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Leeds make winning Premier League return, plus a Euro roundup – Football Weekly
00:57:36
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Archie Rhind-Tutt, Philippe Auclair and Sid Lowe to discuss Leeds, Barça, Bayern and more
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- [00:00]
A
This is the Guardian.
- [00:13]
B
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. First to Elland Road. A game of attack versus defence. Settled by a penalty. A James Tarkovsky handball. Stand by for my shock verdict. And then let's cover Europe. Sidlow drops in for a lazy cameo as Barca win easily on the opening day. Rashford watch. Alonso watch. And his love for Nico Williams and Oviedo, of course. Archie's here on the eve of the Bundesliga season. Will Luis Diaz have a nice time with Harry Kane just adding Erik 10 Hag outweigh losing Alonso, Frimpong, Wirtz and Xhaka at Leverkusen in France, a scratchy winning star for PSG and a defeat for Paris FC in their first top flight game for 46 years. All that plus your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello.
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C
Hi, Max.
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B
Archie Rintut Vil Common.
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D
Hello.
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B
And bienvenu Petit co Philippe Auclair.
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A
Merci. Is a bit naughty, really.
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B
Oh, is it really?
- [01:13]
E
Yeah, it is.
- [01:15]
B
Daria. Daria.
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E
Let's start.
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B
Ellen rogue that leads one. Everton nil. Petey says based on the first 45 minutes, was Barry in fact optimistic about Everton Crypto Palace Assume half the pod will just be you trying to explain the hand ball law. And Dave says H, longtime listener, please can we have a furious rant from you about how the handball law is broken, natural arm positions and how even when a defender stops the ball from going into the net with his arms, it still isn't a penalty. From a very happy Leeds fan, Dave in Leeds dav. He says from Leeds. So we'll start with the handball. Barry. I thought it was a penalty.
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C
You did?
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B
Yeah.
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C
I initially thought it was a penalty, then I kind of changed my mind. And then watching the postmatch analysis on Sky, Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher kind of changed my mind. Back again, the handball law we know is an absolute shambles and it's going to be the source of controversy throughout the season. It's already been the source of controversy in several games in the opening weekend. I think in this instance you can make a good argument as to why it was a handball and you can also make a good argument as to why it wasn't. It's a very subjective decision, so we're never going to have consistency in it. And the ref, in consultation with his assistant, seemed to decide it was. And I think on balance they were probably right. If it went against my team, I'd be annoyed. If it went for My team, I'd expect it to be given. And I'm glad it happened because if it hadn't, we would have very little to talk about as far as this game is concerned. I understand why Everton fans are mad, but. And this is irrelevant to the debate in hand, pun not intended, I think they got exactly what they deserved from that game, which is nothing.
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B
Yeah, I agree. Dale Johnson, who is, you know, the man to go to, tweeted the James Tarkovsky penalty decision isn't about arm position, but how he leans into the path of the shot and blocks it with his arm, regardless of the arm being close to the body. This can be seen as handball. Once given, very difficult for the VAR to get involved. If Tarkovsky was standing still and retracting his arm, then his arm position, God, this is fascinating stuff. His arm position would mean this shouldn't be a penalty. But it's all in the movement of the body and the weight of the on field decision. I mean, that's the thing, Philippe, the thing that infuriates me is when you know it's like half a yard away. But he's got time. Tarkovsky in this situation, he's got plenty of time.
- [03:53]
A
And he actually definitely leans towards the trajectory of the ball, which is deflected, which is perhaps the only excuse I could find for him because when I saw it, I thought, that's a stonewall penalty. He's definitely diving to his left to stop the ball and he happens to stop it with his arm, which is actually not exactly against his body. It's not extending the arm, but he's extending his body in a position which means that the arm is extended, if you see what I mean. I find it extraordinary that this has been discussed for so long and actually we're still doing it. And also because the role of var, the VAR can only redress the decision, change it if it is a clear and obvious error. It is not a clear and obvious error. It is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of, of the, of the laws of football. So it's a handball, it's a penalty. And to be honest, Everton, what did they show?
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B
I know. I mean, I would say stonewall. Stonewall is perhaps pushing it, but I don't know. Sort of chipboard. No, but chipboard wall. I mean, that's sort of maybe like a, A timber. A timber wall penalty. I don't know, like. Like it's not quite as certain as stone. But you, you take my point. Maybe I should stop this analogy. But anyway, like, Barry and Philippe are right. Archie Leeds were really good. It did feel like attack versus defect, like from the minute the game started. And okay, you expect Leeds to like push at the start but it didn't really change. Certainly the first half like, like Everton did nothing.
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D
It felt like Daniel Farker had given the, the Braveheart speech in the dressing room because Leeds just went charge and were just swarming all over Everton for that first half. The fact that they didn't have a shot on goal tells you something. I felt for Everton in the fact that they were without a recognized fullback, that Garner and o' Brien are not meant to be playing there, that they were suffering from the injury of Michalenko and needing more recruits. Although Everton fans are scratching their heads I think at the fact that, that they sign a 19 year old left back in Adam Asnu from Bayern Munich and he's not to be seen. Particularly when he came on for Michalenko in the friendly against Roma last week. I think Everton still have some transfer work to do. As for, I was really pleased for Daniel Farker because let's not forget there were question marks over whether he would start this Premier League season with Leeds despite having got them promoted. And from the last time I saw him on a touchline really, which I know he got them promoted last season but Borussia mentioned Gladbach. This was the complete opposite of what his Gladbach side showed. They were kind of bottom of all the statistics for Sprints, amount of running that they do tackling and this was all action football. The way that they used the crowd I think was so important and similar I would say in the way to Sunderland's victory at the weekend as well. And I think it's interesting that if you look at the promoted sides from last season, their first victories came in October, November and November and already two of them have got the monkey off their back early on, which I think is encouraging. Albeit I think they were helped by the fact that they got this Everton side on the opening day and that West Ham side on the opening day.
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B
Yeah, I mean that's an interesting point actually Barry. I mean probably less so Burnley, but if you think about for everyone else going to Sunderland, going to Leeds, you don't fear going to Southampton or Leicester particularly. It's not saying they don't have good atmosphere sometimes, but there is something about the stadium lines. That's it. And Ellen Road last night that is just. It just has a. Like a real. It's fierce. Right?
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C
Yeah. And that the atmosphere at Ellen Road is famously febrile and Everton, I don't think it's unfair to say look, look cowed by it, particularly in the first half. They were a bit better in the second half, but Leeds kept him pretty much at arm's length. I think Jacob Ryan had her in a Charlie Alcaraz shot from a narrow angle where there are only chances of no Ellen Road and. And the stadium alight are intimidating places to go. I guess Turf Moor is as well. Is it. Is it a northern thing? I don't know. The atmosphere in Premier League grounds is, apart from a few exceptions, is often.
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B
Just very anodyne, isn't it?
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C
And anodyne. Thank you.
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D
Yeah, that's what I was now thinking. What's the. What's the most southernly ground which. Which can really kind of put teams in?
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C
Millwall Selhurst park, probably.
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B
Yeah, Millwall Selhurst Park. I think that's palace is. Is a good shout, isn't it? But I think that's. I think that's an interesting point. And I suppose Philippe is. Is a lot of these players, because you're trying to think is, you know, are players used to big atmospheres and. Sure they are, but maybe some of these players are not necessarily used to. I don't know if we're putting too much impact on that and just not enough on how well coached Leeds are. And you know, non to looks exciting and Dan James looks exciting and all those.
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A
I think it's more to do with the way that it has an impact on the home side than on the away side. I think the away side, they're used to it. They.
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D
They.
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A
This is what they do for. For a living. What happens is that suddenly they've got in front of them. I mean, as Ashley was saying, it's a, you know, suddenly it's Braveheart. They go berserk. They have got this extra 2 or 3% in intensity which they get from the crowd. Just like being a musician and having a great crowd, you're going to have a great gig. If the crowd is behind you, you're going to be better. And I think it's this increased level, simple as that. Increased level in intensity in the challenges in the fact that when they go for a 50, 50 ball, it becomes a 52, 48 ball, it becomes a Brexit ball. And I think this has the impact rather than, oh my goodness, look, they're so loud. I can't play football anymore. No, it just leads to an increase in intensity, an increase in tempo and the sense I think of you get suffocated by what is going on, it becomes relentless and in this way it affects you. I don't think the effect comes from psychological impact of hostility that you feel from the stands. It's more how it transfers to the home side and I would say boundaries to go beyond what it normally does.
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D
Despite having named Millwall and nodded along to Crystal Palace, I think there is something about these stadiums as well, that Elland Road and the Stadium of Light, they kind of hulk over you as stadiums. And you feel that on the TV as well in a way that those grounds that Selhurst park and the new Den don't. And yeah, I still agree with Philippe as well that, that it does seem to get that extra 10% out of the home side. And also, just a word for Anton Stach.
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B
Do you know his. Do you know his father, Archie?
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D
No, why?
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B
Okay, because on the commentary they said he's a very well known football and tennis journalist in Germany. And so I took a note going, I wonder if Archie knows Anton Stack's dad. He could have been a tennis player. Stack and then he chose football. Should you know his dad? Anyway, anyway, talk about the player because I was really, I was really impressed with him.
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D
Maybe I've met. Well, it was his shot that, that caused this, this penalty as well. And he had a couple of shots from range and he's been in the discussion to play, to play more for Germany, but has got too many people ahead of him right now. And I think that will still remain the case, particularly with Joshua Kimmish being mooted for the central midfield spots again by Julian Nagelsmann. But he's got such great anticipation on the ball and his timing of. The timing of his tacklings. I guess that's what anticipation is. You look at the way that he's able to have the game in.
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E
Like.
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D
Have a really good overview of the game and see how things are going. And he's been a very stable player for Hoffenheim in the last two seasons in a team which has been very chaotic. And I think that actually those are good characteristics to have when you're going into this kind of organized chaos that Daniel Farker was demanding of his team. So, yeah, I think a very impressive debut.
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B
Matthias Stack is his dad and his.
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C
Grandfather was a wrestler called Giant. He.
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A
Yes, just a quick word about a player that I absolutely love to watch and who genuinely looks like he's playing in the wrong team. And it's Yong Ndi again. The only thing that actually made me feel somewhat sympathetic towards Everton last night, which is Strange is the way that he was trying to make things happen. He was trying to go past players, he was proactive. He's got absolutely beautiful feet. But I wonder what he's doing in that team. You really have to wonder what he's doing if they're going to play that way, which is a pity. He's an absolutely lovely player. I'm sure the Everton fans absolutely love him. But honestly, the fact that he couldn't produce anything, he would manage to go past two players, create some space. There was nobody to pass the ball to, there was nobody to receive the ball in the box. There never was a solution for him. So even when they made a little difference thanks to a bit of individual brilliance or, or skill, there was still nothing to build on. It's really awful.
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B
Yeah. And actually Barry, you know, because you predicted everything to go down but. And despite the, you know, the atmosphere at Leeds, if you're going to a game, if you're going to Leeds and you're going to sort of play that defensively, there are a lot of teams in the Premier League that are on paper better than Leeds. Like Everton fans I think who've come in buoyed with his enthusiasm and grealish. That might be quite a sort of. That's just, you know, it's a reality check. I know it's only the first game, but I think there might be less enthusiasm now.
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C
Look, it's one game and they weren't good and they do need signings. But we've seen Everton be down amongst the dead men at far later point in the season in previous years and they always seem to circle the drain, but they never go down. You know, they might struggle this season. I think they will. I've seen Everton fans predict them to finish as high as 7th, 8th and I cannot see that happening at all.
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B
It's great that two of the promoted teams have won already and hopefully it'll be much more competitive at that end of the Premier League. Unless of course, Sunderland and Leeds, you know, embark on mid table or higher.
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C
Leeds need a striker desperately. They really, really do.
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A
Can I ask you a question, Max? Can I ask you what the hell is this thing about Harrison? Why is he so hated? Because he actually went on loan to Everton and then he came back to Leeds. I just don't understand. He's a wonderful player. He had a real impact when he came on for Leeds. And what they hate about him is the fact that when they were relegated, he was loaned out to Everton and then has gone back. I mean I'm sorry but I, I, my, I can't put, get my head around this one. Did he say something disrespectful?
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B
I don't know. I don't know. But, but it did for a while because I obviously had, I had, you know, one eye on this and one eye on whatever. The Australian spin off Lloyd Griffith spinoff of Death in Paradise on the, on the big tv. I just presumed he was playing for Everton until I looked down. I was like, oh, he's playing for Leeds. That's interesting, isn't it? Bournemouth have signed Ben Doak, had a great season at Middlesbrough, has looked very good in a Scotland shirt. Um, and perhaps will replace Wittaro who's gone to Brentford. Speaking of Brentford, Johan Whisser has done a very modern footballer thing and has removed all association with Brentford from his Instagram account.
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D
I saw someone say, why are footballers now acting more and more like 14 year olds after a moody breakup.
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B
Yeah, exactly. Got to keep our eyes on producer Joel's Insta account, the way he removes that. Christian Romero signed a new deal at spurs keeping it till 2029. I presume it has a release clause but perhaps surprised that he didn't go to Athletic this summer. You know he's won the World Cup. Messi likes him. It's a good thing for Tottenham. Archie, a Fulham minute. Presume the 96th minute at the annex is the minute you'd like to talk about.
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D
I'm so stunned that it's come so early.
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B
Yeah, I know.
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D
Yeah. Rodrigo Muniz Money Mooney's My Heart Sings. I've spoken about it before but I'll gladly speak about him again because he arrived four years ago back up to Alexander Mitrovic and took him a while to settle. Was sent out on loan to Middlesbrough where he had a very unhappy season long loan and people were wondering, well, is he ever going to make it? And then when he scores away at Burnley season before last, he breaks down in tears because the emotion of it all and I think seeing that really took him into the hearts of many Fulham fans as did the goal streak that he then went on and last season scoring seven goals off the bench, nine in total. And there's been all this talk about him going to Atalanta and us Fulham fans have been up in arms, we don't want Rodrygo to go. So the fact that he scores in the 96th minute away at Brighton, coming off the bench and then a scarf is thrown to him and he holds it up which says, come on Fulham and everyone's talking about now. Well, he can't leave. That's not the action of someone who would want to leave, is it? Sky Sports reports this week that Rodrigo Muniz is still open to a move to Champions League Atalanta. Oh, no. So, yeah, we're still sweating a bit, but it was very nice to see. And yeah, I think Fulham will be fine this season. I think, as Barry says, 11th, he predicted it last season. I think we're probably about there. Again, not a problem with it.
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B
Does Muniz have still open to going to Atalanta on Wednesday? Is that his buyer?
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D
Yes, the social media. The social media of Muniz suggests that he's happy as well. It's a painful 12 days ahead, max.
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B
Okay. Really keep staring at it. All right, that'll do for part one. Sid Low will join us for part two. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Ben says can the halftime extravaganza at the live show be the pod regulars singing the Monorail song from the Simpsons?
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E
Oh, absolutely.
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B
We're in with rehearsals already every day and then we're doing Hamilton to finish it all off. 11 September, the troxy in London. Jonathan Wilson, Nikki Bandini, Johnny Lou Barry, of course. Tickets can be purchased@theguardian.com Football Weekly Live. We are live streaming the show as well. Producer Joel yesterday had a brilliant idea, so that is worth the ticket alone. But, you know, unless you come, you won't know. Welcome then, Sid Lowe.
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E
Hello.
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B
Great, it's nice to have you on. Best we should we start with Barca beat Mallorca three nil away from home. The front three, Feren, Rafinha, Yamau, all scored. It's quite a good start to the season, really.
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E
Yeah, it is. The context to this, or at least maybe context isn't quite the right word. But the. The focus to to this has really all been about the refereeing decisions and in particular one in which Barcelona scored a goal while Antonio Raila, the. The central defender from Mallorca was on the floor holding his head because he'd headed away a shot. I say he'd headed.
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B
It's a mad decision.
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E
It hit him very, very hard and he collapsed the floor. I think you could probably get away with this decision if you just don't give anything. But the referee kind of puts his whistle in his mouth and sort of looks at him for about five or six seconds and actually looks as if he has given it. And when it drops to Ferran, he scores in a very kind of, oh, he's blown it. Sod it. I'll just put. Put this in the top corner sort of way, rather than a real shot, if you see. I mean, it's a brilliant shot, for what it's worth. And then suddenly it's given the whole stadium's like, oh, hang on. So that annoys Meorcha. The second goal of. Of a pretty good start for Barcelona anyway, that then gets. Because of the. The annoyance and the arguments about it, it gets the first of a. A double yellow card for. For Murray. He then gets sent off. Vera Marichi gets sent off. So bar end up playing against nine men and in the last minute. You mean Lamin almost called in Yamin Lamar, which everyone's doing these days. It's a. Turned into a tongue twister. Scores a brilliant, brilliant winner. So the focus then becomes him a little bit as well. But it's a good start for. For Barcelona.
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B
Yeah. I mean, it's a mad decision, isn't it? Because he is. He's not unconscious, but he is just so flat on the floor, like, man, flat on the floor. It look. When you just look at a picture thinking that looks weird. And I mean, I guess there must be, you know, afterwards, you know, somebody saying, well, if they'd been the other way around, they'd have blown that sort of feeling. Is the smaller club, I guess. Yeah.
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E
I mean. I mean, in a way, that's the problem. Well, it's not the problem. Obviously. The fundamental problem is whether or not decisions are right and how well games are refereed. But then you get the. If, like the kind of. The. The problem that goes with it. And, and this is always the case, I guess it's the case everywhere that question of, you know, a bigger club, but in Spain, even more so, of course, because everything is. Is seen through the prism of. Of refereeing favors, through the prism of, you know, oh, they all support Real Madrid or they support Barcelona, and depending which side of the divide you're on, you then kind of make a big thing about this. Obviously, in the, in the Barcelona case, the, the sort of. The background for this story is still the. The famous Negreda case when Barcelona were playing vice president of the referees committee over, I think it was 17 years. And so that kind of rears its head all the time, even though it's kind of no longer relevant. And the other part of this, Max, is that this summer Spain did a complete overhaul of their refereeing system. Series of things change. So, for example, they don't name the referees now until one day before the game as a way of trying to protect them from, from this kind of constant onslaught of, of attack in the build up to the game. And that's a response really to Rams, your tv, who do these very kind of deep voice, dramatic videos about what an evil man the referee is and how he's going to screw us this weekend. And they, and they, they. So they do that. They, they've done that change. They've changed it now so that the VAR referees are only VAR referees. So in theory they will be specialists. It's run by different people. There's. There's a Freeman committee now that names the referee for the games. But my favorite change to the refereeing structure. And I'm glad actually that you brought up the referees at the very start, which I always try and avoid the referee thing. But I really love this particular change of the refereeing structure. Spain had this weird thing and they've now changed it. And it seems even weirder. In the past, referees in Spain were always known by two names, and that's their two surnames. Spanish people have two surnames, their father's surname and their mother's surname. They were known by their two surnames only. So for example, you would have the referee so bad, they named him twice, Mr. Ananda Fernandez. And you. And the referees were known by their two surnames. This summer, in a bid to, in a bit, to humanize the referees, they decided, we're not doing this anymore. We're going to call the referees by their first name and their surname. So the guy that screwed me all the. At the weekend. Last year they would have blamed Mueira Montero, this year they blamed Jose Luis Munuera.
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B
Right?
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E
So it's totally changed everything. It's absolutely finer now. Obviously, for a country, for a country that loves to call people sons of bitches, you now say, well, which of the two. So hang on, which. Who, who's. Who's the. You know, who's the person who. Anyway, so don't worry, everything's fine because referees are now known by only one of their signings and their first name. So you can now call them Dave or Barry. It's absolutely fine.
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B
I look forward to when it's just their first name. And as you know, the referee is just Juan. And you're like, okay, great. This is really personal now, isn't it?
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E
What is it?
- [24:18]
B
Rashford came on and he came on down the middle because presumably he's not going to displace Rafinha or Yamau. What's his, you know, how is he being viewed at the moment?
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E
Well, I mean, the answer to the question is, presumably he's not going to replace Rafinha or Lamine, is. Is that he is occasionally. And I think fundamentally his value to them is that he allows them to rotate through all of those forward positions, in theory. Now, obviously, you guys have seen him play a lot more than me, and whether or not he's really suited to playing on the right hand side and how suited he is to playing through the middle in a team that kind of is technical in tight spaces, I think probably my feeling at least is, and to correct me if I'm wrong, that he'd be good through the middle in a team that can go beyond people, but maybe in those tight spaces less so. So he came on in the middle of the weekend, but then went out to the left a couple of times. I think the main thing really is that he gives them variety and volume in the. In the forward line and can play in any of those three positions because for what it's worth, a more natural replacement for, for, for Levandowski up front is Fran Taurus, who started there this weekend. So I think, I think Rashford's role will be a bit of all of those things and then I guess there will then be a response to kind of how well he plays in certain positions, because I think it's not impossible, for example, that we see him take Rafinha's place on the left and then it's Rafinha that comes inside and it's the Rafinha that plays a little bit more centrally. I thought he looked a little bit out of place, which I suppose is natural on the first weekend. Had a couple of moments, but not. Not a huge amount. And I think that's it really, from, from a Barcelona point of view, is that Rashford is there to be useful and maybe to turn out to be really, really good, but to begin with, at least to be useful.
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B
The big surprise was Athletic losing. What did you make of that?
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E
I feel like we're in this kind of cycle where, where we have these, these conversations all the time. Everybody is about Atletico Madrid evolving into something different and being different and being on the front foot. And now that they've got money and now that they're not this able to play this underdog game and talk about going direct and being strong and fighting against the power because they spent a hell of a lot of money. I think it's 300, 338 million euros, if I remember rightly. Across the last two summers. Now they bought a load of players. This summer, again, they're attacking players. They very much went for young players and for about 70 minutes against Espanol, they played on the front foot. They were. They were a bit more attacking and then it kind of fell apart. They got caught out, very little bit. Lucky. I'm lucky, I suppose, in a way. They got caught up by. By a couple of deliveries. One a set play, another across from the right hand side and conceded two goals and then sort of didn't know what to do. I also think that, you know, that eternal debate about what, who are they, what they want to be, how they want to play will be there. But I think they, they were actually reasonably good in this game without being brilliant. I think that's the other thing is that happens with Atletico is that when, when they do play on the front foot, I think people exaggerate it and also think people sometimes exaggerate how defensive they are when they're not playing on the front foot. I think this is kind of. It's almost kind of a. There's this sort of truism about Atletico Madrid and they got caught out by. By an Espanol side who. I enjoyed this because they, they basically played a bit direct and, and talking to Marcus Dmitrovic after the game, the. The goalkeeper, this is, this is, this is brilliant. And basically he says, well, you've got to play Brexit football. That's such a cliche that I just used there. So, sorry, Sid. You know, a couple of big. A couple of big guys up front and put the ball in the box can cause you problems. So there you go.
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D
I just wanted to ask Sid. We take it as given that Diego Simeone just keeps on going at Atletico Madrid, but I just wanted to know from your perspective, how close has he ever come to leaving in the time that he's been there? Because I remember there's always a time when a big position would come up in European football and his name would be one of the ones linked. And I just wondered how, how close that has ever really come to. To happening. But also what's the appetite, I guess, for just even more Simeone at Atletico?
- [28:13]
E
I mean, it's a really difficult question to answer because I think, look, the answer to it is that. I think the first thing is, that is the context, which is to say that I don't think the moment that Simeone goes really depends on another big job coming up. I don't think it's about that. I think it's about him and Atletico more than about that. I think there have been a couple of moments. Obviously, the really famous one was after the second European Cup Final, Milan, which I think hurt him so much that he admitted that he was thinking about it, and everyone was desperate, desperate, desperate for him to stay. Now that has shifted a little bit, and there have been moments over the last few years when people have thought, you know what, it maybe wouldn't be a bad thing if. If. If he walked, if we had a different approach, if there was a. If there was a sort of freshening up of it. But I think what's happened, of course, and. And maybe there's a parallel with Wenger here that there's this idea that we can't, you know, you can't push him out. He has to be allowed to make his decision because of everything he's done and everything he represents. And then in those moments when people start to think that, then there tends to be a moment when they start to play well again, when they start to really compete again, and people think, actually maybe he is the right guy. I think. I think if there was a way in which he could go and everyone feel like it was the. The right moment and the right time, that. That everybody could feel like it was nobody's fault. And that's part of the problem is, is managing the departure. How do you say goodbye? How do you make this happen the right way? Then? I think there is a way that people could kind of move on relatively easily, but they absolutely love him, of course. And from a. From a. From a cynical club point of view, I think he's been quite useful for the club in a way, because he has been the guy, if you like, that is everything that symbolizes everything. So the club's mistakes can be hidden behind him, but he can be the guy that kind of holds it all together. Simeone said something I thought was quite interesting before the weekend's game, and he was asked about his time at the club. This is the, you know, the beginning of his 15th season, albeit the first season, was only six months. And he said, look, there's been times in. In my. My period here where the team grew quicker than the club, and then the club caught up, he said, and then the club grew quicker than the team. So, you know, the amount of money being invested was better than what the team was doing, that the stability of the club, I mean, because he's totally changed the club through their success. But obviously, that's about the club as well, and about how Much they can invest now and you know, the new stadium and all of these kind of things. And he actually said before the weekend's games, he said it's now time to. The team has to catch up with the club again. And I think that is a generalized feeling that there is a degree of pressure that says, look, two summers in a row spending really big money. There needs to be a response to this. And. And last year they went 15 consecutive wins in La Liga. I think it was, if I remember rightly, 22 or 23 in all competitions in a position where it really looks like they're going to compete. And then they have that European cup knockout against Real Madrid with the. With a double penalty and they completely collapse. And I think at that point, emotionally there was a feeling that, hang on, we shouldn't be this vulnerable.
- [31:04]
B
Athletic must be annoyed they've changed that double hit penalty now because that was like, you reminded me what a moment that was for them. Generic Real Madrid question, how are they looking? They play Osasuna tonight in their opening game.
- [31:14]
E
Well, the short answer to how are Real Madrid looking is that no one really knows because they've only played one pre season game. Of course, the judgment on Real Madrid was about the club World cup and then when they got knocked out, Xavier Alonso was very quick to say, this is last year's team. This isn't, this is next year. You know, we've. We've still got work to do. I think they feel like they still lack that midfielder that controls the game, that runs the game for them, for them, like Tony Cruz had been or, or like Charlie Alonso himself had been. They're trying to fill that with a. With a combination of Aldegula playing deeper with Cho Many playing a kind of a solidifying role so that Dean Howson can step into midfield. I think Trent Alexander Arnold might play a little bit more inside, obviously. Look, they've got enough really good players that they should be absolutely fine for most of the season. The question will be those really big games, can they compete with the really, really biggest teams? I suppose tonight will give us only a little bit of the answer, in truth. At home. First game of scenic season against Austin. They are. Madrid have been very vocal about complaining about the fact that they have had to start the season now and not been given another week after Club World Cup. But then of course, Chelsea and PS are in the same position.
- [32:20]
B
Yeah. And they didn't have to go, did they? They could have said, we don't need, we don't need to play Defeat for your mob, Aviedo Villarreal. So you had an early sending off. Who sent. Was it Pedro? The ref just sent them off.
- [32:31]
E
Do you know what? I don't actually know which referee it was, but yes, whatever he was, he was. He. He did have a first name and a surname and only one surname. That's the other thing is how do you decide which the two surnames you're going to use? And most people just use the first one, but sometimes if you've got a really boring surname, you lose the boring surname and keep the interesting one. Now, it depends anyway, we did get a man sent off quite early, but I don't think that's the excuse. Solomon Rondon missed a penalty, one of the worst penalties I've seen for a very long time. Struck it very, very badly. But in truth, this was one of those where you. So before the game, Ovedo haven't been in the first division for 24 years. Standing outside the stadium talking to people, going, wow, we're actually in the first division. And then when the game starts about 10 minutes in, you think, shit, we're in the first division. These guys are so much better than us. That was the first game. So. So, you know, maybe it will change, but. But beaten and beaten comfortably by a. By a pretty good team. Yes, a red card gives us the excuse. But I. I don't think it was about that. In truth, our goalkeeper was our best player, Aronis Gandel. The nicest thing, of course, was Santi Catholic coming on with. With about 10 minutes to go.
- [33:39]
B
Yeah. Also who came on with 10 minutes to go was Thomas Partey. There were some protests when he signed, but nothing at the. At the game tip.
- [33:46]
E
Well, I wouldn't quite say nothing, but very nearly nothing. So he came on with. I think with Alfonso Pedratha. The both of them came on, two players coming off. So as the change was being made, there was applause, but of course, bear in mind that there's four players in this equation. So, you know, there's two going on, two going off. So he comes on, there's applause, then you hear a few sort of whistles mixed in with applause. And it's one of those where you're not entirely sure when you're inside a stadium, but then the first time he got the ball, and I would say the second, the third, the fourth, maybe even the fifth time he got the ball, there were whistles for him and he was whistled by the fans, but then it kind of died out a bit. The other thing to say of course is that when there's whistles it's difficult to judge how many. And it's because whistles carry quite a lot. They can be quite loud even if it's not very many. And then of course there was some. Why say of course? And maybe of course isn't the right phrase, but I think it does. It happens a lot in Spain. Some of the fans sort of responded to the whistles with applause to try and say, no, no, we've got support this guy because he's our player and so on. Some may or may not be aware of why. I think it's highly unlikely that many are unaware, but there might be a handful that are unaware. And so there was kind of a bit of applause. So I would say that the, the response to him was pretty tepid. It was mostly indifferent. So. So the talk about a protest, there'd been an online petition. It's got about a thousand signatures, which isn't very many but you know, it's still a thousand people saying we don't want this guy here. There'd been some people from supporters clubs saying we don't want to sign this guy. But then when it came to the first competitive match, it, it was the, the protest in sf, there were one were very, very tepid when there'd been protests when they played Aston Villa in preseason. The club's president had said, and there been quite a lot of whistles in that. He's made a point post game of saying no, no, the whistles were from the Aston Villa fans, not from ours. And I don't want anyone to whistle our players. And I think the fans kind of took that on board. V V's fans are not the most vociferous and certainly what we call it, protest inclined football fans.
- [35:41]
B
Sure, right. Party has been charged with five counts of rape against two women, a charge of sexual assault against a third. He denies the charges. Thank you, Sid. Anything else you want to add Sid, before we leave you?
- [35:55]
E
Well, off the top of my head, the, the one that, the one that I really liked from the opening weekend was Nico Williams.
- [35:59]
B
Oh yeah. So good.
- [36:01]
E
And I love, I love the footage of Inaki. So to give people the context, Nico Williams, of course, Inaki Williams, his brother. The two of them play for Athletic Blob together. Nico was close to leaving in the summer to Barcelona. He actually said to Barcelona, I'm ready to come this year. After they tried to sign last year. But Barcelona were unable to give him the guarantees that they could register him because of the financial Problems so on. I suspect there was a little bit more to it than just that, but that was the kind of the key thing. And he ended up staying at Athletic and signing a 10 year contract at the club. And of course it was projected as all about emotion and so on, which I'm sure there's a huge part of that. But he got quite a lot of abuse during the summer because the possibility he was going to go. There's a mural in which he and his brother appear and his part of it had been defaced. There'd been quite a lot of tension. This is his first game for the club since then and there was a real kind of collective sense of embracing him, saying, no, no, we're, you know, we're behind him. He played brilliantly. Two assists, although I think one of them officially doesn't count as an assist. Hit the post, wins the penalty, from which he scores the other goal. So it's two assist, a goal of the free plays. Fantastic. Well, anyway, the first goal is a penalty and the stadium starts chanting for him to take it. But it's in. In Yaki, his older brother, who's standing on the penalty spot with a ball under his arm. Nowi, to give people the broader story is not just Niko's older brother. He's kind of like Niko's dad, but very much a father figure. And he's standing there with a ball under his arm and his hands on his hips, looking at Niko as Niko's coming over to. To. To. To take the penalty, with the look of a father who is saying to his son, where have you been? What? What took you so long? So Niko comes over, he gives him a ball, gives him a kiss, Niko takes a penalty, scores, and everyone goes mad. And this is kind of fantastic, sort of public reconciliation in front of 50,000 people. And it was just, just really, really lovely. And Nicko, when he eventually goes off, he goes off and he gets on a bench and does this gesture that just says, I can't do anymore. I can't do anymore. I'm exhausted. That was really nice.
- [37:58]
B
He's really tired. So In Aki then says, reads him a story and then just turns the light off and he goes to bed.
- [38:04]
E
In Yaki is the one that comes and stretches his classroom to try and get rid of the camera and stuff. But yeah, I do like the idea of him tucking him into bed and reading him a story would have been great.
- [38:12]
B
Hey, thank you, Sid.
- [38:13]
E
Pleasure. Cheerio, Sid.
- [38:15]
B
Low out in Spain and we'll do. The Bundesliga and France and AOB in Part three Foreign Part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Archie. The Bundesliga starts this weekend. So it feels like, you know, we always say, will there be a title race? So it feels really unlikely, doesn't it, given who's left, the rivals for Bayern Munich and who they bought.
- [38:41]
D
If you look at the top 30 Bundesliga transfers of all time, Max, how many of them have been.
- [38:50]
B
I never, I never knocked.
- [38:51]
D
How many have them. Of them have been done by Borussia Dortmund, do you think?
- [38:55]
B
Oh, is it coming in or.
- [38:58]
D
Yeah, coming into the Bundesliga.
- [38:59]
B
How many of the top 30 Bundesligans are Borussia Dortmund's? Seven? None.
- [39:05]
D
One.
- [39:06]
B
One. Okay.
- [39:07]
D
One Usman Dembele. And that's at just a shade over 35 million.
- [39:12]
E
Wow. Okay.
- [39:13]
D
And that's despite the fact that, that Dortmund pay by a distance the second biggest wages in the Bundesliga. And I think this is what needs to be hammered home, is that you can't just expect a title race in Germany when Bayern are financially so far clear of everyone else. However, they do have one big opponent themselves and that is what continually makes it interesting to watch, because it does feel like you're watching the German spin off of succession with all the political machinations that are going on there with Karl Heinz Ruminigra and Uli Hoeness saying that we're. No, no, we're just board members, we're not really doing anything. And yet you know that they are puppet mastering everything that is going on at the club, that Max Abel, the sporting director, is under immense pressure and will probably leave soon. And then you wonder, well, who's meant to take up that then? And that's the thing as well about Bayern this season is that you look at the fact that they've lost Thomas Muller, club icon and real leader in that dressing room, who will fill that void? Kingsley Como and Leroy Sane have gone as well. Jamal Musiala is out probably until next year, but for. For a good chunk. And only Luis Diaz has really come in to replace them in that attack line. And there is not long left in the transfer window. And when Harry Kane, who is very much a we are pulling all in the same direction kind of guy when it comes to his interviews, when he's saying, this is probably the thinnest squad I've ever played in, that's him basically putting his hands up, waving in the air, going, guys, what on earth is going on here?
- [41:00]
B
And he's played in some things.
- [41:04]
D
You would know. So, yeah, it's still fascinating to See what's going to go on with Bayern. They've had this huge saga of trying to sign the 23 year old 6 foot 6 bean pole of a striker, Nick Voltimarader from Stuttgart, who is one of the best dribblers that I can remember seeing in recent years.
- [41:25]
B
At 6 foot 6, a tall dribbler, he's got that classic high center of gravity you need.
- [41:31]
D
Exactly. That's what makes him a joy to watch. He got labeled Volta Messi during last season. Such was his ability on the ball helping Stuttgart to win the DFB cup as well. Scoring in the final, scoring five goals en route there 12 goals in the Bundesliga. And there's been this whole back and forth between Bayern and Stuttgart this summer. Stuttgart refusing a meeting with Bayern until they put in an offer which was serious enough. And this is all kind of Bayern getting trodden on. You think of Florian Wirtz choosing not to go to Bayern and yeah, their name is being dragged more through the mud than they would like it to be.
- [42:13]
C
You would hope in this case that Barry Leverkusen may put up a bit of a fight, but they've lost Vertah Rimpong and Granit Xhaka, so that seems quite debilitating. And what I wanted to specifically ask just more specifically, was everyone in as surprised to see Granit Jacka being so hell bent on going to Sunderland as quite a few people over here or.
- [42:42]
D
So Granit Xaka started making these noises when he went back to Basel in.
- [42:48]
B
Well, the noise is howehoweh where the lads.
- [42:55]
D
And that was the sign. And I told as well that even through the back end of last season as well, there were signs that Granit Xhaka no longer wanted to be there given how much he needs things to be running exactly how he wants them. There were reports that Erik Ten Hag was not exactly on the phone immediately to Granit Xhaka being like you're my guy. Which is exactly how it was with Xabi Alonso. Xhaka was the one who was the extended arm for him on the pitch. And I remember actually Lukas Hodetsky was the club captain. And yet I definitely made the mistake a couple of times of calling Xhaka the club captain just because of the way that he acted and conducted himself on the pitch. So yeah, I was a bit surprised, particularly because I'm not sure that he, he has the level anymore to play in a team that is that attacking. So in that sense maybe Sunderland makes makes more sense for the engine that he has left in him. Because he still has lots of ability and the. And a very large footballing brain for. For Sunderland and their younger players to be able to draw upon. I noticed when I was walking up to the stadium at Sonnenhof, Gross Asbach, because it was the first round of the DFB cup this past weekend. Max. I was there to see the Leverkusen game and all those players that Barry mentioned. Tar Wirtz, Xhaka, Frimpong, they were on the back of every shirt and it was kind of. It felt like going to some sort of, I don't know, remembrance ceremony really for the old team. And Alonso was on the back of another as well. Let's not forget that he's a pretty big cog that they've lost. Erik Ten Hag has will benefit from the fact that they've got some really talented new players. Jarell Quansah from Liverpool. Ibrahim Maza from Herta. Ernest Poku has come from the Eredivisie. Malik Tilghman as well. Mark Flecken now there in goal. Erik Ten Hag has repeated the quote that he used quite a bit at Manchester United. I'm not Harry Potter. Let's see if it works out better for him than it did there.
- [45:06]
B
Yeah. What about Dortmund? Bellingham is. Joe Bellingham is a fascinating. It's fascinating move for him, isn't it?
- [45:11]
D
It is. He alone cannot change the fortunes of Borussia Dortmund. And coming back to that, that question I posed you at the start, that is kind of the issue with Dortmund is that they are not prepared to spend over around the 30 million euros transfer fee which limits them. And the movements in this summer have not really been enough. I'm really excited to watch more of Joe Bellingham. There's still a core of players there who have been involved in this continual mediocrity and settling for just finishing in the Champions League. Their wage structure in the squad giving the likes of Niklas Zula more money than I think he merits. For example, Julian Brandt every season seems to get stuck in his own head, which is kind of understandable when, yeah, there are so many forces pulling in opposite directions. Nico Kovacs did manage to right the ship towards the end of last season. He'll do very well to do the same again. And yet because of the amount of quality in the Bundesliga right now, I would still say you will see Dortmund knocking about the top four.
- [46:28]
B
Tell us about Gladbach's Florian Neuhaus and his summer holiday.
- [46:33]
D
I thought you were never going to ask, Max. So Florian Neuhaus A few years ago, very much in the Germany frame. 10 caps. But his star has sunk and it sunk further over the summer when he went to Mallorca, which is very standard practice for a German. They call Mallorca the 19th Bundesland, such is the way that it is frequented by Germans. And he was caught, rather unfortunately, by a couple of Gladbach fans in a very drunken state talking about the club. Sporting director Roland Vierkus, he was caught saying, and it was recorded and released online, he is the worst sporting director in the world. And then he mentioned Roland Vikers. Well, actually, I say mentioned, he described him as Don Rollo. He gives Florian Neuhaus 1, 2, 3, 4 million euros and you're like, oh, mate. Oh, God. So what happened? Came back, he got banished to the under 23s, but it was for four weeks and he was on the bench at the weekend away at Atlas Delmenhorst where Gladbach won 3, 2. He was an unused substitute, but there's maybe still hope for great redemption. But we all do know now how much he earns a year.
- [48:05]
C
So between Nico Williams and Florian Nihaus, we're seeing redemptive arcs. So there is a way back for Alexander Isaac at Newcastle.
- [48:17]
B
You're right. You're absolutely right. I. I think with these, if Isaac stayed and the first goal he scores at the Gallagher, I think they'd be like, it's fine.
- [48:26]
C
Yeah, absolutely.
- [48:28]
B
Yeah, yeah. To Ligam, Max asks, could Philippe give us an update on the Ligue 1 broadcasting rights? What is the new Ligue 1 Plus streaming service?
- [48:37]
A
Basically, to make a very long and complicated story short, the previous contracts that have been signed by the French professional league have been absolute disasters. There was the Media Pro one, which was the disaster of all disasters. What happened with Dazn as well? Last year Dazn was supposed to hit 1.5 million subscribers to basically break even. They only reached about 700,000. Despite loads of promotional offers and everything, fans were paying a fortune. When you added all the channels that you had to be a subscriber to watch all of the games, it came up. I mean, it was one of the most expensive leagues to follow. So what the LFP has decided? Well, I say decided. It's also what it's been obliged to do is that it's actually launched its own app, which is called Ligand plus, which is available either directly or is available through Amazon Prime. Dazn RMC Sport. It's quite complicated setup, but basically the idea is that the league is now in charge of its own broadcasting. It's led to a very strange situation because I don't know, Max, if you tried to watch any Liga action in England or.
- [49:52]
B
I watched all of it. I didn't miss a kick.
- [49:54]
A
Or Australia, wherever you were. But in the UK they do not have a proper broadcaster any longer. You can watch the game on Amazon Prime. It's a kind of pay per view. It's very strange. So we have absolutely no idea how it's going to pan out because the project was only launched on the 1st of July. So this is a leap into the unknown. And they're hoping that this model, it's a bit less expensive than it used to be, will help Ligue 1 fight against one of its biggest problems, which is the fact that people were watching the games through not necessarily legitimate platforms, let's put it that way. There was a lot of bootlegging and they hope it's going to sort it out, but it needs to because the finances of the clubs are just dire. And the proof of it is that you just have to see what happened during this transfer window. And Liguain, again, is a seller, not a buyer, because Liguain doesn't have a choice, apart from a handful of clubs which have still spend quite a bit of money on. On the transfer market.
- [51:00]
B
So how do you. This is a much bigger question and Joel will be like, don't ask this question when there's five minutes left on the pod, but how do you take A league? And these will be questions that La Liga has and Serie A has, I'm sure, you know, because they look for the Premier League like it's hard to go, right? We're. We're in the here, guys. I know the A league in Australia has this existential crisis all the time and different people pulling in different directions and all this thing. And that must be the same in League one. How. How do you go, guys, we need to do something here.
- [51:29]
A
I don't think there is much to be done. I think everybody knows what the problems are, is the fact that we're living now the consequences of some disastrous choices made in the past. We see the consequences of hubris, really. There was a point at which the league thought they could get up to a billion euro per year for the domestic rights of. Of the championship, which is completely crazy. That's not the case. And clubs started to spend over what they should be spending. Then there was the sale of part of the marketing rights to cvc, the American Investment Fund, which was a sale in perpetuity, which is basically like mortgaging Your life and it brought in some money. And did the clubs use the money wisely? No, no, they just use the money. Unlike the Everton, as mentioned by Barry. It's not just around the drain that French clubs are going. They're just going down and gravity is not going to be beaten. And the model is totally unsustainable and basically it just holds on because there is such a rich potential in terms of talent, footballing talent, that you can still export your talent and because of that you bring in money. But this is now the biggest thing that you can do. And obviously this has an impact on the quality of the competition because you lose your best players. This has an impact on the performance level of the clubs at European level where you have. And sometimes, like last year, it was fantastic because you saw Lille and Brest showing that you didn't have to be PSG to do something in Europe. But that was very much, again, testament to the richness of this incredible reservoir of talent. But you cannot carry on like that forever. Yeah. I think producer Joel wished that you hadn't asked this question.
- [53:23]
D
The way that you become a much better league is you just decide, well, we don't need morals, we'll go to whoever's offering us the most money. And that's why the Premier League is so far ahead of everyone else, is because they don't really care where the money's coming from.
- [53:40]
A
Well, I have to be absolutely honest, Archie, neither do we. But we're probably not as good as choosing the best bad people, if you see what I mean. We've got quite, believe me, we've got quite a catalog of interesting owners and interesting investors in France. But unfortunately the investors will go where the money is supposed to be and the money is not in the French game today.
- [54:06]
B
I might not be as rich as him, but I'm still as bad as him. But, you know, what can we do? So PSG won their first game, pretty scratchy win over nilt. Paris FC lost their first game against 1 nil. Anger desolay isn't the big story.
- [54:27]
C
Marseille, who sort of are expected, well, to be the next best, lost their first game. And someone, one of Adrian Rabiot's teammates gave him a slap.
- [54:40]
A
Yes, and it was a cracking game, by the way, and there have been a few. I mean, the Brest game was also. The Bres Lille game was absolutely wonderful. And I have to mention it because Olivier Giroud scored, you know, he hadn't scored in French football for 13 years and my goodness, wasn't it a lovely finish Anyway, which was three. Three. But the Marseille game was crazy. The Rennes player, Budyal, the Moroccan international, got sent off for absolutely a polling foul when there was still one hour to play and Marseille were all over Rennes. Rabiot actually hit the inside of a post. The ball almost like went parallel to the goal line and then out. Then you had. I mean, de Zerbi really went. You know, he went for broke. He brought in Tim, we just arrived from Juve. And then Morillo hit the outside of the post with a header. And then right at the end of the game, Ludovic Blass, who was on the bench for Rennes, he was just standing on the high line, you know, the shoulder. And he was sent through on goal by a former Marseille player, Quentin Merlin. Absolutely wonderful assist. One of those balls, you know, which. A bit like an outswinger, which fell in just in the path of the player. It was gorgeous. And Rennes won 1 nil. It was cracker. The atmosphere in the Rennes stadium was unbelievable and I was really, really happy for somebody I have a lot of time for, which is the new Rennes manager, Habib Bey. You remember the Senegal player?
- [56:10]
D
Monday, Tuesday, Habib Bey.
- [56:12]
A
Yeah. And he's now. He did a pretty good job at Red Star, a club which has gone through some problems and now he's at Rennes. And he was a bit. Marco Silva. Ish, I must say, when this happened. But I think when you're playing at home, 10 volts, 11 for over an hour, and you win with a goal in extra time, I think you have good reasons to celebrate.
- [56:35]
B
Yeah. And actually, Archie admonished me in a break for criticizing Marco Silva for being in a celebration, please. Against Marcus.
- [56:41]
A
Thank you.
- [56:42]
B
You're allowed to celebrate goals. My apologies. Just. Finally, this. This is from someone called James Belshaw, who says, just listen to the pod. This is really. Cambridge fans, other fans as well, just being annoyed with me for ruining their AKA because Cambridge drew with Harrogate. James says, please pass my apologies to Max. Just listen to the pod. Pass my apologies to Max for all the abuse he's getting. They kept me busy in the first half. James, of course, the Harrogate goalkeeper, you bastards. Anyway, well done. Good point. You had a good game. And that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Archie.
- [57:14]
D
Thank you.
- [57:15]
B
Thanks, Barry. Thank you, Massi Philippe. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. Back on Thursday.
- [57:29]
A
This is the Guardian.