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Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Jonathan Liew and Archie Rhind-Tutt as Liverpool score yet another late winner and Chelsea show their inexperience away at Bayern Munich
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A
This is the Guardian. Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here, too.
B
Hello.
A
Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the Paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. And the Remarkable Paper Pro Move. Remarkable.
B
A brand name and an adjective.
A
Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to DoS and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist. Barry. Although not like you.
B
A proper football journalist.
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Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can. You can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes. Barry.
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Fantastic.
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Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today. Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. If football matches were 8, 82 minutes long, they're not. Why do people say things like this? Liverpool would have no wins this season. In five games, they've won three in injury time. Fortunately for them, football matches are as long as they are. Virgil van Dijk, the hero last night against athlete cues some vintage Diego Simeone. Chelsea lose convincingly in Munich. Defensively not at it against Elise Diaz and Kane. Also today, waves and waves of PSG as they demolish Atalanta. A solid win for Inter and a great comeback from Fodo. A sad injury time for Ange in Swansea. Two goals in injury time mean they're out of the Carabao Cup. We'll look ahead to the Premier League weekend. Answer your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello.
B
Hi, Max.
A
Johnny Liu. Welcome.
C
Hello.
A
And Archie Rinthut. Nice to have you on first of the season, I think, Archie second.
D
But it's nice seeing you again.
A
Me too. Okay. Were you on yesterday, Archie? I'm sleep deprived, sorry.
D
A few weeks ago. But it's always good to know that I leave a lasting impression.
A
Football just never stops, Archie. But look, try better this time so I can remember that you're on. Oh yes, we did a Fulham minute. Of course, of course I remember now. Liverpool 3. Atletico Madrid 2. How do we, Jonny, how do we work? Describe how Liverpool are they getting away with this. Is this just a relentless sign of champions or is this just a coincidence? What they're winning goals in the 92nd, 95th, 83rd hundredth and 88th minutes. Going back chronologically this season.
C
Well, there's a lot going on there. I mean I think these things become self replicating after a while because of the mentality that they build slot talked about the fitness of the team and, and I think that stylistically they are, they are just quite. They are relentless. They don't have, you know, they don't seem to drop off. They seem to raise their game and raise their intensity towards the end of games. These, all, these all factor into it. I mean the other, the other point worth making is that Liverpool probably should have. Should have had that game wrapped up and sealed long before they needed a winning goal. And if you look at some of these late, late shows this season, Bournemouth, you could say that they probably should have won that. Burnley, they should have won that quite easily again well before injury time. So it's not like they're sort of. With the potential exception of the Newcastle game, they're not really stealing these games. They are creating a weight of chances that you have to. You have to sense is going to tell at some point. And also starting games generally pretty well. They haven't been behind at all this season. But yeah, it does. It does become self. It becomes self fulfilling after a while. You know, opposition teams know what you're capable of. The Anfield crowd kind of senses something and they kind of raise their game. They raise their level. It was a totally needless. I think it was a totally needless corner. I can't remember who gives it away, but shoppers lie cross it in and Bradley is putting the guy under pressure. And that's the corner from which Van Dijk converses. Sometimes these things just go for you and they align.
D
I Was gonna say that corner from which Van Dijk nods it in. On first glance, I was like, hang on, why is that athlete, player marking Van Dijk? He looks way too small for him. Checks notes. Ah, that's their centre back, Robin Le Nema.
A
Robin Le Nema, yeah, he's one of.
D
My favorites, Robin Lenormand. And I was like, ah, okay. Well, he surely would be a good fit, except I checked it, he's 12 kilos lighter than Van Dijk. And you just see this kind of push away, as if it's kind of like this sibling, get away from me, you ain't touching me kind of thing. And then I'm thinking, well, surely Alexander Sorlot would have been a better choice to mark him. But yeah, these things, in hindsight, when Virgil Van Dyke goes and heads the winner, are easy to say. Or I would point out to Liverpool's slew of recent late goals that they've bought this mentality in from Bayer Leverkusen. This is what Leverkusen were doing two seasons ago with Florian Viets and Jeremy Frimpong. So they have hit the lottery in terms of the amount of late winning goals that they have been on the pitch for. Now, I think as a player you must be lucky if you enjoy this a couple of times. But they're well into double figures now and like, what a drug that must be that you're just continually hunting down, albeit, can it go on? And then I see the Mick McCarthy meme of it can.
A
Yeah, I mean, there's no better way to win a football match. And then Barry, from that moment, it's a brilliant header from Van Dijk, isn't it? But then we have the Simeone moment, which is, you know, I think someone put it in the group, you know, filed under scenes you don't want to see. But you do want to see.
B
Oh, absolutely. You want to see them. He. He eventually got a red card because according to him, he'd been being insulted and abused by a fan or some fans behind the dugout throughout the game. Then when Liverpool got the late winner, one imagines the abuse escalated a notch and he reacted, which he conceded he shouldn't have done. But he does have previous, let's say, as a manager and as a player. I would say the Liverpool fan or fans who were giving him loads were probably quite lucky that there was several stewards there to get between Simeone and them. So, yeah, he got a red card for that. I think something or nothing.
A
Yeah, I mean, he's giving the fans I watched one video from like someone's filming it. You are giving those fans exactly what they wanted. They are going, we, we did the right thing to yell at him. He said what? You know, obviously my reaction is not justifiable. I insulted him. It was 90 minutes of being insulted the whole time. Then you turn around when your opponent has scored and they're still insulting you. It's not that easy. The referee understood the situation. I hope that a team like Liverpool can improve that part. That was the nice line.
B
Good luck that he said.
A
Yeah, but, but, but, but Liverpool, I think Barry, in this game you started to see signs of and as Johnny's alluded to, they've been pretty good this season. But actually I thought Wirtz especially you started to see him link up with Szoboszlai and, and Salah looked better than I think I've seen him. So you know they're winning all their games. But they started to click I thought a bit last night.
B
Yeah, they've been winning their games without playing as well as we know they can. They are making these wins more difficult than they need to be. I mean this 32 scoreline really flattered Atletico. I think Florian Wirtz people have been sort of looking down their noses and saying well he's not all that, is he? Archie's clearly seen far more of them than the rest of us. But he was I thought excellent last night. I think he created four or five chances. He linked up well with Alex Isaac. Isaac I thought was decent while clearly looking off the pace. So that looked like the beginnings of a good relationship there. Salah as well has been the subject of some disparaging remarks. I think people just want Salah to have a bad season because he's due one and if this is a bad season for him, well, he's doing all right, isn't he? And I can only see him improving. I would be very happy with this performance if I was Arneslop. Even though Liverpool had to leave it so late to win the game and only one three two because I think their performance was much better than a last ditch 3, 2, 1 win.
D
What I'd say on, on Wirtz is that because he doesn't have the ego of most number tens in that position where they feel like they have to have the ball all the time or they have to make it about themselves in the decisions that they take. He. He can sometimes go under the radar because the way that he plays and the decisions that he takes are what is the best for the team in this moment. He's capable of dribbling past a few players, but only if the situation calls for it. And I think that, yeah, it's one of the things that makes him unique. And whether, whether he continues to play like that at Liverpool is. Is a question. But whether that will be appreciated is going to be a thing. Because also if you look at the amount of big name attacking talent there in that Liverpool team, there are not enough goals and assists to go around for everybody to get the credit that they're going to want or indeed that people are going to want for Florian Vitz to have justified the 100 million plus fee. So I do think there's that just one thing on Athletic, they did have a lot of injuries last night going into this. So to be honest, this was actually probably an okay result for them. The fact that they came within a whisker of getting a result at Anfield was remarkable. And the thing that Sid tweeted, which I think is brilliant because Marcus Llorente scoring another double at Anfield and Sid revealed Sid Low, of course. I think there's only one Sid in terms of this podcast.
A
Well, actually Sidney Poitier did a few of the early ones with.
D
Of course I forgot he said that Marcus Llorente has a dog called Anfield, which I think is great.
A
Oh really?
B
That. That was the famous game just before the original lockdown. Was it Covid? They had the Liverpool Athletic game and the Cheltenham Festival which were. It was sort of widely perceived those events should not have been staged.
C
People say that that game happened just before COVID I think Covid was very much.
A
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, you're probably right. Just on verts, Jonny, he's got this balance, hasn't he? And the ability to sort of take the ball in tight spaces and suddenly have yards of space that were definitely not there when he got the ball.
C
No, no, exactly. I think, you know, they call it taking it, taking it on the half turn, right? You know, your body is sort of at a 90 degree angle to the ball and the shape of your body and the first touch allows you to glide it with that first touch into, you know, the space that was previously there. Woods is very good at that. I mean, I think Isaac is very good at that as well. I thought, you know, even though he didn't last, he didn't get to the hour. I thought he, the way he held up the ball and the way he, he wants to take it in tight spaces and the way that draws defenders towards him, it Creates space around him. I think that that's a very exciting development for Liverpool. Slots philosophy this season is certainly his attacking facility philosophy is to basically flood, flood the box with players and when they, you know, when there are five or six players rushing into the area, it's a terrifying thing. But also it's quite a chaotic thing and that sort of needs to be worked out. You can't really. You can train for that kind of thing but you basically just need to keep doing it in different situations until everyone learns who needs to go where. Salah's goal is a perfect example. When Salah gets that ball in that sort of slightly withdrawn spot on the right wing, he's looking for the diagonal into goal. He is going on that diagonal and he wants little layoffs, he wants little give and goes, he wants dummies and you get out of his way. That's the kind of thing that someone like Ekatike or he sack is that will learn over time and once it all clicks. I do think there was a huge amount of potential in that attack. Not just the talent but, but the way slot will get them combining. We saw glimpses of that, do we.
A
Think to a level, Archie, where no one will get near them? Not necessarily in the Champions League, but the ceiling is so high for a team that have won all, all five games.
D
It's how dynamic they are that Johnny talks about it there with the half turns and it's just the amount of players there who you would back in one on one situations against, against opponents, not against the goalkeeper. In that I reckon they'd have the confidence to, to take the ball past them. Dribbling, I believe is the actual phrase that we use. I think that that's the frightening thing, I think for many defenders because there's always this talk of can they break down a low block and it's like, well, how many of these players just have the ability to go, well, I can dribble past you or if not, I've probably got the skill to stick it in the top corner. So yeah, the fact that Hugo Ekatike comes on and is, you know, the striker in reserve on this night tells you about the quality. The one thing I would say though, that second goal from Mo Salah, I, I didn't think that Graven Versch actually meant to play the ball through to Salah. I think he kind of mistouches it and then he just. But he just kind of holds his posture and he goes, yeah, yeah, no, of course, of course. Because the ball kind of Gets away from him. But that's the thing is because it's so fluid and so quick, everything looks like it's meant. And yeah, they are pretty tasty.
A
Yeah. Actually, that move where I think they played it out the back, I think van Dijk did something brilliant, as usual. And then verts and sobers lie and it ended up with Salah hitting the post and you thought, oh, that would have been a really. That would have been a beautiful goal, wouldn't it? And Barry, unless you were poised to say something, I'm going to move on.
B
Well, no, just briefly going back to Diego Simeone after the game when he was sort of apologizing for. For his outburst, he said, I know I cannot fix society and I think I reckon you could probably give it a good go. And if you look at society in its current form, if Diego Simeone for some reason stepped down from Atletico Madrid, I would like to see him go around this man in black going to Elon Musk or going to the White House and doing his damnedest to fix society. I think he might do a better job than he thinks.
C
The purge. It's like the purge one. Diego Simeone has one night to fix society.
A
And then when he does, he gets to run down the touchline, grab his straight off. Yeah, exactly.
C
He doesn't shake hands with anyone, he just disappears straight down the tunnel. You never see him again.
A
Bayern 3, Chelsea 1. Probably Chelsea's toughest game in the group stage. It seemed more than fair. 3 1. I thought this, Archie.
D
I think so. From a Bayern perspective, very encouraging that they were able to dominate for such long periods against what is a good team. The fact that they were able to play the kind of football where I can't remember Olay's around the Allianz arena for a very long time where the locals have. Have been that infused. And I think the star of the show for me was Michael Elise. He has continually stepped up his level ever more increasingly at Bayern since he arrived last summer. And what he was doing to Mark Cucurea kind of reminded me of, you know how those Turkish ice cream men go, here's your ice cream. Oh, no, I put a little bit on your nose. Just the way he kept on taking the ball away from him and Kukureya, I did feel a little bit of sympathy for him for how ruthlessly whistled that he continues to be in Germany when I think people here need to understand he didn't make the decision for the handball against Germany in the Euros, which is what this is all Going back to the fact that he handled the ball and the penalty wasn't given. So because the referee is not there, people in Germany are going like they take their anger out on Cucureyer and Michael Elise picked up the most popular yellow card seen at Bayern in recent years for a foul on him and was continually, I think he was bullying, to be honest, from a buying perspective, when they are still missing key players. I know Chelsea can say the same thing, but Jamal Musiala is out with a long term injury. Alphonso Davies is out with a long term injury. The fact that they're bringing on their fourth choice right back just after halftime, which is when I thought, oh, things could start to turn towards Chelsea's favor here and instead Bayern played some of their most fluid football and I think that's a really good sign for Vincent Kompany. When you're bringing on a player who everyone's written off apart from you in, in Sacha Bowie, this is. And the supposed weakest link of your team is playing well, I think that speaks to the strength of your team.
A
I hadn't written Sacha Bowie off, but until 15 seconds ago I was not totally aware of Sacha Bowe's existence. So that may have something to do with it. Marc Correa, you would put in the easy to boo box, wouldn't you? Like he's easy to understand why you might might boo him. Without wanting to do this kind of question to you, Barry, Harry Kane is good, isn't he?
B
He is max.
A
Yeah.
B
He's now got 10 goals in six games this season. He's got 95 in 102 for Bayern. It must be very exciting to see him banging them in as an England, you being an England fan with the World cup ahoy. But it's not just his finishing. He spent a lot of last night doing that thing he gets criticized for doing when he's in an England shirt, which is dropping deep, trying to link up play, blah blah blah, with runners going past either side of him. So when he does that for England and they lose, he gets criticized for it. But when it works as it did last night, he's. He's superb. He's just getting better and better. I mean, I still have reservations about Harry Kane, but I thought his performance last night was as near to perfect as you're going to get.
A
Yeah. Only three players have scored 20 or more goals for two different clubs in the Champions League. Ronaldo Neymar and Harry Kane. What did you make of Chelsea, Johnny?
C
Structurally, I thought there Wasn't a huge amount wrong with them. I mean, if Mareska looks back at that, he will say, okay, well the, the penalty is a bit, a bit soft. Gusto gives the ball away for the third goal and you know, that's an individual mistake. And the first goal, I think they end up with Joao Pedro defending left back against, against Elise because of a breakdown of a set piece situation. So, you know, structurally, I don't think there's too much wrong there. We saw the power of Palmer on the break. We saw lots of flashes of, of real promise for Chelsea when, when they managed to counter Bayern. So in terms of, in terms of that, I don't think there's too much wr. Think that Chelsea have a little bit of an issue playing through a really good press and Bayern do, do have a really good press. I think there is the potential for little mistakes to creep in there. I don't, I don't think that's quite locked in. Caicedo gets, gets them out of trouble quite a lot, I think has needed to. But I, I think, you know, I do rate Chelsea. I think they've started the season pretty well, so I don't think there's a huge amount to worry about. Like, like you said, that is their hardest fixture. I do just want to mention. Sorry, before Archie comes, I do just want to mention that the camera angle at the alliance is absolute nonsense. I mean that, that is like. Did you know it's really low? It's basically like, like you're watching it from just behind the dog house. It's absolute park football. So I just, I wanted to, to register my dismay at that.
A
Oh, I'm. Do you know, it's interesting. I'd never. I hadn't spent enough time thinking about that because camera angles are, you know, that I can really get, you know, on a high horse about like too high or too low.
C
Well, they should have got on a higher horse. Maybe that would have.
A
Yeah, that would have helped him. If the cameraman, although trickier, to be steady on that, you know, then it would look like ref cam for the whole game. If, if, if the man on the. Doing the wide shot is on a horse, Archie wanted to come in on something perhaps more important, but perhaps not.
D
Just from a Chelsea perspective. Worth mentioning that they were very unhappy that Yonatan Tar wasn't sent off in the build up to Cole Palmer's goal for Chelsea.
C
That's nonsense.
D
I agree with you, Johnny. I saw Joao Pedro pulling Jonathan Tar's shirt first and from what I saw, Tar is trying to wriggle free from him. I say this because Enzo Maresca made a big play of it in his post match interview, saying that, I mean, if there's not blood, then it can't be a red card. Apparently these days, which I thought was.
A
A bit far, would be a strange rule, wouldn't it? Producer Joe made a good point about Cole Palmer scoring that goal. The 89th minute one, you know, that was disallowed. It was a lovely fit. It was a great ball and a lovely finish. But if you are chasing the game, you need to get the ball and not do your novelty celebration. And of all the celebrations, you cannot pick up a ball if you're doing like he's really limiting himself there. That should be reserved for equalizing at the very, at the very least, it's got to be an equalizing goal that I think. And yeah, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll do the rest of the Champions League. Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here too.
B
Hello.
A
Football Weekly is supported by the remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move. Remarkable.
B
A brand name and an adjective.
A
Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to do's and documents. But it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist. Barry. Although not like you, a proper football journalist. Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This Paper Tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes. Barry.
B
Fantastic.
A
Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. PSG 4 Atalanta Nil. I mean, Barry, this was sort of ominous and we talked about Liverpool being ominous, but I mean, PSG it looked like. I know he watched the highlights. It was basically PSG cutting through Atalanta.
D
Over and over and over again.
B
Well now, Max, before we get into the weeds of this one, I have to ask, do you know who the Atalanta manager is?
A
Ah, so it was. It was Gasparini. Yep, it was for about 20 years.
B
Okay, I can give you a clue. Yeah, their manager is the man who, I'm pretty sure you can't remember, who took over from Russell Martin at Southampton last season.
A
Well, Ivan Urich.
B
Hold on.
A
Thanks. I enjoyed the quiz. I'm happy with what I've won.
B
I'm.
A
I'm cl.
B
I really thought you'd have forgotten Ivan Ur.
A
He's done well to get that gig, hasn't he? Anyway, as I said, Barry, I mean, he's not. He didn't do much to stem the PSG tide, did he, Ivan?
B
No, I'll be honest, before this game I thought Atalanta might win psg. They're starting to pay the price of having a one week off season. I think they've lost a couple of players do it. Dembele, Beraldo out injured. I think doing Dembele are muscle injuries. Maybe they'd have got muscle injuries anyway, I don't know. But I. I gave Atalanta a squeak of winning this and how wrong I was because it would be charitable to say they were incredibly lucky to win or to only lose 4 nil. As you say, PSG cut through them at will. Nuno Mendes, Mr. Sitter, Kesi, the. The Atalanta goalkeeper made some superb saves, but it was just a routine evisceration on Atalanta by psg. Hugely impressive performance.
A
Kvar Shelley's goal Johnny was totally delightful, wasn't it?
C
I've watched several times actually. I watched a compilation of Kvaratskalia's performance. Like a. Someone had made a Cria compilation from last night set to set to classical music.
A
Oh, classical.
C
Yeah, I watched that. I watched that several times. I. You know, we talked about Elise earlier in. In the last part. Players like Elyse and. And Lamine and Fritz Scalia are the players who are currently setting the stand for. For wing play in Europe I think, you know that there is a lot of prem faced. We talk about Palmer, we talk about Saka Bowden as well who seems to have totally dropped up. They are not currently operating on a level anywhere near I think these players that is, you know, and crow at Scalia. Incredible, incredible feet, incredible touch, incredible vision, pace. I'm not just doing the Alan Shearer thing where you name attributes, influence, set pieces. Just reading off, reading off the football manager list. Anticipation, injury proneness.
A
Expected to move abroad at the end of the season. Yes.
C
WNT wanted. So yeah, I mean I think he. He is good, isn't he?
A
He's excellent. Lewis Enrique in a sling because he recently underwent surgery on a collarbone injury after falling off his bike. So yeah, I wish him well. Into one two zero in Amsterdam against Ajax. Two corners, two headers, two goals. A very Ligue 1 highlights package from this one. Archie.
D
It was Hakan Calanoglu's really good at taking set pieces as it turns out again. And yeah, this was I think an important win for Inter in the context of their season after the way they lost against Juventus at the weekend in what was such a thrilling ride. And also I think that going into that Champions League final last season Inter's reputation had grown again so much and such was the way that they lost to psg. I. I think that it was. It was less a defeat, was more a humiliation and I think that there is some rebuilding work to be done here for them. I don't know if I'd place Ajax as not an easy place to go because Ajax are not the team that they were a few seasons ago. But still this is I think a very healthy result. And look, considering that Intervals had a change of coach in the summer that they do, I think the Champions League final showed that they do need to undergo some changes and some usefulness needs to be brought in that I think yeah, is coming. But yeah, a good start.
A
There was some good var in this game. Where was it? Turam was pulling someone's shirt and then they pulled him down and he got a penalty and Michael Oliver changed his decision. So we should occasionally say it's sometimes good. Great comeback for Bodo Glint in Prague. They were 20 down with 12 minutes left and equalized in the 90th minute. It was some strike that Johnny, wasn't it? From someone called. What's his name?
C
Sondre Brunstadt Fett. Which does look a little bit like a. Like the anagram that you get the anagram round of a pub quiz where you have to you have to anagram it into a Sondra Brunstadt Fett. Hang on, is that. That. Is that Fenchurch street on what? No, it's. But we talk about. We talk about Zidane against Leverkusen in the 2002 final at Hampton Park. And this was. This was basically, you know, better. It was better than that.
A
Better than that. Wow.
C
It's better than that. What is the 90th minute of the game to equalize when you've been two nil down and I'm sorry, I think.
A
Got the Champions League final. Is it.
C
I mean, I know, but also, he's not Zidane. Like, it's much. It's like. I think it's cheating. Not cheating. I think Zidane should get a lot. Gets minus points for having Zidane's talent. I think that that's a little bit. It's a little bit unfair on everyone else.
A
Do you expand that? That basically there should be like a handicap system in football so that, you know, your Kvarat Shaileys have to be sort of weighed down in certain.
C
In certain categories. Right. When you're. When you're judging how spectacular or how impressive a goal is, I think the fact that you are not Zidane, but doing a Zidane, like goal and you're Sondra Brunstadt Fett or Fenchurch street, then I think you have to. I think we have to award bonus points for that.
D
This touches on something that has actually been, you know, beating in my heart for a while. I'm really glad you've brought this up, Johnny, because it still irks me to this day that when Paithim Kasami scored the goal of the century for Fulham away at Crystal palace, he didn't win goal of the month because Jack Wilshire in Arsenal did something which was quite nice, like. No, no.
A
Paithim Kasami's goal will never happen again.
B
I remember that goal.
A
Yeah. Is that the ball over the top coming from his right, and he chests it and then puts it in the top. Exactly.
D
Arsenal scored quite a team goal. No, no, no, no.
A
But it was a good goal. It was a.
D
But as you can see, I. Joel.
A
Says that also counts as your. That also counts as your Fulham minute, I'm afraid. Olympiacos nil. Paphos nil. I didn't catch this, Barry. Did you catch it?
B
My notes for this game are in their entirety. Olympiacos should have won. Bruno sent off for a second yellow Paphos bloke. I think he's a Brazilian. And David Louise plays for Paphos. I did not know that.
D
And he got injured.
A
I like. I like. Yeah, I like when you don't know the position, you just say Paphos bloke. That is. You know, I would go with player to cover my back more than just bloke. But there you go, look, they've already beaten three sides on their way to get to the group stage. It's their first point in Champions League history. So well done to Paphos playing for an hour with 10 men in Greece. Tonight's games include Newcastle, Barca and Man City Napoli. Apologies to these teams for not fitting into the Guardian football weekly schedule. But, you know, playing on a Thursday night.
B
I think, Max, they should be apologizing to us.
A
Yes, I agree, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I completely. It's. Well, UEFA. Perhaps it's UEFA's fault.
C
We're not doing a Friday pod for these. Like, could we go to four pods? Are we like. Like eastenders? Is there a danger of over saturation here?
B
We.
A
I mean, I think that ship has sailed when we went to three, Johnny. But. But I. We did discuss. We did discuss doing a Friday one. It just doesn't quite work with me or Barry's schedule, if we're being honest. But, yes, producer Joel says a Sunday omnibus where we do all the pods again. Word for word. Word for word. Why not? Anyway, we'll talk about those on Monday's pod, which we're recording on Sunday night to suit my schedule. So thanks, everyone. So it'll be out early for you on Monday or late on Sunday. Elsewhere, the Karabagh defeat for Benfica proved too much for Bruno Large and they've sacked him and are in talks with Jose Mourinho to go into the dugout. Yes.
C
Jonny, have you heard there's some talk in Portugal that Benfica are. Might have a cheeky punt at Ruben Amarim for that job and that United, if they. Obviously, they don't want to. They don't want to sack him because he's on a huge compensation. But if they waived their compensation, it. It kind of. It allows them to get rid of him and it allows Amarim a little bit to. To save face a little bit. He can go back to a big club in Portugal. This is just some of the, you know, a theory that that has been. That has been put to me and I know it makes a little bit of sense.
A
Yeah. Does it? Sort of feels like everybody would be happy.
C
Right, right, exactly. You know, I mean, Amram does. Obviously he doesn't want a sacking on his, on his cv. As much as he's trying to. He seems to be trying to get sacked at points with. With some of his comments. But also it, you know, it allows. It allows United to. To kind of, oh, well, you know, he wanted to go back to Portugal. You know, he's. We. How could we compete with. With the mighty Benfica if.
B
If Amaram did. If that did happen, I have no idea who Manchester United would even begin to appoint in his place.
A
I just looked. Glasner is the favorite with Southgate. Second favorite.
B
Right?
C
What? That makes sense. Kind of. Glassner would make sense. Glasner would make sense because they don't want the ball and that any plays. 3, 4, 2, 1.
A
Surely they. Surely they want to find some. Surely these players have proved in the last however many months that they really can't play 3421. So actually the last thing you want is someone who plays 3421. Or do you think he can do it better than Amorim?
C
I don't know. Maybe he's just. I mean, maybe he's just. Maybe Amorim should. Maybe the problem isn't 3421. Maybe the problem is that Amaram isn't. Isn't doing it very well. Maybe the problem is not the idea, but the man. And that once you, once you truly perfect the idea of 3421, like, you know, in order for true Stalinism to emerge, Stalin had to get out of the way. It was only really Khrushchev who could take Stalin's work and bring it to its full fruition. Maybe. Maybe Glasner is that Khrushchev.
A
Possibly the first time Ruben Amram has been compared to Stalin in how he's dealt with.
D
I can't believe we've gone from football manager to Stalin in five minutes.
B
This is sensational.
A
Now this is the Guardian Football Weekly.
B
Is Amaram's a five year plan or was he expected to do it a bit quicker?
A
Good point. Anyway, that'll do for part two. Part three will begin with Nottingham Forest and Anze Postecoglou snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Swansea. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. As I won the Carabao cup last night, one game notting for us with two zero up ended up losing three two to Swansea. Two goals in injury time. I mean, Barry is worth the third. The injury time winner is sort of. It's doubly spectacular, isn't it, for Swansea?
B
Yeah. I've only seen the goals from this Game. But Swansea bloke cracked one off the post.
A
Galbraich.
B
Sorry, who scored it?
D
Cameron Burgess.
A
Swans. Swansea bloke Cameron Burgess.
B
So Swansea bloke Cameron cracks one off the post. Cameron Burgess had more or less turned away waiting for either the final whistle or playthrough. And then he. It's almost as if he heard the crack off the post, went, oh, hold on, and turned back and then just rifled home the winner. Brilliant result.
A
Such a pure strike. It's such an amazing kick of a football, isn't it? It's like.
B
And it was so casually done as well. You talk about. I mean, it's timing, technique, but it literally just. Oh, hold on. Oh, boom. And what a way to win a game.
A
Yeah. I mean, it's so good for Swans.
B
Poor old Ange.
D
There's something about the way that Josh Timon has seen the ball hit the. The angle of post and bar there. And you see him in one of the replays with his head. With his hands on his head. And even when Burgess has struck the ball, his hands are still on his head. The ball needs to hit the net to end his disbelief of what this is, what has just happened. I cannot think when have there been two finer, clearer strikes of a ball in succession like that. And I'm sure that that was also the thought passing through Ange Postecoglou's head somewhere in the recesses of it, because the other part of him looked to be saying, what did I agree to do? Again, why am I here? Which I think is. Is, to be honest, a valid question. When this is. This is not the job you take after what he'd just done at Spurs.
A
You don't think.
D
So this is. No, no. You don't take over from the best coach Nottingham Forest have had in their recent history since Billy Davis, as we.
A
Established.
D
The expectations that you're working with. When you've just seen extraordinary things achieved with a team which will do. Which would have done very well even if Nuno had continued to ascend the heights that they had done. I think that, yeah, this spoke more of a. Spoke more of inside Ange going, I'm gonna shut a few people up here. I'm gonna prove them wrong rather than taking the right job for him.
C
I think it matters that his. I think his kids are at school in London. And so he didn't want to. He didn't want to relocate, he didn't want to move further afield. And when this job came up, I think that's one of the reasons that's interesting.
A
And we quite often forget, you know, real life things that are happening to humans or you know, Nottingham Forest bloke in this situation. I mean maybe, you know, sometimes you can be unlucky, right? Obviously every time someone hits the post with a great strike and it comes back for a rebound, that rebound is ballooned into rosette. Like that is like the law of football. That's where it goes. And then it's two, two and it's a penalty shootout. They had made lots and lots of changes. We might as well start our Premier League preview with them. Then they go to Burnley on Saturday. I mean I don't know where Johnny on the sort of must win scale for Ange this is.
C
Yeah, I. Well, I think he's. That, that that defeat last night will have raised a bit of the pressure on him. I think slightly unfairly because you know, the guy's been in charge for two games and one of them was against Arsenal who are probably the best team in the country at the moment. And one of them was with a much changed team. And as we, as we talked about and they said, I think they showed.
A
Was so beautiful actually elements.
C
I mean you see, was it their second goal? I think it was. That was proper back to front. You know, when he, he talked about that, you know it'll be Wednesday, you know, we. It won't be this, this huge project. You'll see our style on Wednesday. That's kind of what he meant. Burnley obviously a much different kind of. A much different kind of prospect just because of the way that we know that they will defend. The way that we. That we know that they will approach the game and the fact that Forrest will have to. They will have to make the running. They will be under pressure to break them down and Burnley will quite happily as Forest did actually to a lot of teams last season to say, look, we'll break you down and we've got players who can counter us. So different kind of test. And I think that it'll be a good measure of where their developments are.
A
Two really big games this weekend. The early game on Saturday is the Merseyside Derby. Barry. So in what minute did Liverpool score their winner, do you think you about to say I think Everton will win? Is that what I wonder?
B
No, I don't. I don't think Everton will win. But I don't think I'll be massively shocked if they. No, I would. I would be surprised if they did. Everton are a bit odd. They've been getting good results without. I think playing particularly well their first home game at Hill Dickinson. I thought Brighton were much the better team and Everton still won that game. What was the 3:2 against Wolves? I thought they were a little bit lucky. I suppose my judgment is clouded and influenced by the fact that I predicted they'd have a very bad season and now it's looking like they won't. Jack Grealish has been undeniably excellent for them. I'd imagine he'll cause Liverpool some problems, but I It's hard to see past the Liverpool win really, isn't it?
A
Sorry, I don't know. Two men just walked in. Are you. Is your house. They're removal men. Johnny, will you be removed from your from the house in one second?
C
No, they're decorators. They've just gone into that room to get there to get their stuff.
A
Because the way your Zoom is set up and may not work for listeners, it does look like a progressive number of people are just walking out of a tiny wardrobe behind you like a magic trick clown Mary Poppins wardrobe. How many people are in that wardrobe? That's actually the door right behind that. Behind that.
C
But it doesn't. It does, but it does look like because of the Narnia, because of the wardrobe in front of it, because of the clothes rack, it does look fresh. They are emerging from the if we.
B
Keep going, we'll see a lion and a witch come out.
A
Mr. Tumnus will finish the podcast. This is great.
D
Barry's professionalism there was excellent.
B
Unbelievable.
A
And I probably do what many listeners do. I was listening to his voice, which is soothing, but I didn't hear any of the words.
B
Well, nothing of much profundity I can assure you that me just very sitting on the fence on Liverpool Everton.
D
I checked this out. David Moyes has gone to Anfield 23 times and never won. And just I wonder whether Jack Grealish could be the figure to. To turn that tide. I like, I like the idea of him in a Merseyside derby, him embracing that atmosphere. But the thing that stood out for me from an Everton point of view, sadly is that the only time Everton have won there since 1999 was when no one was there to see it during COVID and there were no spectators in for that one. And so yeah, I feel. I feel a bit for Everton and also the way Liverpool are shaping up.
C
It doesn't feel like I think Everton will get something. I think the turnaround from, from Wednesday night to Saturday lunchtime. I know that, you know, they're both at anfield but physically, mentally, I think that that's a big ask for Liverpool. I think there's a, there's a good chance that Everton can, can hit them.
A
And actually, interestingly, on that sort of tiredness thing that we sort of tend to ignore once the game kicks off, Arsenal play City and Arsenal, you know, they're already home from like a comfortable if tough game in Bilbao, man. City have got to play Napoli on Thursday night. And so how much, Johnny, does that give Arsenal a bit of an edge against City?
C
No, totally. Because, you know, we've seen how, we've also seen how physical these games have been in recent years. You know, we've seen, we've seen sendings off, we've seen crunchy tackles and are incredibly intense pressing. You know, I mean, certainly if you think about some of the Arteta Guardiola duels from the last three, three or four seasons, they have been up there with some of the highest quality, not, maybe not the most exciting in terms of goal mouth action, but in terms of, in terms of two teams that have been set up to almost kind of exhaust the opposition all over the pitch, that, that is, that is the standard that, that they've, they have set. So I do think it matters. You know, obviously, you know, City are playing at home, but Thursday night, I mean, I, it's different with the Europa League, I think, because the Europa League, I mean, we all know the Europa League is not real football, but a Champions League game on a Thursday night against, against Napoli and then going to Arsenal on Sunday. Yeah, I certainly think given that the, the kind of, the margins at this level of the game, the physical margins, I think that extra couple of days is going to, it's a real help.
A
To Arteta, Manchester United, Chelsea. Barry, your thoughts?
B
I think Chelsea will win. Although weirdly, looking at this weekend's fixtures, I, I think you could make a case for the fact that there could be 10 draws out of 10 matches. I was, I was trying to do my last man standing earlier this week. I've ended up going for Wolves against Leeds. But I could make a case for every single game this weekend being a draw. But watching Manchester United in their current state, and it is a state, I couldn't make a case for them beating anyone.
D
Really the only case I'd make would be that they've got a full week's training. Although you wonder at this point, as.
C
Barry, does that help?
A
Oh, no, it's even worse when he's, he's reading, you know, Das Kapital to the, To Patrick Dorgoo or whatever. And this isn't, this isn't helping much. Brighton Spurs. Johnny, what's your take on the all new Thomas Frank Tottenham?
C
It's been, it's been impressive. I don't think it's been quite as impressive as people make out. I think that they've been a little bit lucky. I mean, if you, if you look at their sorry xg, you know, in and out, I think they have been, they have been outperforming it slightly. And we saw during the, you know, you discussed this. You would have discussed this on yesterday's pod, but certainly during the second half of the Villarreal game we saw a little bit of caution and negativity creep in, which I think is never far from the surface with spurs. But you know, I, I think right in a way. Tough place to go. Tough place to go. It's a place where spurs have actually been humiliated quite a bit in, in recent times. You know, they also. They went to nil up was it last season, lost 3, 2. They. They. I think they lost really quite heavily like 3 nil a couple of seasons ago. It's a place that they found really tough because Brighton is a tough system to break down and they, they bring, they bring angles at you which unless you are pretty secure and you know what you're doing defensively are. They could catch you up very easily. So again, it's a big test of how well Frank has set up that, set up that defense and how well he's drilled them.
A
Huge few days for Fuller, Marchi, Brentford at home at the weekend and then Cambridge at home on Tuesday in the carabao. We're taking 5,000 there you will never have seen. It'll be like Galatasarai away for your lot when you see the Cambridge ultras. Is there a Posha football someone said, is there a Posha football match ever?
D
Fair point. I thought of you when Cambridge nearly did what Manchester United couldn't in winning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were robbed, but we're denied there.
A
Right.
D
So look, if Kevin's not playing, then you might have a chance.
A
Yeah, he looked good, didn't he?
D
But Kevin looks really good. I Twinkle Toad. He is doing things that I can't remember many wingers at Fulham doing as sensationally. I, I think he may even eclipse Luis Boamorte in terms of the, in terms of the dribbling that I remember. And albeit that that's a very long time ago and I don't think Luis Beaumorte was capable of doing the Number of step overs that. That Kevin is capable of doing. So there's that Brian Ruiz.
C
Are you a Brian Ruiz man?
A
Oh, yes.
D
Like man's got an ice cream scoop but he's not, he's not got a dribble. He's got an ability to look elegant and honestly, it felt like he was kept at the club against his will. I've never seen anybody look more pissed at having scored a 90th minute winner for us.
A
Didn't you have Berbatov and Ruiz at the same time?
D
Berbatov, Ruiz, Darren Bent and Adel Tarapped as a front four that started for Fulham at some point. Which on paper you're like, oh, those are four good players in separate teams. If you split them across four different.
A
Teams, you can read a Jonathan Wilson piece going, ruiz and Berbatov aren't going to press, are they? You know, that's your issue.
D
Exactly that. Brentford, Fulham. Brentford, as I will always remind you, is a big deal to both sets of fans involved here. There is hatred of. Of each other. Brentford had the upper hand for a while. I would say that we have the upper hand right now. Harry Wilson is the buzzword from Fulham fans point of view and singing about him after the miraculous turnaround that we did last season in injury time to beat Brentford and then Harry Wilson doing similar. A similar job away at Brentford last season. Yeah, it should be a spicy Saturday night.
A
All right, West Ham Palace, Bournemouth Newcastle Wolves leads as well. Cover them all on the weekend's pod. Monday's pod on Sunday. Spencer says hi, Max and Barry. My daughter just got a call up for the women's team and is so nervous. The United States Soccer Federation. We listen to your pod during all the painstaking drives to practice games. It would make her world for a shout out on the pod if it makes sense. Either way, thank you for providing a great soundtrack to us and from all those relentless but beautiful car rides to practice and games. Without you, we'd be listening to Taylor Swift in the car, which arguably would get you up for the game more than our witterings. Keely Shelton, U.S. soccer Federation Talent ID center selected. It says so. Look, Keely, you are now the best footballer that listens to this podcast. Harrogate goalkeeper may take issue with you. Our apologies. Our apologies. We're now all Keely Shelton fans. Good luck.
B
So what age group is Keely being called up to?
A
I don't have. I don't have that information. I don't.
B
Suspenser's your textbook soccer dad. Yeah, he's driving Keely to practice in.
A
His 4x4 up i35 to, you know, to Philadelphia for the next game. Good luck, Keely. Ryan says hi Max, Barry and the gang. Big fan of the pod. Proud to say I started listening as soon as the legend of the soccer M glory is Max Rushton started presenting in 2017. Like everyone, I've hardly missed an episode since. Honestly, I enjoy it most when the panel go off on random tangents. Seb Hutchinson's deep dive into his entire goalkeeping career, a recent highlight. I'm astonished that that all stayed in. This is the first I've learned of that. I'm getting married on the 20th of September and instead of asking Barry for his customary well wishes or ill will, I thought I'd ask for his advice. I'm a big Liverpool fan. When the fixtures came out a few months ago, I realized my vows will be happening at the exact same time as the Merseyside Derby. To make things worse or better, one of my best mates Dan, also a listener and Liverpool fan, is the celebrant leading the ceremony. The problem? My fiance Fiona isn't a football fan. I'm pretty sure she won't appreciate me or Dan sneaking a look at Livescore while I'm meant to be saying I do. Barry, any words of wisdom on how to handle this massive dilemma? Keep up the great work, Brian.
B
Well, it's not so much a dilemma, it's just a rookie error. A textbook case of someone arranging their wedding and not checking the sporting calendar first. I've attended a couple. One was a good friend of mine from Burr, got married on the same day that Ireland had a Rugby World cup quarter final against Argentina. A lot of rugby fans in the congregation. So what ended up happening was things were shifted around a little bit and at one point the wedding just more or less stopped for two hours so everyone could watch the rugby match in a big screen. More recently, the playoff final Championship playoff final. This season, one of my mates, Jonathan, big Sunderland fan, season ticket holder. Not Jonathan Wilson, a different Jonathan, he couldn't go to that because his brother was getting married on playoff final day. And when his brother told him what day the wedding was on, he immediately went that's the playoff final guarantee. Sunderland will be in it. And they were. So it's a rookie error, Ryan. You just gotta suck it up and you'll find out what the score was after you have exchanged vows. If Fiona turns up.
A
Yeah. And also like the vows are quite short, aren't they? So if you vow, if you've got an early. The trouble with early, the early Saturday weddings is there's no atmosphere, is it? People aren't as up for the vows at 12:30 if they are 3 o', clock. Especially like an evening vows. You know, vows under the lights. They are the. Really the best. They're the best ones, aren't they? But, you know, if you get your vows done, it's not going to take 45 minutes.
B
Well, if it's a Catholic mass wedding.
A
Oh, go on forever.
B
Yeah.
A
I was at a Catholic wedding in Galway and halfway through we realized that the canon was called Peter Rabbit. And it just was just too much for me that this guy was called Peter Rabbit.
B
I don't. I don't think he was. He's a priest. Max, isn't Canon one a Protestant thing or a.
A
Well, I don't know, it said at the bottom, canon Peter Rabbit, but priest. My apologies.
B
Oh, no, actually Canon. Canon. Canon is. It's. It's a step up from Monsignor, I think. So I think it's Priest. Monsignor can. Anyway.
C
Yeah, sorry, the buffet was just carrots.
A
Yes, he came out of a hutch. You're right, Johnny. And ate a carrot and then delivered this. Anyway, my love, to that couple who were married and to Ryan and Fiona, of course. And just find out that, you know, just watch the second half. That'll be during the photos. What you do is you say, now it's wife and family and they do 45 minutes of photo and then you come back in for your photos. Anyway, that'll do for today, won't it? Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Barry.
B
Thank you.
A
Thank you, Archie.
D
Thanks, Max.
A
Thank you, Johnny.
C
Thank you.
A
Thank you to all the men in your wardrobe as well. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard. This is the Guardian. Hi, pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here too.
B
Hello.
A
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B
A brand name and an adjective.
A
Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to do's and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist? Barry Although not like you, a proper football journalist? Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper Tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks, and if you do need to recharge, you can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes.
B
Barry Fantastic.
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This episode of Football Weekly, hosted by Max Rushden with Barry Glendenning, Johnny Liu, and Archie Rhind-Tutt, offers an in-depth, lively, and occasionally digressive review of a dramatic week of European football. The discussion centers around Liverpool’s uncanny knack for late wins, Bayern’s convincing victory over Chelsea (with Harry Kane starring), PSG’s demolition of Atalanta, Inter’s solid win at Ajax, and throws in tangents, jokes, and insight on the coming Premier League weekend.
A classic Football Weekly blend: sharp tactical analysis, player highlights (particularly Liverpool’s late drama and Bayern’s talent glut), a healthy helping of irreverence (wardrobe gags, Stalin/football manager comparisons), listener shout-outs, and a thorough preview of the Premier League weekend. It’s a must-catch for those seeking both insight and entertainment.
Panel:
Max Rushden (host), Barry Glendenning, Johnny Liu, Archie Rhind-Tutt
Key Matches: Liverpool–Atletico (UCL), Bayern–Chelsea (UCL), PSG–Atalanta, Inter–Ajax, Carabao Cup upsets, Merseyside Derby preview
Style: Informal, witty, insightful, and occasionally delightfully off-topic.