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Football Weekly
As Spurs suffer again, is Tudor headed for the chop? Football Weekly
00:49:59
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Mark Langdon and Lars Sivertsen as Spurs’ disastrous season goes from bad to worse as they lose 5-2 to Atlético, including possibly the most disastrous 15 minutes of football ever
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- [00:00]
Max Rushden
This is the Guardian.
- [00:08]
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- [00:35]
Mark Langdon
We all prefer things a certain way, like groceries.
- [00:38]
Lars Ibbotson
If you want groceries just how you like them, you gotta try Instacart.
- [00:43]
Mark Langdon
They have a new preference picker that
- [00:45]
Lars Ibbotson
lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas.
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Mark Langdon
Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices.
- [00:52]
Lars Ibbotson
Because when it comes to groceries, they the details matter. Instacart get groceries just how you like.
- [01:06]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. And just how do we account for spurs being so bad in the league and yet Czech's notes even worse in the Champions League. Poor Antoninki twice kicking the ball against his standing foot and falling over. Hooked after 17 minutes. Then there's Van de Ven falling over, all of them falling over. Richard with Charleston missing a glorious chance and spurs conceding 12 seconds later. And then two players concussing one another right at the end. Even for spurs, this is ridiculous. We have to presume that that's it for Igor Tudor and perhaps the worst managerial stint of all time. Meanwhile, late joy and later Heartbreak at St. James Park. Harvey Barnes looked to have won it until Dani Olmo's quick feet won a penalty and Lamine Yamal did the rest for Barcelona. Liverpool lost at Galatasaray. Were they lucky to get away? Losing by one on unlucky not to get something out of it. And then Bayern scores six at Atalanta. So seems unlikely Italy will have any teams in the quarter finals. We'll look back on another missed Panenka in the FA cup round. Up the EFL from last night. Answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. A very spurs heavy panel welcome Mark Langdon from the Racing Post.
- [02:13]
Mark Langdon
Hi, Max.
- [02:14]
Max Rushden
Hello. Lars Ibbotson.
- [02:16]
Lars Ibbotson
You did this on purpose, didn't you? I mean, you all knew it was going to go this way. And you got us all together.
- [02:23]
Max Rushden
It's really mean providing the balance. Barry Glendenning. Hi Barry.
- [02:29]
Barry Glendenning
No pressure.
- [02:30]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Echo Sonic. Says you, Lars and Marx. Can't you all just claim compassionate leave? We're at the pity Stage already, David says no question, just pure sympathy and commiserations for you and any other spurs fans. And Alistair sent an email saying hello. I've been a Tottenham supporter for 55 years. In 2018, just a few months after reaching the Champions League final, I had a heart attack and woke up in hospital. And ever since then, spurs have become steadily worse and worse. After 20 minutes of the Athletic game, it occurred to me that perhaps I didn't wake up at all that night. And in fact I'm living in Hades. A temporary torture involving watching Tottenham on a regular basis before finally being thrown in the lake of fire. I know that in the past Football Weekly has offered best wishes to those about to be wedding. Any chance you could do the same for those who merely want to be sent on their way out of Hades and end the torment of watching Tottenham every week? So then, Athletic 5, Tottenham 2. Should we start with Antonin Kinski? I can't remember Lars ever seeing a keeper being taken off so early or actually even an outfield player taken off so early. 16 minutes, five touches, two errors leading to goals, naught saves, three goals conceded. You feel for him like it's sim. It's simultaneously hilarious and tragic for him.
- [03:44]
Lars Ibbotson
Yeah, no, I feel for him a lot, which I think even the Atleti fans did. Those famously kind hearted souls, the Atleti fans. It's a wild decision by Igor Tudor to throw in a goalkeeper who hasn't played since October. I think it is into an occasion like this. It's not just changing it up for a league game. It's a knockout game in the Champions League. It's a bizarre decision. It's a decision you're only making if you've seen things from him in training that makes you 1000% confident that he is up for this occasion. Now, if Tudor thought he had seen that, then again the eyes might have to be examined because clearly he wasn't. And there's an extraordinary miserror of judgment by Tudor. I think the substitution, there's a case to be made that you just leave him there at halftime. But I don't think it's necessarily an unfair call because he was clearly completely gone, mentally and understandably so. But the way Tudor handles that, just completely blanking him just shows just a staggering lack of not even leadership, but just like basic human quality. You can say it's frustrating for Tudor as well because he's a competitor and he didn't want the game to go that way. But notice when Kingski is going off Pedro Porro is consoling him. Christian Romero is consoling him. You've got people from the bench coming over to check if he's alright and you've got the coach just blanking him. It's pathetic. Christian Romero, also quite a competitive guy, arguably too competitive. He will also have been furious in the moment, but he found the time to come over and check if he's all right and console him. This is what you do as a human being. The short version is I feel for Kingski, but for me this is. I'm baffled that he hasn't been fired yet because this is awful behavior. It's not just bad management, it's horrific behavior on a human level and he's got no business being in that job.
- [05:25]
Max Rushden
Do you agree with that, Mark?
- [05:26]
Mark Langdon
I don't disagree. I suppose really from the point of view of Kinski, maybe there was a bit where he just needs to get off and not have people cuddling him and that in some ways that almost feels slightly more humiliating. And he's kind of, he's hanging around for another 10, 20 seconds. But I, I, yeah, I think clearly Tudor lacks the man management skills. Even sort of throughout that game he just kept on like moaning at everybody and yeah, the idea that I didn't realize he was just so Antonio Conte. I know he played under him and kind of played sort of alongside him and kind of had understood his sort of formation and, you know, sort of that ideology. But Tottenham did not need somebody to come in and tell the players how crap they were. And that is essentially what he's done. I think taking him off was the right thing. I think it would have been worse to have kept him on beyond that because they completely gone at that point. And I still think though the blame lies in other places like Kinski played last season and made a number of mistakes. He debut was fantastic after that he made mistakes against Liverpool, Arsenal, Aston Villa that I can remember sort of off the top of my head. And in the end of January, the sporting director Yann Langer said that there was nobody around in the transfer market that could help Tottenham now or in the future. And the idea. And Vicario is playing bad, so he, I think there was a case to say he needed to be dropped. And the idea though that you just leave somebody that's not up to it, I would say at the moment to be the number two and say there's nobody out there that could. They needed a seasoned professional, you know, experienced guy to be that number two to put pressure on Vicario. Not, you know, some. Some young youngster that's got, you know, still a lot of improvement to come. So, you know, he probably shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place.
- [07:27]
Max Rushden
David Hayes said no one who hasn't been a goalkeeper can understand how difficult it is to play in this position. Keep your head up, you'll go again. Peter Schmeichel said this will be a moment that everybody in football will remember when they see or hear Kinski's name. You've got to stick with him until at least half time. He absolutely killed his career.
- [07:42]
Barry Glendenning
Tudor.
- [07:43]
Max Rushden
I feel really sorry for him. And there's an interesting sort of question, Barry, about if you can laugh at a footballer's mistakes or feel sympathy or both. Because, you know, we laugh, I don't know, vouch. Fass makes a mistake and we all go, that's typical about Fass. And sort of ignore the human element of that. Is it because he's inexperienced or because he's a goalkeeper or he hasn't played for so long? Or should we laugh at him like we laugh at any other elite sports person?
- [08:07]
Barry Glendenning
I didn't think it was funny. I really felt for the guy. It's an occupational hazard that if you're a goalkeeper and you make a mistake, you're more likely to concede a goal than any other player who made a mistake. You know, Mickey Van de Ven made a mistake. He slipped. He should have got sent off, but he wasn't hooked. I would argue that Kinski only made one error. The first one, he slipped. That can happen to anyone. It did happen to several people last night. The second one was a bad boo. Boo. Whether or not he should have been left on the field, I don't know. But the manner in which Tudor studiously ignored him as he walked off, I. I found awful. I think Tudor pointing to his temples, urging them to his players to stay calm after he'd hooked his goalkeeper on. 17 minutes with his team 3 nil down will end up being one of the great memes, you know, to. It's like the this is fine dog drinking tea in the burning building, or the cellist on the Titanic's orchestra trying searching frantically for a new bow as the ship, you know, sinks beneath the waves. And when Tudor came in, everyone described him as a firefighter. You couldn't look at an article, every single article. Firefighter, firefighter. Every pundit described him as a firefighter. But this firefighter has come in now. He's torched his own reputation as a coach. He's torched his reputation as a bloke, he's poured petrol over the already burning bin fire of Tottenham season. And he's just been an age into chaos. Coming in and from the get go, he was pointing fingers, tacitly criticizing his predecessor, criticizing his players, throwing the team under the bus. And now he's thrown Kinski under the bus. Kinski didn't play well last night. Point me in the direction of a Tottenham player who did. I can't think of many.
- [10:10]
Max Rushden
I'd spend a lot of it feeling sorry for Archie Gray. You know, he's only 20, but he sort of had like 20 careers already, hasn't he? Like the poor guy, at last.
- [10:19]
Lars Ibbotson
I guess we should stop talking about him because I'm fully expecting him to be gone by the time this is out, but. And again, English is not his first language at all, so maybe we shouldn't pick his quotes apart too much. But he does even say after the game that, look, picking Kinski before the game was the right decision. It's just an incredible lack of humility as well. Like it clearly isn't. When you make a decision to change a goalkeeper for a massive game and you make the judgment call as a manager, it's kind of your job to be right about these things, that this guy is ready for this occasion and you have this outcome, you can't stand there and say, it was the right decision. It wasn't. You have to apologize and say, I got this horribly wrong. This was my fault. More than his fault. I apologize. This was my fault. That's what you say. Standing there saying no before the game. It was the right decision. You look like a moron. Quite possibly, because I think you probably are.
- [11:12]
Max Rushden
Tottenham have lost six consecutive matches in all competitions. For the first time in their history, they've lost 44 games since the start of last season. 44 games. AJ does says it's just one West Ham fan's opinion, but I for one think spurs need to do right by Igor Tudor and give him the rest of the season. And Jason says, is this the worst managerial stint of all time? And actually, Mark, it's a good question
- [11:35]
Mark Langdon
that I think we can't. I mean, you can't get much worse than four games, four defeats, like, humiliated in most of them. Everything that's gone wrong, you know, for the fans to hate you inside the month is, you know, some going. I mean, on the WhatsApp group, I suggested Felix Magat at Fulham. I mean, the record wasn't quite as bad as two doors but he did, you know, cause some serious issues I think within the club with these authoritarian.
- [12:03]
Max Rushden
So the cheese and bread of Hangerland and the cheese.
- [12:07]
Mark Langdon
And he was a fitness freak who just demanded running, running and then more running. Somebody put in the group that 10 hog at Leverkusen. I, I do think though, that was just a wrong fit and it kind of, it didn't get torched the way that this one has. So I mean, yeah, I mean it's right up there. And yet another great decision by Venkateshen and Jan Langer, the Spurs dream team who kept hold of Thomas Frank for about three months too long and then made this decision.
- [12:37]
Max Rushden
And so should they go as well?
- [12:39]
Mark Langdon
Oh yeah, I mean they definitely, I mean they, you know, they definitely need to go. I mean they've got to appoint the next person presumably, which is not going to fill anybody with confidence. They have to go surely in the summer. Like they've been so bad, every decision that they've made has been incorrect. I think that Tottenham do need vibes. You mentioned Harry Redknapp previously, Max. And I know he's 79 and he's got bigger things to worry about with his horse running the Jukebox man in the Chiltern Gold cup on Friday. But after that's done, like, I think, I think it has to be vibes. I think it has to be him like Defoe a Mason as his number two, probably, you know, a Steve Holland esque person that can kind of maybe
- [13:24]
Max Rushden
just organize, actually do the job.
- [13:26]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
- [13:28]
Mark Langdon
And just vibes. I, I, I, I don't see how anybody, they can't plan for the future because they don't, they don't know what division they're going to be in. So I, I would go Vibes. Yeah.
- [13:39]
Lars Ibbotson
Are they good vibes? Because last time he was in charge of a club he was on a six game losing street with with Birmingham in 2017. Before that he was at QPR. Can we get some QPR fans on and ask them about the vibes there because being pretty disastrous. Yeah.
- [13:53]
Mark Langdon
The fives were pretty good at spurs though. The other one would be Postecoglou. But like who else is there, you
- [13:58]
Lars Ibbotson
know, I mean they're already very bad at defending.
- [14:00]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I know, but you need to bring someone in, Lars, you need to
- [14:03]
Max Rushden
bring someone in for Ange. It's just the same conversation that you're having. Like you have and like even Barry in this game, they couldn't, half the players couldn't stand up. It wasn't just Van de Vent like, people just couldn't stand up. And there was this moment where, because I don't know how good Athletic were in this game, like, Richarlison scores that header, and you think, 42 out of this impossible possible situation, Tottenham could actually get close in this game. And then from four two, one brilliant touch from Griezmann and then it's five one. I mean, it's. It was just. I think, Lars, you tweeted it, you know, like, Spursy. Such a lazy term, but, like. I don't know, Barry. It felt as Spursy as it could ever get.
- [14:41]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, it was. It was a complete disaster. I mean, the fact that they're only 52 down is remarkable. There's a faint, very faint hope they could turn this around. And if they were to rescue the tie out of this absolute fiasco, I mean, a bit at the end when Polina and Romero more or less knocked each other out. They may be stood down for a while now, but even before kickoff, you're looking at the bench. Why is Paulina, Simmons, Gallaher and Solanke? Why aren't they playing? Why are Papisar and Archie Gray in midfield away at Atletico Madrid? And Tudor, after the game, said, and I quote, for two, three minutes, I feel we were in the game. And you know what?
- [15:36]
Lars Ibbotson
He's right. They were.
- [15:39]
Mark Langdon
It was better than the last time they were in the. In that stadium because they conceded a penalty after 10 seconds or whatever it was.
- [15:47]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, but you. You can think that. Don't say it. Don't say it out loud in front of a room full of cynical men with. With recorders switched on. You know, I would say on the face of it, a 52 defeat's pretty good result for Spurs. You know, having seen what I saw, it was astonishing. It really was. But, yeah, that Griezmann touch. Woof. Yeah. So good.
- [16:17]
Mark Langdon
I genuinely thought they were going to concede 10 when it was four after 20 minutes, at that moment, felt absolutely humiliated, even though I'd done nothing wrong. Just felt humiliated to represent the club in some way. It's just blaming my dad for, like, you know, why did you make me support this shower? Yeah.
- [16:40]
Lars Ibbotson
I feel you get to a point where actually, it's so bad, it's actually interesting. Like, you go beyond here humiliation. You go, ooh, this is. I'm intrigued to see what happens here because this is a level of badness I've not really seen before. Arguably, there are more important things going on in the world, but I have been slightly concerned about the overuse and wrong use of the word Spursy. I note on the sort of increasingly bad debating platform that is the website formerly known as Twitter, a lot of people have come to just throw Spursy out there whenever something bad happens, which is really lazy and it just kind of devalues the whole thing. I think for something to be Spursy. The essence of it is, of course, always that spurs are always, like, good enough to be within reach of getting something good. But then it fails in a way that is spectacular and. Or comical like that. That's the Spursiness. It has to be. You have to be close to something good. So I think being in the knockouts of the Champions League, that is good. Like, I'm old enough to remember where that seemed like an impossible dream for Tottenham. So that is kind of.
- [17:41]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
- [17:41]
Lars Ibbotson
But then to be there and then everyone's falling over because they appear to be wearing bowling shoes. And you have. You've picked the backup goalkeeper for no discernible reason and he has a weird one. And then you have two quite important players knocking each other out near full time. It's like, yes, this is Percy. This is what put this into the dictionary. You know, hang. Hang it in the dictionary. This is Spursy. This is what this means. You're in the champion. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is the correct usage. I endorse it, if nothing else. That was good to see. I also note I'm just constantly scrolling the official website because I'm waiting for the press release here, but the headline, the main headline, is still Atletico take control in UCL after disappointing start. Which I think is good understatement from the admin at this website. Disappointing start. Yeah, yeah.
- [18:34]
Max Rushden
I mean, you're right, you can't. I sometimes worry we do too much Tottenham on this podcast, but, like, I think. I suspect every fan of every football club is absolutely loving this situation.
- [18:46]
Mark Langdon
I just didn't think Atletico were that good, which is quite frightening. You mentioned Griezmann. He had some lovely touches. They gave up sort of some weird opportunities. I don't know if it was just the game was so freakish for them that they couldn't concentrate. It was just so, you know, I found it difficult. Tried to watch Death in Paradise afterwards to calm myself down, but I don't remember one minute of the episode. But, yeah, I think they were maybe just put off by everything as well. It was, yeah, very odd, Odd game.
- [19:16]
Max Rushden
Liverpool away next for Tottenham with, you know, at least nine of their players didn't concuss one another at the end. We've got to take the positives so who knows who'll be playing in that game. We will do Liverpool and Newcastle and Bayern's win as well in Part two.
- [19:32]
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- [20:00]
Max Rushden
Welcome to Part two of the Guardian Football Weekly Barry we're going to the States. We're going to be bigger than the Beatles. We're performing at south by Southwest next Monday with Brendan Hunt. Co creator of Ted Lasso played Coach Beard. Guardian Senior US Sports Editor Alex Adenos as well. We had a chat with them this week. They seem very nice so it's gonna be fun Barry hopefully.
- [20:22]
Barry Glendenning
I plan to go to Austin. I want to buy a big hat and a pair of cowboy boots and sit in a dive bar and I look forward to seeing our live audience on Monday.
- [20:34]
Max Rushden
Will you perform in cowboy boots and a big hat or I don't know
- [20:38]
Barry Glendenning
if I'll have got them by then.
- [20:39]
Max Rushden
That is reason enough to come along. But yes, if you are going to south by Southwest in Austin in Texas and if you're passing pop in because it'd be nice to see some people who know what this podcast is to St James's part then Newcastle 1 Barca 1 Ah this Barry, you know, heartbreak for Newcastle isn't it? Because they'd actually were good in this game and I think they deserve to win and and they are so close and it is some really brilliant feat from Danielmo to win that penalty.
- [21:06]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I think on the face of it, you look at the score, it looks like a good result for Newcastle but I think it was a big, big chance to take a two or three goal lead to the NOU camp squandered. Newcastle fans are welcome to disagree with me. I think if they look deep into their hearts they'll they'll think say I'm I'm on some. Barcelona were terrible in this game and it's not often they play as badly as they did at St. James's park last night. They created little or nothing. They were there for the taking. Newcastle were 1N up in the knockings and then Barcelona won that penalty. Great feat from Danny Olmo as you say Stitch Malik Chop and and he tripped him. It was a penalty. I've seen some Newcastle fans were Complaining that this happened in the fifth minute of four minutes of added time. But the one thing I'd say is the ref has discretion to add on time to added time. And I think Newcastle made a substitution in added time. So there's your 30 seconds. Also I think Anthony Gordon gifted possession to the the Barca goalkeeper who was able to launch it up field for for Barca to win that penalty. But the starting lineups of this game, Johan Whistle and Volta Mater were on the bench. Neither of them were brought on. That's a pretty damning indictment of of Newcastle summer transfer policy and dealings. Anthony Elanga wasn't terrible in this game, but he wasn't great either. Missed a decent chance and was lacking in final balls, passes, crosses, whatnot. I thought Joel Linton was excellent. I thought Lewis hall was outstanding. He did real number on Lamina Mal who had a quiet night. Jacob Ramsay could as well. But Newcastle are still very much in the tie. But it's difficult to imagine Barcelona playing this badly in the second leg.
- [23:14]
Lars Ibbotson
So I watched the first period of this because I was determined to have this as my main game before events kind of forced me to switch over to the North London Traveling Circus because it was just. You can had to see it. But I get the angle of like, yeah, it's an opportunity missed. If I was a Newcastle fan, I'd feel quietly good about the chances going to the camp. No, I know being away is going to be more difficult. And Newcastle, you know, traditionally better at home and all that. But Barcelona, they are a magnificent team. They're top of La Liga for a reason. Lamina Mal, one of the best players in the world. I get all that. But they do have this glass jar like they keep this incredibly high line that we know the players are not 100% comfortable with. And we know that because reports were that they actually had a meeting with the coach after they lost 4 nil to Atletico about the high line and wasn't sort of asking him like, is there any chance we could maybe like moderate this a little bit for certain games?
- [24:09]
Max Rushden
Did they put the chairs really far back? Did they like.
- [24:14]
Lars Ibbotson
I mean they got spanked by Sevilla earlier in the season. I mean they've had several games where they've just been countered to bits this year. Now for the rest of the games, they've been extremely dominant and extremely good. And don't get me wrong, they can blow you away. But you saw a number of times in this game where Newcastle were able to get in behind them with the direct running that they have in the team. I think they can do that again in Spain. I'm not saying they're favorites or anything and the most likely thing is clearly that Barcelona will, will beat them. But if I'm a Newcastle fan, yeah, I'm upset that this ended 1:1 but I would look at the way this game went and think we have chances here because the thing we're good at is a thing that Barcelona really don't like playing against and they did expose that.
- [24:52]
Max Rushden
I thought Garcia made a brilliant that save from Malanga. I think they gave offside but it wasn't offside. I think it was absolutely brilliant save, wasn't it? And I just feel Mark, there is a psychology of when it goes past the minute that is. That's the end of full time that you. I reckon players do sort of switch off a bit. You know you just sort of think ah, we've done it. Even if it's. I know they're elite sports people but if it is the 95th of 94 you think ah, this is done.
- [25:18]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I, I agree with that. I think also the crowd start moving into celebratory mode or really tense and sort of, you know, either way can just be a slight distraction. I, you know there's been a lot of doubt, isn't there around Eddie Howe and his long term future at Newcastle and they've not had a strong domestic season. But I really like him as a coach and one of the. I think he's very good at planning sort of, you know, picking teams for certain matches and you know, when it goes wrong you then look foolish because you're kind of chopping and changing the team around. But he picked a team to expose the, the high line that the Barcelona play and like for 95 minutes they played almost a perfect game. They've given very few chances up. They look the more threatening. I think everything he wanted to do tactically the players sort of did and then they've just suffered that sort of real hammer blow with the last kick of the game. So I think that they can be. I don't want to be condescending. I think they can be really proud of the performance. Barcelona a very good team and Newcastle have more than matched them. The difference when even though the Camp Nou is not its kind of full capacity and you know Barcelona is still finding their feet back at sort of the stadium since the renovation. There's still that I think just mind block for players that when you're going there the pitch feels enormous and it's just Wave after wave of attack and you can't. You just can't stem the flow. So I think that would be like getting the psychology right of it being another game and you can beat them is almost as difficult as playing against the players, if that makes sense. I think that a lot of teams do just get beat before they've even been there.
- [27:02]
Max Rushden
To Galatasaro then who beat Liverpool 1 nil slots 100th game in charge. Mario Lemina scoring the only goal early on. I don't know, Lars. I really. And I put this in the group, didn't I? I couldn't work out watching this if Liverpool were lucky to get away with 1 nil or unlucky not to get something out of the game because they're just sort of massive chances at both ends. Maldives really had a brilliant game in goal for Liverpool, but they did have big chances.
- [27:28]
Lars Ibbotson
Yeah, I'm happy for him because I like him as a player and he obviously had a bit of a mayor earlier in the season when he had to stand in. This was a touch of the redemptions about this. It was a really fun game to watch, as is often the case with Gal Tesrai in these big games. Because this thing we're seeing in England of everyone just trying to control the game and shut things down and score from set pieces like Galatasaray couldn't do that if they tried. Like that's. That's not in them from. I know what you're saying about Liverpool. I felt like they kept getting into like threatening positions and you saw that there were openings because again Galatasaray not that well organized, but they often made like the wrong decisions. There's like slightly overhit passes, slightly wrong choices. So they will probably feel that. Yeah, based on the number of times we had the ball in good areas and there were openings, we probably should have created more. But on the other side, they did a lot of weird stuff at the back here.
- [28:17]
Max Rushden
Liverpool Canate had an odd day, didn't he?
- [28:19]
Lars Ibbotson
Canate had a very. I mean he almost scored an incred goal to give him that. But he had a deeply strange day as the center half which was. And it's. And again Galatasar. I will feel we probably should have scored a couple more goals here. I say this as a slightly bitter gambler who had both teams to score in over two and a half goals in this game, which I think on the balance of play was not necessarily a bad pick. But I just. It was entertaining. There was good goalkeeping down both ends. Victor Osterman is interesting to me because he's such a good player and I feel like he's one of the guys who kind of get it in this team. You could tell he was quite frustrated with like, okay, they beat Liverpool 1 nil. That's really good. But you could tell he knew that they should have had a few more goals here. And you could tell he was at sometimes quite frustrated with some of the decisions his teammates were making in terms of passing, not passing. I guess the rational response is maybe a narrow win to Galatasaray is fair, but I feel like both teams come out of this thinking we should have done more here really.
- [29:20]
Max Rushden
It was a strange game and Liverpool are slightly strange. Barry, you know the.
- [29:24]
Barry Glendenning
The.
- [29:25]
Max Rushden
There isn't control there.
- [29:27]
Barry Glendenning
There often is control in Liverpool performances and they get criticized for. For being too slow, too ponderous in the build up, too boring. There I say it. And that wasn't the case last night because this was really end to end and quite chaotic and wild this game, especially the first half. I think after 24 minutes there'd been 10 chances between them. Galatasarai got a goal. Both teams had goals ruled out. I would say fairly controversially. And both teams had several big chances. Verts missed a couple for Liverpool, McAllister, Ekatike all had good chances that that weren't scored. And then Osimhen Sanchez had big chances for Galatasaray. So I'd be inclined to agree with Lars that one nil home win for Galatasarai is probably just about fair and leaves the tie very nicely poised. I'm sure Liverpool will be confident they can ooverturn it.
- [30:30]
Lars Ibbotson
A one goal advantage to Altasterite probably fair, but the result should have been three, two or four, three or something.
- [30:36]
Max Rushden
I think you're right.
- [30:37]
Lars Ibbotson
And an interesting little thing. So Galatasaray had a. I promise you, I think this is a little dry, but I think it's worth it. Galatasaray had a 71% pass succession this game across the board. So like more than one out of every four passes went astray, which is unusual to see at this level. I think the lowest pass average in the Premier League is palace with like 78%. So you don't. But it does reflect this idea that they don't play it safe like a lot or ever. Like they're so ambitious. They want to. It is a real throw. It is kind of like watching Premier League football of 20, 25 years ago sometimes is that you have some really brilliant individuals and people are not afraid to take big risks in possession and they really, really Galatasaray and I hope they. With apologies to Liverpool fans. I would love to see them go through. I'm just wondering if this sort of slightly unserious behavior will be. Will be the death of them at some point. But they are very good to watch and their games are consistently entertaining.
- [31:34]
Max Rushden
Lars, I love your enthusiasm for pass completion stats. Where I was looking around at the rest of the call, you were grinning from ear to ear. I'm not sure everyone was with you. But you did it with conviction and it was infectious. So I believed. I believed in it. That's okay. On those disallowed goals. Hang on. Which were they, Mark? The one where can I say? Fell over about eight times.
- [31:56]
Mark Langdon
Yeah. When UMass is flagged for offside because he makes a run slightly towards the ball. Yeah, yeah, I. I thought that was fair and I think he did make a run towards the ball and so I think that one's fair enough. I would have more questions over the. What would have been a Van Dijk goal because it comes off his heel after it maybe touches Sanchez's arm. Davidson. Sanchez was in there as well with Canate Hards and you know, it might have come off both of them but it doesn't directly lead to a goal. And so I think it was accidental. In the Champions League they are punished more but I felt that was. Of the two. I felt the look like being Canate's goal, but I think it would have been Van Dijk's officially does come off his heel. I felt that one was. Was really hard done by for Liverpool. Actually there were 11 shots on target in the. In this game which I think does just play into what he was all saying. They're really just about the chaotic nature of it.
- [32:55]
Max Rushden
Yeah. More of the same please, all of you. In the second leg, Bayern won 61 Atalanta. They are through, aren't they? What else do we want to say? Like it's great for spurs to not be the most humiliated side of the night.
- [33:09]
Barry Glendenning
I wouldn't necessarily agree that's the case.
- [33:13]
Max Rushden
You're probably right, Barry.
- [33:15]
Barry Glendenning
This. This was so easy for Bayern that Michael Elise was able to score the same goal twice. They hit the woodwork twice. And Alise and Joshua Kimmich were both able to take tactical yellow cards. So they're. They now sit out the second leg and have clean slates for the quarterfinals. So I mean Bayern had it entirely their own way. It was an absolute pummeling. Michael Elise was superb.
- [33:49]
Max Rushden
How much can we draw into this game, Mark?
- [33:51]
Mark Langdon
Well, I mean, Biden scored six goals away from home Champions League against a decent Atalanta team with Harry Kane nursing a calf injury. Yeah, I mean, I think that's sort of maybe underplaying just how sort of impressive a result that was because it was so wide margin, you know. But Atalanta have done very well at home in the Champions League, and they were completely battered by Bayern, had 13 shots on target in the game. I think the one thing with Bayern, though, is just I'm not sure we learned anything when they're good and they're in free flow. They are a devastating team in the forward positions. A lot of interchange of positions with Diaz and Elise, and, you know, Kane drops deep and it's very difficult to defend against when they come up against the best teams. And Atalanta are clearly not that like, the defense just, I think, will be their undoing at some stage in this Champions League when they come up against, you know, maybe a Paris Saint Germain or even it could be Arsenal, maybe in the final, who will defend much better and then hurt them, I think. I mean, that's where the problems come. But they're a great team to watch. Absolutely love watching Bayern Munich. But. But defensively, I. I still feel that they'll get done at some stage.
- [35:05]
Max Rushden
I suppose. The interesting, Lars, is they will play the winners of Real Madrid, Man City. Right. Which is another brilliant football match. Yeah.
- [35:12]
Lars Ibbotson
And then they'll be tested at the back and I guess we'll learn more about them, I think, on league form, what they've been doing in Germany, they've looked like the best team in Europe, but then you question how strong is the Bundesliga this year? And then they've got eight wins and nine in the Champions League, with the only exception being Arsenal. So in my mind, they're both possibly them and Arsenal, the best two teams in Europe, for my money. And Atalanta have been improving under Paladino. They've come a little bit unstuck in the last few games, but they're clearly, like, struggling a little bit to find their feet in the sort of post Gasparini world. And yeah, as much as they've had certain good performances, they were just not. Elisa, very much the second coming of Aryan Robben, though. He's doing the exact same stuff for them. It's. It's good to see.
- [35:56]
Max Rushden
That's what's quite interesting, Barry. You know, not a good night for the Premier League sides. Those three teams could all go out. I mean, like two could go through. You've got Chelsea playing psg. You've got Man City playing Real Madrid. You'd expect Arsenal get past Leverkusen but. But it's quite interesting you make sweeping judgments on England should have the Premier League should have four teams in the semi finals too.
- [36:18]
Lars Ibbotson
Actually.
- [36:18]
Max Rushden
There might just be one left at the end of all of this.
- [36:20]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. They probably should have. I don't think it's as bad. Was as bad a night for the Premier League as you make it out. It was bad.
- [36:27]
Max Rushden
I mean none of them won I guess. You know.
- [36:29]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. Going by by money and revenue they should have all of them with the possible exception of Newcastle should be in the quarterfinals going by their spending. But that isn't always how things work out. I would rather if there were a mix of teams from different countries in the semi finals because it would be very boring if they were all it was. They were entirely Premier League affairs. We're all presuming Arsenal will sweep by our Leverkusen aside and they probably will. But it may not be the foregone conclusion we all think it's going to be because while Leverkusen aren't great and are in a season of transition, Arsenal while grinding out results haven't been particularly impressive in recent weeks.
- [37:19]
Max Rushden
Bodo Lars Sporting Tonight Thoughts?
- [37:23]
Lars Ibbotson
The biggest problem with them is that I'm just. We're fully out of superlatives at this point. I think it's. It's remarkable what they've done. Weirdly. I wonder what. I mean because after beating City and after beating Atletico and after knocking out Inter. I wonder what that does to like the dynamic going into Sporting. Who's in theory not as good a team as those. But of course both of them are still massive underdogs or at least should be some interested in how they handle that occasion. But the thing that they've always really excelled at is getting the mentality right in these situations. Not being afraid, not being complacent. If that's even possible. It's a remarkable story. It's my favorite story in world football at the moment and it should be yours as well. Watch the game. It'll be fun.
- [38:10]
Max Rushden
What do you make of the other games Mark? Psg Chelsea and Real Madrid City.
- [38:13]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I was PSG and not playing as well as what they were sort of this. It was about this time last year that they really found their best form and you do wonder whether they just don't care domestically and they just want to turn it on for the Champions League games. I would favor PSG to come through that one over two legs. I mean, Man City against Real Madrid, like Mbappe's injury and this knee problem I think is a big issue for them because he's their best player obviously. That goes without saying really. But like, I think because they're so bad defensively and not great in midfield when you've got him and Vinicius up front, like, you know, I think Lars has mentioned this before. You can do everything else wrong and still win matches, even at a really high level. If one of those players is missing and Rodrigo's out as well, you just. You need to rely more on the cohesive nature of your team and that's not what Real Madrid are good at. So I think it's. It's a really strong opportunity for Man City, you know, to. To go and win the game and put themselves in a great position for the tie overall. And just with a Premier League there, I think you have got the two best ones, Arsenal and Man City still to come, you know, I don't probably shouldn't expect huge amounts from particularly spurs and Newcastle and I think that Liverpool will get through against Galatasaray.
- [39:39]
Max Rushden
All right then, that'll do for part two. Part three we'll discuss Mist Panenkers.
- [39:47]
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- [40:08]
Max Rushden
Hey, Sal. Hank.
- [40:09]
Mark Langdon
What's going on?
- [40:10]
Max Rushden
We haven't worked a case in years.
- [40:12]
Lars Ibbotson
I just bought my car at Carvana
- [40:13]
Max Rushden
and it was so easy.
- [40:14]
Lars Ibbotson
Too easy.
- [40:15]
Max Rushden
Think something's up? You tell me.
- [40:18]
Lars Ibbotson
They got thousands of options, found a
- [40:20]
Barry Glendenning
great car at a great price and
- [40:22]
Lars Ibbotson
it got delivered the next day.
- [40:24]
Max Rushden
It sounds like Carvana. Just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right.
- [40:29]
Lars Ibbotson
Case closed.
- [40:31]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [40:35]
Lars Ibbotson
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- [40:46]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Last game of the fifth round, the FA Cup. West Ham Brentford drew 2 2. West Ham won 53 on penalties, mainly because Django Watara. Mr. Panenka. Nothing more fun than a miss, Panenka. It was Areola, wasn't it? Just standing there and catching the ball. Keith Andrews was interesting afterwards. Barry saying, I'm not a nod at all. It's the easiest thing for a footballer to do is not take a penalty. It takes unbelievable courage on a Stage like that to take a penalty. It's probably the first time I've ever spoken about penalty kicks and people that missed them. I despise the culture around players that have missed penalty kicks. You know the ones I'm talking about, national heroes that have done it. Ridiculed, persecuted. I think it's disgusting. He practices that technique a lot. If it goes in, everyone's raving about him. Django will get the absolute support he needs from myself and everyone attached to it. So can we laugh that he missed a pananga because Ariana caught the ball, or is that just disgusting?
- [41:40]
Barry Glendenning
I think it's fine. Enzo Le Fay missed one for Sunderland earlier this season. I had no problem with it. Grand. I, I kind of applaud anyone who has the, the balls to try it. If it doesn't come off, you look like a trump. You know you're going to look like a trump. I think as long as you're generally playing well and contributing to the team, fans will be quite happy to look past it. I, I've no problem with it personally, but I can also see why some coaches would be massively annoyed about it. Keith Andrews clearly isn't one.
- [42:16]
Lars Ibbotson
I've never seen a player miss a penalty for my team by like, aiming for the top corner, getting it wrong and launching it into space. And I've never afterwards thought, oh, well, at least he didn't try a pananga. Like, I mean, this is a bizarre way to look at this. Like, if you, if you score a penalty, great. If you don't, it doesn't really matter. And I've not seen convincing numbers to suggest that the Panenka is inherently less effective than other techniques. If that research exists, feel free to enlighten me. But I think it's just. If it works for you, it does. But I think there's a concern because everyone does so much analysis on this now. I think if you're someone who frequently pelinkas, you are at risk of the goalkeeper calling your bluff because they do their homework these days. That's the only thing. So I do wonder if the. A superb level of preparation clubs now go through will eventually be the death of the Panenka, because you can't. At least, at least you can't do it regularly because it's, it's, it's easily countered.
- [43:15]
Max Rushden
Sure. Well, Antonin Panenka must stop doing them because, like, you know, people will know, won't they?
- [43:21]
Barry Glendenning
The Afghan Final Panenka obviously is the daddy of them all, isn't it? Brahim Diaz See, I've already forgotten. And we all thought, oh, that'll be the end of Brahim Diaz. You have to go and live in a cave somewhere. But I'd forgotten it was him.
- [43:38]
Mark Langdon
Just wondering what would have happened if Richarlison would have tried that last night. I'm sure Igor Tudor, I'm sure Tudor would have. Would have had the same response as Keith Andrews. Or he might have chucked him under the bus.
- [43:51]
Max Rushden
So Southampton, Arsenal, Chelsea, Port Vale, Man City, Liverpool and West Ham. Leeds. The quarterfinal draw favorable for Arsenal and Chelsea and a great chance for West Ham or Leeds to get to the semi final in the EFL Last night, Sheffield Wednesday was so close to getting a win. They'd lost 14 in a row. One nil up against Watford, but conceded in the last minute. But still they didn't lose. Wrexham lost 21 to Hull, who are a place above them in the playoffs. Millwall beat Derby 1 nil, just one point behind Middlesbrough in second Borough play Charlton tonight. Ten players from a Jamaican team, Mount Pleasant, have been denied visas to enter the US for today's CONCACAF Champions tie against LA Galaxy. Mount Pleasant won the CONCACAF Caribbean Cup. They're set to make their cup debut in California. Their squad includes seven players from Haiti who currently aren't allowed access under Trump's expanded travel ban.
- [44:41]
Lars Ibbotson
I'm just curious about what happens then, because in my mind that means LA Galaxy forfeit the tie. I mean, if you. If your country cannot host the opponent you lose and the other people go through, I think would be the reasonable outcome to that, though I suspect that won't happen.
- [44:55]
Max Rushden
They are big force to call up a number of academy players, so I think they will play. But 10 of their players have been denied visas, which is obviously completely ridiculous, isn't it? But you know, there will be more stories like this and increasingly so, I imagine as the World cup gets closer. Carl Walker's retired from England duty. He was unlikely to make the squad, but he's had a great career mark for England, hasn't he? I mean, he's been 96 caps. I don't know fullbacks. We talk. We don't talk about them. We talk about them more and more. But like, he. He has been brilliant for this country.
- [45:29]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, he was. I mean, when he first came in at Tottenham. I just can't defend like you've got no chance of him actually, you know, reaching really high level. But he improved so much, particularly I think, going to Man City. And Guardiola took his game on even more. But as you say, like nearly 100 caps for England in a position where, you know, they're fairly well stacked and, you know, great defender, was able to get forward, tremendous pace. Yeah, I think he's obviously, you know, off field activities, not always been perfect, but certainly on the pitch I think he's a brilliant footballer.
- [46:07]
Max Rushden
Here's a nice email from someone called Max saying. While visiting a friend in Laycock, I bumped into Roy Hodgson ambling around the village as a Crystal palace fan. This was very exciting. And he kindly assented to a photo. My friend had no idea who Roy is. She was initially quite confused why I'd accosted an elderly gentleman in the and started thanking him for his service. She said he looked very happy to have his photo taken with me. I said it probably doesn't happen to him very often these days. That evening while watching the rugby at a pub in Bath, I got talking to a chap from Glasgow here. He said, you like football? Look who I met this morning in Devizes. Go on. I said, thinking to myself, it bet it won't be as good as Roy Hodgson. He produced a photo of himself arm in arm with none other than Roy Hodgson. I showed him my photo. We worked out they were taken less than an hour apart. It seems Roy is blazing through Wiltshire like the Rolling Stone touring America in 69, being mobbed by all and sundry. We both agreed he was very nice and had a certain aura to him. Wishing all Barry all the best for his run on that. Barry, a lovely story. If anyone else has seen Roy Hodgson in Wiltshire, please let us know. How's your. You got. You got an injured adductor muscle, Barry?
- [47:22]
Barry Glendenning
Yes, I have and I've been advised to rest for fear of doing it even more of a mischief. And to be honest, it didn't take much persuading to get me to rest. But I'm still putting in the the miles on a stationary bike, which I have to say is incredibly boring. It is so, so boring and I. I now have even more sympathy than ever before for any athlete who does their knee ligaments because I believe a sizable proportion of the rehab process is hour after hour after hour on a stationary bike. But I think I'll be fine, so no panic. I won't be issuing refunds just yet. I think it's important to mention I just have to complete the half marathon course. I didn't make any promises that I was going to win it, although I did notice at the weekend it was drawn to my attention some fellas set a new world record for the half marathon, it was just 57 minutes and a bit, so that's something to aim for.
- [48:31]
Max Rushden
This is from Johnny, long suffering Plymouth Argyle fan. He says, Dear Max, Barry and the rest of the team, I've listened to Football Weekly for years and like many others, it's been a great source of comfort, smiles and laughs during both the good times and the tougher ones. Part of why it's meant so much to me is the sense of perspective and distraction it brings, taking my mind off the serious things and into the unimportant things which somehow make them incredibly important. It's a feeling I used to get sitting with my dad and my old football coach. No word of a lie called John Wayne while watching Plymouth Argyle together for many years. Sadly, both have now passed on. But now I'm beginning to find someone new to share my football love with. My son Rafi is well on his way to falling in love with the beautiful game. And while he's not joined the Green army, instead choosing Wickham Wanderers and Man City, it's incredibly special to see part of that journey has been listening to Football Weekly together. He's become a massive fan, particularly one of Barry Glendenning. It happens to be Raffi's 10th birthday this Friday. If there's any chance months Barry could wish him a happy birthday, it would absolutely make his day and mine too. All the best. Please keep doing what you're doing, it's gloriously important. Thanks Johnny Long suffering Plymouth fan. So, yeah, happy 10th birthday to. I remember that when I used to watch kids TV there was a little bear called BC on Anglia TV that would do the birthdays for 10 year olds. This is what you are now, Barry. But look, you'll make Raffy's day, so do it with gusto.
- [49:51]
Barry Glendenning
Well, Rafi will be delighted or possibly horrified to hear that he nearly has the same birthday as me because my birthday is tomorrow and his is the day after. So I'm the 12th of March. Rafi is the 13th, Friday the 13th. Unlucky for some Raffy, but not for you I hope. And I hope you get lots of presents. And I'm also curious, I'd like to know why you picked Wickham over Plymouth. That seems. I can only guess they live in Wickham or something.
- [50:23]
Max Rushden
But well, if he's a glory hunter and Wickham fan, then good, good on Raffi, I say. Well then, tomorrow's pod. The Barry birthday special. How exciting. If you'd like to wish Barry a happy birthday and tell us what he means to you. Now is your chance.
- [50:40]
Barry Glendenning
Please don't.
- [50:41]
Max Rushden
FootballWeeklyGuardian.com that'll fill an episode. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for going through the pain with me, Lars.
- [50:50]
Lars Ibbotson
Thank you, Max. It was therapeutic.
- [50:51]
Max Rushden
It was.
- [50:52]
Lars Ibbotson
Still not fired, by the way. I've checked the website.
- [50:54]
Barry Glendenning
It usually comes at 10 o', clock, doesn't it? It's currently 9:19.
- [50:59]
Lars Ibbotson
Can we agree that we don't need a voice note if it happens? It's just. See original pod.
- [51:04]
Max Rushden
I think people like the voice notes.
- [51:06]
Lars Ibbotson
Okay.
- [51:06]
Max Rushden
Anyway, thank you, Mark.
- [51:08]
Mark Langdon
I think I need to apologize, Max. I'm not being at my best today, but it's been a struggle. It's really. It's getting me down.
- [51:16]
Max Rushden
I don't know if it's better or worse to say I didn't notice a discernible difference. Mark,
- [51:22]
Mark Langdon
I feel better for. I feel better for having this hour.
- [51:25]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Barry. I look forward to your birthday tomorrow.
- [51:28]
Barry Glendenning
Okay, thank you. I. I commend you all on your stoicism in the face of total humiliation.
- [51:36]
Max Rushden
Well, I suppose at least, Barry, you know what total humiliation is. And so it's great that you've imparted that to us. Football Weekly is produced by Tao Papula and Jesse Howard. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. And we'll be back tomorrow.
- [52:05]
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