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Football Weekly
Fulham fell Forest and who’s top of the tree around Europe? – Football Weekly
00:52:26
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Lars Sivertsen and Philippe Auclair to wrap up the big stories from around Europe as their winter breaks begin.
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A
This is the Guardian.
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B
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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. It was the night before, the night before Christmas and the listeners demanded an hour dissecting all the action from Fulham 1, Nottingham Forest nil. If for some reason we don't manage that, we'll have a little Euro catch up. Bayern running away with it in Germany, Barca leading the way in Spain I, while Alonso holds on a very tight race in Italy. And PSG not top of Ligue 1. Then we'll ask why Patrick Motsepe is changing the Africa cup of nations to just once every four years. Is it good for the game or is it good for one of Gianni's mates? All that plus some top 100 feedback. Your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning.
- [01:26]
D
Hello.
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E
Hi, Max.
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A
Welcome. Lars Ibison.
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F
Hello.
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A
And Bon Joseph Philippe Clair.
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D
Max.
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E
Yes.
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A
So let's start then with Monday Night Football. Not a classic, you know. I don't know. We'll go down the annals of history. Will we remember it tomorrow? Fulham won. Forest nil. Yes. Well, you said it. Fulham up to 13th, forest down to 17th. Settled by a penalty. Who wants to, who wants to kick off? Baz. Go on then, give us your best.
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E
I stopped watching this game after 65 minutes because I could not take any more and I wanted to watch the darts. So I have since gone back to look at the highlights and I noticed the highlights package on sky was 2 minutes and 42 seconds long. And I was thinking, God, the last 25 minutes must have been really, really good.
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D
Because.
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E
It certainly wasn't 2 minutes and 42 seconds worth of highlights in the first 65 minutes. But yeah, it was a dreadful game. It was so bad that even Sha D says afterwards it was a low level game, quality wise, really terrible. Chances at at a premium. That means few and fair between, doesn't it? At a premium.
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A
I can remember it does, yes.
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E
Chances at a premium, few laundry, long range efforts From Morgan, Gibbs, White, Tom Carney, Sassalukic, I think that all went wide. And the goal that settled it was a penalty from Raul Jimenez. Interestingly, the penalty was given for precisely the same foul that Tierno Barry didn't get one for in Everton's game against Arsenal. The Salibo kick at the back of the leg.
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D
In this.
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E
In this instance, Douglas Louise kicked Kevin on the back of the leg as he was trying to stretch for the ball. Penalty was given. Raul Jimenez scored. It's his 11th Premier League penalty out of 11. That puts him level with Yaya Toure, I think, on highest number of Premier League penalties without missing. And I was so bereft of anything to talk about in this game. I went just looking for Raul Himz's general penalty record.
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A
All right.
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E
He has scored 42 penalties for CF America in Mexico, Benfica, Wolves, Fulham and Mexico. He has only missed 2. 1. His most recent miss was in 2020 while playing for Wolves against Sevilla in the Europa League. And that is all I have to say about Fulham won, not Forest, nil.
- [04:12]
F
Interjector reassured Barry that after the 65th minute, there were two shots in the game. So after your decision to sort of pivot to darts, you very literally didn't miss anything. And I was trying so hard because I knew this was like the only Premier League game we had to work on for this pod. So it's got to be something here. It's got to be something. Don't think there was anything. I only just kind of think I came away from watching that, thinking, at least I'm not one of the people who paid £85 to be sat in the riverside stand at Craven Cottage to watch it, which was the ticket price for this very, very highly anticipated matchup with Nottingham Forest. There's been a lot of chat online about the value of tickets over the last week vis a vis the World cup and whatever. I think even the most unhinged American economists cannot argue that there was any kind of value to be had, whatever the demand may have been. £85 for this was not good value for anyone.
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E
I mean, the thing about the riverside stand is it's beside the river, so there is a nice view of the Thames if you leave your seat and go and look out the other side of the sand.
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A
Yeah, I suppose that does imply that the football is. The football is sort of. I think the football is often incidental to what you're paying for, really. I mean, I. I'm. I'm not trying to mount a case for the defense for this game.
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F
I think it was more incidental in this game than it usually is. But I understand what you're saying.
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D
The best view, actually is when you're walking on the other side of the river across the Thames and you see the riverside stand at night, all illuminated. It's absolutely magnificent. It's beautiful and it's free. It doesn't cost a penny. So that would be my advice next time.
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A
So that's where you should have been.
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D
Yes, that's where to be. The one thing though, Max, is that when Raul Jimenez took his penalty, the only thing I could think of is the days of dial up Internet, you know, when things were buffering, it was like Rodri Menez was buffering before he took the pen. It took a long time. I mean, he started from outside the box, then he did a kind of curve, like giant slalom and then he stuttered.
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E
But doesn't he wait for the keeper to move? So.
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D
Yeah, took a while. Yeah.
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F
I guess if we're trying to be non facetious for a second. Kind of a nice win for Fulham. I mean, they were all the way down in 15th, I think, before this Iwobi, Basse and Chikwesi had gone to afcon. Yeah, it's only Forest, but Forest have been going all right recently. I really thought Fulham would struggle to get something from this. And I find this Fulham have become one of those teams that I just don't have anything to say about. And I think that is almost by design. I think Fulham's thing is that they're not exceptional at anything, but they're also not really bad at anything. They're just kind of aggressively 6 out of 10 at absolutely everything that a football team is supposed to do during a game, which keeps them in the division consistently. And. But it just makes it a nightmare to talk about them when you're trying to find anything interesting to say.
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A
And I think, you know, credit to the Football Weekly ultras that are still with us, having an entire panel saying, I have nothing to say about this particular football match. I mean, I went on the list of people who'd scored penalty who've missed just one penalty. Obviously you've got Yo Yo Toure and Raul Jimenez 11 out of 11. Um, but of those that have scored 10 or more, you obviously have Leticia, who famously scored 25 out of 26, and Mark Crossley saved his only one. But others who have an almost perfect record. Danny Murphy got 18 out of 19, Callum Wilson 16 out of 17. James Beattie 16 out of 17. Julian Dix 15 out of 16. I don't know whether Miss is probably still traveling now, isn't it? Cole Palmer, 39 out of 14.
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F
Really did not expect James Beatty's penalty record to come up in this episode or any episode of Football Weekly this year.
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A
And Sack is on 12 out of 13. And then we go, people who've missed more than one. Thierry Henry being the best of 23 out of 25. And I just wonder on that penalty and it shouldn't make a difference because it is the same challenge as Saliba on Barry, but I reckon they're given less often when both people are in feet are in the air than when the foot is planted. And so I, I'm not giving, I'm not giving them a pass for the, the Tierno Barry penalty. But I, that's, that would be my hunch. Why it looks, it looks more penalty even though they both are. Lars, you're wide eyed.
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F
Yeah, no, I'm just agreeing. I'm saying I don't even agree with the assertion that it's the same penalty because foot on the ground, foot in air, different position, foot not same. I would argue.
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A
Well, look, we've done this game, we've done everything we needed to do. You are. Look, let's do a bit of Arsenal. Philippe, since you're here and we haven't chatted you since then, how are you finding this? We were saying yesterday, you know, still winning, but it's sort of, it's a bit stodgy at the moment. And City aren't stodgy.
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D
Yeah, it's a bit painful at times though. I, I'm, I wouldn't be as, as harsh, I think, as, as others have been after the last, the last win, which was complicated, difficult and so forth because I saw, I, I'm really clutching at straws here, actually. So two or three genuine team movements which I thought were absolutely terrific and especially the one which led to Trossard hitting the post, which was absolutely magnificent, to be honest. I think at the moment everybody's crossing fingers that there's not another injury. Everybody is looking at the fixtures which are coming with, I wouldn't say tremulation, but a certain degree of gentle concern because he's going to be absolutely manic. Until, I mean, I was looking at it, I could hardly believe the schedule actually, Max, you know, with all this talk about Boxing Day being cancelled and so forth, which of course it is not. And then you realize, oh my goodness, they're playing on the 31st and the 30th and the 1st. They're doing the 3rd and the 4th. They're playing on the 6th.
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A
And they're playing today. They're playing today.
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D
It's crazy. It's crazy. And I think that's, that's basically what everybody's trying to, to do at the moment at Arsenal. It's just waiting for players to come back and because I do, I do feel like you, that that car in the, in the back mirror is getting closer and closer and closer and looks a little bit faster on the straight, if you see what I mean.
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A
I do, yeah. You wanted to bring up the Van de Ven challenge on Alexander Isak. He's had surgery after Liverpool confirmed that he'd broken his leg. He's successfully underwent surgery on an ankle injury that included fractured fibula. And we talked about it yesterday and there was general agreement that it was just. This is unfortunate and it can be unfortunate, but you had a differing view.
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D
I reacted differently. And, and perhaps it's. It's a cultural difference in as much in, in France, when the incidents like this are reviewed, if there had been a card or something like that, the impact of the foul is also taken into consideration. I don't think we are in any doubt that it is a foul and that if Isak hadn't scored, it would have been a penalty. I think we can all agree on that. But does it constitute serious foul play or not? This is where people. You know, I read what you sent us, Max, that Dale Johnson wrote about the incident and explaining that what he's trying to do is block the ball rather than tackle the player. I personally think that's immaterial. But I also think it's interesting to say that in France, if that had happened and there had been a card and there should have been a card, because whatever happens is horrendously mistimed. The impact of the foul is such that the player would have been banned for a very long time indeed. Which I know is coming from a completely different perspective in as much that the consequence of what you do on the pitch are also taken into account in deciding how you should be punished after the game. Like you would have got. I think you would have got eight to 10 games banned for this. I mean, I'm not saying that he should do this is a very. For me, it felt like a horrible foul at the time and when I watched it on replay, I can understand that some others will feel, nah, he's really trying to block the ball. There you go.
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A
Yeah, I, I don't agree with you. And I'm hoping I'm not just myopic because I'm, you know, I'm a Spurs fan. I thought Ben should have been sent off for his challenge on Kirk, for example, Dale Johnson, who was at ESPN now at the BBC, who is sort of, you know, he's. He's the law's Lars for the Prince generation. But anyway, he says opinions may be influenced by the injury to Isaac, but it does not have to be the result of foul play. It can simply be an unfortunate consequence. It's important to look at how Van De Van makes the challenge, how Isaac comes to sustain the injury. As Isaac releases the shot, Van Der slides in to try and make a block. Crucially, it's his shooting foot that gets injured after he plants it. The foot lands between Van De Ven's legs and that's how the Sweden striker's injury appears to happen. Had Van Den gone through his standing foot or tackled his opponent directly, this would have been a different discussion. But Van Den goes to make a block into the space in front of Isaac. It was a genuine challenge and should not be seen as a red card. I don't know if Lars or Barry have any strong thoughts.
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E
I don't think there was any malice in it. I know that doesn't matter. I. It was a late tackle, but I, I would be inclined to be on your side of the fence, Max. I don't. I think it was a foul. I think if the ball hadn't gone the back of the net, it would have been a penalty. But I don't think Van De Ven would have got anything more than a yellow card. And I was a bit bemused by the fact he didn't get a yellow card. But yeah, I, I think if he was to get a 10 match band for that, it would be incredibly harsh. It's a game of collisions and sometimes accidents happen.
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A
Yeah, I don't even know it's a foul. This is what I think. I watched it a million times.
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E
But he's a foul. He didn't get the ball. He didn't get near the ball and he was late.
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F
Yeah, no, he does, he does slide in in front of him to try to block the ball. Then he catches him with the follow through with the other leg. If the timing is fractionally different and Isak lands like on top of his thigh or something instead of between his legs, then the injury doesn't happen. And I think no one ever talks about this tackle again. So I do think this is coincidence. This is like margins. And I don't. I would concur with the esteemed Mr. Johnson's analysis. And I, I think this thing of judging things by the consequences and not by the action, I'm not a fan of. Because there's so many like fractionally weird things that can happen in the game and we've all seen like really bad injuries happen from completely innocu challenges that happens every year. So that seems like an unhinged way of judging it personally.
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A
Okay, you're unhinged, Philippe. And we will move on to part two.
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F
Not just Philippe, just all of the French. I guess in my line of reasoning.
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D
Here, I was presenting things from a different perspective. And yes, we encourage that the deliberate nature of a particular action on football doesn't actually lead you to this is a foul. This is not a foul. Deliberation has got very little to do with it, unless you actually are trying to punch somebody in the head, of course. But deliberation does not necessarily come into it. But that's a different matter altogether.
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E
It is.
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A
And that'll do for part one. We'll round up the Euro leagues for you in part two.
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E
Foreign.
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A
To part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So we head into winter breaks around pretty much all of Europe. So for listeners that don't follow all those leagues religiously, here is just like a Little roundup for you. La liga Barcelona. Top 46 points from 18 games. Real Madrid have 42. They've won three on the bounce after we had Sidon, who said Alonso was basically gone athletic in third on 37. And then come Villaral Espanol and Real Betis. And I suppose the big story, Lars, is Xabi Alonso is still there and like we all were waiting for him to be fired and even could have been fired before that City game.
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F
I mean, it is wild. It's. It's two defeats in 18, which clearly is sackable form. You know, you can't have that. But he has committed the unspeakable sin. He's committed the unspeakable sin of telling the Real Madrid players what to do. And they don't seem to respond very well to that. So I guess the search is on now for a coach who will coach the team, but without telling the players that they have to run a bit occasionally. Again, stuck in facetious mode now, but it does seem very silly, like they chased him for a fair amount of time, like there was. And it's not like they didn't know that he was the coach who would want to try to implement a kind of system that might ask, tell some of these superstars that actually you have a job to do and you have to do this and if they didn't want that, then they shouldn't have hired him, it seems to me. But you can't just hire a guy because he's got good results and he's Spanish and looks really handsome. Sorry, Baskin looks really handsome. You have to like, do some kind of research on how he works and what his methodology is and how he would fit in. Do you like telling your players what to do or do you like them just kind of swatting around, doing whatever they want? And if it's the telling them what to do thing, then maybe they need someone else.
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D
Sure.
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A
And we've had an example from psg, Philippe in a side that, that finally actually do all the tough bits, the out of possession bits. And I sort of wonder like, how good do you have to be to not do that? Like, football at the elite level is relentless and your fame or whatever counts for nothing. Right. You're playing against really talented people and if you don't do the hard stuff, you're not going to win stuff.
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D
But when did it work for Luis Enrique? It worked once, the equivalent of Vinicius and, oh, they all went to Real Madrid. Kylian Mbappe. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, when they all went. This is when actually the Luis Enrique project really took up. He was able to. I mean, there was the whole situation. Mbappe's last season at PSG was an absolute mess because of the relationship between the player and the club hitting. I mean, it's probably the worst war there's ever been between the player and a club which is actually still being fought in courts and so forth.
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E
And.
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D
And it's only afterwards that he managed to instill that discipline and that ethos into the group of players. You could also argue that PSG's squad has got greater depth than that of Real Madrid, certainly throughout the lines. And I don't think you could compare the two midfields. For example, PSG does have a fantastic midfield, which Real Madrid certainly does not, because they haven't done the work properly when it came to replacing the grand old man, you know, Notreach Kroos and so on. And yeah, I mean, I suppose you can compare that, but the idea that Florentino Perez could possibly ever adopt such a frame of mind comparable to what Nasser Al Khelaifi has done at PSG and decide, you know what, we might give our coach, a manager, a chance this time and he can do what he wants because he might actually be quite good. That is just not going to happen. That's not going to happen. Santa is not going to go down your chimney. Max. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have broken the news.
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A
I don't mind where Mbappe is, but, like, it's really interesting that even he hasn't worked out that he needs to do the like. He is obviously amazing, but is he good enough when you have other really good players that do that, that do the difficult stuff?
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D
He's never done it. He's never done it in his life. It was already a problem when he was at Clairefontaine, he was getting rockets from all his coaches. When he was at Claire Fontaine when he was 11, 12 years old, he couldn't get in the team at Monaco for the same reason, because the guys who were in charge of the U17, U18, U23 said, that guy just won't defend. Then he goes into the team and once he's in the team, that's where the problem starts. Because he scores so many goals and. Which I think is something which should be mentioned, by the way, when you talk about Real Madrid, his stats are just phenomenal this year. You cannot get rid of him, which can be problematic, even if he makes you win an awful lot of games. But the stats are absolutely Incredible. And I wish I had a chance to talk to Tucid about that, because when he arrived at Real Madrid, even though he was scoring and he finished best goal scorer in La Liga in his first season with, I think, the. The biggest total of goals scored by a player in his first season at Real Madrid, which is, you know, pretty amazing considering that he was sharing the task with Rodrigo and with Vinicius, amongst others. And it seems to have shifted completely. The fans seem now to be happy with him and to direct their eye at Vinicius instead. He doesn't look like the guy who should have got the Ballon d' or instead of Rodri, by the way. It always makes me smile when I think of that. But there has been a complete shift when it comes to the dynamics within the players. But, you know, what can you do if you're Xavier Alonso, you're going to tell Kylian Mbappe, who scored something like 28 in 28 this season, are you going to tell him you should cover your left back a little bit more than you're doing right now?
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E
Mbappe has just matched Cristian Arnault Ronaldo's record for scoring 59 goals in a calendar year for Real Madrid, and he's on 29 and 24 this season. So the record also held by Ronaldo is 61 in 54 games in a season. So I think Mbappe.
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D
It should be added that he takes all the penalty kicks and Real Madrid has plenty of them. That's. That's one thing that has been to be taken.
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E
Penalty cakes count as goals.
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D
I. I understand. What I'm saying is that Real Madrid do get loads of penalties and a large, very large proportion of his goals are penalty kicks. This said, they are goals. And he's not quite as good as Raul Jimenez, but he's pretty damn good at taking them as well.
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F
I just think the mad thing is like, would they be sacking Xabi Alonso if they were top of the league? I mean, surely then it becomes too silly to do it. So the fact that they're behind Barcelona is part of the equation here, but they're four points back. So again, it's like it's in the first half season of a new manager who's been brought in big reputation already. As a young man, you want to try to build something and then like six months in, you're four points behind the lead and it's like, oh, no, Musk gets rid of this guy. Like, this is bizarre behavior. And it just kind of, it occurs to me There's a paradox in that the culture around football has never been more focused on the individual than now. You know, there's this obsession with the Ballon d', or, which is weird in a team sport anyway. You have all these sort of social media accounts developed devoted to one player. There's been a lot of talk about the emergence of the player fan rather than the club fan. I think that's. I don't think that's happening that much, but it seems to be a trend. I personally suspect a lot of these social media accounts are kind of run by ad agencies anyway, but I can't prove that. But anyway, there seems to be a lot of. Yeah, the hero worship is completely. But on the pitch, it's never really been more about the collective than now because the pressing game is so prevalent. Like, and there is this weird dual developments where the game on the pitch is becoming more about the collective and the culture off the pitch is becoming more about the individual. And I feel like those two trends kind of collide occasionally and cause, like, really weird outcomes. And this, for me, feels like one of them.
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A
Certainly we will get pushback on Kylian Mbappe is bad. Five minutes.
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F
Yeah, but I haven't actually said that. No, neither have I. I think it's a real challenge for coaches because there are very few teams that can be successful today without having, like, a well coordinated, pressing game. You don't have to play the high press. That's not the only way to do it. But you do have to have some sort of collective agreement on how we press and when we press. And that involves actually telling the players what to do simultaneously. You have players who are so successful, so good and so popular off the pitch and so rich and so adored that they maybe start thinking they don't need to do what they're told. And then that.
- [25:46]
A
That sort of.
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F
That becomes a really difficult thing to deal with for the coaches. I think that's a fascinating dynamic.
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A
Beyond Real Madrid, there are other teams in La Liga, Barry.
- [25:54]
E
Well, Barcelona played Villareal the weekend in that game that was supposed to be played in Miami, but wasn' and was played correctly at Villarreal instead. And Villarreal started really well and couldn't score and then had a man sent off after 38 minutes. But Barca ended up winning that game two nil. But interestingly, well, I find it kind of interesting. Villarreal are in this kind of limbo where they're better than the top three teams in La Liga. Clearly better. But they have been beaten by each of those teams in the first half of the season. And they're also second from bottom in the Champions League group. They've only got one point from six games, which is quite odd. So there's something weird going on there at Villarreal. I noticed Sids the romance of Real Aviedo getting promoted very much seems to have worn off. Our Spanish correspondent, who seemed thorough in this week's column. He, he writes that Real Evo, they're second for bottom. They've scored seven goals this season, three of them in the same game. They haven't scored at home since September or anywhere else since October. They've had more managers than wins and as many red cards as goals.
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A
And that's all the good news.
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E
Poor old Real Virgin.
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D
Yeah.
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E
Oh, and they've also. Their last four home games have all ended nil. Nil.
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A
Oh, that's joyous. Let's go to league out because loans are top. PSG aren't top. I know, Philip, you didn't want to focus on PSG not being top just after we've talked about how good Louis Enrique is and how good PSG have become since Mbappe left. But talk to us about lawns.
- [27:49]
D
Yeah, I mean that. It's, it's, it's a big, it's not a big surprise to see them do okay. It's a big surprise to see do so well. The current series of games is just phenomenal. They've had six wins on the trot and very convincing wins. I mean, There was a 41 win at Monaco in that series. And when you think they started the season with a defeat at home to Lyon and you thought, yeah, they're going to have a half and half kind of season. Not at all. They've been absolutely terrific. Pierre Sarge is doing the formal Lyon coach who was sacked by John Texter, which is probably something that should be printed and gold letters on his business card. He is doing obviously a very good job. But what we are seeing and what is very interesting is Lance is probably the closest in terms of how the club is run to what we have with Brighton in England. Now, obviously there's been a little bit of not as good press about Brighton lately with various stories concerning Tony Bloom and his extra Brighton activities, but there you go. We threw a veil on this for a second. But if you look at the way the club is run, it's very much the same kind of principles as in you've got very, very, very sound recruitment, both in terms of the choice of players and also the money that is being spent. A club that first of all moved through the gears, went from second division to first division, then established itself mid table and carried on and then qualify for the Champions League and now is actually ahead, will be ahead on 1st of January 2026. Not the first time that PSG is not ahead in the league at this stage of the season. Back in 21 when Lille won the title, they were also behind Lyon of all teams. But what they've done is that they have a very solid group. They've sold extremely well. Kevin Danso was sold to Euro Tottenham for over 20 million quid. Andy Diouf was sold to Milan for 20 million and I know he was sold as well for over 20 million. And the players they brought in have all done extremely well. Mamadou Sangare, unfortunately at the African cup of nations, unfortunately for loss, of course. But the big story, Hudson Edouard, who came from Crystal palace for almost nothing. But the big story is the return of Florian Tovin. You remember Florian Tobin, the kind of very impish Franc Ribery Lite version and who was at Newcastle amongst other teams at Marseille, lost his way a bit.
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E
Isn't he the guy who rocked up at Newcastle wearing a tuxedo for his.
- [30:38]
D
That's right, that's him, that's him. There's some absolutely marvelous footage of Florian Thomas. So the hairdo when he came with his tux was quite remarkable as well. But suddenly he's going to be 33 in January and he's having one of those late blossomings again. He seems completely relaxed in this environment. He's scoring goals, he's giving assists and he's back to the Tova we knew and who was thought at the time he would become a regular in the French team. And by the way, he's back in the French team, which is honestly something that nobody would have believed like a few months ago. So you put all that together, good recruitment, excellent management team, a very new kind of approach of football, which is new in the sense within Ligue 1. And an owner, Hugollen, Joseph Hugollen, who is a bit of. Yeah, he's a bit the French Tony Bloom, even though he's got nothing to do with gambling and betting. And this is where we get a little bit perhaps less starry eyed about Lens because they are part of a multi club ownership model. They're part of it because he's also the owner of Padova in Italy, he's the owner of Real Zaragoza in Spain and he's the owner of Milonarios, strangely enough, in Colombia. So that's another aspect of the project that is perhaps not quite as noble as what I described beforehand.
- [32:04]
A
You always ruin it, Philippe.
- [32:05]
D
You always mention it.
- [32:08]
A
Then you just have to ruin it with truth and facts, don't you? Truth and brutal reality. But on the other hand, Christmas is ruined again.
- [32:15]
D
It's a proper club run properly, doing extremely well. And that is something to be celebrated because everybody who's been to Estade Bolaar will know what a wonderful stadium that is and what a great football crowd that is as well. So well done and Good luck for 2026 in Serie A.
- [32:33]
A
Very tight at the top there. Inza 33, Milan 32, Napoli 31, Roma 30. Napoli beat Bologna 20 last night in the super cup and Rasmus Hoyland posted a photo of himself with the trophy and the caption. What a great decision looks like. If you would. A Milan are about to sign Nicholas Full Krug, so presumably that'll. That'll do their title chances no good at all. But I. Hopefully he turns up because I'm a big fan of his. Who would you pick?
- [33:04]
E
Does one of his interviews.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah, exactly. Who would you pick out of those, Lars?
- [33:09]
F
I mean, you do have a creeping suspicion that it's going to be Inter again just on greater know how. But it is a genuinely fascinating title race. Like you say, there's four points between fifth and first and none of them look like undefeated. Yeah, unstoppable. Inter are in the league. Inter probably have the best squad on balance, but they're not, you know, running away with it by any means. So it's going to be a fun league to follow. I would like to see Napoli again just because it's so funny with the sort of Manchester United. I was about to say rejects, but that's not really true is that it's the escapees. I think it's the ones who manage to get out of there and just kind of find a new life in the colonies, so to speak. The thing that's surprising with Napoli is that it didn't start super well this season and Kante was starting to like say the crazy Kanta things and, and from. From. From experience in history, once Conta decides that he's annoyed, tends to just kind of spiral from there, but it hasn't. They've recovered the situation and they're winning games again and they're right back in it. So I'm. I'm on team Napoli for the. For the rest of the season.
- [34:15]
A
I think Paul says late to the party, but I think you can just admit to your anti American bias considering Christian Pudisic was left off the top 100 list. Seriously, he's got seven goals and two assists in 10 games for AC Milan in Serie A, second only to Martinez has played 15 games with two laughing emojis. We did get one other top 100 criticism, which was from Joe, a fellow expat in Melbourne, who said, I was actually in the drive through at South Melbourne McDonald's when you said your Subaru had been spotted at South Melbourne McDonald's, which was very surreal. In the next episode you mentioned a different McDonald's. Not one to argue these things as all personal opinion, but surely this is an oversight. In the last episode, did you both you and Baz not have Mbappe in your top 10 footballers? He's got 59 goals this year, equaling Ronaldo's best season. So there we go. I should have put that in. In the bit when we were talking about Mbappe, but it just sprung to my mind there. But yes, our apologies to Christian Puddis. It wasn't just me and Barry, by the way. Although I don't believe I had pulisic in my 40.
- [35:12]
E
I don't apologize for not having Mbappe in my top 10. He does. He's not in my top 10. Football.
- [35:20]
A
No, I don't apologize for that. For not putting Kirsten Pulisic in my top four.
- [35:24]
E
I don't apologize for that either.
- [35:26]
A
Okay, fair enough.
- [35:27]
E
He's no more in the top. My top 40. We. We only submit a list of 40 and Pulisic wouldn't be in my top 60.
- [35:36]
A
But he may win the World Cup. Let's see. Good luck to him. I want to end the rift. Buy on top of Bundesliga, obviously. 41 points, nine points ahead of Dortmund, who've only lost once, but are still nine points behind Leverkusen in third. What do we say about Bayern Munich? I mean.
- [35:51]
E
Well, I. I just looked at this this morning, Max. Just the. The German golden boot Harry Kane. I reckon if he didn't play another this game, this season would probably still win it. Yes, he's on 19 and his nearest challengers are on eight.
- [36:11]
F
Yeah, it's turning into like what we occasionally see in the Ligue, which is. It would be a really fascinating season if the top team didn't exist. If you could just. If the top. If the team on top of the table could just get caught up in the rapture or something, the rest of the league would be very interesting because it's quite tight, sort of between Dortmund and Leverkusen and Leipzig. But Bayern are incredible. Their domestic form is the best in Europe. The only reason you'd hesitate to say that they're the best team in Europe is, of course, they got beat by Arsenal. But I still think there's this. Anyway, they are absolutely incredible and they're fun to watch and they have obviously Harry Kane leading the way. Harry Kane doing incredible things. But I'm also very much enjoying the emergence of young Leonard Kao, who is. Who looks great.
- [36:59]
E
Yeah, he looks great.
- [37:00]
F
He's one of those guys. He's very young and he looks very young and he's playing with this sort of impish, sort of fearlessness of youth. And it's kind of for a team that does spend a lot of money and is not afraid of spending money now, they still manage to get to find space for these academy kids sometimes when they come through. And Karl looks absolutely unbelievable. So, you know, really, aside from losing to Arsenal, it's hard to think how the season could be going any better, really, for Bayern.
- [37:26]
A
Before we end, part two, Lars, you wanted to pay tribute to Aga Hareida, who passed away last week from brain cancer. Second ever Norwegian to play in England.
- [37:33]
F
Yeah, very sad for really all of Scandinavian football. Olga Hagajde passed last week after a short battle with brain cancer. He was 72 and he was the second Norwegian to play in England when he joined Manchester City in 1981. And as such, I mean, there are Norwegian players who later played in the league who have talked about how like, he was an inspiration for them, but he's more remembered as a manager. He's one of not too many managers in the world who's won the league in three countries. He won the league in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Won the league in Sweden with two different clubs. He took Denmark to the World cup in 2018. He led Malma to two group stage campaigns in the Champions League, which again, taking a Scandinavian club to the group stage in the Champions League twice is not a small thing. And he just kind of. I very flippantly called him a kind of Scandinavian Ancelotti figure because he was very. He was very. He was a very likable guy. A great storyteller, someone who loved to cook outside of the game. Someone who was well read. I remember hearing one chairman at a club he worked at loved him because you could have the coach over for dinner and it'd be really interesting conversations you would have about the world and about culture and everything. So someone who had a life outside of just football and his style of leadership was very much about inspiring people through making them feel good instead of being a disciplinarian and just almost universally well liked guy. And really, from what I'm told, just a few months ago he was thinking about coming out of retirement and doing one last job, but instead suffered this terrible illness and it just went way too quickly, sadly. So he's no longer among us and that's very sad.
- [39:13]
A
Thank you, Lars. And that'll do for part two. Part three will begin with Afcon.
- [39:21]
B
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- [39:40]
D
Yeah.
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B
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C
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- [39:59]
A
Welcome to Part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Before the tournament, we mentioned yesterday, Patrick Matsepe, head of caf, announced that Afcon will move to. To being every four years. I mean, there's been a huge reaction, Philippe, hasn't there, from sort of the African footballing world. Has it been universally. All I've seen is, is people are furious about it and say it's terrible for African football. Has that been a universal feeling that you've got?
- [40:23]
D
Yeah, I mean, all, all my African colleagues are up in arms. The fans are absolutely livid. Some people, officials from various federations are also very unhappy. And if I'm absolutely honest, I don't think it's as much the nature of the tournament moving to every four years as the process, or rather the lack of process which has led to this decision being announced by Motsepe. There's been absolutely zero consultation. The plans have obviously been devised in Zurich and then passed on to Cairo and then announced to the African football communities that that's the way it's going to be and no other way, which is crazy. Everybody knows it's Gianni Infantino's idea because he had been the first to moot it back in 2020 where basically he'd been laughed out of the room by African football dignitaries. And he came back, but this time it's Patrice Motsepe who's imposed that. So the way it's supposed to work is that there's going to be an extra African cup of nations added for some strange reason back in 2020, and then afterwards we move to a quadrill tournament. Whereas the African cup of nations has always been. It's actually one of its charms and it's really part of what it is. It's every two years. It's been like this ever since its inception, and it is the biggest earner for African football by a considerable distance. So what the great idea is, is that we have it every four years. So we also organized the equivalent, and how could this not go wrong, of an African Nations League to be held every single year on the model, if you want, of what's happening with the Euro and the UEFA Nations League. And according to Marcepe, this is the way to multiply the income of African football. Now, I don't think I've come across anyone who believed that it's going to do a lot of good to the finances of African football, because good luck for selling an African Nations League. Good luck as well for the problems it's going to pose to football in general, because the players will have to be released for this Nations League, which is going to be interesting. But more than anything is the fact the decision was taken, nobody knew about it. It's just like people arrived and said, oh, by the way, this is the way it's going to be from now on. It's going to be every four years. And that's that. What? And it keeps on. I mean, the feeling of anger, frustration is such within African football, towards the authority of caf, African Football Confederation, but especially FIFA. I don't know how this is going to end, because remember, we're having an AFCON at the moment. Are we going to say a few words about it? Well, remember, the AFCON was moved to this time of the year on following pressure from FIFA because of the Club World Cup. So African football thinks feels, well, you know, who are we? What are we for these guys? Nothing. We're just a tool which they use.
- [43:32]
A
Why would Gianni want. What's wrong with it being every two years? How does FIFA benefit from it not being like that?
- [43:40]
D
Well, the reason is money. I think that there is an attempt basically to take over African football by FIFA. You might remember as well that Janine Fontenoubu, who officially opposed the European Super League, was not just a partisan or a support for the African Champions League, but actually one of the people who thought about it and tried to sell it. So he's very much saying Africa as a place, a continent which can be governed by FIFA. So whatever suits FIFA. So a quarternment suits FIFA better. So let's have a quadril tournament. We want to have a Champions League. Of course, there is an idea of having more income for African football. The problem is that here we're going completely in the unknown with changing a format which is not absolutely perfect. There are always problems with should be winter, should be summer, should be winter, should be summer. Which of course, because of the climatic conditions which are so vastly different on the continent, is always a bit of a headache. But it's all about asserting your power, the power from Zurich over the football of a whole continent. And as I said, okay, you want an African cup of nations every four years. Well, let's discuss it, because that's an idea. Maybe it could work, but it was not discussed. That's the problem. It's the total lack of transparency. It's the total lack of democracy and the feeling that all the decisions which really matter and affect African football are not taking in Africa, but are taking in Zurich by Gianni Infantino and his. Whatever you would call them. And there's another thing. If you have a Nations League every year and an African of nations every four years, this is the end of the African championship of nations, Chan. And okay, we don't care much about it in terms of. We don't follow it, we don't watch it, but it's a super important competition because, you know, it's a competition which is only open to players who are active in African countries playing in African clubs. And I was dubious at the beginning, but it's really taken on and it's a very important competition. There is no way Chan can survive a Nations League. No way. You just won't have. It would be impossible to have both. So I know, what can you say? This is you. You feel powerless at times. And I think this is the way that most of African football feels today. Totally powerless as to what is being done to itself.
- [46:15]
A
Thank you, Philippe, as always. For those. We can add that to a list of Philippe's important rants about football that.
- [46:23]
E
We could Christmas naughty list.
- [46:27]
A
But it's so bleak.
- [46:28]
D
Is it?
- [46:29]
A
It's just so bleak when the people who run football just don't actually care about fans and the, you know, in each.
- [46:36]
E
Anyway, I just have one question about Morocco. I don't know the answer to this, so I'm curious to know if anyone else does. But their three group games are in Rabat, and if they win their group, which they should, they will be in Rabat for the rest of the Competition. Would they, as hosts, not be better off in Casablanca, which is the real hotbed of Moroccan football, where they would have far more febrile home atmosphere than in Rabat? Does anyone know why this is?
- [47:12]
A
I mean, let me just check my files of knowledge of the Casablanca and Rabat and where.
- [47:20]
E
Well, it's like putting. Putting a Euros in Turkey and having Turkey play outside of Istanbul.
- [47:29]
A
But I don't know. I don't know. I do not know the answer. I do know that eswear is lovely and I had a lovely breakfast there once, but beyond that, no expertise. Let's talk about the games. Marley drew one all with Zambia. South Africa beat Angola 2 1. Egypt beat Zimbabwe 2 1. Mo Salah scored the winner for Egypt. Later on, Omar Moosh getting the equalizer.
- [47:50]
E
That Maramouche goal was brilliant. Well, he whacked the ball in from a really tight angle, but when he controlled the ball, his. His second touch, I think it was just to create the angle so he could score from a really tight angle. Was extraordinary. It was a fantastic goal. I mean, Egypt probably should have won by a lot more. And Zimbabwe took the lead very much against the run of play. But Egypt, yeah, they kind of escaped with. With a win here. They were lucky and. And simultaneously should have won by a lot more.
- [48:30]
A
Before we finish, Philippe, you wanted to talk about the Belgian club, La Picole fc and you're wearing their jersey today.
- [48:39]
D
Le Picole. I am wearing their jersey and you can see the slogan Eat honey. But I should. I should just mention one. Yeah, Eat honey. One thing about the Afcon, because you would like this, Max, you know, South Africa beat Angola 2 1. And you know, the game was a game. Well, nothing special to talk about it, but I advise you to go on YouTube and watch the highlights as they were shown by Supersport, you know, the South African channel. I believe everybody can watch these because I don't know if it's like this in all the other highlights, at one point, Boccasi, I hope I've said correctly. 40 yards for goal. Let's fly a shot of Juninho Pernambucca. Strength, violence, which hits the bar. And it's not the shot. The shot is fantastic, but it's the noise it makes. I've never heard a more satisfying thump against the woodwork as this one. Watch it, Listen to it. It's just gorgeous. Anyway, so monger du miel. Eat honey. Yeah, a nice uplifting story, Max. I was in Liege recently, as I tend to go, one of my favorite cities in the world now. Liege is known in football for standard, of course, and for also FC Liege, the second team which played in Europe a couple of times. But they've got a new club which is called FC La Picole. Consider it a B here. And the lepicole means two things. It's a play on words, which is typical Belgian, because Belgians are absolute acrobats, virtuosos when it comes to play on words. French words, that is. La picole means the apiculture, basically honeys, bees, so forth. But it also means booze.
- [50:34]
E
Right.
- [50:35]
D
Cel picole means booze. Yeah. The motto of the club is derived from the Marseille droit au butte, straight to Gaul and it's called droitfu, which means straight to the cask of beer. Okay. And you think, okay, that's just a fun thing to do. But it's actually. There's something very serious about it because the honey, they actually do their own honey. And the ground, which is very near Liege, has got beehives all around it. There has been no reports of attacks from the bees on either spectators or players yet. And they try to promote, obviously healthy eating. But not only that, this shirt is made from plastic which has been recycled from the beaches, from the beaches of the North Sea. Volunteers from the club pick up the litter, transform it and make this beautiful shirt with it. And when it came to selling it, they didn't want to sell it for a lot of money, but they didn't know how much to sell it for. When somebody said, what's our postcode? And somebody said, well, it's 4130. Okay, €41 30 is the price of the shirts which you can get online at the website of FC Le Picol. They're absolutely wonderful people. They play in quite a low division in regional football, but there's quite a large public at all their games. And you can understand why. Monger Dumiel so long life to FC l'. Apicole. Long may they drink, long may they play football and long may they eat honey.
- [52:06]
A
They are part of a multi club ownership which is owned by an arms dealer. But you know, them's the breaks that.
- [52:13]
E
That little Philippe Vignette was. It's like when, you know they have a special guest on Countdown and they. Yes to them.
- [52:20]
A
Before the ad break, Giles Brandreth moment. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And what have you got, Philippe? Oh, it was lovely. Jordan finally says hi, Max Barry and the Football Weekly team. My fiance Izzy and I are tying a knot this New Year's Eve in Brighton. We're both huge Football Weekly fans. Nothing would make her happier than a surprise wedding blessing from Barry in his soothing tones. I'm a Liverpool fan. She's an Arsenal fan. I've been struggling to cope with her gloating this season. But just as she enjoys listening to you all celebrate Mikel Arteta masterclasses, I take comfort in listening to the few positives you can pick out from Liverpool season so far. I know the pod will be super packed across the Christmas football mayhem. If you could squeeze us in then, that would be wonderful. Please separately let us know if Barry would be interested in being an official marriage registrar. I'm sure this service may outperform the current Football Weekly merch sales numbers. All the best, Jordan. Would you like to marry Izzy and Jordan Barry on New Year's Eve?
- [53:14]
E
Is that what the registrar does? I mean, I don't know I have the sufficient. No, that's the celebration in me to actually conduct a wedding. I think I am actually free on New Year's Eve. So, you know, if they're willing to pay a suitably exorbitant fee, I could travel down and just oversee the wedding. Jordan, Izzy, I wish you all the very best. At least it will be an easy wedding anniversary to remember.
- [53:42]
D
True.
- [53:42]
E
For as long as the marriage lasts. And then once it ends, it would be a. A dark, dark day in the calendar for one or both of you.
- [53:53]
D
Yeah.
- [53:54]
A
You say New Year's Eve is an anti climax for you. Well, let me tell you. Anyway, we wish you all the best. Barry will of course do it for nothing if you want him to do. Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here today. Oh, be wonderful if you marry. If you started marrying listeners together. Barry. A great way to keep this pod going in perpetuity. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Lars.
- [54:14]
F
Thank you, Max.
- [54:15]
A
Merci beaucoup, Felipe. And thanks, Barry.
- [54:19]
E
Kal.
- [54:20]
D
Yeah, exactly.
- [54:21]
A
A Football Weekly produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Daniel Stevens. The Hu Nani Christmas Eve special is out tomorrow. This is the Guardian.