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Football Weekly
Liverpool look limp against Galatasaray and Spurs steal a point at Bodø/Glimt – Football Weekly
00:44:48
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Nicky Bandini and Jonathan Wilson as Liverpool lose back to back games, Spurs are lucky to win a point in Norway and Chelsea welcome back José Mourinho to Stamford Bridge
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- [00:00]
Guardian Announcer
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
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- [01:08]
Nikki Bandini
Experian.
- [01:18]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Another defeat for Liverpool, this time in the Champions League at Galatasarayana. Slot side were defensively poor and loose in midfield. Szobozlai struggled at right back, Salah was rested. Alisson came on injured. Not a great night, but perhaps a little early to panic. Then let's go 4,500km north where we find a windswept Jonathan Wilson, live from Bodo, watching a stodgy spurs somehow get away with a point. Jose took Benfica to Stamford Bridge and he was mildly more interesting than the game, which isn't saying much, but Maresca needed a win and he got it. Then there's lots of goals for Real Madrid, Marseille, Athletian, Bayern, amongst others. We'll look back on Nuno's first game as West Ham boss at Everton. There's Chris Wilder with the cleanest strike of the night. Your questions? And that's today's Guardian Football Week. Clean on the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Welcome.
- [02:04]
Barry Glendenning
Hi, Max.
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Max Rushden
Hi, Nikki Bandini. Hello. Morning and surrounded by polar bears, fjords and herring. Do excuse us to our Norwegian listeners, Jonathan Wilson, live from. How do you pronounce it? Burda.
- [02:17]
Jonathan Wilson
I don't know, to be honest, because the fans last night seemed to be noticing it. Buddha with almost a new sound.
- [02:23]
Max Rushden
But I I. So border Buddha, Bodo, Burda. Fine. Well, we'll get there in a second, but we'll begin in Turkey. Galatasaray won at Liverpool nil. Galatasaray hadn't won at home in the Champions League for seven Years and Niki, they were your dark horses. Champions League ahead of the opening game, which they then lost 5:1. But perhaps, perhaps this is vindication for you.
- [02:45]
Nikki Bandini
Yeah, I didn't mean Dark Horses to win the whole thing. I just thought they might be an interesting and perhaps better than they have been recently in the Champions League team this season because they have had a bit of a dreadful record in the Champions League recently. But when you look at at what they've put together this summer, obviously bringing back Victor Osman was the headline move. But also added Leroy Sani this, this summer, you're looking at a midfield going into the attack where you've already got players like Terraria and Lamina. You've got Gundogan in front of them, you've got Mario Icardi as your backup striker. There's just a lot, there's a lot in this team, especially going forward. And the Turkish League with which certainly has its faults like every other league, but it is quite a chaotic attacking place and I kind of imagine them showing up under Burke and playing the kind of football that they at least in the first half last night. I don't think I'd quite go as far as Arna Slot and say they were just time waiting in the second half, but they did I think become a little bit less just endlessly in your face. But the start of this game was everything I wanted it to be. Honestly. It was. It was noisy, it was hot, it was angry and it was just in your face. And yes, they are again a team with plenty of faults. Galatasaray. But when they go at you, they can go at you. And you had this end to end business going on with Yil Mask got in behind the Liverpool defense right away and then Liverpool go down the other end. Defendant frankly should score with Ekatike. And then Gakbo then Verts loses possession. The next thing you know, 20 seconds later it's back in the Liverpool penalty box and they give away the penalty which ends up being the moment that decides the game.
- [04:14]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I mean I don't know if you can sort of whistle your fingers to the bone but, but you know, if, if anyone has. The Galatasaray fans have Barry. The Guardian headline called it a hellish night for Liverpool. I couldn't work out if that was like a sort of a play on welcome to hell or. Or if it was hellish or hell ish. Like how bad do you think it. How bad do you think it was for Liverpool? That seems like a bit of a stretch even if they weren't great.
- [04:38]
Barry Glendenning
I'm guessing it was a play on words and the welcome to hell thing. But it wasn't a good performance for Liverpool. It's the second defeat in a row they had been playing I suppose we could charitably say well within themselves and winning. Now they've lost two in a row and I guess the more often they lose the less other teams will fear them which could lead to more defeats as a result. It's probably going to end up being pretty inconsequential because of this new ish Champions League format. But there is plenty to be concerned about if you're a Liverpool fan. Now that they've lost two in a row I suppose because far too many of their players are out of sorts I guess you can give Frimpong, Kirkhes and Wirtz a pass because they're new. They're getting accustomed to this new team, to living in a new country. Dominik Spozli did okay at right back in a couple of games this season. He was horribly exposed last night by Baris Yilmaz who skinned him on a few occasions. One of which led to the penalty being given. When you play him at right back you're losing a very good midfielder. Connor Bradley hasn't been great when he's played. He's been okay I guess. Ibrahima Kanate is making a lot of mistakes. Mo Salah, was he rested or dropped last night? I don't know but he. He hasn't been playing to his usual high standards and I think the only Liverpool players who've been really good this season so far. Alisson, who's now injured and he will miss the Chelsea game. Ekitike has has bedded in very well very quickly and Szoboszlai has played well when in his natural midfield position. But the rest of them are all a bit. So that. That would be a source of concern.
- [06:41]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I suppose depth is good Wilson, isn't it? But it's when you have an embarrassment of riches and they're trying to work out who's should play where and if someone doesn't have a perfect game then you can move someone else in because you've got them there it's quite hard to find the balance and the balance is exactly what they had last season.
- [06:59]
Jonathan Wilson
Yeah, they're incredibly well balanced last season They've tried to Change that shape from 433 to 423 1. I'm not sure that's really worked. I think their best forms have come when they have played 433. So the late on against Atletico, they went to the three. Even that hasn't been perfect. I wonder weirdly if they're missing Alexander Arnold less for what he does at right back than for the way he tucks into midfield. I think maybe he gave him a bit more cover than we appreciated in there.
- [07:26]
Max Rushden
So you're saying he was defensively? It's the defensive abilities of Trent Alexander Arnold we're missing. After years of saying he can't defend.
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Jonathan Wilson
Well, I think he's not a great one on one defender. But in terms of taking up a role almost alongside Gravenberg, relieving some of the burden on Mac Allister, I think he did do that. I think one of the reasons Salah hasn't really fired this season is that he hasn't got Alexander Arnold playing those very quick 30, 40 yard passes which we almost have. We got so used to them, we almost stopped noticing them. But Finpong is just a very different type of fullback. I'm not saying he's a worse fullback, but he carries the ball. He doesn't play those quick 30, 40 yard balls. So Salah's knocking that early possession and that requires an adjustment. And that's the problem when you bring in half a dozen new players that each one of these little tweaks which might take you down 2, 3, 4%, you can sort of accommodate that when there's one or two of them, but when there's five or six of them, you're losing 20, 30%. Add to that the fact that Mac Allister, I know he had the injuries over the summer, but he doesn't look. He's not in the sort of form he was last season. I think Wirtz has struggled physically to settle in, which again, when you bring new players in, sometimes it does take time to settle. That's not saying Wirtz will never play well for Liverpool, but it is saying that at the moment he's finding that transition difficult.
- [08:42]
Nikki Bandini
I just want to basically just agree really hard with that overall view on it because I did feel like last night and obviously Galatasaray come in with a certain mindset. They are again, they're very in your face. They were always going to press out, they were always going to try and rely on that atmosphere they have and make it tough for you. But the amount of times they were stealing possession off the centre backs and off those balls that were trying to be played into the midfielders, it was constant and I think that a lot of that is exactly what Jonathan's Talking about it's not these are suddenly terrible players, but it's that. That fraction of a second slower than it would have been if everyone was familiar with each other and comfortable with each other. And I think that at least looking at this game on its own. And of course, there is a big picture. It is, oh, my goodness, crisis. Two losses in a row. Let's get slot out of here now. But on the night, I did feel like a lot of it was simply that slight feeling of not having your automatisms down, not having your smoothness in the way you get the ball out. And to me, I think that was a big part of the story in this game, combined with again, just back from injury. But I thought Osterman's finishing wasn't great, but his willingness and timing with getting after those defenders was very effective.
- [09:49]
Max Rushden
Nick, are you surprised? I mean, you've seen more of Osimhen than the rest of it, I guess. Are you surprised that he is only with all due respect to our Turkish listeners in the Turkish League, I will.
- [10:00]
Nikki Bandini
Always bang the drum for Osimhen. I think he's one of the absolute best number nines on the planet. I don't think there's many players at all in the world who can do what he can do. And I think, I really think he's maybe like in my top three number nines. And I think it's astonishing that no one was willing to put the money forward from him from a league as wealthy and as deep in resources as the Premier League. I just assumed that was what was going. Going to happen. That's not at all a knock on Galatasaray, who did put their hands in their pocket and make it happen. It's just a reality that you expect the Premier League clubs to do it. Of course, there's always more to these situations, and I'm certain that his injury history comes into it because he has been missing a lot and that's part of it, I think probably this summer. Unfortunately, there was also an element of people looking at the Africa cup of nations and thinking about players being away, because I think that also hurt Adam Aleckman this summer. So I think those things come into it as well. But clearly, given the amount of conversations there about him last summer, it seems obvious to me there's something else that has happened behind the scenes and discussions that has led people to. To not go for him a year ago. And to me, it's impossible to know, without knowing what those conversations were, how valid it is. Is it a certain amount of group thinking of people looking at each other and going, well, they didn't do it, so we won't pull the trigger either. Or is there something else that. That we just don't know? But I think as a. As a football player, just purely his. His talent on the pitch, I think he's. I think he's sensational and I think that we'll see it again. It's one of the reasons why. It's probably the biggest reason why I put Galatasaray as a dark horse for this year is because I just think when he's on the pitch, he's outrageously talented.
- [11:34]
Max Rushden
Although potentially not the most dangerous groupthink doing the rounds on earth at the moment. Did you think, I wonder if Svrsli was a bit unlucky, Barry, for the penalty. Is that a blatant penalty?
- [11:45]
Barry Glendenning
I wasn't hugely surprised it was given. If it hadn't been given, I wouldn't have thought it was a travesty of justice either. He was really struggling against Yilmaz and that may have been a factor, but it's probably 50. 50. I would.
- [12:01]
Max Rushden
I wouldn't say it was.
- [12:02]
Barry Glendenning
I have no issue with it.
- [12:03]
Max Rushden
Fine. Yeah. I couldn't work out the goal music. It sounded a bit like I will survive, which I'm a big fan of having that as. As I don't know if that's all Galatasarai's gold music or Victor Ossimon specifically. It might not be that song.
- [12:14]
Barry Glendenning
I'm. I'm curious to know, Max. How many Turkish listeners do you think we have? I believe we have the technology we could find out, but I don't know.
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Max Rushden
How quickly producer Joel can find out. Normally he just turns off his. He turns off his screen on the zoom call, I presume. Just goes for a run or something.
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Barry Glendenning
Goes back to bed.
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Max Rushden
I reckon we're in the high hundreds. I reckon.
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Barry Glendenning
Okay.
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Max Rushden
I reckon. But, you know, I'm happy to. I'm happy if I'm wrong. I'm happy to be wrong. Let's go to bodo, who drew 2. 2 with Tottenham. They dominated this game, I thought, and were pretty unlucky not to win it.
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Jonathan Wilson
You talk about glimpsed, though, right? We're unlucky.
- [12:51]
Max Rushden
I am talking about glimpsed. I am talking about glimpsed.
- [12:54]
Jonathan Wilson
Yes. Yes, they were. Yeah. For the first hour they were startlingly dominant with Spurs. Barely got their own half her missed the penalty. I think one of the worst penalty misses I've ever seen actually is.
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Max Rushden
It's amazing, isn't it?
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Jonathan Wilson
So hard he missed one last week. Her. Yeah, it went over the goal, over the stand and unfortunately there's some netting between flagpoles in the back of the stand and it hit the netting. I think if that netting hadn't been there, I think it would have gone over the houses on the other side of the street. And I'm slightly disappointed. We didn't see just how far that ball could have gone. It was a big moment because it would have been glimpsed first ever home goal in the Champions League rib stage. And that was sort of the nice thing about yesterday, was that it's very easy to get. And I realize that I'm as probably worse than anybody else at this. It's easy to get cynical about the Champions League, but for glimps, it's a big thing. They really were excited to be in it. And it's a small town, 50,000 people, but everywhere you went there was yellow flags hanging out of windows. Everybody was extremely welcoming. There was a real sort of sense of, we can't believe. We can't quite believe we're hosting this thing pre match or singing of the anthem and the fireworks was all. It was quite moving, actually, to see just how invested people are in this. And it is a ridiculous story. I mean, they are a tiny team. They haven't had huge amounts of money put into them. It's all Kettle Knudsen's management and they should have won that game. And I think if it hadn't been to that sense that they can't quite believe they're there, they would actually been pretty frustrated to have drawn that match.
- [14:33]
Max Rushden
Yeah, Jens Peter Hager scored two brilliant goals. And we mentioned, you know, Szoboslein, not a right back, struggling at right back. Pedro Porro is a right back, was turned inside out for his first and turned inside out for the second. But they were brilliant goals, weren't they?
- [14:47]
Jonathan Wilson
Oh, I mean, he had a really good night. Hauga and Thomas Frank actually said afterwards that it was one of those sort of slightly odd questions you get from the other team's journalists, where he was asked, did anything surprise you about Glimpse? And normally you don't get anything out of that kind of question, but Thomas Chen was actually really interesting saying, yeah, when we watched them, I didn't cut inside like that, so we weren't expecting it. But I mean, Hauga very nearly scored in the first half as well. A similar chance where he cut in from the left and it just sort of pulled it slightly into the side netting. He's had it. I mean, he's only 25. He's had an incredibly sort of rich career already that he played over 100 games for Glimt, then went to get straight to Milan and then end up at Anthony Frankfurt, played in the final when they won the Europa League. So I think, I think he might be the only Norwegian ever to won the Europa League. He's certainly the first. And now 25 is back. He's a local lad. So for him to score those two goals in their first ever home group game, it obviously meant a. You're a huge amount to him.
- [15:44]
Nikki Bandini
Jonathan was talking about the atmosphere and the fans there was that. I saw a picture of the tifa which I think was like, it looked like it was a kid with a ball saying, we've got you, you got. You've got this. And it was just a very wholesome looking tifa. And I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be a particular player, if it was just like a generic community thing. But I didn't know if Jonathan had any more insight on that. It just felt like we're so used to seeing combative choreographies, combated, like angry, raw. And this was just like a we're all here and we're all a family kind of thing. It was, it seemed sweet.
- [16:14]
Jonathan Wilson
I think it was generic. I don't know. I mean, to be honest, that slightly. I was slightly alarmed by the tweeness of that. If there's anything that makes me feel ill, it's tweeness. I think, I think what they've done to the Paddington franchise is you take me back to the Michael Horton Paddington. I, I just hate the modern Paddington. It's was.
- [16:36]
Max Rushden
It was. Sorry, how, I mean, how adversarial was original Paddington?
- [16:43]
Jonathan Wilson
I mean, actually he was. He. He often gave people a hard stare.
- [16:47]
Max Rushden
Yeah, that's true.
- [16:48]
Jonathan Wilson
He took no business.
- [16:49]
Max Rushden
He stole that rugby ball, didn't he? Did steal that rugby ball. Yeah, that's true.
- [16:54]
Nikki Bandini
Away days with Paddington, that's the story we need.
- [16:57]
Max Rushden
Thomas Frank Barry talked about attitude and mentality and determination. The positive takeaway is get something when being not very good. And the second half against Wolves and pretty much all this game could be filed under that category.
- [17:11]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I think they were very lucky in this game because as Jonathan said, Bordeaux glimps should have won at a canter. They missed some terrible sitters, I guess and missed the penalty. The goal with which. The own goal with which spurs equalize was a little bit lucky. But it's a good hit and run, I suppose. They've got four points from two games. They should be fine in terms of qualification. If you look at the Monaco, Copenhagen, psg, Slavian, Prague, Brussy, Dortmund, Eigenfreich, Frankfurt, you'd imagine they'll get the eight or nine points they'll probably need to make the knockout stages from those games fairly comfortably. But I would be concerned with that performance. You're going to a weird place playing on a weird artificial pitch against a team for whom this is a massive, massive, massive game. So draws is fine in terms of the result, but the performance wasn't great. They are missing quite a few influential players. Kulasevski, Muani, Madison, Solanke, Romero were all out last night. So, yeah, I wouldn't be worried about it particularly.
- [18:28]
Jonathan Wilson
Sure.
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Max Rushden
I mean, I guess of those missing players, Kuliski and Madison, the creative ones, and they're out for a long time, so sort of hoping that Xavi Simmons can perhaps bring that creativity. The artificial pitch. Wilson, I mean, when you're there, you probably get a much better sense of. Of how stodgy it is or how difficult it is to play. And if you don't play on it.
- [18:46]
Jonathan Wilson
Very often, I mean, Thomas Frank played that down and he sort of said that he was used to it from Denmark, that it just is what it is. They didn't train on the pitch on Monday that he felt keeping his tactical plans under wraps was more important than getting experience of it. To be honest, once the game started, I kind of forgot about it. So I don't think it's that big a. I mean, maybe players would. Would say no, the ball does come on slightly slower, it does skid on slightly more, I don't know. But it. To. To sort of lay person in the stand, it really wasn't obvious it was making a difference.
- [19:16]
Max Rushden
Sure. Not a sandy Astro. The good old days where the ball bounced 300 yards in the sky and you just. All the skin off your knees was ripped off.
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Jonathan Wilson
It wasn't sort of Loftus road in the 80s. And I think, yeah, you got to sort of. I think what's the alternative is. Is that a better surface to play football on or a pitch that gets, you know, minus 15 degrees in the winter? And I mean, the weather's actually been really nice here the last couple of days. It's been sort of, I don't know, 10, 15 degrees, quite bright. So I think it probably makes sense for. I wouldn't want to see every Premier League club have an artificial surface, but I think for a glimpse, it makes sense and it meant that the youth team game, they could play on the same pitch at 11 o' clock in the morning, which I think is quite a nice thing for travelling fans. They can go and watch that as well. Journalists who don't have enough work to do, you can go and watch it.
- [20:04]
Max Rushden
Breaking news. We are in the high hundreds of Turkish listeners. So yeah, get in touch please. Footballweeklyguardian.com and that'll do for part one. Part two we'll begin with Jose Mourinho returning to Stamford Bridge.
- [20:19]
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- [20:47]
Guardian Announcer
Experian not all journalism is the same. Take the Guardian. Our coverage has something unique. Fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say, so we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to the Guardian for free@theguardian.com.
- [21:28]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Chelsea beat Benfica one nil. Jose was back. I mean, he's been back before, but I guess it's always a thing when Jose is somewhere Barney writing. Mourinho isn't really a coach these days. He's a portable human. Fame event. Real time. Jose Mourinho happening. Asked once why he didn't seek fame on the literary circuit, Philip Larkin replied that he didn't want to go around pretending to be myself. Jose. Well, Jose is the exact opposite of this. And it did feel like producer Joel said Barry a bit sort of like an exhibition or a testimonial or like he was the manager in soccer. Raid. Like it just kept cutting to Jose.
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Barry Glendenning
Yeah, that was very much the narrative in the build up to the game. Joel Zay returns to Stamford Bridge, but it's the eighth time he's returned to Stamford Bridge with four different teams and he's only won once and he lost last night. But I suppose it's not a particularly interesting game and he always makes for good copy. He was being simultaneously a bastion of humility and bigging himself up, as he does before the game, talking about how he's still the best manager Chelsea have ever had because he won three league titles. So until someone wins four, he will always be number one. But he did concede that while I helped them become a bigger Chelsea, they also helped me to become a bigger Jose. It's easy to forget when he's not here all the time that, you know, he's done some despicable things while here and elsewhere working as a coach and he hasn't always been welcomed back to Stamford Bridge, but he was on this occasion. To be honest, the game was pretty grim watching, so it was probably good to have him there to take some of the attention away from the terrible game. But, yeah, once again he's returned to Stamford Bridge and his team were beaten. I. I suppose it's slightly ironic. The reason he's Benfica manager is because he was sacked by Fenerbahce for getting knocked out of the Champions League by Benfica. So while Fenerbache didn't get to compete in the competition. He does. Yeah. It was. Wasn't a very good game and it was settled by an own goal and Chelsea had another player sent off, which they're kind of the main talking points of the actual game.
- [23:59]
Max Rushden
Of those talking points, Nikki, is anything worth worth discussing? I'm sort of. With Barry. I found it quite hard and obviously you've got so many screens happening that you're very rarely drawn to this football match.
- [24:09]
Nikki Bandini
I was just wondering if Barry's foreshadowing next move to Chelsea now. So lose to Chelsea, maybe it's like an ongoing sequence now, honestly, Same as you, obviously. We're all juggling multiple screens and I found the already discussed Galatasa, a little game quite compelling. So that had a lot of my attention. Then there was interesting stuff happening in other places and this game did slightly fall by the. The wayside for attention, but in the end it's a. It's another helpful result for Chelsea in Europe, isn't it? I mean, it's. It's still. Of the games they're going to play in this group stage. It's. It's not one of the most straightforward. They got the three points and by all accounts it was. It was fairly comfortable. So it's the ideal way to welcome back a manager who has still got that. That presence and that even if he spins it his own ways, has still got that resonance for Chelsea fans. The ideal way to have him back is to get to sing his songs and tell him he's great and then.
- [24:59]
Max Rushden
Still be, I suppose, slightly. Interestingly, as, you know, as you didn't tell me off Wilson, you slightly disagreed when I said, you know, tactics are cyclical, but the sort of Jose Ball is sort of almost coming into fashion again in a way that maybe he can, you know, have success being Jose because other people are doing what Jose does.
- [25:20]
Jonathan Wilson
The more direct football, the greater emphasis on set plays, we now have that plus 10, 15 years of exposure to pep ball, and that means it's different, it's happening with the knowledge of what has gone before, and that makes actually quite a significant difference. And pep ball ultimately is what Mourinho couldn't cope with. So it's a much more sophisticated version of Jose Ball, for want of a much better term, that we're seeing now. And he's the Mark 1 version. So, you know, he's. I mean, as a manager, he's. He's clearly shot and has been for 10 years.
- [25:58]
Max Rushden
That's good news for our, our Portuguese listeners, of which are in the high hundreds. Producer John noting that Cole Palmer's just. Every game is progressively thicker and thicker jackets week to week. He was engulfed by a sleeping bag. It was 15 degrees in Southwest London, but he likes a big coat. Where do we want to go to? That means lots of goals elsewhere. Barry, I'm. I don't know. Which one of the goal fests would you like to go to?
- [26:24]
Barry Glendenning
Well, I watched the Kairos Almaty Real Madrid game in its entirety. It was one of the early ones, so Madrid had to travel all the way to Almaty on the back of that tonking they got from Atletico at the weekend. Khairat Almaty almost scored from the kickoff, which would have made things very interesting indeed.
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Jonathan Wilson
They.
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Barry Glendenning
They just punted it long, like within 10 seconds.
- [26:53]
Jonathan Wilson
The.
- [26:53]
Barry Glendenning
As soon as the ball was kicked off, their players haired up field. It was quarterback forward, someone got a flick, someone else got a header and probably should have scored, actually, but it headed the ball straight at Thibaut Courtois. So that would have been interesting if Kairos almaty had gone 1 nil up within 10 seconds, but they didn't. Khalid Mbappe scored a hat trick. In this game. Madrid were not great for the first 20, 25 minutes, I would say, but once they scored, that was kind of it. The card almighty goalkeeper gave away a needless penalty which Mbappe converted, so. But while it was still 2 nil to Madrid, Caratomati got a penalty that was overturned, probably correctly. Mbappe got his hat trick, Camavinga and Bram Diaz got the other two. It wasn't quite as straightforward as the scoreline suggests, while simultaneously being quite straightforward.
- [27:50]
Max Rushden
You mentioned atletti beating them 5 2. They beat Frankfurt 5 1. Impressive for Frankfurt to have a neutral goal difference after winning their first game 5 1, but that's what they have. This is when I learned that Raspadori was at Atletico Madrid. Hopefully he hasn't been there for 10 years. I mean that's very impressive. Niki for Athletic to hammer Frankfurt. Griezmann getting his 200th for Atleti with an extraordinary mullet as well.
- [28:13]
Nikki Bandini
Just quickly on the Madrid game because I was catching up on that. This is 18 year old goalkeeper, of course, isn't there the the K goalkeeper, Kal Mirza who got thrust in for the first game and was their third choice keeper, wasn't he at the start of the season? And two successive keeper injuries to put him in. He's 18, but looks a young 18 when you see him on the pitch as well. And of course in that first game against Sporting he saved a penalty and for a moment there was this like lovely story about this 18 year old kid and I was just thinking of him yesterday, thinking, God, now he's this poor 18 year old kid who's yes, he's played two champ games. He's also got nine goals while it passed him in those two games. Bit of a rough start to to that experience, but maybe still one day will be a great story to tell about playing against that Real Madrid team. I don't know. Atletico super impressive. Really, really strong. I mean Eintracht, a story all of their own. Eintracht Frankfurt because they are either scoring five goals or conceding five goals every, every game from the seams of it. They are absolutely not a strong defensive team, but clearly have some things going for them going forwards. But yeah, Griezmann bossing it. Raspadori moved this summer, max, you don't have to worry, but he's certainly been getting lots of attention in Italy that he's been off to a decent start and people hoping that's going to be good news for the national team.
- [29:28]
Barry Glendenning
Four of Atletti's goals came from crosses and the fifth was a penalty which awarded when a cross was I think handled or something. But Julian Alvarez scored with a Panenka. Really good Panenka.
- [29:44]
Max Rushden
It was really fun, wasn't it?
- [29:45]
Barry Glendenning
It took ages to go in. The goalkeeper went down and still got a hand to it like that's how slow the ball was traveling, but wasn't able to keep it out.
- [29:54]
Max Rushden
Frankfurt, you know, after beating Galatasaray 5 1, they lost 43 to Union Berlin at the weekend they beat Brussian Montjung 6 4. They were 60 up. I wonder if a team has ever taken their foot off the gas. More than that. Marseille Ajax 4 nil. Igor Pachow, signed from Feyenoord in the summer for 35 million, scored his first goals for the club. Two good finishes. First was a beautiful flick through the second, the ball giveaway by David Klassen, who must be 54 by now, so, you know, we can forgive him. That and Marseille Nikyos off full deserbi just never stop.
- [30:29]
Nikki Bandini
I thought the goals were great, really, really great goals in this game, as you say. It wasn't really like that many close games last night, but there were some really good goals and this one was packed with them. I think this definitely felt like a little bit of a verdict, unfortunately on where Ajax are at at the moment as well. But yes, full deserby is the right word for it when they, when they are putting those moves together going forward. Really sensational. I thought Pak Chow looked electric in this one.
- [30:53]
Max Rushden
Buy him on 51 at Paphos. Harry Kane scoring too. Wilson been hearing discussions about, you know, whether Harry Kane should stay. I think his contract is up at the end of 2027, but there is a sort of clause for him to go for 65 million euros at the end of this season if he wants to. But it would seem mad for him or them to say, this is, we've had a nice time, let's carry on. Or unless you disagree with that, depends what he wants.
- [31:19]
Jonathan Wilson
I mean, if he wants to get the Premier League goalscore record, he needs to come back at some point. It's probably going to take him two or three years to surpass Shearer. If that is really what motivates me, I have no idea if it is, I guess an extent as well. It depends how buy and do in the Champions League and whether it looks as if they are potential winners or whether the comparatively low level of Bundesliga means that they're never really going to have a chance. Because I can see why you would think, okay, I'm scoring 40 goals a season, I'm winning a bundle title every year, but sort of, so what? It'd be more meaningful to perhaps go back to Tottenham or go to another Premier League club, get that record and maybe have a proper crack at the Chapman.
- [32:01]
Max Rushden
See so yes. Shearer's on 260, Kane's on 213.
- [32:05]
Barry Glendenning
I. I think that record is just so bogus, though, because there are so many players who have scored more goals in the top flight than Shearer, but just because they didn't score them in the Premier League.
- [32:19]
Jonathan Wilson
I mean, the Shearers record, Shearer got some before the Premier League as well, didn't he? I think he's got, you know, in the teens of goals, as have happened before that. So all these records are what they are, aren't they? I know you mean. But equally, the Premier League does serve as a useful shorthand for modern ish football. And I'm not saying that Dixie Dean wouldn't have scored goals today, but for him to get 60 goals probably was slightly conditioned by the change in the offside law in 1925. And teams, not justice, as you'd have known if you come to my lecture in Malmo on Monday.
- [32:52]
Barry Glendenning
Well, how did that go?
- [32:54]
Jonathan Wilson
It was, I mean, rapturous. Applause, standing ovations, calls of encore. I said there are no more changes to the law. That's. Yeah.
- [33:01]
Max Rushden
Sorry, did you. Just to clarify, did you explain just then what you were doing in Malmo, why you were invited?
- [33:07]
Jonathan Wilson
I was at the City Archive in Malmo giving a lecture on the 100th anniversary of the change in offside law. To make it, you only needed two defenders to play a forward onside rather than three.
- [33:17]
Max Rushden
Many congratulations. You do wonder as well, would Dixie Dean get the service from James Garner? You know, that's another question, isn't it? Jimmy Greaves, 357. Dixie Dean 310. Steve Bloomer, 309. Gordon Hodgson, 287. And Alan Shearer 283. So, yeah, he got 23 more before the Premier League started. But you could just see if Harry Kane really wants that. And he goes to Tottenham, he doesn't quite get enough. And then he has to go to West Ham, and then he has to go, you know, Leicester, and it just sort of just ebbing down. Finally gets one when he's about 55 years old. Let's do the Italian clubs. Niki. Atalanta beat Club Bruges 2 1. Before I go to you, Barry, who's the Atalanta manager?
- [33:58]
Barry Glendenning
Having a clue? Oh, no, it's our friend. Ivan Urich isn't.
- [34:03]
Max Rushden
Is our friend. You asked me last week. I just wondered if you'd forgotten. I'm disappointed that you just. You just remembered. What did you make of this, Nikki?
- [34:11]
Nikki Bandini
It's obviously not the I suppose the glamour tie of the round, but it was, I think an important win for Atalanta, especially from coming from behind. Obviously they did get knocked out by Brugger, so a little bit of clearing that out the system, a little bit of proving to themselves that they could win in Europe under Zurich instead of Gaspagnini because it has been a bit of a. It hasn't been a bad start to the season, it's just been a bit of a stop start start to the season. And I think especially up front it feels like they're still, still working out exactly who they are again up front. And Lookman did start this game and that's positive that he's been reintegrated but wasn't at his usual sharpness. So yeah, I think it was from, from Atalanta's point of view, quite a. Probably quite a lifting result. They, they definitely deserved it by the end. I wasn't sure they did halfway through the game, but they kept plugging at it and the equalizer was a penalty. But the second goal was quite a nice flick on from a frick on from coming in from the left and then Pasli with the header and I don't know, it felt like. It felt like one of those goals that meant a lot to the team in that moment and. And hopefully for them they can carry it forward.
- [35:18]
Max Rushden
Yeah, as he felt for the Bruges keeper because he, when he gives away that penalty because he does really well to get out to a striker's feet and the ball spins away and he thinks, oh, I've got to get to do it again. But he didn't get it for the second time and gave away the penalty into beat Slavia Prague 3 nil. And the rest of us will continue to write them off, I presume Inter despite, you know, they win games in the Champions League.
- [35:38]
Nikki Bandini
Yeah. I don't know where Inter are still on the Christian Kiva again like a team trying to work out exactly who they're trying to be after Simone Inzaghi's gone and, and there's been some positive signs and some less positive signs. Nice to see Petar Such get the start in this one. I thought he played well. Certainly when you've got Thuram and Lautaro playing well up front, that's pretty stinking good. As attacking partnerships goes, there's a lot in the team that's still to like. But maybe again a team that. Not quite sure what their identity is at the moment. But yes, they were comfortably, comfortably even comfortably under Celtic. They Were very, very much better than Slavia last night.
- [36:15]
Max Rushden
Barca psg. Probably the game of the night tonight. Newcastle go to Union Saint. Arsenal play Olympia Cross Man City at Monaco. We will cover all of those and the rest of the games in tomorrow's part. And that'll do for part two. Part three. We'll begin with Nuno's West Ham adventure.
- [36:34]
Guardian Announcer
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- [37:13]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So on Monday night, Nuno took West Ham to Everton. They drew one all. Producer Joel said probably a fair result. Barry, I said, from the highlights I saw, Everton definitely deserved to win this game. Who do you agree with and who is an idiot?
- [37:27]
Barry Glendenning
I agree with you. And producer Joel is an idiot. Yeah, I thought Everton very much left this one behind them, but they do seem a little toothless up front. Beto blows cold, cold a lot more often than he blows hot. I was going to say hot and cold. That suggests, you know, it's about 50, 50 split. I would say it's more 80% cold, 20% hot. He hasn't been playing well this season. Tierno. Barry got 20 minutes here, didn't do anything. I suppose the good news for West Ham is they didn't concede from a corner, but they did concede from across.
- [38:07]
Max Rushden
I have to stop you here. As a point of correction, apparently it still counts as a goal from a corner because it's the same phase of play. According to our mate Seb Hutcheson on commentary, because a corner came in, it was punch clear. I mean, clearly it's not from a corner, but if we're talking phases of play, and for the stats, it will be their eighth conceded from a corner, even though it's not conceded from a corner, if you catch my drift.
- [38:30]
Barry Glendenning
Okay, I will accept that. But anyway, it was a James Garner cross from the left, Mavropanis left, Michael Keane completely unmarked and he scored with a decent header. Everton missed quite a lot of chances. Their main tactic is give the ball to Jack Grealish and to a lesser extent, give the ball to Ilman and die and hope one of them does something The West Ham goal was. Was decent. El Haji Malik Juf who I think West Ham fans haven't really taken to, he skinned Jake o' Brien down the left sending across. It was cleared by Keane and broke to Jared Bowen who did what Jaren Bowen does, shifted it onto his left foot and curled it in around the inside the far post. So it's a good point for West Ham, but I certainly agree with you that Everton were the better team.
- [39:24]
Max Rushden
Yeah, worth pointing out Michael Keane gets a massive header on that bow in finish as well. I mean it really should be an own goal in my. For you, even though it's on target. But I mean it's interesting. You say Everton's plan is give it to Grealish. West Ham's plan is sort of give it to Bowen. Wilson, how do you think Nuno will fare at the London Stadium?
- [39:42]
Jonathan Wilson
I mean, I think it's not a very good squad, so I think whoever's in charge has got problems. I don't know how Nuno will fit in with fans expectations that they. They seem to expect or seem to want more than somebody's going to sit deep and play on the break. But I guess if that. It can be thrilling, I guess if it's effective. But I fear it's gonna be a pretty attritional difficult season for them, whoever they got in charge.
- [40:04]
Max Rushden
Well, you'd have them surviving though Niki, now he's there.
- [40:08]
Nikki Bandini
Holy doors.
- [40:09]
Max Rushden
Quite hard to say, isn't it? Because the promoted sides have done well so far. That makes relegation hopefully more interesting.
- [40:17]
Nikki Bandini
Yeah, I think exactly as you say when you start the season, I think all of us by default and not without reason because financial golf does get bigger and bigger, we think just expect the newly promoted sides to drop straight down and if they're not going to roll over, then that makes everything more. More complicated. But yeah, I don't know where the line is where I feel like we can start having serious conversations about it, but I feel like it's still not yet. It's six games in. It's not the point to make the universal.
- [40:43]
Max Rushden
No, that's nice. I quite like the idea of you deciding when we can have serious conversations.
- [40:47]
Nikki Bandini
I decide. Yeah, you can decide. I decided what 20 games.
- [40:51]
Max Rushden
15 games.
- [40:53]
Nikki Bandini
15 feels a lot more reasonable than 38.
- [40:58]
Max Rushden
So what we say we're St. Barry's just have stupid conversations until then and then one very serious PO face conversation at the end of it all.
- [41:06]
Jonathan Wilson
But what I think probably is true is that we've got used to low 30s points would keep you up. I think this season it might be 36, 37. And so you're suddenly looking at West Ham or Wolves, thinking you still got to get 30 odd more points. It's not 20 odd more points. It's 30 odd. And, okay, there's 86 games gone. There's still 32 games left, but you're probably talking about more than a point a game for the rest of the season, and that's not that easy.
- [41:32]
Max Rushden
Niki, that sounded like a semi serious point to me. Should we accept it or strike it from the podcast?
- [41:37]
Nikki Bandini
I'll allow that one.
- [41:37]
Max Rushden
You'll allow it. Okay. There was a bit of EFL last night of which the highlight was Chris Wilder sent off for booting a ball at a fan, which is slightly overselling it. He was walking off at half time and he absolutely. I think it was a half volley, but he caught it very well. But he didn't ex. He didn't intentionally kick a ball at a fan. He went to check the fan was okay and came back and the referee sent him off, which I. I don't know, Barry, maybe that's letter of the law should be a red car. But it seemed a bit. Seemed a bit like, oh, if you weren't watching, ref, you would have just let it go.
- [42:12]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, it does seem a bit letter of the lowish. I. I think there was absolutely no malice whatsoever behind the action. I don't think he even booted the ball in frustration. I think he just saw a ball and went, I'm gonna kick that.
- [42:27]
Max Rushden
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're. We're all programmed. Like when you. When you're in a park and you're desperate for the ball to come to you, like, oh, wow, a round ball. I don't get to do this much. I mean, he probably gets quite a lot of opportunities.
- [42:37]
Barry Glendenning
You're right.
- [42:38]
Max Rushden
Absolutely right. C ball.
- [42:39]
Barry Glendenning
Kickball.
- [42:40]
Jonathan Wilson
Are we absolutely certain the fan wasn't eating a sandwich?
- [42:42]
Max Rushden
That's a good point. It's a very good point. He's not a Premier League manager, is he, at this stage? So I think sandwiches are acceptable. Anyway, they lost 21 to Southampton. Perhaps more importantly, Sheffield Wednesday were 21 up against Birmingham away. But Birmingham equalised in the 99th minute agony. For Wednesday, Leicester drew with Wrexham and Ipswich Stuart, Bristol City, amongst other results. Finally, Callum says, dear Max, Barry and company, I'm an Australian Arsenal and POD fanatic. The POD is a haven for me to unwind from the hustle and bustle of everyday life. We should put that on a poster, shouldn't we? This week, my sister Daisy will get married to her fiance, Tom. Tom is a bit of a recluse. He has no social media, is not particularly into sports, and the only apps he has on his phone are a plane tracking one and Spotify. I found it difficult to connect with Tom, who I'm sure is delighted that you've put all this to paper. But following Andrew's arrival to the Premier League with Spurs, I was able to use the Australian influence to convince him to start following the Premier League and listen to the Guardian Football Weekly. He's now an avid listener and since last season we've started a tradition where we listen to the pod together two or three times a week. I'll go to my sister's place, listen to the pod with Tom while we both complete mundane tasks. Mundane tasks you have to do, or just like mundane tasks you've. I'll just count these yogurt pots. Anyway, we both promised that if we ever have vasectomies, we'll listen to the Pod during the surgery. And we'd both likely die of celebrity shock if we were to ever meet Philippe Auclair. The pod has been an integral in developing a lovely bond between my soon to be brother in law and me. And listening together is often the best part of my week. As a result, it would mean the world to both me and, I'm sure, Tom, if Barry could extend his best wishes to Tom and Daisy ahead of their wedding this week. Keep up the great work. Lots of love, Callum. Tom and I will not rest until the Guardian Football Weekly deservedly wins back the FSA Podcast of the year from the Football Ramble. So, yes, Tom and Daisy. Barry, please do your business.
- [44:39]
Barry Glendenning
Well, I'm not sure I can wish Tom all the best ahead of his wedding, Daisy, because he sounds like an awful person with no interest beyond plane spotting. So I'm not sure why Daisy's marrying him. He doesn't like sport, which I always find sinister. Well, suspicious, if not sinister. And he does like looking at airplanes, which is also weird, so. But he must have something going for him if Daisy has decided to spend the rest.
- [45:12]
Max Rushden
He listens to this three times a week, so he likes this. Yeah, but he doesn't like talking about strong.
- [45:18]
Barry Glendenning
Armed into listening to this, by the sound of things.
- [45:22]
Max Rushden
Are you okay, Tom? Would you like. Do you need help? Do you actually not want to? Perhaps he hates it. Perhaps he's like, every three times a week. I don't want to marry him. I want to marry Daisy. I've got no interest in Daisy's brother and he comes here and I have to listen to this bloody podcast and these idiots talking about this thing I don't like, and then this guy sets up boring things for me to do. I've got to count the Hoover bags underneath my sink. Well, I have to listen to this podcast. I'd rather do anything else in my life. Tom, you have our apologies, but thanks for adding to our listening numbers.
- [45:52]
Jonathan Wilson
Aren't Tom and Daisy the. Aren't they the main protagonists of the Great Gatsby?
- [45:56]
Barry Glendenning
They are too, aren't they?
- [45:57]
Max Rushden
So what does that mean?
- [45:58]
Barry Glendenning
This is the. Not so much the Great Gatsby as the very mediocre Gatsby.
- [46:07]
Max Rushden
Anyway, best wishes to you, to Tom and Daisy.
- [46:11]
Barry Glendenning
Oh, by the way, I had to venture to North London on Saturday night for a friend's 50th birthday party. And on my way home on the Tube, I was accosted by a young man who wanted to tell me how great he thought the pod was. And I wasn't rude to him, but I wasn't particularly friendly either because A, I'd had a few and B, he caught me completely by surprise. So I didn't really know what to say to him. So I didn't say much at all.
- [46:44]
Max Rushden
Thanks. Thanks for listening.
- [46:45]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I think that's very kind of you, but I normally try to make more of an effort. I was just sitting there reading my book and he. He came over to talk to me. So I would like to apologize to him for not being more effusive in my right gratitude to him listening to.
- [47:02]
Max Rushden
The pod, we may have lost him forever. He's probably not even listening to this now, isn't he? You got to work on that.
- [47:08]
Barry Glendenning
I don't know.
- [47:09]
Max Rushden
Every listener counts anyway. That'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Nicky.
- [47:12]
Nikki Bandini
Thanks.
- [47:13]
Max Rushden
Thanks, Wilson.
- [47:14]
Jonathan Wilson
Cheers.
- [47:14]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Barry.
- [47:15]
Barry Glendenning
Thanks.
- [47:16]
Max Rushden
Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens will be back tomorrow.
- [47:25]
Guardian Announcer
This is the Guardian.
- [47:34]
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- [48:02]
Nikki Bandini
Experian.