Barry Glendenning (2:00)

Psychics and.

Barry Glendenning (2:03)

The predictions we made at the start of the season. Think things change Max, it's quite difficult to foresee the say the massive drop off in form that Liverpool are going to have to foresee that Virgil Van Djk will not be up to his usual high standards. See also Ibrahima Kanate Mo Salah. You can only speculate as to how new players will fit into systems. Sunderland's new players have all hit the ground running. Other teams, new players, not so much. I think everyone presumed Alexander Isaac for example will be a very good addition to the Liverpool squad. Thus far he hasn't been due to his own shortcomings and due to the fact that Liverpool players seem incredibly reluctant to get the ball to him at speed. But no, the short answer is, I suppose, yeah, we're all rubbish. Yeah, but I. I have no problem with being called rubbish. What I do object to is people calling me or other people rubbish when they have the benefit of 2020 hindsight. So unless you have also made predictions at the start of the season, put them in the public domain, then I don't think you're really in a position to criticise.

Max Rushden (3:22)

Yes, there you go, Mike. Anyway, should we start at elland road? Leeds 3, Chelsea 1. I certainly didn't predict this one, Jacob.

Jacob Steinberg (3:29)

No, but maybe Chelsea fans might have because after such a good week with, you know, beating Barcelona so emphatically and getting the draw with arsenal with. With 10 men playing so well in that game, I think they came into it wondering what they might do against the supposed lesser side. It's been a bit of a problem for Chelsea down the years is that they, especially in the last few, especially in the last few years, is that they capable of raising themselves in the big games and then in the games that you need to win, they don't turn up. And that's why they are part of why they haven't won the title since 2017. So this was a really big test that Maresca kind of talked about post Barcelona. It very quickly brought up the Leeds and the Bournemouth game coming up on Saturday as being massive for them and they weren't able to pass that. He made the changes which when it's been done this season, the rotation, it's worked in certain games, certain other times it's not quite clicked. The Karabagh game away in the Champions League last month comes to mind which they were kind of lucky to draw two, two.

Jacob Steinberg (4:35)

And last night again he was out. Obviously enforce changes in midfield without Caicedo after the suspension against Arsenal. But he left out Neto, he left out Fafana, brought in players who just weren't quite up to it and it seemed like they almost. That inexperience kind of kicked in a little bit as well, where perhaps they weren't able to withstand that early barrage from Leeds and were they quite appreciative of what a Leeds v Chelsea game was going to be like at Elham Road? I mean, they might have expected a promoted side to really get into them, but were there the players in that team who quite appreciated the historic significance of what this would actually mean to Leeds and were there the players to get them through that? So the first 15, 20 minutes were able to withstand everything that Leeds through at the minute. It just kind of looks like they weren't able to get through that and then start playing their football, conceding a goal from a set piece. It just looks like they were bullied throughout that period and didn't do. Didn't do any of the basics right. And so they end up losing a game that ultimately they should have won. This probably why they're very insistent that they aren't title challenges.

Max Rushden (5:45)

And Wilson, I guess Daniel, you know, leads. They're big, aren't they?

Jacob Steinberg (5:48)

And.

Max Rushden (5:49)

And as Jacob Elus, who leads Chelsea, you know, has that historic significance. Did Daniel Farker play that match of the day from the 60s when everyone just beat each other up because they really. It's such a cliche, but it just felt like Leeds wanted it more. Brian.

Jonathan Wilson (6:03)

So it's the 1970 FA Cup Final and replay, isn't it? The two, the two incredibly violent games between Chelsea and Leeds, which I think was responding to. To stuff that had happened previously. But I, Jacob will know this better than me, but it seems to me that F is absolutely huge, that his injury has really sort of hurt Chelsea this season with Colville being out as well. And he obviously can't play or struggle to play more than one game a week. And I think if you look at games when F has played this season, I don't think they've let in more than one in a game when he started, apart from a Brentford game where he went off at halftime and obviously the second half of that game where things went wrong. So I think they really need Fofana's presence there to give him a solidity at the back. That is a problem. They've got that.

Jonathan Wilson (6:48)

They are lacking experience and they are lacking calm heads. And so if a couple of them are out, they do struggle a bit. The fact that Farker went for the two up front, you know, the five, three, two finished with again City or they changed to half time against City. I think playing against a strike pairing is difficult for defenders now. They're not familiar with it. So if you've got two fairly inexperienced defenders and most of their football has been one picks up the lone center forward, the other covers behind and suddenly you've got two players to deal with. That's a challenge that even experienced players have sort of forgotten how to deal with. Never mind. Yeah, the, the, the. The inexperienced players Chelsea had last night and Big Man.

Max Rushden (7:28)

Big man was quite fun, Barry, wasn't it? Meter and Calvert, Lewin.

Barry Glendenning (7:31)

Yeah. And they really bullied the Chelsea center halves. Both of them played really well, I thought. I don't know if it's fair to say Maresa underestimated Leeds, but with Moyes cat suspension maybe resting, Rhys James was a mistake. But apparently his minutes have to be managed carefully so that it may have been the sensible decision to leave him out. Even though Chelsea clearly missed him, Baddy Shealy and Tosin Aderbio did not play well at all. Tos Narbo gave away two goals, but that was because Leeds bullied them. They're a very aggressive side. The Elland Road crowd really got behind them and I think Chelsea were intimidated by the atmosphere there last night. They're a very young team and that's quite the cauldron to go into. Leeds were just more aggressive, more determined and thoroughly deserved their win.

Max Rushden (8:36)

You often hear commentators say, you know, X won't score an easier goal in his career. And the match today commentator did say Dominic Calvert Lewin won't score an easy goal in his career. But has anybody scored an easier goal in their career? I'm trying now obviously all, all memory goes to David Nugent. But does anyone have a, an easier goal than that for Calvert Lewin?

Barry Glendenning (8:56)

Not off the top of my head.

Max Rushden (8:57)

Does that mean that is the easy. Is that the easiest goal? Is that the easiest goal ever then?

Jonathan Wilson (9:01)

If a chance is too easy, does that then bring it back around a little bit to the other side that there's a bit of you going, oh God, if I miss this, this will be the worst miss in the entire history of this sport. That's been going on for 150 odd years, 60 odd years. Does that then put pressure on because it's too easy.

Barry Glendenning (9:18)

And I think the fact that it is Dominic Calvert Lewin has to be factored in as well because does that affect the extreme. If you were going to put your house on anyone to miss that chance, he would definitely be on the short list.

Max Rushden (9:30)

But I don't think it's possible to miss it. That's the point. I see what you mean about the pressure Wilson because the ball is stopped and he like he's. It's in, it's basically in the goal. He's in the goal. I mean, I suppose Jacob, it's really good for him that he's got two in two because he has now got this kind of reputation of being a guy that doesn't. A striker that doesn't score goals. And there was a time when he was kind of the next off the rank. If Harry Kane got injured for England.

Jacob Steinberg (9:55)

Yeah he had that little period in the 2021 season I think and under. Under Ancelotti where he looked like he was potentially some kind of challenger to Harry Kane and he was. He was starting for England in a couple of friendlies I think. I think he scored at least one around that period. It was. It's kind of that blurry Covid period with empty ground so I can't quite remember the games but he got. He even went to the Euros the one. The Euro 2020 where they got the final. Don't think he actually played for. For England in, in that and just think there's points at which he wasn't even in the match day squad but he at that point he did look like a really top striker and there were bigger teams looking at him. But I think it's just the. After that partly I guess what happened at Everton the funk that they got into and also just the injuries with Calvert Lewin, I think it's really held him back but I actually do think he's a pretty good player. It's been the fitness with him and that's ultimately why he's at Leeds and not ended up with a bigger move. There have been clubs higher up the table who have looked at him and points last season where I think it was the summer of 2024 where there were some bigger teams wondering if he might make a good backup in certain situations just didn't. Didn't go with it and he's ended up in this situation instead. But if he's. If he's on form and if he's. If he's fit then I think they've got a pretty good experienced Premier League striker.

Barry Glendenning (11:21)

I think Armando Brosa has very much cornered the Premier League market for big strikers who don't score goals who also.

Max Rushden (11:30)

Part of the Everton funk. I mean the Everton funk is a real thing, isn't it? If you are. If you want to pick up Neil Mope. See see also if you wanna. If you want to be a striker that scores no goals get into the.

Barry Glendenning (11:41)

Everton and the two they have at the moment. I mean.

Max Rushden (11:46)

For our Barry and Beto the lead singers of Everton funk right now, aren't they? Tanaka's goal was a brilliant strike and good to see Cole Palmer back on the pitch. Let's go to Anfield. Oh Wilson Wilson Isidore. It's Wilson Wilson Isidore in injury time. What a ball from Rufes and you know how he's. He's sort of one on one, you know it's just an extraordinary moment in a football match that isn't it?

Jonathan Wilson (12:10)

Yeah, he was too straight I think is the problem that ideally in that circumstance is a forward you want a slight angle unless Alisson left a space which Alisson is very good in one on ones he pretty much had to go around him and by doing that you know he made the angle a bit tighter so the shot didn't have the power and Kears was able to get back. It just shows I think the sort of the intelligence of both Isadore and Rufes that some of them have been under real pressure for 10 minutes like barely able to get out of their box and Isador smart enough to think well if I just hang around 10 yards inside my own half I can make my run so I'm hitting speed before I can be offside. Rufes has clearly been aware of that. I don't know if that's something they've talked about but maybe that is something they can do. But I guess the pass is easier out of your hands. But still it's a great pass. I don't think so on the live to regret it but it does feel like two points that they could. Two more points they could have snapped up and they did hit the. I know Liverpool hit the woodwork as well but Sunderland did hit the woodwork twice in that game as well.

Max Rushden (13:04)

Yeah, I thought they were really impressive again Barry. I mean we've talked about the impressive parts of Sunderland but you know Brobbie held it up. It was a really good focal point. Xhaka again and they've got this really good mix of you know, your, your tough guys like Ballard and then your, your. Your Le Fays and your table Talby's have gotten real quality.

Barry Glendenning (13:21)

Yeah they were fearless. Pretty confident in what they were doing. I think they were somewhat helped by the fact that Liverpool did not play well at all. They were very slow and ponderous. I, I perfectly happy with that point. It would have been nice if they had nicked it at the end but they've been massively impressive. I do worry about the, the. The festive period. You know it's Manchester City next, then Newcastle at home, then they've loads of players going to afcon but that's. That will give the. Quite a few of the players who helped them win promotion who haven't really got much of a look in this season. It'll be time for them to step up and they'll be eager to prove themselves.

Barry Glendenning (14:07)

So I think it speaks volumes that the fact Sunderland went to Anfield, got a draw and could have won and nobody's massively surprised. I think that speaks volumes of what they've brought to the Premier League. A lot of neutrals seem to really like watching Sunderland and like what they're doing and that's, that's nice.

Max Rushden (14:31)

Two wins in seven. Anfield for Liverpool. Salah came on. Jacob didn't really do a lot. I only watched the second half live. But when Isak came off I, I didn't actually know he was playing like genuinely like I was like ah, he is there. Like it. It is quite extraordinary how little fluidity this side have.

Jacob Steinberg (14:48)

Yeah. There's a tweet doing the round at the moment among West Ham circles which, which is every team thinks their systems clicked when it just turns out they were playing West Ham. That's all it was.

Jacob Steinberg (15:04)

So he went with the same, the same setup as he did on Sunday and perhaps that was just a one off and it's not going to be a long term solution for them. Yeah, it just looks like they're so low on confidence and when, when, when the away form is seeping into the home form then that's a huge worry for Liverpool because you, you would just expect them to get through this kind of game even when it's been a struggle away from home. But instead it's now the Forest game, the PSV game. And okay, they got away with this one but they were really, they were really lucky. I mean the, I suppose they take the one positive is the speed that Chiesa showed to get back to clear that off the line. If anybody was wouldn't. He wouldn't be the player you would have expected to, to get back to stop Isidor scoring there. So Slot took that positive and you know, because he was saying Chiesa could have decided that's not up to me, it's up to, up to someone else to get back. But he at least showed the desire to get back there. But otherwise it's just, it just feels like it's a slump that they can't get out of and it's another hard game on, on Saturday because they've got to go to Leeds. So they're probably going to be really, really up for it after both, after what they've done last night and just when they, when they look at Liverpool and think that this is just such a, such a vulnerable, vulnerable team. I think the, probably the, the win at West Ham who was so poor and obviously the thing that happened with Paqueta at the end Skewed it as well may just be a one off and. And this is where they are at the moment.

Max Rushden (16:34)

How would you fix. If you are on a slot Wilson, what would you do?

Jonathan Wilson (16:37)

I mean I think not picking Salah makes sense and it's going to be forced on them anyway by the couple nations. I think it's now the 15th that they have to release players although FIFA does seem to have said that clubs can come up to individual arrangements which that's, that's a whole other issue. But it is sort of disgraceful how the cup nations has been treated given that any other tournaments a 14 day window, this is six days and clubs have been told actually you can come to your own arrangement. So that's kind of scandalous. But yeah, I don't know. There's so many players are out of form, confidence is low. Yeah, they're clearly short of defenders. I mean I'm sure they'd love to give Kanate a break from a team but they can't. They could have brought in Joe Gomez earlier I guess but now they don't have any fit right back so Gomez has to play at right back. I think, I mean it's not a case of writing this season off but I think it's pretty obvious now that the future does not include Salah. The future beyond the end of this season, maybe beyond January and so I guess building towards that future is all they can do while hopefully from their point of view getting in the top five and getting, getting in the Champions League. Yeah, the league's gone. Yeah.

Max Rushden (17:41)

Do you think Salah that's, you know, because he was so brilliant last season so. And look, we've talked about the impact of Jota on, on all the squad and the players and maybe it's affected Salah more. But is it physically you think that they need to plan without Salah?

Jonathan Wilson (17:56)

I think if you look at the players they signed in the summer and clearly that as well was slightly influenced by Jota, that they had to buy an extra centre forward that maybe they wouldn't have bought at this stage. And every time I say that I'm conscious that it feels slightly jarring in the context of a tragedy. But it did clearly mean they had to slightly change their transfer plans. I don't see how the players they brought in given that Wirtz was signed apparently with a promise he could play centrally. I don't see how you do that with a right sided forward who doesn't really track back if the future is that. 4, 2, 31 which Schlott used at Feyenoord, he seems to be trying to transition Liverpool towards. I don't really see the Salah fits in that other than as a sub given that he's not scoring goal. He's got four goals this season which is not terrible but it's not up to his standards. It doesn't justify the lack of defensive work he does, the lack of COVID he gives to his right back, which is part of the problem. I think they do have to look to the future and look at how this is going to work and even if they're almost using the second half of the season to hone what their transfer plans are next summer. So if there is still significant money on the table from Saudi Arabia for Salah, I think the right thing to do would be to look, to take it.

Jacob Steinberg (19:06)

It depends if Salah can adapt as well. I mean is he willing to adapt to being.

Jacob Steinberg (19:12)

A squad player for them? I mean it doesn't necessarily seem like the character who would happily take to that. I mean I remember being at the West Ham, Liverpool Gaming towards the end with Klopp was one of the very few games on the clock where Salah was dropped and there was the whole thing where he. The. The row over when he was coming on and he walked through the mix zone afterwards and I think he said if I, if I talk now there'll be fire. So not sure if he's the kind of player who would, who, who would think that I need to adjust in this way. I'm in my 30s. Maybe my, my minutes get managed but it's not actually, it's not actually wouldn't be out of this world for that to, for that to happen. I mean, you know, you look back at how Ferguson used to deal with gigs and skulls for example when they got into the 30s the minutes would be managed, they'd be targeted for certain games and they, they accepted it and their careers were, the careers were prolonged. And I mean Salah, it's not like it's just this season. If you look back to last season, the goals kind of dried up after the City away win in, in February. So this is actually quite a long dip in form by his standards that he's having. At the same time he's still capable of coming up with some amazing moments like the, the goal at Brentford this season. So there's probably still a use to him. It's just whether or not you. He's willing to, I think to, to adapt that use. I don't, I personally, I don't think he is. And I think the more likely scenarios, as Jonathan says, is, is the money from Saudi on the table. He's not going to go anywhere else on that contract.

Max Rushden (20:43)

Yeah. Lovely to see Luko9 make his premier League debut. People who watch Sunderland till I die will remember him as the second nicest person in it after that cabbie who I think was called Pete. And great to see super Kevin Phillips in the crowd. You know, interestingly, while cutting away to famous people really annoys me, cutting to club legends in the cheap seats I think is absolutely brilliant. More of it please. And Jacob mentioning Liverpool's away form seeping into the home form. I'm desperate for spurs away form to seeping into their home form but see if that happens at the weekend against Brentford. Anyway, that'll do for part one. Part two will begin at the amex.

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Max Rushden (21:56)

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Brighton 3 Villa 4 Villa a third Wilson six straight winners all competitions and this was a great comeback from them.

Jonathan Wilson (22:03)

Yeah, I mean 2N down at Brighton, they've got a great home record. You sort of, I mean Villa have been on this. Yeah, incredible run. It didn't win any of the first six games of the season and then was it 12 out of 14 since they've won? It was a 13 out of 15 now. But yeah, on an extraordinary one, they, they come back and they. Yeah, Bees are coming in for Martinez at fault for the first goal but then makes that astonishing save from Welbeck later on. One of those saves that actually when you see the replay doesn't look as good as it felt in real life but. Well, not in real life but in, in real speed. It's great reactions from Welbeck to get his head on it and direct it. Goal was. And great reactions from Bezot to save it. So they won the XG quite comfortably. Villa, which I was slightly surprised By. But yeah, if they hadn't had that sort of funk at the start. There was a lot of funk going around today, isn't there? The Villa funk. It's a funky pod where they literally just seem to be. They were sulking because they hadn't gotten the Champions League last season and then PSR stopped them spending a billion pounds on players or something. But once they got over that and noticed actually we do have a really good squad, then they're really reaping the benefits. And I think Daniel Marlin, I sort of did the game when they. They won at Leeds, was it two weeks ago. He came on a half time, made a huge difference in that game. I think he's a really gifted player.

Max Rushden (23:21)

O.E. watkins. Jacob. They'd gone on this great run without Watkins scoring any goals. He scored a couple. His second. Or was it his first? The one that put them just before halftime, I think where Morgan Rogers plays a brilliant pass and he finishes it like a. A a striker in form. Like if. If they add his goals. Sort of interesting that they are now third and have not been any part of any conversation about the title. I guess because Arsenal are probably better but you know they are putting themselves in the mix.

Jacob Steinberg (23:47)

Yeah. Did you see a celebration when he scored as well that. That second goal sort of ran into the net and sort of shouted at the Brighton fans behind.

Max Rushden (23:55)

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jacob Steinberg (23:57)

Did he say I don't know what. I don't know what looked like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. I don't know what was. I don't. They didn't really. It was hard to tell in the highlights what that was all about. But I quite enjoyed that bit of needle from Molly Watkins. He's kind of got that a little bit. I think he did it against. He did it against Brentford a couple of years ago when he went back there. And I think he always feels a little bit that he's a bit underestimated. I know there was sort of a bit of that feeling around. Around England, the Euros. He thought. Sort of thought people didn't have him, wouldn't have him in their squads and everything. And then he. I think he uses that as a bit of. As motivation at times. And obviously that summer goes and scores the goal against Holland to get him to the final. And I think this season again probably. He's probably feeling a bit miffed really. Being really being written off quite a lot and obviously his form hasn't been fantastic and I think Emery said before the game that they're Having to manage him because of this knee pain that he's playing through. Last season they probably would have been able to take him out because they had. For the start of the season, they had Duran. And then Rashford comes in this season having to play through it much more. That's coupled with having to play in the Europa League as well, Thursday, Sunday, so. So it's been probably physically grind, physical grind for, for Ollie Watkins, but we do know that he's one of the best strikers in the Premier League when he's, when he's on form and it's good to see him get back amongst the goals. Another tough one on, on Saturday to come because they've got that Arsenal. A bitterly weakened Arsenal defense to come, but still probably the best defense in the league, even with that. But he'll be feeling so much more confident from those two. You know, the first one's just a poacher's goal, but the second one is such a good finish. Just as you say, it looked like it hadn't been what, 10, 15 games since he scored. I think he'd only scored one all season. That was against Fulham, as you say. For them to do that without him scoring, it's a bit like Chelsea going on that massive unbeaten run without, without Cole Palmer.

Barry Glendenning (25:56)

He.

Jacob Steinberg (25:56)

He is so. He is so important to them. So if, if they can, if they can get him going again, then I don't think the title, but I think they'll be up there for the top four or top five.

Barry Glendenning (26:04)

That second goal Watkins scored was very serious, end to end stuff because Villa thought they'd scored from a corner. Cash sent the ball in. Konsa headed the ball against the post. But as the ball hit the post, Bartford Broggan fell into the net. So the net rippled and I think Villa's players thought they'd scored. Certainly the fans did. Brighton broke up field. I think it was Brian Gruder shot straight at Bezo. He gave the ball to Torres who sent Watkins away on his bike. It was quite fun because Watkins had three defenders breathing down his neck as he went through. On goals though, it was very well taken. Finish under quite a lot of pressure.

Max Rushden (26:48)

Yeah, I think it was Rogers that put him through, but you're right. I really thought I was waiting for goal line technology. I was waiting for them to say that it. For me, it like the ball had crossed the line completely and it was a sort of not quite a Wilson scenario possible. Wilson, you know, a Wilson scenario variant without a handball in it or whatever your scenario was. But I guess Barry, that win for Villa really sets up the Arsenal game at the weekend. Or should we not. Should we not go on weather wins, set up games? After what we did to the Chelsea Arsen game. Lewis dunk made his 500th appearance for Brighton. So well done to him. This club is my whole life. I've been here since I was 10 or 11 so it means everything to me. The pride and the honor to put on the shirt and the captain's armband. Every game to play, every day in training is still there and it always will be. That's some feat, isn't it? Should we go to the Emirates? Arsenal 2 Brentford nil. You were there Jacob. Did you have a nice time?

Jacob Steinberg (27:36)

Yep, I had a nice time.

Max Rushden (27:37)

Good. I'm pleased.

Jacob Steinberg (27:38)

It wasn't a. It wasn't a particularly memorable game. I mean luckily I do remember what happened less than 24 hours on so that's okay. But by, by tomorrow I think I might have forgotten a lot of this.

Max Rushden (27:51)

Game because yeah, it was very much one of those. When they, if they win the title, no one will go back to this game. I think whoever was on Cocom said that and I was like yeah, that's exactly the right thing to say about this game.

Jacob Steinberg (28:00)

Yeah, I suppose the, the one, the one, two, two little bits away from it that it's. It's the night after Manchester City conced four at. At Fulham. You know brings you know, the whole Mourinho back in 2004. 54 as a hockey score. And then the night after Arsenal just run through a very efficient 2 nil win in a home game against mid table side and I suppose that that brings up the contrast and you look at all their rivals or closest challengers teams around them this at the moment villa can see 3 Chelsea concede, 3 City concede, 4 Arsenal without Moscow who went off in the first half after a bad fall. I think he hurt his knee. And Saliba and Gabriel already out. They very easily get the clean sheet. There was one Brentford chance through Kevin Shah to hit the bar. They had quite a lot of pressure at certain points in the second half. Quite a lot of set pieces, a lot of long throws. So the crowd gets a bit nervous. Arsenal weren't really playing that well after a good start in which Mourinho scored. But they never really, they were never really allowed to test riot. They never really looked like Brentford never really looked like scoring. And that's probably what's going to, to set Arsenal apart this season is, is just that solidity. The other element is, is Marino scoring again. Gets the assist against. Against Tottenham to open that game up. The equalizer against Chelsea. And then, you know, 11 minutes into this one is there for. On. On the end of a Ben White cross. Ben White looking very good on his second league start of the season. It's now a little. I don't know if it's a dilemma for. For Arteta, but it's an interesting situation up front because they've. They've been calling for a striker for two or three years for him to spend big on a striker. They get one in Gyokerez, he's injured. In comes the false nine in Marino and suddenly they're going well, they've got to play with the false nine because he's got three assists, three. Three goals and four assists in the. In the last month. So it'll be interesting to see how he. How he plays that. Whether. Whether Gyokerez is able to actually get ahead of this guy who I think a lot of people isn't. There's nothing particularly interesting about Mikel Marino, but he's so efficient and he keeps coming up with. With big moments for them. It'll be an interesting one for him to. To. To go with, but I don't think it's a dilemma because it's just he's got so many options now. He can probably use Gyokerez in. In certain points to get them through probably a game like last night if he'd been fit. And then Marina or a player like Havertz in. In the. In the difficult away games which they've got coming up on. On. On Saturday.

Barry Glendenning (30:38)

Was Marino actually playing as a false 9, though, or was he just playing as a center forward?

Jacob Steinberg (30:44)

Yeah, I mean, based. He's not. He's not a striker. He's.

Barry Glendenning (30:47)

Yeah, he.

Jacob Steinberg (30:47)

He is. They signed him as a midfielder and he's been pushed up there and he's not. He's not like. He's not running in behind at any point. He's not stretching defenses, but he is really good in the air and he's got. He's got the knack for. For goals as well. He's very good when the. When the ball comes into the box. And he's clever. He is clever. You know, he. He is. It wasn't just the. It wasn't just the goal last night. I should say that obviously he. He got the assist for Saka for the second goal as well. The through ball for Saka. Again, this is one of the things for Arsenal the last season that he wouldn't have been able to. Last season they probably would have dropped points in this game because they wouldn't have had the options to withstand some of the injuries that they've got this season. They're able to get through that much, much easier than in the past. You know, Madaweke started on the right for Saka, so is able to manage those minutes before the, before the Villa game. Ben White came in for timber who had to come on because of mascara going off. But, but the squad is just so deep and you know, it's pretty nice when you're able to just leave Eze on the bench for, for an hour because you've brought in Odegaard. Yeah, this is probably again one of the things that's going to set them apart from, from the others.

Max Rushden (32:03)

I guess the only thing Wilson is there was a possible injury to Declan Rice and okay look, Marino dropped into midfield, Yokos went up front and they were fine in this game. But if there is one player that you sort of think they can't do without, it maybe is Declan Rice. If that is a big a longer term injury.

Jonathan Wilson (32:18)

Yeah, I mean I, I think he and Gabrielle probably are the two you'd say are very hard to replace. As it turns out, they played perfectly well without Gabrielle and the squad has been deep enough to cover for that. Rice I think does give them something different. I mean in terms of his, his energy and his engine as much as anything. Marino can do a lot of the technical things, Rice can. But is he going to have that Sam to keep going, you know, covering in front of the back four, also occasionally breaking the box, creating a threat. His dead ball delivery is a huge thing as well that you know they will miss. I think he probably is the best liver of a dead ball in the Premier League at the moment. So I think Arsenal have significantly the deepest and most coherent squad in the Premier League. But Rice is probably the one where you know that, that, that could hurt them if, if it is a longer term injury.

Max Rushden (33:04)

Yeah. Worth saying that. I think David Raya, to give him credit or to give him his some flowers or whatever the kids say. He, he, he. I think he got a fingertip to that shard ahead and it's an absolutely brilliant save. But apart from that, you're right, Brentford didn't create a whole lot. Anyway, that'll do for part two, Part three. We'll begin at Molyneux.

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Max Rushden (34:06)

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Ted says, when do we start having the conversations about wolves and 0708 Derby County. I can't remember who we're doing about Southampton last year, Barry. Did they celebrate when they got over 11 points? 2 points after 14 games and that isn't, that isn't enough points?

Barry Glendenning (34:22)

Barry No, I think there is precedent of a team staying up with six points on Boxing Day. Sheffield United. That might have been when there was 22 teams of the Premier League. So I can't see this Wolves side doing that. But you never know. I thought Wolves played well against Villa on Sunday even though they lost, but they were dismal in this game against Forest. First half performance was just hopeless. Forest had a goal ruled out. Igor Jesus, completely unmarked, headed home at a corner. But Dan and Doi was apparently impeding Sam Johnson's view. So the goal was ruled out but Igor Jesus went on to score the winner with a header. Omari Hutchinson cross. He's playing well for Forest at the moment. Now he's getting more time on the pitch. But was John Arius, who I think has been a very disappointing signing for them. He looked really good during the club World cup even though I can't remember who he was playing for. But he was one of the standout players. He's been massive disappointment for Wolves, but this was, yeah, after a very promising performance at the weekend, albeit in defeat, this was back to square one.

Max Rushden (35:44)

I think Wilson, I mean should they be planning for the championship already? And how different is planning for the championship to carrying on playing the Premier League games as if you're trying to stay in the Premier League?

Jonathan Wilson (35:55)

I don't know. What, what would planning for the championship look like? Yeah, to play more front foot football because they're probably going to have to try and win more games next season. I think they just got to, I mean it's, it's, it's short term targets, isn't it? So the first target is can we win a game? The second thing is can we win either in a way or a home game, depending where the first one is then can we get more than 11 points?

Max Rushden (36:19)

This is quite nice. This is quite nice sort of bite s approach to football seems quite a nice way to do it, you know, simplified football.

Jonathan Wilson (36:27)

But I think the honest truth is this season, the vast. I think maybe Burnley don't quite fit into this, but 17 or 18 teams are much of a muchness. Arsenal much better than everybody else and Wolves are much worse than everything else. And if you're Wolves, that's quite a bad place to be. So I mean the problem with bringing Rob Edwards now.

Jonathan Wilson (36:48)

If you think back to. I'm sure there's better examples, but Jan Sievert at Huddersfield, I admit this is not the most high profile example. They bring him in. Well, I think it was 10 games at the end of that season.

Max Rushden (36:58)

Could you just give all the listeners, just give all the listeners just a moment to remember Jan Sievert and Huddersfield being in the Premier League just to get on board with the guy. Okay, right, here we are. Did he come in for David Wagner or who did he come in for?

Jonathan Wilson (37:10)

I think that's right, yeah. And the idea was, oh yeah, he'll have 10 games before the end of a season and then he'll know the squad ready for the start of next season. And all that happened was, yeah, they lost the vast majority of those 10 games. Everybody thought, who is this idiot? He can't coach us, your confidence is low, belief in him's disappeared and he ends up being sacked pretty quickly the following season. So that's the danger for Rob Edwards that even if there has been in his talk to Wolves, even if there has been some talk of, yeah, we're not really expecting miracles here. Just get your feet under the table, work out what you need in the summer and then you can need our promotion charge. It often doesn't really work like that. I mean actually it did used to work like that in I mean this cropped up the weekend that Billy Bonds was manager West Ham when they were relegated, stayed took him to promotion the following season. So it can work. But early 90s maybe it's a different world to now. So yeah, if Rob Edwards is reason was as he said for going to Wolves, that he supports him and he couldn't not try and save them in their hour of need, then it may be he's taking them over exactly the wrong time for him to actually have a positive experience there.

Barry Glendenning (38:18)

It could be argued that Wolves tend to start planning for the championship every summer by selling their best players to other teams.

Max Rushden (38:27)

But I was sort of Thinking, you know, would you, would you go? Okay, these guys are gonna leave next season. So do we need to keep playing X? I don't know.

Max Rushden (38:38)

Somebody who's good for Wolves. I can't think of anyone but, you know, Joe Gomez.

Jonathan Wilson (38:41)

Maybe the problem then is it makes it much harder to sell if it's like, well, this guy couldn't even get in the team to finish the season with three points. Yeah, yeah. That makes, yeah, you got to keep playing them unless they've got some clause where it suddenly triggers some big bonus payment if they play 30 games or something. But you know, I, I, I think try and get some points. I don't think it's more complicated than that at the moment. Well, that seems pretty complicated for them to be fair.

Max Rushden (39:07)

Maybe one of their players has a huge bonus if they get one win and this is what they've been trying to avoid all season. But maybe there is no difference to try. Understand the premier planning for the championship. I don't know. Crystal palace won one nil at Burnley. What does he make of this buzz?

Barry Glendenning (39:20)

Not much really. I think his second last on Match of the Day. Their goal came from Daniel Munoz. Header across the face of goal into the bottom corner from a very good mark Gay cross. Not a huge amount else to talk about. Jayden Anthony had a couple of chances. Jakob Bryn Larson smashed a shot off the bar for Burnley. After the game. Scott Parker sort of said, yeah, we're, we're doing okay. I'm happy enough with the performance, but we really need to start turning these performances into points. And he's right, Burnley are quite bad. They need to start getting some points on the board.

Max Rushden (40:04)

Yeah. Should give Dean Henderson some credit. I think he made a bit like Ryus pushing Charters head onto the bar. I think he pushed that Bryn Larson shot onto the bar as well. That was a very good save.

Barry Glendenning (40:13)

Oh, and, and Armando Brosia Burley slung a ball into the box quite late in the game and Henderson came for it. Missed it. It hit Armando Bros but back and looked like it was going to go in but Chris Williams was was able to hack it off the line.

Max Rushden (40:31)

He just needs one to go in off his back, doesn't he?

Barry Glendenning (40:33)

Yeah, but he can't even get one going off his back.

Jacob Steinberg (40:36)

It's one of your backside though, isn't it?

Max Rushden (40:38)

So it is, yes. But you know it's close enough.

Jacob Steinberg (40:40)

If it comes off your back, maybe it's not going to go in.

Jonathan Wilson (40:43)

Right.

Max Rushden (40:43)

If it comes off your back or your side, it's not good enough. But if it's off the whole backside, that's what bros should have done.

Jonathan Wilson (40:49)

Sonnen's girl last night went off Van Dyke's backside.

Max Rushden (40:52)

It did go off Van Dyke's backside. Yeah. That's what. That's not what he needed, was it? It's just that. And now he'll hit form West Hammer in the bottom three. Now Jacob, go to Old Trafford tonight. How are you feeling about all things London Stadium?

Jacob Steinberg (41:07)

Just that just feels like goading like that intro.

Max Rushden (41:10)

It was quite an open question. It was quite an open question. I think it was all facts. You know. I wasn't going like no, no, no, no. I was like, I'm not. I'm not surprised. That's where you are. But how are you feeling?

Jacob Steinberg (41:21)

I'm not surprised either. I think they're surprised that Leeds probably it's a surprise that Leeds won and put them there because people were expecting Chelsea to do West Ham a favor, but that did not happen. They were really poor and disappointing against Liverpool on. On Sunday. Didn't do any of the things that you need to do to beat or trouble this. This Liverpool team. And obviously tonight they're without Paqueta after that red card against. Against Liverpool. So the attacking options are even more diminished. Somerville's out and has been out for a lot of his time since joining West Ham. So once again, not for the first time, most of the onus is on Jarrod Bowen to do something for them. It's been. It's been okay under Nuno at certain points. You know, the Newcastle game was very good performance, but they beat Burnley without actually really playing that well. And the. The. The attacking options are so limited that they're kind of having to just steal goals from any means really. And if that doesn't happen then. Then it's putting a lot of pressure on a really poor defense. He brought in maverick panels for Kilman against. Against Liverpool. Kilman as really not been playing well. 40 million very badly spent. But Mavropanos is 20 million very badly spent. Was at fault for that goal the other day. Maybe they can bring in Igor. Igor Julio who. Who's okay. It's. They've got some real problems and they need to try and fix it somehow in January. Otherwise they're in real danger. They'll probably beat my United now that you've, you know, goaded me.

Max Rushden (43:05)

Apologies for the goading, but it's nice to see so many Igors. Is that three Igors in the premiere? There was a time when I was a child where Igor was just A monster in a Scooby Doo, you know, cartoon. Now they are representing the Premier League. Barry, which of the Premier League fixtures takes your eye?

Barry Glendenning (43:20)

Yes, several of them catch my eye. Max.

Max Rushden (43:26)

Do you want to give me any more info?

Barry Glendenning (43:27)

All 10 of them. I've seen them. They caught my eye.

Barry Glendenning (43:32)

I'm personally looking forward to Manchester City's game against Sunderland. I guess Arsenal Villa at Villa park will is a big one. Can Arsenal halt the juggernaut that is Aston Villa? And.

Barry Glendenning (43:49)

They'Re probably the. The two most interesting for me anyway.

Max Rushden (43:54)

It'd be interesting to see if Keith Andrews does one over Thomas Frank as Brentford go spurs as well, I see.

Barry Glendenning (43:58)

I think, well, the Brentford spurs one is actually interesting because Brentford are terrible away from home and spurs are terrible at home. So something has to give.

Max Rushden (44:09)

Yes. Although Fulham were terrible away from home until last Saturday. So I. We can all see the direction that that is traveling in. Anything you pointed out to you, Wilson? Were you off anywhere?

Jonathan Wilson (44:21)

I'm up to Leeds for Leeds, Liverpool for the 5:30 kickoff on Saturday. Which you know, I think is interesting for a number of reasons. I mean Liverpool's ongoing struggles. Leeds suddenly playing two up front. Which you know, I think in this sort of retro 80s season that we're having going teams, going to two up front seems logical. So quite keen to see how that works. And I haven't been to Holland Road for years. I can't even remember last time I was there. So yeah, very much looking forward to that.

Barry Glendenning (44:48)

I mean, given how shaky Virgil and Ibrahima Kanate are. And the number that the two leads for Eikers did on their Chelsea defense.

Max Rushden (44:59)

Yeah, that's a good point.

Barry Glendenning (45:00)

I think they could pose Liverpool some serious problems.

Max Rushden (45:03)

Finally, Dominic says, I think Barney was confused about the location of Selhurst Park. Crystal palace station is about 45 minutes walk. Selhurst, Thornton Heath and Norwood Junction all within about 10 minutes. Jacob, you're nodding.

Jacob Steinberg (45:15)

Yeah. Did Barney go to Crystal Palace Station?

Max Rushden (45:17)

Well, not only did he go there, but he was recommending everybody go there as the way to get to Selhurst Park. And you know, we just listened because you know, Barney sounds so clever. You just have to agree with what he was telling you. So he's. He's changed the commuting habits of all of South London.

Jonathan Wilson (45:32)

When I go there, I. I go to East Croydon and just walk from East Croydon, which is. Is probably about a 40 minute walk. It's actually quite a pleasant walk. And it means the train's not as busy and you get your steps in and you can, you can listen to. To a podcast if you want.

Barry Glendenning (45:45)

Do you listen to football podcasts?

Jonathan Wilson (45:48)

Yeah, because I want to. I mean, sometimes listen to myself because I regard myself as being the most sensible voice on the game. But it's also useful to learn from your o. See how you can improve. But no, of course, listen to other people. I want to, you know, I want people to tell me what to think. I don't have ideas myself anymore. I'm 49.

Max Rushden (46:04)

I got the impression that you were listening to sort of slightly sordid, saucy podcasts, Wilson, and I didn't have it. I didn't have you down for that. Anyway, thanks to everyone that listens to this one, we've been sent lots of Spotify wrapped roundups. Current high scorer Jamie Darcy, who's listened to us for ten and a half thousand minutes this year, which seems a lot, but if you can beat it, do let us know. You can see us on YouTube as well if you'd like to see our faces. But that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jacob.

Jacob Steinberg (46:32)

Thank you.

Max Rushden (46:32)

Thanks, Wilson.

Jonathan Wilson (46:33)

I'd never done one of these. I never. I never had a Spotify plus membership till this year. You know, you know, it tells you your music age. Do you want to have a guess what my music age is? And I. Barry can. Barry can have a clue. Is that the only thing I've listened to is the playlist was at my wedding. So if you can remember that, Barry, you've got a chance of guessing this.

Barry Glendenning (46:55)

I. I can't remember the playlist at your wedding. Can't remember who was DJing, but I know it was a friend of yours.

Jonathan Wilson (47:03)

Yeah, the Peter Frankapon, the historian.

Barry Glendenning (47:07)

Okay.

Jonathan Wilson (47:08)

But he claims to DJ'd for Bono.

Max Rushden (47:10)

So why wouldn't you get Simon Sharma? Who's your favorite historian dj? Anyway, what is your. What is your musical age According to Spotify, Wilson? 57, 76.

Max Rushden (47:23)

Just listen to Vera Lynn on loop. Play it again, Vera.

Jonathan Wilson (47:26)

Any.

Max Rushden (47:27)

I'll diva today. We'll be back.

Barry Glendenning (47:28)

Sorry, just one, one more quick thing, Max. I forgot to mention yesterday when I was talking about the Football Sports association awards that a Guardian Women's Football Weekly also won.

Max Rushden (47:41)

Well done to them.

Barry Glendenning (47:42)

And I got to meet Lucy Ward in real life.

Max Rushden (47:47)

Have you never met before?

Barry Glendenning (47:48)

I never met Lucy Ward in real life before. And.

Barry Glendenning (47:53)

That led to a personal life highlight, which was I got to meet Neil Redfern.

Max Rushden (47:59)

Oh, huge.

Barry Glendenning (48:01)

Yeah, he's a lovely man.

Max Rushden (48:04)

Never meet your heroes. But you know, you know, good for you. I'm making.

Barry Glendenning (48:07)

Neil, lovely man. Very strong handshake as.

Max Rushden (48:10)

Yeah, of course, yeah. A good Barnsley handshake. Anyway, that will do. Thanks, everyone. If you're still. And no one is still listening by now but you, if you've ever met Neil Redfern and shaken his hand, let us know. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard. Back on Monday.

Barry Glendenning (48:30)

This is the Guardian.