Arsenal’s late heroics at Newcastle and peerless Palace beat Liverpool – Football Weekly

Summary

Football Weekly – Episode Summary

Arsenal’s Late Heroics at Newcastle and Peerless Palace Beat Liverpool

Date: September 29, 2025 | Host: Max Rushden | Guests: Barry Glendenning, Will Unwin, Nadim Manuha

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Overview:

This episode of Guardian's Football Weekly dives into a thrilling Premier League weekend defined by dramatic late goals. The panel leads with Arsenal's gritty last-minute win at Newcastle, the seismic upset as Crystal Palace overcome Liverpool, and explores deeper themes: refereeing controversies, managerial turmoil at Manchester United and West Ham, Chelsea’s self-inflicted wounds, and surprising moments elsewhere in the league. With characteristic wit, the pod dissects the biggest talking points and provides expert (and often hilarious) analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights:

Arsenal’s Late Win at Newcastle (00:48–15:13)

• Performance and Resilience:

  • Arsenal matched Newcastle’s intensity and “were much more creative and dynamic,” especially considering their prior struggles in such fixtures (02:30, Nadim Manuha).
  • Nick Pope (Newcastle goalkeeper) earned praise as Newcastle’s best on a tough day, reflecting Arsenal’s dominance (03:01, Nadim Manuha).

• Set Piece Excellence:

  • Discussion around Arsenal’s prowess from set pieces, epitomized by late goals via meticulously choreographed routines.
  • Will Unwin highlights strategic thinking on a 97th-minute short corner: “that sort of shows the difference you have in mentality... you can see different things when others aren’t reacting” (04:05).
  • Barry Glendenning elaborates on the technical quality behind Marino’s winning header: “To steer it inside the far post from that position is difficult” (05:46).

• Gabriel Handball/VAR Disputes:

  • Panel agrees referee calls were largely correct, with VAR showing its value, especially in clarifying Nick Pope’s important touch to deny a penalty (09:32–13:57).
  • Frustration expressed over current handball rules, Max suggesting: “none of them should be penalties…if you want to make it a free kick, make it a free kick, because A, they're fun and B, that’s not such a big punishment” (14:20).

Crystal Palace 2–1 Liverpool: Glasner’s Machine Outguns the Reds (15:13–22:20)

• Crystal Palace’s Transformation:

  • Palace, under Oliver Glasner, have transformed into “the most settled side in the whole league” (18:22, Nadim Manuha). Panelists note the team’s discipline, transition strength, and physicality.
  • Mateta described as Europe’s most underrated striker, with Will Unwin noting his “pace, physicality, but also the composure to finish from inside, outside the box” (15:40).

• Late Drama and Mentality:

  • Eddie Nketiah’s last-gasp goal earns Palace the win against a Liverpool side who have benefited from late winners themselves.
  • Liverpool manager Slot criticized for alluding to “one player decided to be more offensive” in the game’s decisive moment without naming them (21:07, Nadim Manuha).

• Implications for the Title Race:

  • Barry Glendenning: “If [Arsenal] hadn’t capitalised on the defeat of Liverpool...it would have been very deflating for all concerned. But they did…they’re in a very good position” (22:20).

Manchester United’s Malaise and Brentford’s Statement (24:27–33:23)

• A Midtable Malaise:

  • United labelled “a very midtable team” who only beat lower sides and cannot defeat well-organized opposition like Brentford (24:58, Will Unwin).
  • Defensive frailties exemplified by Harry Maguire’s poor positioning for Brentford’s opener; lack of belief and rhythm in squad highlighted by Nadim Manuha (27:13–28:04).

• Managerial Uncertainty:

  • AMorim’s frequently questioned tactics/formation with little tactical adaptability (“The system doesn’t seem to be working…” – 25:28, Will Unwin).
  • Upcoming fixtures look grim, and there’s skepticism that United can go on any kind of run.

• Brentford’s Quality and Refereeing Issues:

  • Brentford’s ruthlessness on the break praised, with Thiago’s clinical finishing highlighted (29:13–29:29).
  • Nathan Collins escapes a clear red card, despite VAR review lasting four minutes—“everyone can see it’s a red card,” laments Barry (33:23–33:33).

Chelsea Wobble, Brighton Rejoice (34:42–39:07)

• Brighton’s Satisfaction:

  • Brighton fans relished victory at Stamford Bridge, especially considering the exodus of players/staff to Chelsea (34:42–35:00).

• Chelsea’s Self-Destruction:

  • Repeated self-inflicted red cards leave Chelsea vulnerable, with Maresca’s conservative tactics post-red card contributing to back-to-back home defeats.
  • Questions about Maresca’s future mount—big game midweek against Benfica looms.

West Ham, Potter Out and Nuno In (39:07–43:33)

• Potter’s Sacking:
  • No surprise at Potter’s dismissal after poor results and performances; Barry expresses surprise Nuno took the job but expects improvement, especially in defending set pieces (40:08, Barry Glendenning).
  • Nadim Manuha describes player attitudes toward managerial changes, emphasizing pragmatism and self-interest: “the future person is more important than the past, especially when the turnover is that quick” (41:30).

Around the Grounds: City, Villa, Sunderland, Wolves, Leeds (47:16–60:06)

• City 5–1 Burnley:

  • Scoreline flatters City; Maxime Estev’s own goals noted, with panel reflecting on the misfortune of defenders in such moments (47:16–48:33).
  • City’s second-half surge, Doku’s form, and Haaland’s scoring (49:24–50:16).

• Villa 3–1 Fulham:

  • Villa overcome an early scare. Morgan Rogers and John McGinn praised; debate over penalty/simulation for Josh King (50:16–52:38).

• Sunderland’s Surprise Rise:

  • Former Sunderland defender Nadim Manuha is all aboard the “mackem train,” marveling at their tactical discipline, squad depth, and upward trajectory (53:04–55:09).

• Wolves 1–1 Spurs:

  • Wolves earn first point; Joe Palhinha’s late equalizer celebrated (55:58–57:36).

• Leeds 2–2 Bournemouth:

  • “All four goals from set pieces—the modern game.” Leeds’ physicality and aggression help them match Premier League demands (57:53–59:17).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments:

• On Arsenal’s mentality at St. James's:
  • “Arsenal can go to St. James’s Park and not be bullied.” — Nadim Manuha (02:30)
• VAR decisions and handball law:
  • “None of them should be penalties. If you have to… make it a free kick, because, A, they’re fun and B, that’s not such a big punishment.” — Max Rushden (14:20)
• On Palace’s evolution:
  • “They’re the most settled side, arguably, in the whole league. This unbeaten run is remarkable.” — Nadim Manuha (18:22)
• On United’s decline:
  • “It’s almost as if Manchester United are now a very mid table team.” — Will Unwin (24:58)
  • “The mystique’s not there anymore. Teams have a genuine belief that they will get points against United.” — Nadim Manuha (28:04)
• Managerial turnover at West Ham:
  • “As a player…you probably care more about the person that’s going to be coming in, because what does this mean for you?” — Nadim Manuha (41:30)
• On the agony of own goals:
  • “I was clean as a whistle for the first seven years…then one happened and I couldn’t have felt any lower.” — Nadim Manuha (47:33)
• On Villa’s comeback:
  • “There’s nothing so great as a fan…to score two goals so quickly.” — Max Rushden (52:38)
• On Leeds’ approach:
  • “Be tall, be physical, be robust, get in teams’ faces, make it as difficult as possible…Premier League teams that have come up learning from the mistakes of Russell Martin.” — Will Unwin (58:04)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:48 – Show opens; Premier League round-up.
• 02:04–15:13 – Arsenal’s win at Newcastle: analysis, decision review, handball law debate.
• 15:13–22:20 – Palace’s win over Liverpool, title race impact.
• 24:27–33:23 – Manchester United’s ongoing crisis and Brentford’s win.
• 34:42–39:07 – Chelsea’s defeat to Brighton, tactical discussion.
• 39:07–43:33 – West Ham sack Potter, Nuno’s arrival.
• 47:16–50:16 – City 5–1 Burnley, defender’s perspective on own goals.
• 50:16–52:38 – Villa 3–1 Fulham, King’s penalty controversy.
• 53:04–55:09 – Sunderland’s improbable rise.
• 55:58–57:36 – Wolves 1–1 Spurs, Palhinha’s finish.
• 57:53–59:17 – Leeds 2–2 Bournemouth, set piece trends.

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Tone and Style

The episode is witty, self-effacing, and packed with sharp analysis, quick banter, and self-referential humor. Panelists blend in-depth tactical and technical breakdowns with the offbeat (“Ancient history—talking about a year ago at Palace!”), and aren’t afraid to poke fun at themselves or football’s absurdities.

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Final Thoughts

A weekend brimming with last-minute drama produced a Football Weekly as entertaining as the matches themselves. Arsenal’s resilience, Palace’s rise, United’s slide, and the ever-looming specter of VAR ensured there’s plenty to chew over for football fans of all stripes.

Transcript

[Nadim Manuha]

This is the Guardian.

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[Max Unwin]

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. A brilliant weekend in the Premier League. So many late goals. It was almost as good as the golf. Those cowards. Arsenal turn it around at St. James's park late on. They're good from corners but they were good in open play too. So many tough calls. Jarrett Gillard must be exhausted. Artesa side now just two points behind Liverpool who get deservedly beaten by third place Crystal Palace. Eddie and Ketiah the hero after it looked like Federico Chiesa had grubbered an equaliser late on. Manchester United aren't back. Well beaten 3:1 by Brentford. Rumours of Sagarath might be Fun to replace. 3, 4, 2, 1. With a big old handbrake. Chelsea mess it up for themselves again. Brighton, the joyful beneficiaries. Two defeats in a row equals pressure on any Chelsea manager. Speaking of managers, Graham Potter gets the boot at West Ham for being really not very good. Can Nuno cheer everyone up at the London Stadium? Well done to Maxime Estev who scores as many as Erling Haaland at the Etihad and still waits for his first win at Forest. As Sunderland climb to fifth. There's a vital win for Villa. Wolves almost get the right prescription from Dr. Tottenham and Bournemouth leave it late at Leeds. We'll do all that, which is quite a lot. Answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Week. On the panel today, will unwin. Good morning.

[Will Unwin]

Good morning, Max.

[Max Unwin]

Welcome. Nader Benoha.

[Nadim Manuha]

Morning, sir.

[Max Unwin]

And everyone in Europe's second favorite man from Offaly, Barry Glendenning.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello. Hello. And congratulations, Shane Lowry.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah. Well done, pal. Let's start at St James Park. Newcastle 1, Arsenal 2. Goon squad says much will be made of the various narratives around the referee decisions, managers, etc. But at the end of the day, that was just a very good performance from Arsenal, wasn't it? Matched Newcastle's intensity but and were much more creative and dynamic than we've seen so far. Do you agree with Goon Squad, Nadham?

[Nadim Manuha]

I agree with goon squad 100% on this particular thing and I don't know his back history. But for now I'm very much on board with that because I was impressed by Arsenal because going to St. James's park, given, you know, the sort of recent loose rivalry the two clubs have had with Newcastle getting the better of them, you wondered how Arsenal going to respond. But I thought they were good on the ball. They were obviously good from set pieces. And I think what impressed me the most realistically was the depth that they had and in fairness the physicality that they can offer as well. You know, Arsenal are the team that can go up to St. James's park and not be bullied. And I made a point of that throughout the game. From Yokerez up top to the guys at centre half, you know, to even a goalkeeper that commands his six yard box very well from set pieces. So I was very, very impressed because at times, you know, you thought it's going to come from this set piece. But they had one or two moments with like really good bits of play from some really good footballers. And from my perspective, obviously Newcastle have lost and there's a couple of moments where maybe Nick Pope would want to redo it. The fact is Nick Pope was the best player for Newcastle on a day when they were playing at home. So I think that says a lot about the nature of the game itself. And Arsenal kept going. They kept going, they kept going. And yeah, it feels like they're deserved winners. And to win it that late in a game, which you feel you do deserve, was great. But I've just got to mention one thing. I do have some Arsenal friends that think there's a conspiracy against them with refereeing and stuff. But I didn't hear them after that. Gabriel. Potential handball. It seemed to fall silent at that point. So if they want to come forward and discuss that, please let me know whenever you can, guys.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah, I mean Nick Pope might want to redo that kick up field where he basically just gave it back to Arsenal. Just think, oh mate, don't do that. I thought Eze and Rice particularly will were brilliant in this game.

[Will Unwin]

Yeah, I mean Declan Rice going forward has, you know, been very good for a long time, but also seems to be very settled in central midfield. A bit deeper maybe at times. But that short corner at the end where I mean I'm nicking a bit of Joe hart here of 97% of corners from Arthur soon this season have been direct. But to see that in all the pressure of football that sort of shows the difference that you have in terms of mentality that you can see different things when others aren't reacting. When you can see the opposition are asleep. And also essay was asleep originally writing about half a second earlier. Then it had to sort of somehow maybe whistle to Eze to get his attention. The special Gooner whistle or something. But this is it and the difference and being able to be on top of it at 90 odd minutes. And as a. You know I was at Port Vale last week and Eze scored his first goal and I think that wasn't a great performance overall. But given the confidence to show that he is an Arsenal player and things like that and just constant threat that pushed you know 60 possession against Newcastle was really good and say they should have had more goals. I think they're really settling now. And that confidence boost of a couple of late goals against City against Newcastle in difficult matches really going to be a confidence boost to individuals and as a team unit. And you know you look at yesterday bring you know Odegaard coming on to change the dynamic. Mourinho changing the attacking dynamic. Really good options that are changing games which is key. I mean I think for Newcastle a little bit unlucky with Livramento's injury where you're having to change your defense again when you don't want to. But yeah Arsenal thoroughly deserve to take all the points.

[Max Unwin]

And that header from Marino Barry is just perfect, isn't it?

[Barry Glendenning]

Yes. What was it big Ron used to say he gave it the eyebrows. Raul Jimenez scored a similarish one for Fulham as well. And they're. They're a lot more difficult than they look. As someone who has a fine repertoire of headers in. In my locker as. As everyone knows. But yeah to. To steer it in inside the far post from that position is difficult. I think Nick Pope going wide but.

[Max Unwin]

I don't think he'd have got it. I don't think he reckon right because it's so perfectly placed I think.

[Barry Glendenning]

But whether he thought it was going wide or not, he didn't get it. And it was a fine. A fine header.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah. Yeah. And actually just looking at Marino you say give it the eyebrows. He's very hirsute in that area. When he's older he will be like Norman Lamont. The Gabrielle header as well is classic Arsenal. Nadum isn't. There's so much going on his run to get a yard on Dan Berners excellent. Saliba just getting you know Tonali just sort of loses him and he's just. He occupies Pope and it's sort of so well Choreographed amidst the chaos.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah, it really is. But, you know, as we were talking about that Marino header, I was going to mention, like, the quality of the delivery as well, because as somebody trying to defend a set piece, the sort of. The flatter the ball is, the less your chances are of being able to affect it. If you're in the wrong position to start with, like, some of the higher ones, you can make an adjustment and so on, but when the ball is that flat and it goes to the right person, there's not much you can do.

[Max Unwin]

Do you think Rice is so good that he's putting it on Marino's head there, or is there some sort of. I'm just getting it in an area not to.

[Nadim Manuha]

He's good enough to be able to do that, but I don't think he's so specific that we put it onto his eyebrow. Let's just say that. You know what I mean? I think it's a great ball into a great area that his players going to be in. But even say, for example, for the second goal, Nick Pope has, you know, been great for the majority of the game. He'd made that mistake in our opinions about him trying to kick the ball long to start a counter attack, that thirst to try and find the winner instead of like. In fact, you know, let me call out what it is. Sometimes goalkeepers are on a different sort of like, feel to the rest of the players, because the rest of the players have been suffering for about half an hour. You've been running around, chasing people at times chasing shadows, throwing your body on the line. You're exhausted. Goalkeeper gets it. And he's seen a Langer on, because, you know, he's a new player. Oh, this is our chance to win. Listen, as a defender there, I just say, please just lay down. Please just lay down on top of the ball. We don't need this. But, yeah, so he's trying. In some ways, it's almost as if he's tried to make up for it by coming to sort of be commanding from that set piece. But again, the ball delivery is so flat that if. If he's not in the right position to start with, he's never going to be in the right position at the end. And I think Saliba does a very good job. And this is, I think, one of the reasons why Arsenal are so good at these set pieces and some of these other teams now, because it's the delivery. There are people who are going to get their head to the ball. People are going to be disrupting Other people and around the ball and people, most importantly, who disrupt the timing of the goalkeeper. So now Gabriel can head the ball into the middle of the goal and it makes perfect sense. So everybody doing their job from those set pieces, what makes them really dangerous, especially when it's in, you know, the like 96 minute or whatever it is, because you've dealt with so many to that point, but it's a reminder, you just need one. And Arsenal, in fairness to them, they don't lose that belief from those set pieces, throwing kicks, everything, they'll put it on you over and over and over and over and over. And as we saw, you know, it only takes one sort of one slip, one mix up and they'll reap the rewards. And yeah, I guess it's definitely what they deserve. But also to go on to what Will said, that injury to Livermento was a. Was a massive deal, you know, for him. Having to see him getting stretchered off, having been somebody, I think was a couple of years ago had a serious knee injury as well. You wonder what that's going to mean for him for Newcastle and so on. Because his versatility, playing right, left or wherever it was going to be, all of a sudden, with all due respect to him, did we ever think we'd see Dan Byrne playing left wing back against Arsenal? Probably not. So, yeah, that definitely had its impact in the game. But yeah, to go to Arsenal, the belief was there, the set piece setup was there and everyone continued to do the jobs that were required of them, from the delivery to the header to the blocking until the moment. So I guess it's what they deserve.

[Max Unwin]

To decision corner. I mean, Jared Gillett was being chased around the pitch so much, it was like a man trying to get away from some V's. It was just there. It was just relent. Everything. Every time something happened, they both players would be in his face. And I think Will, I think they're all right, aren't they? The Gokares penalty. Pope gets a touch. Volta Mater goal is not a foul on Gabriel. The Gabriel handball, I must admit, I was like, I hate those handballs. I also don't want Arsenal to win, but. So I don't mind this one being given, but it does take that deflection, right, which is really hard to see. So I just sort of think Var and the ref between them got it all right.

[Will Unwin]

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone who looked at the penalty, first of all for Stonewaller, no chance Pope's done anything to affect that. But yeah, he got, he got A little touch that was imperative, obviously, still took him out, which, you know, nice touch for the goalkeeper in the end. Cheers you up. And then the handball, I mean, you've gone to this later, but Matt Cash as well, you know, sort of similar things where it's just no one's doing that deliberately. So I really hate when handballs are given for these sort of blocks.

[Nadim Manuha]

It's.

[Will Unwin]

I agree completely, the most irritating thing. And then, I mean, the Gabrielle attempt to win a foul off, that is just pathetic. And me. And hopefully the upside to Var now is that maybe for those decisions, the referee a bit. Be a bit more conservative and go, well, leave. Well, I mean, leave it and say if it is a foul, VR or do it afterwards, because it just looks soft and it was. And he was just trying to win it. And there's, you know, plenty of other occasions, you know, maybe. Maybe they need the referee from forest just to. To save them for. For diving and things like that. But yeah, I think a lot of those decisions were. I don't know, but it's sort of 60, 40, some of them. You'd always side with a ref, I think. And that's the important thing for Gillett, that it might not be 100% either way. There's a little bit of nuance, etc. But yeah, got them all right. And big calls as well, obviously, when once you've given a penalty and changing your mind, to actually have the conviction when it's not clear to everyone potentially to do that, I mean, fair play to him.

[Barry Glendenning]

Will says that Pope took Gyokerez out and I think the thing is he didn't. And that's why it shouldn't have been a penalty, because people are comparing what happened yesterday to the Robert Sanchez won Chelsea the week before, but they're completely different challenges. Joe Hart explained it very well on Match of the Day. Pope got the ball, planted his foot, so Gyokras ran into his leg and went over. There was no active aggression on Pope's part, whereas the same cannot be said for Robert Sanchez the previous week. So I. I thought it was a penalty at first as well. I think everyone did, but the. Ultimately the correct decision was raised. I'd have a slight issue with Var re refereeing the game, which we've been assured wouldn't happen. And it is happening all the time. It happened quite a lot over the weekend, but I don't think it's as much of a problem if they get the decision right ultimately.

[Max Unwin]

Hmm. We'll get to that. Man United Sending off. I mean, the, you know, the Man United penalty in a bit. Nadem.

[Nadim Manuha]

Barry. I had something to say, but Barry's made a point there which I think needs to be referenced. Like, I think the vast majority of us just didn't see that touch from Nick Pope. So the video system referee has actually shown us something that we would have needed to discuss because that's the, you know, that's the type of incident where, say, there'll be director somewhere for sky or whomever who sees that says, oh, let's have a discussion about that afterwards. If you would have missed it and say, oh, who's going to speak to Howard Webb? Or what's Dermot going to say on Monday? This, that and the other, blah, blah, blah. But I think in the end, like, that's. I think that ends up being the right decision according to the letter of the law. Especially when the referee's like, still got his microphone on and says, no, no, he got the ball first. And then the man. Do you know, as he was getting towards the. Towards the play. But I will say as well, I don't think Nick Pope even knew he got the ball, you know, because to check his sort of, like, behavior after the penalty's been given, he's looking like, God's sake, what have I done here? Luckiest man going. And to talk about the handball as well. I think this is quite a sane podcast, but I also believe that the views that we've expressed are probably in the minority over the majority, you know, because I think there's. From what I've heard, I don't know if it's anecdotal, a lot of people still say that's 100% a handball. Because it, like, this is the argument that kills me. Like, completely finishes me off. Like, why is his hand there anyway? I'm like, well, why is it not there?

[Max Unwin]

Oh, don't get me. Don't get me started. Nadam. I don't have enough time because football has changed so much that. That is. Now people see that as a handball, but none of them should be handballs. But, like, we'll get to the Matty Cash one. And Marco Silva referenced a Fulham one that they conced because it's impossible to be totally consistent in these. Is that arm raised or not raised? Is that a natural position? Not. None of them should be penalties.

[Barry Glendenning]

Zero.

[Max Unwin]

And if you have to. If you have to. If you want to make it a free kick, make it a free kick, because A, they're fun and B, that's not that's not such a big punishment because Gabriel doesn't deserve to be penalised for a penalty for that. Matty Cash doesn't either. But a free kick, I'm with it. It's fun. But that will never change because it's. That will never happen. Because it's a good idea. And Infantino. No, not Infantino. This isn't his fault, but probably is. La Killina and David Ellery, don't listen to these good ideas.

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean, we said on the pod we did after the first round of Fixtures of the Season, there were several of these handball issues and we said, this is going to be a problem throughout the season because no one understands the handball law and it is being a problem and will continue to be a problem. And I don't see how that problem can be solved.

[Max Unwin]

I just solved it.

[Will Unwin]

People aren't listening.

[Max Unwin]

People aren't listening to this sane podcast, as Naom said. Anyway, well done. Yes, well done to Arsenal. It was a very good win and it wasn't cowardly. And they did attack. So, you know, congratulations to you. Let's go to Selhurst Park. Crystal palace beat Liverpool 2 1. They were brilliant in this game. If not for Alisson and the woodwork, well, they would have been three or four up by half time, I think. So they completely deserve that winner. When Chiesa scored, you're like, I can't believe it. But it was brilliant for palace and it was brilliant for Nketiah.

[Will Unwin]

Yeah, I mean, Crystal palace just trying to give Liverpool a taste of their own medicine this season. I mean, it's someone that had seen a lot of those late wins for Liverpool. I mean, four out of the last five games I've been to have resulted in injury time goals that have affected the result and a lot of rewrites and you know, they say nurses have it tough, but sometimes think of football journeys. We're out there, we're out there on the front line. But yeah, I mean, absolutely incredible. I mean, 18 games unbeaten. Mateta, if you look at sort of the evolution of the striking position somewhere, that sort of pace, physicality, but also the composure to finish from inside, outside the box, I think he's probably the most underrated striker in Europe at the moment. Just of everything that he brings to the game. Honestly think he's that good and he's a confidence player, as all strikers are. And he's really on it at the moment and has been on it since Glasner turned up. I mean, wherever, wherever Mateta goes next, Glasner has To go with him. I suspect they've got a very well disciplined system. Everyone knows what they're doing within that team. There's no messing about. All playing for one. Nketiah, who probably hasn't really done much since he's arrived at palace, always showed great promise at Arsenal and loan moves.

[Barry Glendenning]

And things like that agent in Kessia.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah, yeah.

[Will Unwin]

Genius from Arsenal. This if this going to get them the title by. By a point. But what if you know what a finish at the end. Composure, quality and you know, say, talk about confident strikers needing those moments just to kickstart something.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah.

[Will Unwin]

And for palace to show that having gone down, a lesser team would have probably just accepted the point at that stage. But to go back to show again that you can create something and Liverpool fell asleep, let's be honest, in case you got a bit of space. But yeah, incredible for palace. Incredible what they're doing. It'd be interesting to see how they manage things with the European games coming up, if they can get that balance because I'm not sure the squad's as deep as it could be. I think it was against Liverpool. They had the same start in 11, apart from Jeremy Pinot in for Eze from the FA cup final. It shows great consistency if you consider the am of turnover in players at Premier League clubs this summer. So they got that consistency. So yeah, it'd be interesting to see if they can balance it perfectly. Europe maybe. Maybe being in the Conference League might help them a bit with lesser quality opposition. But Steve Parish might not agree.

[Max Unwin]

I loved how Anketia was like, this is what I do when the ball first went in and then after the var check, his real emotions came out because that weight was agonizing and God, it was so tight. Naden, what. What did palace manage to do? It's a stretch to say they blew Liverpool away, but they were really much, much better. What did they do that no one else has managed to do?

[Nadim Manuha]

It's a great question.

[Max Unwin]

Thank you so much.

[Nadim Manuha]

We've seen palace beat Liverpool. Is it two of the last three times or is it three times in a row? Because they beat them in the community shield, didn't they? Obviously overall from the penal shootout, but palace as a side, they're a team that are very, very comfortable, like absorbing pressure. You know, you can go and go up against them, but they have the belief that they can stand there and they don't. It's like they don't get bored of it. But then you know full well that they've got a Massive transition in them that will put you under pressure because I think it was a year ago when they played, I think it was City or something like that. Glasner was talking about how his side are like top in the league for sprints and so. And you think, well, how would that really work out when a team is always in a low block or it's because everybody goes when they need to go. So the way that you play against them, like they frustrate you and they almost drag you to a point to where you think you have to commit more bodies forward, but that's playing into their hands and their belief, commitment. And you know, you mentioned the same side being picked again. That again is a huge strength. I think at times we get drawn into the conversation about you need depth, you need depth, you need to be able to rotate, so on and so forth. For them, they're like the exact opposite of that point. You know exactly who the player is going to be, you know exactly how they're going to play. And they know that with those around them as well. And the confidence and belief that they have is, is very much there. So going up against Liverpool, they've beaten Liverpool recently. They've beaten Man City in the FA Cup Final. They've beaten loads of teams. This unbeaten run is remarkable, by the way. It's absolutely remarkable that they're on. So they have no doubts about their style of play being robust enough to be able to get wins against anybody. And the chances they create against Liverpool side who this season, you know, as Will said, they've had a lot of late wins, but their late wins have felt a bit different to say like Arsenal's late win yesterday because it didn't necessarily come with a great performance. So you knew at times Liverpool obviously had the right place for those big moments, but they're also getting lucky with one or two things. But against a side like palace, maybe you weren't going to have that look and they didn't have it on the day. So you had to give Palace a ton of credit. They definitely deserve it. And to go back a year to be a historian, they didn't win their first eight games of last season. This is like a remarkable thing in my mind because I remember thinking, oh, our palace is going to go down last year and then fast forward a year, they're in Europe and they're the most confident and just, you know, settled side arguably in like the whole league. So yeah, fair play to them. And are we going to talk about Liverpool or do we just do it from the palace standpoint.

[Max Unwin]

I was just going to say Nadam, is it a stretch to call yourself a historian by going back a year? I don't. I mean I'm not.

[Nadim Manuha]

Listen, within this very moment in 2025, it is. I am very much a historian. I'm very much a historian for saying that. Yes.

[Max Unwin]

I suppose as someone who potentially host a podcast specifically about yesterday actually a year eons. It's eons ago, isn't it?

[Nadim Manuha]

This is ancient history. Talking about a year ago with Glasgow palace.

[Max Unwin]

You can do some Liverpool of course.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah. The Liverpool thing. I'll just be. I'll talk about Slot Slot's comments after the game about one player decided to be more offensive than, you know, thinking about defense, not taking the draw and so on. Why mention one player but then not say the player's name?

[Max Unwin]

For people that don't know, just give us the context.

[Nadim Manuha]

You were saying the reason they lost the game is because in the defensive moment, one player was thinking about trying to win the game. So he's trying to go forward. And that's what left the gap for Nketiah to score the goal. Which then meant that Liverpool lost the game. So it's a really specific thing to mention without being specific about who the player was. It's almost like he sent you on this mission to try and figure out who could I possibly be talking about. But it is Frimponger at the back post and in fairness to him, I think he did get back in position. So it wasn't like he was like at the halfway line or anything like that. But I was doing show yesterday and someone made a good point as well. The goal comes because Kirkes decides not to kick the ball forward with his right foot and instead kick out of his left for a throw in. With all due respect, in the 90 whatever minute playing against Palace, a throw in defended is not what you need to be doing anywhere in your sort of defensive third. So it's a series of areas consecutive errors that lead to goals. Not just that moment from the player that he wants to name, wants to mention but remain unnamed. I'm not really on board with that. I don't see the angle at all.

[Will Unwin]

Sure.

[Max Unwin]

And I mean he did sign Frimpong. He should know he's quite attacking.

[Nadim Manuha]

That's the thing.

[Max Unwin]

It's great for the title. A race Barry, isn't it? We said it on Thursday. It's great that you know, they don't go on this massive march and now people can sort of see the potential holes in Liverpool.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, I think the form of Ibrahima Konate is a concern for them. I think Arsenal have had a more challenging set of fixtures to get the season started. What are we now? Five, six games in, six games in? I think Arsenal have had the more challenging fixtures and they're only two points behind. So I, I won't lie, I, I expected them to slip up against Newcastle, but they got the job done and that's a massive win for them. And if they hadn't capitalized on the defeat of Liverpool the previous day, I think it would have been very deflating for, for all concerned with Arsenal. But, but they, they did capitalize eventually got there in the end and they're, they're in a very good position.

[Max Unwin]

They are. I tell you who isn't, that's Manchester United. And we'll start part two with them.

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[Max Unwin]

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Candid says maybe I'm jumping the gun here but are you United in crisis? Brentford 3 Manchester United 1 Look, a Manchester United defeat will is no longer surprising. We get pushback for talking about every man United loss like it's a huge story which happens a lot. I don't know if this one, this one feels significant or it just feels mad. You know that Amarim hasn't won back to back games since he got there in 12 months and and they were just comprehensively the second best team here.

[Will Unwin]

It's almost as if Manchester United are now a very mid table team and that they win games at home against your Burnleys and your Chelsea's with 10 men and they lose against Brenford and teams like that, because the Oats teams are better than them. Because United, with that squad, etc will finish about 12th. And that might be the stage that we're at with United. Must say, on positives, I really like that kit.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah.

[Will Unwin]

Black shirt, yellow shorts, yellow socks. That is lovely.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah, but no, it's not.

[Will Unwin]

The thing is with I'm a rim, he keep, you know, we all talk about the system and the formation. He's like, oh, when we lose, it's a system. When we win, no one mentions it when they lost. And the whole point in this system is that you overload in certain areas. At no point did I see any of that or have done really since he's arrived. The system doesn't seem to be working and any great coach would be able to adapt to the plays he's got and maybe tweak it, but that doesn't happen. Instead you sort of end up with these mediocre performances on repeat defensively. I mean, shocking the first goal and the second. I mean, how on earth that ball is just. Let's go over the top, Chase score. And how on earth Thiago is allowed to chest the ball down for the second is absolutely mesmerizing. But I mean, I'm not a foreign Premier League defender, so maybe someone else on the panel can't discuss that. No, no. Nadam's crying, sorry.

[Max Unwin]

But it looked like, do you know, it looked like Nadim had fallen asleep. I thought he couldn't, he couldn't face another discussion. He couldn't face another discussion about 3, 4, 2, 1 and whether it were.

[Will Unwin]

The problem is that obviously there's not much coming out of United about negativity from rim. Because, I mean, a few, the usual problems, who can replace him, blah, blah, Southgate. Only if Southgate replaced him.

[Nadim Manuha]

Who?

[Will Unwin]

One of the people Ashworth was considering, who they then sacked after they got Amorim. The problem for United is if they do sack hammer him, which I think is unlikely, then Jason Wilcox position really should be under a lot of pressure for backing him, for doing the recruitment that has left the squad, you know, very top heavy, not sort of dealing with the problems in defensive midfield. And so Wilcox can't really turn around and go we need to sack him, because he then has to look at himself and go, oh, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm a slight problem as well. And so the problems may just continue for as long as as Amarim wants to stay around.

[Nadim Manuha]

Is anyone surprised they lost to Brentford after winning the game last week? Is anybody? Hands up if you're surprised. No. Hands up.

[Will Unwin]

Okay.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah. I think we're in this really funny place with United to where, like, you know, when they win two games in a row, they will celebrate it. Something I never thought I'd see associated with United under any of their managers in the Premier League era. So it is strange. And I think they have a squad that's capable of being, you know, being able to do it. But as Will was saying, some of the defending, some of those moments, like, to be honest, the one that really sent me the most, and it's disappointing to have to say this about somebody who literally has represented the country so well for so many years. But that Harry Maguire mistake from the first goal, where Thiago's running behind, one of the first things you get told from a very young age, if there's no pressure on the ball, you cannot try and step up. Jordan Henderson had as long as he needed to. And I think we just saw the week before with Brentford, I think possibly against Chelsea, where he played a long ball through to.

[Max Unwin]

He did the same.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah, I think with Charlotte, to score or something. So that's something that they're going to be looking for. So to try and step up there, but then also then have to try and chase somebody back when you're already going the wrong direction. That's not great. And I think some of those individual moments are essentially what's going to be costing them. And also the mystique's not there anymore. You know, teams have a genuine belief that they will get points against United, whether it's home, whether it's away, it doesn't matter. Whoever's playing well, these are the flaws, we'll try and play into it. And yeah, I was looking at the fixtures before. I was not falling asleep. So they've got Sunderland at home before the international break, which. That feels like a trap game in itself, doesn't it? Because if Sunderland win that, it's chaos. But then also like United should win that. And then you go international break and talk about it for at least five days before England play. But the fixtures after that, Liverpool away, Brighton at home. Forest away. Spurs away. Everton at home. Don't see two in a row coming there either, to be honest. Which is somewhat of an alarming state of affairs for where United are right now.

[Max Unwin]

You're going to reference Baz, the guy who still hasn't cut the haircut guy. Yeah, his is five games, the poor bastards.

[Barry Glendenning]

They win those five in a row, that's for sure.

[Max Unwin]

Look, Thiago's Got five and six. Like his finish was brilliant for the first goal and I loved Barry the third goal like the speed of the break. Yarmou look is so good at it and just the way and against him kicked that ball so hard and it went everywhere like an old plastic football and then ended up right in the middle of the goal.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, it was brilliant counterattack weirdly made him has highlighted Harry Maguire's mistakes and Amarim is one of the He's a coach who regularly takes off central defenders during games. It was Harry Maguire. He took off and left Matthias de Ligt on. I thought Matthias Delick had an absolute nightmare of a game. He was so bad. And yet it was Maguire who's replaced by Lenny Yoro. The counter. Brentford break at speed. Yarmouluk plays the ball to Matthias Jensen who advances. I think he kind of just shot because Matthias de Ligt was backing off him and he didn't really have any other options and he just thought ah, to hell with it, I'll have a pop. And yes, it's fizzed and swerved and swazed its way past by hinder but for all the the movement of the ball it still went into the middle of the goal by who had an alright game by his admittedly not great standards. Probably should have kept it out.

[Max Unwin]

Jon. It's an interesting point Nadin, that I think Michael Richards made on Match of the Day. Just about the number of not formation changes that stays the same. We know that. But the number of different positions players are playing them a taking centre backs off, which feels weird because not many managers do it. But also, you know, you're left center back, then you're left wing back, then you might be right center back or you're playing in the 10, then you're wing back, then you're back in the 10. And so you can't get any rhythm right. Even if you are able to play all those positions if you're only doing one for 10 minutes and then one for 15 minutes. I know he's chasing the game, but that's just. That seems quite obvious.

[Nadim Manuha]

I'm in an interesting position here because I may have to go against that take.

[Max Unwin]

Okay. No, please do. I will say, Nadam, you corrected me incorrectly about Xavi Simmons position. When I looked at the number of times he'd played left and in the 10.

[Nadim Manuha]

So we called him a winger. Well, you called him a winger.

[Max Unwin]

I'll check the test. I don't know if that'd make sense.

[Nadim Manuha]

As a historian. As a historian we can do this if you want.

[Max Unwin]

Sorry, Professor Noah. Anyway, do carry on, Derek. Do carry on.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah. In regards to United and the changes, firstly, like the defensive changes just don't feel right because as a defender playing in a game, usually for subs happening, you never need to look to the side to see if it's you that's coming off. Because usually if you're coming off, you're either injured or you're having an absolute horror show. But to do it, the manager obviously thinks there needs to be some level of freshness back there. But I would tend to disagree because, you know, those guys. Could you imagine, like, he gets to like, the 60th minute and Van Dijk's coming off for. I don't know who they've got available now.

[Max Unwin]

Gomez or someone.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah. To try and freshen up the defense. It's the type of stuff that you just don't see. But Edent generally believes in it. And it's funny to think that given the fact that there are three defenders back there already, do you really need to be having the rest and so on. I don't get that part. And also in terms of the change in positions and so on, I think coming towards the end of a game when you're chasing it like all cards are on the table, the manager is going to do whatever. It's not the true structured nature of a game in itself and he's just trying to do something different. So I don't think it's a case of needing to get settled because at this point it's more or less just the kitchen sink being thrown. And if you happen to be playing left wing, you happen to be playing left wing. You know, we've seen times for United where Harry Maguire's playing up front. Is he disappointed when he only plays 10 minutes up front instead of 20 because he doesn't have enough time to establish himself in that position? Probably not. So, you know, it is what it is. It serves its purpose in that moment. And I don't think the players coming off, if they lose will be disappointed that they get longer to stand in a certain position, because they probably had that for the previous 60, 70 minutes. But as you said, some of those substitutions and the time in which he does it, they might seem very clear to the manager, Amarim, but I think for other people it's very much feels a little bit unconventional, which isn't great when you're losing, you know, one in two games, whatever it is, that the run that he's on at this moment.

[Max Unwin]

Just before we end this and we haven't praised Brentford enough and our apologies. Nathan Collins should have been sent off. Barry and Var took four minutes and everyone can see it's a red card.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah. Brentford were 21 up. Nathan Collins gave away a penalty by tugging Brian and boom was shirt. It was a clear denial of goal scoring opportunity. The ref awarded the penalty correctly, didn't send him off. Then Var decided to intervene and see if he should be sent off. So Fernandez is hanging around waiting to take the penalty. Takes four minutes to arrive at the wrong decision and the decision they arrived at was it wasn't a denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity because Mbuemo wasn't in control of the ball. How could he be in control of the ball? He had a big Irishman hanging out at the back of his shirt. He couldn't get to the ball properly so that was ridiculous. And then some excellent shithousery from Keith Andrews who I think this is a statement win for him, even though it's only against a bad Manchester United team. You know, he's a young coach trying to build a plane in midair or rebuild it. He decides, oh, we'll delay it even further by sending on some substitutes. So Fernandez had five or six minutes to think about what he was going to do with the penalty. Took a bad one and Keeving Kelleher saved it.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah. To Stamford Bridge. Chelsea won Brighton three. Worth saying Will, if you're a Brighton fan. Apart from perhaps Paul palace winning at Chelsea, a team have taken 15 players and staff since Todd Boehly came in. The joy in that away end, you know, when they score in the 92nd and then the hundred minute, they looked so happy.

[Will Unwin]

Yeah, the business of football, sort of desperation to copy models from elsewhere and see how it works. It's an interesting take. I mean it shows on the pitch that it's not always the straightforward solution, as Manchester United and possibly Chelsea at times will tell you, but, but again, Chelsea two weeks on in a row where they've given the opposition a massive advantage. I don't, I appreciate split second decisions but I always think that it's better to have 11 men on and be a goal, obviously a leveler, but in previous week maybe a goal behind, but I don't understand why you can't make that decision. Think, well, just, just let him through. We'll see what happens. And then after that change, the game complete. You know, Chelsea dominated, you know, 60 possession and sort of went the other way. Brighton, Danny Welbeck, the master last season was the first time he'd scored 10 in a season. He got a bit of criticism at the start from the manager this year and has come back and started getting the goals. A veteran of the game and happy to take the criticism and come back. Great finishes. I like De Kuiper at Club Bruges as well and so I'm really pleased that he's slotted in quite quickly. It's always a bit of a step up from the Belgian league, but he's looked really good. So yeah, really good for Brighton again. Well, you know, they've made sort of proactive changes to their hierarchy this summer as well recently. And if club always sort of progressing and moving in the right way. So really pleased. I'm really pleased, you know, Chelsea solution to throw money at things. And a lot of talk now about Maresca's job being a bit in doubt, which after a couple of defeats. Big game against Benfica this week, playing.

[Max Unwin]

Jose's Benfica as well. Which makes it even more fun, doesn't it? I mean, Welbeck gets better and better. How good will he be in 20 years time? That header was so good across from Minte, who is a really exciting player, isn't he? Do you think the vibes are off at Chelsea? Because as Will said, Nadam, they were just so dominant in this game and they had a lot of injuries as well. You know, we've got a lot of defensive issues. Stefana toys in Levi Coldwell as well. Obviously Cole Palmer's not there and they were cruising. As cruising as you can be at 1 nil before that red card.

[Nadim Manuha]

I don't know if it's the case. The vibes are off, but, you know, the last. I think it's the last three results haven't been anywhere near what they would have hoped for. I believe, you know, losing to Bayern in the manner which they did, you know, like Chelsea, are they back in the Champions League? But it's not like the Chelsea that we know. It's like a younger version of Chelsea. Almost feel like a newcomer in there as such. And then that game against United where so many people would have fancied them to go and get a result, you know, all of a sudden you're on the back foot because of a red card. And then this game at the weekend, to be playing at home, I think that's the. That's what makes it feel worse because those other two are away. But to be at home and to be dominating a game of football and then to just be swarmed upon by, you know, what is essentially your feeder club, almost was a bit. It's a bit awkward for the 15 people I think you were probably talking about, from the staff to the players to, I don't know, whoever else is there, but I don't think the vibes are off. I think it's going to be a tougher stretch with key players being out, as you've mentioned, but they are still a still very good side, which is why they were dominating that game until the happen. It's not to say that Brighton couldn't have had a comeback because they've done that against City and probably others in so far this season, but to lose in that manner, to lose late as well and to lose multiple games in a row, it's not something that we associate with Chelsea when it comes down to patience over the last decade or so, even with these new owners. So I think Mareski is going to be feeling the pressure and needs to find something different. But unfortunately, even if he runs out of players, he still can't go in that special dressing room and bring in the likes of Sterling De Sassi. They're very much unavailable, aren't they? So you just have to wait till January.

[Will Unwin]

And Mareska's allowed Brighton to take advantage because he was just. Against United it was defensive substitutions very quickly. Against Brighton again, defensive substitutions very quickly to then just say, well, right, we're going to try and protect the lead which against top class opposition for quite a long period of time, you know, the weekend again. I just think you've causing yourself a lot of problems when you've got quality attacking players, you actually can't even with 10 men put a bit of pressure back and I think trying to absorb it all is just so difficult at the top level for that period, 10 minutes, fine. But for that length of time I thought it was quite negative for Maresca.

[Max Unwin]

Yeah. Another interesting non penalty when Gusto kicked Minter in the face and it wasn't given, but it'll even itself out, I'm sure. An interesting question from Gordon who says, are some managers jobs, for example Chelsea and Man United, becoming too toxic? A Glasner or an Iriola would be crackers to go to United, wouldn't they? I mean, the same barrier could potentially be said at West Ham, although on a slightly sort of slight smaller scale, I guess. They sacked Graham Potter on Saturday, apparently they decided to do it two weeks ago. They waited till he'd done a press conference, as far as I could tell, about swapping his face with the one pound Fish man and others and then sacked him. And then Nuno was already taking training on the Saturday afternoon. West Ham can confirm grand Potter's left the club. Results and performances over the course of the second half of last season and the start of this season have not matched expectations. It's hard to disagree with that. Potter said. I'm incredibly disappointed to be leaving West Ham, particularly without being able to achieve what we set out to achieve at the start of our journey in East London. I do acknowledge the results have not been good enough up to now. I mean, it's no surprise, is it, Barry, that Potter has been fired?

[Barry Glendenning]

No, absolutely not a surprise. The owners and the hierarchy at West Ham had to do something. Not least cause they're taking a lot of heat themselves from fans. Arguably more heat than Potter was. They have to be seen to be being proactive. So I'm not surprised Pottery has been sacked. I am surprised that Nuno has agreed to take the job because I think if he waited, something better would come along. Having said that, West Ham's biggest issue in terms of conceding goals is they just cannot defend corners. I think that's something Nuno will be able to sort out reasonably quickly. He may even have sorted it out by tonight, Monday night when they go to play Everton. And if he can do that, I've every confidence he'll do a pretty good job at West Ham. He can't do a much worse one than Potter. I think Potter was averaging exactly a point a game over nine months, so I am surprised Nuno took the job. But I. I suspect he will be pretty decent.

[Max Unwin]

The players care, Naden. I mean, as simple as if the manager likes you, you care, and if they don't, they don't. Or if players go, we're not doing very well, it'd be good to get someone new in. They're just like. I mean, is the WhatsApp group just like, oh, well, here's a new person?

[Nadim Manuha]

Do players care? I think the ones who are closer to him would care. But I think in terms of the general feel around the place, like, you know, when you're on the pitch and you're seeing fans leave the stadium quite early because the team's not doing so well. And maybe it's the tactics, maybe it's the training, you know, you can't. You can't escape those things because, you know, for us, like, we watch them once a week or whatever, like they're training together for this whole time so they know whether the vibes are good or they're bad because sometimes they will leak into the training ground and when it feels like a chore to be coming into work, that's when, you know, managers probably needs to be changed and so on. So I think there will be some level of disappointment if they like him on a human level, but in terms of results, they're probably all aware of the business of football and how it can't stay that way. Because as well with fans and stuff, if a fan doesn't like a manager and they see a player, they'll probably tell the player they don't like the manager, which then puts the player in a position to. Where am I just going to argue for him saying, no, no, he's actually brilliant? Don't worry about the fact we're averaging a point a game and you guys are all leaving early, like everything's actually fine. I think you can read the situation, you can understand the critiques, the criticism, and you find out very early whether you think it's going to work or it's not. And unfortunately for Poster at West Ham, it just never seemed like it was going to be working from an early stage. Whether it's to do with, say, almost like a personality trait or the fact that they thought they'd bring excitement, but then they weren't really scoring many more goals, and defensively they felt just as bad as they were before in the Lapetegi. So as a player, you care a little bit in terms of the person, because you do know them and you probably wish them well if they've given you the opportunity to play. But then also, you probably care more about the person that's going to be coming in, because what does this mean for you? Because now you're talking about your future if Nuno comes in and everyone's like, oh, maybe Nuno will be playing really defensive and he'll hit us in transition. He likes this type of profile of player. How does this affect me? And as you said, that was an interestingly quick turnaround of manager. Yeah, you don't really have much time to grieve the last person before saying, well, I need to make sure I turn up approximately an hour before training starts this week, because then you'll see. Look, this guy's really keen. He wants to do everything he can. Look at him. He's doing extra after training. Ooh, he loves it. Yeah, look at him. He's actually standing there doing a low block all by himself on the training pitch. That's my type of player, you know. So, yeah, the future person is more Important than the past, especially when the turnover is that quick.

[Max Unwin]

I can't remember if I said this at the live show or on the pod, Barry, so correct me if I did, but how does this affect me is exactly what you said when I told you I was about to become a father and I was moving to Australia. When I said exactly the same thing to Charlie Baker. He said, you'll be a great dad. That was his opening gambit. It's not really affected you too much, Barry.

[Barry Glendenning]

Well, to be fair, Max, you did show some video footage at the live show which proves you aren't a great dad. So you're in fact that you're anything but. And there's another story I won't tell, but could, which further cements the fact that you're a terrible father. So let's move swiftly along.

[Max Unwin]

What's the sec.

[Barry Glendenning]

What's the second one you lost your son?

[Max Unwin]

Oh, I lost him for a few minutes. It was quite terrifying. But, you know, I found him again. He went down a different alleyway. The descent will of Graham Potter is interesting, isn't it? Osterson's, Brighton. You know, your stock is so high. Chelsea, possibly England, then West Ham. It's sort of hard to know where he'll go next.

[Will Unwin]

After leaving Chelsea, he was sort of very nervous about his next job and he was heavily linked to Leicester and had long talked with Leicester and probably made the right decision not to go to Leicester, but got to a certain stage and thought, I'm going to have to take an available Premier League job here. And unfortunately for him, it was West Ham who. I mean, I think you'd read Jacob Steinberg's piece about how rudderless and desperately poorly run they've been for quite a long time. So it's not. Obviously plenty of it will be put down, Tim. But I think the sort of recruitment over the years has been terrible. They're still trying to recover from the Tim Steiden era of recruitment, where it's sort of square pegs, round holes and no real strategy. But, yeah, I think Potter might be tempted by the prospect of heading abroad now. He's seen the Premier League as ruthless, you know, and picking his club very, very carefully. He'll have time, he'll take his time and he won't rush into anything. I. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw him rock up somewhere a bit out of the way away from this Premier League madness that he's sort of come to. Probably irritate him a little bit, you know, I'm sure, he wouldn't have enjoyed being put off that press conference when he was getting sats and whatnot. So, yeah, it's a shame for him. Chelsea again went in. It was a bit strange place to be, lots of turnover in players, so trying to create a cohesive unit was difficult and didn't get time. West Ham, you know, some good players there, but lacking in key areas, and that's been a problem for him. And, you know, once things start going against you and the fans are going against you, it's hard to pull it back and I think he's found that. So, yeah, seems, you know, not dealt with him too much. But, yeah, seems like a nice enough guy, a thoughtful guy, so hopefully he can pick himself back up. I mean, you've seen how difficult it was for 10 HAG after leaving a big job. Again, he lasted four games, but, yeah, I think he might be a bit more careful and take something a bit out the way this time.

[Max Unwin]

Okay, that'll do for part two. With apologies to the rest of the games, we've got a lot to cram in, so we may rattle through.

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[Max Unwin]

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Fraser says, is Maxime Esteb the Frank Sinclair for the Generation Elf bar. I had to look it up. It's a vape juice or something like that. A brace of own goals that The Etihad City won 51 doesn't tell the whole story of the game. That scoreline, I think. Nadin, what was your own goal record like?

[Nadim Manuha]

Do you know what? I was clean as a whistle for the first, like seven years of my career. Then one happened and I couldn't have felt any lower. I was like, oh, my God. This is actually a horrendous feeling, though.

[Max Unwin]

And was it a shinna? What was it? What was your.

[Nadim Manuha]

It was at West Ham. Cross came into the box from a corner and I was marking someone and the two people ahead of me. Oh, as the ball's coming in, they've missed it. And then it's just dropped and just hit my knee and gone in it's a pinocch. Oh God. It was. What a horrendous feeling, honestly. Especially West Ham's gold scored by Sunderlands Daniel Manelsa. Oh my God, what a horrendous feeling, honestly.

[Max Unwin]

And did a teammate. Did a teammate like patronizingly say, you know you'll be all right?

[Nadim Manuha]

Do you know what those ones. What's worse? Being patted on the back or people looking like they just ignore you, just leave you to suffer by yourself. I feel like you just can't win in that situation. But I think I ended up scoring like maybe three in my career and they're all exactly the same balls just like ricocheting off you and going in and you're just wishing the earth would just like swallow you up, to be honest.

[Max Unwin]

Look at one one Will. This was a slightly tighter game, wasn't it? But City did run away with it it. So I. I don't know how back City are from this result.

[Will Unwin]

I think second half they just sort of clicked into Gmore. I mean Doku have an incredible season. Everything's sort of coming together with do one of those players where got all the talent but trying to put it all together in one cohesive plan as a footballer where he knows what he's doing next and also think now his teammates know what he's doing next. Which wasn't always the case in his early time at City and I think just City just clicked into gear a bit. Bit played a bit quicker and when you've got that amount of quality on the pitch and no offense to Burnley but they don't that these things will happen and especially when you know making a few mistakes. The worst mistake a Steph made was the flick on for the Harland goal.

[Max Unwin]

Oh yes. So good. One of you don't let it. One of you put a name on it.

[Will Unwin]

Their own goals are really unfortunate. That's just actually a massive up City. Yeah week by week obviously big change in dynamic from the performance at Arsenal and things. But yeah, I just think the quality on the pitch if City get into that rhythm that they showed in the second half a bit more say I'm going to the Monaco game this week and they should really beat Monaco. Not in the great place at the moment but I just think Haaland scoring repeatedly. Doku looking exciting. Obviously a few worries about Rodri but I think there are signs that it could be quite an exciting season for City now with everything in Savinho looking really good after his summer. Whereas he looked like he might be off Foden Getting back to his best after a pretty terrible year or, you know, looking like he's got potential to do that. So, yeah, nervously optimistic that you can have a really good season.

[Max Unwin]

Good for you. To Villa. That was patronizing. That was like helping someone to score an own goal. It didn't merit that, Will. It was a good answer. Villa 3, Fulham 1 really important win for Villa here, Barry. I mean for half an hour, Fulham and Josh King, not that one specifically, look like they were. Were tearing Villa apart.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, well, they were tearing Villa apart. Yes, they did and that's why it looked like that. Josh King's very exciting player. He's having a bit of a rough trot of it at the moment. He had his maiden Premier League goal chalked off, disallowed. I can't remember whether it was harsh or not, but it was. And he looked very crestfallen and disappointed. I think was ruled out by Var something or other. He's now been booked for simulation. 2. Two matches in a row and I thought the one yesterday was a bit unfair. It doesn't really matter, but it's something you don't want to get a reputation for.

[Max Unwin]

I thought it was a penalty.

[Barry Glendenning]

Did you?

[Max Unwin]

I mean, yeah. I mean, I know he goes the other way. You don't think so, Will? I mean, I know he doesn't need to start going down.

[Barry Glendenning]

I do think Martinez sort of hooked his ankle out from under him. So yeah, maybe it was a penalty. I don't. It certainly wasn't a dive. You can lose your balance, you can go down without it being simulation or without it being a penalty. I. I'd lean further towards being a penalty than simulation. But anyway, as I say, it is not something you want to get a reputation for because referees will be pre keeping an eye on you and predisposed not to give you the benefit of the doubt. We spoke about Raul Jimenez's goal already. Really good header. Then somebody Villa flick the switch and they got a much needed win. O Watkins got a confidence boosting goal. Morgan Rogers, having been the subject of some mockery and derision from his own fans during the week, got. He played well. John McGinn's pretty reliable. He scored a good goal and Emmy Buendia came off the bench and made a couple of good contributions. Interestingly, he replaced Harvey Ellert who did the square root of bugger all while he was on the pitch. So he hasn't hit his stride yet at Villa, but it's still early early doors, isn't it?

[Max Unwin]

Yeah, I mean there's nothing. Something so great as a fan, to score two goals so quickly because you're just still celebrating. It's like this. This could go on forever. This is so exciting. Billy says, is it time for Sunderland fans to dust off our passports? Yeah. They won 1 nil. Millet Forest. Former Sunderland hero Nader Manuha is here. Are you ready for the Europa League or the Champions League? I mean, a great victory. Slightly controversial goal.

[Nadim Manuha]

Yeah, I think the. As far as decisions that probably didn't need to be made this weekend, I think that one from the referee was probably right up there. But then in some ways, like I thought Forest were good overall, but also look how badly they defended the set piece. It's really interesting that there are four players at the back post surrounding one of ours. I wonder what could possibly be happening next. You know, you want to have a little sense for those moments, but, yeah, Sunderland doing well, it's something that, you know, I'm very, very happy with it and also I didn't expect it, with all due respect to them, the squad that I thought they were bringing up, I thought if they don't make a few signings here, I couldn't see them getting many points, to be honest. But instead they're like, they're robust, the goalkeeper's doing really well, the defense is solid, the midfield's got a great engine to it, they've got a good ability to score goals, they're good in transition and they've got depth like Traore coming off, coming on, rather, Broby coming on. It's not something that I thought we'd be seeing this season, but it's something that does make sense in the moment. So, yeah, I think they are probably going to win the league, probably the FA cup, definitely. And next year I'd imagine they'll be in that draw for the Champions League and so on. You know, the mega draw coming in at pot four. But Sunderland are, for now, anyway, all the way back. And I don't mind it at all because it seems like it makes sense, the points that they're getting, the way that they're playing. And it doesn't feel like a fluke, like it was a tough game going away to Nottingham Forest, but they played in a manner which they needed to. They've got someone in Xhaka who, you know, has got so much experience and even the way, like, listening to him talk after games is really good because he doesn't pretend it was something that it wasn't. They were really good, they suffered, but we're learning how to do this, we're learning how to do that. So if you can talk to the press like that, imagine how he talks to his teammates and brings out the best in them. So I'm all aboard the mackam train and hopefully they do something good in the derby as well. Well because then that could be like proper vibes through the roof, gonna win the league, gonna win it all type territory.

[Barry Glendenning]

Nadum, can I ask, most of the players who got Sunderland promoted aren't really getting much of a look in on the first team. Now will those who are still at the club be really pissed off over that or will they just accept that that is their lot in life?

[Nadim Manuha]

I think it depends how the manager spoken to them. I think if the manager hasn't said anything and they've been completely pulled away from it, then you would be really, really disappointed. Especially if like you can sense that there's not going to be any game time for you at all. So there will be a level of disappointment in there. But if they do have to go somewhere in January, they're coming from a place where like they're in the Premier League now, they're technically a Premier League player. So the options that they have could be better than say they would have had if they were still in the championship. So yeah, there's some disappointment that always will exist with people who, you know, help a side get promoted, for example. But then it's a tough argument to make that somebody and some of these players have never played in the Premier League before and haven't really played to the highest level before. If they're saying, well, I should be playing, I think the argument stands up in the championship, but probably doesn't in the Premier League, which is why they're unfortunately in the position that some of them are in.

[Max Unwin]

First one, Wolves won. Wolves so close to getting their first win. It is their first point of the season. It would have been, it would have been vintage Dr. Tottenham will but Joe Pollino, like Clark Kent, looks puny actually. Absolutely ripped when he takes his shirt off. Got an equalizer late on, probably a fair result. Tottenham were better in the first half, Wolves were better in the second.

[Will Unwin]

Yeah, I mean, I think you look at the positives of Wolves, that Pereira with zero points on the board changed things at half time really positively and it made a big difference. And you know, they deserve to score and you wouldn't have really criticized if they'd gone on to win it. You know, plays look like they're starting to settle the pro Made the point that you know they, they had a lot of players arrive late in the window. They went, played zero games, went off into actual duty and things like that. And so now is the point. A bit of confidence after the Everton win. You know Arias looks a good player defensively looking bit better. Some Johnson in net seems to be an improvement as well. So yeah really good for them. I mean and but for spurs not their greatest performance overall. A bit one dimensional at times. Really upset that the kudos goal was disallowed because that Berg file assist would have been absolutely incredible.

[Max Unwin]

So nice.

[Will Unwin]

But again you know you live and die by recruitment and getting Palina in. So many important contributions already this season, you know and if I was ripped like that I'd probably take a book in in the last minute after an equalizer so no, I was thinking, I.

[Max Unwin]

Was thinking you, you can't take your shirt off unless it's a winner, you know, get the ball, get back. There could be one more chance. He's missed the chance I think. Show you're ripped another time.

[Will Unwin]

Wait and see what he does when he scores a winner in the last minute.

[Max Unwin]

Well no, absolutely right. Balls out Pollinia. We look forward to that. Tuellon Road leads to Bournemouth too. Will, you were there as well. So tell us all about this game in 60 seconds and apologies because there weren't really any duds. Normally over a weekend there'll be a few duds. Not really any dud this weekend.

[Will Unwin]

90 minute equalizer from a bloke SC teenager scoring his first goal in the Premier League. So big moment.

[Barry Glendenning]

Another rewrite for you Will. I was out banging a beer tray with a soup ladle.

[Will Unwin]

Lead's really good, really physical. I think probably Premier League teams that have come up learning from the mistakes of Russell Martin so they can thank him for this. That trying to outplay opposition when you've got inferior plays isn't the best idea. Be tall, be physical, be robust, get in teams faces, make it as difficult as possible. Really hostile. Ellen Rose and Calvert Levin should have scored well, had three really good chances. Probably should have scored at least one in the first 20 minutes. So if he can get into a goal scoring frame of mind then I think Leeds got a really good chance of staying up. But Bournemouth kept going. Not their best game. A little bit disjointed, a little bit, a little bit slow at times but again that's because Leeds are at them and whatnot and four goals all from set pieces which is the modern game so you know, and Leeds just Learning those things as well. That the, the fine margins of, you know, switching off for those goals. The, the draft excluder with Brennan Aronson for the Semenya. Yes. Really don't put your shortest player as a draft excluder. So maybe he'll, he'll be out for that. But yeah, just, it was just little moments of fine margin from both sides. So yeah, really tight game. But yeah, I think Leeds will do well if they can keep that, that level of physicality and that level of aggression going because I think that can make a difference. You know, premedity level of. A lot of talks of tactics and whatnot but actually those sort of things do make a big difference. If, if you can make Ellen Road intimidating.

[Max Unwin]

Does the, the draft excluded needs to be the same size as the wall. So if you like a three man wall you need Tarek lamps and if, if, you know. And if, if the keeper wants an eight man wall, you need Dan Bird. And that's how it works. If they don't exactly tally up, it just aesthetically it just doesn't, it doesn't work.

[Barry Glendenning]

I, I thought Lord Longstaff of Northumberland scored a really, really good goal in this game that has been completely underrated and overlooked. I'm not saying it was Pinnock style goal of the season material, but it was a really good shot.

[Max Unwin]

I thought it was a bit of a shank. Wasn't it? A bit of a. It was a bit of a shank. Or is that unfair?

[Will Unwin]

I'd like to say I did say that he had a really good game in my work in the match report, but. Yeah, and a really good sign in again, good recruitment, 12 million quid. Incredible for some of that experience and knows what he's doing.

[Max Unwin]

And probably a six player draft excluded.

[Will Unwin]

Yeah, I would say Longstaff, that's his role next week.

[Max Unwin]

That's what he would be. No, you're right, I shouldn't have criticized. It was a good finish. Well done, Sean. Okay, that'll do for today. Thanks everybody. Thank you Will.

[Will Unwin]

Thank you, Max.

[Max Unwin]

Thanks, Baz.

[Barry Glendenning]

Thanks.

[Max Unwin]

Thanks Nadam.

[Nadim Manuha]

Thank you, sir.

[Max Unwin]

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We will be back on Wednesday.

[Nadim Manuha]

This is the Guardian.