← Football Weekly.jpg)
Football Weekly
Forest ditch Dyche and Manchester City look ominous: Football Weekly Extra
00:51:35
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Will Unwin and Jonathan Liew as Nottingham Forest sack Sean Dyche and Manchester City close the gap on Arsenal to three points
Loading summary
Transcript177 lines
- [00:00]
A
This is the Guardian.
- [00:13]
B
Hello.
- [00:13]
A
What's this?
- [00:14]
B
A sacking before a podcast? Is Evangelos Marinakis trying to undermine the behemoth that is the Guardian Football Weekly? It's panic time at the bottom. Sean Dyche gets sacked by Nottingham Forest. Here comes Vitor Pereira. A goalless draw with Wolves not enough to save him. Dyche must be wondering how they didn't score that six on one in the first half. In more traditional news, you got your voice note yesterday. It's what we all wanted. Thomas Frank sacked by spurs shortly after we finished recording. We'll analyze where it went wrong and how good an interim of Redknapp, Sherwood and Hodl will do. Or Ange. Anyone? Ange, Anyone? Then back to the football. Burnley couldn't survive, could they? I mean, no, obviously, but a great win for them at Palace. For a few minutes, all of Jorgenstrand Larsson's worries disappeared. But then three goals in five minutes for Scott Parker, who sounded just as miserable as usual afterwards. But great for him. Palace aren't out of the woods. Meanwhile, another defeat for Brighton. At least if he does get the sack, Fabian Herzl is young enough to retrain to do something else. Good win for Villa to keep the chasing pack at arm's length. And a good win for Liverpool, the first team to do that at Sunderland. They were good. And it's that ominous Manchester City we see dispatching Fulham in the first half. In other news, Jim Ratcliffe, who moved to Monaco as an immigrant a few years ago, starts immigrant bashing in the uk. What a guy. Barry says he has an interesting fact on every one of the 16 FA cup ties this weekend. Hold onto your hats. We'll answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, will Unwin. Hello.
- [01:32]
A
Good morning, Max.
- [01:33]
B
Johnny Liu. Welcome.
- [01:34]
C
Hi.
- [01:35]
B
And the man with the facts, Barry Glendenning. Hello.
- [01:38]
D
Hi, Max.
- [01:39]
B
John says decent of Marinakis to fire Dyche before the pot is recording, avoiding the need of a voice note. However, knowing him, he'll have hired and subsequently fired Dy's replacement just after the pot has been recorded. So a voice note will be needed. Let Barry do it for once. Okay, then. So the bottom of the Premier League is really interesting. After the results last night. Burnley 18 points from 26, West Ham 24, Forest 27, Spurs 29, Leeds 30, Brighton 31 and Palace 32. We'll start with the sacking of Sean Dyche. Will, you were there last night to see the goalless draw. What do you. What do you make of what happened, apart from the fact it meant you had a very late night?
- [02:17]
A
I think in terms of the match, obviously Forest were very unlucky. 35 shots, none going in is surprising. I mean, not many d teams have 60% possession, but every time he has had 60% possession, he's failed to win in a match in 10 times in his career, according to Opto, which is quite a feat. Not a man keen on dominating matches. So I think they're unlucky on that level. The ground was probably one level below toxic from early on. Every misplaced pass failed shot brought irritation and Marinakis was in the stands and the sort of classic TV coverage you always. The screens kept panning to Marinakis when something went awry and he did not look happy. The jacket went off in the second half, which is a bold move in February to show that something's not right. So afterwards, Dyche came into the press conference and said, well, if he wants to sack me, that's up to him. And I was all wondering a bit, thinking this doesn't seem particularly right, but maybe even Forest will take sort of 24 hours to review the situation because Dyche was the pragmatic choice when he came in. Dyche did well when he came in. Dyche has only lost one in the past six games. They're not doing badly. And if you appoint sure dice, you have to accept that for the players who it seems struggled with his methods are going to have an intense time on the training ground to get what Dyche wants out of them. And on top of that, the football's not likely to be particularly attractive, which is what he's done throughout his career. And the only reason they had to appoint Sean Dyche is because Marinaki sacked Nuno and appointed Ange Postecoglou, which was a disaster and they needed someone like Dyche to get them out of the mess. So I think it's a bit, I don't know, naive maybe at the moment to make a third sacking of the season. You look at what they did last summer, that there's a lot of players came in, a couple more came in January or three more came in January. There's a lot of place for integrate. It's quite hard for a player to adapt to a new club when you're having four managers within six months or so. And this is it. And it's just at the moment I appreciate them relegation battle, but Dyesh is there to get them out there and probably would. And it's just a mess of their own making. And how that changes in the near future, I don't know. Victor Pereira is going to come in. It looks like almost certainly good luck to him for the final 13 games. But, yeah, nothing seems particularly well on the Trent and external factors can't really be blamed at this stage.
- [04:54]
B
So Nuno had 23 days, Ange 39, Dice had 114 days. Barry, make of the. The sacking.
- [05:02]
D
It's not really a surprise because we know Evangelist Marinakis is quite a volatile character who is prone to mood swings. He was there last night sitting in the director's box, looking extremely unhappy with Forest performance. So usually when you get those cutaways to Evangelist Marinakis mid game, it only means one thing, that the manager who is in the technical area is not long for this world. So it wasn't, wasn't a shock. I'm not sure it's a very well thought out decision. But then Marinakas tends to fly by the seat of his pants and I suspect Sean Dyche won't be that bothered and he and Woney and Stoney will have a nice day in the pub today and, and, you know, check their bank accounts to see have the, the payments come through.
- [06:04]
B
Yeah, I mean, I. I guess there might still be time for them to get another gig to save somebody else.
- [06:09]
D
That Burnley win at palace was, Was unfortunate for Dice because he could go back to his spiritual home or he might have. There might have been a vacancy at his spiritual home if that. If they hadn't won that game.
- [06:21]
B
That's true. We'll get to that. I mean, there were reports, Johnny, that Marinakis was personally debriefing the team in the dressing room with Sean Dyche inside the room, which you can imagine Dyche would have loved. Dyche, after the game was very quick to point out that statistically they were doing better now than when he arrived. And he said, when we arrived, we were two points above the relegation zone. Now we're three points above the relegation zone, which, I mean, statistically he is right, but it isn't a huge amount above the relegation zone. And I just guess you saw it with Tottenham, there are lots of teams panicking now that they could get relegated because the bottom of the table is incredibly tight.
- [06:58]
C
Yeah, I mean, is that really a statistic, like 3? 3 is more than 2. I guess this is a Deisch style. That's analytics with Sean Deiche, if you look at the graph here. No, I'm being insolent as usual, he's right that they are doing slightly better. I mean, they interviewed Elliot Anderson afterwards and they said it was the, it was the most shots on goal that a Premier League team had had in 10 years without scoring. And they told Elliot Anderson this and his face just kind of fell. He's like, yeah, typical. It was that sort of night. It's been that sort of season for, for Forest and you know, you may well ask what is the, what is the. Through thread? What is the. The common line from, from Nuno to, To Ange Postecoglou to Dyche to. To very possibly Vitor Pereira. And of course Forest are one of those clubs where they don't have a defined style of play, they don't have a, a footballing identity beyond Marinakis. It's one of those unusual football clubs where the owner is basically the, the, the defining style of the club and whatever side of the is, I imagine, massive king size bed he gets out on in the morning defines the direction of that football club that day. And you know, he's right, he's right to be worried that the football is terrible. The football has been terrible. But you know, you kind of have to ask what were you expecting with Sean Dyche when, when you appoint him? But also the fact that that sort of 13th to 18th area in the Premier League has really kind of concertinated. If you, if you look at the, the way that West Ham have kind of recovered in the last few weeks, almost brings to mind that 0203 season when it was West Ham who went down with 42 points. I think if you look at it, Burnley and Wolves probably adrift. You then have a load of teams competing for 18th spot. And it is quite possible that if they carry on, on their current rate that the team in 18th could still end up with about a point a game. You could have someone going down on 38, maybe even 40 points. So that brings teams like, you know, Leeds Spurs, Forest, you know, maybe even palace into the, into the mix if, if West Ham keep improving. So that's, that's why I think we're getting a lot of itchy trigger fingers because there are a lot of teams who maybe thought they were safe are now realizing, hang on, we're not the.
- [09:30]
B
YouTube viewers excited to have the Loo family in the background. Our listeners don't get that pleasure. But you can watch us if you like. Will do. We think Vito Pereira is a good choice to come in. You know, he did really well at Wolves when he came in, didn't he?
- [09:44]
A
He's got a few things going for him that he did have an immediate impact at Wolves when he came in that turned them around very quickly. Won the first game away at Leicester, so shows he can change things at speed. And then on top of that, he's worked with Marinakis before, which is helpful for someone to understand what they're getting into, which some people don't always. And he plays the right formation, I think. You know, I suspect he'll play with what he's got with the 4, 2, 3, 1. I think he'll utilize that. You know, he does have the Premier League. He is a good man, manager. He gets the best out of people. You know, he's very likable, as Wolves fans will tell you. You know, I don't know which pub he'll drink in in Nottingham. I think. Yeah, that'll be interesting to find out in the coming weeks. I've got the text messages to prove it last week. It's like if they do sack him, it'll be Pereira because he was the obvious person to bring in. Possibly also being indoctrinated by watching too much Forest and knowing how they work over recent years that this would be the outcome. So, yeah, I think it's probably the most sensible choice if you're going to have a fourth manager of the season. But I mean, good luck to him. I mean, just as a further point, obviously I got in at half past midnight. I didn't see my daughter yesterday, but I kicked her out at 20 past seven to go to Breakfast Club just so I didn't have to deal with what Johnny's dealing with because that looks terrible. She came in this morning. Oh, Daddy, I missed you. Get out. I'm writing about Vitor Pereira being appointed at Nottingham Forest. Do you not understand?
- [11:17]
B
Just on the game, Barry, it is worth pointing out there is that amazing still image of that moment where Forrest had a six on one and didn't score. It's an amazing moment in a football match.
- [11:26]
D
It was fantastic. It reminded me of that scene from Game of Thrones, the Battle of the Bastards, when Jon Snow is sitting alone on his horse in front of the massed ranks of Ramsay Bolton's army. And he. They're charging towards him at full gallop and he just draws his sword. And in this instance, Hugo Bueno was in the Jon Snow road with these six Forest players charging towards him at full pace. Callam Odson Adois pinged in a low cross. I mean, he couldn't fail to pick out a teammate but unfortunately for him game, he picked out Lorenzo Luca, who somehow managed to shank the ball over the bar and over the roof of the stand, out of the stadium into the River Trent. On any other night, you presume Forest would have won that game very comfortably indeed. But the finishing last night was atrocious. They missed so many good chances. Wolves had a few chances of their own as well and could have possibly nicked it. Matthias Mane had a decent, reasonably good chance towards the end and shot straight at Stefan Ortega. But. But for us, yeah, they should have won, yeah, by a loss.
- [12:41]
B
And if they win by a lot, then Dice presumably is still there, which is, you know, that is the, that's the way of this, isn't it? To spurs, then we might as well do the sackings altogether. The statement says the club's taken the decision to make a change in the men's head coach position and Thomas Frank will leave today. Results and performances have led the board to conclude the that a change at this point of the season is necessary. He was there for eight months. After seven games, spurs were third two points behind Arsenal. They'd beaten Man City away. Since then, only Bernie and Wolves have picked up fewer points than them. In nine games, no wins, two wins in 18. Frank has the lowest points per game average of any Tottenham manager in Premier League history. They are overperforming their XG and their worst games under him they generated 0.1 XG at home to Chelsea and 0.07 away at Arsenal. Johnny, your thoughts?
- [13:30]
A
Yeah.
- [13:30]
C
It didn't work, did it? I mean, you know, tried, failed miserably. Send him, pack him off with a rifle, send him off to Greenland, send him back to Borgon, I'd say. Yeah, I know a lot of people were saying this, this, you know, this was a pragmatic, it was a pragmatic appointment. After the, after the madness of. And postochol, you know, we got, we got a nice sensible, let's get a nice sensible Scandinavian man in. And I don't honestly think the decision was any more thought through than that. I really don't think Tottenham put any more thought into it. Levy liked the analytics, he liked the data, the underlying data. But the transposition of Frank from Brentford, which is a very well run club with a very well defined structure, basically it's Benham, it's the owner, it's the director of football and then it's Frank and the lines of authority are very clear. Spurs, it's a lot more. They are very much going in through a period of boardroom transition, you know, they've lost a sporty director. We've had the. We've had the departure of Levy.
- [14:32]
B
We have.
- [14:32]
C
We have. We basically now have an executive that is basically trying to learn football on the fly. There are no lines of authority, really. Everyone's still trying to learn out where the lines of authority are. And this doesn't excuse any of the football, which has been awful. But I think, as well as being too big for him in a stature sense, I think the job was physically too big for Thomas Frank. You know, he would turn up. There's a great piece by Miguel Delaney in the Independent. There were things that he was expected to do at spurs that were just handled for him. At Brentford, the job was literally was physically just. There were duties that he didn't realise he was going to have to do.
- [15:05]
B
Which is weird because Brentford is a smaller club. You'd imagine there'd be more people to do more stuff at top right.
- [15:10]
C
But then, you know, there is. He turns up, he says, who's in charge of the discipline here? And spurs are like, well, it's the manager. The manager's in charge. But, oh, no. But at Brentford we had like, you know, there was somebody on the sporting director, you know, there was something on the performance team who was assigned to this. Like, who's my point of contact on this? Well, we don't really have that kind of thing. And then you get the fact that the football was really bad. And if you try to appoint, I guess not a reactive manager, because I think he did try to play football, but he was also trying to fix a defense. He was basically trying to build from a solid base. And if you do that, you kind of have to win. You kind of have to get results on your side and you have to not keep giving away free headers in the. In the six yard box. I don't know where they go from here. It's a really rotten. It's a really rotten diseased club. And I think Frank has almost kind of. He's. He's a bit damaged goods now. So. So I don't think it's been a move that's. That's been very good for anyone.
- [16:11]
B
There's been interesting. Barry. I don't know if you've seen it like a Brentford fan has done this. It's about four minutes long. Just saying, look what Brentford do, right? They brought in Uwe Rossler. They did well. Rossa did better there than anywhere before. He thought, I'm good at this, went somewhere else, failed. They brought In Mark Warburton, same thing. Didn't have a lot of experience in the championship. He did better than they'd ever done before. He went, oh, I'm good at this. Went to Rangers fail. They're the same with Dean Smith, right, who went to Villa and it didn't really work out. And now Thomas Frank. And so somebody showed this to Keith Andrews. Right. Because that's a really interesting part of the dynamic at Brentford that they have working. That the manager is just cog rather than the whole damn machine.
- [16:53]
D
Yeah, it. It kind of reminds me of Wilson's hero, Valerie Lebonowski. The, the former Dynamo Kiev manager had this wonderful Dynamo Kiev football team and other European teams started signing players from them but the transfers never worked out because they were just small cogs in this incredibly well run Dynamo Kiev machine that couldn't function elsewhere once they were taken out of that machine and put into a different one. And maybe that is the case at Brentford and you know, could be similar Brighton or similarly run club.
- [17:38]
B
We.
- [17:38]
D
We would need to see a greater sample size, I think. I don't think Thomas Frank is a bad manager. I just think he was the wrong fit at Spurs. I thought he would be a good fit but. But clearly he wasn't.
- [17:50]
B
Yeah, I agree. I thought he would be a good fit and I thought the Super Cup. I was like, oh, look, a pragmatic manager. He'll. Kevin Danso has a long throw. This is exciting. We're doing things differently. We're. We're adapting to a better team. And then it sort of ended up being. Actually all they do is Kevin Danso has a long throw and that isn't quite. That isn't quite as good. I mean, look, we talked about Dyche and needing luck, right? If they win last night, it's different. Thomas Frank, a bit like Antipastecogu. He's had loads of injuries, right. He's missed his whole creative force there in Madison and Kulasevsky and you know, other players have been injured. He's got this weird attack and you sort of think is that worth. If that's worked, three wins, say that are defeats at the moment, then you know they're pushing on the door of the Champions League. I don't know. I think you have to be lucky as well as good. And I think he was probably neither Will.
- [18:35]
A
Yeah. Where last night at Forest, every time there was a mischance it went to Marinakis. Every time on Tuesday at Tottenham it went to this collection of injuries. Injured and suspended players sat looking slightly Miserable. And to sort of sum up the issues on the pitch, and I think that is saying every week, obviously post coglies failed, Frank's failed. Maybe the problems are bigger, as Johnny was saying. And the recruitment has always seemed a bit odd. And it is fantastic that you're signing the best young players in Europe and you know, that's your. Your model. And I'm sure Frank was in favor of that. But the balance of those signings never seemed right. The top quality experience. I know Pollini's been there, but he had a good start, but not been pulling up trees since. And the defense has always looked a bit off and problematic when your captain is layering off on social media repeatedly but then getting sent off at the weekend. So I think he has been unlucky. It's quite hard to turn a team around for finishing 17th to become, I don't know, the Champions League team that the club think it should be in such a short period of time. When you're changing tactics, these things take time. And by having those injuries, he's not earned it. You know, similar when the fans go Tuesday night, I was watching the game, it just seemed pretty silent, whatever was happening, apart from the equalizer. And there's no belief. And so those things will count against you as well. And the reason there's no belief, because you're not getting wins. The reason you're getting wins, arguably because you're missing some of your best players. Kudos, Kosovsky, like, these are. These are the players that make things happen. These are players that excite fans as well. And you sort of lack in a bit of that. Chappie Simmons has never, you know, he should be one of those players, but isn't, you know, Solanke missed a long period and I think Frank's probably just been a little bit unfortunate. You can look at his coffee cup with the Arsenal badge on that he'd, you know, brought from home or. And whatnot. But yeah, I think he has just been a bit unlucky in that the problems are far bigger than the dugout and even the injury list.
- [20:44]
C
Arguably, he's done nothing well. Like, there were a few good results at the start, but he hasn't, you know, the attacking data has got off a cliff. The creativity has gone off a cliff. They haven't defended well. He hasn't made good substitutions, really. He hasn't used his squad well. Ultimately, he hasn't spoken very well. I think as a Spurs manager, it's really, really important. This is why Ange was Such a good fit initially, you have to speak well because you have to bridge that incredible gap between expectation and reality. Spurs are a club that has to have a story about it. If spurs is not a story, it's nothing. And Frank had no. No idea of what. What he wanted to be. And I think for a lot of fans, it meant accepting kind of a smaller, sadder, colder place in the world. And I don't think that is what inspires people.
- [21:33]
B
So who should they get? Johnny? They need a. Surely they need a Vibe. They need to win three or four games and then see what happens in the Champions League. So they need, I think, a Vibes person. They need Vibes.
- [21:43]
A
Yeah.
- [21:43]
C
De Zerbi is a name that I like. They obviously, they want Pochettino. I don't think. I don't think Pochettino is the right fit at all. You know, Pochettino 2026 is not the Pochettino of 2014. De Zerbi is what I like because I think he instantly lights a bomb under the whole thing. And you want to see how they're going to play. You know, obviously I think it ends in tears, but all spurs managers, you know, all spurs reigns end in tears. They're like political careers. It's just the journey you can take people on in the. In the meantime.
- [22:15]
B
So what about Ange back? What about, you know, is this totally ludicrous for Vibes? It would be. I mean, it would be amazing.
- [22:22]
C
A lot of fans would have it. I don't think they should have sacked him, by the way. I mean, people, you know, I don't think they should have sacked him after. After winning the Europa League. They should have. You know, they needed to ride that train all the way to the end again. Is it different. Is it different when it. When you come back for a second spell when. When you're almost trying to. To prove yourself, where you're trying to. To prove a few people wrong. Is it. Is it ever right to go back? I don't know, but I think spurs need a manager who can light a bomb under them.
- [22:47]
A
You know, things are bad at a football club when lighting the bomb under it. This will sort it out. We've got the fella from the quarry coming to just sort out, yeah, my room, the house, the roof is leaking. What we're gonna do, sort it out?
- [23:03]
B
No, but they do need somebody who is in the dugout for that Arsenal game that the fans like. Like the fans go, yeah, I want this. You know, everyone has to be on if it's Heighting you. You just go. They're all just go, meh. And you know, Arsenal take the lead after 10 minutes and that'll be.
- [23:18]
A
Oh, God.
- [23:19]
B
Anyway, anyway, more on that and on. That'll do for part. Will do. Burnley's brilliant win at Crystal Palace. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Rich says, look, we are still going down, but can you have a huge shout for us? Somehow scoring three goals in five minutes, it's nice to remember just how much fun football can be. Burnley only the second team to go two down in the first half of Premier League away game and still going ahead at the break after spurs at Newcastle in 1995. You've watched a lot of Burnley this season, Will. Good for you. Did you think they had it in them?
- [23:57]
A
No, absolutely not. Two nil down. I think they've had some positive performances that haven't led to results, especially in recent weeks. But I think in the past couple of games, the West Ham game, they were pretty awful. Absolutely terrible. And it looked like, I'd say that they'd gone mentally that this season's over, we can't compete at this level. And going 2 nil down away at Palace, a team who have done well in the past, but not having a great season, you'd have thought maybe this is the end, but change things up in the last couple of games. I think Hannibal playing is to add a bit of fire into what can be quite a passive team at times because he's a bit of a headless chicken often, but he showed great composure for his goal like any headless chicken would.
- [24:53]
B
That's what was known. What we know about headless chickens is composure.
- [24:56]
A
It shows the variety that Burnley have available. Jay De Nancey is a really good championship player, which there's no shame of that. And he can on his day perform for the 19th best club in the Premier League. You saw what it meant to park at the end. You know, he's not always the most animated person on touchline, but he probably enjoyed the celebration, you know. And the, the other thing about it, it's fine having that five minute period where everything's going really well, but did manage to hang on for a whole 45 minutes.
- [25:27]
B
You really thought you were just waiting for palace to equalize, you know, just kind of got corner after corner. Later on you're like, oh, this is. This is never going to end well. And it did.
- [25:35]
A
Yeah, Joe Worrell in there, you know, a bit more experience, you know, amid the headless chickens, you know, quite sensible because I think you know, walkers looked suspect in recent weeks. You saw for the opener, you know, got done by Strand Larson.
- [25:48]
C
I want to stick up for the headless chicken. I. I want to stick up for the head, you know, what other animal can you chop the head off and it's still walking around. Are they walking around like headless chicken? That's a miracle.
- [25:58]
B
Still doing a job.
- [25:58]
C
Miracle.
- [25:59]
B
The lower reaches of the Premier League.
- [26:01]
A
Do die quite quickly though. I mean, it's not like they don't sort of carry on, do they? I mean, I'm sure there were. I'm pretty sure there's still.
- [26:07]
C
Impressive.
- [26:07]
D
Yeah, obviously I. I have decapitated quite a few chickens in my life and I have never seen one run around after losing its head.
- [26:18]
B
That's your. You're just such a cold blooded killer, Barry, aren't you? When you do the job, you get it done. What's your. What's your kill count? Do you reckon on chicken?
- [26:27]
D
My chicken body count? I'd say it's in the high hundreds. Wow.
- [26:33]
B
I suppose you lose feeling after the first few.
- [26:36]
D
First one's the hardest, Max.
- [26:38]
C
Do you. Do you ring or is it. Is it a. Do you have an implement?
- [26:43]
A
God.
- [26:45]
D
Just to be clear, I'm not some sort of bloodthirsty murderer who doesn't kicks. I was working on a friend's chicken farm for a couple of weeks.
- [26:55]
B
When was your last kill, Larry?
- [26:57]
D
Would have been 40 years ago, probably.
- [27:01]
B
Wow. So you were doing it as an 11 year old or something?
- [27:04]
A
Yeah.
- [27:05]
D
12. 12, I reckon. 12 or 13.
- [27:07]
B
That's no age to. To start people decapitating chickens, really, is it? I don't know.
- [27:14]
A
Does it? Does sound like the first chapter of a.
- [27:17]
B
Of a true crime story, doesn't it?
- [27:21]
D
Well, Max, when you're on, when you were having your Thai green curry or your kfc, those chickens didn't jump into the pot voluntarily. Someone had to get them there.
- [27:30]
A
Yeah, small children's child slave labor getting into your plate.
- [27:35]
C
Running around like an Oliver Glasner defense.
- [27:37]
B
Exactly. Has Barry killed more chickens than James Milner's made Premier League appearances? Asked producer Joel. It's hard to say. Up to. What was he up to now? 653. Maybe Milner's got it. But listen, you know, Milner won't go on forever. Barry could go back to killing chickens. We're gonna have to keep a totalizer, aren't we? Burnley couldn't get out of this Barry, could they?
- [27:59]
D
No.
- [28:00]
B
Okay. No chance. Nine points off Forest.
- [28:05]
D
They only played well for 10 minutes yesterday.
- [28:11]
B
Do you feel for Jorgenstrand Larson Baz? Because you know, bit like Brennan Johnson but perhaps even worse, you know he suddenly he's left Wolves. Everything is fine. Look, I just there, I kick it, I head it, it goes in. This is fine. Football is easy and then it isn't.
- [28:27]
D
Yeah, it's a signer, isn't it for him? Oliver Gagner was interesting talking afterwards. He was, he basically accused his players of having gone 2 nil up. Sort of trying to show off and playing like they were having a kick about in the park or playing with your kids in the garden. But he was quick to stress, obviously you don't tackle your children when you're playing with them in the garden. But there weren't too many tackles going in from palace players eyes. They were losing 50, 50s. They were giving the ball away. And yeah it was a good mugging by Burnley. But if I would be astonished if they kick on and go on a, a long winning run from here. But who knows.
- [29:12]
A
Yeah.
- [29:12]
B
So eight points clear of the relegation zone. Palace, you know, they know Glasner's going Johnny. But like they could get dragged down to it. You know they are sort of playing badly enough. They always had that massive win against Brighton. But really you know, that is one sort of bright spot in a very poor run. And there's a. There's, you know, there's chaos at that club.
- [29:30]
C
I think they'll, they'll just about be okay. I think there are just about enough goals in that team, just enough creativity. But what, what happens is, I mean they've had, they've been through hell this season on and off the pitch. And what happens, I think when a team starts to really flag is that they, you know, they still score goals because people like, people like scoring goals. What tends to slip is the organization, the spacing, the last ditch, the bodies on the line stuff. And that's how I think you end up conceding three goals in 10 minutes. And I think there is a physical and mental exhaustion to them which I think is a product of everything they've been through this season. I think they will just be about fine. But they are flagging quite badly.
- [30:14]
B
Villa won. Brighton nil. Matthew says don't do the pod until Brighton sack. Fabian Herzler. Really big. Three points for Villa. Especially with Chelsea. Manchester United dropping points on Tuesday. They are what, eight points clear of Liverpool in sixth. If we presume fifth will get you in the Champions League. But Baz, one win in 13 for Brighton.
- [30:32]
D
Yeah, they're having a bad Season. I think Brighton fans are making no secret of the fact that they're not happy. This wasn't a good game, but Villa did just enough to win it. Ming's header kind of went in off Jack Hinchel would have a late corner. I think Villa should probably have had a penalty as well. Some one of the Brighton players, I can't remember who blatantly shoved Tammy Abraham. Yeah, but that led to a corner and it was that corner they scored from, I think. So they got their just desserts in the end. But I suppose the main talking point from this game is James Milner equaling Gareth Barry's record number of Premier league appearances on 653. So congratulations to him. No doubt he will go on to beat the record. And why I don't want to take anything away from what is a brilliant achievement from Milner, who I have a lot of admiration for. I remember making his debut as a 16 year old. But the disparity in the number of minutes both players have played is enormous. So Gareth Barry has played almost 14,000 more minutes in the Premier League than Milner, which is the equivalent of about 155 matches. And I have noticed a lot of Villa fans are a bit chippy about the fact that Milner is going to take Garrett's record because Gareth has played so much more than or spent so much more time on the pitch with him. But phenomenal achievement from ball players. I don't like Gareth Barry purely because he missed a sitter for Villa one time years and years ago. That cost me a lot of money in my coupon. A coupon busting miss at the death. I think it was a penalty actually he missed. But anyway, so I'm. I'm in team Milner on this one.
- [32:24]
B
Well, he was so tired after all those minutes, wasn't it? Good of you to bring an interesting fact before your 16 interesting facts. But we'll get to them.
- [32:31]
D
I feel we may not get through all 16.
- [32:33]
B
Well, can try our very.
- [32:35]
D
Might have to do a bonus track.
- [32:37]
B
Okay, fine. To the top of the table then, man. City are now three points behind Arsenal having played a game more. Arsenal playing Brentford tonight, of course. They beat Fulham 3 nil. 3 nil up at Halim. This looked like a sort of classic Manchester City, I think. Well, I mean Fulham had a couple of breaks, didn't they? But apart from that, this was City playing good football, exciting football. Lots of players involved in the goals. And I don't know if this means they're going to start one of Those runs, but it's exactly what they needed to do.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah, and obviously you look at Semenyo scoring lots of different types of goals. That's five now for City already. It's always difficult in the January market to sign players and it probably cost you a bit more money than you want to pay. But the role of those players is to instigate change to ignite a season. And you look at Gay, you look at Semenya, they're doing that, you know, the change in how City played, they're looking a bit more solid at the back, they're looking more aggressive in the final third and that's really helping City. You know, you talk about the good play, but the intensity in the press, which I think sometimes lacks when things aren't going well for City, that, you know, that wasn't the case. Everyone was on top of Fulham making them, you know, make mistakes at the back and things like that. And, you know, Haaland scoring from open play is always useful. And, you know, even when he's not been scoring, you see how well he takes that goal. It's really impressive. Foden maybe should have been said off for Ralph, a nasty foul or Calvin Bassi, but on the upside did look a bit more back to himself, a bit more lively, a bit more creative when he was on the ball so he can gloss over the old red card.
- [34:16]
B
Well, actually, I don't want to because it is just such Johnny, a frustration with Var. When you look at that and you're like, how all we want is consistency.
- [34:24]
C
Brian, you know, humans aren't consistent and football is a game of a million subjectivities where no scenario ever actually perfectly recurs twice. It's not a closed system game, so you can't have consistency. There's always going to be a subjective opinion. Is someone interfering with play, Is someone attempting to play the ball? The whole idea that you can get consistency, it's just nonsense. It's the sort of thing people like to spout on. I was going to say talksport. I forgot you both work for Talksport.
- [34:54]
B
Hang on, it's not subjective that he raped the guy's ankle and that's his ankles, is it? I mean, that is.
- [34:59]
C
No, but the. What's objective is, you know, the judgment over, you know, level of force, level of aggression. These are kind of value judgments.
- [35:08]
D
Well, in the big consistency versus common sense debate in this game, Kenny Tette pulled Antoine Semenya's deadlocks and didn't get sent off, whereas Michael Keane got sent off for Doing the exact same thing to Tolo Arikadere, the Wolves player. So you could argue neither should have been sent off or both should have been sent off but one was, the other wasn't. I don't really care one way or the other but it just different officials have a different opinion of what constitutes a red card offence.
- [35:43]
A
Just the other thing on on City in recent weeks that Peps decide that Rodri really can't play that defensive midfield role by himself. There's lots of extra support in there which is really helping him and quite a pragmatic move from Guardiola which you probably don't want to make do. But you know, O'Reilly's look really good in there. Bernardo Silver being in central positions is really helpful and a sign that you know, this is how City are going to play. Look a bit more formidable, bit sturdier in that position. So they're not suffering on the counter as much they have been recently. I know Rodri did try to pull someone back when Fulham did count at one point because that seems to me his go to move at the moment. But it's a good sign for City that maybe they've accepted their own flaws and moved to correct them rather than being a bit headstrong potentially they have been in the past expecting Rodri to get back to Ballon d' or winning ways very quickly when it's quite difficult after ACL is over injuries in recent months.
- [36:41]
B
So the Stadium of Light. Sunderland's first home defeat of the season in the league. They lost 1 nil to Liverpool. They missed Granit Xhaka a lot and actually Barry, Liverpool played really well in this game and should have won more comfortably probably.
- [36:52]
D
Yeah. This was ostensibly a 90 minute sumo wrestle between Ibrahima Konate and Brian Brobie with a football match taking place around it and Liverpool were the vastly superior team. Florian Verse was brilliant again. Sunderland defended well. Liverpool had to rely on a corner to score from Virgil Van Dijk. But I don't think the scoreline reflected Liverpool's superiority. Certainly no shame in this defeat for Sunderland. And as you say they are really missing Granite Jacket just for his qualities as a player. But I think more so his, his qualities as a leader and surrogate head coach on the pitch because I, I thought Sunderland were a bit meek last night. I, I thought they could have done more going forward. It's basically a free hit for the them. You know, this game doesn't matter if they lose. I thought they could have done a bit more on the attacking front. Sadly For Liverpool and for Wataro Endo he suffered a really bad ankle injury in that cursed right back position for Liverpool he was filling in last night and he, I think he overstretched for a ball and really did his ankle a mischief but he, it led to a corner. He, he got back to his feet and played on far the corner and then went down and, and went off on a stretcher and you'd imagine that is probably bye bye World cup for Wataro which is, is sad.
- [38:29]
B
Liverpool then in sixth with 42 points. Chelsea have 44 in fifth. Manchester United 45 in fourth. Johnny, how do you see that sort of the race for fifth place going?
- [38:40]
C
It's an interesting one. I think these things are so, they're so dependent or the way they feel is so dependent on short term form that you know it's easy to get to get swayed by a couple of results. I think you know Liverpool really, really ground that out tonight. If, if that's the Liverpool we're going to see between now and the end of the season I, I don't think they'll have any problems. It was a, it was almost a kind of, it was a win out of, out of last season's playbook. It was controlled and mature and measured. Like how many times this season have we not, have we seen them not close those sorts of games out? I think Liverpool, I would have Liverpool in my top five obviously Arsenal and City as well. I do worry about Villa. You know I know they've got, you know they've had some crucial wins recently and they've shown a kind of resolve. But I just, you know, especially with Europe as well and the comparative thinness of that squad when you put them up against the likes of United and Chelsea. I do wonder whether they're going to have enough in the last sort of 10, 12 games to scrape together enough points. I think they are going to get caught out. So yeah, I mean it's not a bold prediction but I'd say the five richest clubs in the league will probably be the top five.
- [39:51]
B
All right, that'll do for part two. Part three we'll talk about big Sir Jim Ratcliffe and we'll do an FA cup preview. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Martin says should Michael Carrick during pre or post match press conferences be asked for his opinions on what his boss has said about immigrants and then colonizing the uk? Delta says how much tax has Jim Ratcliffe avoided evaded since moving to Monaco? Simon, I'd just like to hear Johnny Liu Eviscerate Jim Ratcliffe, the tax dodging bigot. Yeah, he said an interview with Sky News. You can't have an economy with 9 million people on benefits and huge levels of immigrants coming in. I mean, the UK has been colonized. It's costing too much money. The UK has been colonized by immigrants really, hasn't it? The population of the UK was 58 million in 2020. Now it's 70 million. That's 12 million people. The Office for National Statistics estimates the population of the UK was in fact 67 million in 2020 and 70 million in mid 2024. Keir Starmer said the comments were offensive and wrong. Britain is a proud, tolerant and diverse country. Jim Ratcliffe should. Would you like to eviscerate Big Sir Jim?
- [41:00]
A
Jonny?
- [41:01]
C
No, no, no, no, not at all. I just. What was it? Was it Sunday, Saturday, after the spurs game, some Sky Sports news guy asks Michael Carrick about. Who was that? First question that you read out, I don't know who sent that in, but basically Carrick gets asked about the guy who's having that, who's growing his hair. And he said, I'm really sorry I have to ask this. Obviously he's been told by his, you know, I need to, I have to ask you about the haircut. And Michael Carrick gets asked about the haircut. Bruno Fernandes gets asked about the. Mateus Kun has been asked to get asked about the haircut. The guy who's not having his haircut. Now will those people, will those interviewers have the same courage to ask all of these same players about the views of their, the part owner of the club about a sport and an organization which would fall over without immigrant labor. Premier League collapses. Football collapses without immigrants. And that's not even the point. You know, the point is that Jim Ratcliffe has, you know, he's very clearly always thought this, you know, I don't. Has there ever been a point in his adult life where Jim Ratcliffe hasn't been a fucking prick? Probably not. I think it is interesting the fact that he does feel emboldened to say this stuff now. You know, we all know how. We all know how wrong it is. We all know how toxic it is and he knows how toxic it is. That's the point. It's a kind of vice signaling and it's saying the nasty thing in order to create almost a kind of a toxic personal brand because you think that's what's going to be best for your own interests, whether they be business interests or political interests. And it is a reflection of the climate that we're in politically in terms of where people feel emboldened to talk about this stuff. I think it's racist, it's illiterate, it's. It's basically illiterate about the entire, you know, a basic illiteracy about the history of humanity and the. And this country and its society and its people. And again, he knows all that because he's not thick. He's a prick, but he's not, he's not thick, so he knows what he's doing. And I think it's going to need Manchester United fans and it's going to need the wider footballing public. And I think, you know, I. It's going to need someone like, you know, players and coaches to speak up and say, we don't, we don't believe this. And whether they have the courage to do that, whether they have the balls to be able to speak up to their employer when there is something very clearly wrong. Being spoken, I think is going to be a big test of, of their moral. Moral fiber.
- [43:35]
B
Well said. And I agree with every word of it.
- [43:37]
D
You know that cartoon with Rupert Murdoch, the blue collar worker and the immigrants sitting around the table? Murdoch has a big plate of cookies in front of him. The worker has a plate with one cookie in it and the immigrant has nothing in front of him.
- [43:53]
A
And.
- [43:53]
D
And Rupert Murdoch says to the. The builder, careful, mate, that guy wants to take your cooking. It's that wrought to life.
- [44:00]
B
Yeah.
- [44:01]
D
The weird thing is, Sir Jim Ratcliffe is not only happy to accept hundreds of millions of pounds in benefits from the British government for his companies, but he appears to feel entitled to them. So. Yeah, but Johnny pretty much nailed it, hasn't he?
- [44:17]
B
Yeah, just on the haircut guy. He is donating the hair to the Little Princess Trust, which is an amazing charity that makes wigs out of people's hair for. Mainly for young people, but for. For anyone who has lost their hair because of chemotherapy or alopecia or other things. And, you know, for a lot of people, that's, you know, can be an incredibly difficult thing to happen when you're going through all sorts of difficult things. So I think he's raised a few thousand pounds for the charity event and he's going to donate his hair. And I spoke to the chief executive of that charity on the radio yesterday, and it's an amazing charity doing amazing things. So, you know, that is a force for good. They're called the Little Princess Trust.
- [44:58]
C
Apparently the longer the hair, the more Useful.
- [45:01]
A
It is.
- [45:02]
C
Yeah. So the worse, the worst magistrate you do, the better it is for those children.
- [45:06]
B
Yeah, that is. That is. Well, I think it's now of a length where they will accept the hair. The hair. I'm with my sort of thinning gray hair. That's no use. But if it's a certain length. But there are lots of people, I think it has to be 10 inches of hair or something. So mainly sort of women who are growing their hair. You know, actually quite a lot of people donate a lot of hair to this charity. So it's a good thing. Go and check it out.
- [45:28]
C
I've written a column about the. The haircut guy today if anyone wants to go check it out on the website.
- [45:32]
B
Okay, good. I' written a column about maybe Anne should come back. But I don't really mean it, but it would be fun. Anyway, I read that if you want to. Come on. Here we go, Barry. Fact by fact. FA cup preview. We've got five minutes, Johnny. Will, you can chime in as and when you want. Do you want me to read a fixture and you give me the fact, Barry, should we do that?
- [45:49]
D
If you like, yeah.
- [45:50]
B
Okay. As they came out of the hat, Hull City that will play Chelsea.
- [45:55]
D
Well, this is the Lemur senior derby, isn't it? Chelsea have played Hull eight times in the FA cup and beaten them every time.
- [46:03]
B
Thank you so much.
- [46:04]
A
I promised Joel that I would tell this story because I think enough time has passed. But I am the reason that Liam Racinha is Chelsea head coach.
- [46:13]
B
Okay, here we go.
- [46:14]
A
So a few years ago, hall sacked their manager, whoever it was, and they were going to appoint a new head coach. He went to a game, he went around the training ground. It was all looking rosy. I was on holiday in the Algarve and I got a phone call from this manager and he goes, what do you think of Hul? So we have a good 10 minute chat and whatnot and he goes, right, okay, I've got to get. I'm at the airport, I've got to go home. And then a few hours later it's announced that deal wasn't going ahead and Liam Racing comes in to take the job. And that set him on his way to stardom.
- [46:49]
C
I like how Barry said, I'm gonna come up with a fact for every. And he does his first fact and immediately Will comes in with a better fact.
- [46:57]
B
Yeah, well, you gotta do this for all of them.
- [46:59]
A
Yeah.
- [46:59]
B
Do you have an anecdote for each game? Here we go. Let's try Wrexham versus Ipswich Barry.
- [47:04]
A
I have interviewed Nathan Broadhead this season who has played for both Repsom and Ipswich.
- [47:11]
D
Wrexham are unbeaten across their last nine home matches in the FA cup dating back three years.
- [47:19]
B
Not that fascinating. Burton versus West Ham Barry.
- [47:21]
D
This is the first ever meeting between these two sides in any competition ever in the history of football.
- [47:29]
A
I can't compete with that.
- [47:30]
B
Norwich versus West Brom.
- [47:31]
D
My interesting fact about this tie is that it's the only one of the 16 games being played this weekend that I couldn't come up with an interesting fact about.
- [47:43]
B
It's the Graham Dorrance Derby, surely. Southampton vs Leicester.
- [47:47]
A
Barry.
- [47:48]
D
This will be the team's second meeting in four days and Leicester will be hoping to win their 8th 4th round tie out of 10.
- [47:57]
B
Burnley. Mansfield.
- [47:58]
A
As of last Saturday, Burnley had only sold 8000 home tickets for this game and Mansfield had sold 5000 for the away end. And it's only 10 quid a pop.
- [48:08]
D
Mansfield have lost 17 of their 18 FA cup games against top flight opposition.
- [48:13]
B
All right, they're up against it. What about Port vale? Bristol City?
- [48:16]
D
First meeting since 2015 and first ever meeting in the FA Cup Cup.
- [48:22]
B
Lovely Man City. Salford City. Hope Joel put some music under this.
- [48:27]
D
Yeah. Salford are playing in the in the fourth round for the first time in their history.
- [48:33]
B
Good luck to them. Yeah. Class of 92 versus City. That's the.
- [48:37]
D
And they also played Man City last season in the cup and lost 8 nil.
- [48:40]
B
If I remember correctly, Righty H. Aston Villa. Newcastle.
- [48:44]
D
In five of the previous six seasons these sides have met in the cup. It has either been in the final or the winners have got to the final.
- [48:53]
A
Liverpool.
- [48:53]
C
Brighton.
- [48:54]
D
This will be the seventh FA cup tie between the teams and the score is currently 33 on aggregate.
- [49:00]
B
Birmingham. Leeds.
- [49:01]
D
Leeds have reached the fourth round in each of the last four seasons as many times as they'd managed in the previous 19 seasons combined.
- [49:09]
B
Grimsby Town versus Wolves.
- [49:11]
D
Oh, this is a good one. Now this is my favorite fun fact.
- [49:14]
B
Okay, here we go. Here we go, ladies and gentlemen.
- [49:16]
D
Grimsby are playing their third opponent whose name begins with W in this season's FA Cup. They've already played Wheelstone and Western Super Mare. And if they win, they will join Fulham and Southampton in being the only three teams to knock out. Three teams beginning with double the letter W in one season.
- [49:39]
A
Wow.
- [49:40]
B
Imagine if they got Wigan in the next round. They'd have to win at Arsenal to that fact in a second. But I'm doing it in order. Stoke. Fulham.
- [49:46]
D
Fulham have won each of their last seven cup ties against teams from a lower division. But Stoke have won each of their last five home FA cup ties against teams from London. So something has to give.
- [49:58]
B
Something's got to give. Clive. Oxford Sunderland.
- [50:00]
D
The last time Sunderland played Oxford in the FA cup they got to the final and that was in 1992.
- [50:07]
B
Arsenal. Wigan.
- [50:08]
D
Michael Arteta scored in the penalty shootout as Arsenal won the semi final in the only previous FA cup tie between these two sides.
- [50:17]
B
Interesting. And finally, Macclesfield versus Brentford.
- [50:19]
D
If Macclesfield win this, they will become the first non league team to knock out two top flight sides in one season since Millwall 112 years ago.
- [50:29]
B
Thank you so much Barry.
- [50:30]
D
Yeah, I've would also like to thank thank you Opta.
- [50:33]
B
Yeah, and that's the closest to AI this podcast has ever got. Maybe that is the future. Thank you to everyone who commented on my toothbrushing technique in yesterday's video voice note accusing me of swallowing toothpaste or brushing too hard. I was doing a voice note.
- [50:50]
D
Yeah, I, I found that unseemly. This toothpaste swallowing, you know, spitting is.
- [50:55]
B
Also unseemly on a voice note, isn't it? So maybe I should have just not been. I mean because I like it was a bit affected. I wasn't brushing my teeth when the I started brushing my teeth in the video. Then I started videoing, you know, just a peep behind the curtain of how this is all made. But you know we welcome all feedback and that'll do for today. Thanks everybody. Thank you Will.
- [51:15]
A
Thank you Max.
- [51:15]
B
Thanks Johnny.
- [51:16]
C
Hey, thanks for having me.
- [51:17]
B
Thank you Baz. Thank you for the Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back on Monday.
- [51:28]
A
This is the garden. The end.