Italian heartbreak and Tuchel’s selection headache – Football Weekly podcast

Summary

Football Weekly (The Guardian)

Episode: Italian heartbreak and Tuchel’s selection headache

Date: April 1, 2026
Panel: Max Rushden (host), Barry Glendenning, Lars Sivertsen, Nicky Bandini

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Overview

This episode explores the fallout from Italy’s dramatic failure to qualify for a third consecutive World Cup, the euphoria for qualifying nations like Bosnia, and England’s defeat to Japan highlighting Thomas Tuchel’s selection dilemmas. The panel reviews final qualification playoff results, discusses morale and expectation among major footballing nations, and unpacks Tottenham’s high-stakes decision to appoint Roberto De Zerbi. A significant section also addresses the moral controversy around De Zerbi’s public defense of Mason Greenwood, reflecting growing activism from supporters’ trusts.

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1. Italy’s World Cup Elimination: “Not a Shock Anymore”

[00:00–13:35]

The Mood in Italy

• Nicky Bandini (02:15): “It doesn't feel like a shock anymore. And that's almost the most depressing part of it all.”
  • Italian reaction moves from “apocalypse” after initial failures to resignation: “All the headlines were just tuttiakaz, everyone home.”
  • Emotional impact not just on players but on entire generations missing shared World Cup memories.

Key Match Analysis

• Italy 1-1 Bosnia (Bosnia win on penalties)
  • Italy showed flashes but failed to put game away; Bastoni’s red card for a rash challenge changed the tide.
  • Barry Glendenning (06:33): “They went a goal up and should have gone 2-0 up… but Bosnia came back, bundled home that scruffy goal.”
  • Moise Kean missed a crucial chance at 1-0.
  • Lars Sivertsen: Noted Bosnia’s attacking intent and that Italy “are just not very good at the moment… are they doing anything to get better?”
  • Nicky defends the quality of Italian players: “It’s too easy just to say the talent isn’t good enough. The confidence is not.”

Bosnia’s Triumph

• Bosnia’s youth (especially Begovic, 18) show mental fortitude, outplaying Italy with 31 shots.
• Nicky: “Too many Italian players… play in a league where people don’t dribble, and then they come up against players who dribble, like Memmic, like Dedic…”

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2. Playoff Recap: Sweden, Czechia, Turkey Advance

[15:55–22:40]

Sweden’s Dramatic Victory

• Sweden 3-2 Poland – 88th minute winner by Victor Gyökeres
  • Barry (16:13): “A fun goal… a real ping pong pinball goal to win such an important playoff.”
  • Lars hails Graham Potter’s tactical flexibility: “He just coached it brilliantly in both games… the Graham Potter redemption arc very much afoot here.”

Czech Republic vs. Denmark

• Czechia win on penalties after being outshot 22–9.
  • Lars: “The Czechs deserve a lot of credit…not a good team, but physically robust… they fight for it and don’t give up.”

Turkey’s Return

• Turkey 1-0 Kosovo
  • Keenan Yildiz dominant on the left wing.
  • “Traditional dark horses… go into a group with Australia, Paraguay and the USA, which looks pretty open.” (Barry, 22:40)

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3. England’s Defeat to “Dark Horses” Japan: Tuchel’s Selection Dilemma

[22:40–31:33]

Match Overview

• England lose to Japan; “not a shot on target until the 77th minute.”
  • Barry (23:16): “I would read little or nothing into this game… but I would be concerned by the fact that they didn’t have a shot on target…”

Tactical Headaches

• Tuchel’s experimentation yields poor fluidity without Harry Kane.
  • Lars (25:31): “The Phil Foden false 9 thing should probably now be shelved… you need a centre forward if Kane is missing.”
  • Too many similar playmakers—Palmer, Foden, Rodgers, Mainoo—“a lot of guys who want the ball at their feet, but maybe not as many who want to stretch the play.”

Defensive Frailty

• Japan’s goal: “Quite easy to get past the entire England midfield and defence.” (Max, 27:03)
• Lars: “Kobbie Mainoo’s strengths are not the defensive side… it did seem a little bit easy.”

Managing Expectations

• England’s “quarterfinal ceiling” and reliance on Kane discussed.
  • Nicky: “England are absolutely in the pool of teams that are capable of winning this tournament. Doesn’t mean they’re going to win it, but they are capable.”
  • Barry on route 1 tactics: “Who doesn’t like to see it getting launched to the big man? You’d hope it wouldn’t come to that, but why not?” (30:00)

Light-Hearted Moment

• Joking about Japan’s famed dressing room cleanliness: “Could we develop some kind of dressing room cleaning one-upmanship here?” (Lars, 31:12)

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4. Other Qualifiers and World Cup Talking Points

[31:33–34:52]

• Scotland lost to Côte d'Ivoire in a friendly; concerns about attacking quality.
• Iran confirm they will participate in the World Cup in the US, despite geopolitical uncertainty—panel skeptical about feasibility.
• DR Congo and Iraq both secure World Cup spots; their histories and player bases briefly discussed.

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5. Tottenham Appoint Roberto De Zerbi: Footballing and Moral Debate

[34:52–48:33]

The Football Conversation

• De Zerbi joins on a five-year deal, Spurs’ third manager of the season, with survival in the balance.
  • Lars (36:00): “If by ‘digging’ you mean read an interview with Lewis Dunk… he said, ‘the first couple of weeks were baffling.’”
  • Questions about whether De Zerbi can adapt his demanding style for a relegation fight. “Does De Zerbi have a pragmatic bone in his body? I’m not sure.” (Nicky, 37:17)
  • Barry: “He started at Palermo—won one of his first thirteen games… at Brighton, drew two and lost three of his first five. Spurs’ remaining games are all tough.” (39:00)
  • Lars: “It’s a very, very strange choice… you’re betting your Premier League status on him being able to do something different than what he’s been successful with in the past.” (40:55)

Notable Quote

• “He’s going to have to do things differently than he’s done before, that’s for sure. He doesn’t have the time or the players to do all the stuff he wants to do immediately.” —Lars Sivertsen [40:55]

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6. De Zerbi and the Mason Greenwood Controversy: Supporter Backlash

[41:12–48:33]

Supporters’ Trust Expresses “Serious Concerns”

• Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust and other fan groups voice opposition, citing De Zerbi’s public comments defending Mason Greenwood (“deeply offensive to a significant number of supporters”).
• Barry (43:54): “Three different fan groups have said they don’t want De Zerbi in charge because of his support for Greenwood… I would wholeheartedly disagree with his assertion that Greenwood has paid a heavy price for what happened, because I would say he hasn’t paid any price at all.”
  • Panel discusses the complexity of holding consistent moral lines in football.

Notable Quotes

• Nicky Bandini (45:28): “It just feels like another reason to not make a decision… If you know your fan base is opposed to an appointment, that feels like another good reason not to make [it].”
• Lars (46:42): “It was heartening to see the fan groups make such a strong statement… It’s not a great time to hire a very divisive guy when you have seven games left to save your status in the Premier League.”
• Max Rushden (48:33): “It’s impossible to write about this stuff because you can’t name any names generally, so you have to be so vague that your article doesn’t really make sense.”

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7. Memorable Quotes & Lighthearted Moments

• Max Rushden (06:04): “I was almost getting me choked up, Nikki, with how I didn’t think I’d be that sad about it.”
• Lars Sivertsen (16:13): “The Graham Potter redemption arc very much afoot here.”
• Barry: “Who doesn’t like to see it getting launched to the big man?” [30:00]
• Lars (31:12): “Could we develop some kind of dressing room cleaning one-upmanship here?”

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8. Timestamps for Key Segments

• Italian heartbreak / reactions: 00:00–13:35
• Bosnia’s triumph & the playoff breakdown: 10:07–15:55
• Sweden, Czechia, Turkey playoff wins: 15:55–22:40
• England v. Japan, Tuchel’s selection challenges: 22:40–31:33
• Spurs appoint De Zerbi: 34:52–41:12
• Fan backlash & Greenwood controversy: 41:12–48:33

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Tone & Panel Dynamic

Insightful, occasionally wry, open to digression and emotional candor, with strong commitment to both football analysis and serious social issues. Relatable, humorous asides balance with pointed commentary—especially when discussing the intersection of football culture and morality.

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For listeners seeking a nuanced, empathetic yet unsparing discussion of current football events—on and off the pitch—this episode typifies Football Weekly’s strengths.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Guardian. Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Italy miss a third World cup in a row. What was unthinkable 12 years ago is now well thinkable. They battled so hard with 10 for so long. But the Bosnians held their nerve in the shootout. The streets of Sarajevo filled to bursting while the Azzurri have to deal with reels of people asking dad or what the World cup was like elsewhere. The Czech saw off Denmark on penalties while Jokers won it late for Sweden, who qualified despite only getting two points in their qualifying group. And the dark horses, Turkey made it. Of course they did. A great night for managing expectations for England defeat and deserved defeat to Japan, who scored a beautiful goal slicing through an anonymous England midfield in defence. They should have been further ahead when Tuchel threw on Harry Maguire and Dan Byrne from some real DNA. Get it launched and almost got something. Perhaps time to reassess the spreadsheet. Also today, Deserby to Spurs fan protests and a slightly worrying examination of how he starts at clubs. How many of his five years will be in the second tier? We'll do that. Answer your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Week. Cleave. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello.

[B]

Hi, Max.

[A]

Alal Sivitson. Welcome.

[C]

Hello, everyone.

[A]

Hello. And we had so many messages like this. Matt, no questions, Please pass my condolences on to Nikki. Nick. Oh, Nikki, I'm sorry, Mike. No question. Just give Nikki a virtual hug from me. Yes. Bosnia won. Italy won. Bosnia threw on penalties. Nikki, I'm sorry too.

[D]

Me too. Me too. Honestly, it was interesting taking in the different way people reacted last night. I feel like, unsurprisingly, on, on the timeline, you see a lot of anger and I, I feel like I'm. I'm well past the stage of Italy. It's. It's just this point of quite profound sadness about the fact that this keeps happening and we keep not getting to have Italy at the World Cup. And I don't know if I. I can say it felt inevitable because there were certainly points in that game where I thought that Italy were going to get it done, but it. It doesn't feel like a shock anymore. And that's almost the most depressing part of it all, is it's. It's not surprising to me, even though I made the argument of why Italy should and are good enough to be at a World cup, it's not some great shock anymore that they won't be, because we've been doing this cycle now for three cycles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then all these stats come in. John Bruin tweeting Italy's last game at the World cup finals was Luis Suarez chomping on Giorgio Chiellini's shoulder. Colin Miller saying Italy have not played a World cup knockout match since the creation of the iPhone in January 2007. Homer saying kids starting secondary school this year weren't alive the last time Italy played a match in the World cup finals. And they won't see one until they've begun their GCSEs at the earliest. So I don't know, I mean, obviously you're not in Italy, Nikki, but you've scanned the reaction there. Is that the same feeling there? It has been called an apocalypse before and now it's more just a kind

[B]

of another couple lips.

[D]

I was going through the papers just now and, and it is interesting because I was going through the old ones actually before the game, I was reminding myself of how the reaction was different each time. And it. It does feel again. The terms used the first time around were apocalypse, which of course was used by the then head of the Italian Football federation, Tavecchio, who resigned, by the way, which the current head, despite also presiding over the north Macedonia, so far has not done. The then head of the football federation, Tavecchio called it an apocalypse, but the newspapers called it a disaster. I think Gazzetta compared it to the Titanic as this mixture of arrogance and softness that had overtaken the Italian game. And this year, I mean, I'm sure if I dig deeper I'll find those headlines too. But really all the headlines were just tuttiakaz, everyone home. That's it. It almost felt more like a. Not that there's not again anger and disappointment, but it just hasn't got that shock factor anymore, which doesn't mean that it doesn't carry huge weight for the players. And I've made this point before and I make it again, there's going to be at a minimum now an entire generation, 12 years worth of professional footballers who just don't get to play at a World cup. And some of in this group might still have the chance. The one who's going to be, I suppose, the villain of the piece, Bastoni, after his red card, he might get another chance. The one who probably was closest to being the hero of the pistonaruma who kept them ahead for so long. He will still probably have at least one more cycle. But there are players in this group who have come by and have played their entire careers without Italy at a World cup and you feel bad for them and then you also think, but they at least had the chance to change it. I feel worse, as I always do, for, for the families who don't get to share it, because I think that's always what I come back to as, as, as someone who's loved football for most of my life. It's, it's always the thing I come back to is, or why do I love football in the first place? And, and I do think, for me at least, a huge part of that story was watching World Cups and of course was unbelievably spoiled that as someone in a half English, half Italian family, my very first World cup memories are from a World cup where both countries reached a semi final and then the next one, Italy are in the final. So there was lots of reasons to feel a special connection to those moments. But of course we, we all see the world through our own, through our own lens. And for me, those are really formative experiences. Watching the World Cups with my family and, and knowing that, that, yeah, there's going to be, I mean, again, even kids who are kids who are 20 now who got to see a World cup maybe when they were so young, they better remember it. That, that's such a, an extraordinary sad thought for me, to which we always have to point the opposite way, which is also to say, but guess what? A group of Bosnian kids do.

[A]

Of course, yeah, they will get the moment. I was almost getting me choked up, Nikki, with how I didn't think I'd be that sad about it. And the thing is, Barry, they like, they started so well. It's, I think Bosnia deserved it, right? But, but Italy did start well and there were moments in this game where you were like, ah, you know, they're going to win it. They go ahead. Moise. The Keane has that chance, doesn't he? At 1 nil, you by, by the time Bosnia, you think, oh, it's just, it's, it's late enough that you think Italy are going to hang on.

[B]

It is, it is nice that we finally got around to mentioning there were two teams playing in this match and that Bosnia won. I think they thoroughly deserve to win. 31 shots, 11 on target. Yeah, Italy, I'm not going to say they blew it, but they went a goal up and they should have gone two nil up. That moist Keane miss when he was one on one with Vasily and failed to hit the target that probably would have killed off Bosnia and put the game to bed and easily will be going to the World Cup. But he, he missed under pressure, Bosnia came back, bundled home that scruffy goal. And Esposita had a chance near the end where his, his far post header was saved by Vasily and Italy messed up the penalties. I'm not sure Espositia should have gone first. I would, you know, put your best penalty taker first. That's probably Sandro Tonali, isn't it? But Bosnia go to the World cup, they play Canada, they're the second last team to qualify and they'll be the first team to play in the opener against Canada. So good on them. I have to say I don't feel as sorry for Italy as he appeared to. I. I've no sympathy for them at all. I think it's mad that they failed to qualify for three World Cups in a row. But while failing to qualify for three World Cups in a row, they've also won the Euros, which is pretty bonkers.

[A]

Yeah, I think I feel sorry for Nikki. If Nikki. And if Nikki was Bosnian, I'd probably be happy for Nicky, you know, like, like. So, you know, I just wondering there,

[B]

when you were reading all those nice emails from listeners, was there a similar deluge when Ireland got knocked out, or did you just select not to read them?

[A]

I don't think people feel sympathy, or maybe they do, Barry, but for many other reasons. That, that, that red card, Lars, for bastard. I mean, it is a challenge you just can't make, can you, if you're not going to get it.

[C]

Yeah. And it's untypical because I was. If you mentioned. So I want to get with this, mentioned this with Nikki a little bit about just the general quality of the players they have at the moment. But if you're gonna list, like, they have a handful of players you would consider, like, globally speaking, to be top international standard performers, and then you'd list Bastoni as one of them. And you're not really expecting sort of an elite level Italian to do something that daft because surely you have to be like, aware enough to know a red card is worse than conceding a goal for your team's chances. Like, everyone knows this now. I think at this point, getting a red card in the first half is considerably worse for your chances in the game than conceding a goal. So if you get beat there, he still needs to get past the goalkeeper. Like, it's a nonsensical challenge to put in from a player who really should know quite a lot better. And I also just want to pivot to this idea of having Faced Italy twice in the qualifiers. From the Norwegian perspective, you're not afraid of them really. Like there are a handful of players who are very good and are playing for very good club sides. But as an opponent, when you're coming up against Italy, what names on the team sheet makes you go, oh my God, we have to like, that guy's really going to kill us. There isn't. And compared to like we played a friendly against the Dutch recently and they were quite a lot better. They were much harder to deal with. And I think there's a. The football point of all of this is that the Italians are just not very good at the moment and are they doing anything to get better in terms of developing players and stuff?

[D]

I actually want to do what Baz said, which I feel like got said and then didn't get done and talk about Bosnia a bit because I do think there's things to say on their side. I thought there were some great performances, but I understand completely what Lars is saying about not the fear factor, because there isn't a fear factor with Italy. And of course there isn't. I think that was actually a big narrative of this game is that Italy were a team with everything to lose and Bosnia were the team with nothing to lose. And you saw it. Italy were afraid. Italy were afraid from the start, from the very third minute. I think they just gave Memch all the space in the world to put across in. And, and they, they, they look nervous all the way through. I simply can't get with the narrative that their players aren't good enough. There's no world in which you would go through these two starting elevens. Go. Italy have the worst starting eleven. They've got Sandro Tonari who's starting for Newcastle. They've got Ricardo Calafiori who's playing for a Premier League title. Aspirin Arsenal. They've got Donaruma who's playing for the other Premier League aspiring title winners, Man City. They've got Bastoni and Barello who've played in Champions League finals twice in the last three years. You can't tell me there's not talent in the team. That's such a cop out for me, frankly. And that's one of the reasons I think I rail against it is because it's, it's too easy to go. This team isn't good enough. The team is good enough. It's not great. It's not one of the best Italian teams. Not even close to one of the best Italian teams. I've seen. But it's also not the worst Italian team I've seen. And it's better than Italian teams I've seen winning football games. And. And I think that' it's too easy just to say the talent isn't good enough. I get that it's not scary good, but it's good enough. But I do think it is less than the sum of its parts. I do think it's fearful. I do think it's been systematically let down by leadership at the Football Federation. And I do think that without actually wanting to pin it all on him, because I think it's too easy to make him a scapegoat, I think Gennaro Kattuza was not a good enough manager for the job that was required. And I think all those things are true. And. And I think on the other side of it, there were some sensational performances from the Bosnians. I thought they absolutely took the game to Italy from the start. I think that the red card is almost, to me, feels like a red herring, because it was 11 shots or two for Bosnia by the time that Bastogni went off. So it wasn't like they were struggling in the game before that. Even though, of course, you don't know how it might have gone differently once he was on. I thought the way that team was willing to just get on the ball and dribble and run at Italy was. Perhaps it's luck of the types of talent you have and the types of players you're up against. But it was exactly the right formula to unsettle Italy. Too many Italian players in Serie A are not used to having opponents dribble at them. It's one of the issues I think Italian players are having right now is they play in a league where people don't dribble and then they come up against players who dribble, like Memmic, like Dedic, like in the second half, Alej Begovic, who is, I think, going to be a player we talk about a lot more in the next few years. I think he's obviously scored that he assisted the goal against, against Wales, and then he scored penalties in both games. Talk about Espositor being a kid who can't handle the pressure. Well, guess what? Ale Begovic is 18 and took penalties brilliantly in both games. I do think there's some. Some really good stuff in this Bosnia team. They're not going to win the World Cup. I'm not trying to blow smoke and pretend that Italy were beaten by some sensational side, but I Do think performance wise in this game, they didn't nick it. They. They absolutely deserved it. And if anything, while, yes, Italy had chances as well, if anything, I'd say they were the team that should feel worse that went to penalties. They were the team that had more chances to win the game before that.

[C]

I don't disagree that player for player, Italy have a stronger squad than Bosnia. On paper, that's fine. But if you then get out shot like 30 to 10 or something, then clearly something's gone quite badly wrong. And do you think you have to look at Gattuso a little bit. Is he even the best Italian coach in this playoff? I wonder. With Montella actually doing quite well with Turkey at the moment, I think that's a valid question. To ra I thought was interesting. So I was watching the Swedes and the Danes. I couldn't speak to the first 90 minutes, but I did watch the extra time. And Italy looked quite dangerous when they actually attacked, which certainly from the numbers, it looked like they were not doing at all within 90 minutes. Is it a possibility that they got too buried in their own mythology here and it was like, oh, we were a man down, but we have a lead. We're just gonna bunker down and defend like heroes. Because when they started attacking a little bit in the extra time, they were knackered, surely. Yeah, but they were getting into decent positions and they were making things happen. So maybe this is like a team mental management. Boo. Boo. Of maybe having. Maybe they should have tried to play some football earlier.

[D]

I feel like they've been cowed by the occasion all the way through this playoff. I thought against Northern Ireland, it was only really after the goal that they settled and actually looked like they should do, which is clearly a markedly better group of individual talents than Northern Ireland have. And. And I think that in this game, they never got to that point of looking like what they should do. They never looked composed on the ball. You saw the quality in moments. I thought the way that Baralla, the way they at least scored their goal, I mean, it was good pressing from Ortegi to begin with. Barella also made a really quick, smart decision to get the ball onto Ken. And Ken took his chance brilliantly. And Ken also very nearly scored another great goal. He was really smart pounce on that pass by Memmich and he just let down by his finish on it. I think Italy absolutely lack the confidence to be as good as they should be in terms of talent, which is why I keep saying I refuse to let this talent be the excuse Because I think the talent is good enough, the confidence is not. And I think confidence comes from having good leadership, which, yes, Gattuso is. He's not a good enough manager for this team and what they're trying to be, and that's part of it. But of course I do think they are also weighed down by the history of, oh God, if we do this, it's going to be three World Cups in a row. And I think that's. Unfortunately that's also the manager's job though, to get the players out of their own heads and remind them just to play football because they know how.

[A]

Well, I look forward to this conversation again in four years time. So Sweden beat Poland 3 2. Bazaar Victor Yokerez in the 88th minute. What a fun goal. I mean not for the polls, but just a real ping pong pinball goal to win a such an important playoff.

[B]

Yeah, so this game they exchanged goals, Sweden went ahead, Poland came back, Sweden went ahead again, Poland came back. Matty Cash with an assist for that one. And then in the 88 minute, Gustav Lundgren beats Arsenal old boy Jakob Kibior far too easily down the right and pulls the ball back into the area. Svensson shot was blocked. Bergwaj's follow up was saved. Best for Zanelli's follow up to the follow up hit the post. And then Victor Jocherez outmuscled one of the Polish defenders to bury the follow up to the follow up to the follow up and send Sweden through a really crazy goal at a late stage of the match. And a fun goal, but as you say, not if you're. You're Polish. That was a heartbreaker, that one.

[A]

Yeah. Great achievement for Grant Potter take Sweden to the World cup this summer. Lots of people saying, look, they only got two points in qualification. This is ridiculous.

[C]

Well, I think having this extra sort of route in through the Nations League is not a bad structural thing because I think it just keeps, it keeps excitement alive for more fans for longer, which I think is inherently a good thing. And it's not like a bunch of teams are getting in through the Nations League. It's a small route that doesn't apply to a lot of teams and I think that's fine. I'm glad you mentioned Graham Potter because I watched both of these games, both the Ukraine game and this, and for me it's a huge, huge thing by, by Graham Potter. I think he's got it just absolutely spot on. In both games, both Ukraine and Poland have got better ballplayers in midfield than Sweden. Do. And it's not a vintage Swedish generation, certainly not with the injuries they have. But Potter set them up accordingly. They set them up with three at the back. Just a pretty solid midfield, keep the team compact. Let's not try anything we're not good at and let the opponent have the ball for quite a lot of the game, just in harmless areas. And then they were very direct going forward, trying to hit Elanga and Jucher as early and try to exploit the spaces that opened up. And in this game, I think for a long time, Poland looked like the better team here, to be honest. Sweden scored with their first two efforts in the game. Like, there was a great shot from Malanga and then the header from a corner. I think it was that piece from la, but it was their first two efforts in. In the game. They had. I think they had three shots at halftime and. And Poland deep into the second half. We're playing better football. We're looking like the better team. But Sweden finished strong and. And Potter made some substitutions that I think. I mean, if you're looking for your head coach to make moves from the bench, that changes the. The. The dynamics of the game. Potter did that as well, and they finished stronger and it wasn't completely undeserved when they won in the end. And the Graham Potter redemption arc very much afoot here because I thought he just coached it brilliantly in both games.

[A]

You were also watching the Danes, your Nordic brethren. They went out to check you on penalties. What did you make of this game?

[C]

So it's a funny one.

[A]

This.

[C]

This was kind of the opposite. I mean, the Danes will have outshot the Czechs by quite a lot. They had 22 shots in the game to the Czechs nine. They had 77% possession across the two halves and the extra time. The Danes. But this is why they were in the playoffs as well. Denmark, they had. They dropped points against Scotland twice. Both games. They had the ball more, had more chances. They had a draw against Belarus in which they had over 30 shots in the qualifier. They do this sometimes, the Danes, they dominate possession. They create a lot of good opportunities, but they just can't. They're not efficient and they concede to goals too easily. So they were the better team. But the Czechs deserve a lot of credit for. I mean, and this will be familiar to Barry, I guess, from the Ireland game. They're not a good team, the Czechs, but they're physically robust and they're fighters. Like, they don't give up. They keep grinding away. They Were second best throughout here, but they always carried a bit of a threat on the counter and they were physically tough. Didn't make it easy for the Danes, even though the Danes were better than them. And in the end they were very good from the penalty spot. Like the penalties were considerably better than the Danish. Poor Rasmus Howland putting the first one in the bar not so good. And yeah, it's sad for the Danes, but I think the. We've had conversations on the pod, haven't we, on the nature of what it means to deserve something in football. Is it the team who creates the most chances or the team that has a good game plan, whatever. I think Denmark, we're the better team here in terms of passing the ball, creating shooting opportunities, creating chances. But the Czechs held in there and they fight for it and they don't give up. And that's how they won both games against both Denmark and Ireland, I'd say.

[A]

Meanwhile, Barry, the dark horses Turkey are through.

[B]

They are. I think Japan cemented their the dark horse status for this World cup by beating England last night. But the traditional dark horse is Turkey, who hadn't been at a World cup since 2002. They won their place with a one nil win in Kosovo. And yeah, I think they deserve to win. It was a Keenan yield as show. He was brilliant, wreaking havoc up the left wing, taking on defenders, pulling balls into the penalty area. And they went close to scoring with one of his pullbacks to Al Altercaglou who couldn't quite get enough welly on the ball to steer at home. And then that was more or less a dress rehearsal for the goal they did score, which had a hint of offside about it, but it was given, I think it was the correct decision. Despite the protests of the cost of ins, they had a late effort from Moose Leisure, a dip in shot that fizzed very narrowly wide. But I think on the balance of play, Turkey deserves to go through. It was quite interesting. It was shades of the spurs game against Atletico Madrid. In the early stages of this game, it was lashing rain and various Turkish players just could not stay in their feet. They kept slipping, kept falling over and I was thinking, oh dear, this, I remember this from a few weeks ago, but I don't know if they changed their studs or whatever, but they got the job done and they go into a group with Australia, Paraguay in the usa, which you'd have to say is looks pretty open.

[A]

That does look open. That will be a fun group, won't it? Okay, that'll do for part one. Part two will be England's defeat at the hands of the dark horses Japan. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Tombo says, how relaxed is Barry feeling right now? William says, can we skip to crashing out in the quarters so we have a sort of neutral slash hostile panel to digest this. England defeat. This was not on any of your main screens, I guess, but you will have seen the highlights and stuff. What did you make of it, Baz?

[B]

I would read little or nothing into this game. I think the result is irrelevant, but I would, if I was an England fan, I would be concerned by the fact that they didn't have a shot on target to the 77th minute. I know Elliot Anderson curled a shot onto the bar in the first half, but as we know, that doesn't count as a shot on target. But yeah, it wasn't until 77 minutes that Rashford had a shot saved. And then England seemed to resort to getting the big men on and trying to score from corners. And it almost worked. Didn't quite. Rodgers shot over after a damn Byrne header was cleared his way. I have a tremendous amount of admiration for Dan Byrne and the trajectory his career has taken and the fact that he's living his best life playing for the club he loves. But I don't think he should be anywhere near an England World cup team. With the greatest respect, I just think he's too slow. But anyway, he's in the squad. He'll probably be in the World cup squad. I'm not sure what, if anything, Thomas Tuchel will have learned from this game or from this international break. I think his decision to pick so many players might have backfired him and given him more problems instead of fewer. And I think possibly the. The player who's benefited most from this international break was one who isn't wasn't in the squad, Danny Welbeck. Because if I was Thomas Tuchel, I'd be given serious consideration to bringing him to the World cup as backup to Hurricane.

[A]

Yeah, possibly Trent Bellingham. I mean, Kane didn't play either. All these people get better by not playing. I thought Barney made an interesting point in his. His report saying, look, Japan played like Japan, whereas England played like. The latest idea of it is England is supposed to play like and we get to that stage Lars again. And I, I don't know if I totally agree with Barry that I think you can read quite a lot into this, which is it's the second time Tuchel has played somebody vaguely good and he's lost both those games, Japan and Senegal, and that's only a friendly. And they were missing Harry Kane, which is obviously big, right? Harry Kane is good, hold the front page, but I think. I think it will leave him with a lot of things to think about.

[C]

I think. I think you're being a little harsh on Serbia there, Max, but that's fine.

[A]

Okay. My apologies to the Serbian.

[C]

I think it's kind of a useful failure in the sense that it poses. This game posed the question, what does happen if England have to play without Harry Kane? And based on the first hour, not a lot, I guess. I think The Phil Foden false 9 thing should probably now be shelved as not being plan A if Kane is missing. I think if you're Tuchel, you look at that and think that that didn't work very well at all. And that makes you realize you probably need a center forward if you're missing Kane, which maybe we did need an hour of football against Japan to learn that. But. But we certainly have. I do think we had this, which is a pretty classic England international situation. I think you had a lot of guys who wanted to get on. On the ball. I mean, again, I wasn't. This was not on my primary screen. But I have watched highlights and you have, like, if you have Palmer, Foden, Rodgers, Mainoo, to an extent in the same sort of rough area of the field, you have a lot of guys who want the ball at their feet, but maybe not as many guys who wants to stretch the play by making runs off the ball and then it ends up just being muddled. I think simplicity is important in international management. I think asking players to, like, set up really intricate combinations and things when they hardly ever train together is not the way. What we've learned from this is that you need a striker and you need a viable second choice behind Harry Kane. Maybe that's Dominic Solanke. Maybe Danny Welbeck is in with a late shout. Maybe there's a Dominic Calvert Lewin discussion to be had. Maybe you bring Ivan Toney back from the desert, I don't know. But you need somebody who you can turn to, I think.

[A]

Lars. The Japan goal was beautiful, but it did feel like quite easy to get past the entire England midfield and defence.

[C]

I don't necessarily want to pick on him, but I do wonder if somewhere out there Ruben Amarim was watching Japan just run past Kobbie Mainu and him like, not tracking back with a tremendous amount of enthusiasm and just going whatever is Portuguese for. I told you so I told you, I kept telling you, listen, this is not a big deal, really. I mean, we all know Kobbie Mainu's strengths are not the defensive side of the game, but, yeah, it did seem a little bit easy. I agree with that in a sense.

[A]

Niki, like having our expectations managed is good. Right. Even though we'll forget about this in two months and I will be thinking, plotting the route again to the final, despite plotting it wrong.

[D]

I was about to say, what's this? What's this hour, Mags? Is that your expectations that you're trying?

[A]

Obviously, something happens to me. As Barry knows, I turn cockney when the England games are happening. And I think I'm. I think actually over the years, even I was a quite an old adult when Barry and I started watching these World Cups. But, you know, even in the last decade, I've become a bit less kind of mockney. I don't know what it is, but I don't have any expectations this time, actually. I mean, I just. I just think England are probably quarterfinal, might get lucky, get to a semi, might get really lucky, get to a final, but they're not, you know, they don't play with the flow of Japan, but they also. There are just teams with better players as well.

[D]

I think England are absolutely in the pool of teams that are capable of winning this tournament. It doesn't mean they're going to win it, but they are one of the teams that's capable of winning it. But part of the reason they are capable of winning it. And this kind of throws back to when Lars was talking about the fear fact with Italy. One of the reasons that England are capable of winning it is because they have players who you should be afraid of and who can score goals and win games. And one of them was not playing here, right? The biggest one, Harry Kane, who is having an extraordinary season at Bayern Munich. And if ever there's going to be at this point of his career, the World cup that becomes his World cup, this is it, right? So I do think England are capable of winning it, but I think that puts them for me, in a pool of teams. That doesn't mean they're going to win it, but, yeah, I think they can win it.

[A]

I must admit, Barry, I absolutely loved Tuchel looking to his bench and just finding the two largest objects he could find and just lobbing them into the penalty area and thinking, I mean, I know they're nominally center back, but they created all sorts of. I mean, actually, given how the world set pieces are so important in international football. It may not be a stupid idea to have, you know, Maguire might be fifth choice center back, but instead of Chalabar and they don't start and if 10 minutes are left, they can still do a job at the back. I agree Dan Burns turning circle is, you know, questionable if up against Mbappe or, you know, Lemal or whoever. But you know, yes, I quite liked proper getting it launched for 10 minutes.

[B]

Yeah, it's not unthinkable that Harry Maguire or Dan Byrne or Trevor Chalaba could, you know, nick a last minute equalizer at a corner or from a free kick. So it's good to have that option. It's a bit Basic and Route 1, but who doesn't like to see it getting launched to the big man? You'd hope from an England perspective it wouldn't come to that, but it may well do and why not? Now, if I was too good, I'd be slightly concerned by the manner in which Japan, who I thought played very well actually, and Lara's mentioned there that if you're an international manager it's, you know, over complicating things and having these intricate passing moves is perhaps a bit ambitious. But I, I thought Japan did that very well. And the way they switched the ball out wide, then caught inside and got crosses or deliveries into the box, I was very impressed with them, I have to say.

[A]

And of course their f picked up all their litter. It's getting performative now, isn't it? They're not nice anymore. They just like oblige you to do it. They probably hate their parents, don't they? For like, for authentically picking up litter.

[C]

Could we develop some kind of dressing room cleaning one upmanship, hair. Like will we start trying to like be the best at that as well? Will that be the next. The marginal gain will be to get the fumigators in. Like get painted. Yeah, yeah, paint it, redecorate it really. Like maybe put in some new hot tubs, subs, really just leave it nicer than when you arrived.

[A]

It was a tough call between Cole Palmer and Phil Foden, but Cole Palmer can growl a bathroom and so he's in and he's going to the States anyway. Of course we'll do a lot more England during the World cup until we get knocked out on penalty. Scotland lost one nil in their friendly with Cote d'. Ivoire. Nicholas Pepe scored the only goal of the game. Scotland were booed off at the break. Ewan Murray said in his match report, they're lacking quality up top, which I think you could.

[B]

Could.

[A]

You probably Bass could say, what, since Dal Gleesh.

[D]

When.

[A]

When was the last brilliant Scotland center Forward or number 10, Maveny Scott McTominay, generous. The Cote d', Ivoire, Japan, the teams they've both played are not bad football teams. Right. And you know, Scotland's group is about beating Haiti by a lot and then clinging on to Brazil and Morocco. Right. Who are very. Two very good football teams elsewhere. Jenny Vetino says Iran will be at the World Cup. He announced on Tuesday they'll play their group matches in the US as scheduled. Despite the war. He made an unannounced appearance at yesterday's friendly between Iran and Costa Rica, and he said Iran will be at the World Cup. That's why we're here. We're delighted because they're a very, very strong team. I'm very happy. I've seen the team, I've spoken to the players and the coach, so everything is fine. It sort of feels like he's making promises that perhaps aren't his to make.

[B]

Well, that's. That's what I'm wondering. This is the first I've heard of this, but is it his decision to make whether Iran play at the World cup or not? And then if they do play, will their fans be allowed attend matches? Will their players be allowed into the country? A lot of questions.

[C]

I mean, they have to. I mean, this is the basic requirement for being a World cup host. If you don't let the participating nations and their fans into the country, then someone else needs to host the World Cup. Like, this should be a very simple conversation. I think with Johnny and Infantino's FIFA, it might not be a simple conversation because ethics are kind of out the window a little bit.

[A]

If both the USA and Group D and Iran in Group G finishes runners up in their group, they're scheduled to play each other. So. Which would be fascinating. Of course, you know, the war is still happening, so, you know, Donald Trump says every week it'll be finished next week. He's a bit. He's back to the grouters of the shower, isn't it? It's a bit like the builders doing your kitchen. It'll be done next week. But anyway, it's a pretty grim sit, isn't it? The other two qualifiers, the last two qualifiers are Dr. Congo, who beat Jamaica 1 nil. Axel Tuanzebe with the only goal in extra time. That game was in Mexico and Iraq beat Bolivia 2 1. Lars.

[C]

Yeah, huge for Iraq, obviously, Who are their players? And they have quite a lot of players who play in the domestic league in Iraq as well. So some extraordinary scenes for them. And also like Dr. Congo, I think it's their first World cup, isn't it? I mean, they were in there as zaire back in 74, but as Dr. Congo, I don't think they've qualified before and I was looking. There's quite a decent players on both teams here. Jamaica, really not sure how Jamaica managed to not finish About Curacao and their qualifying group when they've got like quite a lot of good players. I mean, I think they were led by Steve McLaren then. I mean, he has some things to answer for here. Both of these teams are pretty decent, Dr. Congo and Jamaica and will be a fine addition to the World Cup. But yeah, great free race.

[A]

Yeah. Dr. Congo will have Portugal, Colombia and Uzbekistan. Iraq joins Senegal, Norway and France. Graham Arnold, former Socceroo manager, is Iraq's manager at the moment. And that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll talk about Roberto de Zerbi getting his five year deal as Tottenham manager. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Tottenham have appointed Roberto de Zerbi as their manager, their third manager of the season following the departure of Igor Tudor. His Premier League record played 71, 26 drawn, 19 lost 25. An average of 1.39 points a game, which spurs would probably take for these next seven games. They've given him a five year contract, which seems bizarre since he certainly hasn't ever stayed at a club for anywhere near that amount of time. There are two conversations here. There's the football conversation and the moral conversation. You, you had done some sort of a little bit of digging on what he's like when he first arrives at a club. Given Tottenham have seven games to maintain their Premier League status.

[C]

Well, if by doing some digging you mean read an interview with Lewis Dunk, then yes, there's some real dig. There are some quotes that have resurfaced and I think have been published in most outlets now because Louis Dunk in 2023 told the Telegraph that if I'm honest, the first couple of weeks were horrendous. Which given the importance of the first couple of. No, he says, I wouldn't say horrendous. They were baffling. The first meeting when he went in, I was so confused who to look at, what to listen to, and you slowly pick up. Basically, don't listen to the manager, wait for the translators to speak and you get there in the End. I mean, I'm hoping his English has gotten better since then. Training changed dramatically. We worked on a lot of different stuff and the first couple of weeks were really hard Transition maybe. This is all invalid because I'm assuming Roberto Di Sabri realises he's taking over a team that's in dire straits, that team that doesn't maybe have some of the types of players he would normally want to work with and that he has no time to implement anything and that he's just going to set them up in some kind of vague mid block and try to get them to win a game or two to not get relegated. I'm assuming there's enough of a pragmatist in him to not try to go full De Zerbi ball from the off because then spurs are getting relegated like if they do that. But does De Zerbi have a pragmatic bone in his body? Nicky, you.

[D]

I'm. I'm not sure, to be honest with you. I'm not sure that he does. He hasn't been pragmatic that often in his career. He tends to do things his way and, and his way has been overall more successful than not, I suppose, with plenty of ups and downs, but certainly some bright parts of the, of the Brighton chapter. Certainly the getting Marseille into the Champions League was, was a significant feat. But yes, it's, it is a very intense kind of football, it is a very demanding kind of football. It is a kind of football that, that raises questions about how quickly be installed. But this is why, I'm sure this is part of why he's wound up with a five year contract to come back to Max's surprise about all that. The reason he's got a five year contract I do not doubt is because he held all of the leverage in this conversation. Deserteby was probably quite happy to sit out and wait until the end of the season and wait for a different opportunity, but Tottenham absolutely, desperately need a manager right now and I haven't been privy to the details this contract, but if I was a manager taking over there right now, I think I'd probably want a contract. That said both you have to pay me for a long time, this goes wrong, but also I have an option to walk away and, and I don't know if he's got that, but if, if I was negotiating for him in that position, I think that's what I would have asked for. So it certainly feels like the stakes are, are as high as they can be for Tottenham, but at the same time, even With a generous contract, I'm certain he hasn't taken it on unless he believes he can turn this into a, a success and, and, and get them out and then be the person who gets to take the project forward. It.

[B]

He's got a five year deal, there's an old break clause and it makes him the third highest paid manager in the Premier League after Pep and Mikel Arteta.

[A]

And is he that good? I mean that's the status. I mean I, I agree with Nikki. He's got the leverage.

[B]

Look, spurs were desperate. I have no idea whether he keep them up or not or even if they do keep stay up, how much of it will be down to him. When he started at Palermo, he won once in his first 13 games. When he started at Viento, none of his first nine. When he started at Brighton, he drew two and lost three of his first five spurs games. Remaining games are Sunderland away, Brighton, Wolves away, Villa away, Leeds, Chelsea away and Everton. They're all tough games.

[A]

Sorry, I was, I was, I was hoping for just like a bit of hope at the end of that sentence. Barry. It just ended.

[B]

There you go. Yes.

[C]

Lars, if this was last sun summer, this was in the middle of the summer. Ange is gone. You have like the sixth, seventh biggest budget in the league and what you want is someone who has a bit of X factor about him, who could potentially elevate the club above his stature. Someone who is a tactical innovator, someone who has a high potential upside but a downside, but someone who could in the best case scenario lead you to punching above your weight. I don't think the Zerbi is a bad bet. If that's the situation, I think that would be a very logical step to go down. But that is not the current situation. The current situation is that you haven't won in 13 or something. Half the squad is injured and by the way, all the guys who are good on the ball are amongst the injured. You're hiring a guy who famously likes to produce like intricate passing patterns. With a team that's famously bad at passing. It's a very, very strange choice. Like if they'd just gotten a safe pair of hands to get them across the finish line and not get them relegated and gotten someone like the Zerbi in the summer, I'd be, that would be logical. But for him to come in, he's going to have to do things differently than he's done before, that's for sure. He definitely doesn't have the time or the players to do all the stuff he wants to do immediately. So you are hiring someone and you're betting your Premier League status on him being able to do something different than what he's been successful with in the past. That doesn't feel good. I do think he's a very good manager in a lot of ways, but it seems like a very dangerous time to appoint someone like him. I mean, you can just imagine now you got Joao Polynha and Kevin Dunzo baiting the press and trying to this sounds terrible. I'm terrified of that. That's not what you want to see.

[A]

No. And also if the general view is, you know, he's not necessarily the guy to keep them up, wait till the summer because there'll be lots of managers available of which Roberto de Zerbi is one, and you have more leverage and you don't have to give him a five year contract anyway. That's the football part of it of it and the moral part of it. The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust held an emergency meeting on board meeting on Monday night and they contacted the club say they can't support the appointment. While we recognize the limited pool of managers with recent Premier League experience and the need to act with urgency, the spurs face the prospect of relegation. This appointment raises serious and far reaching concerns. Many fans have been in touch with us to urge to communicate the strength of feeling does Irby's comments about Mason Greenwood were unnecessary, ill judged and deeply offensive to a significant number of supporters and without doubt will have left victims of male violence alarmed. We believe these statements left unchecked will create a divide amongst supporters at a time when we all need to be pulling together to back the team. It is concerning that the club would put us in this position right when the team needs fans the most. Fans are rallying behind altogether always initiative and this appointment places heavy strain on that unity. If those remarks reflect his genuine views, they cast a troubling shadow over the values of a club we love. Deserbi on Greenwood said said I don't want to get involved in anyone's private life. I don't even get into the private lives of my children because I want to give everyone their freedom, he told a pre match news conference. All I can say is that Mason seems a good lad. He paid in a strong way for what happened. He has probably here found the right environment for him which gave him affection and held out his hand to him. When I look at him as a person I feel sad for what happened in his life without getting into the details because the person I Know here is very different to the one that has been described, especially in England. It is important that we say that. Mason Greenwood was charged in 2022 with attempted rape, controlling and coercive behavior and assault occasioning actual bodily harm. The Crown Prosecution Service discontinued the case in February 2023 after key witnesses withdrew their involvement and new material came to light. Greenwood had denied the charges. And it is on one hand, Barry, not complicated at all. But there is a sliding scale of morality and you have to be careful without talking about names. But football has a terrible relationship with domestic and sexual violence. There are former Tottenham players who are lauded who have been accused of domestic violence. There are players who play now who have been accused of sexual assault. And we haven't had statements from the Trust. At the same time, in a world where almost no morality exists, it feels good that a club of supporters group have come out and said, we don't like a thing that is bad.

[B]

That.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Three different fan groups have said they don't want Deserby in charge because of his support for. For Greenwood who a player who faced accusations of rape and domestic violence. I would wholeheartedly disagree with his assertion that Greenwood has paid a heavy price for what happened because I would say he hasn't paid any price at all. He's currently thriving in. I also would up to a point say, kind of agree with Deservingly saying my experience of him is a great lad. He's sort of saying, I take people as I find them and. And I find him to be a nice guy. But we've all seen. Heard the tape, we've all seen the pictures and it's a matter of fact, I think that at his opening press conference as spurs manager, De Zerbi is going to have to field a load of questions about Mason Greenwood. And is that how you want to start the new reign of this new manager who's been brought into Savior Club? You would think it should be quite easy to just hire a manager who hasn't openly supported someone who has been accused of domestic violence and sexual assault. Fault. It shouldn't be that hard. But it is also important. Jerby hasn't been accused of any of these things. He's just spoken up for a player.

[A]

Yeah. Nikki, what do you make of that?

[D]

I think it just feels like another reason to not make a decision when you know, amongst all the other reasons we've just talked about in footballing terms, that there's lots of footballing questions about it. If you know that your fan base is supposed to an appointment that feels like another good reason not to make the decision before we even enter into the merits of it, which I think Barry has spoken to quite well there. I do think these issues are really fraught because there is not going to be one universal opinion among Tottenham's fan base on it. I can only speak to how I would feel about it and I would feel very uneasy about it as a fan. So I certainly position myself with all those people who've spoken up against it. And I think it's also quite a brave thing to do to speak up against it when you're a fan group, because I also recognise that those groups that, as Barry said, three supporters groups who voice their opinions about it, I believe that there were the Tottenham women's supporters group, there was a LGBTQ group, and there was also a group that was a supporters group that centres on diversity in fan groups more generally. And those are groups that already might not always have universal support from their own supporters group, and you risk putting yourself up there and getting blowback for that opinion as well. So, I don't know. I think it's a situation that could have been avoided. I don't know how to say it better than that.

[C]

I really get what you said, Max, about how it feels at times as if football has become this completely amoral space. And there's something almost reassuring about having fan groups who actually. Because the cliche about fans is that they won't care as long as you're winning games. I mean, the thing Harry Redknapp once said about, like, fans would be perfectly happy to have Saddam Hussein own their club if they put money in and they win games. You know, there's only one Saddam Hussein. And certainly, certainly we have examples in recent times of fan bases being perfectly happy to accept whatever involvement your club has, as long as it brings more success. So I just think in this case, it was heartening to see the fan groups make such a strong statement as that. And it's also just. I think you can end up, like, if you want to coach at the highest level, you can end up in a situation where you have people in your squad who has been the subject of accusations, proven or not proven. And that can be a difficult thing to, like, maneuver. But you make choices in terms of what you decide to say out loud, like, no one's. He might have been in a position where, like, you don't necessarily pick the ingredients. As a head coach, maybe it wasn't his decision to bring him in, whatever, but it's certainly his decision what kind of tone he chooses to adapt when talking about him in public. And that applies to other coaches in the game and other players as well. I'm not sure what we're allowed to say, I'm not allowed to say, but it always occurs to me that you have a choice in terms of how you talk about these things. And he has certainly made a choice that I think he'll have to find some good answers for. And really it's another reason with all these uncertainties around his viability as a short term appointment, like just that factor alone, the fact that you're bringing in someone who will very obviously be divisive is kind of, this is not a great time to hire a very divisive guy when you have seven games left to save your status in the Premier League. Like it's a slightly baffling decision to me.

[A]

Yeah, I, yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, and, and I, and I've written a few pieces about this, this kind of thing and they're impossible to write because you can't name any names generally. And so you have to be so vague that your article doesn't really make sense or if you do name somebody, the lawyers get involved so much. But by the time your article has been published, it reads to you like some sort of PR piece. I can't, I won't name the place player now, but on one specific player who was bought by a club and everyone said, oh, he's not just a great footballer, but he's just a wonderful human being. And I was, I was sort of screaming going, why is no one saying, well there was this thing, right, that happened and as somebody who's done a lot of work for women's aid and you know, who work with survivors of domestic and sexual abuse and it's for most of us who are, are, have never ever seen this or been, have any idea about how this exists, it's so much more complicated. You know, you have a, Until I sort of listened to survivors about it, you have such a sort of basic view of oh well, just leave that relationship. You just leave, wouldn't you? Or things like the really stupid sort of binary views of this kind of thing. Like it's just so important to like listen to survivors of, of this kind of, of, of domestic and sexual abuse. And I saw an excellent tweet which I, I, I probably going to misquote but just said it's, it's, it is. If you think it is woke to support survivors of domestic and sexual abuse, then the Internet has rotted your brain. That is certainly my view of this situation.

[C]

But yeah, also just fundamentally, I think if we've learned anything from the last few years of the world men saying the phrase like I've. I know about the allegations but he seems like a nice guy. Like, I just get that in the. You should never say that sentence out loud ever. The second you ever say that sentence out loud, you're in the wrong and you need to have a think about a lot of things.

[A]

Yeah, I completely agree. Anyway, that will do for today. Thanks everybody covered a wide range of stuff, as we always do. And again, commiserations again. Nicky, I don't know if you can turn yourself into an England fan for the world. I wouldn't advise it actually thinking about it, but, you know, just. Just delays the pain. But thanks for coming on.

[D]

I've always been happy for England when they went as well. I'm half English. I'm as as much English as Italian. I don't disguise that. I more Italian when it comes to football. But I'm not going to be definitely not going to be sad for England. Do well.

[A]

I hope they do as Barry does. Of course. Thank you, Barry.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Cheers, Lars.

[C]

Thank you, Max.

[A]

Football Weekly is produced by Ty Papula and Jesse Howard. Our executive producer is. Joel Grove will be back tomorrow.

[B]

This is the Guardian.