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Football Weekly
Manchester City on the march as Arsenal drop points at Sunderland – Football Weekly
00:53:54
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Lucy Ward and Will Unwin as an imperious Manchester City thrash Liverpool and Arsenal drop points for the first time since September
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- [00:00]
A
This is the Guardian.
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B
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. There is league. Manchester City move to within four points of Arsenal at the top after a brilliant 30 win over Liverpool. Jeremy Doku again outstanding. 1000 games for Pep will do the full countdown. Arsenal concede late at Sunderland. Dan Ballard with an actual Roy of the Rovers performance. A goal, a an assist and a stunning block late on. What a noise at the Stadium of light. Spurs 2, Manchester United 2. An odd game with two odd teams. Personally I'd have marked Mathijs de ligt in the 96th minute. We'll ask whether Rob Edwards has checked the league table before taking the Wolves job. Celebrate Emi Buendia being back on the pitch and playing well. And ask whether Newcastle fans should worry about their terrible away form towards the bottom. There's a big win for Forest, a big win for West Ham and a big win for Everton and Palace and Brighton happen. All that, a snowy overhead kick in Canada and more pathetic begging for you to vote for us in the FSA awards. All that plus your questions. And that's today's Guardian. On the panel today. Barry Glendenning, welcome.
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C
Hello Max.
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B
Hello, Lucy Ward.
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D
Hi Max.
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B
And welcome Will Unwin.
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A
Hi Max.
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B
For the tape, if you knew how long it took us to record just the welcomes. This podcast took like 25 hours to record. But for you it'll be perfectly edited down because we have an amazing team behind us. Let's begin at the etihad. Manchester City 3, Liverpool nil. There is a title race and I feel Barry, like I only say the word ominous in footballing terms with Manchester City, but they look ominous.
- [01:33]
C
Yeah, you can kind of hear the Jaws cello theme music, can't you? I'm sure Arsenal can. At least in the build up to this game. There was a lot of talk about it being Pep's 1000th game as a coach and with his various different teams. And he said that Liverpool would be the ideal opponents for such an occasion. And now we know why. I guess because Manchester City swatted them aside with I would say a minimum of fuss. Liverpool did not play well. Erling Haaland got his goal. Jeremy Doku was brilliant. Again, not. Certainly not for the first or second or even third time this season. But I. I can't think of a better performance. He put in in his City shirt any talk that Liverpool had had hit their stride and refound their mojo. I think Ernest Slot will have a lot to think about over the international break, which I guess will be dom by talk of Liverpool Being black in crisis because people sort of run out of things to talk about during the international break, particularly when there's not much at stake for England. So it's very difficult to see Liverpool mounting a title challenge. For now, they've already. From here because they've already lost five games. Teams that win the title 10 these days tend not to lose more than five, six maximum. So they've lost five already out of 11. And Manchester City, yes, they are looking ominous.
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A
Lucy.
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B
Doku is extraordinary, isn't he? For someone who. Because it must be. This sounds. This might sound ridiculous, but like, he moves his feet like a cartoon, you know, like sort of roadrunner. And to move your feet that quickly but to stay in control of the ball is extraordinary.
- [03:21]
D
Yeah. I can remember first seeing him and thinking, wow, that I haven't seen somebody dribble like that for a long time. And it. What the. Because he's so strong, it's very difficult to get him off the ball. But now what he's done is his final ball is better because he dribbled. We have a lot of professional footballers over the years who dribble well and then when they get to the end of it, it's like, you know, what. What's next? But I think he's improving that. And obviously Pep wouldn't have him playing if he didn't do that. But I just think at the moment he's unplayable. I don't think there's anybody else that dribbles the same as him in world football at the moment, which, I mean, even when he's doubled up on, he just sort of batters them out of the way.
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B
And also, like, he, from a standing start, wheel, he can just. He's sort of like naught to 100 in about half a second.
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A
Yeah. You ask any footballer what they're afraid of, it's speed. And when you're a fullback, having to go backwards against someone that can, you know, flick of a switch so he goes quickly as he can. It's incredible. I mean, so you see him from the start. I think, you know, when he came one of his early games against Bournemouth, he got four assists and a goal. You thought, incredible. You know, this is what he can do. But you're never going to do that consistently. And it's taken him a. A long time to get up to that level on a regular basis. And I think he's always. Obviously, he's got all these things in the locker and it's. You play more, you know, more how to use Them and things like that, but also the confidence when you're fully confident, you know what you're doing next and say, I think in previous times Haaland probably didn't know what was coming afterwards and I think Doku probably didn't know what was coming afterwards. But now, you know, he's cutting inside his winning penalties, scoring goals. Yeah, he's incredible. It's sort of. And I think the exciting play that you want to see that front, well, not from three, but the three behind Haaland, of Doku, Cherky and Foden, you're not going to get more excited than that, I think in the, in the Premier League or World football at the moment when they're on top of things. And in addition to that, they could all play in any of those roles and they keep rotating to, you know, confuse defenders even more. So. So, yeah, it's. It's exciting to see Doku at his very best, you know. And yes, if you think that Conor Bradley did pretty well against Vinicius Junior, he had no chance against Docu.
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B
Yeah, you did think, ah, I've seen him off this week, the rest of my week should be fine. And then you check your diary and it says Jeremy Doku on Sunday, like.
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C
Oh, I, I think it would be very unfair to lay much, if any, blame. And Connor Bradley's door yesterday, I thought he did as well as could be expected considering the amount of help he did not get from. Well, he got no help from Mo Salah. I wonder, does Mo Salah. Is he told not to help out or does he just not help out? I don't know. And well, on the one or two occasions that Ibrahima Kanate tried to help him out, he was more of a hindrance than a help. And. And it led to City's first goal. I think. So, yeah, yeah, I, I wouldn't be scapegoating Bradley for this one.
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B
And yeah, Konate was a bit like one of the. One of those guys in Home Alone, you know, just like treading on roller skates and landing on eggs and actually Nico.
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A
Right.
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B
You know, at the same time, Lucy, Nico O'Reilly is really helping Doku and had another really good game.
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D
Yeah, he is. And obviously in the England squad as. As well. And I think what, what's interesting is that what Barry said, he salary isn't supposed to come back and help. Who is supposed to help is obviously supposedly. And Kanate. And Kanate had one of his, not one of his better games. I think you even. He started off quite slowly And I think as soon as Liverpool fancy karate stop starting off slowly they think oh no, this is not good. So initially for the, for the penalty and then for the. For Haaland's goal, the header he was squared off. So he didn't have any, any idea really other than Harlan breathing down his neck whereabouts he was and you know what his movement was and he's jumping. So yeah that, that didn't help. I did think Liverpool were a little bit unlucky about disallowed goal. I think that two big chances that they missed but they're still below par that what City did is they sat in the middle of the pitch. They didn't go and try and sort of press high or they didn't. They just. And Liverpool because they've not got the likes of Alexander Arnold that can sort of ping a pass to. To. To negate that in the middle of the pitch they really struggle to get through. And I think that's. That's going to be a problem for. For Liverpool and has been this season. But obviously then the confidence is lower as well. I think it's this. There's lots of stuff going on with Liverpool that that sort of works itself out to be having a massive effect. But all little bits.
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B
I mean slot. After the game Will said that even if that goal had been allowed City would probably have still won. So perhaps we shouldn't spend too much time on it. But I wonder if the law should be. And maybe this makes it too subjective. Would the keeper have got it? Because Donnarumma wouldn't have got it whether Robertson was there or not.
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A
Yeah, Donna river wouldn't have saved it but Robertson was clearing an offside position. I think the goal should have been given. On balance what I would say is that the decision was made on field and I don't think it's a complete wreck of a decision. If we can sort of complain about VAR over officiating and things like that. You know you say on balance it should be a goal but the fact that it wasn't given I don't think is an absolute nightmare. I'd be upset if it happened to my team obviously. But I don't think it's the be all and end all of the result obviously. But I would argue that it's not a major mistake as sort of discussed in certain circles.
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B
So the people complaining about it are saying we do want them to re referee the game is what they're saying. What we really want is VAR to re referee it from a Liverpool perspective. Barry And I know we've talked about, you know, these new signings and players needing time. It does feel like it is an issue if you break the transfer record twice in one summer and for various reasons, neither of those players make any meaningful impact. What are we now? The.
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C
10 November certainly does in the case of Alexander Isaac who is like he was on the bench yesterday. Didn't come on. He has done nothing of note in the Liverpool shirt and he cost £130 million. And I'm not sure why that's not more of a talking point, if I'm honest, because I don't recall anyone mentioning it yesterday in the. The TV coverage. Why isn't he playing? Why didn't he come on?
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D
Something that's not mentioned is that how much money they recouped. They talk about how much money Liverpool spent. They did recoup over 200 million. I get Barry's point about Isak. He obviously shows that those players who don't have a pre season and he obviously didn't do that much in pre season and, and now I think slot is whether he's worried about him getting injured again. He obviously has got injury, whereas if you look at his injury record, he is. He has got something that's obviously continuous in the background that he doesn't want to sort of play in. Because why would you not play him against, you know, Manchester City yesterday? So that's going to be an issue for Liverpool having two players that they've played a lot of money for, plus Verts who has not hit the ground running. And he's a very, very good player, but he's not showing it at all. It's a problem.
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B
I mean it's nothing to say Luis Diaz would be having a brilliant for Liverpool, but the fact he's having a brilliant season for Bayern affects it when you watch it and you just see how, how, how much they miss him. So a thousand games for Pep will. He's won 716 of them. A win rate of almost 72%. He's lifted 40 major trophies. That's won every 25 games pretty much he's lost just 128 times. You know, there are obviously caveats. He's always managed good teams. There are caveats around Manchester City about their ownership really pertinently now, but also with the charges. But still that's quite a good. That's quite a good win percentage. If Tim Sherwood had that, he would be yelling about it, wouldn't he?
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A
Yeah, but how would he get on Atrington Stanley that's the question, isn't it? Obviously you look at Guardiola over that time of Barcelona Bayern and you know, actually this City team is quite pertinent in all this because where other coaches have probably not been able to evolve as much, when Guardiola sees a problem, he changes it. He adapts, he looks forward. Last season was written off very early on and now you look at the team that players were brought in. Nico Gonzalez when he joined in January till the end of the season was, I think mediocre at best, but he's improving. Guadiolo identified him maybe because he was available, but an intelligent guy that could learn LaGuardia all the way. Whereas maybe other defensive midfielders he wasn't confident in. The fullbacks last season were, you know, mildly farcical. I mean, didn't exist for a lot of the time. But now Nunes is after a terrible again probably year trying to learn how to play right back. Looks really good. You know, the cross for the opener on Sunday. And Nick O'Reilly who came through the academy as a central midfielder and tells people he's a number 10, is, you know, now City's best left back. I know we can't, you know, not even considered to challenge him for the Arguably, you know, one of the biggest games of the season against Liverpool. And so this is it. He keeps evolving, he keeps changing from bringing in, you know, going from false nines to Harland, you know, having Ibrahimovic at Barcelona, things like that, it always changes. And he knows how to use these players and he sort of try stays a step ahead, which is very difficult. A lot of the managers are reactionary, but he's trying to get, you know, ahead of people. Of course, you know, a lot of money to spend spending 50 odd million quid on Nico Commissar. No one else is doing that I appreciate. But yeah, an incredible energy, incredible sort of longevity of it all is really impressive. And you know, obviously he deserves great credit for that. And yeah, to market with such a dominant win is probably, as you say, ominous for everyone else that you know what you can keep doing.
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B
Yeah, I mean you do joke about at the start, I would like to see him have a season at Accrington and see what he could do. But anyway, to the Stadium of Light, Sunderland. To Arsenal too. Barry, you must have enjoyed this.
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C
I tell you, it was a really good game and a brilliant result for Sunderland. Obviously further enhanced them by Newcastle's defeat at Brentford on Sunday. I suppose when I think Eddie Howard is fourth anniversary last week in charge of Newcastle and when the Saudi public investment fund took over at Newcastle and those guys were dancing outside St. James's park in there with the tea towels on their head. Sunderland were in League one. I wouldn't imagine they envisaged that in four years time Sunderland would be in fourth place in the Premier League. They'd be two points above the relegation zone. Life comes at you fast I guess. This was a brilliant game. I thought a setback for Arsenal. People were wondering is it a good result for Arsenal? Is it a good point? Is it a bad result? But they were going to concede a goal eventually. A brilliant goal by Dan Ballard to open the scoring for Sunderland. Put the black cats among the pigeons and it was a very suddenly very physical team. They're a very good team. I don't think they're there where they are by fluke they've beaten some good sides. This was an excellent draw for them even though they left it late. But they do have a habit of scoring late goals and it was one such which which earned them a point here that I think they thoroughly deserved.
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B
I, I agree with you Lucy. What impressed me actually when it went to two one that's a brilliant goal from Trossard is I think everybody thought well look at Arsenal they've done it again. The resilience is there. But Sundom were really patient. They didn't just lob it in the box, they, they played and they tried to create the right space and the, you know, the right time to, you know to get the ball in. I was just really impressed with that.
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D
Yeah just Labrie's got the, got them all at it. I think Arsenal will rue the opportunities to go 3:1 up at that point when there was a period of time when Sunderland were really on the ropes but stayed in the game. I think that sort of lack creative options coming off the bench because they had the injuries. You know when Arteta turns around and looks at his bench and sees younger players even though they're absolutely excellent younger players that's probably not the time to, to throw a 15 year old on. When Sunderland were playing and they sort of roughed them up a little bit. They also sat back a little when they, when they could have gone for it but it swung away from the bat. Sunderland brilliant pressing man to man, high tempo. They're well organized and what they do it tactically is brilliant Labri he that you can't always tell how they're going to play with the. When when the opposition have got the ball sometimes they go high, sometimes they sit sometimes they, they go quite close to their own goal and defend the edge of the box so it's difficult for it to, to play against them. You got. Is it Siddiqui and. And Jacques central midfield Isidor Brobi. I watched it at Ajax so they've got a, a threat when you put the ball into the box. They're all tenacious and they understand what, what's expected of them. You know, I don't obviously they're over performing but we've seen teams come into the Premier League and do what Sunderland have done and, and keep going at it. I think Sheffield United did it just something a little bit different and he certainly has the tactical now to, to keep them and that obviously it's all about the players, the players that are good enough.
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B
I mean it's worth pointing out you're right. The, the Arsenal are missing. Martinelli, Yokerez, Odegaard, Madawa Havertz, Gabriel Jesus. That's a lot of attacking and creativity that they're missing. But still. And I thought that finish as well. Well actually from Brobbie is worth mentioning, isn't it? I mean both Sunday goals were brilliant.
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A
Yeah physicality the Acro, you know, the sort of acrobatic nature of it all moves goalkeeper and defender around him, it's you know, incredible. I think Arsenal just, just the fact that he used his body and you know, got his foot a little bit wanted a free kick but there's no chance of that and it shows that you know, invested throughout the squad at Sunderland. So someone like Robbie that maybe he's been sort of tipped for no offense sudden to start the season but bigger things have brought him in and have sort of very sensible signing as a, as a striker. Both goals are great. I mean say you look at the, the Ballard touch and finish, you know, man for the big moment. You know you look at the block at the end, the playoffs at the end of last season, you know, this is him as well and he's one of the very few that have stayed in the team for the end of last season and to get that amount of investment into a squad and a number of players and to coach it into a sort of cohesive unit is really impressive from the Brise if you count who, who's carried on through, you know, the goalkeepers change, the fullbacks, everything and then you've someone like Brobbie that's come in maybe someone that was expected bigger and better things of in his early career than joining a team that had been promoted to the Premier League but it shows what you can bring if you have that investment, if you know they are paying a lot of money for these people. But the Premier League is the place people want to be. And that finish from Brobbie, physical acrobatic goalkeeper and defender descending on him. It's really, really good. Arsenal probably wanted a free kick for it for some reason which I can't understand. That's what they have. They have the ability to be patient but have that physicality in the moments where it matters and the size of decisions and yeah, they've done really well considering 11 games in to be a cohesive unit with us overhauled squad and everything.
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D
When I go around Europe or what doing games like Chelsea last year where it was games like Noah and places, you know, teams like that that I have absolutely no idea about the players until I start to research, it seems to be that the best players that I saw last season are now all playing for Sunderland. So in terms of the recruitment and the scouting, very, very good. I was like, oh, I'm sure I saw Edler look back. Yeah, yeah, he was at Club Bruges or wherever where he was. So that I think that an important part it's not about, it's not about just throwing a load of players together. They've obviously looked at it and whoever they've got recruitment wise and I think probably out of all the promoted clubs they've got their recruitment department sorted. Sunderland because they fit together and they have everything that Labri needs for them to function properly in the Premier League.
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B
Highlight the game was David Rare making that save and then not knowing where the ball was like a kitten playing with a ping pong ball. And also Barry, that Declan Rice slip at the end, you must have thought, hang on, were in it. Was it Lefay? I can't remember who was through. Just for that one moment where you were like this could be it.
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C
Yeah. Declan didn't have brilliant game here. He was at very much at fault for the first goal and funnily enough, Gabrielle you could argue was at fault for the second. And they're, they're sort of Arsenal's two most reliable players. Either team could have won it right at the death. Yeah, Super Dan Ballard, his goal saving block towards the end was. It would have been horrific to, to lose it after all at that stage.
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A
Oh, oh, that would have really hurt, wouldn't it?
- [20:01]
C
Yeah.
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B
So Arsenal's next three games, spurs at home, buying at home, Chelsea away. So they will be interesting. And before we end part one, we are nominated for the best podcast at the FSAs. We need your vote. If you just Google FSA Awards 2025, you can find the link on our Instagram Blue sky on my X account. Etc, etc. Barry, why should people vote for us? Because they didn't last year.
- [20:23]
C
Yeah, because they didn't last year. It was apathy on our part or complacency in our part, apathy on theirs and laziness. It takes less than two minutes and you can vote for Lucy Ward as Best Pundit while you're in there. So. And. And there are lots of other Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Sophie Downey is nominated, I think for Best writer. So lot lots of Guardian folk to. To vote for.
- [20:49]
B
Yeah, so much.
- [20:50]
A
As soon as well.
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B
And not the 20 our friends as well. You have until midday on Monday 17th November. Vote now. Vote often. Thank you so much.
- [20:58]
C
Vote on all your different devices.
- [21:01]
B
Please do. But now if we don't win. God, it's even worse if you're so appalling and desperate about it. But it's okay if we don't win. We just don't mention it afterwards. Lucy. Yeah, that's fine. That'll do for part one. Part two will begin at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's go to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Spurs to Manchester United 2. Nikaim said afterwards, a wild ride that left everyone back where they started. I mean, I guess, Lucy, you might be forgiven for thinking this was a good game because of all the goals in the last 10 minutes. It wasn't a good game, but they're too really interesting sides because they're quite hard to work out what they're doing a lot of the time.
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D
Yeah. I think that the two sides that are not quite where the manager wants them to be, but are showing signs. I mean, Spurs. I know you're a Spurs fan, Max, but I do like Thomas Frank and he's going about spurs in the way that he thinks is the best way in terms of. You don't sort the defense out first because you can't separate things in a team. But. But he's making them less open for the majority of the time. And I've done them a couple of times. But what that does is it makes them. If that doesn't quite work and they lose and he's like, what. What am I watching? Because I'm not watching a performance and I'm not watching a result. I don't think that they have recruited as well as they could in. In attack. I think Simons I've seen a number of times at Leipzig and other clubs and he's been very good but you just never know when they just put them into it. They have to come into a team that's doing all right. I think that's the. That's the thing. But Man United, I think they look set up, they set up now. They look really well. They lock on, they get close to teams, they don't look as open as it did. I think Casemiro in the middle is looking better but they still need legs in that central midfield. They look compact, the defense looks good. He always plays Harry Maguire which tells you a lot in big away games where you need. You need to be quite tough and have a leader there. Interesting that he played like a fluid front three Amarim full of three technical players who rotated so very difficult to defend against because obviously they knew that the. The two center backs for from the spurs are very, very good and it was quite effective up to a certain point before Cesko came on. But it's. Is it the fourth game in a row that Man United scored late which tells you a lot about them quite easily. Richarlison and the celebration when Richarlison scored was. It was mad because hasn't that happened. I said this on the radio. Hasn't that happened sometime before where Richarlison did like the chicken dance or something.
- [23:43]
B
And then Anfield in 2023? I think yeah, same thing.
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D
It's like you celebrate, you think, well I can just go for it here because they're not going to go and score at the other end and then when they go score it's like head on hands. But from a Manchester United point of view it's not really the fragility that you saw last season. I'm sure they're not improving as quickly as United fans want them to, but spurs were better in the second half, shifted up a gear, a bit more control, positive steps both ways but really a game that's not right high level but was entertaining towards the end.
- [24:18]
B
I mean it was better than Europa League final Barry, wasn't it?
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C
Only because of the last 10 minutes, but otherwise I would say no, I think. But obviously a flurry of goals towards the end is. Is going to leave you with the impression that oh, that must have been. That was a good game. But I would say for the first 80 minutes I was pretty bored watching it. It wasn't very entertaining. Lucy, I'm just curious to know as a former player, why Does Reuben Amaram insist on replacing one of his center backs in every game? It seems odd and something most coaches don't do.
- [24:57]
D
I don't know whether it's something to do with. Because he uses his center backs to, to start the. People would say, start the build up. So I don't know whether he changes his center back. So that different angle or a different way of getting himself forward. It must be, it must be something to do with when they've got the ball rather than when they haven't got the ball. However, sometimes the negatives outweigh that because what, what, what then happens is that you, you know, you're not a set at the back as you would have been throughout the whole of the game. So it's, it's, it's risk and reward and it'd be interesting. Has anybody ever asked him? But I'm presuming it's to do with how, how he, how they are coming out of the back.
- [25:32]
A
Last week I went to interview Lenny Yoro and he was asked about this very thing and he provided absolutely zero insight on the matter and just said, it's the manager's decision. So take that as you will.
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B
Where I get your Paxman? You should have gone full Paxman and just keep asking Lenny Yoro. Just batter Lenny Yoro down into submission. Answer the question, Lenny.
- [25:55]
A
Well, it was a very good interview where on some sort of media it says that his mother named him after Lenny Kravitz, despite the spelling being different, which he was asked by another journalist within this interview. And he goes, no, that's not true. Which is mildly unfortunate, but, you know, good research from everyone.
- [26:14]
B
And also, look, I mean, maybe rewarding for Thomas Frank that the spurs fans booed all his substitutions and they all went and did something quite useful that was brilliant.
- [26:21]
C
I think it's worth mentioning about Thomas Frank in that in his previous managerial roles, it has taken him over 10 games to get his teams playing the way he wants to. So spurs are now on what they've played about 15 or so under him.
- [26:38]
D
He's a proper manager. I think he's the real deal. Thomas Frank, just from, just from prep that I've done for when he was at Brentford and the sort of stuff that he does, watch interviews with him and the way, that way that he talks. And the thing is, I think he's a people person. You've got far too many in the game at the moment who are failing because they know it all on the paper and on the, on a screen. To show the players, but they cannot interact with the players. And I think that he, him and his staff have got that ability as well, which is the. The key.
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B
Yeah, no, I have faith. I'm. I think he's very good. Let's go to Stamford Bridge. Chelsea 3, Wolves. No, not necessarily the game. It was a very straightforward win for Chelsea. The biggest story is Rob Edwards. Wolves expecting to announce his arrival very soon. Three and a half year deal. He wasn't in charge for Middlesbrough's 21 win over Birmingham at the weekend. Borough say they're disappointed. Apparently compensation for £2 million has been agreed. Barry, Wolves at eight points from safety. Middlesbrough are in the top two in the Championship. What do you make of his decision?
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C
Well, obviously I have no real insight into what has motivated his decision. I presume it's a combination of getting paid more money, the fact that Wolves are in the Premier League and he has history with Wolves. He played for them. He used to coach their youth team. I think. I believe his family live in Telford near Wolves training ground. So it's a combination of those factors. Only time will tell whether it's a step up, a step down or a step sideways. I would say on face value, it's a step sideways at best. And if I was a Middlesbrough fan, I would be pretty fed up with them, if I'm honest. And I'd say if I was Steve Gibson, who seems to be one of the better chairmen in football, I would be very angry with him. But these things happen. As Roy Keane famously said, if you want loyalty, get a dog.
- [28:33]
D
It's interesting because when you first see it, you think, what on earth are you doing? He's actually got Middlesbrough going, even though he's. A couple of times after the game, he's got a little bit. Alan Partridge with some of his interviews, Rob Edwards and the Middlesbrough fans who are, you know, proper northern, looking a little bit strange at his antics on the side of the pitch. When they win, however they're winning. I think the key here is, like Barry said, he had worked as an academy coach. I think he was assistant to Kenny Jacket, I think it was. So he obviously wants to go home to one of his homes, so I can understand that. But, you know, you only have to look at the table to realize and look at the squad to realize that this is going to be difficult. I think a key thing is one of his assistants, Ad Vivish. He isn't going to Wolves with him from Middlesbrough. And those in the know know that he has a massive part to play in how successful Middlesbrough have been. And he's not going to Wolves.
- [29:28]
B
Was he the brains behind Covenant? Mark Robbins at cov.
- [29:33]
D
Yes.
- [29:34]
B
Unless I mean that maybe doing Mark Robins.
- [29:36]
D
No. Yeah, but he's very good. You need a good number two. I mean, quite a lot. You know, you need somebody who is different to you in terms of thinking, you know, like diversity of thinking. You need someone who. And a lot of football managers get people in who are their mates that they've had for years who do not go. In my opinion, you shouldn't do that. Or what about this? And they don't tend. They just have people who. Who laugh at their jokes and. And then you just become a caricature of yourself. Seen it a lot at Leeds over the years. That's. That's what's happened in the background. So you need somebody who's a little bit different to you, who will. Who will sort of. But he obviously it is a very, very good coach, very well respected and a lot of people think that a lot of stuff he did at Buru was, you know, was down to his work.
- [30:23]
B
That's why obviously, I mean, for me to get Barry to laugh at one of my jokes, it's next to impossible. So, you know, that's why I have a number two. We're different people, different, different views on the game.
- [30:33]
D
I'm quite pleased because he's not sat in that. The dark and in a pit. That man pit that he. Now we've got him under a little bit of light and you can actually. Andy's brushed his hair. Unbelievable.
- [30:44]
C
I have not brushed my hair in about 15 years.
- [30:47]
D
You can't tell.
- [30:48]
B
But anyway, look, nice moment, nice moment for Malag Gusto to score his first ever goal in the 98th game. And Esta is good. Are the Chelsea reports will Aston Villa for Bournemouth nil. Did you see this coming?
- [30:58]
A
I did speak to someone after the Forest game against Bournemouth. Bournemouth Warden, he said Bournemouth really don't look very good at them, you know, didn't play very well and that actually maybe it's. They are a little bit brittle about them. You know, it's a very young squad, say lost a lot of players over summer. You know, really done well to compensate for that with a recruitment. I saw them at Leeds and they weren't very good that day. So Menu was very poor. I think obviously yesterday. One problem was that throwed a little bit off guard by the head injuries early on and Smith having to go off and that changes things. But I think Iraola said They would pretty awful in the first half after that. Not much about them. Lacking energy obviously. Very good free kick from Buendia. Do like a straight run up and straight, straight over the top. Always, always an enjoyable one. And Arnold's strike was really good as well. But yeah, Bournemouth, I don't know if it's a little bit of high energy starts the season's caught up with them. A little bit tired, a little bit, a little bit leggy, you know, maybe even mentally fatigued from, from everything they've had to take on board with the, with the changes and stuff. But they're doing very well. They've set a good foundation for the season. And let's be honest, Aston Villa are no mugs. You know, they've had difficulties with balancing domestic and Europe. But you know, that squad as you see yesterday, I know Watkins missed out on England's squad so he had, he looked a little bit more live than I've seen him recently. You know, the sort of classic point point to prove to people more senior and you know, missed the penalty. You know, really, really good save from some years penalty from up by Martinez and you know, he made another cracking save with a deflected shot. So he wasn't, you know, easily could have had a couple of goals. It wasn't a complete, you know, roll over in the second half. But yeah, I just think maybe there's just say it's been quite an intense start to the season that might have caught with them and you know, Villa just found the stride and if those two things meet and it ends in a sort of dominate domination from Villa on their part.
- [33:04]
B
Yeah, I, I mean, I wonder, Barry, I guess there are so many teams in this division that are good and if you arrive and you're playing well and the other team just have a slightly off day, there will be, I think a lot of teams that have good little runs and then bad little runs.
- [33:17]
C
Yeah, filler decent team. They're brilliant at home. I think They've only lost one in 24 Premier League games at home. Bournemouth are an undeniably good team. I think this scoreline flattered Villa a little bit. They did deserve to win. Bournemouth were rubbish in the first half, but they missed two very good chances. Missed that penalty as well. And then up until near 80 minutes, villa only were only in inverter commas. 2 nil up could have been, you know, Borman probably should have scored and then, then the game got away from them. So I don't think they were as bad as the 4 nil suggests.
- [33:53]
B
We spent a lot of the last pod talking about how good Dan Burn'.
- [33:59]
A
I was thinking this.
- [33:59]
C
Watching this game yesterday. What all the. All the lovely things we said about that Burn. And he looked like a fan who. Well he is a fan who won a competition to play for Newcastle against Brentford.
- [34:13]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. Brentford won 3 1. They have an identical record, Lucy, in their first 11 games as last season. And when you consider who's left the club, you know, including Thomas, Frank and Whisser and. And Buemo, that is mightily impressive. But yes, Danburn is slower than Django Watara would be the sort of conclusion to this game.
- [34:30]
D
Yeah, I think that. That Newcastle have just shown in. In parts of this season that you know the injuries to defense, particularly to fullbacks. Livermento and hall is so important because Dan Burn does brilliantly. You know whether he. Whether he fits in at left back or whether he's playing as a center back, whatever. But as soon as you get him in a foot race with someone who's quicker than him, it's. It's difficult. He's like 6 foot whatever is 6 foot 20. It's like. It's very, very difficult for him to. To catch up. But Newcastle, they. They just look a little bit meek and mild yesterday, didn't they? They didn't. You know, Brentford at Brentford, they've got that model that you know, they were convincing us that which whichever manager was in, they'd still play exactly the same. And it looks like that that's is what. What's happened. They're leaning a bit on. A bit more on set pieces. Michael Coyote, I love him. He's great. Not just like. I think Keith Andrews called him the best long throw taker in the world. And they scored more than double the number of Premier League goals from throw ins than any other team. So they're using that to their advantage. But players are playing well. Thiago's playing well. He's got them going as a group. And they're just relentless. Everything they do. Brentford particularly at home, they're just absolutely relentless. And Newcastle just weren't a match for them. And it's disappointing. You know, you look at the. The Newcastle fans away from home. They haven't won in 10. Two points above the relegation zone. Barry, you'll be. You'll be pleased. But I think Newcastle fans just a little bit of a worry now. Just a lack of threat they're getting themselves. I've done some Champions League games at home and the atmosphere is brilliant. They play really well. They haven't managed to get Volta Marder keeping him going. He started off very, very well. But it's like Eddie Howe said, it's good a. It's like getting a brand new team together because the. The player at the top of it is not Isac and he's completely different. Obviously if it's been injured that he would have. They would have shared the minutes. I would. Would have suspected. But Volta Mater plays different and the whole team has to get used to that and they just. Just don't look the same.
- [36:32]
C
I think you have to ask questions about Eddie Howe regarding Newcastle's away form. This. This is a third game in a row they've lost away. Brighton West Ham, now Brentford. It was so obvious Byrne was going to get sent off yesterday that. Why wasn't he replaced? Like he. He got booked then he was very lucky that he. He fouled Utara in the penalty box. But Utara was incorrectly booked for simulation. Then he gave away the penalty and got sent off. Dan. You know we're criticizing Danburn but he's playing out of position again at left back against a very pacey winger. Lewis hall is on the be. Why he is a left back. Why not start him?
- [37:16]
B
To be fair, I think he was changed. I think Lewis Hill was just there ready to come on when that thing happened. So you know, fair enough.
- [37:23]
C
Sandro Tonali kept giving the ball away yesterday. But he. He seems to be undroppable. Joe Linton is not playing well but he. He keeps getting started. Except instead of Jacob Ramsey. So I. I do think while he is a very good coach, Eddie Howe was largely responsible for what unfolded yesterday and at West Ham.
- [37:48]
B
All right, that'll do for part two. Part three will begin at the City Ground. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Forestry Leeds 1. I mean we couldn't be more across this game. Lucy and Will, you were both there. We sent you both to the big one. It is Will. A massive win for Forest, isn't it?
- [38:10]
A
Yeah. First winning 10 in the league. First since the opening day against Brentford actually. And also don't to say this is Nottingham Forest, but I was there for both. And they're the only times I've seen Forest this season. So.
- [38:24]
B
Interesting.
- [38:24]
A
If Mr. Marinakis wants to pay me some money, I can attend all home games. Yeah, I mean the first half I would say was completely devoid of quality really. You know, two teams struggling for confidence. Leeds were sort of gifted. The opening goal and it was a really good finish from Leeds. But that was probably the best thing that happened was the match's goal and to give up, you know, the equalizer, you know, two minutes later is pretty, pretty criminal on their part. Another error. But obviously you can see that the foundations of having to go from Nuno to Ange to now very dian football where the defence was very solid yesterday. Nmetra apart from obviously taking advantage of the defensive mistake against Milinkovic and Murillo. Got absolutely no change out of them at all. Couldn't cope with the physicality, really. You know, spent a lot of time sort of moaning at the ref, but just didn't really have any ability to compete with them. And then it got to the hour mark and I think everyone could see that Leeds are there for the taking. And Dyche thought, yeah, I've got, you know, you look at that bench, some great players on it. So went with Awini over Eagle Jesus, who I don't think is a proper number nine. And so probably made a lot of sense and having Hutchinson on the right and Morgan Gibbs White was getting a bit more influence in the middle and things like that. And then doi had a good, really good game there for the taking and you know, once, you know, really good cross and header for the, for the second just to lift. I think the City ground until that point was really flat, I'd say. And it's not definitely not always the case. They're still sort of working out how dice will play and things like that and that lifted it. And then once Jack Harrison had to come on at left back and gave away the penalty again. Tochinson, who has really not done much since he's arrived at Forest for a big fee. Yeah, obviously that was game over. But big important changes from Dyche sorted out the defence that they had very few problems yesterday and at the same time made important changes at a crucial point. And they were all the right decisions, so plenty of positivity to take out of it. And after international break, they got Liverpool away, which is tricky. So if they'd lost yesterday against a, say, a dreadful Leeds team, yeah, it would have. Would have caused big problems. But yeah, the. The green shoots at Forest, are there?
- [40:40]
D
Yeah, I mean, I thought it was going to be really exciting. Two, two early goals. But like Will said, it was just lacking in quality. And I think you got one proactive manager in ditch who thought we can win this because this is crap and we can win this and put three subs on. And then a reactive manager in Daniel Farker who then thought, oh, I better put My subs on. But it was too late by. By that point and. And forest had gone 2:1 up. But the Leeds because they didn't. It's a balance with Leeds that they brought. All the recruitment has been sort of big and physical and run all over teams. But at some point you've got to pass the ball. So you've got Tanaka who physically probably can't stand an away game. But he's technically very good. So when they try and get. When they get the ball at the back and they try to build up, they look up and it's like right, well we're just going to go diagonal from right to left. So all Forest did was just drop the winger and thank you very much. I mean they got a goal out of it. Leeds. But Forest just. There was various points where Forest could have defended better. But all they did. Leeds was just go from back to front diagonal. Didn't try and really build from the back and pass it because he didn't really have the passes in the middle. And it was easy for Forest. But what Leeds fans are saying is that in the most. One of the most important positions in the. In the club, in recruitment. They've got somebody who's. Has not very much experience in first team professional football. And. And he's been at the club for. For years. And it's such a key position.
- [42:06]
B
What have they been doing? Have they just. They're just sort of cleaning up. What's the.
- [42:10]
D
Yeah, well, who knows. But I think. I think if you're going to keep Daniel Farker who actually looks like he's. He's tried to adapt that the way that Leeds are playing. He's changed the formation slightly in the recruitment. Trying to get more physical runners in there. Because obviously the experience he's had in the Premier League where he didn't do that well with teams. He noticed the physicality, the difference. But I just think that they haven't. They needed to really, really back him in the summer and they haven't. And you see in the fruits now and the run that they're on now. Villa, they've got Chelsea, they've got City there. They've got Liverpool. It's. It. It's. Yeah. It's not a happy fan base at the moment.
- [42:48]
B
It's interesting you talk about physicality because you'd sort of think if there's something the championship would match with the Premier League, it would be physicality. It wouldn't be its ability. Or is it finding physical players who are also technically good. Did you See what I mean? Like. Like the championship. You should be able to match the physicality of nothing else.
- [43:05]
C
Right?
- [43:06]
D
Yeah. I mean the thing is Leeds, is that they passed the championship to death and they had the pace in wide areas, in dungeons. Dan James and Nonto. Dan James came on as a sub and instead of going on the left hand side where Savona was really struggling, the right back for Forest throughout the match against Okafor, he put him on the right and it was a little bit too late. Nonto, I think he's been training but he's not entirely fit and he sort of lost a little bit of what made him good. So they had the. Basically had the four best wingers last season in the championship. Solomon went back to spurs and I think Ramazan is left as well. So they haven't quite got the. The squad doesn't look technically as good as it did last season in the championship where they, you know, they pass teams to death and just use that sort of pace in the wide areas as. As well. So it's. Yeah, it's. It's not. It's not good.
- [43:57]
B
Sean says can we unrelegate West Ham now? They beat Burnley 3.
- [44:00]
C
2.
- [44:01]
B
Two wins in a row. Barry, are you unrelegating them?
- [44:04]
C
Not yet, no. I'm certainly unrelegating Forest I think but I think it's too early to unrelegate West Ham. They. They only inverted commas be Burnley. But any win when you're in the position there in is a good one. There was a big, big protest before this game by West Ham fans who actually got. You often see protests where people have a fake coffin, you know, to symbolize the. The death of the club or whatever. And the West Ham fans actually sprung for a real coffin, which I was quite impressed by. I. I'm presuming it was empty. They didn't just like borrow it for a couple of hours.
- [44:46]
B
Do you think they like ordered the coffin? Like pretended someone had died to order the coffin. Like, like someone had to go and order it in like a I need a coffin way. Or do you think they just. They told.
- [44:56]
C
I guess. I guess you can just buy coffins.
- [44:59]
B
Are us if you want one.
- [45:00]
C
I mean there's a co. There's an undertaker's near where I live. I might drop in later.
- [45:05]
D
I don't think you can pass. I don't think you could just go in and buy a coffee. No. I think you might need a certificate.
- [45:10]
B
Do you need a certificate to buy a coffin?
- [45:12]
C
I don't know I presume there's some undertakers among our listenership if they'd like to clarify. Yeah, it was a good win for. For West Ham who went behind to a very good Zen Fleming header. The only setback for them was that Freddie Potts went off with what looked like a hamstring injury. So they might be missing him now for four to six weeks, what you'd imagine. Luckily there's an international break to take up two weeks of that. But good win for them. I'm not on relegating them yet.
- [45:43]
B
Fair enough. Yeah, Martin de Brackford didn't have a great time in goal for Burnley, but Alphonse Arreola just let one in as well. Just sort of for the goalkeepers union, didn't he? But look nice to see Callum Wilson scoring a very Callum Wilson goal and. And nice to see Carl Walker Peters. He looked very happy when he scored a goal. Yeah, something like 10,000 people in that protest with the coffin. Everton hadn't beaten Fulham since 2018 when Marco Silva was their manager. They beat them 2 nil Will Fulham one point above the relegation zone. Marco Silva was pretty scathing afterwards. Says it's not good enough at all. We didn't cope. It's a moment for us to blame ourselves and cliche alert. Look at ourselves in the mirror.
- [46:20]
A
Yeah. I mean it could have been far worse for the amount of disallowed goals knocking around as well. Yeah. Fulham have really struggled. Injuries have taken the toll. Sort of lack of investment in the squad is problematic which all frustrate Silver. Everton actually did some good business in the summer and started to. It's really showing now as well. Probably the difference in the two squads. Fantastic assist from Irobonham for Madrissa Gay. No need to try and score yourself and you can sort of dummy it against your own foot. I don't know what you call that but a fantastic moment. Good for the fancy football managers. They'll get the assist points from that.
- [46:58]
B
No, I think Dewsbury hall gets the assist. Interestingly. Not that I can. Not that I care but someone else today or something. Yeah, I did say interestingly because. But yeah, apparently. But do carry on.
- [47:09]
A
Well, yeah, considering Tarkowski trying to sort of thrash the ball through the net and whatnot. But yeah, I think Fulham are just sort of in a little bit of a blaze, you know, after a few quiet weeks for. For Everton they seem to be back at it Group, you know, Grealish Dewsby Hall's looking fantastic signing which considering he'd had next to no football Last season was a problem, but yeah, no, really, probably. Again, a tale of two summons of recruitment that Everton seems to have evolved after sort of difficult times. Visa West Fulham have rested on their laurels and I think what they signed Kevin and that's it. I mean, how much can you rely on a man named Kevin to change everything? So good they named him once.
- [47:49]
B
Kevin at Fulham, Barry at Everton. Barry had actually not a terrible game. Barry. The highlight of actually the game was Dewsbury Hall's disallowed goal where he kept celebrating even though the liner was right in front of him with the flag up going, this goal is disallowed. But didn't stop Kieran and just going, I'm gonna celebrate this one for Fulham.
- [48:06]
D
It's coincided with when. When postecoglou went from Forest. The Fulham sort of dip has coincided with the word on the street that Forest wanted the short term managers to the end of the season. And then take Marco Silva, who Marinakis knows in, in the summer. And I don't know whether that's a coincidence or not, but it just seems to have coincided with Fulham just, just not playing as well or getting the results. And Marco Silva not happy with, you know, the way his team are playing.
- [48:34]
B
Yeah, he's had his head turned so he's not looking at the pitch. And so that is a problem for Fuller.
- [48:39]
D
He gets his head turned a lot, doesn't he? He does flirt a lot, bless him.
- [48:43]
B
But he does stay a bit, you know, like he's just one of those. He's just a. He's just a bit of a bad boy in EastEnders but actually he's always loyal but he just occasionally, you know, he has to sort of sheepishly come back.
- [48:54]
C
Boy with a heart exactly like Jimmy Carkill.
- [48:57]
A
Yeah.
- [48:57]
B
I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. Sharon palace nil. Brighton nil. Any thoughts?
- [49:02]
C
Barry Brighton got a penalty and then it was overturned and Georgina Rutter was booked for quite correctly for a dive. And I think apart from that, yeah, nothing.
- [49:17]
B
Fine. David says no questions. Probably too raw to discuss in the pod. Love to Lucy for all that nonsense she's had to deal with in recent months. Always love it when she's on the pod, especially when she's giving Barry some stick. Yeah. Look, we've chatted about this before, Lucy. About what you want to say, what you can say, what you can't say about the, the Joey Barton case and you're in court, but I just. He's been found guilty of six counts of sending grossly Offensive social media posts aimed at you, any Aluko and Jeremy vine who'll be sentenced on December 8th. Just how, how was it? How are you feeling?
- [49:44]
D
I don't want to say what I want to say until after the sentences and obviously trust the legal process, but what I will say is it's been traumatic and harrowing couple of years and I, I still cannot and couldn't at the time and cannot get my head around someone who I've never engaged with, I've never met, want to try and sort of destroy my career and, and in terms that in my life as well. I think anybody who's been at the hands of like a, any sort of bullying or harassment will know how traumatic it is. And you know, it's just relentless. It was relentless for about six months, but it's gone on for two years. And it's not just a local thing, it's right in the public eye from someone with over two and a half million followers. You just can't escape it really when it comes down to it, it's, you know, just because I was a female doing a job somebody thought that I shouldn't be doing. I don't know if any of you have ever been a witness at a Crown Court trial, but he's so, so stressful. You get, when you get cross examined, you are on trial basically deeply, deeply unpleasant. And I just think, I think the message is that, you know, online abuse isn't trivial. I know that, you know, unless you're at the, at the heart of it, it's very difficult to explain but words do have power, you know, when they're used maliciously it causes real harm. But I'm glad it's over. I'm really pleased with the outcome and, and I hope that's the end of it.
- [51:05]
B
Yeah. And it must have been so hard to go through with the case. I mean, there must be so many times you thought, look, I hate this but I can't be bothered to like you say, be cross examined like you're, you know, a defendant throughout the two years.
- [51:17]
D
I had to keep going because I think you've, you, you've got to protect the women to come. You got to protect the women in the future. I think that's how I looked at it. And also, why should I take that sort of relentless bullying and harassment? Somebody has to stand up. But you know, when you get into Crown Court and you walk into a Crown Court as a witness and everybody's in there, jury, judge, and you're just like, wow, this Is this is real, this is, you know, it's tough, but like I say, when you questioned it is, you're on trial. I was basically trying to justify why I had my job, which was really, really unpleasant. But, you know, hopefully, I trust the legal process so far and hopefully the sentencing will, Will. Will justify what. What's happened to all three of us.
- [52:05]
C
All the usual freedom of speech advocates, let's call them on X, seem up, are open arms and seem outraged that. That someone could be convicted in a criminal court for what they say is hurty words. It's not just that. Is it though, like, as you've outlined, it's bullying, it's harassment, it's. And you're being subjected to it at the hands of someone you've never even met, who has a huge amount of influence. Their argument that he's been in some way hard done by, I think is nonsense.
- [52:41]
B
Anyway, Lucy, look, all power to you and thank you for being good and being on this pod and making it better. You know, as long as you don't shove us up too much. You're very welcome to be on as many times as possible. Slightly different subjects. Ronan says, is this the greatest snow goal of all time? I put it in the chat. I don't know if you've seen it. An overhead kick scored by Atletico Ottawa by David Rodriguez in the Canadian Premier League final. Played in an absolutely ridiculous amount of snow. That goal made it 1 1. Ottawa went on to win 2 1. So well done to them. But, you know, orange ball and snow is beautiful. You can't. You can't beat it. So thank you for bringing that to our attention. And that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Barry.
- [53:27]
C
Thank you.
- [53:28]
B
Thanks, Lucy.
- [53:29]
D
Thank you.
- [53:29]
B
Thank you, Will.
- [53:30]
A
Thanks, Max.
- [53:31]
B
If you've listened to all of this, go and vote for us in the FSAs, because otherwise we'll, you know, just, you know, just do the right thing. Thank you. Football Weekly is produced by Joe Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.
- [53:47]
A
This is the Guardian.