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Football Weekly
England disappoint and the Tudor era is over at Spurs – Football Weekly podcast
00:53:02
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Paul Watson and Jacob Steinberg to discuss a disappointing England performance against Uruguay and Igor Tudor leaving Spurs
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This is the Guardian.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there and hoping it all works out well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help you find options within your budget. Try it today@progressive.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states.
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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Fortunately, England's draw with Uruguay was three days ago now, so you've probably forgotten all about it. Sadly, we're going to bring it up again. A lot of nothing, a couple of bad fouls, paper airplanes. Ben White booed for coming on, booed for scoring, booed for giving away a penalty. I guess it's something Maguire did okay. And then Tuchel said he's fifth choice. Did anyone further their chances? Palmer, Ghana, Wharton, Maybe we'll look ahead to tonight's European playoffs. Paul Watson takes us further afield. Of course we welcome it. And then to spurs parting ways with Igor Tudor after quite a disastrous month. They want de Zerbi despite protests from a number of fan groups. And While Tudor lasted 44 days, it it's 44 years since Roy Hodgson was the Bristol City manager. And here we were thinking he was just meandering through the west country without a purpose. We'll do all that, discover we are just one step away from the Uruguayan ambassador, answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning.
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D
Welcome.
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Hi, Max.
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Hello. Jacob Steinberg.
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D
Hello.
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C
And from the excellent Sweeper podcast, Paul Watson. Hi, Paul.
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Hi, Max.
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Let's start then with England. That one all draw with Uruguay on Friday night. It does feel a while ago, Jacob, you were there. Have you forgotten all about it?
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D
So we were forgetting all about it while we were there. It was a very strange game. I mean, Buck Barney, who I was sitting next to during the game, was having a particularly bad time. He tweeted out that on balance, this was maybe the worst football match ever. I did sort of point out that maybe there have been some. Well, there have been some worse England games. Thinking back to Algeria at the 2010 World cup, maybe, and if you support a lower league side, maybe you've seen some worse quality football. But it was so flat because of this split squad that Tuchel named this oversized squad. We kind of ended up with Almost the England C team. You were sort of running through the starting 11 and thinking that there's at most maybe two or three who have a realistic chance of maybe starting the first game at the World Cup. So you're kind of trying to work out what exactly you're gaining here. I understand there are two elements to it. Partly it's the creation of the competition, trying to create that competitive element in the squad last week and push people to take a claim for that World cup squad. If you're going to be in that 26 man squad for this summer, and also giving the regulars who've had such a long season and are in Europe still a rest last week and build up some goodwill that way. And even that's kind of slightly backfired because of the withdrawals of Saka and Rice over the, over the weekend, which means that we're going to the game against Japan on Tuesday night. Not able to name two of the players who you would assume are absolute bankers to start the first game. And so Tuchel, who's had a pretty easy qualifying campaign, not really played anyone yet. And when they did play someone against Senegal, they lost, still will go into that World cup, probably not having started his first 11 against, against the top side yet. And that might not happen until the 11th of July when they, when they play potentially if everything runs to plan Brazil in, in the quarterfinals in Miami. So it might not be until then that they get a real sense of what this team is all about.
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C
Yeah. And actually Barney made a point, Barry, about the fact that, you know, he did this split squad and everyone went, that's not a bad idea. And then Barney said, well, no one, no one else has done it. You know, France haven't done a split squad or Spain haven't. And I guess we can't know if this split squad was a brilliant idea or not until of course, England are holding the World cup trophy 19 July or whatever it is.
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It's good to see none of you are getting ahead of yourselves in the traditional style. You've learned your lesson. Yeah, I was a bit bemused by this giant squad he picked and then having seen that, you know, all these Arsenal players have, have not withdrawn. It's not up to them to withdraw. It's not up to Michael Arteta to withdraw them from various international teams. It crossed my mind that maybe that was some sort of pre arranged mass exodus of, of Arsenal players and obviously other players from other teams have left the group as well. So maybe that's why he Picked so many players and much of the discourse around that Uruguay friendly, which was a terrible game, really bad, but you know, so many international friendlies are dreadful and this was right up there with the worst of them. Much of the discourse centered around the fact that, you know, including the pre match punditry, the commentary, various common pieces written about it in the build up that if any player puts a foot wrong, that's it, they're out, they're will ruin their chance. And a. I suspect that probably wasn't the case. I'm sure Tuchel has a very good idea of who he's bringing to the World cup and who isn't. There's probably only a handful if of places up for grabs and they're for fringe players who, who may not play much of a part. That's terrible pressure for any player to be under and I suspect a few of them might have wilted under that pressure whether it was there or not. But yeah, apparently he's right. The other teams didn't do that. And look, I just presume Thomas Tuchel knows what he's doing, he has some sort of plan. But these friendlies, this window is a bad one. And you wonder about the wisdom of playing friendlies at this time of the season. I've mentioned the Arsenal withdrawals from England and other sides. A lot of people seem very angry about it. I'm not sure why. Because it's in England's best interest for the likes of Sacco and Rice to get arrest. And it's in Arsenal's best interest for them to get arrest. I suspect that's why people are mad because they don't support Arsenal. They want Arsenal to fail.
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Paul, we are contractually obliged to ask what did we learn? And it comes to you to do your very best to answer this question. I will accept not a lot as an answer.
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Well, first of all, I think I've got to put a statement out about how bad this game was. It, it was dreadful. But I think some of the panel have maybe not watched football as bad as some of the football I've watched because I'm hearing people saying worst game ever. I've. I've watched British Virgin Islands playing Anguilla at 2am and it's been. I've seen worse. But no, in terms of sheer bleakness of spectacle, I think I'd agree that this is one of the most pointless and dull games I've ever seen. And did we learn anything? I almost think this Ben White situation, the booing, it almost felt like there had to be a narrative created. So this has become a huge thing now. But I'm wondering if that's just because there was literally nothing else to really talk about apart from the fact that it seemed like. Did Ugarte get two yellow cards? Not get sent off?
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Yeah, but he didn't.
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He didn't, Jake. Oh, did he not? Because it really looked like it was.
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We were very confused. But later on it turned out that apparently they switched captains early in the first half and the booking went to Jimenez, the. The defender.
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Ah, that's a shame because that was a thing, wasn't it?
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That was an event. I mean, also from it, from a Uruguay perspective, I did think it was quite interesting how excitable they seemed to get that. That one all draw, you know, to, to bag their. Their pretty pointless one all draw. And I'm wondering if from Uruguay perspective, they'd come into this off the back of a 51 trouncing against the USA. They've been on a pretty dreadful run, like they'd had a couple of quite grim results. They were, they were poor against Dominican Republic, they weren't great against Uzbekistan. They, they kind of ground out a nil. Nil with Mexico. So I'm thinking in a way maybe what we don't want to overestimate is just how much I think Uruguay were pretty flat and wanted quite badly to prove a point with this game. England, on the other hand, just, just didn't look like they wanted to be there at all. So in a way, this was probably quite a good result for an England side that was, as you say, like a C team who didn't, didn't massively want to be playing. But yeah, I have very, very little to offer about the actual game.
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No, no, that's fine. Did you boo, Jacob? Did you boo Ben White?
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Well, we were saying about 15 minutes in that this game feels like it needs a Ben White booing because nothing's happening. If you're writing then. If you, if you're having to write like 900 words on it, then, yeah, you need something. So some people were quite pleased that he came on and got booed in the press box just because it gave them something to write about.
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You can really reduce your word count by quoting the boo and putting in loads of O's and exclamation marks.
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How much, Jacob, how much booing was it, though? On tv? It sounded like a fair bit boo, but was it. And was it mostly coming from the press box?
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Yeah, no, it was just. Yeah, it was Barney. It was no, it was fairly. It was pretty loud. It was impossible to miss it and obviously it happened when he scored, which was just bizarre. I think there were things that you could take from the game. I think that Jordan Henderson, just to pick one out, was quite exposed in the first half. He was not great. And if you weren't simply picking him for the character and the leadership, you could make a strong case for him not to be in the squad, not to be ahead of certain other midfielders. James Garner was. That's a pretty encouraging debut. I think Tuca was maybe having a bit of fun when he called in the mini Valverde, because he had just been asked by Uruguayan journalists if there was one player in the Uruguay squad who he could take and it not be Valverde, who would it be? So I think he. He had Valverde on the mind when he said that, but Ghana was. Was pretty good and I think wouldn't be surprised if he starts again against Japan on. On Tuesday. The one really big thing to come out of it again, I guess, is that Foden just really struggled as the number 10. Tuchel talked about him not being adventurous enough in that position, and it just feels like you're getting to that stage with him where nobody, no manager has been able to work him out in an England shirt. Does he. Does he entirely enjoy being there? Will he enjoy being there over seven weeks? You get to that point where this is the one position where they've got so much strength in depth and you start to feel that potentially he's going to be the one to miss out, because Palmer, who was put under quite a lot of pressure before the game by Tuchel, did come on and make a pretty good impact, made the goal. And I thought he was more positive than Foden was when he was in possession and could have had another assist if Calvert Lewin had put the first free kick away. That's another thing to come out of it is these two backup strikers, neither of them really stood out. Slanky worked very hard. Calvert Lewin missed two chances. And again you come to it thinking, is he just going to decide that the best thing to do is not take anybody to back up Harry Kane? And if they get into a position where they do need to do something, do you find a workaround? Whether that's Bellingham up front or if he really gambles and decides that he wants to take Foden as a false nine, potentially. But at the moment, nobody's really pushing for the backup number nine at the moment.
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Yeah. And of course Harry Kane will roll his ankle, what late in May for Bayern Munich and he won't quite be fit enough, but he'll play all the games. And Stodge, about what did you make Barry of Thomas Tuchel talking about Harry Maguire who played okay. And then subsequently he says he's fifth choice behind Concert Gay Stones and Chalaba because I think Mark Langdon was talking to on the radio saying, look, we constantly complain about managers not being honest and now Tuchel is being honest, but it does sound a bit. He might wait until he's not there like the Japan game's done.
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Harry Maguire is a big boy. I'm sure he knows he's not first choice. And if you're not first or second choice, center back doesn't really matter where you are in the pecking order. I, I think it's an odd thing for a coach to say because unlike sort of pub bores like us, you have to factor in your opposition when you're deciding who, who's in your team. So just to say he is fifth choice regardless of who we play seems a weird thing to say, but I don't think Harry Maguire will be particularly upset. Harry Maguire has faced far greater adversity than being told his fifth choice out of five in a squad and, and come back from it. And it may very well end up that he gets to play anyway for, for any number of reasons. So I, I wouldn't imagine he minds. I have no problem with Thomas Tuchel saying it, but it, yeah, it's slightly odd thing to say.
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Jacob, do you have strong thoughts on wide right? Because it felt like Saka was obviously going to be number one and Madawaki's played really well for England in some of the qualifiers would be number two and Bowen might be unlucky to miss out. But Saka's form isn't great matter. He's got a bit of an injury. I just wonder if there is a bit of. Might be room for Jared Bowen that.
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Yeah, definitely. I mean Bowen's obviously had such a tough season, but throughout that has battled really hard for West Ham and I think that actually slightly marks him out that in such a terrible season he's kept on going. Probably not been at his absolute best, but he's the captain and been a leader throughout that and still scoring and creating and his goal involvements are one of the highest for an English player in the Premier League. So I think that does, that does stand out and I think that puts him in contention and also the fact that with these number Nines, as I said before, not. Not really doing too much. He is someone who can play potentially through the middle as well. He does have a chance. I mean, with all the number tens, you do sort of try to look at ways to cram them all in. And if Saka's not there, I think maybe, maybe Palmer could play wide right. But Tuchel has said that he's. He sees him as a number 10 and he's so big. Tuchel on trying to play this Premier League style with a lot of pace and intensity, and one of the big things around that is having a lot of speed out wide and direct players. So on the left, it's Rashford or Gordon, and Gordon will probably come in on Tuesday. Does he decide to shove a number 10 out there who's maybe a little bit slower, or does he look for someone like Bowen who can bring more directness and speed? I mean, the problem that England had on Friday night was that Uruguay wants. That first injury happened, they were able to slow the momentum down because England had started quite well. And then after that, it just. England weren't able to really control the tempo at all and they weren't able to open them up with any kind of creative play. The one way that they had was the fast play out wide, and once that kind of gone down, they weren't able to offer too much more. And that's probably going to become an issue during the World cup when they come up against teams who are able to give them those problems with the low block or mid block that Uruguay came up with on Friday night. And generally speaking, England have struggled to sort of shift the tempo in these tournament games when they've come up against stronger opposition.
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Handbredsen is released the handbrake in German just in case someone wants to yell it at Thomas Tuchel when we're struggling to break down a low block. Paul, you've watched football in some interesting places and some hot places, and does it worry you that Tuchel is talking about this sort of fast Premier League style in the summer heat of the United States and possibly Mexico?
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Well, we'll have the hydration breaks, Max, so.
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Oh, that's true.
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It doesn't look like we'll be playing more than about 22 minutes of football in any chunk anyway, which actually, genuinely, I think, will make a bit of a difference. I actually think that kind of intensity might be quite a useful asset because you, you look at the way that, yeah, Uruguay were playing here and I, I think you're going to see a lot of that a lot of teams going to try and take the pace out of the game. I think a lot of the time most teams are going to be able to do that. They're going to be able to slow the game down and force a lot of what we saw against Uruguay, this kind of frustrating passages where England are trying to unpick a team that are very well organized and, and solid and structured. So I actually think in a way, the best thing that Tuchel can do is have a team that have something that kind of marks them out. And I think intensity is probably the one thing we've got to offer in that regard.
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So we played Japan on Tuesday. England do Japan beat Scotland 1 nil. Steve Clark was surprised to hear Scottish fans booing after their defeat. Fati McGlinchey says there's a lot of talk about Steve Clark's future, what he wants, what the SFA want. But has anyone stopped to consider what the Tartan army want? He's never explained what he was thinking in Euro 2020 and 24, and he still continues, we do not want more of that nonsense. And in 2026, that is just one voice, of course, Barry. But you imagine you'd hope Scotland would be more upbeat going into their first World cup in, you know, a generation
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after the levels of excitement generated during their last outing at Hamden against Denmark. That was always going to be a hard act to follow, and this was very much after the Lord Mayor show, because this too was a poor game of football. Scotland had chances. Scott McTominay, Andy Robertson, George Hurst, all had chances of varying degrees of what to say, easiness. None of them scored. Japan won courtesy of a Junior EO winner in the 84th or 5th minute, I think. But it wasn't a good game. Scotland fans, a lot of them left the stadium before full time and then a lot of those who remained booed, as they are entitled to do. Steve Clark wasn't impressed. He said he was asked if he'd heard the booing. He said, yes, it disappoints me. It's just the modern way it seems to be now. If you lose a game, you get booed. I think a lot of Scotland fans are frustrated by Steve Clark's inherent conservatism. I think quite a few of them thought he would have been better served giving some of Scotland's fringe players a run out in this game, which he didn't do. But they're off to the World Cup. I think booing probably isn't helpful, but they'll get over it and so will Steve Clark.
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And we look forward to them being at the World cup now. I mean, Haiti's the game, isn't it? Because that group with Morocco and Brazil is not, is not easy. They could be. I worked out, I did a spreadsheet and they, as I said, I gave them a win against Haiti, but they, you've got to get a sort of zero goal difference, really, if you want to get through.
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That's an early spreadsheet.
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It is an early spread. Well, I wanted to be the f. I wrote a column last week. I wanted to be the first idiot to plot England's route to the final. And I believe I might be if you believe we'll beat France in the quarterfinal, Argentina in the semi and Spain in the final.
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In in other Scotland news, Max. Oh yeah, Scotland fans who go wearing kilts, they have been given permission to where there's Sporins into grounds because sporins are bigger than the official FIFA designated size bag you were allowed bring into a World cup match. But the Scottish FA have been in talks with FIFA and those who wish to wear aspirants into football matches at the World cup have been given the all clear to do so.
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So that's good news, that is, I mean, you could see Trump and Gianni getting together and releasing their own FIFA branded sporrans that were slightly smaller. And you'd have to kind of, you'd have to lower your Sporin into one of those Ryanair hand luggage things before you're allowed to proceed into the game for which you paid $5,000 for a ticket. Anyway, that'll do for part one. Part two. We'll look ahead to the European qualifiers and the other ones as well in just a second.
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C
Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly Solo 4 Euro qualifiers, which for our audience, not quite as exciting as perhaps we hoped for, but they are still exciting if you are, say, Bosnian or Kosovan or Swedish, etc. Italy have their first chance to get to a World cup for 12 years. Nikki is on on Wednesday and the winners go into a group pull on paper which has Canada, Qatar and Switzerland. So you're like, it's not just getting to a World cup, it's like if you get there, then you have a great opportunity to progress too.
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Yeah, but I think we're all stuck, and I'm stuck too, that we look at Italy like old Italy, right? Yeah. In the same way that you hear that you see the Scottish fans booing the Japan result. Fair enough. But Japan are a really solid team these days. Like, I think if that was an equivalent South American or European team, I'm not sure the fans would be quite so incandescent at, you know, narrowly losing that game. I think there's a view that people still see Japan as the old Japan, you know, knocked out in the groups or maybe sort of just about get their way through and get knocked out. But it's similar with Italy. I still look at Italy as if this is Italy that, that I grew up with. This is the 2006 Italy. This is such a different beast, this Italy team. And I think, yeah, okay, you could look through and say, look, it's a welcoming group. But actually if you look at the way Switzerland played in qualification and you look at the way that Italy played in qualification, there's no doubt which team is the superior side in my eyes at the moment. So I think there's also this amazing thing that Italy, I don't know if you saw the controversy of the players celebrating the Bosnia win. The real mistake here, I think, is the Italian TV channel that aired it, the Italian main channel, rai, showed footage of, I think it's two or three Italy.
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Vicario and maybe demarco de Marco.
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Federico de Mario was probably just delighted
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to be somewhere else. Right. Vicario was just like, yeah, I'm not in North London. This is great.
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They won't make me go back, will they? Yeah, but. And I think there was also an element that I don't know if they managed to pull this excuse off, but they were saying they were, you know, happy for their mate Jeko, and, you know. Yeah, possibly, but it's. It was an incredible psychological error to kind of have that footage now circulating in Bosnia of, like, in Italy celebrating the fact they're playing Bosnia. You couldn't do a worse job of motivating a Bosnia team who are clearly very, you know, very decent, solid side. And so does feel like Italy are doing everything they can to get ahead of themselves and set this up for a really miserable evening in Bosnia.
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You want to talk about Kosovo, right? One game away from their first ever World Cup.
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Yeah. And this. This is a. An incredible story. It's kind of been quite a slow burn throughout the qualification process. There were all these moments, especially with Sweden being so bad that it was almost hard believe how bad Sweden were through qualification. But there were these moments where you kept thinking, well, Kosovo can't. Can't qualify, can they? And in the end, they couldn't quite outmuscle Switzerland for the automatic spot, but coming into the playoffs, yeah, they didn't necessarily feel like underdogs when they came up against Slovakia, but this game was. Was crazy. I was watching Kosovo, Slovakia, and Slovakia twice went ahead at home, and Kosovo battled back each time to. To overturn that and win. And it's. It's an amazing story. Kosovo, actually, they are FIFA's newest members alongside Gibraltar, so they only were accepted in 2016. They've only been in FIFA for a decade. And, yeah, Slovakia. In fact, funnily enough, Slovakia doesn't even recognize Kosovo. So there was quite a bit of. Quite a few jokes going backwards of wars that, you know, you're gonna have to recognize Kosovo now. They've scored four goals against you. But it is an amazing story, this Kosovo story, and the way that they're playing under Franco Foda, the head coach, it has. They've been playing brilliant football. They now host Turkey and, you know, you would expect Turkey to be the favorites, but I don't know, the Kosovo just keep surpassing expectations and it. You know, it. There's actually quite a poignant thing about the fact they're playing Turkey in this game, because Turkey were one of the few countries that agreed to play Kosovo back in 2014 when they were unrecognized by almost everybody else and Kosovo were sort of scrabbling around to get teams to play. Turkey were actually one of the teams that really supported them. So it's going to be a really interesting occasion in Pristina with obviously a huge fevered atmosphere with Kosovo playing Turkey, but a lot of actual mutual like between the two teams.
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C
The Graham Potter redemption arc is nearly complete. Sweden take on Poland. Jacob, you watched a lot of Graham Potter at Chelsea. Are you delighted to see him on the cusp of a World Cup?
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Yeah, because he's a good guy and he's had such a terrible time, apart from I think his long Chelsea payoff influenced break. But I'm sure he had a great time just on a beach, probably living off that money. So that was good. But then he ruined that by going to West Ham and having then a terrible time and probably managing himself out of a Premier League job for quite a while. So to get this one and then potentially from really bad position where they were in November, be going to the World Cup. Yeah. Great for him. It was a good win the other night and I would like to see him do that while while obviously acknowledging I. I bear no ill will towards Poland.
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C
Yeah, how very diplomatic of you. I mean, I guess if Isaac and Kulasevsky are fit for the world coming. I don't know if they are. I should check those things. But, you know, Sweden could be quite an interesting bet if they get there. Czechia, Denmark, it should have been Ireland. Barry, you over the last few days have you sent quite a sort of, you know, like a reflective voice note on the pod on Friday and it has turned to anger in these last few days.
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Yeah.
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E
The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am that we didn't beat chia. We were 2 nil up against them. We had them on the ropes. We should have won that game. And chances to qualify for the World cup when you're the Republic of Ireland don't come around too often. We blew it. We absolutely blew it and it is very frustrating. I think Hymer Halgrimsson and his players are getting a bit too easy. Right. From the Irish media or certain sections of it anyway. But we won't have another game of consequence now till Euro 2028 qualifiers. So it's over a year and nearly a year and a half till we get to play a proper game again, a proper competitive, meaningful game again. And that's Annoying, to say the least, but there you go. There's obviously no guarantee we'd have beaten Denmark. I fondly remember those times years ago when I. It seems far more recent, but, yeah, back around 20, 1920 when we used to play Denmark, it seemed home and away every week for quite. For at least two years. And pretty much all the games ended in draws, I think, apart from one spanking they dished out to us.
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C
But it was.
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Yeah, it's. I am annoyed.
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C
Okay. Well, I hope you feel better and do you have my sympathies. You will be buoyed by the fact, Barry, that at some point England will get knocked out of the World cup and we will be rooming together when it happens.
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They may not, Max. They may win the World Cup.
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Yeah. As well. And also you may have killed me by how annoying you find me on an extended period and how easy you are to wind up and how fun it is. Anyway, Paul. Elsewhere, Suriname so close against Bolivia, but they lost 2 1. So Bolivia, Iraq, with the winners going into a group with France, Senegal and Norway. That is tough. And then Jamaica beat New Caledonia 1 nil and will play Dr. Congo. So who do we want to get to the World cup or who do you think will get to the World cup out of those two playoffs?
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A
Always a good question. I think Iraq and Dr. Congo would. Would be the strong favorites there. Suriname really did blow it.
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C
It was a. Oh, they had some chances, didn't they?
- [30:16]
A
It was there to be won, wasn't it? And it was. It was kind of a remarkable achievement from Suriname. And I think, again, it. It owes a lot to this being able to call on this incredibly strong Netherlands, sort of raised and Netherlands schooled contingent. But they. They really made Bolivia look all at sea for long periods. And I think Bolivia obviously being used to winning their games, higher altitude back home, they suddenly looked really ordinary for long periods of that game until Bolivia got level on the New Caledonia front. I've rarely seen a team win as many hearts and minds as New Caledonia. There was a huge amount of Mexicans starting to support them basically as the underdog. But there's also this really lovely dynamic that they became really popular with everyone around them. Like, the hotel staff loved the New Caledonia guys because they were really friendly and they were sort of just hanging out like normal guys with all the staff to the extent where when they went off to their game against Jamaica, they'd unveiled all these colored balloons for them. So they walked out of that hotel to this, like, parade of balloons, which was really Sweet. And apparently New Caledonia's kit man loved Mexico so much, he's staying there. He's just going to live there.
- [31:25]
C
Oh, forever.
- [31:26]
A
Yeah, that's it. I'm standing. So I think New Caledonia did brilliant spirit.
- [31:31]
C
I love that.
- [31:31]
A
You know, they had a great time. Good New Caledonia, they played really well as well. I honestly thought that Jamaica game, you know, Jamaica had been so poor during qualification, but there's so much talent in that team, you know, they should have eased past New Caledonia and especially when they scored relatively early. I thought it was kind of amazing to see. See New Caledonia hold up as well as they did. But, yeah, I think. I think looking forward to these fixed. You know, Dr. Congo were always strong favorites. I'd say Iraq are favorites on that front, but they will be really fascinating games, I think.
- [32:02]
C
Good news for Jamaica manager Steve Clark, of course. Elsewhere, Belgium beat USA 5 2, Paul. But there was a kit clash, which at this level is great. Reading the details that they were scrabbling around a hotel to try and find some kits that didn't clash is absolutely brilliant.
- [32:17]
A
It's the most relatable thing I've ever seen in international football, isn't it? So as far as I can understand the story, it's that the USA really wanted to wear their kind of nice new kit, this Stars kit. Belgium didn't want them to wear it. They said, you know, you've got to wear your alternate kit, but USA just refused. But the amazing thing is, yeah, the fact that neither side thought to bring a second kit just in case. And there was even, I think, talk of someone just going back to the hotel to grab the other kit, which I think has got to be the most Sunday League sentiment I've ever heard.
- [32:48]
C
Surely someone's got it in the back of their Peugeot, haven't they?
- [32:52]
A
You think the kit man's head's got a role here, Sean? If you're the kit man and you're sitting there watching that kit clash, it's got to be a head in hands moment.
- [33:00]
C
What else did you want to talk about? Sudan calling up a 12th tier non league player from the Bristol and Suburban Premier. This is good.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah, this is a lovely story. So this is Mohamed Ibrahim of Phoenix Next Gen, and they play in the Bristol and Suburban Premier League, which is the 12th tier of the English football pyramid. And yeah, Mohammed was. Was called up for Sudan's game against Saudi Arabia. It's effectively a Sudan sort of development. Young side facing a under 23 Saudi Arabia team. They both used this friendly as a kind of way to look at some young players. But yeah, the fact that he was called up from level 12, we've seen a few players like this. So Lichtenstein's goalscorer against Tanzania in the FIFA series, he was a fifth tier German league player. You occasionally see players come in who are around that fifth or sixth tier of a big European league, but I don't know if I've ever seen a player at level 12. And it's just a really lovely story. He sounds like a really lovely guy, really inspirational figure around the club. And it's just a really nice story. He said it represents hope that he got called up. It's actually part of a slightly wider move from Sudan. Sudan, I think looking at the success of other nations in doing this, are making more of a move to see who they've got in the diaspora in different countries. I think they're going to bring in people in major European countries to actually scout within those countries and then report back to the federation. So there's sort of a lot of that going on at the moment in international football. But I don't think he. He played. But for him to be on the bench for a game, you know, an international game is fantastic.
- [34:40]
C
Three brothers making their debuts in the same match for Rwanda.
- [34:44]
A
Yes. So this is. This is. I. Someone will definitely know this, but I don't know if three brothers have ever made debuts. So three brothers all making their debuts for Rwanda in their 40 win over Granada in the FIFA.
- [34:57]
C
I mean, if you don't know, Paul, I'm struggling. With all due respect to Jacob and
- [35:01]
A
Barry, can you tell me if any Rwandan brothers ever made their. But this was great. So this was actually the first game for Stephen Constantine. So British coach, great journeyman coach. He's coached just a whole string of national teams.
- [35:14]
D
He.
- [35:14]
A
He's come in at Rwanda and they got this great 40 win over Granada. But yeah, the thing that captured my attention was the fact that, yeah, three brothers making their debuts. Two of them are twins. So Joy Lance Michels and Joy Slade Michaels, both called Joy as their first name, both played. The goal was scored by their brother, their younger brother, who's a year younger, Leroy Jacques Michaels. Interestingly, they are 30 and 31 respectively. So they're not like kind of young guys breaking into the squad. They're. They're making relatively late debuts and all three of the brothers playing Azerbaijan, but
- [35:46]
D
all for a different club.
- [35:48]
A
Make of that what you will.
- [35:49]
C
I mean, if you've had twins and you decide to go again a year later. That is what I take away from that. You know, you've got to be mad.
- [35:57]
A
Yeah, you're right. All I ever want for my kids is that they will play in Azerbaijan. So if of course both my boys can sign for Azerbaijani clubs, then yeah, you've done your job as a parent
- [36:05]
C
and I'm not happy if one of my sons makes his debut for Rwanda. As long as they both make it at the same time, then I'm happy now. Senegal are really milking winning afcon, aren't they? It's great fun. They. They paraded the trophy before the game against Peru in Paris on Saturday. Last 70 odd thousand there, if not more. The head of the country's football federation vowing a crusade against the decision to strip the team of the title. It's like they're going to have to. It's like someone is going to have to go and get the trophy off them and sort of like Nick, steal it at night. Faced with what amounts to be the most blatant and unprecedented administrative robbery in the history of our sport, the Senegalese Football Federation refuses to accept this as inevitable, the FSF president Abdoulaf said at a media conference in Paris. Their social media posted a timetable for events around Saturday's friendly, which included a trophy parade. So good for them, I think everyone kind of feels. And on a more sober note, the Iran's men's national team wore black arm armbands and held school bags. Totally heartbreaking as their national anthem played before a match with Nigeria as a protest against the deadly strike on a primary school. On the first day of the Iran war, 168 people were killed, including 110 children. As things stand, Iran is still at the World cup, but obviously that conflict is ongoing. It doesn't seem to have an end point, so you will know as soon as we do about whether they do go to the World Cup. But that'll do for part two and part three. Tottenham the gift that keeps on giving.
- [37:36]
B
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations foreign.
- [38:07]
C
To Part 3 of the Guardian Football Weekly, Harvey says, is the voice note industry close to collapse? Liam is Tudor, the worst interim manager ever. So Eagle Tudor has left his role as spurs interim coach after 44 days, seven games in charge. Mutually agreed to Part ways. Spurs said an update on a new head coach will provide it in due course. I mean, they could have done this. Obviously it's heartbreaking that he lost his dad and maybe that has contributed to how long this has taken further without a victory. In 13 league matches, Igor Tudor did get one point against Liverpool. They won one game in that Champions League game over at Athletic after losing the first leg in a comical way. Any idea, Barry, why this has taken a week?
- [38:47]
E
I'd imagine it's, it's for the reason you said, because he lost his dad and it would have been really bad optics to sack him straight away when they possibly wanted to. I'm not sure it matters who's in charge at this stage or what influence they can have. I think you could put any number of candidates names in a hat, pick one out, give them the job, and it would be as good a way as making a decision as any. I'm not sure the spurs hierarchy, well, they've shown they can't be trusted to get these appointments right, so there's no reason why they'll get the next one right. Do you get an Al Pacino type from any given Sunday in who can do an inches speech?
- [39:32]
C
And I mean, if it was Al Pacino, I would give Al Pacino a better chance than most managers they picked.
- [39:39]
E
Yeah, it's looking like they want Roberto de Zerbi. That's already fomenting division among spurs fans because of the support, very public support he gave Mason Greenwood when he was manager of Marseille. And that aside, and I, I think, you know, it's the people who don't want him in for that reason. I, I'd be on their side. Even when he was in Brighton manager, he's, he's not exactly a cam manager is. He's, he's very outspoken. He's regularly got in trouble with match officials. He flaps and gesticulates and shouts and roars. I'm not sure that's what Tottenham need on the sideline, but I, I don't really know what Tottenham need on the sideline or if it makes any difference who they get at this stage. So, you know, I'm rubber necking like everyone else. It's, it's, it's tremendously entertaining.
- [40:40]
C
Bill Edgar, who's delivered some great stats this week, said spurs have sacked more managers than they've had home league wins since last May. As a West Ham f Jacob, who are you hoping comes in?
- [40:51]
D
I agree with Barry. I'm not sure what the answer is at this point. I mean, do you go for. De Zerbi is said to be unsure about whether or not he wants to take it in this situation and would rather see where they are in the season, are they still a Premier League team? And if they are, then he takes it then. So although he seems to be the number one choice, it seems that he's not so sure about taking it in this situation. And you can kind of understand that because the nature of a football manager is you kind of need to be slightly deluded about your ability and think that you are the guy and you have to transmit that to your players and that you are better than anybody else. It doesn't matter. You're better than Pep Guardiola, even if all the evidence points otherwise. But even in this situation, you can see why a manager is looking at and thinking, I don't want to have on my CV the guy who took Tottenham down, the guy who took down a team who were in the reckoning to be in the ill fated Super League not so long ago. So they've got. It's so difficult to work out if it's not him. What do you do next? Because you go from a attacking manager like De Zerbi one end of the list and then you go, right, the next guy is Sean Dyche, who's completely different who they're talking about. But then if it's not Sean Dyche then maybe you go for a club legend in Harry Redknapp or Glenn Hoddle. Jermaine Defoe is off the is out. Yes, he is, because he's got the working job in the National League, so they can't go for him. But it's a complete mess and none of the managers that they're going for, the shortlist, it has no common theme through it, apart from the fact that it's just complete. It's completely impossible to decipher what it is that they, that they want. So you don't know what it is that can get them out of it. And I'm not sure that they have any idea what they actually really think is the answer here. And that's, that's basically shown from, from the fact that they appointed Igor Tudor in the first place. If the guy was, was any good, then he wouldn't be seen as this firefighter because he would be able to keep a job for, for longer than the firefighting phase, basically. It wouldn't be that he's always in a short term role, he would stay in a job for a long time and instead they Bring in a guy who has no knowledge of the, of the Premier League. And then also they just, they get fooled by a point at a pretty bad Liverpool side at the moment and drag it out for a little bit longer and lose the really big game. Basically, fans of West Ham, Nottingham Forest and, and Leeds are looking at it and thinking, great. You have absolutely no idea what you're doing. The point against Liverpool, the, the slightly deceptive win against Atletico Madrid was, was fantastic because it tells people who don't know what they're doing that maybe there's, maybe there's something in this. And instead they come up against basically a competent Forest side and lose. And now they're in this situation and obviously the next time, by the next time they play, they could be in the bottom three because West Ham play Wolves at home two days before the Sunderland game. So if they are, I mean, they've, they've still somehow managed to stay out of the relegation zone for, for this period. We've not seen Tottenham's response to being in the bottom three yet. And if that happens, it's, it's. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see if these players can cope.
- [44:11]
E
Whoever they do approach, you'd imagine, can make the most outrageous financial demands in football management history because they are absolutely desperate. So if they approach you, you can say, right, I want half a million pounds a week and I want a 40 million pound bonus if you stay up. And if he happens to keep them up, then he'll have been worth it because the financial consequences of spurs getting relegated are absolutely disastrous. So whoever does get approached really has the spurs hierarchy over a barrel and they deserve to be over a barrel.
- [44:50]
D
So what do you think would have happened if Levy was here in this situation? They wouldn't be in this situation, would they? Because he would have acted, he'd have
- [44:56]
C
got rid of Frank earlier. The thing is, it's really annoying that you can't like, play multiple football manager games. So where would Tottenham be if angel stayed for this whole period? Where would they be if they hadn't got rid of Frank? You sort of think they'd probably be a bit higher up the table if both of those were true, but they probably should have got rid of Frank earlier than they did. Yeah, but I think you're right. I think Levy would have done something and, and I'm, I will get yelled at by Tottenham fans because I think Levy, you know, you're always better when you're not there. Right. You know, if I miss a radio show or Something people are, ah, where are you? Whereas when you do it, no one's that interested. I. I think Levy's stock is rising as the people making the decisions now are just absolutely just. I mean, they must be. I don't know what you think, Paul. Like, over the summer, regardless of where Tottenham finished, everybody in that hierarchy must be under real pressure. They have just announced they're going to New Zealand for a tour at the end of July. You know, it replies to that going, shouldn't we have a manager before you decide to go to Auckland in July? And like, you know, people saying, actually, they might be in the Carabao cup first round, they can't. They won't be able to do both. I don't know. I don't know. I presume you're enjoying watching it. You're. You're. You have a. You have a kinder heart than Barry, but still fun.
- [46:08]
A
No, I mean, everyone's enjoying this, Max.
- [46:10]
C
I'm sorry.
- [46:10]
A
Okay. As a neutral, as a complete neutral,
- [46:13]
C
I'm quite enjoying it.
- [46:14]
A
I. I think, yeah, I think it has to be a complete, you know, overhaul of the entire thing. It did occur to me, you know, you're listing all these managers that have tried and failed, all these options that seem like tough options. Is it time to stop employing football manager of any kind for Spurs? Maybe they just need a famous person, like a. Just a guy. Like, what if he sent in David Attenborough or something like that? Oh, no, they kill him, wouldn't it? That'd be the end of Attenborough.
- [46:39]
C
That'd be another one they could do.
- [46:43]
E
Is.
- [46:43]
C
Is. Is kill David Attenborough? Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's sort of one of those things where you think, would Jonathan Wilson definitely relegate them? You know, I can't see him motivating the players.
- [46:54]
D
There'd be some really expensive team meals, wouldn't that would.
- [46:58]
C
Yeah. Excellent wine he'd share with Berg after a game. But, you know, you mentioned Arsenal fans being insufferable if they win the league. If Jonathan Wilson kept Tottenham up, we would never hear the end of that, would we? Anyway, we'll see. We'll see. Sean Dyche was on the radio show after me on Talks About Sport on Saturday, and he said, I'm not talking to Tottenham or something like that. So, you know, I'm sure he could have his arm twisted. But that's what he said. So far. He's having a pint of Guinness in the Seven Bells or something very on brand for Sean. Roy Hodgson is back. He's taking charge of your Bristol City till the end of the season. I've had great conversations with the board. I'm really excited by the opportunity to help until the end of the season. We will get straight to work and look for positive performance is against Charlton on Good Friday. He was sacked by Bristol City 44 years ago in 1982. The longest gap between managerial stints at the same club previously. Neil Warnock and Huddersfield town. 27 years. Back to Bill Edgar again, who says the new Bristol City manager, Roy Hodgson, 78, was alive at the same time as the player who scored the first ever FA cup goal in November 1871. Hodgson was born in 1947. Jarvis Kenrick died aged 96 in 1949. It's lovely this Paul, isn't it? No, he's lovely.
- [48:17]
A
Not a Crystal City fan.
- [48:18]
C
Okay, okay.
- [48:19]
A
No, it's a completely nonsensical decision because
- [48:21]
C
you're fine, aren't you? You're not getting relegated. Like, you're just sort of pootling about.
- [48:25]
A
We set off aiming for the playoffs and, you know, let's be totally honest, if you want someone to come in and bring some fresh new ideas, I'm not sure Roy Hodgson is the man. It's. It's like. It's an incomprehensible decision to bring him in, but Struber was doing a pretty good job. He obviously, we had a really good start to season, got our hopes up, which is the Pistol City way. It's gone off the rails pretty spectacularly. But it's really not Struber's fault at all. It's just a constant problem and the only way we can break out of this is a change of ownership or like, you know, again, like we were saying with spurs, it needs a fundamental overhaul from the top because effectively we just don't have any money invested in the club. We're not investing enough to. To actually have a squad that can push on for the playoffs. But that is the aim, to be in the playoffs. So, no, yeah, we're safe from relegation, but it's a pretty bleak thing to be celebrating when you know, we are, we are. We set off the start of the season having been playoff, you know, playoff semifinalist last season. We set off this season aiming to be back in the playoffs. Now, to be sacking your manager to bring in Roy Hodgson, it's just baffling. At least, if nothing else, he, you know, it's been 40 years. If he comes in and says, what did I miss? You can probably just say nothing really, because I've been alive for 40 years and I've been a Bristol City fan
- [49:37]
C
for all of them.
- [49:38]
A
And honestly, we beat Liverpool once in the FA cup, but besides that, watch
- [49:42]
C
this Brian Tinian goal and then you're up to speed.
- [49:47]
A
You could do the highlights clips in about a minute and a half. In my 40 years
- [49:53]
C
on that subject, we had a few emails about Roy Hodgson rambling around the west country. And Max, a different Max, wrote in to say, I see Roy Hodgson's wild wilt or 2026 has ended up in Bristol. Judging from his previously established direction of travel on departing Laycock, he must have spent the past fortnight tearing through Caution, Bath and Willsbridge, leaving a trail of sore heads and broken hearts in his remorseless wake. Why is this most restless of spirits chosen to linger by the coast? Well, as any gap year student will tell you, but perpetual traveling can get quite expensive. I suspect a shortage of funds required the great man to find a temporary job, in this case managing a football team in the championship rather than a dodgy tiki bar on Bondi Beach. He'll do his two months, replenish both coffers and spirit, let the old wanderlust kick in and he'll strike west once more, scooting off over the Severn Bridge to Newport. The good people of Wales should prepare to reap the whirlwind. All the very best to you. Thank you, Max. That's wonderful. Now, anyone who has the paywall for the Telegraph, I'm not sure in the Venn diagram of Guardian Football Weekly listeners, how many that is, will have been able to read the whole of an interview that Richard Keyes did with the paper. I haven't read the whole thing, but excerpts have been released, including the excellent he was talking about. He left his wife and went out with somebody younger, he said. For a long time I was Persona non grata. I was left with a lot of very angry wives. I wasn't invited to much, if anything at all. I remember one Christmas Day, the best Christmas day of my life, in fairness, when I sat down with a bottle of champagne, a can of tuna and I watched the Great Escape, Where Eagles Dare and the Guns of Navarone. Back to back to back. Three magnificent movies, actually. I've wanted to do it many times since. And Barry, you. You have some empathy with this.
- [51:40]
E
Well, I think I've had two Christmas days on my own now. Not. Not because I cheated on my wife, I hasten to add, I don't have a wife, but just through circumstance. Now, while I would have gone out for a few pints with friends earlier in the day, I think there's an awful lot to be said for Christmas Day and a movie. Double or triple bill on your own,
- [52:04]
C
yes, but not a can of tuna. This is the issue, isn't it?
- [52:07]
E
Well, I suspect that Kesey paints a very rosy picture of his Christmas Day alone, but I reckon by the time Gregory Peck and David Niven blow up the eponymous Aegean island based guns in the Guns of Navarone, the mixture of warm flat champagne and tuna brine in his stomach would have been quite unpleasant. So maybe he's looking back on the occasion with through rose tinted spectacles, let's say.
- [52:42]
C
I don't think anybody wants to think of the coagulated mess of that in the intestines of Richard Keys. I don't think that's where we wanted to take this podcast anyway. Yeah, I'd love to see more of it.
- [52:54]
E
The Guns of Navarro is a very Good movie. Alistair McLean Novel of the same name.
- [53:00]
C
We'll finish with this from Lucas who says hi all, I'm a huge fan of the pod. Been listening regularly since I was at university in 2015. I think the fact that England kept losing major tournaments since combined with the pride of Ireland, Barry Glendenning, is what's kept me around for so long as I don't think I could bear listening to Max's happiness if England won anything. Feeling relaxed about 2026. For what it's worth, says Lucas, I'm writing today after listening to the most recent episode talking about the World cup playoffs at the end of March. My ears perked up at Jonathan Wilson's anecdote about the Uruguayan ambassador to the uk, Luis Bermudez, having a hand in organizing the match between England and Uruguay. It grabbed me because I have a good friend at my work here in New York who's Uruguayan. His surname is Bermudez and I know his dad lives in London. It didn't take me long to connect those dots. I reached out to my friend who started laughing and confirmed that his dad is indeed Uruguay's ambassador to the uk and this had now been revealed to me by some podcast in his mind. Anyway, he planned to watch the match with his father, but sadly was unable to attend the game as we're both stateside. He told me that his father had mentioned that he had helped pitch the idea of the England game, but my friend just assumed he was flexing on him. He reacted by saying this must be a good podcast. If they did all that research and got so many details about the anthem in South Africa, Right, then maybe Wilson just had to listen to a man tell him a story. In the end, I think he was mainly tickled by the fact that someone referred to his father as a bloke. Well, I presume he is. Much love to everyone on the pod, especially Barry. Max, if by any chance this gets read with Nikki as a guest, I want to send all my love to her as well. We are a day early for Nikki, I'm afraid, or two days early. But your biggest Brazilian fan, Lucas. So there you go, Lucas. Thanks very much. So we are all one step away from the Uruguayan ambassador. Dinner parties will soon be invited to those Ferrero Rocher parties. Anyway, I feel like we've done enough today. We've managed to get a lot out of England one, Uruguay one. So well done, everybody. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Paul.
- [54:52]
A
Thank you.
- [54:52]
C
Thank you, Jacob.
- [54:53]
D
Thank you.
- [54:54]
C
Thanks, Baz.
- [54:55]
E
Thank you.
- [54:56]
C
Football Weekly is produced by Tayo Papula. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. We'll be back on Wednesday.
- [55:08]
D
This is the Guardian.
- [55:23]
B
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching your insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.