A (2:57)

Yeah, I think he did. I think it's a far better result for Chelsea in crisis of, of a sort than it is for Man City. You've now dropped four points in the last two games. And I thought it was interesting that in his postmatch interview on Match of the Day at least Pep took serious exception to the accusation. Yeah, that there had been a shift of momentum in the second half of the game because he hadn't noticed one. But I think everyone else did and I, I think the person who asked him the question, I didn't get who it was, was bang on. But Pep, Pep wasn't having that at all. Was at his most condescending in answering the question. But I, I think Callum McFarlane and Chelsea did a number on them. They rolled their luck a bit. Manchester City probably should have put the game beyond them before they had the chance to grab that late, late equalizer. But the little switches McFarlane made at halftime certainly changed the momentum of the game. And I think Chelsea probably deserved a draw in the end in a kind of reverse.

B (4:11)

So, so good of Pep. The fact that he completely denied that it changed means that it definitely did change. Seb, that was, that's, that's what I inferred from that post match interview.

C (4:20)

Yes. I think that Manchester City, they never want to be in a position where they're sitting really deep defending a lead. Even when they played Arsenal earlier this season, they defended pretty deep for much of the game. But for some reason in the last few minutes they pushed up the pitch and tried to almost look after the ball and take, take that, that threat away. And that's what caught them out in the end for that equalizer. And we've spoken this season, you know, my belief that Man City would pip Arsenal to the title was this freedom of attack and having an excellent goalkeeper in Haaland up front. Now the attack was free, but it felt on this occasion, I think, because of the injuries, that he didn't put a natural winger on the pitch. Obviously Savinha wasn't available. Bob's not not available. Docu was on the bench, but it did make me think he wanted to control the game in the central area and look after it and keep the ball away from Chelsea. But the one thing about Chelsea is it doesn't matter really how well or badly they're playing. They do have good players and they will have moments in every game. And when they're playing in big games, their young players get really up for the match. And it felt as long as they kept it within one because they were on the back foot a bit in the first half, they were going to have their moment in the game. And it's. It's funny even that by the end of the match, the fact that we're talking about McFarlane being in a position where he did do a number on Pep, really, because he changed his system in the second half and he swapped players around. He, he, he took off players when he needed to. He recognized the game state. It was, it was masterful. But the one point, because I won't go into all the details of the game because that will take away any point. Maybe Nick has to come, but I, or maybe I shouldn't feel that way, but I feel that it's interesting that McFarlane, he has a past at Manchester City and it fills every team, whatever team I seem to be covering, they have a tentacle in Manchester City at some point. It's like they are the foundation for all the coaching in English football at the moment. Even when I did Card, if it was the case with them and Chelsea have it running through their veins and just their players and coaching staff. And I wonder when, when Pep does walk away from this, if that's probably the thing that he takes the greatest pride from, because that imprint on the English football system will be something. And especially when he takes the England job after the World Cup.

B (6:36)

I mean, it didn't sound. It, it didn't sound like it yesterday. It's the only thing I would say. And look for four McFarland Nick, which is now, he may go on to be the most successful manager of all time. We may never hear of him again. But like it was that it was a really lovely moment at the end where like Rhys James is pushing him forward and saying, look, this is on you. Well done, you. And it. And it must have been such an art, just human, odd, human experience. I know he's coached matches before, but it must have been a really odd day for him.

D (7:02)

Yeah, you've. You've gone from. I don't want to say nobody, but relative Unknown to to hero in the space of a week, you know, in all the headlines and as Seb has said, they, they, they totally deserved it. I thought his introduction of Liam Delap in the second half made a big difference. Dilapid his bustling thing, but with a bit more composure, could have scored. Nearly got on the end of a move for the goal. I thought they were getting behind City very easily. Lots of very well executed two or three pass moves, largely foundering at the feet of Pedro Neto, it has to be said, who got in a lot of good areas and then kept even, making no decision or checking back on himself. But no, I think they played it very well. And look, I doubt we're gonna be hearing that much of him in terms of a frontline coaching position in the future. We've got Chelsea's extensive scouting mission for a new manager seemingly coming to an end, maybe even today with Liam Rosenhe. What a moment to have on. On your CV for as and when you may be looking for that senior position.

B (8:14)

You have the inside track on Liam Rossenior. Seb?

C (8:17)

Yeah, I think it's probably one of the best. I work with his dad, Leroy pretty much every week. And Leroy himself played, you know, in the top flight for West Ham and Fulham and a man who's managed himself in the past, so a great foundation for Liam as well. But I always got the sense with Liam, when he was coming through, he was good speaker, he's good analyst of the game. Players speak really highly of him. And it's been really interesting in the media this week that some of the, say, younger pundits who have had more of a connection, have probably met him, probably spoken with him, have given him really high praise and defended him. Whether we get into the position of, of management and managing Chelsea in particular, that's something else. And that will be discussed over the whole way. But I felt from. I wanted to talk about the idea of. Because when you sit. When I sit next to Leroy every week, his pride in how well his son is doing in terms of the progression and, and reaching a point that he couldn't reach in his coaching career. But seeing your son do it in many ways is better because you can sit back, you can. You don't have to live that pressure per se. You live a different type of pressure. And if Liam, if it goes through and he becomes Chelsea manager, it will feel like such a huge moment. And we ask, we always ask in this country for British managers to do, to get opportunities, but when they get them, we say Are they ready for them? You just have to let things pass and then you can talk about it afterwards and we'll see how it goes. Because Potter worked his way to that situation and it didn't quite work out for him. And that may happen for Liam in the end, but the foundation is there and we will see. It feels like he is the right manager for that group in a weird way. Looking at McFarlane yesterday, see how he was with Rhys James, how Rhys James was, was with him. They are young players and maybe we're thinking about it differently that maybe young players nowadays quite like a young manager around them. Maybe they feel more connected. Maybe they don't need that older manager to tell them you got your boots on the wrong way. Who knows? But if it works for Chelsea, then we can say that's a masterstroke, can't we? And one thing to add, I might be going against the tide here, but under good authority. Leroy's told me that it's Rosenia and I may be the only person in.

B (10:24)

The media he might know.

C (10:26)

He might know. And he said, like most people do, they say, well, people just said Rossenia and you know, I can't go around correcting everybody, so I'll just go around with it. But because he's told me it personally, I have no excuse now, don't I?

B (10:39)

Okay, fine. I look forward to my two sons attaining a level of podcasting that I never could in the same way and just sitting back and just enjoying it vicariously. Nick, you politely had your hand up.

D (10:50)

Yeah, no, I wish Liam was Anya very well in that job, I think, as we've seen before Haaland and then lately at Strasbourg, he is an excellent coach. He always comes across fantastically, by the way, and seems like a genuinely decent, proper football person. And I'm very pleased to see someone like that in charge of Chelsea, to be honest. But I think we do need to acknowledge the company man Strasberg thing, because it just doesn't. And this has nothing to do, by the way, whether Zenya personally at all. This is the situation he has ended up in. It doesn't sit well. He's done a very good job at Strasbourg, backed very well by Bluco, obviously, who owned both them in Chelsea. I think they're seventh in Ligue 1 now. I think they were seventh in Ligue 1 last season, maybe out by a spot, but I think that's about right. And I just think treating a club like Strasbourg of that size as a cadbang for Chelsea players and then managing is as big and high profile a post as this. I mean, it's a long and separate discussion, but for me it's. It's not right at all.

A (11:58)

Yeah, Strasbourg fans are already mega pissed off with blueco's involvement in their club, even though Blue Club have invested a lot of money. But I wonder if the Chelsea hierarchy are getting the yes man or the company man they think they are, because I don't know Lemur Sr. But I know he's very thoughtful, articulate man with a lot of strident opinions, some of which he has aired in the Guardian from time to time. So if Todd Boley and chums think they're getting a company man who do their bidding, I'm not so sure that'll be the case. But we will find out.

B (12:38)

Yeah, he wrote an article about Trump, but didn't he? So it'd be interesting if he'd been, you know, there to win the club World cup and Donald had wandered up to, you know, take a medal alongside him. More on Trump, of course, later for City. Look, this is two points dropped again, so four points dropped in two games. Slipping a little bit away from Arsenal. It's still a lot of football to be played, but, you know, that is not ideal.

C (13:03)

And I, I don't think it's. I don't think we can say it's too early anymore. I think we've done that. We've, you know, we're halfway through the season now, so we're starting to look at patterns and take something from it. It's, of course, it's not done at all. Of course Manchester City can go on a run, as they often do, because I still feel they always threaten the goal all the time. And you get the sense maybe Arsenal might have a game where that doesn't happen for them and they drop points. City had only drawn against Arsenal before that draw with Sunderland. That was their only draw this season. So they used to being in a position where they, they beat teams, you know, most of the time, so they could get on it. And we look at the fixtures ahead and we've been doing this all the time. We, we try to think, oh, that's going to happen, that's going to happen. But we know we can't really do that. I mean, you think arse playing Liverpool this week, Arsenal could win 4 nil because Liverpool implode or Liverpool could nick it and win the game there very easily. They have good players, as Jamie Carragher said yesterday, you know, so it's going to be interesting. And the fact that Arsenal do have this. It's been a while relatively and compared to other clubs who spent a lot of money, that that tension will get across to the players at some point. So whether by the time they face them at the Etihad then that might change things. But, but I think the cons, the thing that has reared its head, which I will say is what I thought might be Arsenal's problem and it's probably every side's problem is injuries and, and fitness and we've talked about the club World Cup. There was a slight legginess about City yesterday. It wasn't a surprise that defenders went off injured because they're playing every week. I'm not saying that City have a small squad, but the number of injuries affecting teams is affecting all the games and it would be amazing if we could just click our fingers and say everybody had everybody fit for the entire season, what would the table look like? But obviously we can't do that.

D (14:56)

I was going to allude to exactly that kind of squad thing because I think this is the moment now over this sticky and intensive winter period where we are seeing the benefit of the depth and durability that Mikel Arteta has put together. I think at Bournemouth he, he brought on, off the top of my head, I think he brought on Saka Jesus Molino definitely. And, and I think TROSSARD4 incredible subs. EBE didn't even get a minute. He hasn't started since. Since the Wolves game a while ago isn't really in favor right now. Someone like Ifan Nwaneri, no one near it, nowhere near it. Whereas City, you know, for AFCON reasons, for the injury reasons you mentioned, only had Doku really to bring on the other day. And it wasn't a dissimilar case at Sunderland a few days previously either, either. And I just think it is this period now if Arsenal do come out of it, still six points clear or so after the Liverpool game, it would have completely borne out the squad that Arteta has put together and the impact that people thought that might have I think is proving quite key.

B (16:05)

Yeah, and Barry, Arsenal are, you know, they won at Bournemouth and Bournemouth were good in this game. This was not an easy game and Declan Rice had an absolutely brilliant, I mean just everywhere but like those two sort of Lampardian arriving late finishes. But his whole all round game was just brilliant.

A (16:22)

He scored the two goals, obviously they were both very well taken and just he just seemed to be five or six. Declan Rice's on the pitch, he was everywhere making important Interceptions, making important tackles, getting the ball forward, scoring the two goals of course. And he was imperious throughout this game as was. I thought Martin Odegaard looked very much back to his best as well. There are two young senior players, if you know what I mean and kept their heads and composure during what was a hard fought win for Arsenal. Bournemouth didn't make it easy for them at all. Even Gabrielle made that uncharacteristic error to give away the first goal. But they didn't panic and he popped up to score the equalizer to cancel out his mistake. And my only real concern for Arsenal at the start of the season I think was a potential lack of mental fortitude. And it was tested to an extent against Bournemouth and they passed with flying colors. I thought I'm not sure how much more is going to be tested but so far so good for them.

B (17:47)

Yeah, Madawayka was excellent as well. And another example of their, their debt.

A (17:51)

Talking about their depth even like they brought on as Nick said, Saka, Jesus and Trossard. Kai Havertz was given the day off because they're trying to manage his comeback from injury.

B (18:04)

Oh, that's nice. But he go to Blue Water. I wonder what he did. Yeah, Madawago had a really good game. You wonder if Man City delayed the Semenya deal just long enough that he would play this game against Arsenal. Fraser Forrester has signed a six month deal at Bournemouth. Doesn't feel like for like with Semeno but let's see what he can do. I guess out there like Bournemouth the interesting 711 without a win but in the last couple of the games they've looked better than that. And on Wednesday Dr. Tottenham arrive at.

C (18:32)

The vitality to fix all their problems, all their woes. I, I feel for Bournemouth because every time you see them they are in games against all the teams in the league. You think they drew with Chelsea. The Manchester United game which I covered was the game of the season and they have this ability to score goals against everybody and that's with a team that's lost so many key players. And what I like about them in certain games is that they Even yesterday they're 3:1 down in the game but they're still going for it, they're still pushing for it. It feels like a Premier League thing anyway to do to be like that, that sides don't just throw the towel in but they, they, they just need to turn that corner and get the wins on the board because they're picking up points. That's helping to stave off any idea that they're going to drop into the bottom three. And I don't believe that they would have that threat anyway. I just still think they're too, they're too good for that. But you want Iriola to get that win. Obviously if you're a Spurs supporter you don't, but you want them to get that win because it feels again to back up what they're doing in terms of trying to replace the players that have left and give new players a chance to show what they can do. And we saw that. I mean Croupy's been one of those clutch players this season for them scoring, he's going to by the end of the season when they do the Premier League season review, Premier League years, he's going to pop up two or three times in that for sure. I think, you know the Leeds game, Manchester United, obviously the goal in this game will probably still make the edit even though they lost the game. So we, we will see with Bournemouth and you know of all the, you know the, the Bees, the well run Bees in the Premier League, I think they're the one that this season probably people aren't. Haven't noticed that they've been on this long run but we still need to give them the credit the way they compete in against the best in the league.

B (20:18)

Yeah. And look, if you don't have a good season, we were saying this, you know about you know, it's not a bad season. Last year wasn't a bad season to be bad because of the bottom three were so bad. It felt the same. Although we said about West Ham and they can't afford to be bad because they are one of those three. AJ says what if Jacob Steinberg was too positive with respect to west ham after his seven minute soliloquy on the disaster there. Wolves first win of the in their 20th game. John brewing called this. We're on the radio with him. The if we can't win this derby. It's a really nice way of phrasing this. Both teams going well if we can't win this, we are totally screwed. And actually Barry, Wolves looked really, really good with the. It was only West Ham caveat of course.

A (20:59)

Yeah. And that is a big caveat. It was a really good weekend for Arsenal and it was a really, really good weekend for Wolves because they won. All the teams above them lost. I was thinking they couldn't, could they? And then I've now looked at how they it they could but they won't. I think they need Two points a game. The best part of two points a game, you know, certainly a point and a half a game from here on in. But they played well in this game. But the West Ham caviar can't be stressed enough. They can't play West Ham every week much as their fans. What requested that through the medium of song. And I don't think you can overstate how pathetic West Ham were in this game. I don't want to take away from Wolves because when I, the latest scorer, flashed up and I saw three nil was like, whoa, crikey. I did expect Wolves to beat them. I didn't expect them to be 3 nil up by half time, but. And you could. When Wolves went two nil up, you could see almost see the players visibly swell with confidence. Like, wow, this. We're two nil up in a game of football. This is incredible. Started pinging the ball around that. That kid Matthias Mane was superb. Ran the show for Wolves. But West Ham were pathetic. And it's not just that they're a bad football team, but that was a football team that wasn't even trying, that seemed to have given up, thrown in the to. Jacob had an article yesterday stating that it seems Nuno isn't particularly liked around the ground, which isn't that important. But he seems to have a very distant relationship with his players. He seems to completely ignore quite a few of them. I thought he was nuts to take this job when it came up so soon after leaving Forest, and he has. He's only won two out of 15 games. But I do know they're bringing in. They've brought in a player that's his signing and they're about to bring in another. So does that mean he's secure in his position? It's West Ham, so it's impossible to tell.

B (23:18)

Yeah. Yeah. His Ready Brett glow from Forest has definitely disappeared. And he's back to dying Jedi, isn't he? Very much so. It is. It's sort of quite extraordinary, Nick, isn't it? I mean, the interesting thing with this recruitment in January will be. Is. Is any of it good? Because their recruitment for so long has been so bad, you almost presume if West Ham buys someone it won't work. Is my instant presumption.

D (23:43)

Yeah. And they've just spent, or are spending, I think around £20 million on Fairly Young Brazilian striker from. From Gil Vicente. I think it is in Portugal who has. Has a good record. But I tend to think that in this kind of scenario that the Portuguese market is one that Tends to see a struggling English club coming a bit at this time of year. I may be proved wrong, but their recruitment has been scattergun, unthought through and pretty weird at times for years now. I think we're way beyond the point at West Ham where you point the finger at any manager. We're way, way, way beyond that point. It's a job that makes fools of anyone. The ludicrous thing, of course, is that we're talking about them as dead certs for relegation or something. But they're only four points off. It's Forest, I think, at home on Thursday. Forest, who had been on a decent run and you quite fancy to get out of it, have now lost, I think, four on the spin. They seem to have had a few stinkers in them. They didn't really show up at Villa the other day, so they're only one result away from that glimmer of hope and maybe one or two signings away from it. But just based on all the evidence of the last half decade or so, it's hard to see things, you know, perking up very quickly.

B (25:02)

Yeah. Tuesday, that game, Seb.

C (25:04)

Yeah. Oh, you scared me there, because I'm doing that game and I.

B (25:08)

Just for Seb's interest. It's tomorrow, mate. Yeah.

C (25:11)

I got scared also to one final point on West Ham. They've just sold Luis Guillerme, right, who they signed for 25 million, I believe, and he's barely played for them. He's had injuries. I think he had a back problem. And now they've sold him, I think, about 16 million or something. So they made a loss on this young player. And the whole point of buying those players is that you sell them on for hire if you're West Ham, I think, in that position. And that's just another example of their poor transfer policy.

B (25:40)

Yeah. So that is it.

D (25:41)

Absolutely.

B (25:42)

And we have a pot on Wednesday morning. So we will lead with whatever happens at the London Standards in West Ham and Forest. But it could be quite a stressful watch for those sides involved.

A (25:53)

I think Forest will batter them.

D (25:55)

Yeah.

B (25:55)

I mean, that's what I expect, but Forest haven't. We'll get on to them in a bit, but, you know.

D (26:01)

Yes.

B (26:01)

I mean, it is West Hat if you can't win this. That's. That is, you know, that is the West Ham way, Karen, isn't it?

A (26:06)

It's just when Forest lost against Man City, I thought they played really, really well. I was thinking, there's no chance in hell of these, this lot getting relegated if they can play like this on a semi regular basis, even though they lost the game, I thought they were brilliant and I thought they deserve something. I'll be very surprised if they don't beat West Ham quite comfortably and they.

B (26:27)

Should finish above West Ham given the quality of their squad that, that there's no doubt about that. But as I said, we'll get to Forest in a bit but we'll start part two at Craven Cottage. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Fulham 2, Liverpool 2. Archie got in touch to say please refer to Harrison Reed by his full name of the Ginger Iniesta tomorrow. Thank you. Will Jeans from the Athletic saying 514 different players have scored in the Premier League between Harrison Reed's last two goals in the competition. Nick, it is an absolutely amazing strike. It's absolutely perfect.

D (27:09)

What an incredible hit. And I mean I heard on a slot afterwards explaining it in terms of Liverpool's setup from throw ins and, and stuff like that. Maybe with a bit of a nod to their having ditched the set piece coach a little while back. But, but I'm sorry, you cannot legislate for that. It's not even a case of having the euphoria of a seemingly 94th minute winner, 95th minute winner and then switching off it. It's just a player who never does this. Picking up the ball in an area where he never really shoots from, painting the most perfect and clean top corner strike that you will see in the entire season. And fair play, you could see that Harrison Riedel almost didn't know where to run. He was kind of like he looked delighted but he also looked really, really surprised if you look at his face. I mean, I think that goes for tens of thousands of us who were watching it to be honest. But yeah, wonderful moment from a player who has been barely played in the league this season. I think his starts have all come in the, in the Carabao cup if I'm not mistaken. Barely come off the bench. Seemed like a dead set to maybe get the championship this month. Maybe still will be but fantastic. And you know Fulham, much as Liverpool improved I think in the second half and quicken their passing up, a couple of decent goals fallen were well worthy of a point. They're just a team that is ultra competent and stays in games and even if you feel like you haven't, I don't know how to put it. Even if you feel like you haven't seen them for periods in a game, they're always still there, just not always producing moments like that. It was incredible.

B (28:56)

He did say he did it in training but I'm, you know, and everyone's like, do you do that in training? I've always liked him as a player. And the ball actually said it just sits up just, just as he strikes it, it just almost. Someone just tees it up for him. It's like it's perf perfect.

C (29:08)

Well, I just feel like we should dedicate the rest of the pod to Harrison Reed and I don't think Archie would mind that at all because you spoke about Iniesta. Comparing him to. It was like the Iniesta goal against Chelsea, the way he struck it but from further out it was, it was just a beautiful goal. And he's got, he's got such a great name as well. I can't work out if it's an estate agents or a lettings company or a financial advisor sort of men's.

B (29:33)

Oh yes, middle aged men, men's clothing, isn't it?

C (29:36)

That would be on Fulham, you know, Fulham Palace Road or something.

B (29:39)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

C (29:40)

I get what you're saying and I think I commentated on his last goal as well. I think against Villa I might be wrong. It was that long ago and I remember going to the game against Forest whenever that was over the Christmas period at some point and if Fulham support was saying to me, I'm worried today about, you know, we got players unavailable, we might have to start Harrison Reed. You know, I just think this is how football goes full circle. Even seeing Iwobi yesterday in I think Nigeria training with Chaquesi and telling him about Harrison Reed's goal. The Chiquasi's reaction is like, what, what.

B (30:11)

Are you talking about?

C (30:14)

And I just think that's just magic.

A (30:16)

It was quite telling cause when the goal, when he struck the shot and it went into the top corner, Sander Berg was standing nearby in the penalty area and he just put his hands to his head in total disbelief. And what he just seen and the reaction of all the players was quite telling. They were obviously delighted for him. Also completely shocked that he managed to pull that off. But I must confess I didn't even know Harrison Reed was still at Fulham.

B (30:46)

So what a way to announce it.

A (30:49)

He'd moved on somewhere else.

B (30:51)

I mean, I suppose it is a salient, salient reminder that all these people that we say are hopeless or whatever are actually really quite good at kicking a football. What did you make of, of Liverpool's performance?

D (31:02)

I felt in the, in the first half it was the fairly ponderous and Slow and slightly turgish stuff we've seen in, in their previous game. To be honest. It's. It's obviously not where they want it to be, availability wise. I mean you had Gakpo ploughing a bit of a furrow up up there, didn't you? You've got Salah obviously away Ekitike. I think it's his hamstring, isn't it? To make it. You've, you've got a terrible injury that Esac suffered and, and they just looked very devoid of ideas. They, they just towards the end of that first half I thought started getting a bit of joy in behind down that inside right, right channel. And I thought maybe, maybe they'll get, get a bit of joy second half. And then to be fair they did quicken it up after Harry Wilson's goal, which you know, we had to wait a while to have confirmed. But he's, he's on fantastic form by the way. Amazing. We should mention, we should mention Harry Wilson. He's, he's absolutely on one and it was another very good finish. They quickened it up. I think they deserved the equalizer from Wirtz which similarly we had to wait a while for. But I think he'll have been pleased that counted. That's now a couple of goals I think and an assist for him in fairly short space of time and maybe takes the monkey off the bat for him a little bit after that investment. I thought he worked very hard and played quite well all game and then you think they've won it. It was an absolutely delicious delivery by Frimpong, by the way, for the goal from Gakpo which went in off some part or other off his body. It was very similar to a ball from Gusto actually for Man City from which Enzo scored two absolutely wonderfully teased right footed deliveries from there. And I felt, yeah, there was enough in that second half given the personnel for him to think, okay, we're, we've got a bit of rhythm going, maybe we'll snatch three points here. And then it wasn't to be for reasons that we discussed, but I felt it was in short a performance of two halves from them. But we're nowhere near seeing what they can or should be capable of. That's partly because they're just not playing well enough and partly I think because the availability is not great at the moment.

B (33:09)

Just on the Wirtz goal, I've seen loads of controversy, Seb, about whether that's offside or not because it didn't quite match up with the way the grass is cut, but there is every chance that the grass isn't cut in perfectly straight lines.

C (33:21)

I don't know.

B (33:22)

No one seems to have mentioned this. You know, maybe the Fulham groundsman wanted to gaslight everybody by just cutting it at a slight angle, but everyone's just convinced that the moan lines have to be exactly straight. No, that's not. He's not mowing them with like var lines, is he? He's just mowing the grass in a kind of straight line. Anyway, I just thought no one had to.

D (33:43)

No one.

C (33:44)

No one's ever. Yeah, I've thought that, but no one's ever said that out loud.

B (33:47)

Yeah, well, I just did, so it's mine. No, you're free to use that in the. Wherever you like to discuss this podcast with your friends. You may use that as your own.

D (33:57)

It was great, great to see that go count because we've had years and years of these offside by a toenail nonsense. And you know, now I, I think I saw someone put it on social media like now we know that level is actually level and should be a goal. And I think that's exactly it. And hopefully common sense prevails a bit more like that in future because too many goals like that have been ruled out.

B (34:22)

Unless Arsene Menga has his daylight idea away, which is possibly the worst idea. And anybody who thinks it through and still thinks it's a good idea, like, oh dear, we've lost arsene anyway. Leeds 1, Man United 1. I love this game, Barry. I thought it was a good fun. Fun?

A (34:36)

Yeah, it was quite entertaining. Both teams missing quite a few key players and you saw that the paucity of experience on the Men's United bench. There they were missing Bruno Fernandez, Harry Maguire, Kobe, Mainu Mason, Mount Delict Yellow and Buemo Mazraui. And Leeds had amputee Joe Roden, Dan James. I thought it was a pretty even contest. A draw was probably a fair result. Brendan Aronson apparently is not particularly popular with Leeds fans. I wasn't aware of that. But that this has come to pass in, in recent times, I thought his goal was very well taken. Bit of a boo boo by Aiden Heaven. But Aronson, you know, if. If he's not chasing down what should have been a lost cause, then that goal doesn't happen. I suppose the most of the attention will be on Amarim's quite chippy post match press conference in which I don't know whether he was promised things that are now not going to be delivered or if he was told what his role would be. And that's now changed. But it certainly seems like him and Jason Wilcox, the director of football at Manchester United, have fallen out. And as we saw Moresco, these battles tend to end one way. Amarim, the one thing I would say is he strikes me as someone who doesn't care whether he gets fired or not. And that's quite a nice way to be, isn't it?

B (36:14)

Jamie Jackson writing that Amarim's future is in the balance with the head coach's strained relationship with the director of football, Jason Wilcox, a factor in what is viewed as an unpredictable situation at the club. How does Stuart Ripley feel about him? That's the big question. Yeah. So Amarim said, I just want to say I came here to be the manager, not the coach in every department, the scouting department, the sporting director. They need to do their job, I will do mine for 18 months and then we move on. I just want to say I'm going to be the manner of this team, not just the coach. I was really clear on that. That's going to finish in 18 months and then everyone is going to move on. That was the deal. That is my job, not to be a coach. If people cannot handle the Gary Nevilles and the criticisms of everything, we need to change the club. Good news for Gary Neville after Jamie Carragher got a lot of coverage in the Mo Salah situation.

C (36:58)

It's interesting, isn't it, when managers call out people in the media. Obviously Gary's an ex player, but it just shows the traction and influence that these things have and that these things do get through to them eventually. I agree wholeheartedly that he basically, he's been given a good contract. He's probably recognized the fact that Manchester United really don't want to sack their manager and pay them out. And so he's got a free pass, really, in his eyes. So he's thinking, I'll stick to my philosophy. If I am. If I do get sacked, then the next potential employer knows what I'm about and that will do me. There's what I found extraordinary. And obviously when this game was on, I was. I was at St Andrews, so I, you know, I didn't watch the whole game, but having seen Manchester United several times in the flesh over the last month, it seems to be when you think they're onto something, then Amarim will change it and go against that completely. You think, oh, he's changed his formation, this is working, or he's selecting that player that's working and then he'll flip it round. And I've never seen a situation where almost everybody universally was in disagreement about him taking Xerxe off at half time of the Wolves game. And then we're waiting to find out was it an injury or was it tactical. And in the post match interview straight away he just says tactical. So it's fueling everybody. And obviously Gary covering the game with him and we're doing his podcast after and I told him and his face when he found it was tactical, it was just like, it's just not right. It's just not right. This shouldn't happen. And I, I wonder now because who is still for him. Obviously there will be players who he's selecting who will be happy he's the manager still. But you look around, just think any other manager in the league would probably feel they could do better than him right now. So he seems to know, well, what else can I do to get sacked? I'll just keep going and being myself and maybe other employers will see this in happy days.

D (38:49)

Got to ask what United are doing though, like, well, what both parties are doing because firstly he was appointed as head coach, not manager. That was the announcement. Now correct me if I'm wrong because I may be, but I don't think any of his immediate predecessors were appointed as head coach. He was appointed by Man United in a bit of a departure as a head coach. Now traditionally, not always, but usually the head coach is operating within the structure ordained by the club. We are a club that plays this way. You come in, you do that. But the club knew they were getting someone in who would only play 3, 43 and still wants players for what he described as a few days ago, the perfect 3, 4, 3. Still looking for players for that. And the club knew that's what they were getting. So in mid flight for Jason Wilcox or whoever to be telling him we don't want to do it this way, we need to do it another way. From the information we have available to us, that seems very, very strange and it seems like very, very muddled thinking. It seems almost to me like they did what United have done for the last 10 years and picked the shiniest, you know, accessory the guy who was doing, doing a good job and getting throwing right up, sit sporting and never really thought about it properly. It feels very muddled, it feels unnecessary from all parties and Amarim is now throwing his toys out of his pram. And I just wonder also whether it's funny that this has happened for different reasons. But in similar ways with him and Miriska in the space of a week or two. I wonder if, and it's probably not a conscious thing, but I wonder if there's a kind of kickback against the fact that managers have to front up every week and explain these decisions that are being taken by sporting directors, by data gurus, by owners, by people above and around them every single week. And we're not going to hear from Jason Wilcox. He won't be getting oppressor in a few days time. We don't hear from the guys at Chelsea, at these big clubs where there's such enormous structures now and you have so many high power people making decisions. It doesn't all fall on the manager who is the one who takes the rap. Sorry, head coach, whatever. Who is the one who, who takes the rap week in, week out. That is not a particularly original point, but I think it's just interesting in, in these two cases that the manager is pushing back a bit because, you know, there's a lot going on above and around them that they really are not answerable for.

A (41:25)

I, I think we, we. While we don't hear directly from Jason Wilcox, I think we do hear from Jason Wilcox. He uses, you know, preferred favorite journalists or pundits or whatever to get his views across.

B (41:41)

Maybe it's personal because he could never fit in a perfect 343, isn't he? He's in a 4, 42 every day of the week. To the hill Dickinson, Everton 2, Brentford 4. Let's talk about Igor Thiago Barry, he didn't score at all in December. He's now on 14 for the season though, with this hat trick behind only Erling Haaland, you know, and he wants to lead the line for Brazil at the World cup. And there are so many Brazilian number nines in the Premier League, you feel like he might be the best one of them.

A (42:08)

He was certainly the best one on the pitch yesterday. What are the odds that Beto and Tierno Barry both score in the same game and Everton still managed to lose it? That's quite something. But Igor Thiago, yeah, he's certainly making a case to be the Brazilian number nine of choice for the English top flight. I'm not sure what the competition is elsewhere. While you say he had a dry December, he, he got his hat trick yesterday. Erling Haaland's having a bit of a dry patch himself at the moment. So it was a really good hat trick. He's a very, very good player. I think a lot of people think Brentford signed him in the summer. He's actually been there since the summer before, but I think he missed most last season, if not all of it through injury. But he's really, really good. This was another good win for Brentford. Keith Andrews is making fools of a lot of people who thought the combination of an inexperienced manager and Brentford losing Thomas, Frank and several key players was. Would spell doom for them. They're doing really, really well. And it was bad defeat for Everton, but they're still in that mix, that very congested mix in the middle of the table where one or two wins can send you up towards the Champions League places. But yeah, another good win for Brentford.

B (43:41)

Yeah, four points between Chelsea and fifth. Fifth and Crystal palace in 14th. Brentford seventh at the moment. That'll do for part two. Part three will begin at Villa Park. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Villa 3, Forest 1 Seb, you're on commentary for this one. What did you make of it all?

C (44:05)

I divided this game into two halves in the fact that. I mean, they usually are. Many people do, yeah. I mean, it's the obvious way to look at a football match. So let's start with the first one because that's usually the first. First one. It was the most dominant I've seen aside this season in a half of football. And during the game. I have stats available and I'm looking through things, I'm thinking Villa have had a lot of the ball here and it was. I think it was their high share of possession under Emery in any game. It was the most passes they'd have in. Had an opponent's half under Emery. It was. It was a situation where I think Forest barely crossed the halfway line. And yet as the half wore on, you thought Arvilla actually going to score. I mean, they'd only had one shot on target before Watkins's goal. They were so dominant. And we found out an effect because of what Deitch said after the game, that that was his plan was to try and just sit off Villa. But what I saw differently with this one, which is probably some is beginning to be a concern for Forest supporters, is what Deutsch's template is going to be going forward. Because we speak about the West Ham game. How is he going to approach that? He cannot play like he did against Villa in other games because they really will get on his back. You have players who can get on the ball and. And make things happen. Anderson, Gibbs, White. They even had backwards starting today, who's barely had a look in. He's had injuries, but also barely had a look in. And they just didn't get on the ball. They spent the whole half defending. I think Murillo, it took him 10 minutes before he had for his first touch and the game got away from them. But Villa were frustrated. But we know that Villa only score bangers, and they certainly did in this game, go to the second half to jump forward. And it was frustrating for Forest from a different reason, because they conceded straight after half time. There were errors in that goal. Perhaps Hutchinson could have tracked cash. And then all of a sudden they got themselves back into it. And then Villa kicked on again. And then John Victor, who's been on this run of matches for them. And people have been saying, why is he starting over? Sells, even though Sells his back injured himself while being halfway up the pitch. And you want to give as much credit to Villa as you can, but it was really striking how Forest approached this game and how they performed. And maybe Villa didn't give them a chance because Telemans and Camaro were excellent. But seeing John McGinn score his first brace ever in the Premier League week was something where you just think, is this more about Forest than it is about Villa today, even though Villa were excellent, needed to bounce back.

B (46:34)

Yeah, it was funny seeing Victor all. I hope he's all right. But, you know, that for, you know, begins first touch, you go, I'm not sure where. Where's the goalkeeper? It was a bit like it was going to the Champions League recently, where I thought there was a pitch invader, but actually it was Manuel Neuer or something like that. I can't remember who it was.

C (46:49)

Max. I said on comms, I think I said, where's the goalkeeper? I went nowhere as it went in, so I think.

B (46:54)

I think that's why. Sounds good.

D (46:56)

Yeah.

B (46:57)

Sean Dyche said, the mentality is there, but you can't keep giving yourself a mountain to climb. Players were switching off to the basics. We've worked on it and shown them, but this is the job I never expected to be easy when I got here. As we said, huge game tomorrow for them. West Ham Simon says.

C (47:10)

Any other.

B (47:11)

Spurs fans secretly praying for Armageddon before the end of the Premier league season. Spurs 1, Sunderland 1. Barry. They were booed off again. I just think 11. They'll just be booed off now forever. It's. It's sort of. It just feels so bleak. They were okay in this game for quite a lot of it, but at the end they didn't win and they're not that exciting to watch.

A (47:29)

I thought spurs fans were being a bit hard on Thomas Frank, but having seen their performance against Brentford and then the way they backed off Sunderland yesterday while in a commanding position, I can comment around as a way of thinking it's fine playing dour defensive on an entertaining football. If you're winning games, well, it's kind of fine. But when you're not winning games, then that's not acceptable. Costs a lot of money to go and watch Tottenham or have a season ticket at Tottenham. So you want a bit of bang for your buck. They probably should have won this game. They probably should have put it beyond Sunderland by half time. But they didn't. And then they sat back, invited Sunderland on. Sunderland took full advantage, although their goal. Sunderland's goal was superb. Just back to front. Sweeping move. Brilliant. One, two between Brobie and Enzo Le Fay and Sunderland rescued a point and I think they probably deserved it. They're coping very well with the absence of so many key players at afcon. And spurs got booed off again. And then I saw a picture on social media last night, or someone put it in a WhatsApp group. I'm on. Of a gang of Sunderland fans going back home on the train. And they were all tucking into a curry on the train, which has to be well beyond the realms of acceptable behavior.

D (49:01)

I think you're right.

A (49:03)

Stinky food on a train. Come on, lads. Heads.

C (49:06)

Yeah.

A (49:06)

The slide down.

B (49:07)

I did like Mike saying on the radio, I swear I just heard that Mr. Blobby had equalized against Spurs. I had to pull over.

C (49:11)

Brobby. Brobby.

B (49:12)

Brobie.

D (49:14)

Yeah.

B (49:15)

Rumor that Sunderland are in for Firmin Lopez from bars over 70 million. I mean that can't be real but you know, it sounds mad, doesn't it? Quickly Newcastle beat Crystal Palace 2 nil and Brighton beat Burnley 2 nil. Nick, any strong thoughts on either of those games?

D (49:33)

Not especially. In only the Burnley it's starting to look quite a lot bleaker for. I think it's at six points off Forest now. There's not. Not really much sign of spark from them after. After a decent start to the season really. And Brighton on the other hand are yeah 10th playing some quite good stuff.

A (49:56)

December really is the cruelest month for Brighton in. Since Fabian Herzler got there. I think they played 12 games across two Decembers and they haven't won any of them. And this win was. Or. Yeah, this win was their first in seven and it. They're still eighth so make of that what you will.

B (50:17)

Yeah. On the Newcastle palace game. I think, you know, Newcastle are good at St. James parks. Their palace do look knackered. They had a great chance of nil. Nil will cues. But palace look really tired, don't they?

C (50:27)

Yeah, you feel for them. And as we mentioned earlier about injuries and fitness and trying to keep teams together, trying to make the balance and I think across the board we're seeing whether sides can ride that or not. Newcastle have their own problems in that sort of situation. I think Lewis Miley playing out of position was excellent in that game and you know, that's so important for Eddie Howe as well. But for Glasnow, you, you do wonder, don't you? Because when the Brendan Johnson signing was made and you think Lars has played it a, a big part in maybe getting him, but whether he's going to be there at the end of the season is another matter. It's interesting how those things work out with Palace. They just, I think their mindset now is going to be can we try and win the Conference League and just, just, just, just keep yourselves, you know, middling around mid table because by winning the Conference League you qualify for Europe again. And that's going to be the interesting balance. Will we start to see a flip towards the back end of the season where they think, right, okay, we might rest some players in the Premier League. We don't see it that often from teams, but this could be a season where we do see it.

B (51:28)

On to other matters, Craig says with with all that's transpired in Venezuela, has anyone reached out to console Gianni Infantino? He'll be beside himself with regret. And not any FIFA peace prize, but the inaugural one too. Poor chap. Puds, he says, you can't blame Gianni. No one could have predicted that the famous self proclaimed war ender would unilaterally bomb yet another country. Totally out of character for Donald Trump over the weekend. You know, flippant questions aside, Nick, the USA carried out airstrikes on Venezuela. They captured its dictator, Nicolas Maduro, and his wife.

A (52:00)

Kidnapped, I think is the word you're looking for, Max. Not captured, as is being widely reported.

B (52:05)

Okay, kidnapped. Donald Trump was awarded the FIFA Peace Prize last month, whatever its worth is, and he said his New Year's resolution was world peace.

D (52:15)

How?

B (52:15)

What are FIFA tangled up in this, Nick? Or is this one of these things where, you know, Johnny will just say, ah, it's all fine, nothing to see here. Like it's embarrassed. Is it embarrassing for FIFA or is it past that?

D (52:25)

It's intensely embarrassing. And I give you, you saw when, when they were doing the ceremony to, to give Trump this award, such as it is the spiel that they read through beforehand about the wars he had supposedly stopped, which we all know after a fact check or two will be dubious or ausperious at best. They, they are hitching their colors to a must here, a political mast, and it, you know, it is blowing up and could blow up further in their faces.

B (53:00)

So let me rephrase that question, Nick. Not, not, not. Should they be embarrassed? Because they should be. But will they be embarrassed? Is the.

D (53:06)

I think a lot of people in FIFA will be embarrassed and are embarrassed. I think wherever the person, presumably they.

B (53:13)

Were embarrassed when he got the prize. Right? I mean, that doesn't.

D (53:16)

Yes, I think I, I think there is embarrassment within FIFA. This, wherever the guy at the very top is embarrassed is another matter entirely. But I was with him like I was, I was with about three weeks ago, very well known football figures, Von Amir Boban in Zagreb did a big interview with him that went out on the site 10 days or so ago. And Boban, as we all know, massive legend on the pitch, national hero in Croatia for his actions before and around the Yugoslavian war, then became a very influential and respected football administrator. He held key policy roles at FIFA, which he held for about three years before getting a job at Milan, then another at UEFA before he fell out with Alexander Cheffin on a point about the extension of Chevron's term limits. So he sort of burned brightly and briefly into very key senior positions. Don't agree with everything that he did. He was very pro pushing Var. He was very involved in the new Champions League format, although he toned it down, down from a 10 game format. He's been a very influential figure in football and I thought it was very interesting to hear what he had to say about this. As somebody who has been a top player and then has had a top role in football administration. And this just summed it up for me that a football person, a real football person who has been at the top of FIFA can say this. I'll read out some of it. He called it disrespectful and irresponsible. I couldn't watch it. I was surprised that he started to think in this way too political, obsessed with the politicians and all those stories. At the beginning it wasn't like this. Later it has started to go in a different way. Gianni isn't aware of what he's doing to himself and FIFA now, it shouldn't be a political organization, but now you're doing this. It's shameful. None of this can deny the good things he's done. But on the other hand, it shows that the way is lost and I'm sorry for that. I'm sorry for FIFA, sorry for him and sorry for football. And I just wonder, you know, zoning a Boban one person. But when somebody who's been in his position of influence is saying stuff like this about his former boss, who he has got a lot of time for and done some good work with in the past, surely something doesn't feel right, does it?

B (55:51)

I mean, it didn't feel right when it was given out. It feels even worse now. I Lord knows what happens between now and the World cup starting, but obviously we will keep covering it. Barry Fitbar. Not a good weekend for Wilfred Nancy. No, another, another one.

A (56:10)

This was his first and I suspect last Glasgow Derby. As Celtic manager like Seb, I think I would like to separate this game into two halves.

B (56:25)

Yeah, you can.

A (56:25)

The first in which Celtic took the lead through brilliant goal by Yang Hyun Yun should have been at least 4 nil up by half time. But as is the case with Celtic these days, couldn't put their chances away and we're only 1 nil up at halftime time. So the Rangers were still in the game. Danny Roll identified the problems that Rangers were facing, did something about them. Rangers then took over, dominated the second half and Wilford Nancy had no answers for the changes that his opposite number had made use of. Kermessi, formerly of Everton. He scored twice for Rangers. Mikey Moore, on loan from spurs, added a third. I mean, one of the goals Kermezzi scored was ridiculous. It came from a Celtic throw in. One of their players was bullied off the ball. Kermetti just ran the length of the the length of the Celtic half unopposed. Not sure what Aaron Trustee was doing, but he more or less ushered him towards goal and Ketti scored. But at the end of the game, throughout the second half, Nancy just looked absolutely bewildered and at a complete loss to know what to do. And as soon as the final whistle went, he just wandered down the tunnel on his own. It was at Celtic park, obviously what fans were left at the final whistle were not happy. A lot of fans gathered outside the front of the ground after the game, calling for the board to be sacked. And like at West Ham, the problems at Celtic go from the very top down. Wilfred Nancy's just a symptom rather than the cause of the problems they have. And Ewan Murray wrote an article just quite coruscating and he's a Hearts fan. He should be happy with that result, but just at a complete loss to know to understand the logic that led to Wilford Nancy being appointed to a position that's clearly he's not ready for.

B (58:34)

Sure. And I think he did that press conference after we did the Thursday part. It was that, I mean, that was more entertaining than quite a lot of football matches I've watched. I do recommend it, but you know, if I say I hope he wins the league, maybe I'll get another front page in that Celtic fan's website of me holding a golf club saying Max Rushton thinks anyway, no, Max.

A (58:53)

Max Rush comes out to bat with a golf club.

B (58:56)

Yeah, I do. Nick, you've got got 15 seconds on Ipswich Town.

D (59:00)

Oh, Ipswich corner. It's back. Excellent. Okay. Well, it's. Yeah.

B (59:05)

And that's your time. Thank you so much.

D (59:08)

I mean, that's pretty much all there is to say. Weird old season, until yesterday's postponed game at Portsmouth would have been up in the top two for pretty much the first time this season. No, it's a weird one because, and this is a more sort of existential thing for parachute clubs in general, I think. So I might extend this to 16 seconds. No one seems to be enjoying it too much among the fan base. There was kind of sort of giddy, giddy back to back promotions two years ago and now that promotion seems to be simply business. You know, get it done, get up there. Bottom line, there's quite a lot of angst and you know, every single point dropped is moaned out and the players get quite a lot of stick from the support. It's quite a quiet home stadium. I think that speaks to more how football is now for a club where there is expectation rather than, you know, anticipation of pulling off a miracle. But the championship promotion race in general is looking very interesting. Now. Coventry, as Seb I think may have seen over the weekend, having a bit of a drop off back with a good 40 win over Sainz. And I think it's going to be a big January window in the championship. I think this maybe is a division where rather than what you do over Christmas, it's all about what you do in the window and how you strengthen. I remember two years ago Ipswich went up, but they won one game in nine over December and January. Then they got Keefer Moore and Jeremy Sarmiento in and really pushed on. So I think any Coventry fans worried about their current state sticky patch might just wait and see what Frank Lampard, who will be back to, we gather, does in the transfer window. I think the prospects for that division will be very much apparent once the windows shut. And I think that was 15 minutes. 15 seconds. 15 minutes even, and goodness knows how many seconds.

B (61:04)

In many ways, that wasn't 15 seconds. But we forgive you, Nick, and that'll do for today. We'll do an EFL pod on Wednesday, by the way, along with that West Ham Forest game. But for now, that's all we've got time for. Thank you, Seb.

C (61:17)

Thank you.

B (61:18)

Thank you, Nick.

D (61:19)

Thank you, Max.

B (61:19)

Cheers, Baz.

A (61:20)

Thank you.

B (61:21)

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. This is the Guardian.