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Football Weekly
Dan Burn and the pantheon of great headers, Fifa’s peace prize and more: Football Weekly Extra
00:51:57
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Lars Sivertsen and Mark Langdon as Dan Burn scores a beautiful header in Newcastle’s win over Athletic Club and Chelsea drop points away at Qarabag
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- [00:00]
Max Rushden
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
Mark Langdon
Tonight's meal, Tilapia surprise with boiled cabbage. Begin cooking steps 1 through 50 now.
- [00:16]
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- [00:50]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. A fun night in the Champions League. Let's start with one of the greatest headers since rude Hullitt 88 or even B Glendenning vs Beaver 86. Dan Byrne with Predator boots for a forehead. Curling it in from just inside the box to help Newcastle to victory. Manchester City are starting to look ominous. Phil Foden with two perfect Phil Foden finishes and Jeremy Docu's brilliant setting up. Erling Haaland. Chelsea are held in Azerbaijan. Karabagh aren't quite the carrier bags everyone thinks they are, but still a disappointing result for a side who are impossible to work out. Game of the night in Bruges. Three all with Barcelona. Victor Osterman gets a hat trick with the help of the handball or. Why is no one listening to me? We'll look ahead to the Premier League this weekend. Man City. Liverpool stands out well while Spurs Man United has crisis Klaxon for someone written all over it. Just like last season and Champions elect Arsenal go to the Stadium of light. There's FIFA's I can't believe it's not the Nobel Peace Prize. Peace Prize. Your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Welcome.
- [01:48]
Barry Glendenning
Hi, Max.
- [01:48]
Max Rushden
From the Racing Post, Mark Langdon. Hello.
- [01:50]
Mark Langdon
Hi, Max.
- [01:51]
Max Rushden
And good morning, Lars Ivitson.
- [01:53]
Lars Ivitson
Hi, Max.
- [01:54]
Max Rushden
Bjorn says Dan Byrne best headed goal this year. This decade. Stu, please. Can we have a minimum 60 second expert analysis from Barry on Dan Burns header. How does that sit in the pantheon of exquisite headed goals? Van Persie, Ronaldo, Aspra, Barry. I mean, what. It was just such a. The game wasn't fascinating. It was hard to know which was the most interesting game to start with, Barry. But just the moment it left his head. How is that going to. How do you curl the ball with your head?
- [02:20]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, it was a really wonderful head. A really well worked free kick. Kieran Trippier swung it towards the far post, well into space. It wasn't particularly near the fire post. Volta Mata and somebody else blocked the defenders while Dan Burn ran around the side. And he. I think he slightly took the gloss off what was a truly excellent finish by just saying afterwards he decided to head it as hard as he could because he it. It. He did curl it in. It was. I. I don't know. I can never rem if it's fade or draw that golfers use, but that.
- [02:59]
Lars Ivitson
Would have been a draw there, Barry.
- [03:00]
Barry Glendenning
A draw. Okay. Wonderful, wonderful finish. Then you could see him when he was taken off, showing the other subs how he'd done it, miming his header. It was tremendous. Altogether. There's a lot not to like about Newcastle, but I think Dan Burn is one of the things it really is okay to love about Newcastle. He seems like a top bloke. He loves playing for them, his hometown club. And I think he couldn't believe his look when they came in for him when he was at Brighton. I think there was a time. Was it last season when he was habitually being left trailing in the wake of far more quick attackers. That we were writing him off and saying he was far too slow to play in this Newcastle team or maybe even to play Premier League football. But he's proved his detractors wrong. And yeah, that. That was a sensational goal. Really, really enjoyed it.
- [03:56]
Max Rushden
We were having this conversation yesterday, I think about Mickey Van der Ven. About goals that you just don'.
- [04:00]
Mark Langdon
See.
- [04:00]
Max Rushden
You just go, that does. How does that work? And I've. I've just watched that header so many times and I mean, I think it's the same question to bar. I just want to talk about it more. I can't think of a. I can't. I'm trying to think of other headers that are like that. Maybe the camera angle is just perfect.
- [04:15]
Barry Glendenning
He's done it before.
- [04:16]
Max Rushden
Oh, in the cup final.
- [04:17]
Barry Glendenning
Car final.
- [04:18]
Max Rushden
But no, not quite as good, I think.
- [04:20]
Mark Langdon
Mark.
- [04:20]
Max Rushden
I'm not sure this. This feels better than that one.
- [04:22]
Mark Langdon
This was a better header. I think Van Persie's still, I would say my favorite one just because it was so unusual. But I think just to build on that, the Dan Byrne loving. I mean this is somebody that has had to go right the way down the leagues to come back up again. And you can see what it actually does mean to him to play for Newcastle to score a goal in a cup final as well for them. I always feel like he's vulnerable when he plays left back. Just always feel, go on the winger, get at him. And you'll beat him and some have. I think he had a tricky game against Arsenal earlier on this season, but he actually does the job fairly well and he's got himself into the. The England squad. And with set pieces becoming increasingly important in both boxes, to have somebody that strong in the air, so tall, so powerful, I think it helps you, A, to defend them, but B, also to score goals as well. So, yeah, there's nothing. A huge amount to love, I think, about sort of the. The Champions League as a whole, really, because it is just money grabbing. But actually to see Dan Byrne reveling in the atmosphere of a big Champions League night, I think that is something to keep us warm through these winter months.
- [05:40]
Lars Ivitson
I'm going to correct myself because I just realized Dan Byrne is a lefty, isn't it? So bending it to the left so that would be a fade. I was thinking that, but then again, when you're doing it with your head, like it becomes. But this is me being biased towards. Because I'm righty in the pantheon of great headers. I feel like they're being bringing the Scandi Bia have to mention Henry Claresson against Bulgaria in Euro 2004. But fine, let's just put that in there. It should occur to me that I don't buy this, that he said, I just headed as hard as he can. I just think he wants to, like, dial the expectations down a bit. I think people saw him do that and then they think, whoa, what can he do next? You want to. Would you also start saying, people who can do that with their feet? We will always say, oh, he's got a cultured left foot and he's got a one. Can we just stay now? Does Dan Byrne have a cultured head? Is that. Is that what you would. And I. I'm. Every single, every single header from now on, I'm going to be watching closely. Like, is he actually. Is this. Is he communicating something with this? I was just going to. Yes. And what Mark said about how great it is to have an extra tall guy on the, on the pitch because, yeah, the idea that he seemed to be too slow to do this, not only is he playing regularly, but he's playing regularly, like left back, where typically you need speedy boys and. And having a fullback who's that big and strong means you still have two big center halves and it just gives. Gives you like extra, extra aerial power here. It's great.
- [06:59]
Max Rushden
Yeah. And actually, I mean, it was a bit like we were talking about, you know, the art of striking a football with Matty Cash with Channeloglu's corner to Zielinski and his finish. But that the art of heading it is actually. It's not really discussed very much like how actually you know there is a skill to doing this. You know, whether you're cushioning a header or you're trying to put one with power or put it back from where the keepers come from or whatever. And so quite nice to have that opportunity to talk about one art of the game. I mean I don't know if anyone had any thoughts beyond not just does.
- [07:27]
Lars Ivitson
This mean we were going to have like heading clinics with Dan Byrne? Is that going to be the new sort of social media content we could.
- [07:34]
Max Rushden
Have or a heading coach like next to the set, Pete's coach. Just a heading comes on for flick on.
- [07:39]
Lars Ivitson
So yeah, we'll teach them how to like there's probably something you do with your neck muscles and the timing to get the right swaggers on it.
- [07:45]
Max Rushden
Yeah, possibly. Mark, did you have any thoughts beyond this moment on this game?
- [07:50]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I think it was important for Newcastle to win. They've not got an easy run in. So you know, if you want to finish in the top eight, you definitely needed to win this game. Just wanted to speak about Athletic and actually full respect for Dan Byrne who didn't call them Athletic Bilbao and called them Athletic Club in his post match interview. So he sort of. I felt that they were like they've got a lot of injuries at the moment to key players and it's really harming their chances and it's a shame because they fought so hard to get into the Champions League but particularly with Williams being out at the moment, like the team just lacked a bit of stardust. But it was an important win for Newcastle because like if you look at the league table at the moment, if you finish outside the top eight, it looks like it's going to be very competitive in that playoff round again. So there will be a desperate fight for those last couple of spots I would say.
- [08:47]
Barry Glendenning
I'd say the reason Denver knew the proper name to address Athletic Club by is because Newcastle and they have this sort of special relationship. A A unique bond. I keep hearing it called that goes back TO I think 1994 when they played each other in the UEFA Cup. And apparently it's down to the fact that some Athletic Club fan got left behind in Newcastle and a kindly family of Geordies took him in and gave him a bed for the night and fed him and watered him. And when Athletic fans heard about this at the away Leg Athletic went through over the two legs. But the Athletic fans invaded the pitch and instead of being violent, they applauded the traveling Newcastle fans. And this has forged this unique bond between the two clubs. I think Rob Lee's testimonial. It was Athletic Club who were invited to play in it. And it goes to show how rancorous an environment football can be that such a basic act of human kindness can result in such a strong relationship between two clubs.
- [10:00]
Lars Ivitson
That's a. That's a very lovely and eloquent explanation, Barry, and something I didn't know. I just think he knows his Athletic Club because he has a cultured head.
- [10:08]
Max Rushden
Well, that is true, of course. Let's go to Carabag, to Chelsea too. Chelsea have not won away in the champions league since 2022 and they continue to be an odd team, I guess. Lars, if you could some context on what getting a point away at Carabag is, because I think instantly you think this is an embarrassment. But that actually haven't been bad, have they? They've beaten Benfica and Copenhagen so far.
- [10:29]
Barry Glendenning
Karabak.
- [10:30]
Lars Ivitson
Yeah, I'm still working them out a little bit because they had. They had this brilliant comeback in Lisbon against Benfica where, where they were down and they turned the game around and that essentially got Bruner Large fired from, from the job there. And then they followed that up by beating FC Copenhagen at, at. At home in a game that was pretty even, really. But that's two wins in the Champions League League phase for a team from Azabajan, which is. Which is great, but it also doesn't give us a lot of definitive proof of how good they really are. It means they're not like, atrocious. Clearly they can hold their own. But I'm still kind of working out how good they actually are. But certainly this was impressive in the sense that Chelsea had more possession, had more shots, but they were, they were competitive and they play with a good intensity. I mean, the coach has been there since 2008, which, which is not something that you typically see in modern football. And they are a team that has. I mean, they're owned by one of the bigger sort of holding companies in Azerbaijan, so there's a little bit of power behind them. But when we're talking about sort of teams from outside the European football mainstream, they're definitely minnows. They're not like high powered minnows like Shakhtar were back in the day, for instance. And they've been very, very impressive in what they've done in the, in the group so far, Mark, they made.
- [11:47]
Max Rushden
Chelsea made seven changes to the team that beat spurs at the weekend. Presume you were at that game. They've made 85 changes to their starting elevens this season in all competitions, the most of any Premier League sides. I mean, it feels like difficult number to comprehend if that's a ludicrous number of changes or how many changes you would make. And there's obviously a balance between you've got to play all these games, you've got a big squad, but also it's quite hard to find rhythm, I guess, which makes Chelsea, you know, routinely difficult to kind of understand they are, you.
- [12:14]
Mark Langdon
Know, it's mainly a young team as well. So I think that will bring about inconsistencies the team selection. I think it's right to, to. To rotate. As much as Maresca is doing this, you got to remember they reached the. Well, they won the club World cup, so their preseason was not usual. And I think we're still trying to work out exactly what that means. PSG have picking up a lot of injuries at the moment themselves and they reached the final might just be pure coincidence. So I think that Maresca does have to manage that and he's got a big squad. So if he doesn't rotate then players will get increasingly unhappy. So I think that he's doing the right thing in rotating. I thought this was a pretty poor performance from Chelsea though, particularly first half and you know, maybe slightly fortunate. They were only one goal behind, but they have got real star quality and Estebao is. It feels just like a matter of time before he actually becomes like a real superstar and he's well on the way to doing it. He's making important contribute contributions off the bench at the moment. Won't be long before he is really lighting up the Champions League and will become one of those players. I think that it's just undroppable for Chelsea.
- [13:34]
Max Rushden
Philippe saying French TV analysis of Carabag Chelsea at half time consists of a worst of compilation of Jarell hatto in the first 45 minutes. Seems harsh, doesn't it?
- [13:45]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, he. He had a shocker. It was. He was responsible for the first goal. He almost gave away a penalty before that was scored and then he did give away a penalty for the second. It was a night to forget for the young man.
- [14:00]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, but this, I suppose this is really. Yeah, he's come into Chelsea that maybe could have done with another year or two Ajax, but you know, Chelsea want to bring in these players and I think that just comes back to what we're saying earlier, really young players will make mistakes, older players make mistakes as well. But you just feel like, you know, that is part of the, the risk and reward of what Chelsea are trying to do.
- [14:28]
Lars Ivitson
I mean, I'm not making excuses for Chelsea here. They clearly have the resources and the manpower and all this to go and beat a team from Azerbaijan. But for people who are not aware, like it is a trek, like it is, it's a five hour flight with an added four hour time difference because they don't do daylight savings times. They would normally be three hours, but this time of year is four hours. So you're doing, when you're flying out there from the uk, they will have flown out in the middle of the day and arrived basically late, late at night. And it's like it does mess around with your having. Having spent a little bit of time in the sort of Caucasus region last couple of years. It does mess around with your body clock a little bit. And like it's not easy to just go there, reset, do something and go straight back again. It's a genuinely sort of, it's a bit of a throwback as an away trip really to, to a time where zipping around Europe wasn't quite as easy as it is now. And, and I think they make a really interesting addition to the Champions League for, for that reason. And of course it's going to be even worse for the guys who have to go to Kazakhstan, I guess.
- [15:23]
Mark Langdon
I think Chelsea tried to stay on sort of UK times, which would have brought about its own complications as well.
- [15:31]
Max Rushden
Yeah, make it sound like they had to get the Orient Express all the way to the Cauc there. You know, Enzo Maresca, you know, just throwing coal into the front of a steam train. Anyway, to the etihad. Man City 4, Dortmund 1. Barry Man City went extremely good in this game. Phil Foden's goals were beautiful. The setup from Doku for Harland was great. What did you make of it all?
- [15:52]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I pretty much agree with what you've said. I think Dortmund made it quite easy for them left lots of nice inviting spaces between their back five and the next line of defense for Phil Foden to to find pockets in. And it's through that that he scored. Unlike against Bournemouth, City's wingers were playing out wide, sort of hugging the touchline, making the pitch big. That made life difficult for Dortmund. And then of course, Erling Haaland was doing Erlinghal and things. I think that's 54 goals he scored now in 52 Champions League games for Salzburg, Dortmund and City. He. He scored his goal here and then there was one memorable occasion where he got a touch of the Mickey van de Vens and decided to just charge up field. I think by the time he got near the edge of the box, there was four or five Dortmund players around him trying to get the ball from him. So he just squared it to. I think it was Nico O'Reilly who was in acres of space because all these defenders have been drawn to Holland and he should have scored. But Coble saved his shot. He got it too close to the keeper. But it was very straightforward win for City, although Dortmund did have chances. Donna Roma had to make a couple of saves, but it was pretty easy. Night at the office.
- [17:26]
Max Rushden
Mark, where does. Where's Phil Foden on. What's his on the plane status right now, would you say?
- [17:31]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I'd say he's probably still more off the plane than on the plane, given the balance that I think the Tuchel wants in in the side. I was one of those that was championing the Phil Foden on the left. I'll sort of hold my hands up and say, you know, that was, you know, I feel like I wasn't the only one. But a lot of people jumped off that bus pretty quickly during the Euros. I still feel like the problem was more that they had a right back playing at left back rather than. Phil Foden himself. Clearly had a very bad season last year, almost unexplainably bad, and the fitness didn't seem to be there. And it's hard to know if maybe there was a few off field stuff because it just wasn't the Phil Foden that we'd seen going into the Euros. And if somebody said to me, like, describe a classic Phil Foden goal, I think it would have been the two that he got against Dortmund, where he picks the ball up, really quick feet and it's powerful, but also placed really nicely as well. He's got that quick feet and he seems to be enjoying football again and he definitely wasn't doing that last season. I think he does want to play centrally and he made that fairly clear. And he does do his best work in that position. But in terms of like the England question, there's a lot of players that do play in that exact same role. And the emergence of, say, Anderson sort of further back as well, just added the complications there. I'd say Bellingham would be ahead of Foden. Still, if you were looking to play like a natural number 10, but.
- [19:10]
Max Rushden
And Rodgers, I guess at the moment.
- [19:12]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, and Rodgers is somebody that's got the trust and Cole Palmer's to come back. So there are a lot of. A lot of good players there. I just hope that Foden can just continue to enjoy his football for the rest of the. Of the season if he does that and plays to that level. Makes it difficult to leave out. But, yeah, there's a lot of good players in. In that position.
- [19:30]
Max Rushden
I love the way Lars. The way Jeremy Docker gets away from. I can't remember who it was for Harlan's goal is. It's such an extraordinary change of pace, isn't it?
- [19:40]
Lars Ivitson
So Doku is incredible. He has this. His ability one on one. I don't. I'm not sure there's anyone better in the world, to be honest, at just going past the mountain, just skinning someone one on one down the flank there. But he's never really like, even going back to the season. Before he joined Man City, he was a little in and out of the team. I got the numbers in front of me now. He started 13 and came off the bench 16. And it's been the same with CZ the two seasons he's been there. Started 18 the first season, came off the bench 11, then started 16, came off the bench 13. The point I'm making is that he's someone who's yet to, like, fully become as consistent as you want him to be. I do feel like he's kind of taking some steps this season again. He's being used off the bench a little bit more, but I feel like his actual output in terms of real end products has gotten a little better. 3 assists so far this year. And it is an incredible weapon City. It has like. He is such an unbelievable dribbler. Maybe he is someone who will also, in the way that Holland has benefited this season from City, sitting a little deeper, giving him more space to run into that sort of tactical tweak is something that probably benefits Doku a little bit as well.
- [20:40]
Max Rushden
Mark, just a question on Joe Bellingham at Dortmund and how is he. How's he fairing? Only two appearances so far?
- [20:47]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I. Yeah, not great. Well documented that maybe the Bellingham family are not happy with the minutes that he's been receiving in Dortmund and that I think caused more problems than sort of helped him. With reports of his dad getting involved in sort of trying to tell the club that he should be playing more often. I think it was a big step for him. This is a player that was playing in the championship because his name's Bellingham. Like, he just expected to be as good as Jude Bellingham straight away. And that's. That is just really unfair to. Just because they've got the same surname doesn't mean they're the same player, doesn't mean they've got the same potential, doesn't mean he will go on to play for Real Madrid. So I think there needs to be some patience. But he wouldn't be somebody that Dortmund, as those stats show that they're relying on really at the moment.
- [21:40]
Max Rushden
All right, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin in Bruges. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So, brilliant game of Bruce Clubruger 3, Barcelona 3. Mark, you watched this one. So open.
- [22:02]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, I mean, I had to take one for the team, didn't I, really? Barry and Lars had taken the really good game, so I said, I'll watch Barcelona. And yeah, I mean, it was. It was. Was the most fun. I don't know if you've heard, but Barcelona like to play with a high.
- [22:17]
Lars Ivitson
Line and it looks so ridiculous.
- [22:20]
Max Rushden
It does.
- [22:21]
Mark Langdon
It's.
- [22:21]
Max Rushden
Look, whenever they can see the goal, it looks so ridiculous. Clearly there are advantages to having a high line. We know that. But when they concede it, was it the second. The second goal? I think Forbes first goal and you're like, how is there just one defender? And also like a really tiny person. Not that that's necessarily relevant. How is that possible, Mark?
- [22:39]
Mark Langdon
Because when. When Bruges get the ball, all of the Barcelona players just run forward and so of, you know, you. I think it might have been the first goal where there's about sort of seven or eight Barcelona players in just the image, all near the halfway line because the defenders are rushing up and the midfielder not quite putting pressure on the ball. And like, it looks terrible when. When it goes wrong. You're absolutely right, Max. Of course, there are benefits to that. And had 23 shots in the game. And maybe they wouldn't have been able to have done that without putting pressure higher up the pitch. But defending like that doesn't feel like you'll win the Champions League. And it's caught them out in La Liga as well at times this season. Already lost the Clasico. I thought that Club Bruges were fantastic in this game because they didn't just sit back and accept their fate. They. They knew they would have to defend, but they poured forward when the opportunities arose. I thought forms. He got the two goals set up another One that pace just off the right flank caused Barcelona a lot of problems. And Vanaken in midfield, sort of attacking midfield position, like someone who's been at sort of Bruges just hanging around. And they bring in a lot of younger players. He's a fantastic footballer and really clever and intelligent and helped to dictate when they went forward what they were trying to do. So it was definitely the game of the night. Absolutely loved it. Barcelona could have won, they could have lost. At one stage, I did lose the score in my head because there was. There was a penalty that was given and then disallowed. There was a goal that was given and then disallowed. It becomes quite chaotic in those moments, but a fantastic game.
- [24:22]
Lars Ivitson
You main screened this. I had like revolving highlights from all the games on the second screen. And it was farcical because every time they went to this game felt like it was either a good Barcelona attack, and let's be fair, there were a lot of those as well. But every time it felt like they went to this and Bruges was doing something, it was same move. It was like a long ball into space, off and out wide to Forbes and just a pile of space everywhere and no Barcelona players anywhere near it. And like, deep into the second half, this was still happening. And was there any. You were watching it properly. Was there any sense that Hansi Flake was trying to adjust, was trying to adapt to trying to do something, or was he just going there, going, yeah, well, I guess this is what we are doing in this football game like this. I just think this is really extremely weird behavior by the coach.
- [25:01]
Mark Langdon
It was weird. And no, they didn't try to change. Even though Bruges had clearly worked out, like a way to just beat the offside trap. And it did involve Forbes just being quicker. And so as long as he timed his run, they were always able to get in. And it was quite. It was an easy out ball. They didn't have to play amazing football to just create chances. But you are also right, Lars, that some of Barcelona's attacking play, Lamina Mao in the second half particularly, was devastating. And his goal, the combination play with Olmo was. That was unbelievable as well.
- [25:35]
Max Rushden
Yeah, that was joyous, Barry, wasn't it?
- [25:37]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. He picked up the ball, skipped past two defenders to the edge of the area, played a light and fast 1, 2. I thought it was Lopez or Alma, one or the other, received a return pass and then just with the outside of his left boot, sort of shunted it into the bottom Corner. It was beautiful. Goal. I'm curious to know Mark or anyone, what did you make of the club? Bruga winner in inverter commas. That was disallowed by Anthony, our own Anthony Taylor. I thought it was a bit harsh.
- [26:11]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I thought it was harsh, but I think it might be a foul.
- [26:14]
Mark Langdon
I. I agree. I agree with Max. I. I think that. I think Chesney knows that he has messed up and then is able to kind of make the foul almost. Normally it's the other way around. Normally. Normally the attacker makes contact with the goalkeeper to win a penalty. It was sort of reverse of that really, where Chesney's Cruyff turn goes wrong and then he. I think he panics, realizes that he's in big trouble and manages to collide with the attacking player. Yeah, I. I thought that summed up Barcelona really, though sloppy. They were my tip to win Champions League at the start, but I'm going off that more with every match, really.
- [26:57]
Max Rushden
Benfica, Neil Leverkusen one. I mean, Benfica have naught points in their campaign, which isn't very many points.
- [27:04]
Lars Ivitson
Lars, arguably the lowest number of points they could have had at this point.
- [27:09]
Max Rushden
They should have won this game five nil, I think.
- [27:11]
Lars Ivitson
Yeah. The Greek forward Pavilius, who's. Who's been otherwise pretty sharp this season, has had some. Had some good games. He's got. Just look that up now. And he's got eight games and nine domestically. And you know, not. Not a bad striker, but he had a couple of really bad misses in this one, which particularly insulted me because it would have been a great. By the Norwegian. Frederik Os, who was playing right back for the occasion, played a very clever ball into him that he missed, which is upsetting for me. And yeah, things. Benfica. Jose Mourinho coming back has not completely revolutionized them. They've had a couple of good wins in the league recently, to be fair to Jose, but. But in the Champions League they have played Chelsea, Newcastle and Leverkusen, which I think is not an easy run of three games to have in the Champions League. But yeah, still no points.
- [27:57]
Max Rushden
A hat trick, Barry for Victor Osimhen. With a lot of help from the handball law. I mean, you can imagine. You can imagine what I was going through when I got to this game.
- [28:06]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I mean, my notes for this game are Ossimon, diving header from Leroy Sani cross. Good goal. Got in front of his man and got the crucial flick. And then naught to Osterman. Penalty for a stupid handball and not three. Another stupid Handball. Another Ossimon penalty. The first one, the ball is crossed into the penalty area and the ball goes off the defender's leg and hits his hand. Now, I thought that couldn't be a handball if it comes off another part of your body and hits your hand, but I think there was two penalties given like that in various games last night, so I must be wrong. They were both daft. But again, we're talking about it and there's a much lower. Or is it higher, lower, higher. A different threshold for this in the Champions League than there is in the Premier League. And the one in the Premier League is already ridiculous. But this one is in the Champions League. It's even more ridiculous.
- [29:15]
Max Rushden
Somebody on the radio yesterday texted me to say, why don't they have a.
- [29:18]
Lars Ivitson
A.
- [29:18]
Max Rushden
A different penalty spot, like a bit further back for these stupid handballs? And I actually quite like that idea. You know, just, like, just make it more difficult. Have it on the edge of the box or something, because then you're going, okay, fair enough. It's a free shop. It's not. That's just adding something. I know. As soon as you suggest anything that changes the game, I was, oh, you can't do that. But honestly, one day there'll be an uprising. One day there will. But, like, until then, like, clearly, I. I don't know, people aren't listening to me. I can't be the one to lead it.
- [29:47]
Lars Ivitson
I'm in favor of the indirect free kick solution because I get that, like, with the first one of these in particular, it feels unfair of the defender, but it is also a cross that's coming in that's going into a dangerous area and he does stop it with his hand. And I can kind of accept how that there needs to be some kind of consequence for that. But I also just think, essentially, giving the other team a goal is not a rational consequence to that. That doesn't make sense. So can we have some kind of.
- [30:12]
Max Rushden
I don't think there should be. I just think sometimes it needs your hands.
- [30:14]
Lars Ivitson
Can we not just. I just want more. More indirect free kicks in the box, because they're really funny, I think. I think that's a valid argument here.
- [30:21]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I agree with you. Or direct. Doesn't matter. Make it direct, but, like, have all the players in the way. That's fine. That is also entertaining.
- [30:28]
Barry Glendenning
It's probably worth noting also that on the back of this defeat, which, to be fair, was entirely deserved, Ajax, like Benfica, are also on no points after four games, which is not a lot of Points. They're an absolute mess.
- [30:44]
Lars Ivitson
I really don't know how Johnny Highting guy is still the coach of this team. I know it's. I mean they've, they've drawn five of the first 11 in the league. Like they're already eight points back in the league and they have zero points in the Champions League. I mean he obviously he's young. He's young coach. He's still figuring things out but I'd really be very surprised if he's still there by, by January ten Hog might go back. That might be an option, wouldn't it? I mean I kind of feel like he needs to take some time out of the game and chill and meditate and do some television work or something because the Leverkusen thing was so bad. That was such an embarrassing thing for him. But maybe going back to ix man.
- [31:20]
Max Rushden
Is TV work and meditation the same thing? I don't know.
- [31:23]
Lars Ivitson
No, but I think it's a way for coaches who have like if you've done such a big boo boo that no one takes you seriously anymore. TV work can be like a way of. If you turn up and you make some good points and you seem like a rational human being that can kind of be a way to get yourself back in the frame.
- [31:37]
Max Rushden
Inter 1 again. They beat Kyrat 2 1. Not a classic but sort of Inter again, you know, doing the business without anyone suggesting, you know they'll be good but they are one of three teams with 100 record.
- [31:50]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, whenever I watch them they're not very good but they are getting wins at the moment. Yeah, they're doing probably better than I expected domestically as well. I was, I was anticipating quite a big drop off this season. I'm not sure that they are playing to the same standards but they keep winning in the Champions League. Lautaro put them in front but Kairo equalized relatively early in the second half. Arad got the goal. I mean it was a night of good headers because it was a, it was a really nice header from him and also Schicks header would ordinarily, you know, maybe been spoken about more but because of Dan Burns heroics it doesn't. But then it was Carlos Augusto that got into the win. It was a really strong finish from the edge of the box. Yeah nice car again that you would again into should win. They did win. Deserved to win but wasn't massively pretty.
- [32:40]
Max Rushden
Atalanta won 1 nil in Marseille Barry and actually good. It's almost the Wilson scenario at the end of this game. Wasn't there.
- [32:49]
Barry Glendenning
So Atalanta's Ederson handled the ball in his own box. Actually, this is one that came off his foot first and then hit his hand. The ref didn't seem quite sure what to do, while all the Marseille players appealed for a penalty and more or less stopped playing. Atalanta broke up field and Lazar Sarnardzic, caught inside from the right, pinged an absolute beauty into the top corner from distance, and he celebrated scoring. Marseilles players and coaching staff went berserk because they thought they should have had a penalty. And the ref finally decided, I think, with the assistance of our, to let the goal stand. And Marseille were diddled out of what possibly might have been a penalty. I don't know anymore. But this game was also interesting because Adamola Lookman, who seems to have a quite fractious relationship with Atlanta and I think wanted to leave during the summer when he was subbed off, he said something to our old friend Ivan Urich, former Southampton manager. And Urich sort of did a double take and grabbed him by the biceps and sort of quite aggressively. And then Luckman was ushered away by some of Yurich's assistants. And so there seems to be some sort of bad blood there or beef between the two of them. But yeah, an interesting game.
- [34:26]
Max Rushden
Do you think? Lookman said, did you manage Southampton last year?
- [34:32]
Lars Ivitson
Roberto de Zerbi did find a screen, a freeze frame of the handball incident on an iPad and tried to show it to the referee, which I think listeners might know that sort of disrespect towards referees, and that is a big hobby horse of mine. It's a big problem. But actually I find. And yeah, finding the evidence on the iPad of showing it is just on the right side of comedy for me to actually be. Yeah, that's fine. It did immediately get a yellow card, so good value all around. Can I just say, I have a feeling that the original Wilson scenario was even more intricate. And I think it's a loophole that has now been closed because there was one season, I believe it was only one season where the rules said any handball at all, intentional, natural, whatever, if it's the guy who scores the goal or the guy who is sitting, it has to be blown up. Now they've changed that now. Now I think it's only the goal scorer, but for one season it was for the assist as well, if you handle the ball before giving the assist. And that meant you might plausibly have a scenario where a defender, for instance, handles the ball completely accidentally, not punishable. Handball in his own box then boots it long and puts someone through.
- [35:41]
Max Rushden
Now that gives it to Ricky Van der Ven.
- [35:42]
Lars Ivitson
Well, yes. Oh, so that, yeah, that player would then be in a position where if he scores, it is a punishable handball and a penalty down the other end, but if he misses, it's fine. That was an actual mechanic in the rules for about one season before I think someone realized actually that's really stupid and we need to close that hole. But that was for about one season. That was a real thing.
- [36:04]
Max Rushden
Paphos beat Villarreal, the other one, one nil. First ever win in the Champions League mark for them.
- [36:08]
Mark Langdon
Yeah. And I mean, great one as well. A surprise one. You know, this is a teenager, obviously, Champions League debutant. They have got money, you know, so. But in relative terms, they haven't got as much as some of the teams that they're competing against and to. To beat. I think they're around third in La Liga at the moment, certainly having a very strong domestic campaign. It's an amazing result really for Paphos, who twice already in this competition have been down to 10 men and have managed to kind of pick up points and now a win as well. So, yeah, a team that I assumed would finish in kind of the. The bottom places, maybe sort of last or one from last, but are making a good fist of it at the moment. Terrible result for Villarreal. Not great night for the Lali or week really for the La Liga representatives.
- [37:00]
Max Rushden
All right, that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll do a Premier League preview.
- [37:09]
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- [38:02]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly and we want a Bit of time to talk about the peace prize. So let's rattle through the Premier League games. Man City Liverpool stands out. Mark, how do you see it?
- [38:12]
Mark Langdon
How do I say it? I don't know. I might go for the Barry answer there. Not sure. I think it is really, really tough Liverpool against Real Madrid. Probably best and most complete performance of the season. Had that midfield back working again, defended well, didn't give up many opportunities but I still don't know if I trust them in this game as much as I would have done sort of this time last year. And Erling Haaland, you've almost got like one goal up, haven't you? When he's sort of playing at the moment you just think well he'll score. And one player that haven't given much credit to for Man City I think is playing quite well at the moment is Nico Gonzalez who I think his fans had a tough time when he arrived first in, in the Premier League and he's not as good as as Rodri and it looked like that when he first came in. But I actually feel like this season when he's been in he's, he's played to a much sort of better level and the quality now with the City have got in midfield with Reinders and Foden and Nico Gonzalez, I think that can stand up maybe to what Liverpool have got as well. So I probably edge towards City just purely because of the Harland factor I would say.
- [39:28]
Lars Ivitson
I also just think a big part of playing Gonzalez there is that you're not playing Johnny Reinders there which I think we all agree should not be happening because then you're kind of nullifying his strengths and also asking him to do stuff he's not very good at.
- [39:38]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I'm be interesting to see. I presume Liverpool will play a very similar side to the side that did so well against Real Madrid leaders Arsenal. Barry go to the Stadium of Light, the inevitable granite jacka goal. I. I don't know, maybe I have a sneaky feeling that Sunderland might do something but. But maybe that's just sort of blind hope rather than anything else.
- [39:56]
Barry Glendenning
A lot of people seem to have that sneaky feeling. Look, if they want to beat Arsenal they have to score against them. That's not too many people doing that. They also have to not concede, which is also very difficult against that Arsenal side. And if they do concede then they have to score two to win. Could they sneak a draw or a jammy 1 nil win maybe. But usually if I expect Sunderland to Do something they good positive. They invariably don't. I think people are putting a lot of hope in Sunderland then and it might be misguided. I arson should beat them. But who. Who knows?
- [40:39]
Max Rushden
Yeah, actually I'm just trying to work out if this is the first trip that Arsenal have made to you know, one of those sort of cauldrons. And it's. It's a late kickoff, isn't it? You know, that kind of atmosphere and maybe I'm doing some other team a grave disservice of where they've already been.
- [40:54]
Mark Langdon
And we've been to Newcastle, we've been to Liverpool.
- [40:57]
Max Rushden
Okay, I'll take it back.
- [40:58]
Lars Ivitson
Do you want me to list the various clubs that you've dissed here? Now they've played away games for Arsenal this season. They've played away to United, away to Liverpool, away to Athletic Club, away to Port Vale, away to Newcastle, away to Fulham, away to Burnley and away to Slavia Prague. So all of those teams, no cauldrons according to Max Rushton.
- [41:16]
Barry Glendenning
They came out of the Fulham cauldron.
- [41:18]
Max Rushden
On stage, didn't they? Spurs. Man United. Quite a strong spurs contingent on the pod today. That Copenhagen result, even if it was just Copenhagen felt really needed after the Chelsea game.
- [41:29]
Mark Langdon
Yeah, the discontent in the stands after the Chelsea game. Not I would say at the result but at the performance and the way that they tried to go about that game. Much more enjoyable against Copenhagen. Copenhagen and not Chelsea. I mean let's just hope this game is every bit the clashing Europa League finally the worst game of football you could ever wish to see. I'm not. It's really hard to just work out sort of I would say even more where Manchester United are at the moment because like I know that they're. It feels like they're progressing but away from home and I still would. Would worry about just the amount of chances that they give up. You know, even against Forest there's a couple of goals and wasn't that long ago they were getting hammered by Brentford. So this would be an opportunity I think for Tottenham to show that they have got a creative side to them and there are able to open up Premier League teams. But they haven't done it too often this season. So I'm trying to stay patient with Thomas. Frank's only been 10 Premier League games.
- [42:37]
Max Rushden
It's not been long.
- [42:38]
Mark Langdon
It just feels like every. Every Premier League game is such an event and so much is spoken about everyone, you know, every single performance that. But I think we do just sort of lose just the reality of kind of the fact that he's only been there a couple of months and needs to be given time. But I agree that had the Copenhagen game not gone the way that it did, I think he would have been under big pressure.
- [43:04]
Barry Glendenning
The lads, it's Tottenham days, are well and truly behind Manchester United now because I think in the last seven meetings with spurs, they've lost five, drawn two. Which is not to say they won't rouse themselves to win this one. But I wouldn't be putting a huge amount of faith in this Manchester United revival just yet.
- [43:25]
Lars Ivitson
But I. Listen, I understand from Thomas Frank's perspective, I don't know for a fact that this is what's happened. But listen, he's taken over a team that was one of the worst defenses in the league last season, or they were actually the worst non relegated defense in the leagues last season. They were so bad defensively, it was ridiculous. Us. And I think it's understandable then to just start. We need to sort that out. Like we need to build some kind of more solid fundament at the back there. We need to stop losing the ball in dumb areas. We need to pass it a little safer. All of that is fine. But we're in November. You know, I'm kind of hoping for that they add something because currently they're kind of playing with the. The Palinia Bentankur thing in midfield. None of them really pass the ball forwards. So that leads you to a situation where you're kind of knocking it long a lot of the time and with no slank up there to kind of compete for those balls. A lot of them don't really go to anyone or. Or you're playing it wide early to. To Kudus and. And Ottoba. Kudus in particular is such a great individualist. Some of the things I said about Dooku earlier apply to Kudas as well. But there's a lot of like hopeful long balls to no one in particular and then balls out to Kudas. Maybe he can do something, but there's not. Like poor Chavi Simons has been bad. Like he hasn't come to grips with the Premier League yet, but he is also kind of drifting around in that area, just not getting the ball in any sort of. It was like listeners don't know this. We're doing video now and I've kind of. I've recently gotten rid of a lot of my hair because my sort of.
- [44:48]
Max Rushden
Forelock of the Civic and Ivy.
- [44:49]
Lars Ivitson
Yeah, the forelock had become like not so much a part of my hair. As just like a soul patch of the forehead. You know. It was just a sort of thing that was there on its own. Not connected to anything. That's been Xavi Simons in quite a lot of games for Tottenham this season. And it's a little bit his fault but it's not entirely his fault that none of the central midfielders passed the ball forward ever. So this kind of stuff, I feel experts, they do need to improve. And I don't think the alarm bells are ringing quite yet. But I have noticed that there are some bells on that wall over there. And another month of the team just not being able to pass the ball. And I think we'll. We'll see the alarm bells jiggle if nothing else. Yeah. Yeah.
- [45:26]
Max Rushden
I think Manchester United could. Could get something out of this game. Elsewhere. Chelsea Wolves Palace Brighton Villa Bournemouth Brentford, Newcastle Forest Leave Fulham Everton and West Ham Burnley. Any of those games?
- [45:38]
Barry Glendenning
Well it's. It's just a really good list of fixtures ahead of the international break. You know. Everton, Fulham. That's. That's a big game between two teams who aren't setting the world on fire. Same West Ham Burnley, Chelsea Wolves. Who's in charge of Wolves this week? I don't even know.
- [45:56]
Lars Ivitson
It could be anyone really.
- [45:58]
Max Rushden
Probably Steve Ball. It's gotta be Steve Bull in it.
- [46:00]
Barry Glendenning
And then obviously Palace Bright Brighton. That's those two sets of hands absolutely hate each other. Villa Bournemouth an interesting one near the top of the table. Newcastle are rather enigmatic. They're doing very well in the Champions League. Can't string a few results together in the Premier League. And they travel to London again to play Brentford who are up and down so that could go either way. And Forest Leeds is another interesting one down the near the bottom. So it's real. Yeah. Good. Good work by the fixture generator this week. And before we go into another inter.
- [46:42]
Lars Ivitson
Lull, Villa Bournemouth for me is the one I'm looking forward to out of the sort of the rest here because I. At the. At the risk of enraging the Villa faithful, I don't really buy the Aston Villa revival. I know they had this run of like five straight wins before they lost and four straight wins in the league and all this sort of stuff.
- [47:00]
Mark Langdon
Stuff.
- [47:00]
Lars Ivitson
But I think their underlying numbers are kind of a little stinky. Like for the Football Weekly bingo card. Like I've almost made an entire episode without mentioning xg. But. But, but here we go. Like only Burnley has created a lower XG number going forward so far this season. That seems bad that that's not. I don't like that they've won a couple of games now, but I don't think they've looked very good. And they've got Bournemouth coming, who I think are a more impressive outfit in, in a number of ways. And yeah, out big, big test for Villa to see if put some substance behind the Villa revival.
- [47:31]
Max Rushden
Terry says. I'd like to think that the Guardian Football Weekly community could get behind the campaign for Barry Glendenning to be the inaugural FIFA Peace Prize winner, to give it the gravitas it so richly deserves. Yes. If we don't win the FSA this year, we are coming for the FIFA Peace Prize. We have been nominated for Podcast of the Year at the Football Supporters Association. We didn't win it last year after many years of winning it. And the blame lies solely with you, the listeners.
- [47:56]
Barry Glendenning
Yes.
- [47:57]
Max Rushden
So come on, sort it out. It's not a given, it's not a done deal. Your vote actually matters. We all got complacent and this time, you know, to lose two in a row, Barry, would be. Would be shameful.
- [48:08]
Barry Glendenning
It would be shameful. It. We lost it last year due to a combination of our own listeners apathy and reluctance to just take 30 seconds out of their day to go and vote for us. And the football ramble, galvanizing their listenership to vote early and often and repeatedly. So, yeah, you can't let us down again. I got so complacent, I even had my speech ready when I went to the awards last year. And then the late. It was really late in the evening. I think it was the last award they give out. And I was actually hoping, hoping we wouldn't win because I was too drunk to give the speech.
- [48:53]
Max Rushden
I mean, it hasn't stopped you in the past, I would say. Barry. Lots of Football Weekly family are nominated. Lucy Ward, Seb Hutchinson, Guardi, Women's Football Weekly, Sophie Downey. Not the top 20. So vote for them and do vote for us. And clearly, if, if we go on a sort of shameless, you know, social media campaign to win, that's not embarrassing. If another podcast does it.
- [49:14]
Lars Ivitson
Yes.
- [49:14]
Max Rushden
Then it doesn't count.
- [49:15]
Barry Glendenning
It's pitiful. It's needy.
- [49:17]
Max Rushden
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now on the Peace Prize, more importantly, FIFA president Jenny Infantino announced at something called the American Business Forum, which I've looked into, doesn't seem like an event I'd necessarily want to be at. He's creating the FIFA Peace Prize to be awarded each year to quote individuals who help unite people in peace through unwavering commitment and special actions. The inaugural award will be presented on the 5th of December during the World cup draw at the Kennedy center for Performing Arts in Washington, dc. Donald Trump is expected to attend. You know, just make of that. You will if you're thinking about people who are in the market for a peace prize at the moment. A statement released ahead of his joint appearance with Trump at the American Business Forum Miami said, this is Janney. In an increasingly unsettled and divided world, it's fundamental to recognize the outstanding contribution of those, those who work hard to end conflicts and bring people together in a spirit of peace. He also said, jenny, as far as I understand, President Trump was elected in the United States of America and was quite clearly elected. When you're in such a great democracy as the United States, you should first of all respect the results of the election, which is interesting for a man who has stood unopposed to become president. FIFA in the last two votes, recommending somebody who supported an insurrection against a vote previously. You know, double thumbs up from Lars. I don't know, Barry, what there is to say about this Peace Prize.
- [50:40]
Barry Glendenning
I think when Gianni Infantino succeeded Set Blatter as leader of FIFA, I thought he's, he's just that ball guy who used to conduct the, the Champions League draw. He can't possibly be worse than Set Blatter and that I've got some things badly wrong on this podcast in the.
- [51:02]
Lars Ivitson
Past, but that's right up there.
- [51:05]
Barry Glendenning
That really is, he's, he's a shameless, toadying sycophant. And look, I don't, I don't know how he can sleep at night, but probably very well in a seven star hotel room with goose down pillows and, you know, 10 million thread cotton sheets. So good luck to him.
- [51:29]
Lars Ivitson
Just an embarrassing man who brings shame upon the sport himself and the world regularly every time he opens his mouth and says or does anything. It is what it is.
- [51:38]
Mark Langdon
There's no way to speak about Barry.
- [51:44]
Max Rushden
It's, you know, I was, I've written a column about this. Just thinking, not, not necessarily, you know, it's obviously this, this world of where, you know, we say we've got a peace prize, we'll give it to you and that's fine. And maybe, maybe Donald Trump won't win it.
- [51:56]
Barry Glendenning
I bet you 100 quid he will right here.
- [52:01]
Max Rushden
But it is odd that, you know, when you think about what football is, you know, it is just people running around kicking a ball that it's got to a stage where, you know, it is giving away peace prizes and, you know, Infantino's at the Gaza peace talks. And I don't know how you reconcile that with just.
- [52:18]
Barry Glendenning
But isn't it written into FIFA's statute book that they should not be involved in this kind of stuff? Like that's a cornerstone of their very existence?
- [52:30]
Lars Ivitson
I think the FIFA statues are entirely optional at this point. They're more like guidelines.
- [52:37]
Max Rushden
We finish with this from Josh. Josh App, who says, great podcast and all that. Just a minor nitpick. The bench at Scarborough Station is actually only the longest railway bench in the world. The longest bench in the world is located in Rendsburg in northern Germany on the banks of the Kiel canal, and at 575.75 meters is more than four times as long. Thank you very much for that correction. And you know, if anyone has any advances on long benches, we'll take. But that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Lars.
- [53:07]
Lars Ivitson
Thank you, Max.
- [53:08]
Max Rushden
Thanks, Mark.
- [53:08]
Mark Langdon
Thanks, Max.
- [53:09]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Barry.
- [53:10]
Lars Ivitson
Thank you.
- [53:10]
Max Rushden
Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back on Monday. This is the Guardian.