D (3:30)

Yeah. He couldn't once prove his points. I mean that's, that's something, I mean you've got, I think you've got to say that something like this was inevitable in that the, the way that Brendan Rodgers left Celtic the first time meant he never quite won Celtic fans over completely no 11 trophies in and all that success. But this level of evisceration is just, I don't think we've ever seen anything like it. It's absolutely incredible. I mean it's almost enough to like for Brendan Rogers to maybe turn around and go, you know, you've caused me reputational harm because that's is so strong and what, 15 minutes, I think after the, after the statement came out that he'd resigned. So I mean this has been brewing just absolutely incredible. I'm almost lost for words about it. I don't, I can't remember. I mean, you know, Marinakis aside, this doesn't happen. This is something completely different.

A (4:26)

At least Brendan Rodgers will never have to ask Dermot Desmond for a reference in the future because it's now out in the open. But yeah, it does feel like it's a very modern day fallout that's playing out in various Forms of media. You know, you have Brendan Rogers using his platform as a manager to basically pass the buck when he's in charge of a football team. You've then got, you know, the, the a board member, someone you know in the highest echelon of Celtic football club using his platform on the club website to discredit anything the Rogers has said. And basically, you know, almost like a character assassination really. I'm sure Rogers will use his platform as a broadcaster as most ex managers who are high profile tend to be to, to kind of give his version of events relatively soon too. And then the person who's come in on a short term basis to replace him, you know, has made headlines twice in the last month. First time by basically saying that he didn't believe in expected goals and the second time within the last kind of week or so by saying publicly that he thinks Hearts are going to win the, the title. And now he's Celtic manager. It's a very modern day saga. It's an absolute mess. From the outside looking in, it's incredibly enjoyable and I kind of feel like it's not going to end here because as Sanny says, surely Brendan Rogers, when he read that statement, I cannot imagine just the absolute fury that must have been coursing through his veins. And that only leads one way and I'm sure pretty soon we're going to. Whether it's via the LMA or whether it's via a radio station or whatever else we're going to hear from, from Rogers on his version of events.

B (6:06)

Yeah, I mean I, I wonder with the first time. Celtic don't win. Does some. Does, you know, does Martin o' Neill come out and say our XG was better? Or like when they. Or just. Or does. Does the reporter say, well your XG.

A (6:16)

Was three or even unironically say, like, oh, we missed loads of big chances and they only had one. And he was like Martin, that, that's, that's what it is.

B (6:26)

So that. So now what? Ben? Big. I mean there are big couple of interesting things. One is who takes the Celtic job? I mean, you know, it's o' Neill at the moment with Sean Maloney. But you know, there's a big Ange Postecoglou sort of figure called Ange Postecogli. That's what it is. Who doesn't have work at the moment, which would be fascinating.

C (6:43)

Yeah. Having seen many of his 40 days in the job or so. I don't know, I feel like Big Ange just needs a bit of a Big break. Yeah. I mean, Celtic, I'm sure would be up for that. I don't know. I mean, he's not gonna get. He's not gonna get another Premier League job, so maybe it would be quite a good sort of relatively soft landing, given what he. He had success there. So. Yeah, possibly. Just coming back to Desmond, I just find it remarkable. This is a guy who's, you know, supposedly publicity shy, we don't hear from very often, and then when he does come out, he's just absolutely gone for it in Roasted Rogers. So, yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna be a good couple of weeks, I'm sure.

A (7:20)

Yeah.

B (7:21)

And then for Brendan Rodgers, I guess, Sonny, already quite short odds for Wolves and West Ham. You know, like, Nuno leaves West Ham, it's total circus, isn't it? But, you know, you wonder if he's timed it because he's just fed up or that he's chatted to someone in the Premier League.

D (7:37)

I mean, surely not. Surely. Look at what happened to Ange. Like, if you go straight out of one job into another. I know they're totally different sorts of managers, but would you really want to bring that on yourself? Brendan Rodgers going to West Ham, can you imagine how quickly that would source. I mean, that would sour before it even. Even got there. I mean, that was just incredible. Surely not.

B (7:56)

I mean, it'd be amazing for the Celtic fans if he did just tip up again, like after the last time, he just tips up at a new club. I don't know, there's something about managers. They have this. Because, I mean, I think, you know, I think we're all. I don't know, you can't talk for everyone. But I think most people who talk about football go, have I got a 5 million payoff? I would have a. I'd give it a couple of months. Do you know what I mean? But maybe it's different. You're a manager. Anyway, look, we'll. We'll talk about it more on Thursday. And more will happen, no doubt, between now and Thursday. Let's talk about the championship. We'll start with Sheffield Wednesday. They've been placed into administration, deducted 12 points. Fans described it as one of the most bittersweet days in our 158 year history. The Sheffield Wednesday Supporters Trust said entering administration was the inevitable outcome of years of financial mismanagement, a lack of accountability and repeated failures to engage credible buyers. Administration is not something to be celebrated. It needn't have ended this way, but we're overjoyed to have Chancery out of the club. Manager Henrik Pedersen said. Now there's a belief, a hope, there's a feeling of looking towards better days. When I close my eyes, I can see a bright future for Sheffield Wednesday and the administrators. The joint administrator says they have four or five serious bidders and the club could have new owners by the end of the year. I know we've talked about administration before on this pod, but George, it is worth reminding listeners what this exactly means for Sheffield Wednesday.

A (9:11)

Yeah, for sure. I mean, administration normally, when in football terms it comes kind of at the end of the road when there are no prospective buyers, there are bills that are unpaid and effective administrators are called in in order to clear the decks, ensure that the club can continue to operate by raising money whichever way possible, whilst also looking for new owners. And it can come with a severe chance of existential threat. And that's why normally when a club goes into administration, it's a terrible day and a dark day for the club. As the statement says, with Sheffield Wednesday, you know, administration in itself is nothing to cheer, it's nothing to celebrate. But in this case it feels like the start of the road rather than the end of it. Because we know, and we've been led to believe over years rather than months that there have been prospective buyers interested and serious about buying Sheffield Wednesday. And those that interest hasn't turned into anything solid because of the demands and the inflated price that Chancery has wanted for his asset in Chef Wednesday, which is well beyond what it was worth and well beyond what anyone in their right mind would pay for it. And so firstly, new administration means that the Chanceria era is over and that is a massive thing to celebrate because, you know, unlike other owners who've been, you know, who's, whose era has or tenure has turned incredibly poisonous with chance theory, it's been total mismanagement rather than necessarily. It hasn't been been based in evil, it's been based in pure incompetence and an inability to manage the, the affairs of Sheffield Wednesday effectively. That has. And then, and also to, to kind of leave the table when needed, which has led, led to them into this position. His reign is now over and within minutes of the club being put into administration, we saw the Chancery seats in one of the stands at Hills were being pulled out in a pretty powerful message. And against Oxford on Saturday, in the pre match kind of entertainment, I guess there was a very moving message put on the, on the, the big screen as well, effectively saying that Chancery had been removed and that the club is rebooting and showing some amazing parts of history. Now, the good thing is that the fan base have been boycotting home games and therefore plugging the supply line of funds towards Transiri. And the first thing the administrators did when they came in was to say, that needs to change now, as fans, please come back in. And they have promised the fan base that all funds that are raised by ticket sales and merchandise sales and hospitality sales and everything else will go straight into the football club. None of it will go to Chancery, none of it will go to them. And that meant that we saw, you know, a club that had been boycotted in the midweek game against Middlesbrough, with barely any home fans, suddenly had 20, 27 and a half thousand home fans in, in the crowd for Saturday. It feels like a club that has been reborn. It feels like a club where the fans have got their, their club back. There was a statement released by the club and the players asking for the. For them to come back. And they, they responded in their numbers. And then the other positive thing is, as mentioned, because there are serious buyers and because there have been serious buyers over the last couple of years who still remain at the table, it does feel like in other administrations, the possibility of finding a buyer has found has seemed difficult or unlikely in this case, given that the asking price presumably has been slashed as to where it should be. Hopefully the administration won't be a long period and we see Sheffield Wednesday bought and then looking ahead to the future, because Saturday showed what this club can be and it's been an absolute shell of what it should be because of the management of the previous owner.

B (12:51)

And Sanny, you've been covering this a lot for Sky. Just give us an impression, and George has touched on it, of just the vibe shift in Chancery leaving.

D (13:00)

It's quite amazing because when I arrived and, you know, I got a call that morning, we've got rumors that the administration might happen and jump out the car and immediately you're on air and stuff. And given like, the context of every other administration we've ever seen and every other club that's ever been in this situation, you start quite somber and quite, you know, it's a worrying time, etc. Etc. And after my first live, one of the administrators actually came out, Paul, and came and said, hello, can we have a chat? And so immediately we had him on. So that's literally the opposite of what the previous ownership has been like. And in the course of that conversation, I was like, you know, is this a Good day for Sheffield Wednesday. He's like, yeah, it's a great day. It's one of the, one of the best days in recent times. And it completely shifted the mood even in my head as to just how huge this was. And then after that, went down to the club shop and it was just a continual stream of fans coming in and every single one was delighted. Like the first woman I spoke to had bought five brand new shirts. And if you, if you're a Sheffield Wednesday fan, you'll know that the shirts are really expensive. I think Chancery had them at 60 quid or something. And part of the Supporters Trust boycott, which is kind of ultimately precipitated this administration because, yeah, the Middlesbrough game that, that George alluded to there, there were so few fans, it really became quite clear that they can't get any matchday revenue. The club will completely cease to be able to function whatsoever without any funds. So the boycott, 100% worked. And all of a sudden everyone's coming back, everyone's coming back and everyone's buying stuff, everyone's buying tickets for the match. It was absolutely incredible. I've never, you know, any journalist is doing vox pops where you talk to random people. You know, sometimes it's a bit of a grind. Every founders came and wanted to talk to me and none of them were lunatics. It was completely amazing. So, yeah, shirts and shirts and shirts. There was one guy who had a six week old baby and he was like in tears saying, you know, I've been wanting to just, just get them involved in my club, get them in Club Merch. I've not been able to do anything like that. He was there. So many fans buying tickets. It was something absolutely incredible. And yeah, the, the removal of the seats. Right. So I don't know if you saw this, but 78,000 people were watching a live stream from Sheffield Wednesday's esports channel and all it was doing was showing the Chansiri being removed very. So slowly, so slowly. You know, that just gives you an idea of just how big Chef Wednesday. I go, yeah, that's the modern way of measuring how big a football club is, is it? But point is like, yeah, you really get an appreciation of just how massive Sheffield Wednesday is. Like beyond any of a kind of similar recent situation we've had like this with administrations like some Morecambe Maccasville Berry. This was something else. And the fact that administration and a 12 point deduction actually is a good thing kind of tells you how sorry the situation was. But also there's all that potential, there's all those people there willing, ready and able to kind of bring it back to life probably in League 1, but bring it back to life nonetheless.

B (15:53)

Let's look at the top of the championship, then. Coventry 28 points and 12. Everyone's played 12 games. Coventry top, Middlesbrough three points behind them. Millwall in third, Bristol City, Stoke, Charlton making up the playoff places with Preston and Hull below them. We talked about commentary before, Ben, but it is still very impressive. The run they're on is amazing. They are unbeaten. They're the only unbeaten side in the 92. I think so.

C (16:20)

I believe so, yeah.

B (16:21)

It's just so much credit to Frank Lampard, I guess, and a lot of people were suspicious about it and have been for a long time of his managerial ability.

C (16:28)

Yeah. And I remember when he was appointed, going to his unveiling it, the arena and all these questions about, you know, why do you want to do this, Frank? You know, what's sort of the point? You don't need to do this. Well, you know, this is why. This is why he's doing it, because he wants success and, you know, commentary. A massive club, especially with the sort of stable footing they're now on under Doug. They now own the stadium as of August, which is obviously a massive move given all the kind of trials and tribulations they had with that and, you know, being homeless and all the rest of it. Now they're back, they're quite a, you know, they're obviously proving quite a force under Lampard and I think he's showing, he's. He's a good man manager and a good manager is a sort of, you know, all round package. He's got a good team. I don't think we should forget that. I think he inherited a good team. Mark Robbins obviously did a great job there. He's a, you know, Coventry hero, rightly so, but he's. I don't know, he's kind of. He's got more. He's got players playing with maybe a bit more confidence than they had. Particularly sort of in the final third. Haji Wright looks like he's maybe fulfilling some of the promise that he was sort of signed to do. So I think they paid sort of 7,8 million for him in Brandon. Thomas Asante is kind of the man in form. He's the top scorer in the division. Had you, Wright? I think they have the top scorer and the second top scorer. Right. And Thomas Asante, which kind of speaks volumes in itself.

A (17:41)

And top third as well, is he?

C (17:43)

Yeah. So you Know they've got, they've got it going at both ends. In terms of Kyle Rushworth in goal is proven a really good signing. I know he's really highly rated within the fa. On loan from Brighton before the weekend, he hadn't conceded in 600 before last week, so he hadn't conceded in 613 minutes, which is pretty good going. So, yeah, Lampard feels like he's onto something. I don't think it's sort of a massive surprise in the sense that his remit upon coming in was, you know, get us in the playoffs. But I suppose the fact they're top, unbeaten and kind of sailing away is a little bit beyond expectations.

B (18:19)

Yeah, I mean they've scored 34 goals this season. Next highest Haaland Bristol City have 20. So, you know, that's such a massive difference, isn't it? Middlesbrough are being at home. They've only lost once this season. Rob Edwards doing a very good job. I think people looking at the league will see Millwall in third and raise some eyebrows. George Ted says how will Arsenal fare at the Den in the Premier League next season? How are Millwall third.

A (18:45)

George, tough place to go. Yeah, no, it's because they're good. They're good. You know, Mill would have been a good championship side for a while now and they've probably had limitations because of the way they approach games and the way they've recruited and that's changed over the last two or three years, including the appointment of Alex Neil who, you know, not every job has gone well for Neil but the job he did obviously is a, you know, in the infancy of his managerial career at Norwich, but also the job he did at Sunderland, where he came in mid season at a Sunderland side who were, you know, very much down on their haunches in League 1 and, and he instigated and it was clearly was his impact, you know, the, the rise on the pitch along, you know, there obviously other, other mitigating factors and other factors that, that played into this. But from a management perspective, you know, he was the one who was able to, to finally get Sunderland firing in League one and took them up into the championship. And at Milwau, it feels like he's, he's kind of properly got buy in from everybody and you know that they're really solid defensive unit they've had for a long time. Certainly with Jake Cooper, he's been there for, for a long while. But Tristan Kramer is a player who's, you know, definitely destined for the Premier League or another top European League. A French center back who was, it was at Brentford's, who's just a kind of physical colossus, but also very good on the ball and a goal threat too. But they've also kind of recruited a different profile, I guess of attacking player. You know, Ballo and Aziz on the flanks have both been really, really good. Ivanovic, who's a, a young striker, just 20 years old, but played a lot of minutes, scored a lot of goals last season and is now fit and firing. It just feels like a total shift in terms of the way that they go about, you know, the. There's probably a perception of the way that Millwall should play and Alex Neil hasn't bought into that at all. And they, you know, they've kept hold of that very solid spine and solid unit whilst adding some attacking flair and that they are very good. You know, sometimes at this stage of the season you look at teams that are maybe towards the top end of the table who you go like, yeah, they've had a great start to the season where they're probably going to fall away. And there are a couple of those maybe now, but in Millwall, I think it would be complacent to assume that they aren't in especially this iteration of the championship where it feels so much more open because some of the teams we expected to be too good just aren't. It opens the door for teams like Millwall or Bristol City or Preston where if they do have a that season that can catapult them which previously would have been to the top six or seven. Maybe this is the season where given the, the lack of quality from the parachute payment teams, this is where they could even go further than that.

B (21:09)

Yeah, we'll go on to those relegated ties in just a second. But Sanny, if you were to pick out any other top eight who you think could last the course.

D (21:16)

Well, do you know what? I messaged John T. Sargeant, a friend who's the match presenter at Stoke City and I just asked him a question like, are Stoke actually any good? Because the fifth and they'd beaten quite a few teams below them. He sent me a six minute voice note which I'll try and I'll try and condense.

B (21:35)

That's too long. I'm gonna say from the Stoke Stadium announcer. Six minutes is too long. A voice note. I'm going like 1:30 and I'm going, I'm knocking it on the head there. But, but tell me what it said so you edit it down. That would be really useful.

D (21:50)

Yeah, so yeah, they've beaten quite a few teams below them and the thing is, I guess, I guess the, the. They've been a kind of a victim of the, the FFP kind of situation. Right. There's only so much money to be able to invest and they've invested it quite poorly. But if you got Mark Robbins in and then you remember as we mentioned with Coventry, just how good a job, how good a manager he is and he seems to have got quite a lot of buy in from, from this set of players. I mean they're not what, what he's also because I was at the Stoke Norwich game a couple of weeks ago and if there is such a thing as Stoke DNA, he seems to have tapped into it. So you've got dedicated long throw takers for each side of the pitch so you already get all the fans on side. The players they've got can be quite inconsistent but at the moment they seem to be doing okay. Milian Manhof's one who a couple of weeks ago stormed off when he was subbed off and upset everyone and then there was all this pressure on him. Can he do well? And then he actually just did and then he got everyone back on side again so they got someone mercurial like that. He kind of blows a bit hot and cold. Baejun Ho as well. It's kind of a bit of a mix. But because they've got someone like Robbins in and because the league is so samey and you've got Victor Johansson at the back as a goalkeeper, he's one of the best in the division. I still don't quite fancy them but then logic and everything else I've just found out thanks to, thanks to John C as well. The six Minute audiobook have made me think, yeah, you know what, they might be able to stay the course after all. So that's one of the teams that as a surprise there. Preston similar. But the point is there are so many teams not doing well that someone like Stoke who then have that infrastructure, have that backing, have that money in the future if they were to go into the Premier League could do quite well. So yeah, surprisingly Stoke City might, might just last the course somehow.

B (23:30)

Ben Leicester a 10th, Ipswich are 12th and Southampton are 20th. I mean that's quite a lot to deconstruct I guess. But it is odd that none of the sides that have gone down are firing.

C (23:41)

Yeah, I mean particularly Southampton struggling two league wins out of 12. I saw them last week and there was some really good stuff but they are struggling to get Results under Will Steele, who obviously came in with much excitement and it really, you know, good reputation for the work he'd done in Belgium and France. It's a strange one because Salampton, you know, let's be honest, they've been in this sort of period of gloom for a little while. It's not a new thing for the beginning of this season, but clearly we expected more and I think, you know, they signed probably two of the best players in the championship last season in Tom Fellows and Finn Izaz from West Brom in Middlesbrough respectively. So you're thinking, okay, that's a, you know, sort of a cheat code maybe to just reinforce in the everything else that you've already got in the team. Shae Charles coming back from alone at Sheffield Wednesday, but it's just not quite happening for them. They're struggling to score as many goals as they would like. Cameron Archer struggling up front. Adam Armstrong's a bit hit and miss, I don't think. He maybe knows will steal the best team yet, which is, you know, always a bit of a worrying thing at this or sign at this stage. But as you say, they're not the only ones. Leicester started quite well and we had that kind of reassuring center half partnership of Wout Fass in Yannick Vestergaard once again in the championship, but just feels a little bit stale to me there. I think maybe the solution there is try and I mean they are starting Jeremy Monga, the 16 year old who's just insanely good, insanely talented and they've had some other academy players in the first team, Louis Page, I don't know, maybe they just need to kind of just shift it again in terms of refreshing it a little bit. I mean they've tried, they have brought in new players, Jordan, James and Ramsay on loan. But yeah, as you say, it's not quite happening. Ipswich, I think again, you know, with Kieran Mckenna you kind of thought, okay, this is, this is all going to be fine, it's all going to work out. And I think it, it may still well do. I'd probably be less worried about then than Southampton in Leicester at the moment because the other Southampton, Leicester just feels something's not quite right.

D (25:39)

Just on Leicester. I was at the game against Wrexham where they had a load of chances and didn't quite manage to finish it and Marty Sifuente said they were a bit arrogant actually and that's kind of one word for it. But I mean the biggest issue they've got is, and it's insane that they just didn't manage to do this. They just haven't replaced Jamie Vardy at all. There's just no real talisman up there. I mean you've got Patson. Dakar was starting games and he's just not that sort of player. You know, he's a bit streaky as well. He's not really got that physical presence. Yeah, you take Jordan James and Aaron Ramsey, both lone players out the side and then you're kind of relying on Futawu Mavadidi to put crosses in and maybe a trundling IU to kind of do something with it. It's quite amazing that they're in this situation where recruitment has been so like short sighted or just not kind of holistic that they're in this position. But then that's again one of the things the fans will point to and say, well you know, we've been talking about the ownership kind of letting things slide for quite a while but they have got all that money, they have got that parachute money in the future, you know, similar to the other clubs we mentioned as well. So you can still turn it around. But again it feels quite simple. It feels quite simple to go and do that and try and you know, have something a bit more like solid going forward, like some options and you just haven't done it. And it's quite remarkable they're in that.

B (26:53)

Situation trundling IO sounds like the worst of the three brothers. Sorry George.

A (27:02)

Well, it's just funny with Leicester how you know and it's not funny for her fans but you'd almost assume it's a different owner because last time they came down from the Premier League to the championship, you know, the, the spend on the likes of Cody and Winx was massive. They went out and got Maresca and obviously the issue is that has left them in financial difficulty and has mean that we're still waiting to find out what the point seduction is going to be assuming there is going to be one this season but you know, we're waiting to find out what that's going to be. They didn't basically sign any players all summer until right at the end of the of the window. They hired Martisa Fuentes who did an amazing job at qpr but is a very, very different profile of manager to Enzo Maresca. Like it was almost as if they, they, they got the blueprint right two years ago and obviously circumstances, you know, meant they couldn't go and do exactly that again. But I'm surprised how they, there was no attempt to Kind of repeat the trick at all in terms of playing style and the profile of player they've recruited. But as Ben says, you know, in particular in manga and also, you know, Fatal was another one because he's played for a couple of seasons, still incredibly young. You know, they've got two wide players there who are destined for big things.

B (28:10)

All right, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll cover the rest of the championship. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Can we touch on Birmingham City and Wrexham for a second, Ben? Because there was so much expectation around these clubs and. And neither of them are. I mean, a few people saying they will just go, you know, bounce straight up again. Are you surprised at how they're getting on?

C (28:42)

But I mean, Birmingham made quite a good start and it's kind of fizzled out a little bit. I saw them on Saturday, I thought there were some good things. There was, I don't know, maybe a tendency to overplay that. That is kind of the style that they came up with, obviously. And it worked absolutely in League one they have signed against so many new players, so it's been like a kind of total reset really, that it's not. Not loads and loads of players from last season and I think they do want to kick on, but I don't know, I think. Have I been surprised. I think they're probably where we expected. I maybe expected them to be a little bit better, but I think, you know, it's just not that straightforward to come up and kind of blow the league away, as you know, other teams have found. Wrexham, I think are probably. They were probably a weaker squad. I did really like their summer recruitment. I mean, people will argue it was kind of a bit old fashioned maybe or whatever. Obviously getting Keith and Moore in and I really like Lewis o' Brien who was at Swansea. Cody's not really worked, but obviously Danny Ward is now injured for several months. But I quite like that. I thought that kind of made sense, especially with Phil Parkinson in charge. But again, I don't think they'll be in trouble in terms of going down. So I think it's sort of mission accomplished from that perspective if that's the case. Birmingham, I think are so ambitious. It's just trying to sort of constrain that and maybe just rein that in. Probably just Tom Wagner himself is just so desperate to mix it with Aston Villa in the Premier League. But it doesn't have to happen this season. So I think, yeah, there's plenty of good stuff there. They have had A little wobble by their standards, I suppose, but I think that's what happens when you get 111 points in League One.

B (30:20)

Birmingham 15th, Wrexham 16th. I guess George, with Wrexham, like, how many seasons can you finish in mid table for a documentary? Gets boring.

A (30:29)

They'll find a way, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, one I think is okay. I was at Wrexham on Wednesday night, beating my Team Oxford 1 nil in their first home win of the season. And their home form has been so important to the way that they've progressed up the league. So you could kind of very much feel the relief when the final whistle went and they were pretty good. Like, I was really unimpressed with them early in the season. It felt like they recruited in a very weird way for the start of play that they were trying to play. You know, they were playing a really high line, which wasn't really the way they've had success in the past and isn't really the way that Phil Parkinson's had success in the past with really slow defenders. And teams were finding incredibly easy to beat them on the turn and get in behind. What we saw, what I saw on Wednesday night was much more the blueprint where they went ahead and then they sat deeper, especially when I went down to 10 men and they just headed everything away and they were a real threat on the counter attack and they had by far the best chances of the game, even 11b10 in the second half. So, you know, I kind of think any expectations that they were going to be one of the best teams in the league this season weren't particularly well researched just because, you know, they're a team who got 79 points. I think it was last season. Yes, they've recruited well, but it's a massive gap. And you know, I think for this season, for them to. To just consolidate would be. Would be a season well done. And I think, you know, I would say in the first three or four or five games of the season, there were definitely alarm bells ringing. They might be one of the poorest teams in the league and those fears are kind of being allayed now. But we're in that kind of funniest part of the season now where, because we've seen enough games now, we kind of assume that everyone's settling into the. To where they're going to end up being for the whole season, and that's just not the case. You know, teams who are currently 17th, 18th can still easily mount the top six. Challenge teams are in the top six can easily still get into relegation battle like it's still so early on and with both Rex and Birmingham, you know, I guess anything is still possible.

B (32:19)

So at the bottom, chevy Wednesday have -6 points, Norwich have 8, Sheffield United 9, Blackburn 10. Before we go into those other three sides, Sheffield Wednesday Ben might what might have more points deduction.

C (32:31)

Yes. So they for the non payment of wages in March and May that's there's a hearing, there's a date set for that which point another points deduction is likely and then for more recent or this season's late payment. So that's relating to June, July and September breaches. That is also likely to end in more points clearly given where they're at I think what 16, 17 points off safety. I don't think anybody you know is expecting them to stay up. So really it's probably not going to change too much. But if anything it's just another indictment of quite how badly Chancery ran Sheffield Wednesday, you know, during his certainly the latter part of his 10 year brain.

B (33:12)

We had so many questions about Norwich City Sanny, five defeats in a row now for Liam Manning who did such a great job at Bristol City is this. Are we just waiting for the inevitable there?

D (33:23)

Well the last time we talked about the manager of Norwich City I suggested Johannes Hofftorrup might be on his way out. George wasn't pleased with that and he was sacked I think just as producer Joel Press published. So here we are again, winless and eight. Yeah, I do kind of feel the fact that he's alone, local, local boy is the, I think the one final thing that's giving him that period of grace and he's quite close with the head of recruitment, Ben Napper and a lot of those players that they brought in just haven't really kicked on at all. The home form in particular is absolutely atrocious and it's amazing how to still just an over reliant on, on on Josh Sargent just to kind of get him out of a, out of a hole, you know, play on the shoulder to try and get a ball over to him and, and make something happen and you can nullify that. Yeah, it's just really quite depressing because last season under different management of course they were kind of here, there and everywhere because they'd score like five goals at home and be like, you know, all over the place and it's brilliant and then just couldn't keep it together. But you knew there were players with ability then some of those have moved on and a lot have come in and none of those have really kind of come together at all. So, like, yeah, it's, it's very worrying. I thought that after the Bristol City game, which of course Liam Manning's old team, that might be the final straw and he's lost the next two after that. So given all that, I'm pretty worried about where they're up to. They need to do something at home. They've got whole City on the weekend. If that doesn't go well, then they're in real dire straits. And after that, be away to Sheffield Wednesday, a resurgent Wednesday with the fans in the stands on the opposite of Norwich. And that I think would be the end for him, which would be a real shame because, I mean, Manning, he overperformed at Bristol City. I think we could say that this all kind of matched as far as, you know, his connection to the club, but it isn't. Hasn't worked at all.

A (35:10)

There are reports that the American owner is on his way to Norfolk to meet Ben Napper and Liam Manning, but with his full support. Now, I know that obviously the old dreaded voter confidence comes in here and whether or not that's true, we'll see. But I think some of the frustration, well, a lot of the frustration from the fan base isn't just at Manning. It is at Nappa, the director of football, who obviously sacked Janice Hof Thorp last season, which I would say it hasn't aged overly well given what's happened since. Who appointed Manning? He was very much the, you know, identified Manning early on in the summer and got his man. The transfer recruitment has been kind of left field at the mo. The kind of time of the purchase going through has been celebrated for the most part, but the players don't look anywhere near up to it. And also frustration with the owners for kind of a lack of urgency, frustration with some stadium issues as well. It's a club that is, or a fan base at least, that basically has grievances with every single aspect of the club. And maybe that's why a little bit of the heat, because often when it's an underperforming team, it's a fan base who are united and vociferous are matchday against the manager, whereas with Norwich City fans, they're unanimous and vociferous against basically everyone in charge of any aspect of the football club right now. And the only. And one of the reasons why I think possibly Manning is. Is maybe safer than it would seem and possibly safer than, well, definitely safer than Norwich fans would like is because he is so wedded to Nappa, where if Ben Napa were to, were to sack him, it would be a massive admission of a mistake that might see him lose his own job too. So it's a, it's a bit of a mess there right now. I watched their game against Derby on Tuesday night and in the first half they were really good. Like they were by far the better team. Just couldn't find a way to score the goal. Then the second half, Derby with a better team and find a way to win it. They lost 2:1 on Saturday in a really marginal game. One by two, brilliant strikes from, from Xander Potnik. They're a combination of, of bad and luckless at the moment where, you know, when they're bad, they lose. They lost five games in a row at home in games where it's relatively tight and in the spells of the games where they're on top, they can't find a way just to get the ball in the back of the net and make it count. And normally when you have that combination of factors, it ends up with the manager losing their job.

D (37:26)

£25 million is what they spent in the championship. That's quite a lot of money. Fiskard and I think just under 7 million pound. Best performer has been Javon Makama from Lincoln City. So yeah, it's not works whatsoever. Yeah, I wonder what that owner is going to say when he comes over now.

B (37:41)

He's got to find an airfield in Norfolk which is clearly impossible first, isn't it? So, you know, good luck to. Just kidding my east anglian compatriots. Quick one on Sheffield United. Ben 22nd. Not where I expected them to be.

C (37:55)

No, Chris Wilder's obviously gone back in. Obviously. Start under Ruben Sayers was, was disastrous. Yeah. And it's not quite happened for Wilder. I, I wouldn't be too concerned. I just think they have too good a squad but clearly they've leave themselves a lot to do. It's, you know, as Sandy said earlier, is still early days but been very hit and miss so far. But I think they'll be okay and get away from trouble.

D (38:19)

He's got, he's got a good beard on the go by the way. Chris Wilder, he started getting his gray little beard. Yeah, yeah. It's quite cool actually. You know, gives him an extra edge.

C (38:25)

He is cool.

A (38:26)

He looks quite cool.

B (38:27)

Jennifer say hit and miss when they've lost nine out of 12, Ben. That's a sort of missing miss is what it sounds like. But you know, they have turned up, they have turned Up a bit more since Wilder left. Anyway, look.

C (38:36)

Yeah.

B (38:37)

Do you want to do 20 seconds on Oxford, George? Your beloved Oxford?

A (38:40)

Yeah, why not? A good week for us. Six points from three games, albeit a disappointing display against Wrexham. Managed to go to Sheffield Wednesday and kind of spoil the party. Albeit Wednesday were phenomenal in the second half. 20 down at half time. Wednesday was. Got one back early in the second half and it was wave after wave of pressure, but couldn't find a way to score the equalizer. So Gary Rowett's doing Gary Rowett things, as is always the case when he's at a club and doing quite well. There is a part of the fan base who don't really like it because the football isn't necessarily what they want to go and watch every week. I think that's harsh. I think in games this season, certainly the Bristol City away game, which Ben might have seen, were very, very good in that game and really took the game to a side who won the best in the championship this season. And in the one that win against Derby, a game that could have finished kind of three or four nil. I often think the perception, the managers can end up being their undoing because if they're seen as being a dinosaur who plays dinosaur football, that's what fans see even when it's not necessarily the case. And I think with Oxford now, when they're. When they're bad, it's bad, but when they're good, it's not just back to the wall, you know, parking the bus and hoping to grind out a win.

B (39:40)

Okay, just before we end part two, Ben, you wanted to mention some sad news regarding Bristol City.

C (39:44)

Yeah, really sad news. Sadly, former player Marvin Brown has died. Age 42, he's remains the club's youngest player. When he played for the club, age 16, played and coached the City Academy, worked with the under 18s, including, you know, Antoine Semeno, Tommy Conway, Sam Bell, numerous other players. And there is a charity match a week on Sunday at Bath City's Twer and Park, raising money for Marvin's family, his wife and two children. Yeah, just extremely sad news. So, yeah, our thoughts with Marvin's family and the wider. Yeah, team, team. Marvin Brown.

B (40:22)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well said. Yeah, he passed away of a very rare form of cancer. Just giving that fundraiser that you mentioned has raised more than 63,000 pounds in donations as well. But check it out. If you have a few spare pennies, that'll do for part two. We'll cover league one and league two in part three. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. With apologies to League one and League two fans, of which I am one. We don't have a huge amount of time. It's Brendan Rodgers fault. In League one we have new leaders. Stockport county two points clear of Cardiff, Stevenage and Bradford with AFC Wimbledon and Lincoln City making up the playoff places in Bolton Wanderers just a point behind at the bottom, Peterborough bottom Blackpool second bottom, Plymouth, Port Vale, Burton and Reading making up the bottom six. Jordy, if you were to pick out some interesting Stories from League 1, where would you go?

A (41:18)

I think Stockpile have to be the story. They were brilliant on Monday night, beating Port Vale 30 a game where they scored all three goals in the first half an hour or so. It's funny, it's followed a very similar pattern to happen in League 2, where in League 2, Dave Challenger. Stockport lost in the playoffs. Started the next season looking really flat and like they had a bit of a hangover from the playoffs and then kind of in September, early October time turned the screw and ended up winning the league. This time around, Stockport county were beaten in the playoffs. Started the season looking really poor. They picked up better results. They didn't League 2, but any stopped fan would say they weren't looking very good. And suddenly in September and October they're turning around. They now sit top of the League one like patterns in football are sometimes quite strange and feels like for whatever reason they're a side who, who have a struggle to play well off the back of disappointment but then use that to fuel them and right now they look like, you know, I'd say with Cardiff and certainly Bolton, who are one to look out four who are down in seventh but have an amazing player in Amario Cosia Dubri, who came through at Arsenal and was kind of seen for a time as being like a possible, you know, Saka Wanieri, one of these Arsenal kids was going to come through and play for the first team, but he made the decision to move to Brighton. He had a really disappointing loan last season at Blackburn where he really failed to make an impact to championship level, which was a surprise given how highly rated he is. But often the first loans are difficult. He's now dropped down to League one and he's just way too good. In the space of just over a week he scored two 94th minute winners, the first coming against Huddersfield where Blackburn scored twice in injury time and he scored the second of those. And then against Cardiff, the team who were top of the league, a nil, nil game there hadn't been a single shot on target all game and the ball falls to him 25 yards out and he scores a left footed unbelievable strike into top left hand corner. So Stockport certainly the team who deserved to be top now but I would say Bolton and Cosia Dubri under Shoey, maybe the dark horses and the ones that I would, you know, I'd see those two in Cardiff as probably being the three class teams in the league.

B (43:06)

Jack Wilsher got his first win as Luton manager, 1 nil away at Northampton. What have you made of, of his decision, Ben, and, and, and how he's getting on so far?

C (43:15)

Sort of exciting I suppose. I really like Luton as a club. I think they got some really good people there. Sort of sensible thinking people. Nice to see him give an opportunity. Obviously had those couple of games at Norwich. He's obviously had a great education in the game. Worked under so many, you know, amazing managers. Obviously that first win, I'm surprised, I think they lost to Mansfield in his opening game. And so often when you see that, you know, new manager come in, we do see that, you know, they just get a result. But obviously he didn't have that kind of dream start. So now he's up and running and just in that game I was reading that Cameron Mcgeehan for the Northampton for the opposition. He played through the pain barrier. He broke his ribs at the start of the month and wasn't due to play. And then Dean Campbell went down in the warm up so he said I'll step in. And he played the full 90 minutes. So it made me think what would I do, you know, sort of pain wise to carry on. I don't think I've got the same levels of resilience as him.

B (44:09)

I used to play for us, good player. I mean if anyone, anyone who has broken your ribs, their ribs, that's when you really notice how often you breathe because it hurts every time. You breathe in and you breathe all the time. And if you're playing football, unless he just stood motionless like Jan Molby, he'd have been breathing quite heavily. So fair play, fair play to him. Barry says who do the panel think would be the best fit for the Peterborough job for six months before they reappoint Darren Ferguson next summer? Yes. So Darren McCantney sacked Darren Ferguson and sort of sent him a love letter in a statement. It was not like the Celtic statement. I think that's fair to say. So Peterborough have sacked him. They are bottom, which seems a surprise to me, Sanni, because they're all sort of in around the playoff places. But everyone's saying this season, this is sort of not surprising, that they're there.

D (44:53)

Yeah, well, they moved on most of the. Their best players, even Ricky J Jones, who again, like, it's a bit inconsistent. I think he's off to the Bundesliga, if he's not already gone. Yeah, Like Kwame Poku. Like, they've had a stream essentially of recruiting really good players, players with potential from lower down the league, and Darren Ferguson's turned them around, polished them up and they've gone on to do really well and it's finally kind of come a bit unstuck as far as who they then got in to replace them. So it's, it's, it's a bit unfortunate. I don't know. Like the answer, by the way, the answer to the question.

B (45:32)

He's Donny, isn't he? I was thinking, normally it's just. They just. They interchange.

A (45:35)

They're on a.

D (45:36)

They're on a bad run. You never know.

B (45:37)

Oh, wow.

D (45:38)

So that'll be an easy one. Knows the club, knows the area, maybe probably still has a house there, who knows? It's funny, we started this pod talking about Celtic and you couldn't get two more opposing statements from two of the directors. You know, that one for Ferguson talking about, he's part of the family and he's always welcome, he's always greatest of all time, but yet recruitment essentially has not been great to replace players. They've moved on and all in all it's not come together whatsoever. And I guess that's kind of inevitable when you are a selling club like they've had to be.

A (46:08)

Reports seem to suggest that Luke Williams is the front runner who would be a very interesting appointment. He's not necessarily the profiler manager that I would be appointing if my club were 24th of 24 with 10 points at this stage of the season. He's someone who's achieved incredible success with Knott's county in the past. He's a very bright, intelligent guy who we actually posted interview with him on not top 20 a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, the, the playing style that he's associated with, it became quite obvious there that, you know, he's kind of seen as being an idealist, but he sees possession football as being almost pragmatic, where it's a case of, you know, if you have the football, then the opposition can't. Can't score. But because of that kind of extreme style of football, you know, I think Darren McCanty surely has to make an appointment that understands the predicament that they're in right now and. And to save them right now and maybe make an appointment like Luke Williams next summer. It kind of reminds me a little bit of when Luton sat Rob Edwards last year and the appointment of Matt Bloomfield didn't really seem to understand the situation they were in. Like they needed to bring in someone not to take them forward over the next two or three years, but someone to. To ensure they were still in that league at the end of the season. Who that is, I'm not really sure. You know, they're obviously the likely candidates. You know, Matt Bloomfield, who I just mentioned there, seems like one who. Who possibly could go in, although couldn't do the championship last season, but has had success at a League one level before. And what about Steve Evans, the new look? Steve Evans, having worked with Peterborough before, he's. He's second favorite with the bookies. I don't think I can quite see that, but maybe, you know, in terms of the job at hand, he'd be a better fit.

B (47:39)

Sanni, it's three minutes until you lecture students in. Where are you? In Salford, is that right?

D (47:44)

Yeah, University of Salford. They're actually some of them out the door because these days they come early.

B (47:49)

They're on it.

D (47:50)

Incredible.

B (47:50)

Amazing.

D (47:51)

Yeah, yeah. At some point I'll invite them in the room. They can log in. That. That gives a bit more time. Don't worry, you know, logging in is a good 10 minutes.

B (47:57)

Hopefully it's not on like timekeeping in broadcasting situations. But look, you can give your answer on League 2 and then you can, you know, set up your overhead projector or whatever you use these days.

D (48:09)

No, it's still an overhead projector. Okay, good.

B (48:11)

So look, Walsall have 26 points, are top. Cambridge have 21 points and they're 13th. So it is bunched up in which is always the least predictable league. I mean, I don't need to read out all the look at the table if you want to see who's where. But, like, what's your big take? What's your hot take on League 2?

D (48:30)

Yeah, it's quite ludicrous. They're all so close together. Well, Wall's wobbles started early, therefore, without win three defeats in that, you know, Matt Sadler refreshed the side. They've gone again the top of the table. Remember last season how they were so far ahead and it all kind of fell apart? That's a bit of a worry. Ian Holloway again doing brilliant stuff. Aaron Dryden's been fantastic for Them loads of goals. They've had Ollie Palmer come in from Wrexham who's starting mostly on the bench but again like you know the sort of impact and MK dons, you know we predicted them for the. For the top and it's taken a while with all the new players they brought in but they're coming together I suppose Salford City the other surprise so they're currently third. I mean I'll be at the tables kind of a bit as you say all everywhere but maybe after all this time things are finally coming together but yeah, it could be. Could be anyone really could be anyone. So you know, toss a coin toss a few.

B (49:18)

George, your thoughts on League 2.

A (49:20)

I really like Barnett who came up from the National League as champions last year.

B (49:25)

Just signed British on Belonger haven't they scored the winner against Cambridge in the EFL trophy. I was looking at that going is that like. I just presumed it was his son. You know when you're looking at that going I mean probably his son's probably 11 but you know you have one of those moments.

A (49:37)

He had a spell at Watford a couple of years ago. It's called a few goals. It may have been playing in Turkey recently. I mean it's a funny one with. With a somber longer because Barnett's underlying numbers, their XG numbers are very, very good and it's almost as if they're like right who's a free agent who's really good at finishing and does nothing else. Ah, Princeton belong is free. Let's give them a call. Whether that works we'll have to see but they, they struggled in the first three or four games of the season. I, I think it's understandable given the, you know, the probably the change in intensity from the National League to League two. But now they're kind of settled under Dean Brennan. They look a really, really good side. Very, very strong defensively and creating good chances. The other end will be frustrated not to have beaten Barrows in the game on Saturday given they were 21 up against 10 men that kind of Barrow put them the sucker punch when they were. When they were dominating. They're 11th at the moment but sorry, 12th at the moment but 12th is only five points off top spot and they're a team who I think I'd be very. If they carry on playing the way they're playing I think they have a serious shout of. Of going back to back.

C (50:36)

I just think we should flag Tom Lockyer's comeback for Bristol Rovers. I think he said 679 days after you know, his heart essentially stopped working on the pitch at Bournemouth for Luton and he made a comeback for Bristol Rovers on Saturday, albeit in a. In a bad game for them. But what a story to see Tom back on the pitch in sort of any, you know, frankly any capacity to get back. He said, you know, he will cherish every minute now. Rightly so. So, yeah, great, great for him. And a great story going back to Bristol Rovers where his sort of first club who he joined at 16, Rovers have struggled actually. They've conceded, I think 14 goals in the last four games. They do need a bit of defensive solidity. I'm sure Tom Lock here will, will bring that and, and just sort of continuing a bit of a West country theme, I suppose. Steve Cottrell at Cheltenham, talking of managers going back and Darren Ferguson, we've seen it a bit. Chris Wilder. Steve Cottrell has gone back to Cheltenham where, you know, he's. He was a hero and he's really done brilliantly. Picked up several wins I think most recent one against Walsall who obviously top. So yeah, great, great start for Steve Cottrell.

B (51:41)

Yeah, three in the last four for Cheltenham. So at the bottom, normally there's two teams that are just adrift. I don't know if I can talk to you now, Sani, or if you'll feel the pressure of the students or you'll just turn and go. Just call me Sani. Look, Newport have 11 points, Crawley 12, Akrington 12, Shrewsby 13. Cheltenham as you mentioned, 14. Harrogate 14. That is tight down there.

A (52:00)

Yeah.

D (52:01)

And Cheltenham with Steve Cottrell coming in just emphasizes just how easy it is to turn things. Yeah, I kind of think Crawley is the kind of the one where he had that investment and then, you know, things went here, there and everywhere they went up and then now they're down at the bottom and Accrington are kind of. Accrington are always having to do this, right. They're always having to pick up lower league players and casts offs from here, there and everywhere. It's hard to kind of tell. Not quite feeling the pressure of all these students kind of milling around. A few of them are like just having a catch up.

B (52:31)

They saying who got off with who last night at the freshest fair or whatever. Okay, cheers, Sani. Bugger off.

D (52:38)

All right, cheers guys.

B (52:39)

Final word to George then on the bottom of League 2 and then we can all go home.

A (52:45)

It's just very tight. There was an assumption that Newport county were going to be the worst team in the league. Preseason and early results have Kind of supported that. But their. Their defeats, they've lost nine games this season. I think seven of them have been by a solitary goal. And they went to Harrogate last weekend when the pressure was on and beat them 3, 0. So I wouldn't quite quite write them off yet. And it is bunched down there and there are a couple of teams higher up the table. You know, Bristol Rovers have lost four games. So we've lost three games, four n in a row. And that is a. A worrying downward trend, obviously, in terms of their budget and. And Daryl Clark, as a manager who's had immense success, I'm a huge fan of. He's also overseen huge kind of spirals in his time as a manager too, at Bristol Rovers and a Port Vale. And they need to arrest that slide pretty quickly because there is a precedent for teams coming down from League one, going straight back down from League two, International League. We've had two in the last two seasons, so I'd be a little bit concerned about them as it stands at the moment. But there seemed, you know, a couple of weeks ago, it felt like Newport and Cheltenham were already being relegated by. By some people. I think it's going to be much more open than that. And anyone from kind of 15th downwards at the moment is. Is certainly looking in danger, needs to improve.

B (53:50)

All right, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Ben.

C (53:53)

Cheers, Max.

B (53:53)

Thanks, George.

A (53:54)

Cheers, Max.

B (53:55)

Sorry for calling you a fraud in the intro. I didn't mean it.

D (53:58)

It's okay.

A (53:58)

I've been called worse. It's all right.

B (54:00)

Yeah, no, that's true. Me too. And I wonder if I can say thank you, Sanny. He's just. It's interesting. He's just marching up and down the corridor.

A (54:07)

He's turned his camera around to look.

B (54:08)

At you, see the students. It's good. It was. There he is. He's put his headphones back in. Thank you, Sanny.

D (54:17)

Thank you.

B (54:18)

All right. That's all we needed just.

D (54:19)

Just to spot. To hear that.

B (54:23)

And Football Weekly is produced by Do Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens will be back on Thursday.

A (54:34)

This is the Guardian.