Barry Glendenning (1:59)

Hi Max.

Max (2:00)

Hello Jordan. Jarrett Boran.

Barry Glendenning (2:02)

Morning mate.

Max (2:03)

Welcome. Sam darling.

Sam (2:05)

Hello Max.

Max (2:05)

And friend of the pod. Host of the RGC podcasts Barca. Jim. Jim Burke, Celtic fan. Welcome Jim.

Jim Burke (2:12)

How you doing, Max? All right?

Max (2:13)

Yeah, yeah.

Jim Burke (2:15)

Far too often these days.

Max (2:19)

Do you know what I mean? Okay, so Paul says Wilford Nancy discuss. It's fascinating story about sort of how he was appointed and and how they've gone and the timing of the appointment and we have touched on in previous pods but like I said, lost four in a row for the first time since 1978. My first thought was a stat from before I was born. Mull of Kintyre by wings was number one at this time. Jim, you lost 2:1 to Dundee United last night, which was Dundee United's first time they've been Celtic in 11 years, their first win in eight. So it's unlike the three previous defeats, which have been difficult games, I guess. And Celtic were unlucky in this game, I guess.

Jim Burke (2:58)

I think that's a very kind synopsis. We didn't have a shot in target after the 13th minute, max. We started really well with first 10 minutes or so. We started really well. But then it was more a case of Dundee United been bad than us being good. And then at halftime Jim Goodwin got Dundee United in sort a couple of tactical tweaks and we never laid a glove on them for 45 minutes. And I know, let's deal with the entitlement thing right away. Everybody's going to say, celtic fans, you win everything. But what you all complaining about, we expect better from the resources that we've got. It's as simple as that. And, and to be outplayed by Dundee United for 45 minutes and not lay a glove on them for another 35 minutes, that's not really on, Max.

Max (3:50)

I mean, Chris Sutton said, look after that Maida Miss, you might just wonder if it's not meant to be for Wilfred. Nancy, bottom line is it's more substandard players than the manager. It all goes back to a poor summer. Celtic look like a third place team at present. Is that fair? I mean, it's not just him, right?

Jim Burke (4:04)

It's absolutely fair. We, I think Barry wrote a really good piece about Celtic and it just is the fact that this is all of their own doing, you know, this isn't external forces working against Celtic. This is a lot of grown men shooting themselves in the foot. Brendan was at his games, bringing him into conflict with the board. Tisdale, the man from that footballing hub of Exeter.

Max (4:35)

No disrespect to Exeter, by the way, of course.

Jim Burke (4:37)

Well, you can say that, Max. I'm going heavily on disrespect to Exeter. In fact, here we go. I'm creating beef with Exeter. Everything was just self inflicted. That's the bottom line. We weren't a result of external forces. We have brought this upon ourselves and I can't see any. I mean the manager before the game said, football, Matt, it's trial and error really. Trial and error. You're getting paid whatever, you're getting paid. Football management isn't trial and error.

Max (5:17)

Well, maybe he's right. I mean this is the thing. Maybe I was thinking about this because he. Obviously he's fascinating in the Venn diagram that he posted, which turned out to be a sort of accidental. Just trying to change his profile pic. But if you haven't seen it, it is like any Venn diagram and a great chance to talk about Venn diagrams that I don't think we've ever had since I started the pod. Things you can control on one side, things that matter on the other, and a little shaded bit in the middle with, you know, what you should focus on. And, you know, a bit like football being trial and error, like strip it back. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's trying to say there's an existential point here, that football doesn't matter. That's what he's been brought to Celtic to do, to make this deeper than it is. But I, but, you know, there is, it is fascinating that there is a real sort of Russell Martin vibe to the way he talks about the game.

Jim Burke (6:07)

Well, exactly. And the thing is, I say, Max, I've said this to you before. You start to sound very much like you're pitching for one of those high performance type gigs, mate. That was all a bit too. You know who I mean. But that, actually, that's the Russell Martin thing's not a bad thing to bring up because Celtics should have learned from looking across the city what happens when you bring in somebody who maybe hasn't operated at a level where the demands on them are so big. It was clear to me after two games that Nancy was out of his depth and nothing has happened since then to change. I mean, after the game we were close to winning.

Sam (6:52)

Come on, you were.

Max (6:54)

But I know he's not wrong.

Barry Glendenning (6:58)

Well, he said after the game, I think I'm in a good direction with the players today. You saw we had a good performance. We are improving. We are close to winning. Keep the faith. Celtic fans are going to want to hear that after their fourth consecutive defeat and they've just been beaten by Dundee United. I mean, we've, we've already spoken at length about the recruitment, the, the agm. We mentioned on Monday where Celtic fans were condescended to and sneered at by the club hierarchy to within an inch of their lives. But the thing is, Wilfred, Nancy coming in, he came in on the back of a very underwhelming run with Columbus Crew. Before that, he was pretty underwhelming, I think, at Montreal Impact. Now, Paul Tisdale, who Jim mentioned, their former head coach of Exeter City. I think Paul listens to this podcast or. He certainly used to. But Paul, I like him. He's that guy, you know, he wears. He used to stand on the cross. Yeah, the cravat and the pork pie hat. Good guy. I. I had some dealings with him, just. He got in touch once after something we'd said. I think it was the pod, not the radio show, but. So he worked with Kwame Ampadu, Ethan's father, at Exeter, and Kwame worked with Wilfred Nancy at Columbus Crew, and is now his number two at Celtic. So people are putting two and two together, possibly getting five, but they're assuming that the link between Tisdale and Ampadu and Ampadu and Nancy is the reason Nancy rocked up at Celtic Park. And we don't know for sure because Paul Tisdale doesn't speak publicly. But I suspect Paul probably isn't that popular at Celtic at the moment because he's in charge of recruitment. And the recruitment, I think it's fair to say, has been pretty dismal since the summer.

Max (9:01)

Yeah, I mean, I suppose the thing is, Jim, like, it doesn't matter if you appoint somebody, you know, if it's good and goes well. In the same way, it doesn't matter if your appointment is left field and it works, but if it doesn't work, it immediately becomes completely nonsensical.

Jim Burke (9:17)

It's exactly it. And, you know, the mood with the fans even before his appointment wasn't great. There's a kind of narrative that it's the youth and the malcontents that are driving the complaints against the board and whatever. That's really not the case. There's a much wider discomfort amongst the support, simply on the basis that we look at the resources we've got and we really shouldn't. I mean, 10 months ago, we ran Bayern Munich really close in the Champions League, and in the space of 10 months, we're now being well beaten by a Saint Merlin team and a Dundee United team in the space of three days. Now, at some point, somebody has to ask the question, why has that happened? And the only logical explanation for me is you look at the board and that includes all of the recruitment in terms of both players and management, and also the potential issues with Brendan as well. It starts at the board and it really should finish with the board, but at the same time, the fans at the moment, I mean, what are wits.

Barry Glendenning (10:24)

End, Jim, Peter Law, the chairman, he announced yesterday he's stepping down because of the abuse he's been subjected to. And I think, to be fair, the Celtic fans could have behaved better at that agm. I. I don't think that's an unfair assessment. So it isn't entirely Lol and Desmond and Desmond's son's fault that that AGM was shut down so quickly. But will he be missed? Has he done. He must have done some good work over the years because Celtic were winning all around them.

Jim Burke (11:03)

He has always been a very divisive figure in the support. He has had periods where he has been very popular, but a lot of it he has been very unpopular simply because there's been various times where we maybe should have kept on. The Bayern Munich situation is one and he has become a bit of a figurehead in some fans eyes for the failure to do that the agm. I suspect that Law will show the opportunity to draw what would have been a potentially very difficult and the fans did give him the opportunity to draw that AGM to a close. The boon and the pantomime booing and hissing when he walked in and holding up the red cards. I didn't follow it live. I was working and then when I saw it I thought, oh, the fans, oh my goodness, how stupid. You shouldn't have given them the opportunity. Then I saw Ross Desmond's comments and I thought, well, fair enough, lads. So, yes, there was a bit of blame attached to the fans, Barry, but I can't get away from the fact that the current board and its current situation is manifestly unfit for purpose.

Max (12:21)

Yeah. Peter Law said, I believe that my 18 years as chief executive and three years as chairman at the club have shown my ability to meet and overcome challenges on many fronts. But abuse and threats from some sources have increased and are now intolerable. They have dismayed and alarmed my family. At this stage of my life, I don't need this. I cannot accept this. And so I leave the club I've loved all my life. The motivations and aims of these detractors can be investigated by others. I prefer to look back on my career at Celtic with deep gratitude and satisfaction. What happens now, Jim?

Jim Burke (12:51)

We've got a blueprint what to do when a manager isn't fit for purpose and I think we have to go with that. Truthfully, if they put me in charge of Celtic at 9 o' clock this morning, it would be a strange move, I'll say that.

Max (13:06)

You don't even follow the AGM live. Call yourself a real fan?

Jim Burke (13:09)

Exactly. I would say to the manager, look, you're a square peg in a round hole. Thank you. But off you go. And then just reinstall the management team that was there before. And I'm not Martin o' Neill's biggest fan, incidentally. I've got issues with Martin, but put Martin o', Neill, Sean Maloney and Mark Fotheringham back in charge of first team matters and see if we can rescue the season.

Barry Glendenning (13:36)

I mean, Martin o' Neill hasn't exactly been helpful because he rolled a grenade in on Monday when he went on talksport and blithely announced that he'd have happily stayed there till the end of the season if he'd been asked, but he wasn't asked, so. And a lot of Celtic fans think he should have been left in charge for the hearts, Roma and St Mirren games. But then if you do that, it shows you've no confidence in the guy you're appointing, so they obviously have. That might have been sensible with the benefit of hindsight, but it isn't exactly a vault of confidence in. In the new guy.

Max (14:22)

No. Sam, did you want to come in?

Sam (14:24)

Oh, I was just gonna say a similar thing about the o' Neill element. Doesn't help a new manager, right? When you stick a club legend in as an interim and then say to someone that none of the fan base have heard of, right, this guy is going to follow the man who brought you so much success. And yet he stuck his oar in, I'm going to stick my oar in. And this is awful because it's that thing that all of us football fans, when we hear people talk about our club who have literally no real knowledge, they've cursorily read a headline or two and then they suddenly make, like, definitive statements. I'm going to try and defend Nancy a little bit. So I know very little about Celtic, although Dundee United versus Celtic at Canada base was one of the first ever games of football I went to because we used to go up to Scotland every year but watch the highlights, right? Is it Kenny, the center forward, right? They should be 2, 3, nil up if that goal goes in and we're talking about these such fine margins, right? This conversation isn't happening because they won at Dundee United and of course everything wouldn't be fine. But I do have a degree of sympathy for him. I thought he interviewed quite well afterwards. What else can he say? He's asked those questions. He isn't going to come out and say, yeah, actually we were really rubbish. I probably should go. And the very final question of about a nine minute interview. So have you got. I'm paraphrasing, but have you got renewed Resolve or do you think it's probably time to walk away and he's like. And Nancy like visibly bristles at it and he comes back and rightly so. Like what a silly question. No, I've been here two weeks and that's I think where the players are moving in my direction. So he hasn't had a pre season. Like he's come in. He's playing a new system. As I say. I know not much about Celtic Chris Sutton and everyone seems to be saying the recruitment is really bad. They haven't got center forwards. I mean it doesn't help Nancy stylist to play like one centre half. Isn't it with. With kind of two wing backs. It's almost Amorin like he's a free at the back man. It just feels. I know Celtic is a massive club and I understand the strength of feeling but like it was their 15th loss of the year of the calendar year and I think they lost four in 2024. So it does. There's a lot of things that suggest it isn't just this one man which you have said. The fact he couldn't tell the difference between Twitter and WhatsApp in terms of changing his profile picture is a little bit worried. But that aside.

Max (16:43)

Stuart Holden, the. The US international who played for Bolton for a while and is now back in the States, I genuinely feel for him. A lot of factors at play, a really tough schedule of games. He's proven himself as an excellent coach in mls, great at developing players. But the European pressures at a club like Celtic demand winning from the off. I hope he gets more time to get his fingerprints on the team, but unfortunately I don't think he will. He's been too naive in how quickly he thought he could implement his style of play and get wins for which he might pay the price. And I suppose that's the point, Jim, isn't it? He has gone in and said, you know, Martin o' Neil plays a certain way and I think we can play this way. And yes. And in those three fixtures it's sort of mad.

Sam (17:20)

Well, that's it.

Jim Burke (17:21)

And. And to be fair, Barry mentioned the grenade that he actually lodged two grenades. Barry. Because he also said that n. No, hadn't even asked him really about the players. There was a week and a 15 minute handover chat where it was just a. Probably a where's the parking spot, blah blah blah, anywhere nice to eat in Glasgow, that kind of thing. And he didn't ask him about the players. So Martin's got previous convictions for mischievousness. And I think there's a bit of. I think he maybe saw to himself. I could be back in time for the Rangers game in January if I play my Cavs, right? Yeah.

Max (17:58)

All right, then, Jim. Well, I wish you the best. I don't know if you want to. It's nice for you to come on. It's nice to talk to you, but obviously, if it starts going well, we probably won't.

Jim Burke (18:06)

No, absolutely. And I don't want to go on here for years, in fact.

Max (18:12)

Well, until Scotland beat Brazil, of course. Yeah, exactly. Or lose to Haiti. It's one of the two, isn't it? Cheers, pal.

Jim Burke (18:21)

All right, cheers now. Bye bye.

Max (18:23)

Jim Burke there. Bastard Jim from the RGC Celtic podcast. And that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll do the Carabao cup quarterfinals.

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Max (20:26)

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So the Carabao cup semi final draw. Newcastle Man City Arsenal Palace v Chelsea. Who's going to win the Carabao Cup? Jordan?

Jordan (20:35)

Oh. Who's gonna win the Carabao Cup? I don't know. I think you've got some really strong, strong teams left in there. I could put an argument forward for everybody. Obviously Arsenal palace do have to play, so they've got the most amount of games left to play. I think City look really good. I think City are kind of getting to the groove. I think City ring which is concerning for my team and everybody else. If we start with the City win last night, what's really scary about the City win is that they're now winning quite a few games in second gear. They seem to be just not expeding too much energy in getting wins in the League and in, in the League cup last night. Over the line. Beautiful goal from, from. From Shirky and I think they'd have to be the favorites. I do, I think Arsenal are wobbling that, that, that's, that's for sure. Crystal Palace, I think, you know, it's a long shot. Chelsea, who've got potentially Arsenal palace in the next round. I don't know if they could rule them out. They seem to have a really good cup record over the last few years. But I, I think City are the, are the other team that I'd put the smart money on at the moment.

Max (21:42)

Yeah. I mean that Turkey goal, Sam, and he is one of, currently right now one of the most exciting players to watch based on, you know, that Rabona that I criticized in this finish. But God, he strikes that. It's like it's sped up, isn't it?

Sam (21:56)

Yeah. I mean it was beautiful. The little touch, it was such a subtle. The movement to shift it from left to right and then the time. I mean if we did one of those graphics where the time between like ball leaving foot and hitting the net and it does take a little nick off the defender's head, but it's only about a yard away from the line there. It's such a pure strike. Didn't please Pep though. Did you see Pep afterwards said, oh yeah. Close to the 18 box of the opponent. He is an exceptional player. It was a fantastic goal. So it's not necessary to be A journalist or a manager to realize he's a fantastic player. Now I love the fact that he is chucked journalists in with managers as if we are somehow great judges of footballers ahead of the general public. But then his last line was after that he didn't play very well. So it's not enough just score that absolute belter. He's called him out in public. But yeah, man, City look really good and he is a lovely little footballer. And to watch it really was a super strike.

Max (22:47)

And also that touch as he touched it. Mikhail Damsgaard just came in shot and went out of shot didn't. He just ran. Whee. There he gone. He's still, he's still running. I mean anything else from this than the City win? Take your eye, Baz. I mean James Trafford had another, had another game which was nice for him.

Barry Glendenning (23:04)

Yeah. I mean you give a passing mention to a Brentford player there. They, they also participated in this game. And Keith Andrews is getting a bit of shade for leaving Jordan Henderson an eager Seago at home. They weren't even on the bench. I don't think they were injured. And Brentford have wolves on Saturday, I think, or Sunday. And they're actually staying up in Manchester. They were due to train at Manchester City's ground training ground this morning. So people are saying, you know, this is a competition. Brentford should be trying to win. So why are you leaving out your star striker and one of your most influential senior players? But I, I, you know, we always hear this during cup games, at League cup games, FA cup games, other squad members deserve to get a run out. You mentioned James Trafford there. He played, he kept a clean sheet. He made a few saves. I thought Valdemarson in, in goal for Brentford as well instead of queaving Kelleher. He played okay. He did. He was all right. Can't say I'd ever heard of him before. Yeah, I don't, don't really have anything much else to add. Trafford played. He didn't concede. So, you know.

Max (24:21)

Yeah, yes, Sam, I know you've talked about James Trafford before.

Sam (24:25)

No, I'm not, I'm not going to go on. James Trafford. Brentford had history. I remember being on this show this time last year and they just played up at Newcastle in the cup quarterfinal and we were very surprised that they'd left Buemo and I think it was Norga that they basically left two of their most exciting and, and best attacking players out at that point. So they obviously don't prioritize this competition. I mean, is it worth talking about the potential red card. Keith Andrews was certain that Kushanov should have been sent off. It was that tackle on Charda. He's outside the box. He. He is going through. It is a clear goal scoring opportunity, I think.

Max (24:57)

Yeah.

Barry Glendenning (24:57)

Agree.

Sam (24:57)

Brentford are staying up and they're training at City training ground today. So him and Guardiola was asked about it afterwards and they're going to have coffee and discuss it. Guardiola and Andrews. But I think it's a. A very legitimate shout and had Var being in place. I'm not sure Kushanov stays on the pitch and that. That could have changed it.

Barry Glendenning (25:15)

Oh yeah.

Max (25:15)

Let's go to the game at St James park then. Newcastle beat for him 2. One nice moment for Lewis. Miley Sam there in the last minute. He's. It looks like he's grown a foot in the last year in my mind. He's tiny but he's enormous. He's just been solidly on the weights for a year.

Sam (25:31)

They talked about in the last 18 months how the sort of boys become a man. And he. He is still 19. He was 17 when he first played. I stood next to him in a lift at the European games earlier in the season. And while he is a big tall man, he still looks very much like a child. But yet he has become. Newcastle needed a local hero right after Sunday. They had a local hero at the start. There's been a bit of controversy about the song we come out to Local Hero and the players had decided apparently that they knew better than the fans and they wanted it a little bit earlier in the playlist. They wanted something that would get them up for the game at St. James part. So we haven't been coming out to local hero yet. It didn't land that well. The fans weren't. I mean all these fan consultations that you seem to have that are just meaningless.

Max (26:12)

No.

Sam (26:13)

No one asked Newcastle fans about that. But that was back. So there was local hero in its rightful place at the start. A local hero at the end. He has become. He's ahead of Joe Linton. He's in Newcastle's best midfield free now. He's played 65 odd games at 19. There was a point he made his 50th appearance for Newcastle earlier in the season and he had to turn his. It was on his Twitter and he turned the comments off because he'd been getting so much social media abuse and we know what social media is like. But he is becoming ahead of Joe Linton. It's this Newcastle trying to develop someone who is a little bit better on the ball isn't just a fighter in midfield. He's got that little bit of quality and he looks like he believes he should be there. Which I think was the difference. Previously he's been someone who sort of gets the ball and then immediately just gives it to Sandro Tonali or Bruno Guimaraes because he's almost deferring to them. Whereas now he has that little bit more confidence. He plays with his chest up. He scored a couple of goals scored with his head away at Leverkinsen last week. Did so again. This time he played it right back as well. And how said afterwards that basically he gave him a load of information on the morning of the game. That's how often Newcastle are playing. So he's clearly an intelligent footballer and at the moment he is in a better stage in his career than Elliot Anderson. Was a similar age. Like he's getting game time. How has played him like eased him in pretty well and is now probably in Newcastle's first choice 11 which I think is kudos for him and it's lovely obviously. And he's got a younger brother too. There was an older brother who played a little bit in the 21s. He's now at Hartlepool and there's a younger brother. So presumably the younger brother is going to be even better.

Max (27:50)

Wow. The next Longstaffs. Jordan.

Jordan (27:53)

Just a quick point on both the managers. Max. I think I've heard in recent months talk from the Newcastle fan base about Eddie Howe having potentially, you know reached his peak and maybe the cup win. Yes. Last season was. Was as good as it was going to get and they're not overly happy with his performance this season. I. I don't agree. I think there's more to come from Eddie Howe. I wouldn't be stunned if they did win this cup again this season. But I think that kind of is interesting. An interesting contrast to Marco Silva who it looks to me is a manager that maybe has peaked with Fulham. I. I don't know where Fulham can go from their ceiling seems to be a European sport of which even that they. They're struggling to try and get into. Not.

Max (28:34)

Did you say peak? Do you say peak in terms of this is the best that he can do or the best that he can do at Fulham and he could do better somewhere else because. Because he's often been in that he's sort of the last person in the conversation for Tottenham for example. He's like. And also Marco Silva might get it but he doesn't yeah.

Jordan (28:51)

No I. I think what I mean I think is he's peaked with what he can do with Fulham. But I also don't know Fulham and I say this knowing that Crystal Pa won a trophy last year but I don't know if. If even Fulham. There's a higher ceiling for Fulham to be. Do you know what I mean? If they're not in the league cup they're not going to finish above seventh or eighth. I don't know a how much further they can go. But yeah, I don't also know how much further he can go with them. I just thought that was a nice contrast with a manager that I think actually could still do some more with their club. I. E. Eddie how.

Barry Glendenning (29:22)

Eddie how definitely seems to get more of a pass than other managers whose teams are struggling. I think. Now I do appreciate Sam mentioned that Lewis Miley had to play it right back last night. At the moment Newcastle have Lewis Hall. Dan Byrne, Kieran Trippier, Tino Livermento went off last night with what looked like it could be a bad knee injury. Emil Crafts, Sven Botman all out injured. So that's a lot of defenders. They played Chelsea at home I think on at the weekend. So I guess it's going to be Lewis hall. And Will Alex Murphy, the Irish kid he came on last night. He'll probably have to play at left back. Will he? So they're really down to the absolute bare bones in terms of defense. I mean did Eddie Howe gets any grief or much if any grief after the debacle on Sunday? Sam, I know you wrote about the game and you weren't impressed with what you saw as a Newcastle fan.

Sam (30:27)

It's such a difficult one. Eddie Howe. I've said it before like brilliant manager. Done amazing things in Newcastle. The. The worry is. And the concern is I'll answer your question directly. Yes. Yes he did. Because. And I know you talked about the game. I didn't listen. Because funnily enough I have disengaged from that game completely. I wrote my report while standing in a police cordon afterwards and that is it. I don't need. I didn't need anyone to tell me how rubbish Newcastle United were that day. I saw it for my eyes. For myself. I think he. Did you see everything wrong? Say again?

Max (31:05)

Did you see the goal?

Sam (31:07)

I saw the goal. I saw the goal. It was the best header I've seen Nick Walter Marder come up with in his time at Newcastle. I also. I parked in Sunderland City centre. So once I'd found a reasonable police officer to allow me out of the queue for the Metro which I was stood in for an hour and a half. I had to walk through Sunderland city centre listening to pubs full of Sunderland fans singing Nick Voltimar he's one of our own. That was. That was tough. The thing Sunday. Eddie Howe got everything wrong and right here. So here's the thing, right. This is Newcastle United fans do not think we. There's no divine right to be in the top five to be a top club. But we're getting told by the CEO that Newcastle were aiming to be a number one club in the world. Right? Never going to happen. Unrealistic. But that is what the club are openly saying. The ambition. So when you're measuring where Newcastle United are and what the team is doing you have to go well that's what the club's trying to do. Is it anywhere near getting them? And when you're going away like the away record is. Is horrendous. And when you're going away in the biggest game of the year and it is the biggest game of the year and I don't think the players appreciate that. And not even trying to score a goal for an hour or so. Anthony Elanga who is up there if not the worst pound for pound sign in Newcastle palace is a strange signing. Hadn't started a game for a while and suddenly starts that game in the 94th minute. There was that fracar where everyone got booked and Sunderland did really well. They got Newcastle to do exactly what they wanted to do. And everyone in the away and is going oh finally you actually showed some fight. You guys have realized in a derby game and in that away end. Two and a half thousand in the away and you take out the corporates. I don't know 7, 800 tickets right. What you've actually got. And this is not ranking fans in terms of importance or anything like that saying people are better fans. But what you've got in that away end are the people who have followed Newcastle United and around the country. Like you need a lot of points to get that ticket. And there was a lot of. We're a bit fed up with this from Eddie Howe. And if you just start to lose that group. Forget about social media. If you lose the most loyal fan base then you start to be in a bit of trouble. And he hasn't. And it was an emotive reaction. But I still think there's a lot of people that shut down legitimate questions about Newcastle's evolution from a side who are brilliant in one off Games who are brilliant at playing on the break and beating the big teams. I'd almost expect us to beat Chelsea. The thing about Sunday was it was so predictable. Newcastle fans knew we were going to get that performance. Chelsea at home. Big game. Team coming at us. Injury crisis. Perfect. We'll probably win that game. I think Lewis hall will be back. I think they were just protecting him last night. But what I've given is a very long answer to what is quite a complex question. But I agree with Barry. He does get a bit of a free pass. A Premier League manager should always be under pressure and in my day job if I'd have turned up for something with basically the firm's most important client and performed that poorly I would be under serious pressure after last Sunday. So it's a tricky one. I don't think he is under any pressure. The club is too Eddie Howe centric actually it's set up around him. He has a lot of power at Newcastle United Football Club and I'm not saying they should get rid of him either but how much credit how long do you give someone this whole oh he's got enough credit to be given till the end of the season. Should that be a thing in football elite sport. I don't know. And that doesn't just apply to how it yeah applies across the board.

Jordan (34:41)

Can I take back my answer Max.

Barry Glendenning (34:43)

Then I'll take that back.

Max (34:48)

I was going to say the for the tape Sam's day job. He's a hitman as well so it's important that you know he does exactly as instructed by his bosses Chelsea who Newcastle play at the weekend they won 31 at Cardiff game played on Tuesday night and actually quite quite an interesting game. I thought Barry and and Sunny and George on Tuesday said Cardiff would give a good account of themselves and they did.

Barry Glendenning (35:11)

Yeah they were no doubt spurred on by a full house in the Cardiff City Stadium. I thought they played with they weren't didn't seem to be in any way overawed by the arrival of Chelsea. They played with ambition, confidence ping the ball around nicely and ultimately they lost because their players aren't as good as Chelsea's players. Chelsea are a much better team but they certainly didn't disgrace themselves Went behind to a soft goal Dylan Lawler the the Cardiff center back gave it away very cheaply and buena not a Chelsea just swarmed forward and Buena notice fed the ball to Garnacho scored then Cardiff equalize Brilliant David Turnbull header from a parrying. How do we say this G cross and Then yeah, Chelsea sort of ran away with it at the end. Garnacho and Pedro got, got two more bush. I thought Cardiff were decent and you know, they obviously have bigger fish to fry trying to get out big League 1, but they were all right. I mean Chelsea had made a lot of changes. Well, couldn't have made more. They, they had 11 changes from their last game and the game sort of swung in their favor when they bought Xiao, Pedro and Garnacho on us at halftime.

Max (36:44)

Jordan, what do you make of the, the Maresca situation after what he said?

Jordan (36:48)

I think he's a frustrated manager. I think he's a manager that wants to win the Premier League and I think he's realizing that he's at a club with an ownership model and I'm not saying anything that's not been said before here that seemingly that isn't their number one priority. And I think he's a manager that, that wants more. I think he may potentially be making those comments because in the January window coming up, he wants to try and get in. He's bid for some money to kind of get some players in that could make him, that could get them back in the title shake up. But I think he's a very frustrated manager that wants to do more, but is seeing that actually he's in a, he's at a club that, that he's going to find it very difficult to achieve his personal ambitions with the in line with the ambitions of the club. And I just think he's realized that now and he's just like, you know what? Sod it. I'm gonna put out these convoluted comments, but I think, I think we know what he's saying. He's saying, I'm not happy, I'm not happy with what I got here. I want more, I need more. And if I can't get more, I think he's prepared to swing and, and be taken out.

Max (37:51)

God, I mean they spent quite a lot. I know they spent on young players, but you know when you've had a billion spent and you say I want more. So at some point it feels greedy, doesn't it? But we'll see what happens. But yeah, that's the only kickoff on Saturday we'll do the rest of the Premier League preview in Part three.

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Max (39:43)

Welcome to Part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Spurs Liverpool feels big Sam, doesn't it? Sort of. There is a sword of Damocles crisis Klaxon hanging over this one for one of those managers and I think that manager is probably Thomas Frank.

Sam (40:00)

Yeah, that. I mean I can't think quickly enough on my feet to continue the metaphor and say how close to the Thomas Frank's neck that sword is hanging. I mean I am a hitman after all. I should be. I mean the sword of Damocles is one of my most used tools. Spurs fans don't like him. He's not picking up results. He's in that Nuno zone already. He's been in that Nuno zone for a while. Of supporters a little bit like a manager we were talking about at the top of the show. For whatever reason they have decided that he's not their man and it is worrying. I mean it's fun as an outsider to watch those kind of games. It should be a lot of fun. I don't think slots under real pressure at the moment. But yeah, Frank just. It needs. But that's the way football works, right? He'll probably get a result. Will it change the opinion? I'd have people sway back and forward, myself included. And we're very fickle Does a result change it? Probably not. I think spurs fans have already written him off from the ones I've spoken to. They just want him him to go which I think is sad because he seems like a nice man and he's obviously a good manager but it could be a wrong place, wrong time possible.

Max (41:08)

I mean that happens to Spurs a lot I guess Barry but, but I think all it means is if you're in that position you've just gotta do we, you know if the tide is swinging against you, you need a result like this against somebody good. And Liverpool are sort of back on form a bit, aren't they?

Barry Glendenning (41:23)

I hate previewing the weekend games because you invariably end up looking like a chump and you would imagine Liverpool should win this fairly comfortably but there's every chance they won't. And if spurs do win it then obviously that will buy Frank time.

Jordan (41:42)

I, I think the spurs need this win more than Liverpool. I know they're probably had a poor season but yeah, I think the spurs fans that I know also they're generally not having Frank and I think Frank needs a big win. As Sam said. I think for Liverpool with Mo Salah having left now afcon the attention now is going to be solely on slot because now okay now you've got that so called big problem out the way. Let's see what team you play. Let's see if actually Salah was the problem. I think the scrutiny on, on slot now I think will be a lot, a lot more so I, I, I'm interested to see what happens in this game for, for both of those particular narratives Slot and whether he can you know get a get 11 together that's, that looks coherent and, and, and strong. But also Thomas Frank if they lose at home to Liverpool albeit they're the champions, I think we could be in that territory of you know, two games to go. Save your job with Frank.

Max (42:36)

I really thought it was going to work when they, when they beat City, you know when 1, 2 nil at City early on I was like this is perfect. This is going to be so good and he's a great guy and everyone loves him. You never know. You never know. Jordan, how are you feeling about the top of the table man? City can go top with a win against West Ham. Before you go to Everton and the 8pm late kickoff.

Jordan (42:57)

I think it's fair to say Manchester City will be top by the time we play our game because I always respect West Ham. I can't see anything happening there. Yeah Arsenal, this is the title race it's never going to be easy. You gotta, you gotta expect bumps in the road. But you know, people had said we won the League six weeks ago. Now we're gonna, we're gonna bottle it. We just also got to ride this out. It's, it's not going to be an easy game against Everton although they do have, I think Dewsbury Halls are injured with a hamstring. He's been playing quite well quite recently and a couple of key players have gone to will definitely weaken Everton. It's a game I expect Arsenal to win because I think that they're, they, they need to kind of come through this Christmas program with some form and look if, if the, the narrative will be if City go back top. Oh, you know Arsenal can't do it. Arsenal just got to just focus on themselves and just got to stand firm and make sure that they focus on what winning their games because they're a very, very good team and I think this will be their season but it's going to be difficult. They got to, they got to ride it up.

Sam (43:52)

Sam Ilimanjayi is a massive miss for Everton. Like I, I find at the risk of the wrath of Everton fans, they're a strange team. They're a very Moisian team. Big, big center offs. Let's try and find some center off to fill in at fullback half the time as well. And it's old school 442. Give the ball to your two creative players and see what they can do. And one of those, one half of that creativity isn't there. And if Dewsbury Hall's been brilliant for them by the way but yeah, followed in die for a while and he is just fun to watch and missing him, missing Idris Sagana Gay and missing a center forward. It's not that they've got a center forward away, it's just they haven't got one of any kind of note. So you, you've got a back Arsenal to go. This is, this is. It's all cliches, isn't it? But like if you don't. If you can't go and win this game when you're under pressure with, with all your attacking options and all that strength then you probably aren't going to end up winning the title. But I think they will go there and, and win like quite comfortably. Maybe I'm scarred because I watched Newcastle beat Everton quite comfortably but either side of that they've had some really good results and. But I find them weird. I just, I don't think they're very good as a team. I think they've got some good players and they rely on individual brilliance, which is quite an old school, almost a basketball methodology. So I think Arsenal have enough.

Max (45:08)

Yeah, I'm hoping one day they play Barry and Beto up front together in a classic Big man, big man. That's the dream. I mean, really, the perfect way for this season to finish is for Arsenal to come second and Aston Villa to pip them just for the amount of. Just for Jordan Jarrett. Bryan's mentions Villa play Manchester United. Barry, I'm. I'm loathe to ask you a question previewing a game, given your stance on it, but if you could cast your eye over Villa. Manchester United, how do you see it?

Barry Glendenning (45:36)

Well, since Monday, Manchester United are now being hailed as the reincarnation of Brazil 1970 because they scraped a draw against Bournemouth at home out of foreign Bournemouth. So I can't see anything other than a United victory. I just. Of course, look, Villa are on this incredible winning streak. At some point it will end. Will it end against Manchester United at Philip Hark on Sunday? Possibly. But I. I think this would be a Villa win.

Max (46:11)

Do you fear Villa, Jordan?

Jordan (46:13)

I've kind of got to say no. No, haven't I? For the narrative.

Max (46:17)

You can be what we try and be honest on this podcast I'm really searching for.

Jordan (46:22)

I fear Unai Emery. That. That's. That's who I feel. I. I think he's the reason, the sole reason, in my opinion. They've got any chance of going deep in this title race. Morgan Rogers is on fire right about now, but I fear they will peter out just because of resources. So I don't fear them as genuine title contenders. No. But I think, as Barry said, they're on his great run. I think they'll beat Manchester United and insert themselves over the Christmas program as a threat. But no, I think ultimately it will come down to Manchester City and Arsenal.

Barry Glendenning (46:53)

Was it just me or did anyone else have the urge to say the funk soul brother when Jordan said right about now there, I really had to struggle to stop.

Max (47:07)

Why?

Jordan (47:07)

Why?

Max (47:07)

You should let her out, Mary. It's Christmas. People would have really enjoyed it. Any other games excite anybody looking at them? What else have we got? Bournemouth, Burnley, Leeds, Palace, Wolves, Brentford, Brighton, Sunderland.

Barry Glendenning (47:21)

Yes, I'm going to call Wolves winning their first game of the season this weekend.

Max (47:26)

Do you think so?

Barry Glendenning (47:27)

I think they're going to beat Brentford at Molineux on Saturday at 3 o' clock and Molyneux will be. It'll be a Happy Christmas for everyone at Molineux. Well, a less miserable Christmas.

Jordan (47:38)

Yeah.

Barry Glendenning (47:39)

For the good people at Molineux. So I'm calling a Wolves win.

Max (47:44)

Yeah. So.

Barry Glendenning (47:46)

And there's a very, very good chance I look like a chomp on Monday.

Sam (47:50)

Doesn't like preview, but, but loves calling Wolves. I want to ask Barry about Sunderland and this is not with an agenda, but I'm just interested to know because they're the team that are going to miss the most players for afcon. I think there's six players going off like, and I'm not fae enough with Sunderland to know, like, how many of them are regular starters and things like that. Like, is this quite a big test?

Barry Glendenning (48:13)

Most of them are. Noah Siddiqui has been absolutely outstanding playing the centre midfield alongside Granit Xhaka. He tends to get overlooked a bit because Granit Jack is Granit Jack, obviously, but Siddiqui is like a little, just, just a pocket dynamo. Limitless amounts of energy. His absence and to be clear, I have no objection to any of these Sunderland players going to represent their countries. There's a very sneery attitude towards AFCON in the UK among quite a few Premier League fans. I, I, they all go with my blessing. I wish them all the very best of luck and I hope they all come back hail and hearty and, and fit. So Siddiqui leaves, gives Dan Neal an opportunity to come in. Dan Neil was instrumental in getting Sunderland promoted last season. He's one of several players who were instrumental in getting them up. They haven't really got a look in this season because of all the new players they brought in. So one presumes he'll get a chance to, to show what he can do in the Premier League and I think that's great. Luka 9 is another one. I think he's still serving that silly ban he got for getting a red card when he was Sunderland were losing a match, 3 nil. But he will come in at some point and show what he can do in the Premier League. And Sunderland already have enough points that even if they don't pick up a single one during afcon, they'll still probably be okay. But I'm looking forward to seeing how they get on with these championship players getting a chance to step up. I think Brighton away on Saturday could be maybe an after the Lord Mayor show performance and if that, if they do get beaten, that's fine. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

Max (50:08)

Before we go to any other business, we should send thoughts to the friends and family of Ethan McLeod, 21 year old Macclesfield forward who died following a car accident. He was traveling home from a National League north match on Tuesday night. He joined Macclesfield this summer after coming through the Wolves academy. He'd already made an impression of the club, was described as an incredibly talented young player with an infectious personality and yeah, incredibly sad. And that news broke yesterday. I was on the radio and somebody texted in to say, look, they, you know, they were at that game, had seen him warming up for that game and just incredibly sad. Elsewhere, PSG beat Fluminese in the Intercontinental cup on penalties. Is this a game that completely passed you by, Barry?

Barry Glendenning (50:50)

Yes.

Max (50:51)

Yes. Is it?

Barry Glendenning (50:53)

Did it pass? First I heard of it is when you mentioned it just now.

Max (50:57)

Anyone else? Anyone else?

Jordan (51:01)

Last night I heard about it, but before last night. Yeah, I didn't know it was a game that was.

Max (51:04)

No, that's okay. You got there. It's. It's a FIFA competition, so it's sort of. It's interesting how long this will carry on. I think still regarded highly in South America. I was checking Tim Vickery about it the other day. So Fluminese were in that final, but it feels like that may have run its course. I think it was in the Middle east somewhere. But now the club World cup is there. Hard to see how this carries on as well. The Guardians top 100 footballers is out. Outrageous. Pacho is only at 48 or something despite getting in FIFA's Men's World 11. I mean, I don't know about you, Barry, I can't remember. I did submit my 40 but I can't remember who I voted for, but hopefully they, they make the top 40.

Barry Glendenning (51:46)

Do you want my top 10?

Max (51:47)

Yeah, yeah, go on.

Barry Glendenning (51:49)

So my. I. My top 10 from one down or should I go from 10 up? I'll just go one down. I'd. Vatino.

Jordan (51:57)

I know.

Max (51:58)

Go 10 like Bruno Brooke. No, you spoiled it now. But yeah, go from 10 like Bruno Brooks.

Barry Glendenning (52:03)

It's not live, Max, we can.

Max (52:06)

Oh, no, I don't like. No, no, no. I don't believe we should. But anyway, carry on.

Barry Glendenning (52:11)

Okay, number one, Vitina. Number two, Holland. Three, Amal. Four, Kane. Five, Carrots Kilia. Six, Moyes Caicedo. Seven, Usman at Dembele. Eight, Juan. Nine, Nuno Mendes. And ten, Cold Palmer.

Max (52:30)

Okay.

Barry Glendenning (52:30)

And forty. My number forty was Lionel Messi because I thought I can't leave him out so I, I put him in a 40.

Max (52:38)

Do you want my. Do you want my 10 at 10? Virgil van Dijk at 9? Fabian Ruiz at 8, Mo Salah at 7, Joao Neves at 6, Erling Harland at 5, Harry Kane at 4, Rafinha at 3, Lamar Lamina Mall at 2, Vitinia at 1, Ousmane Dembele. Are any of those outrageous? I sort of, you know, reading them, going with, have I made any big errors there?

Barry Glendenning (52:59)

Well, it's your opinion, so, yes, but.

Max (53:02)

You know, it's your opinion when, you know, you've had. You're on your fifth email and you're four days late and you're even later than Romario. That's what I was told. Even Romario's got his in, so get yours in. So the FIFA Men's World 11 came out, which was Donnaruma, Hakimi, Pacho, Van Dyke, Mendez, Palmer, Bellingham, Vitinia, Pedri, Yamal and Dembele. So, you know, there we are, if you like those kind of things. On the subject of half and half scarves, producer Joel says, you know, there's been a groundswell of interest not appreciated in their lifetime. Like Van Gogh off, he says. He said he might organize a flash mob giveaway in King's Cross. Dan, is there a link to buy one of the scarves? Thanks. Merry Christmas, Michael. Just listening back to the pod. Sunderland's derby joy, December 15, while discussing the West Ham half and half bad Barry mentioned there were quite a few football weekly ones left in the Guardian towers. My questions are, can I have one? How much they cost, where can I find one? I've looked on the Guardian shop, I can't find any. Surely they weren't that popular. You've run out. Thank you to Max, Barry, all the guests, of course, everyone working behind the scenes for all the pods this year year. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas. Best wishes for the new year, Kevin. A donation of what amount to Barry's Marathon Journey is needed to receive one of the 50000 football weekly scarves. I mean, you were in the office, Barry, you have seen the boxes of scarves that are there.

Barry Glendenning (54:20)

Yes, I think 50, 000 is probably a bit of an exaggeration, but there's. Yeah, a couple of hundred, I'd say, quite a few boxes of them. I have no idea how to. If they can be bought, where they can be bought. And I certainly can't be arsed stuffing them in envelopes myself, even if I do get trousers of cash. I mean, I have one of my best mates sells merch outside gigs for a living and I reckon even he'd struggle to offload these he could sell. Sell sand. Sand to Mohammed bin Salman, I'd say.

Max (55:05)

I'll finish with this from Andreas. Dear Football Weekly, I'm excited to report the Max and Barry star in a piece of speculative fiction published by Issues in Science and Technology, a publication of the prestigious National Academy of sciences in Washington, D.C. bonham certain is a Christmas tale set in a not too distant future when an American tech bro acquires a lower division football club and decides to dispense with human a human manager handing over the reins of the team to AI. Without giving too many spoilers, I will share that Max and Barry dub what ensues as robotic Hausery and listeners will be reassured to learn that even years from now, Barry is still giving Max a hard time for liking Coldplay. I'm a long time devoted listener of the pod. I was so excited to pay tribute to Football Weekly in this story, which is especially fitting in this series that explores the impact of technology on society. Given the one live show I've been able to attend was in the Museum of Science in London. Happy Christmas to all. I'd appreciate you sharing the story with your listeners. If you deem it appropriate. Andreas has written it. I'll read you the website, which is quite long. Here we go. Nothing like reading out a full website, is there? Issues.org future tense fiction/fiction. Bonham Sirtarman Martinez/forward slash. No one will be able to access that. No one on your jog is typing that down on your phone on your smartphone as you're running. Anyway, go and find it. And thank you so much for putting us in fiction. We appreciate it. And that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jordan. Cheers, mate. Thanks, Sam.

Sam (56:40)

You're welcome. Thank you.

Max (56:42)

Thank you, Barry.

Barry Glendenning (56:43)

Thanks, Max.

Max (56:44)

Football Weekly is produced by Silence. Great. Our executive producer producer is Phil Maynard.

Unidentified Advertiser (57:01)

This is the Guardian.