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Football Weekly
Liverpool v Manchester United, Parker v Farke and joy for Cape Verde – Football Weekly podcast
00:48:10
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Paul Watson and Ben Fisher as the Premier League returns this weekend
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- [00:00]
Paul Watson
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
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Why does every recipe I try need.
- [00:12]
Paul Watson
18 ingredients, including a jar of something paste I'll never use again but will.
- [00:16]
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Sit in my fridge for nine months? I just want dinner in the oven fast.
- [00:20]
Ben Fisher
That's why I love Blue Apron's new.
- [00:22]
Barry Glendenning
One Pan Assemble and Bake meals.
- [00:24]
Ben Fisher
They send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped.
- [00:26]
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All you do is put it all together and bake. That's it. No chopping, no weird leftovers. Just delicious, delicious, easy to make meals. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit BlueApron.com Terms for more is your business struggling to keep up when the world moves fast? Relying on yesterday's technology will slow you down. Ericsson powers your business with 5G and AI Enterprise Solutions. From local franchises to global companies, Ericsson helps businesses like yours to operate smoothly, stay protected and keep growing every day. Speed up and stay ahead. Visit us@ericsson.com Enterprise.
- [01:18]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. The Premier League returns with Super Red, Super Sunday or whatever we're going to call it. Liverpool on a three game losing run at home to who knows what you'll get. Manchester United slot has some big decisions in trying to find the right balance. While a win for United would put them within two points of the Champions, Czech's league table can't be right but is elsewhere. How long left for Ange's Forest against Chelsea in the early Saturday kickoff? Clearly a manager needs more time to implement a new style, but that's not how it rackets. Marinakis works. Sean Dyche watching on eagerly. Arsenal have a great chance to extend their lead at the top of the table as they go to Arsenal reserves at Craven Cottage. Bournemouth palace is the battle of the two most sought after managers in the division. It's unlikely but spurs could end the weekend top of the league. Wolves go to Sunderland in search of their first win while it's Parker versus Farker at Turf Moore. For those of you worried we'd lost our mind by not booking Paul Watson during an international break, we've booked Paul Watson during an international break. More on Cape Verde, Burkina Faso and Pakistan, While marginally closer to home, Ben Fisher wants to talk about Stevenage. All that plus your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning Hello.
- [02:23]
Barry Glendenning
Hi Max.
- [02:25]
Max Rushden
Hello Paul Watson from the Sweeper podcast.
- [02:27]
Paul Watson
Hi Max.
- [02:28]
Max Rushden
And hello Ben Fisher.
- [02:29]
Ben Fisher
Hi Max.
- [02:30]
Max Rushden
Let's begin with a Premier League preview then. It's always nice to have it back even Though this international break was quite a fun one. Super Sunday is Liverpool, Manchester United. It is very. I mean it's always a big game and it always feels cliche to say but this time it is a really big game. But it feels quite significant for both these teams.
- [02:48]
Barry Glendenning
It is obviously always a big game and I thought before I delved into it that Manchester United's record against Liverpool was quite good. But it isn't. Liverpool have only lost one of their last 14 Premier League games against Manchester United. And United have not won at Anfield in nine years. But they have drawn their past two games. And the more I looked into this game the more I thought think Liverpool will probably win it. You as you alluded to in the intro, you don't really know what you're going to get with Manchester United. You do have a fair idea and it generally isn't great. I wouldn't read too much into United's defeat over Sunderland because they should be beating Sunderland. I think people expected a bit too much of Sunderland at that game at Old Trafford. They didn't play well and it was over as a contest quite early. Liverpool obviously go into this on the back of three defeats. They were all away from home. There are concerns over the form of Mo Salah but I suspect he will definitely start this game because his record against Manchester United is second to none. I think he scored 16 goals against them since coming to England. I would like to see are in a slot. Pick him on the right, a Katike on the left with Verts in behind Isaac and let's. Let's see if he can't whip this team into shape and end this unbeaten run.
- [04:26]
Max Rushden
As you're saying, put all the play all the best players, you know.
- [04:29]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
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Max Rushden
The thing that always screws it up.
- [04:31]
Ben Fisher
Yeah.
- [04:33]
Barry Glendenning
Call me controversial but it might just work.
- [04:36]
Max Rushden
It might. I'll be harsh on Gakpo I think. I mean look Mo Salah had a good international. He had a good international break, didn't he Paul?
- [04:42]
Paul Watson
Yes. So he's fresh off becoming the all time top scorer in African qualifying football history. So like he's had a decent little break. Yeah. I would play him absolutely. Yeah.
- [04:56]
Max Rushden
Julian Nagelsmann has been was talking about Florian Vert saying look, he needs to get used to the league. I saw him playing with total freedom. He knows what he's capable of and how things work. It's not his fault if his teammates don't convert the chances. The statistics don't even tell the whole story yet according to Opta, no players created More chances in the league so far this season which is one of those stats that doesn't feel like it's accurate but it is 21 chances he's created.
- [05:20]
Ben Fisher
No and I didn't watch him, didn't watch Germany against Northern Ireland but it didn't seem like he had a sort of, you know, unplayable game. Sounded like he maybe struggled a little bit again but I don't know. I feel like we just need to let him have some time. There's this obviously eagerness for him in and ESAC to just you know, rip it up. We're not really seeing it yet. We're not seeing it yet. I think it will, it will come. He's obviously clearly a great player. They've done their homework. Liverpool's recruitment has been so impressive for quite a long time now. You know they don't get too many wrong. I am interested probably more so in Kirkz and what they do at left back. Andy Robertson's only started two games I think this season for Liverpool. So reliable for them. What career he's had there alone play for Scotland sort of this, you know, great reliable figure but feels like you know Kirk has resigned to compete with Robertson I believe as opposed to replace him. And at the moment it feels like Kirk has. Is probably struggling even more than maybe Verts or even in DD Sack. He's not obviously had so much game time so yeah I think it will be interesting the selection what slot goes for because he has persisted with Kirkz with Wirt. It's interesting isn't it because we're saying, you know, Liverpool are not on it. They've lost three in a row but actually they're second in the league in a great place and I really fancy them to win on Sunday.
- [06:34]
Barry Glendenning
The one thing I would say about Andy Robertson is he did not play well for Scotland during this break and in that game against Belarus where everyone played badly for Scotland he was conspicuously atrocious and I'm a big fan of his as a player but I think that could be a problem for Liverpool. That left back position.
- [06:56]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I thought it's interesting isn't it Paul that you. I wonder how much like the first few games like the impact that that has on perhaps an entire career and obviously there are lots of examples. Bergkamp didn't start quickly and he think he was. You'd argue he did quite well for Arsenal over time but actually for a player like Kirkheads you know if you come and you don't hit the ground running the pressure on you is enormous.
- [07:17]
Paul Watson
Yeah. And it. And it mounts and it mounts every. Every game. And I think there's that catch 22 where you start to play less well as. Especially if you're expected to score goals and you're not scoring goals, you probably make poorer decisions because there is a weight on you, isn't there, to. To make that impact. Yeah. I think it's amazing now how fast people get on the back of everyone in the social media age. Right. There's so little patience. I saw actually saw a hilarious tweet from a Liverpool fan which I was not tongue in cheek saying, you know, we, we've. We've all got behind Anna during the good times. Let's get behind him now. We're in the trenches. So how deep are these trenches?
- [07:51]
Ben Fisher
You know?
- [07:52]
Paul Watson
Yeah, this is, this is. I dig deeper trenches on the beach than this. You know, it's amazing how quickly people turn on managers and players, isn't it? Like it's. There's no patience left in the game at all.
- [08:04]
Max Rushden
Yes. I think that message said, you know, he can get us out of this mess. Look, we alluded to it last week. A couple of weeks ago, Barry, I wrote a column about it, but with always with Liverpool, just the whole Diogo Jota factor. And there's no way of sort of saying it quickly and without seeming sort of trite about that tragedy, but that will just impact this team and it's really, really, really hard to know to what extent. And actually it also goes for the Portugal team and it goes for all the Portuguese players that knew him, wherever they happened to be.
- [08:35]
Barry Glendenning
But.
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Max Rushden
But especially at Liverpool because they were all there.
- [08:38]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think we said. I think or maybe Arne Sloss said and we just reported it or commented on it at the time. It doesn't really matter if Liverpool don't win anything this season because they have this tragedy to deal with and nobody outside the club really knows how deeply it is affecting them, but it must be affecting them. It would be very strange if it wasn't. It could conceivably affect them in a positive way, but it will have an effect on them, either detrimental or positive or a bit of both, if you know what I mean.
- [09:18]
Max Rushden
Absolutely, yeah. For Manchester United, Ben Bigson. Jim has given Reuben Amram his backing, saying he has three years to prove himself. Trying to think I could win for him here at Anfield because I sort of feel sorry for him and it would just the relief it would mean for him. Although it is difficult to see how they do it.
- [09:36]
Ben Fisher
Yeah. I. I just don't buy that Ratcliffe line at all to be honest. I mean let's face it. If they'd have lost what was it to Sunderland going into the break? You know I don't think we'd be talking about Ruben Amarin, his Manchester United manager.
- [09:48]
Max Rushden
That win was worth a three year extension. That's how. That's how highly he rates Sunderland.
- [09:52]
Ben Fisher
It just feels a little bit again like. I mean it's different but it feels a little bit like 10 hag in the FA Cup. You know. Win that okay. This guy must be great. And yeah. Almost does feel like an overreaction to that game. Right. We've won a game now. Everything's rosy, everything's great. Let's back our man. I think there's just so much wrong still there. And if Liverpool turn up I just think they'll. Yeah. And you know and perform as they can and maybe some of these new players that we've spoken about. Click. I just think Manchester United won't be able to handle it.
- [10:25]
Max Rushden
At the City grounds, the early kickoff on Saturday Nottingham Forest played Chelsea. Luke got in touch. Appears to be a Nottingham Forest fan having an existential crisis. What happens if Forest win in relation to Ange? What happens if Forest lose in relation to Ange? What if it's a draw? The absolute season of our lives looks like blowing up in our face. Should we do. Ben, you'll be at the City ground.
- [10:44]
Ben Fisher
Yeah. I think it's an interesting point actually because obviously that's a fan and I think the fans reaction on Saturday will actually be quite critical in terms of what Marinakis and Forest do with Ange Postecoglou. He's in a lot of trouble I think. I basically think they probably have to win or certainly perform pretty well to avoid him maybe going. I think there was probably a bit of an expectation that that may have happened again in the international break. I think the sort of pragmatic approach that he took at Newcastle, you know and let's face it they still lost 2 nil and didn't really threaten was was deemed sort of just enough to let him hang on. But maybe it's actually a case of Forest can't replace what or they can't find somebody they really want to replace him and therefore Postecoglou still in. Look, I sort of go along with what Paul said earlier that it does feel crazy. Whatever you think about Ant Postecoglou and how bad the start has been that we're already saying what seven Games, basically a month in doesn't feel like, well, it isn't that long ago as it is unveiling that we're talking about, you know, him possibly going. But it's a really tricky game. I think the fans reaction, it was so negative against Michelin when, you know, it was a dreadful performance, dreadful evening, dreadful result. And I think that has really made Marinakis think about his decision because let's face it, it was his decision to. To go for Postecoglou. Marinakis wants to win the Europa League. He believes Forest can and maybe should be in that conversation. I probably agree with that. I think they've got a good enough squad, but at the moment they've got, what, five points from seven League games. One point in the Europa League. Porto, next Thursday. You know, time is. It's not running out, but it's. It's already kind of at that stage where they can't just keep sort of hoping it's going to happen. Because at the moment everything we've seen of Forest under Postecoglou has been generally quite poor. You know, they look frail.
- [12:36]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I think. I don't know. Barry, you said some of their performances, they probably merited a win somewhere within that seven. I guess.
- [12:44]
Barry Glendenning
I. I thought they should have beaten Sunderland. I thought Sunderland were very lucky to beat them and I thought they played well in the draw against Real Betis. They're the two. I just. I can remember off the top of my head, I might have seen all their games. I. They were terrible against Mitchell and Ben's right there. I'd like to see and stay there. Just out of curiosity. I have no emotional investment in Forest. You can't. It's hard to get away from the fact, I think it's 17 or 18. He's only won one of his past 17 or 18 Premier League games and that was against Southampton last season. That's really bad.
- [13:23]
Ben Fisher
Yeah.
- [13:23]
Max Rushden
It isn't great.
- [13:24]
Barry Glendenning
Terrible.
- [13:25]
Max Rushden
I mean, I still love the guy, but that isn't great. I mean, he's had an international break pool to, to. To get on the grass with the players not on duty, but 12 were on duty. So I, I'm not sure sort of what you can. Because people will say, oh, well, now you've had some time, because he hasn't had any time really to train these players. He had so many games and now the time he has no games, he's got no players.
- [13:45]
Paul Watson
Yeah, it's. It's such a weird job in that respect, isn't it? It's like coming into this role, he had absolutely no time to build up a little bit of kind of time with the players, get, get, get to know them. He was just thrown in. He hasn't, they haven't done particularly well. But as to judge him at this point is crazy. But then he does get this little window to sort of take a breath and he's almost on the edge of being fired. He's probably, probably spent most of it looking around to see if he can see Sean Deitch anywhere, probably opening cupboards. So he's not in here, is he? I, I feel, I feel really sorry for him. I also think it's partly the fact he came in and replaced a manager who should never have been fired in the first place. I think that's what makes this one particularly difficult because the get on his back, but they're probably getting on his back because they made a completely nonsensical decision. They want the old manager still in. Whereas if he'd come in at a time when F fans were saying, look, the manager's probably got to go, he probably would have got a lot more leeway there. But instead, yeah, I feel sorry for him because he doesn't really have the backing of the fans, by the sound of it. And that, that could cost him immediately.
- [14:44]
Ben Fisher
Yeah. And that Mitchell game was what, a week or eight days after they played in Betis and as Barry said, they were really good in the first half. Could have scored sort of four or five goals. But there is that vulnerability which, you know, they squandered leads. I was at the Swansea game as well, and you're thinking, okay, that's basically cruising. And then they somehow lose three, two. And you know, it's just like, how has that happened? How have you let this fall apart? Just alluding to what Paul said there, the thing we maybe forget is obviously Nuno was sacked, but it wasn't, it wasn't a football decision. It was a, you know, this guy is clashing, basically has a sort of personal issue with Marinakis, but more so with Edu. So actually the decision that maybe Marinakis needs to reflect on is I've brought Edu into be this global kind of figure across all of his clubs, obviously Olympiacos as well. But it's that decision which has kind of set this chain of events which maybe is getting lost in the kind of, you know, is postecoglou the right guy? What about Nuno? We love Nuno. It's like, well, Nuno was never going to be able to continue in that environment as it Was as sad as that is because the fans obviously love him. Amazing job. But Marinakis decision to push for Edu is the one that's created friction and problems on Chelsea.
- [15:55]
Max Rushden
Enzo Maresca has will have to serve a one game ban and was fined £8,000. Somebody texted me on talksport yesterday to say won't someone. That presumably means that his dad will have to keep on fishing. Won't someone think of the parents here now that he's had that fine, he pleaded guilty to the charge of sort of abusive language or something. I couldn't work out if it was just for the celebration in that winner against Liverpool because if it was just for the celebration it feels mightily harsh. Cole Palmer still out. Not expected to return until mid November. Arsenal go to Fulham feels like Paul a great chance to extend their lead at the top of the Premier League.
- [16:30]
Ben Fisher
Yeah, it does.
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Paul Watson
And if we know anything about Arsenal, they never blow chances like this, right?
- [16:35]
Ben Fisher
They're very solid.
- [16:37]
Paul Watson
Whenever you think Arsenal are looking solid. Yeah, yeah you would think so, right? I think Fulham have got a terrible record against Arsenal. Fulham I think also probably needed that international break to get over that Bournemouth game because that was a. A shocker, wasn't it? They absolutely had that. That, that was three points in the bag it looked like. And then to. To come out having lost that. I think they probably wouldn't have minded having a little break just to. Just to get over that. But yeah, you would think Arsenal look pretty solid here. But that is. Those are always dangerous words at any time, aren't they?
- [17:06]
Barry Glendenning
The worrying thing for Fulham and this one is I think both their strikers are injured. Rodrigo Muniz and Raul Jimenez. So do they play Jonah Kusia Sari who is a 19 year old Swede they signed from Bayern Munich on deadline day who I don't think has got a look in yet or he might have made a couple of fleeting cameos. Or do they play Harry Wilson or Josh King as a. A false 9. Josh King played made his debut for England under 21s on Monday I believe and is supposed to have played very well and he has been a revelation for football or for Fulham even and.
- [17:50]
Max Rushden
Football this season brackets.
- [17:55]
Barry Glendenning
Not that Josh king. This is 18 year old Josh King as Barry says.
- [17:58]
Ben Fisher
Not, not to be confused with Joshua King of former Bournemouth in Manchester United fame. But no, I, I've been really impressed with King, you know, as Carsley said after making his 21s debut on Monday, you know, need to remember he's only 18. As Barry said Muniz in Jimenez out. But King, you know, Silver, Marco Silva's trusted King to basically play up there on his own, which I think is pretty remarkable for, you know, someone who's 18. He looks. I think the key point is he looks like capable of doing it. Against Bournemouth, he was hurting them. Runs in behind his speed. He can take the ball in tight areas. Obviously had that goal against Chelsea, which wasn't a goal, but still, Fulham gave him the Goal of the Month award for which was quite nice. But I've been really impressed with him and I wouldn't be too worried about their sort of lack of forwards because I think he looks like a player that teams are worried about. I know coaching staff, opposition coaching staff are also kind of saying they need to look out for him. Yeah, I think he's a player who will be extremely well coveted.
- [18:55]
Max Rushden
Palitry Bournemouth, sixth versus fourth. Steve Parish has said publicly that talks have started with Oliver Glasner over a contract extension. Which is interesting, isn't it, Paul? I mean, whether it's worth the paper that it is written on. I was trying to avoid that phrase, but it seems impossible to avoid that phrase. It would be amazing if they kept Glasner for a long time. I mean, same goes for Bournemouth, Narayana. But given what Glasnan's actually got, Silverware could well win the Conference League this year. Like, if they managed to keep him for longer would be mightily impressive.
- [19:26]
Paul Watson
It would, it would. But how many times we've seen examples of managers in Glassner's position go to a club that is supposedly, you know, a bigger club, you know, are traditionally a bigger club and struggle and that reputation is gone so quickly, isn't it? As we've seen, you know, you only have to look at managers like, I don't know, Graham Potter or, you know, there's countless examples. You jump for the big job. The big job is. Is actually a club that is sort of propped up on a house of cards to some extent. It's going to take a really big job to get that team back functioning again. And very quickly the patience runs out and you are generally, you know, however. However good you are, your last job does taint you. And so, yeah, it's all about when you jump if you're Glasner, isn't it? Like, at what point actually do you want to leave Crystal Palace? Because he is a hero and he's doing an amazing job. But do you? Do you want to take that step?
- [20:18]
Max Rushden
There's a Morgan Gibbs White situation developing with Antoine Semenyo at the Moment, Barry, he has a release clause, but Bournemouth are keeping it to themselves.
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Barry Glendenning
Okay.
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Max Rushden
Surely you would just keep offering another pound until, you know, I don't, I can't, I just can't work out like ebay. Yeah, I mean, I guess so. I mean, I suppose other people are bidding, but if you say 100, you know, 10 million, they say no. You just keep going up. Anyway, he played brilliantly in that Fulham game later on, didn't he?
- [20:45]
Barry Glendenning
I was reading about him after the Fulham game in which he was outstanding and he's having a brilliant season. I hope he stays at Boramut for the entirety of the season. But he was rejected by pretty much every single club in London as a kid, so much so that he just gave up football. He sacked it off for a year or two until he was persuaded to start playing again. But you just wonder, how could that happen because he's so good now, or.
- [21:19]
Max Rushden
Actually how many players that does happen to, you know, who are packing in.
- [21:23]
Barry Glendenning
And don't take it up again? Yeah, he, he, he decided to give it another go and it's worked out for him. But yeah, it probably happens. Loads of kids who, who pack it in and maybe even go down the wrong path and who knows where they end up.
- [21:39]
Ben Fisher
I think the thing with Semenya as well may seem a quite simple kind of point, but it's almost. This is the power of coaching somebody I saw quite a lot of when he was at Bristol City, this raw, kind of explosive, you know, all the kind of traits we see now. Strong tear again, you know, tear the sort of fall back apart, but all of that stuff. But he was very raw and kind of. You didn't really think he had maybe the end product, the way he took that final goal against Fulham. And yet actually Iriola and Bournemouth have kind of polished this rough diamond and made him better to the point where now when he's going through one on one or maybe putting that final ball in, you're expecting him to deliver. Whereas I don't think that was maybe. I think he would probably say that as well. I remember talking to him years ago and he said, you know, I've had to work a lot on just getting to the back post because so many times, you know, the ball would come in and I'd be nowhere to be seen. And that was something I think he sort of developed while out on loan at Newport. He was at Bath City, as Barry says. He's done the hard yards, sort of restarted again. I think he went to Bisham Abbey on some sort of trials day and Dave Hockaday brought him to SGS College on the outskirts of Bristol, Gloucestershire. Yeah, from there he kind of hasn't looked back but he's not had it easy because you know he goes to Bournemouth and he. His kind of development has been so impressive. I must admit. I said to somebody at the end of last season I thought he kind of peaked and yet he's just started this season like a train and you know, probably been one of the players of the season.
- [22:59]
Paul Watson
As a Bristol City fan, people ask me sometimes did he look like he could go on to be this good? And I always say I thought he looked like a Premier League player in the making but not the best Premier League player potentially. You know, he didn't look like he was going to be ever be this good. I think the big thing of course is the, the sell on clause. Do you know this Ben? Like what is the sell on clause for Bristol City? Because, because I think I speak for everyone when I say I want to see him transfer for about 600 million.
- [23:25]
Ben Fisher
I think they were hoping for that in the summer. It's fair to say. Yeah, yeah, they're definitely owed. I think it's either 10 or 15%. Yeah.
- [23:31]
Max Rushden
Oh, that's exciting, isn't it? Elsewhere then. Spurs, Villa, Man City, Everton, Sunderland, Wolves, Brighton, Newcastle, Burnley, Leeds. Any strong thoughts on any of those games, Barry?
- [23:43]
Barry Glendenning
I'm getting slightly concerned by Sunderland's growing injury crisis. Omar Aldore was injured playing for Paraguay during the break. Noah Siddiqui who has been incredible for Sunderland since signing from Union Saint Gilois during the summer. He twisted his ankle playing for Dr. Congo or sprained it quite badly by the sound of things. We'll find out this afternoon how, how bad that is. So he might be out. He's Sunderland's little midfield dynamo and he's been playing to devastating effect this season. Habib Diara's out various. Dennis Serkin is out various others. Yeah, I'm slightly concerned about that and I. While the Stadium of Light is a difficult place for a team who are at the bottom of the Premier League to go, I think Wolves might get their first win of the season this weekend. Maybe as I might just be the pessimist in me but that that growing injury list is. Is a worry.
- [24:50]
Max Rushden
So Matt says Parker vs. Farker at the weekend. The first instance of rhyming managers. I don't know if anyone got anything.
- [24:55]
Barry Glendenning
No.
- [24:56]
Max Rushden
Spent a lot of time thinking about this. I did wonder if Arsene Wenger and Walter Zenga came up against each other, but Wolves weren't in the Premier League in 2016. Producer Joel says has offered Eddie Howe versus Chris Powell not having it. Okay.
- [25:13]
Barry Glendenning
Producer Joel is fired.
- [25:15]
Max Rushden
I agreed. I said it didn't scan. 30 Aug 2009 Swindon maintained their promising league form with a narrow win against ten man Southend at the County Ground. Scott Cuthbert neatly converted to John Paul McGovern cross to put the hosts ahead midway through the first half, etc. Etc. Etc. Swindon manager Danny Wilson told BBC Wiltshire. We were scrappy in the second half. The tempo wasn't there. We're just delighted to come away with the three points in the end. South End manager Steve Tilson says, I don't know how we've come away without a point, to be honest. Got very excited googling Danny Wilson. Steve Tilson Was that AI?
- [25:51]
Barry Glendenning
Did you. Did you actually type the question into AI?
- [25:55]
Max Rushden
Will not surprise you to know I don't know how to use AI yet. I know, I know. I need to take it seriously.
- [26:00]
Barry Glendenning
I recently had to do a course.
- [26:02]
Max Rushden
Oh, really? How is it?
- [26:05]
Barry Glendenning
It's kind of helpful. Yeah, I suppose I'm slightly wary of it. It's common for me. Max, it's coming for us.
- [26:13]
Max Rushden
I was going to say, is this AI Baz or is this real Baz that we're getting?
- [26:17]
Barry Glendenning
Oh no, this is real Baz.
- [26:18]
Max Rushden
This is real Baz. Okay, all right, well, that'll do for part one, but that's exactly what I.
- [26:23]
Barry Glendenning
Would expect AI Bass to say in response to that question.
- [26:30]
Max Rushden
We'll be back in a second.
- [26:37]
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- [27:43]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's do some international stuff. Paul, you wanted to talk about Kosovo. Second in Group B. Yeah. Benefiting hugely from Sweden being absolutely hopeless and they beat them twice this campaign. That's their two wins. But a great chance of getting in the playoffs.
- [27:58]
Paul Watson
A great chance which has sort of come somewhat out of nowhere. They're also the unofficial world champions. Kosovo. I don't know if you knew that.
- [28:06]
Max Rushden
I didn't know that. How does that work?
- [28:08]
Paul Watson
So it's like someone sat down at some point and went back to the first ever international and treated it from there on like a boxing belt. So, you know, England, Scotland at the belt until they lose a match and then it transfers to the next team. So they've. Someone's done this for, like, decades and decades and once they had a winner, they then just have kept it going and Kosovo took that. That title and are. Have actually successfully defended being the unofficial world champions. They took it from Sweden and then beat him again. But. But yeah, on a. On a sort of more interesting note.
- [28:42]
Max Rushden
I don't think it's going to be more interesting. That was interesting.
- [28:44]
Paul Watson
Well, it's kind of a little quirk, but, yeah, Kosovo's. Kosovo's kind of campaign has been pretty ridiculous, that they've come from nowhere really, with these. These wins, as you say, take advantage of the fact Sweden is so bad, but they are now in a situation where they only really need to take a point from Slovenia and they would be in the playoffs, which isn't a huge achievement for Kosovo. But an added little quirk is that they play Switzerland in their last game and Switzerland and Kosovo obviously have this incredibly close relationship in the Swiss team. At any given point, there'll be a number of players with Kosovar ancestry, you know, famously Granit Xhaka, born in Basel to Kosovo and Albanian parents and has spoken very movingly about what Kosovo means to him. So there's an enormous amount of goodwill and fellowship between Switzerland and Kosovo. They could meet on the last day and it could be a battle for automatic qualification. Or more likely, Kosovo will need a result and Switzerland won't. And you do wonder a little bit what happens then, if Switzerland actually wouldn't.
- [29:47]
Max Rushden
Yeah, our good friend and neighbours, Cyprus, Douzpois one of those.
- [29:51]
Paul Watson
I wouldn't suggest anything like that. Interesting. Switzerland, actually were the ones who helped get Kosovo into UEFA. They weren't in Switzerland were the ones who really moved that and put that onto the table at UEFA and drove it forward. So, yeah, it's an incredible story. And the fact that in 2014 they played their first ever FIFA sanctioned game. And to already be at this point where they are, you know, because of the extended format of the World Cup. They are on the brink of a playoff. Is really exciting.
- [30:17]
Max Rushden
I think San Marino are still in the running. How is this? I mean, they are bottom of Group H. Seven games, no points, 41 against 32.
- [30:26]
Paul Watson
And I love San Marino. You know I love San Marino.
- [30:28]
Max Rushden
Of course you do.
- [30:29]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
- [30:29]
Paul Watson
I love Minnows. But I have to say, this new qualification format, it has exposed a crazy element in it.
- [30:36]
Advertisement/Commercial Voice
Right.
- [30:36]
Paul Watson
But because of their Nations League, they won the Group D. They therefore are one of the teams that could get into playoffs via the Nations League as long as enough of the other teams come first or second in their groups and already take those places. So what it's come down to is this ridiculous situation that could arise where they actually need Romania to take one of those places so that they can. So they can access that nation's league qualification space.
- [30:59]
Max Rushden
Right.
- [31:00]
Paul Watson
So they might come up against Romania basically needing to lose by as many goals as possible so that Romania's gold.
- [31:06]
Max Rushden
Which they could do without anyone. Anyone smelling a rat. They could.
- [31:10]
Ben Fisher
Yeah.
- [31:10]
Paul Watson
Where you could lose 10 nil. And people are going to. I think they were trying.
- [31:14]
Max Rushden
That's so interesting, isn't it? And now I saw you tweeting about the Pharaohs that they've gone a bit mainstream for you now. They've won a three in a row.
- [31:20]
Paul Watson
Yeah. Sadly, they. They are absolutely not going to make the playoffs unless that they still require A2 results. That would be some of the biggest shocks in the history of international football. So they would need to beat Croatia in Croatia and they would need the Czech Republic not to beat Gibraltar. So they need a pretty huge swing of results. But it's been. Yeah. Remarkable achievement from the Faroe Islands. And I think it just kind of goes to show what you can do if you just sensibly put down the markers for youth development and create an environment where people play the sport regularly. And that's not that easy in the Faroe Islands, but they've done an amazing job. They've just made it really easy for. For people to play football. And it's got one of these crazy stats where it's like the most percentage of the population play football weekly of anywhere in the world. Something like that. It's because everybody just loves it and there are just really good pitches around and people play.
- [32:14]
Barry Glendenning
I was just going to say. Max. Sorry. I went on AI to ask if it could provide examples of Premier League matches through history in which the opposing managers names rhymed with each other. And I think we're Safe. It's come up with Martin o' Neill and David Moyes, Sam Allardyce and Steve Bruce, Paul jewel and Mick McCarthy. And it hasn't come up with Danny Wilson and Steve Tilson, which isn't a.
- [32:47]
Max Rushden
Premier League game to be fair to your AI.
- [32:50]
Barry Glendenning
Anyway, I've gone off piece. I apologize. I was just.
- [32:53]
Max Rushden
No, that's okay. No, don't apologize. It was very important stuff. I'm glad you were concentrating on what Paul is selling.
- [32:58]
Paul Watson
I wrap my brains for this. This Roman managers. I think the problem is the lack of Italian managers because that must happen. It's not a big deal in this lito rhyming man. Right. But we don't ever have two.
- [33:08]
Max Rushden
Yeah, of course. I mean, I thought of Pellegrini and another one, but you know, the Enies. If you have two Enies, it doesn't work. That's what I was. Gasparini. I was like, that's. That's not really a rhyme because it's basically the same. I suppose Ilson Wilson and Tilson is the same. By my own logic, I've messed up. Anyway. Let's go to Cape Verde.
- [33:29]
Barry Glendenning
Paul.
- [33:29]
Max Rushden
We did a bit on them yesterday, specifically Roberto Lopez. But it's an astonishing story of qualification, isn't it?
- [33:36]
Paul Watson
Yeah, it's absolutely incredible. Really is second as a second smallest by population nation to ever qualify. And in fact, what was really amazing was this moment being described by people there as not just the biggest moment in their football history, but the biggest moment in their national history. And I think that kind of says something about the scale of this achievement and what it meant to people there. What. What also is amazing, and I was hearing this from people on the ground, is how laid back everyone was. You think the size of that, you know, the pressure on the players. Apparently the players were just sort of hanging out with. With people in the streets just walking around the market and no one was mobbing them, but they were just sort of standing around having a chat with people. The day before the game, apparently, when journalists went to go and try and get into the stadium, like, you know, suitable number of hours before kickoff. Stadium wasn't even open. They. They had to sort of find a ground effectively to open it up. And this is like the biggest day in their history. So yeah, it was impossibly tense, especially because they basically had all but qualified against Libya, which looked like a harder tie away to Libya. It was a ridiculous game where they. They scored one of the weirdest goals in. In international football history, where the goalkeeper, the Libya Goalkeepers would just let the ball through him. But then they went three one down, battled back to three all and had a goal in the last minute. Disallowed for completely nonsense offside. So they sort of thought they'd already done the job, then had to take on Eswatini, who looked on paper very weak, but actually were just trying to kill the game. Basically, the goalkeeper was time wasting from like minute four. And the only real reason that Ace Watini had to win was just to simply sort of annoy Cape Verde. They had nothing to play for, so the fans didn't love that. Also, one thing people don't necessarily know about Cape Verde is it's insanely windy on that pitch. So it's really hard for anyone to play decent football. And because all the Cape Verde players play away from there, they all, the whole team were playing in Europe somewhere. They were actually sort of having to struggle with the conditions themselves a little bit because they only play those home games in Cape Verde. Even assembling the team to get them all there in time is like an insane battle. So, yeah, it's, It's a remarkable achievement and I think one of the, one of the biggest sort of fairy tales. And however much we will bemoan the, the extended format at certain points, what it means to a nation like that to be part of a World cup, it. It just, it can't even really be defined.
- [36:00]
Max Rushden
Sure. So does that mean you are. Because they. FIFA have suggested a 64 team World Cup. Are you like, yeah, I'm in for this?
- [36:06]
Paul Watson
No, that, that's where, that's where even I hit. Hit a bit of a wall because I just think it's. I just don't think that is good for the actual competition. I think there has to be a. There has to be a line drawn and I think it's, it's healthy where it is. But yeah, even I struggle to defend that. I did see someone and I felt a bit of sympathy. Someone tweeted something like, who wants to Watch Cape Verde vs Azerbaijan at World Cup? And there was just luckily enough people like me who were like, well, if you're not watching that, what are you even doing? That's. That's absolute World Cup. Yes. The prime World cup match.
- [36:39]
Max Rushden
Nigeria qualified. They beat Benin 4 nil. You want us to talk about Burkino Faso?
- [36:43]
Paul Watson
Yeah. I felt incredibly sorry for Burkina Faso. So Nigeria, this was amazing late drama. They beat Benan, who were also in the running for a place. They beat them 4 nil. But they were not actually going to even make the playoffs until the last minute when Onyeka scored, which was to make it 4 nil, because then they overtook Burkina Faso by a single goal in the playoff, in the playoff qualification. So Burkina Faso were, were celebrating making the playoffs in their dressing room, which you probably shouldn't do to, you know, it's full time, but they thought it was in the back and there were videos of them sort of dancing in the dressing room. They're then told, no, no, you, you've dropped out. But it's even worse because in Africa it was all really complicated because Eritrea withdrew when they were sort of had started their qualification or the qualification campaign had been drawn up. Eritrea withdrew. You also had this mess where Congo, not Dr. Congo, but the other one, were suspended during it. So they had this situation where they decided the only thing to do is to get rid of points against some of the teams. So basically results against sixth place teams were not counted towards the runners up, you know, best runners up. That was the only fair way of doing it. But that actually ended up being really unfair on Burkina Faso because Nigeria had dropped four points against Zimbabwe. So actually Burkina Faso felt really cheated by that because basically this somewhat arbitrary cutoff was put in that knocked them out of the places and Nigeria have got into them.
- [38:09]
Max Rushden
Question for you, Barry. Who's the Pakistan manager?
- [38:13]
Barry Glendenning
I do not have a clue. Is the answer to that question my answer to that question?
- [38:19]
Max Rushden
Well, lovely Orient says thoughts on knobby ball that Norberto Solano is adopting for the Pakistan football side. I assume this will be for Mr. Watson only. I did read a really good interview, Paul, with Tusik Din in, in the Guardian about Nobby Solano out in Pakistan.
- [38:36]
Paul Watson
Yeah, I mean, this is. This has been. This has been quite ridiculous what's happened in a way. So Nobislano has taken over as Pakistan manager, but there was a huge kind of explosion of bafflement and rage in amongst Pakistani football fans ahead of this game. So they're playing Afghanistan in a double header for the AFC cup qualifiers. Pakistan announced their squad and they dropped their best goalkeeper who's been in for a decade. But more than that, they'd picked a player who didn't even have a club. He hasn't played club football for four years and this guy's been put back in. And basically it kind of ties into this whole problem in Pakistani football that it seems like squad selections are being dictated by people on the board. So, like there are favored players and not liked players and that the manager is somewhat being made to be a puppet and to pick exactly who he's told. The old manager, Stephen Constantine, English Cypriot manager, would not take that. And just basically that was the end. He was like, no, I'm not going to be dictated to. He did a great job there. But there was a sense coming in that people were already rolling their eyes and saying, well, Solano's got this dreadful squad. It includes the guy who's basically playing Sunday League at the moment. How has this happened? There are much better players out there. So coming into the Afghanistan game, there was that drama on one side, there was the other drama that Afghanistan didn't apply for their visas in time, so it looked like the game was going to be cancelled and both sides were accusing the other of being at fault. In the end, what happened is Pakistan managed to get two draws with Afghanistan, actually played pretty well. So that's along with the way of saying Nobby ball looked decent considering the absolute mayhem that he's walked into there.
- [40:07]
Max Rushden
But it's Nobby a puppet, is that what you're saying?
- [40:10]
Paul Watson
I'm not saying. I'm not saying Nobby's a puppet. But what I will say is there were some odd squad selections made and either it's that he hasn't got to know yet. Exactly. You know, the talent that is out there in Pakistan, or someone is dictating those selections, that it's not Solano.
- [40:25]
Max Rushden
Ted says, how do we feel about the FIFA calendar next year, combining the September on October windows into one three week long window? Ben, will that be too much for us or is it a good idea?
- [40:35]
Ben Fisher
I think it's probably a good thing though. It kind of. Because at the moment this kind of staggered September, October, November, just like certainly for the Premier League clubs, I think it's frustrating. Or championship clubs as well in terms of building momentum. Rhythm. I'm not even sure the. I think Craig Bellamy was saying about it last week with Wales, you know, alluding to how it's going to be different next year and what it may look like and maybe the challenges or fewer challenges it may present. So I think it's probably a good thing because maybe, certainly fans, I imagine, probably don't like the September, October, November breakup. I know certainly some of my friends are pretty downbeat on the international windows. They're missing out on Paul's stories though. That's the thing, you know, all these, all these great tales.
- [41:20]
Paul Watson
Yeah, I'll be knackered. I just think.
- [41:21]
Ben Fisher
Yeah.
- [41:22]
Paul Watson
Is anyone thinking about me in this? I'm of kind to be.
- [41:24]
Max Rushden
Anyway, that'll do for part two. Part three, we'll do any other business.
- [41:35]
Advertisement/Commercial Voice
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- [42:41]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. And with apologies, as producer Joel says to Marcus Truscothic and the Wurzels, we have two of the most prominent Bristol City fans on the pod. It's a very west country pod, isn't it? So it would be rude not to give you a Bristol City minute. You can start, Ben. Paul, you chime in.
- [42:57]
Ben Fisher
Well, I did. No, I went to. Well, I went to the. I don't know if I can say this. Can we advertise? I went to the Thatcher's tour yesterday as well. The. The cider makers. So it's very, very West Country. 14 hours probably.
- [43:08]
Max Rushden
Probably a better. I wondered what the Thatcher's tour was until you said it was a site.
- [43:12]
Ben Fisher
Yes. No, very good. Have you been, Paul? It's a great.
- [43:16]
Paul Watson
I've not. I've not been. But the Thatcher's tour sounds like a great thing that I'd love to attend.
- [43:20]
Ben Fisher
Oh, it's brilliant. It's. You get to explore the site, have a few tastings. I mean, what more could you want? It's. It's golden.
- [43:28]
Max Rushden
I like the fact you went straight to cider. I was asking you how you think Bristol City are doing.
- [43:32]
Ben Fisher
Sorry, no, that was. Yeah, that was a side sideshow. No, Bristol City. Yeah. Well, it's kind of been as expected, really. Kind of quite the makings of a decent championship team. Probably a couple of players short of a serious promotion push. I think the big question is probably off the field in terms of ownership. Steve Lansdowne, the owner for what, best part of 25 years now or so, maybe even a little bit longer. What's his kind of future? They've sort of broken up the Bristol sport umbrella, which is the women's side of basketball, Bristol Bears rugby. So it's. That's the umbrella and it's kind of like, what's the future, I suppose, in terms of what does that look like?
- [44:19]
Paul Watson
Yeah. What about these Saudi rumors, Ben? Because I feel like you're someone who actually might know something. I hear from a lot of Bristol City fans saying this. There's a Saudi takeover. It's. Is it? Is it? It's.
- [44:29]
Ben Fisher
Yeah.
- [44:30]
Paul Watson
Is it? It's the guy who owns another series of clubs, isn't it? Going to Spanish club or something?
- [44:35]
Ben Fisher
Yeah, well, Turkey. Ll Sheikh was the guy linked and then he ruled him publicly, saying, I'm not buying Bristol City. But there's. There was definitely people interested who were being shown around in, in discussions, whether it was him or somebody else. I think there's definitely conversations going on, as ever with all these things. If a takeover is being done properly, then, you know, nobody really actually knows who those parties are. But as I said, I think it will be interesting what the sort of long term. Because at the moment, you know, certainly talking for myself, I've not known sort of a Bristol City without Steve Lansdowne at the helm. So it'd be quite, quite interesting if indeed that that scenario unravels.
- [45:17]
Paul Watson
I love how I was told about the Saudi takeover. It's the most Bristol thing. A mate of mine, just who lives quite near Ashton Gate, was like, they've had the Saudis round. So from that point I was like, I think I've got an inside source. It's like swarm all walking around the Saudis. I was like, oh, God. And actually it does make you feel very conflicted as a fan, because for all that lands down, there's a huge frustration that it's like, well, there isn't the investment necessary to get us to that next stage. We keep kind of hitting the ceiling. But on the other hand, do you really want your club bought out by Saudi regime? And I think it's a really weird situation you're in right now to have to make that decision. Well, we don't make a decision.
- [45:53]
Max Rushden
No, of course we'll do more Bristol City in about two years time. Ben, you've written a piece about Stevenage.
- [45:59]
Ben Fisher
I thought it was interesting. I mean, they're top of League one, which, with a game in hand, or at least a game in hand on most teams in that league, I think all but one. Barnsley. They've got the most points per game across the top four divisions. You know, above Arsenal, who are second in that list or that, that ranking. No amazing start to the season for Steven. It, you know, a team that frankly nobody would have expected to be top of what, the third tier? They've never made it to the Championship. Obviously early days, they may well not do it, but their strong sort of start under Alex Ravel has given them a chance. Yeah, I mean last season or going into this season. Their chairman, Phil Wallace, who's one of the few owners who has been around an awful long time, I think he acquired the club in 1999, save the club from liquidation. It's been brilliant for that club in terms of investment, obviously rise out of non league. He said last season they had the best or one of the best points per pound kind of seasons and they finished 14th and now they're top of League One. It feels like, you know, they're definitely kind of outperforming, punching above their weight. They've signed pretty well. There's some good players. Got John Halton, who rejected a new deal at Plymouth to go in there, ex Chelsea, Harvey White X Spurs in midfield, Dan Kemp from West Ham. So they've got some good pedigree. But by the same token, nobody was expecting Stevenage to be in the conversation at this stage. So I went to see Alex Ravel for a piece which will be on the Guardian today, Thursday, I believe. And yeah, interesting story because it's like, how on earth did this happen?
- [47:28]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Ben and well done, Stevenage. Get Ben's piece to the most read across the Guardian, please. It feels like the most important bit of news that is happening in the world. Correction corner. Matt says it'd be wrong of me not to point out that John Harks never played for Coventry. I feel terrible. I apologize. I was the first American to score at Wembley for Sheffield Wednesday in the 93 League cup final. Simon says. I hope Leah Williamson wasn't listening to yesterday's pod. It seems there's been a Trump style revisionist plot led by Football Weekly regarding the captaincy of the 2022 Women's Euros winners. Our apologies to Leah Williamson and to Millie Bright for promoting her when we didn't mean to. On the subject of international retirements, Jess Fishlock has announced her intention to retire from international football. Wales record goal scorer with 48. She'll play 166th and final game in the friendly against Australia in Cardiff on 25 October. She was key in getting Wales their first ever major tournament in the summer. Became the oldest scorer in the women's Euros final history aged 38 years and 176 days. We got a lovely email from Dan who says hi Max and the Football Weekly team. I've been a listener since the original Euro 2008 shows, have never felt compelled to contribute until now. The event that finally prompted this is Jess Fishlock's retirement. It's hard to put into words just how much Jess has done for the Welsh game and wider women's football. She's been at the top for so long, setting standards wherever she's played. For Wales, she's been the heartbeat of the team. More capsules than any other player, man or woman. 48 goals and that fierce determination that has inspired a whole generation. An incredible stat. She's played 67% of the 245 international matches ever played by the Welsh women's side. Off the field, she used her voice to stand up for equality and inclusion. She's shown what it means to be yourself no matter what, being a huge ambassador for the LGBTQ rights and speaking out before traveling to Qatar for the Men's World Cup. But my abiding memory and story is much more personal and shows what a great person she is. I tried to order a top with a name and number from insert Sports Retailer here ready for my daughter Lyra to wear to her first Wales match. I then posted on Twitter tagging Jess and the FAW accounts to say she was excited to go, etc. Insert sports retailer here ended up canceling the order and had issues with refunds, etc. Jess DM'd me a couple of days later asking for my address and then said she'd send one of her match worn shirts and would sign instead. So Lara wasn't disappointed. I then didn't hear for a while so I assumed she'd maybe forgotten or busy or whatever, which would be completely understandable being the top level athlete she is. However, to my surprise, she messaged me a few days before Christmas a few months later to say she was back in Wales from Seattle on Christmas Eve and could meet her to collect a signed match shirt so she'd have it for Christmas. Here is a photo from that day with Lara with the shirt. Keep up the great work. All the best Daniel Brown. Thank you Daniel. That is a beautiful email onto Barry's marathon Half half Marathon Baby Lemonade said Max should treat it like he's trying to buy Luis Suarez donate 501 pounds Lots of people are saying they're the real me in your just giving giving two pounds and one pence Ethan Pinnock gave a fiver. Someone gave you a grand, Barry.
- [50:22]
Barry Glendenning
I know, it's. I actually got a big knot in my stomach when I saw that a at the astonishing generosity and baby, the fact that it piles more pressure on me. So thank you. But I. I am equally grateful for every donation. Because you know what? A thousand pounds to one person might not be as valuable as a fiver to someone else. Depends. So I'm. I'm just incredibly overwhelmed by people's generosity. And as soon as we wrap up here, I'll be going out pounding the pavement again.
- [51:00]
Max Rushden
Ah, good stuff. Good luck, Barry. And that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Ben.
- [51:05]
Ben Fisher
Cheers, Max.
- [51:05]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Paul.
- [51:06]
Paul Watson
Thanks, Max.
- [51:07]
Max Rushden
Cheers, Barry.
- [51:07]
Barry Glendenning
Thank you.
- [51:08]
Max Rushden
Airfobal Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Bill Maynard.
- [51:18]
Paul Watson
This is the Guardian.