leads in the last 20 minutes, sitting on the edge of their own box. That's not something that was ever there with Guardiola before. So, yeah, I think City won seven of the last eight now, but I don't really feel they're playing particularly well and I think they've only won four or maybe they've won six of the last seven. They've won four of the last eight in the Premier League. So yeah, those stats are slightly padded by FA cup and in Europe. But I don't, I don't think you can. It feels odd of a team who, who have let me get the start right rather than just making it up. That would be, that would be a start, wouldn't it? That'll be a good thing.
- [19:18]
Barry Glendenning
You should just go full Ratcliffe, Jonathan, make up stats. It's fine. No one will notice.
- [19:24]
Max Rushden
I think he makes up things about Hungary in the 50s to be honest.
- [19:27]
Jonathan Wilson
But you know, City have won 79 of our last 80 playing 105 year old Hungarian in midfield and yet still it doesn't feel like they're quite ready to go on a run.
- [19:37]
Max Rushden
Do you think so? I mean it's in that interesting situation, Wilson, where it's in Arsenal's hands and it's in City's hands. So whose hands will it be in in the end?
- [19:46]
Jonathan Wilson
I don't know. I mean this is a really obvious thing to say, but I think that game of the Etihad might be quite crucial.
- [19:52]
Max Rushden
Do you think the. No, no, I, I agree with you and thanks for pointing it out. Hopefully I'll get a longer answer from John Bruin on this. But people are saying like the Carabao Cup Final is just before that, isn't it? And, and saying, you know, whoever wins that will automatically go and win the league. I don't know if that's true because, you know, games are different but it is fascinating that those two games are so close together.
- [20:09]
John Brewin
Yeah, it is and it's nice to have those sort of series of games. I know there's only two but you know, it reminds you, you sort of remember in Barcelona and Real Madrid used to play each other every week or whatever in the Pep and Mourinho era or something like that. And Liverpool and Manchester City. So that had quite a few meetings and you. That's what you need, isn't it? Like they're both staring each other down. Pep was talking about cocktails at the weekend, of course with Mikhail Artest.
- [20:40]
Max Rushden
Yes. Caparinas and daiquiris.
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John Brewin
Yeah, yeah. Over something. I don't think Mick Mckel's quite this the guy to, you know, what do we think Mel drinks on a night,
- [20:52]
Jonathan Wilson
you know, the odd beer he specified he does not drink cocktails. He may have humored Gary Cottrill, but he did not humor a question about what booze he's going to drink this week. He just looked confused. I don't drink cocktails. And there was an awkward silence and we moved on.
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John Brewin
Yeah, that one fell flat. Yeah.
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Max Rushden
I mean, I think after his romantic surprise, maybe Gary Cottrell got excited and thought he could take it, you know, in any direction he wanted. He might be a single malt man, don't you, Arteta? At some point, you know, he could do an advert for whiskey.
- [21:27]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
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John Brewin
It's interesting, isn't it, to. To can compare the two managers? Because we have this idea, and no one's got proof of this, that Pep's in D mob happy mode and is maybe eyeing a life beyond football where he can drink Cabrinhas every day if he wants to, whereas Mikel Arteta is here for the long haul. It is, you know, 100 focused, you know, no detail left unturned. You know, wakes up in the middle of the night and considers, you know, the grass at the Emirates and stuff like that. Whereas Peps, you know, he's done all that. There's. There's no need to consider that stuff anymore. And he's doing stuff like playing Nico O'Reilly as a. As a number 10 when he cast Phil Foden and Ray and Cherokee. I mean, this guy's just, you know, just. Just kicking back, just just enjoying himself. Yeah. Free jazz in it, you know. And it's funny, Nico Rally reminds me the thing that I remember reading about, no less than Friends, Beckenbau and Emlyn Hughes, which was that by playing in defense, they were probably cheating because they were too good to actually play in defense. And. And, you know, Nico Riley's got a long way to go to reach those levels. Emily Hughes is a very good player, by the way. Beckerville, I'm sure the listeners know all about, but. But what a talent. Where has this guy come from? I think he's only played something like 33, 34 Premier League games, and he's. He's been brilliant this season. He's got to be one of the players of the year, hasn't he?
- [22:56]
Max Rushden
Yeah, it's worth saying that. Beckham Bauer, absolutely terrible captain on A Question of Sport.
- [23:02]
Jonathan Wilson
And does it.
- [23:04]
John Brewin
Would he confuse John Reed with. With Princess Anne? That's the question.
- [23:08]
Max Rushden
Of course he would. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, that'll do for part one. Part two will begin at the City Ground.
- [23:15]
Jonathan Wilson
That's a spectacularly obscure reference. The weird thing was, it was exactly what was in my Head. But like I just thought there's no point saying it. I even knew it was John Reed
- [23:26]
Max Rushden
trying to get in the younger listeners. And we're going, we're doing, you know on, you know, the picture round on question of sport in 1988. This is going to go well, isn't it?
- [23:39]
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- [24:11]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Forest nil, Liverpool one. John, you did the minute by minute, the last few minutes. You had quite a job on, didn't you there?
- [24:19]
John Brewin
Yes, well Liverpool were and I, I Arnesot agreed with this and Jamie Carragher said this were as bad as he'd seen them this season, which is pretty bad. Yeah. And they didn't obviously Jamie Carragher kept his language, you know, for a, for a family audience. But I do remember seeing him years ago at Hull where Liverpool lost and I do remember him coming over to us in the, in the press corps and just saying one word and just saying atrocious and then walking off and I felt that and I felt that that's probably what he thought of that first time performance. So they did get better in the half. Let's also credit Nottingham Forest for a much improved performance. Vitor Perea doing what Vitor Perea does, he was the other manager that I met this week. I shook two managers hands this week max. I shook both. Igor Tudor and Vital. Such a class from both of them, you got to say doing that, you know, shaking hands with the journalists.
- [25:21]
Barry Glendenning
I'm going to say Igor Tudor has the firmer grip.
- [25:25]
John Brewin
Barry, you are 100% correct. That is. Yeah.
- [25:29]
Max Rushden
Did they single you out, John?
- [25:31]
John Brewin
No, they just do the rounds and you know I did have a.
- [25:35]
Max Rushden
Got it.
- [25:35]
John Brewin
I said to Vitor, good luck. And he said good luck. He goes look man, yeah, we're gonna need it. Which I thought was quite nice, you know, but okay.
- [25:45]
Max Rushden
It's like you're in a movie.
- [25:46]
John Brewin
Yeah.
- [25:46]
Max Rushden
So you're in a heist movie.
- [25:47]
John Brewin
Yeah.
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Max Rushden
Vito Pereira just before you and him go into the bank vault and you say good luck Vitor, we're going to need it, Dan. And the montage starts. You get in the car. This is exciting. Anyway, carry on to the game if possible.
- [26:00]
John Brewin
Yeah, yeah, I see. As very much as the Thelma and Louise of the. Of the Premier League. Yes. But Forest were really excellent apart from up front and this is where they ran into issues. Virgil and had one of his less solid games. But still Liverpool's defence held fairly firm. Igor Jesus actually does well in Europe but not so well in the Premier League. And you know, Callum Hudson Odoi let an early chance go that I think he will have regretted because not as so many chances came their way and it was one that got away from Forest. And then obviously the two goals, the first one from Alexis McCallister. Now a good friend of mine said at the time he hadn't scored all season. So it's one of those where a player is just waiting for the ball to go off his backside for his first goal of the season. And it actually happened except in came var to show that actually hit his elbow as well. And McAllister was fairly even handed about that. And then Forest just I suppose went to sleep really for the. Probably tired. Ortega made a save but Ortega had a very good game. And then McAllister scored. That's a big win for Liverpool. You know, it hauls them into the top four. But it feels a bit like. A bit like Jonathan said that the. The results have been good or better of late. But it feels like there's a lot of that sort of thing they're having to grind this season. It's been unhappy. They're probably waiting for the end of the season. But I felt sorry for Forest and as Jon also said earlier was there are signs that Vitor can turn it around. A bit of vitamin P can. Can get Forest out of it which is a big worry for Tottenham.
- [27:46]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Carl says on the McAllister dislod goal. Can anyone think of a more perfect analogy to prove that those at Stockley park don't know their ass from their elbow? I mean I did.
- [27:57]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah.
- [27:57]
Max Rushden
Like Barry, I know it's a handball but the football fan in me doesn't want that goal to be disallowed. Like. Like it just. Am I being ridiculous? Am I just going so far down that I don't want any handball to be a handball but it just feels like, you know, he's just blocked it from Molleina who how he's letting that drop there. I mean that is ridiculous. But maybe I'm being ridiculous. I mean you could by all means. I'm happy to be told I'm ridiculous.
- [28:23]
Barry Glendenning
You're entitled to your Opinion I guess. I mean the fact that McAllister was quite yeah sanguine about it afterwards was probably tells you. I. I have to say it took me a lot of replays to establish that it had actually hit his elbow. But I guess if your back is to the ball and there's absolutely no way it can be intentional then but yeah, I don't have any strong opinions one way or the other. I do think Forest were desperately unlucky in this game to come away with nothing because Liverpool were shocking in the first half, not brilliant in the second and I suppose after they'd got away with that first one for McAllister the second goal was kind of identical. Ish. So you know you should have learned your lesson and I presumed it would be offside but I. Because Virgil's such a hulking presence I like many other people I suspect I hadn't seen little O hiding behind him. He not Hobbit keeping him on side by a. A toenail so that's fair enough. Can't really complain about that. But yeah I thought it was very. I thought Forest deserved a point. Curtis Jones was a late call up because Floring Vers got injured in the warm up and they really miss Vers And Curtis Jones seemed to be at the heart of everything bad that happened to Liverpool in the first half. Everything seemed to be his fau but I don't think he was alone. He was just conspicuously that little bit worse than McAllister and Gravengeburch as well. He didn't have a particularly good game.
- [30:06]
Max Rushden
Liverpool, they're not into the top four. They're level on points now. Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool all level on the same points. Manchester United of course got that game in hand against Everton tonight. Palace 1, Wolves nil. Wilson high up the running order mainly because Oliver Glassner's desperation to get sacked is just. Just quite entertaining. On Thursday night after the draw in the Conference League against Zrinsky Mostar he thought okay, I've got to have a go at the fans. Maybe that's my opportunity. They can sing whatever they want. I know what I'm doing. I would say the most important thing is to stay humble. I think the same for the fans. Stay humble. Never forget where you're coming from. I think a few who are so critical in this situation are not humble anymore. Forget where you're coming from and it's usually in life you are punished for this. But unfortunately for him Gassin gets this late winner and they win the football match. And so he clings on against his will.
- [30:53]
John Brewin
Yeah.
- [30:53]
Jonathan Wilson
I mean it's just sad how that's sort of degenerated and you'd say that the, you know last season we were talking about how great it was that Newcastle and Palace had both. You know, in Newcastle case after a 70 year gap in palace case for the first time ever won stuff or won things domestically and actually both of those triumphs, I mean it's not going to matter in, in 10 years I suppose not going to matter now. But they have slightly been tainted by the fact that in Newcastle's case the hero of that final was Alexander Isaac who then leaves in the summ, you know, in pretty acrimonious circumstances. And now, you know, Glassner and I guess Ezzer were the two big keys to Palace's victory. Ezzer goes, I don't think I speak the acrimonious thing. People understand the. That's just the structure of football now. But Glassner is, yeah, he's chipping at the fans, the fans having a go back at him and that that situation's all gone a bit unpleasant. So you're really not allowed to be happy for very long in football, are you? No.
- [31:52]
Max Rushden
Do you think John, it's affected Glasner's reputation like do you think this will impact on the level of club he goes to next?
- [31:59]
John Brewin
Yes. And I think if you look at his previous career things tends to have unraveled elsewhere as well which may have potential employers looking at it. I noticed that he quoted from Gary Barlow there. Did you see that? Never forget where you're coming from. Yeah. So you know, take that. We're pretty big.
- [32:23]
Max Rushden
He didn't have a choir of school children behind him, did he? You know, that's what he needed.
- [32:27]
John Brewin
Maybe. Maybe that's what he'll get for the big send off at the end of the season though I rather doubt it. But yeah, I suppose the thing is they were playing Wolves. Who. Wolves just are unlucky, aren't they? I think they were okay in this game and you know it's. Rob Edwards is doing a reasonable job because I think we all know that his job is to keep things happy and on an even keel until next season when the real work begins. And I think he's done a pretty adequate job in that respect. But yeah, a late goal, a celebration. Do palace fans sort of reluctantly celebrate that because they want him out? I mean it's just such a. It's such a strange vibe but I mean palace has always been sort of in their time in the Premier League, they've had a succession of managers, haven't they? From Ian Holloway. I mean, I think if you remember Ian Holloway sort of decided that he wasn't up for it and then they got in Tony Pulis and remember Tony Pulis did that really excellent job and then he puts away and they had Allardyce and they had, you know, Roy Hodgson in and out. The Deboer thing, it's palace and managers, it's like they don't stick around for a particularly long time and, and I think a lot of the time they're straining against a club that's ambitious but is working around a pretty limited budget and a limited scope and, and Glasner's from the very start almost, you know, from the, the transfer window that he didn't get the play, the first transfer windows he didn't get the players that he wanted. Has been banging his head against that and he's done a good job within that. But his ambitions to go to a bigger club perhaps might well have been affected by his conduct. I think that's fair to say.
- [34:15]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Arikadare looked like a guy who'd missed his last four penalties. Is a guy who missed his last four penalties, three at Genk, one at Amiens and Crechy at the time was on the pitch, scored 12 in his last 13. So it's odd that Orekadari took it. He got nothing excuses the racist abuse and we're going to talk about that after the Chelsea Burnley game that he received online. Barry was crutchy unlucky with that second yellow. I thought he knew the whistle had gone and then kicked it away but then said he didn't hear because it was bit. It wasn't like a proper welliot down the line. It was a bit of a half ass clearance but maybe he hadn't heard. We don't know.
- [34:51]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I thought he was a little bit unlucky because the ball hadn't gone out of play and it was being contested. So I think think you could have given them the benefit of the doubt. Wolves are a bit unlucky here. I think Edwards has done a good enough job. They're not, they're obviously going to get relegated but I think they could still have a say in who goes down with them because they still have to play West Ham, Leeds spurs and Burnley. You'd imagine Burnley will probably be gone. That's last day of the season. That'll be a, you know, one last hurrah for both of them before they, they go down into the championship. But yeah, I'm kind of impressed with the. The job Edwards has done. He's. He's, you know, wolves are. Don't resemble anything like the rabble they were before his arrival.
- [35:44]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I totally agree. It'd be quite the catharsis, won't it? That last day. Everyone's relegated but we all still love the game. It might be a beautiful thing. Wilson Chelsea 1, Burnley 1 deserve point for Burnley. They almost won it at the end. Like, you know, like Fleming scores that header. They'd already been warned. I think Ashley Barnes had a header from a Ward Price corner. Then Bruno Larson has that chance. And there's just something about Burnley like they will go down. I know afterwards Fleming was saying look, well you know, this could be the impossible dream. But I do love how they are just not giving up.
- [36:13]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah. And I guess one of the positive things from of set plays is if you do have an edge over the opponent and the opponent can't work out to stop you, every single one is suddenly fascinating. But I mean Chelsea's mark on that was. Was dreadful. I mean I find trying to work out who should be marking whom almost impossible. So Michael H was, was blaming Andres Santos and look, it looks terrible that he just lets Andrew Santos just lets. Lets Fleming run past him. The only thing I wondered. As I say, I find this far too complicated to actually understand. I need somebody to talk me through it. But he had gone through Andrew Sanders zone and maybe he thought well that's, that's not my job anymore. And I think it's Tosa Adelaide. Rabio is sort of, then is sort of just standing there watching as Fleming gets close to him and doesn't advance towards him. So whoever's fault it is, it is somebody's fault and it has gone wrong. And I, you know, I think Liam is right that Chelsea shouldn't be letting in goals like that. I mean yeah, maybe, maybe you get one corner that happens within. If that was a piece of goal, fair enough. But the fact it's repeated and they weren't able to correct that. And yet Chelsea have had this problem all season with. With set plays, long throws. They've let in a lot of cheap goals through that.
- [37:32]
Max Rushden
Although it's difficult, you know, chat at a corner when you're defending is. It's quite hard to communicate. Not my zone, your zone, my zone in my zone, at your zone, like with any sort of like accuracy. When does the zones. Is there a blurred line between zones? What was interesting about Rocinia was he said one of our players missed his assignment, which either is as Barry and I were discussing yesterday, either is that didn't do his French homework assignment or it's like, like a sort of FBI like Hitman didn't like do his assignment but maybe he said someone marked the wrong guy. Which reminds me of Sunday League where you try and mark someone smaller than you early so you don't have to mark the hulking great center back that comes up from the back. And if there is some coward in the Chelsea squad that we don't know that was meant to mark ZN Fleming
- [38:18]
John Brewin
but didn't, can we credit James Ward Prowse with his delivery? I mean I think that's the, the whole. That the whole issue became an issue for Chelsea is that they could not deal with the quality of James Ward Prowse's delivery. I mean Scott Parker talked about that afterwards and Liam Rossini acknowledged it as well. It was, you know, in the set play era. It is odd that obviously Nuno and James Ward Prowse have had some sort of personal relationship breakdown for whatever reason. We don't know that was both at Forest and West Ham felt like he would have been a lot of use to West Ham with the players they have. And then Burnley have the benefit of war Prowse at the moment now he only came on as a substitute and Chelsea had failed to kill off the game. A long ride. Football Weekly hero ashley barnes who 11 years ago I was at a game in which he and Nemanu Matic got involved in a contra Tom and he was. Matic was sent off for retaliation. So those with long memories booed Ashley Barnes. I. I didn't. I do have a long memory but I wasn't in. Wasn't booing him.
- [39:34]
Max Rushden
Fair play for remembering that.
- [39:36]
John Brewin
Yeah. And yes it, you know, I suppose Ashley Barnes and James will proud added the chaos element that the Rossini's team don't deal with too well. It's a game they should have killed off. But you know, I don't get to Stamford Bridge too often and I saw some complaints about the atmosphere after and I have to sort of share with that that I mean, okay, it's a game against Burnley so It's a Saturday 3 o'. Clock. It's not, you know, the highest grade fixture but. But it was a bit empty and it felt like the game was just sort of ebbing somewhere and that's where Scott Parker and Burnley saw their chance and they got into it. Credit to them, you know, all the. It's funny Isn't it? Wolves have got a very low total. Burnley have got a very low total. But you can't say either of those teams have given up. They've impressed in their own ways, haven't they? And it suppose it shows. It speaks to the quality that's in the Premier League, you know. And Flemings was a great header. Well done Burnley. I've got to say Liam Rossenior afterwards was honest, which I think is something sadly that's going to count against him at a certain point because that's just the way that us in the carrying media are. He's going to say something that's, you know, going to count against him.
- [40:46]
Max Rushden
Fafana was sent off. He and Hannibal were subjected to racist abuse from this game online or dare was abused yesterday. Romain Mundel, Mr. Chancellor, Sunderland. He was racially abused. Kick it out. Say this has been an appalling weekend after four players called out racist abuse they received on social media. But the sad fact is we know it happen regularly. The message from them is loud and clear. Action must follow. Players cannot be expected to tolerate this behavior and nor should anyone else. Meta, responding to the BBC after the Fafana and Hannibal abuse said no one should be subjected to racist abuse. We remove this content when we find it. No one thing will stop racist behavior overnight but will continue working to protect our community from abuse and cooperate with police investigations. Which Barry is good words from Meta, but I don't know if anyone believes it.
- [41:34]
Barry Glendenning
No, I don't think they make any more than a token effort to remove that kind of content. It's difficult to know how to police it unless the police actually get involved, find out who's posting the abuse, subject them to the full force of the law and and they should be jailed and people have been jailed for it in the past. But beyond that, that it's difficult to know what more can be done. I, I presume quite a lot of the abuse is coming from outside the United Kingdom. I'm not saying all of it is because some people in the UK have been prosecuted successfully. But yeah, I don't have the answers but I do think it is disingenuous of Meta to claim that they're doing everything in their power to stop it.
- [42:23]
Max Rushden
Yeah, and, and you know, this is just the stuff we see. I'm sure there are loads of players that just don't, you know, publicize the abuse that they are getting and it is just incredibly depressing. Anyway, that'll do for part two, part three. We'll round up the rest of the games. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Villa 1, Leeds 1 and Baz. This is so tough for Leeds to take. The free kick from Anton Stack is so good. They played brilliantly for so much of this game and a win would have been enormous in their, you know, survival race.
- [43:03]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, you do tend to see their manager ruing missed wins a lot. In post match interviews we hear a lot about teams throwing away points from winning positions. I'd like to know and it would be easy enough to find out how many points Leeds have thrown away from drawing positions where they should have won. And I think this was a case in point. Still a point gained and they shouldn't forget that they deserve to win. The Anton Stack free kick was brilliant. Pulls it into the near top corner when Martinez was expecting him to go the other side and Villa were booed off at halftime. And yeah, Tammy Abraham needs one home at the death to, to rescue a point for Villa. And I think, I think yeah, it's probably a point they were lucky to get.
- [43:56]
Max Rushden
Roy says, is Anton Stack the biggest big man you've ever seen? Taking a free kick like that, it feels like a mistake. It reminded me a bit Wilson of Gary Mack versus Everton. Like slightly different but you know, the sort of seeing the keeper in the wrong place. But can you think of. I mean, I suppose Ronaldo's quite tall but he hasn't scored a free kick since I think the early 2000s. But like is there anyone else out there? Any other big men?
- [44:20]
Jonathan Wilson
I guess the unusual thing about is there was this sort of a craft to it. Whereas you think of something like Ronald Kohman who is a big man, he would take free kicks but he. Yeah, yeah, who just absolutely muller it. And I guess, I mean a stack can muller absolutely. But I mean when he arrived he came with a bigger reputation than I, you know. But I spoke to people in Germany about him. People said no, he's, he's actually. He is really good. He will be Leeds best player this season. I was a bit skeptical but he has been excellent and it's because he's got that combination of the physicality. But he's also can. You can. Can. Can pass a ball and can shoot.
- [44:54]
Max Rushden
Producer Silas says. Zlatan, I mean maybe, yeah, Marillo, they
- [44:57]
John Brewin
like Forest occasionally just decide, you know, go on big man, have a pop from here, don't they? That's, you know, and if he gets behind it then, well, you don't want to get in the way. I think yeah, you're Right.
- [45:09]
Max Rushden
It's a good point from Wilson though. Like it's a, it is a perfect, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a Predator's free kick, not a Robert Huth get over it and take a goal kick type free kick. West Ham. Neil Bournemouth, Neil Barry. You found the first half of this so bad you watched Chinese Saturday night TV instead?
- [45:26]
Barry Glendenning
Yes, I watched the first half. There was nothing of interest happened whatsoever. And the second half I spent watching Michael McIntyre's Big Show. So I. The second half could have been brilliant. I haven't seen it, it, I'm afraid.
- [45:40]
Max Rushden
Would you recommend, would you recommend the switch brewing? Not impressed.
- [45:45]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I mean I'm not really a Michael McIntyre fan. I'm aware of comedy is subjective. I'm more used to seeing him as a cutaway in the crowd at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Peter Crouch and Abby Clancy were on it. So it wasn't entirely on the football related. They were the up in the Waldorf and Statler box. And yeah, it was, you know, as Saturday night light entertainment goes, it was fine. I'd had a few pints, I'd met some friends in the pub for the Ireland England rugby match. So it was, it was grand. I was kind of half asleep.
- [46:20]
Max Rushden
West Ham are in the relegation zone. Wilson, they are two points off Forest, four points off spurs, six points off Leeds. And look, they have started playing better. This is another game where I think they, they, they could have won. They, they may regret these missed chances. They've got Liverpool away, Fulham away, City Home, Villa away. Like so they could have no points from those four games. Maybe I'm just speaking, hopefully my Tottenham hat on. But like that is a tough run for them to, to continue their, their sort of mini resurgence. It is.
- [46:51]
Jonathan Wilson
I, I mean there's two ways of looking at that. They team up at Chelsea and lose the game. They're one up going into injury time against Manchester United and draw the game. This game, I think they had some like 2.7 XG against 0.6, 0.7, something like that. So they probably should have won the game. And you think if they did have those seven extra points then obviously have you had seven more points? You'd be in a better place in the table. But they'd be out of the relegation zone. The pressure on Forest and Spurs would be far greater. They've just got to hope that the, the upturn in form will continue. I don't think any of those games are, I mean the thing this season is there is no Great team. In the Premier League, there is no City getting 100 points, Liverpool getting 90 odd points. So every, every game is a opportunity to get points. And the way West Ham play, the fact that they, they sit back, they absorb possession, they strike on the break. Even dominant as they were in terms of the XG on Saturday, I think they still only had just over 40% of the ball. But it doesn't matter to them. It suits the way they play to play against better sides. You look at Liverpool, you got bad. They were first off against Forest. Reason why West Ham can't get something from that.
- [48:01]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Cases. What do you make of Alphonse Areola DJing in a bar after West Ham's game? In the middle of a relegation dog fight, they're allowed to let their hair down. He has some hair, Barry, doesn't he? I mean, obviously you wouldn't know who it was.
- [48:13]
Barry Glendenning
You think, oh, DJ Lucas Fabianski on the steel wheels playing the plaza.
- [48:20]
Max Rushden
Is that McClos go there he is. Who's that? Who's in goal there? Anyway? Well done to him for pressing play and then moving. It looks like he's in a kitchen.
- [48:29]
Barry Glendenning
Didn't lie. Ross Senior get photographed having a beer.
- [48:32]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah. Yes.
- [48:33]
John Brewin
Yeah.
- [48:33]
Barry Glendenning
Chelsea drew with Burnley. I mean, that's a scandalous behavior.
- [48:37]
John Brewin
He was also accused of having no aura because he was drinking. What, what looked like, you know, when you get a pint and it's sort of overfilled and it's the sort of, the sort of flaky bit, you know, like a foam at the top. It looked like a bad pint, but he hadn't even started it, you know,
- [48:56]
Barry Glendenning
it looked like a bad, very expensive pint. You get in a massively overpriced hotel.
- [49:02]
John Brewin
Yes.
- [49:02]
Barry Glendenning
On in Docklands or something.
- [49:05]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, well, it looked like a, I'm not sure. It was an overpriced hotel. It looked like a Holiday Express bar, something like that. It looked very sort of. Yeah. Standard, budgety. I, I, There was like, can anyone,
- [49:17]
Max Rushden
can anyone have an aura in a Holiday Inn? Can anyone, Oliver Reed have an aura if you saw him having a pint in a holiday. Who's, who has an aura when they're just having one, one pint of Heineken alone in a Travel Lodge? Like, it's just not, it's not possible.
- [49:33]
Jonathan Wilson
Yes. Wilson. The Holiday Inn chain, I think, is named after the Bing Crosby film Holiday Inn. So I'd like to think Bing Crosby could have an aura in a Holiday Inn. But John and I had a pint with Sam Allardyce and Jim Montgomery in the bar at the, what's it called? The the Hilton Garden Inn. Hilton Garden Court, yeah. Next to Sadie Malight1 and I would say Sam Alice had an aura that night.
- [49:56]
Max Rushden
Fine. Well that is true. Big Sam, you can see it. Brighton 12 nil at Brentford. Massive win for Fabian Herzla. James Milner's record breaking 654th Premier League appearance 1 Beyond Gareth Barry, our own Barry has already explained why James Milner is a fraud on this podcast. Because Gareth Barry has played many more minutes. But John, this is a you know, sort of you think well that's Brighton probably safe and they really needed a win and Brentford is not an easy place to go and credit to them.
- [50:28]
John Brewin
No great win for, for Brighton in which actually James Milner played very well. So it's a well done to him on his big game. I suppose it makes James milner being a 40 year old appearance record appearance probably makes us all feel very old in this quartet because I think we all remember that, that his leads beginnings with those at that early goal at
- [50:50]
Jonathan Wilson
sun on Boxing Day.
- [50:51]
John Brewin
Yes, well I knew you'd remember. Yeah, he, I was going to say interesting quotes from Keith afterwards and he said the thing is for the, for the last 10 games we've been the best team in the Premier League so you know, not to feel too. And I thought Keith, you know, I mean that's, you're veering. I mean I'm a fan of Keith. I should say that I think he's done a great job. We all do obviously. But you're veering slightly into Brendan territory, aren't you with things like that? It was a slightly odd comment to make. Maybe in person it felt a bit better than it did when I was just reading it on the BBC text but it was like oh, that's a bit much.
- [51:34]
Max Rushden
Fulham 131 at Sunderland. Good game here, wasn't it? And you know we'd mentioned Romeo Mandel getting that abused. No justification for that. He has a big chance at nil. Nil. Just before Fulham take the lead him and S scored a penalty. After that Calvin Bassey had his shirt pulled by Brian. I didn't think Robbie had the dexterity to grab hold of a shirt but there we go. Well done.
- [51:56]
Jonathan Wilson
Angulo was absolutely terrible.
- [51:59]
Max Rushden
I've, I've, yes.
- [52:01]
Jonathan Wilson
Oh I'm, I'm frustrated by Angulo already. I, I, he, I thought he was bad against Liverpool. I thought he was awful in this game. Missed a good chance, gives the ball away a lot. But Actually, the thing I thought was inexcusable was he tried to turn. I think he probably did get caught, but doesn't get the free kick. And he just stays down, forces the game to stop. Then he stands up, he's not injured, he's just whining. It's been something Sun's been pleasantly free of for quite a while. Just get up, get back in position and he didn't do it, so. So I was not impressed by him at all. Sunland's new new left wing signing and the sooner that Xhaka is back and Lefe can move back to the left wing, the better. I did like look of Justin Tarby on the right till he got injured though. He was a young Ivorian who was very lively in the first half.
- [52:51]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I saw the Sunderland lineup, I'd never heard of him. And I got, who's this guy? I had to go and look him up, but. So they now have a Tabby and a Talby. Yeah, very exciting.
- [53:02]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah.
- [53:03]
Barry Glendenning
The one thing I would say about this game is at 2:1 with 10 minutes to go, it looked like Sunderland would get a point. And then Fulham scored this wonderful breakaway goal with orchestrated by Harry Wilson with a brilliant finish from Alex Wobby.
- [53:21]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Elsewhere, Sheffield Wednesday. Well, look, we all know the plight they've been in. Relegated from the championship after a 21 defeat at their rival Sheffield United. They were two nil down. Then Calvin Phillips, who announced to the world that he plays for Sheffield United by getting a straight red, one of those where he takes the ball and then he really crunches into the knee. He can't catch a break, can he? Wednesday scored straight away and he thought maybe they will keep themselves up at least for this game. But yeah, that's the earliest ever relegation, obviously in the spl. Celtic Rangers both dropped points and Hearts won. I was with a heart supporting mate yesterday who was just absolutely terrified as Rangers got from 2 nil down to 22 and thought they were going to win it. And anyway, Hearts four points clear now of Rangers, six points clear of Celtic, who have a game in hand. Old firm at Ibrox next weekend. Let's go to the Jazz bar with Ewan Murray next week then. And Mike says, can we have a mention for the Kiwi Derby and the legendary own goal. I sent this to you, John. Yes, absolutely. It's Wellington versus Auckland. I think Wellington lost five nil. It was nil nil at the time. And an amazing get launch clearance almost on the edge of the box and. And it's just a great moment of football. It's what we love about the game.
- [54:31]
John Brewin
Poetry.
- [54:32]
Max Rushden
Poetry, yeah. The keeper is far out and then he just sort of heads it into his own net. I encourage you all to go and search it out. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Wilson.
- [54:41]
Jonathan Wilson
Cheers. Thank you.
- [54:42]
Max Rushden
Thanks, Baz.
- [54:43]
Jonathan Wilson
Thank you.
- [54:43]
Max Rushden
Cheers, John.
- [54:44]
John Brewin
Thanks for having me.
- [54:45]
Max Rushden
But the Weekly Ears, produced by Silas Gray, our executive producer is Ian Chambers, will be back on Wednesday.
- [55:03]
Barry Glendenning
This is the Guardian.