Manchester is blue and Arsenal brush Postecoglou aside: Football Weekly

Summary

Football Weekly – "Manchester is blue and Arsenal brush Postecoglou aside"

Date: September 15, 2025
Host: Max Rushden
Panel: Barry Glendenning, Jonathan Wilson, Lars Ivarsson, Lars Sivertsen

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Episode Overview

This episode of Football Weekly covers a big Premier League weekend, diving deep into Manchester City’s comfortable derby win over Manchester United and Arsenal’s dominant home victory against Nottingham Forest under new manager Ange Postecoglou. The panel also explores trends in set pieces, unexpected managerial struggles, VAR controversies, and the latest on Liverpool’s perfect start, with the usual sideways glances, digressions, and laugh-out-loud moments that define the pod.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Manchester City Dominate Manchester United in a Flat Derby

[01:52 – 14:54]

• Ricky Hatton’s Tribute: Before the match, an emotional moment for City and United fans marked the passing of boxing legend and City superfan Ricky Hatton.
  • "It was very noticeable that although Ricky Hatton was a City fan, United fans were just as vociferous in their appreciation. So it was a very moving...turned out to be about 90 seconds." – Jonathan Wilson [04:09]
• Match Analysis:
  • City were comfortable winners (3–0), with standout performances from Haaland, Doku, and Foden.
  • United started promisingly but faded, allowing City to manage the game with relative ease. Haaland and the attacking ensemble returned to form.
  • Foden ended a long personal barren run. "That was his first goal or assist in the last 11 appearances for City." – Barry Glendenning [05:17]
• Guardiola’s Tactical Shift:
  • City’s approach is evolving; more willingness to cede possession and defend compactly when ahead.
  • "There seems to be a broader shift...of him fully embracing that having possession is not always the correct solution to every single situation." – Lars Sivertsen [06:33]
• United’s Ongoing Malaise:
  • United now occupy a “middle ground of meh,” neither bad enough to sack the manager, nor good enough to worry the league’s top teams.
  • The system does not suit their players, as highlighted by Bruno Fernandes’ ineffective, withdrawn role and lack of defensive discipline.
  • The panel questions United’s seriousness: "I do think that you can't take United seriously anymore. They're not a big team....You should beat United." – Jonathan Wilson [10:58]
• Haaland Hat-Trick of Points:
  • Haaland’s record against United further cemented; the consensus is to stop doubting him.
  • "There's no point arguing against him...He's always going to make whatever critics he has look stupid." – Barry Glendenning [14:54]

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2. Arsenal’s Depth and Postecoglou’s Tough Start at Forest

[16:09 – 20:51]

• Arsenal 3–0 Nottingham Forest:
  • Impressive, routine victory for the Gunners, who rotated key players and still cruised.
  • "It could scarcely have been a more straightforward win for Arsenal and it served to show their strength in depth, the strength in depth they didn't have last season." – Barry Glendenning [16:20]
  • Noni Madueke shone on the left, exploiting Morato's positional unfamiliarity.
• Forest Under Ange:
  • No criticism of Postecoglou after just one session with his squad.
  • Ange’s post-match candour delights the panel: "He announced it will be Wednesday...No fannying about from Ange." – Lars Ivarsson [20:51]
• Debate – Are Deflected Goals Less Beautiful?
  • "If there's a tiny deflection on a strike, you know, it instantly can't be goal of the month." – Jonathan Wilson [19:31]
  • The panel share quirky but passionate views about “goal purity.”

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3. Set Pieces, Long Throws, and Tactical Trends

[23:11 – 28:53]

• Brentford 2–2 Chelsea:
  • Brentford’s set piece prowess is on display again. Long throws lead to their 7th goal this way since last season.
  • "Set pieces and long throws [are] phenomenally trendy right now. They're all the rage. They'll be doing them in the clubs." – Barry Glendenning [25:30]
  • The panel nerds out over the history and mechanics of the long throw, tracing it back to 1890s Sunderland captain Huey Wilson.
• Data Trends:
  • Notable rise in goals from long throws: 0.03% (2020–21) to 0.338% (2024–25).
  • Long throws are harder to defend because of their unpredictable trajectory.

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4. Spurs Ruthless at West Ham; West Ham Defensive Crisis

[30:26 – 35:00]

• Spurs’ Transformation:
  • Tottenham beat West Ham 3–0, thriving on set pieces under Thomas Frank’s urgent, robust style.
  • "It's just funny how that is just a complete reversal of what they were under Ange. And it's happened so quickly." – Barry Glendenning [35:00]
• West Ham’s Defensive Failings:
  • Potter’s side has now conceded 11 goals (8 from set pieces/crosses) in just three defeats. Defensive coaching and personnel come under sharp scrutiny.
  • "If you're West Ham, you cannot be conceding like eight goals from just balls flung into the box in three games." – Barry Glendenning [35:00]

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5. Liverpool: Flawed but Perfect

[35:11 – 40:32]

• Burnley 0–1 Liverpool:
  • Liverpool top the league with a perfect four-from-four record; every win sealed with a late goal (88’+, 95’, 82’, 94’).
  • "Maybe that is just a...they eventually wear opponents down rather than being incredibly lucky repeatedly." – Lars Sivertsen [35:59]
  • Scott Parker’s post-match: "We had to dig and go to places that not many human beings go." [39:05]
• Liverpool’s Season Outlook:
  • Questions linger over their defensive solidity and whether performances can match results.
  • "The fact that they can have these slightly iffy performances while this is happening and still have four wins out of four, I take that as a very positive thing..." – Barry Glendenning [40:32]

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6. Around the Grounds: Other Notable Matches & Themes

[42:22 – 58:57]

• Bournemouth’s Historic Start:
  • A third straight win, highlighted by Alex Scott’s “beautiful” goal and a discussion about manager Iraola’s acceptance of direct, aggressive play.
  • "I prefer too much chaos to too much organization." – Iraola, quoted by Barry Glendenning [43:23]
• Football Getting More Direct:
  • Panel notes a swing away from “Pep ball” and “control,” toward aggression, physicality, pragmatism, and direct play.
  • "Football is becoming a little bit more direct, is becoming a bit more aggressive again." – Lars Sivertsen [46:31]
• Newcastle 1–0 Wolves:
  • Voltimara heads his first goal for Newcastle, giving Eddie Howe options up front. Discussion of his qualities and fit.
  • Wolves remain pointless despite decent performances. Critical run of matches against fellow strugglers awaits.
• Leeds Suffer Agonizing Defeat, Everton & Villa Stumble:
  • Luckless own goal for Leeds; more evidence Dominic Calvert-Lewin underperforms his expected goals.
  • Villa are goalless after four matches, worst start since 1997–98.
• Palace & Sunderland Draw, Hearts Heap More Trouble on Rangers, Wilder to Return at Sheffield United?:
  • Sunderland claim their first away point, manager Russell Martin under fire at Rangers, and Ruben Selles sacked after six straight losses at Sheffield United. Chris Wilder rumored as potential returnee.
  • "This has not worked." – Jonathan Wilson [56:54] on Selles' brief reign.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On United’s identity crisis:
  "They're occupying this middle ground of meh where Amarim is allowed to keep bumbling along…" – Barry Glendenning [11:14]
• On Haaland’s critics:
  "He’s always going to make whatever critics he has look stupid. It’s just what he does, and it’s completely inevitable." – Barry Glendenning [14:54]
• On football’s changing tactical winds:
  "Football is becoming a little bit more direct, is becoming a bit more aggressive again...post-Pep ball world we appear to be moving into." – Lars Sivertsen [46:31]
• On Liverpool grinding out wins:
  "They can have these slightly iffy performances while this is happening and still have four wins out of four, I take that as a very positive thing…" – Barry Glendenning [40:32]
• On Scott Parker’s post-match metaphor:
  "We had to dig and go to places that not many human beings go." – Scott Parker (quoted) [39:05]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Tribute to Ricky Hatton & Derby buildup: [01:52 – 05:09]
• Manchester Derby tactical discussion: [05:09 – 14:54]
• Arsenal v Forest & the Postecoglou era: [16:09 – 20:51]
• Debate: Deflected goals, are they beautiful?: [18:57 – 19:46]
• Brentford’s long throw & set pieces: [23:11 – 28:53]
• West Ham’s defensive crisis & Spurs’ tactical identity: [30:26 – 35:00]
• Liverpool’s win over Burnley, late goal theme: [35:11 – 40:32]
• Bournemouth, tactical trends, bookings: [42:22 – 46:31]
• Newcastle & Wolves discussion: [47:12 – 51:25]
• Leeds’ own goal, Calvert-Lewin stats: [51:51 – 53:26]
• Villa’s woes, Palace vs Sunderland, Rangers in crisis: [53:49 – 58:54]
• Sheffield United sack Sellers, possible Wilder return: [56:31 – 58:57]

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In the Panel’s Words (Original Tone):

• Empathetic football nerdiness, lightly sharp analysis, and comic despair at Arsenal or United’s failings.
• Bizarre but sincere debates over what constitutes a “beautiful”, deflected goal and the cyclical nature of tactics.
• Glendenning’s self-effacing humor and dry wit, especially on managerial jobs and footballing fads.
• Lars Sivertsen’s trademark, “I’m not sure about that, but…” musings about direct football and transfer values.

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Conclusion

This episode provided a rich, entertaining glance at a defining Premier League weekend, with smart tactical explanations, data-driven insights, and classic Football Weekly banter—from the surprising emotional weight of a lost City fan to the mundane struggle of Leeds striker Dominic Calvert-Lewin. There’s plenty here for casual listeners and football obsessives alike, whether you want to understand key results, tactical trends, or just revel in the panel’s latest comedy rabbit hole.

Transcript

[Max Rushden]

This is the Guardian. Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here, too.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello.

[Max Rushden]

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to.

[Jonathan Wilson]

This show, you'll have heard us talk.

[Max Rushden]

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[Lars Ivarsson]

Remarkable. A brand name and an adjective.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to DoS and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Like maybe a football journalist. Barry. Although not like you.

[Lars Ivarsson]

A proper football journalist.

[Max Rushden]

Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can. You can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes. Barry.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Fantastic.

[Max Rushden]

Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today. Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Manchester City comfortably win the Derby at the Etihad. They were just better in all parts of the game that matter, that is Attacking and defending. Haaland was excellent. Doku too. And there was one brilliant save from the diminutive Donnarumma on his debut. United, meanwhile, were okay at times and not at others. Ange Postecoglou begins his Nottingham Forest reign.

[Max Rushden]

With defeat at the Emirates.

[Jonathan Wilson]

No shame in that. Arsenal were very good.

[Max Rushden]

Eze and Madueke, both brilliant long throws are back.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Brentford equalising right at the end against Chelsea. Graham Potter's really. Graham Pottering it up at West Ham. Spurs have a lovely afternoon in East London.

[Max Rushden]

Liverpool are the only team with a 100% record.

[Jonathan Wilson]

A handy ball from Hannibal in injury time. Sad face. And then there's a goal for Valtomada on his debut. Another win for Bournemouth. An agonising last minute own goal for Leeds. Also the end of Ruben Sellers at Sheffield United. One step closer to the end for Russell Martin. You presume your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today.

[Max Rushden]

Galacticos are out. Barry Glendenning.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Hello.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Hi, Max.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Welcome. Jonathan Wilson.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Morning. How you doing?

[Jonathan Wilson]

I'm all right, thank you. And good morning to Lars Ividson.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello, Max.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Let's start the etihads. Manchester City 3, Manchester United nil. Before we talk about the game, Barry, obviously this isn't a boxing podcast, but it was a very sad day for Manchester and from Manchester City because of the tragic death of Ricky Hatton. He was a massive City fan. City wrote Hatton wore sky blue shorts and used Blue Moon as his walkout song throughout his career. 2008, he fulfilled another dream when he fought Juan Lazcano at the Etihad Stadium. You were, you were on air. I was off yesterday on the radio. But you were on air when the news broke that.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah, very sad news. Hatton, as you say, was a massive City fan. He was loved by everyone in Manchester, I think he had Wayne Rooney bring his belt out before one fight when he was Manchester United player, I think. And I would imagine there was a lot of sadness at the Etihad yesterday after the, the news of his death broke. And yeah, it's, it's, it's really, it's sad, you know, I don't know what else to say.

[Jonathan Wilson]

No, no, no, no. And, and yeah, I interviewed him a few times and, you know, was always incredibly, you know, funny and interesting and, and nice, you know, and those things are quite important. Yes, Wilson.

[Lars Sivertsen]

I, I was really surprised by how emotional Pep Guardiola was about it afterwards. And yeah, he said that, you know, he's been at City 10 years now and he's been involved in a lot of commemorations of various people. But he said that, you know, he had met Ricky Hatton and had felt sort of great warmth towards him and he said that he felt that was the most emotional. He'd been in a footballing minute silence at City and I think they kind of messed it up and I don't understand how football does this when they've done this so often. But it wasn't clear when the minutes. Applause was starting, so fans started it earlier than was intended. The players weren't sort of in position so they sort of had to rush in. Anthony Taylor, then I Think had this sort of awkward decision. He was meant to start with a blow of his whistle, but then would people think that was the end. So he didn't do anything, which I think was probably the right thing. And it was very noticeable that although Ricky Hatton was a City fan, United fans were just as vociferous in their appreciation. So it was a very moving. Turned out to be about 90 seconds.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Probably, rather than a minute to the game itself. It was pretty convincing last in the end for City, wasn't it?

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, it was. I thought the first half was just kind of a bit scrappy from everyone involved and I think this was a theme over the weekend that we might return to. I do wonder if these sort of wins weekends immediately after an international break are a little bit affected by, you know, players only came back late in the week and. And because there were. I thought it was quite a few performances over the weekend where teams did not look at their best and thought the first half. Neither team looked. Looked very impressive. But City obviously went ahead e Holland back doing Elling Holland things. And that. That first. First goal, I think is kind of interesting because of all the stuff that wasn't going right for City last season. I thought one of it was that the sort of supporting cast in attack were not providing enough in terms of output. Dooku to an extent, but especially Foden. I think they said on the commentary that that was his first goal or assist in the last 11 appearances for City. I mean, please correct me if that's wrong, but Foden certainly has been going through a stretch of not having a great output and it's been hurting City a little bit. So great assist by Dooku and a good goal by Foden is a big boost for everyone involved. What I thought was really interesting, and it's maybe something Wilson's better positioned to speak about, was the way the second half went because City sat back.

[Lars Ivarsson]

City sat back.

[Barry Glendenning]

And we're quite comfortable letting United have the ball in a way that we haven't seen a loss from Guardiola, but I feel like we've seen it more often recently. And I think there is a broader sort of. There seems to be a broader shift there of him fully embracing that having possession is not always the correct solution to every single situation. But they looked very comfortable and I was kind of disappointed by United not challenging them more when they were kind of allowed to have the ball and given a challenge to go at City.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Is that right, Wilson? Is it? Sort of. Pep Guardi, Joe Zaylor or Conta or whatever.

[Lars Sivertsen]

I mean, Lars clearly. Right, they clearly did sit back. They were quite happy to let United have a ball. United, apart from that and Burma Volley, where Dunnar makes a very good save. United really created very, very little. And this is part of the problem with United and I've now done. There's only two United games. It feels like more than that. But I keep hearing United's adjournments to cover United. United fans. Oh, actually I thought they were all right because they were all right in part. And I thought first sort of basically before they went behind, their pressing was causing City problems, that Rodri looked really surprisingly shaky. Bernardo Silva gave the ball away a couple of times, which is not normal. So you thought, yeah, maybe, maybe there is something there for them. And I was at the City game at Brighton as well. And the first half was quite similar to that where it wasn't City as we remember them. It was quite scrappy. There were passes being misplaced. Reinders had a terrible first half, was pinging the ball out of place every time he got it. But then United's. There's just something not right there. They just don't. There's not a sharpness about them. So if you look at the first goal, all 11 United players are in their defensive third of the pitch, all the outfield players are in a 15 yard band between the edge of the box and, well, 33 yards out. I guess if it's 15 yards, you think, well, how do you concede in that position? Or if you are going to concede, it's got to be something unusual or special. And yet when Docker gets the ball, he's probably got 6 yards of space, 7 yards of space on all sides and he's found this square. So he's facing away from goal and to his right, ahead of him is Ugarte. To his right, behind him is Shaw. To his left, behind him is Daugu. To his left, ahead of him is Giallo. And that's square and he's in the middle of it and he's allowed to move to the top of the square. So furthest from the United goal, takes the pass. He's under no pressure as he turns.

[Jonathan Wilson]

He.

[Lars Sivertsen]

He then has by this point probably 7 or 8 yards of space to accelerate into. So suddenly he's accelerating at Luke Shaw on the edge of the box. Luke Shaw's static. And so they've created a situation a bit like a break, a bit like where you've had other players really able to run at A defender. How has that happened? If it happens on the break, fair enough. How has it happened when you have 11 players behind the ball? That's just awful marking. And then, yeah, Dku gets past him. Regatti does get past to block the first cross. The second cross comes in and there's Phil Foden in the box also in yards and yards of space. I'm not sure Bayern Deer covers himself in glory. I think he's a bit flat footed. It's a good header because there's not much pace on the cross and he's guided across goal. It's not a great header. I think a more alert keeper or a keeper who's a bit more on his toes would have got to it. So it just felt like a goal that United gave City. It was just incredibly sloppy, incredibly diffident. And then obviously they're chasing the game and they leave space behind them and kept giving the ball away. And City ended up having not just the two goals but another two one on ones where they hit the post of one of them and was it Reinders put the other shot just wide? Yeah. So it was 30 going on 50 without City really playing particularly well. They played okay in docu. Foden, Holland all had good games and it was good to see Foden back. I mean, I think that's his. I think he scored a couple of goals in the club World Cup. I think that was his first Premier League goal since January. But I do think that you can't take United seriously anymore. They're not a big team. They're not. You know, if you beat United, well, you should beat United. If you don't count. If you only count the 17 teams who've been in the Premier League the whole time that Amram has been Manager, United are 17th of a 17. If you drop a table from when he took over with 31 points from 31 games, which is an average of 1.00.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I did enjoy the square, the player within the square. We don't have time for every goal for you to say, well, when Zubamendi gets it, there's a hexagon of Forest players and here they are.

[Max Rushden]

And also, it's worth saying, you know.

[Jonathan Wilson]

An accelerating Doku is definitely faster than a static Luke Shaw. What did you make him at all, Barry?

[Lars Ivarsson]

When we did our pre season preview, I. I couldn't decide whether Amarim is this genius who. Who needs more time or is the monorail guy from the the Simpsons promising stuff. He's never going to Deliver. And it seems to be a case now that United aren't good enough to trouble anyone, because, as Wilson said, City were decent yesterday, but they didn't have to do much to swat this United team aside. But they. They also don't seem to be quite bad enough for it to be obvious the manager needs to be relieved of his position. So they're occupying this middle ground of meh where Amarim is allowed to keep bumbling along. He again insisted after the game yesterday that it's not his system that is the problem, and maybe it isn't, but what is a problem is he doesn't have players suited to play the system he wants to play. Bruno Fernandes was all over the place yesterday because he's in this withdrawn role that doesn't suit him. All three of the goals United conceded were very avoidable. We've. We've heard about the first one, the second one, Lenny Yora was weak. Haaland was able to get the wrong side to show to score. And then the third one was because of Harry Maguire giving the ball away, basically.

[Lars Sivertsen]

So, hang on. Sorry. To be fair, Harry Maguire, he's made an interception because he was a. Gave a ball away. I think it was Luke Shaw gives the ball away initially.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Well, it was basically Binder got them in trouble playing out from the back when he probably shouldn't have, but it was avoidable anyway. So there were three avoidable goals which United were not able to avoid and City just didn't have to play particularly well to. To beat them very convincingly.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah. And you want to also circle back to the first goal. Whilst Docu was busy in Jonathan Wilson's sort of square of destiny out wide. You see in the middle, it's. It's Fernandez who's the closest man to Foden, and Foden is just kind of sauntering forward and you can just see it doesn't occur to Bruno Fernandes to track that run into the box at all. Now, there were other players, like Wilson says, they had 11 men behind the ball, but it is a consequence of Bruno being used in that withdrawn central position that sometimes you got to track your man, sometimes you got to track your run into your own box. And it just doesn't seem to come natural to him because that's not what he does. And I don't necessarily want to pick on Bruno Fernandes. I think, like last season, it's interesting, last season, like, he. He had really impressive stats for, like, chances created. He had. He played the most key passes in the league. He had. You know, it was one of those last season could have been one of the great sort of creative seasons for Bruno Fernandes if United had strikers who could shoot straight. But. But they don't. He is still very good at what he does in attack, but he's being used in this role where there are more defensive responsibilities and it doesn't come natural to him. It's not what he spent his career doing. And you can see on that goal, he doesn't follow Foden. Foden scores. And Bruno immediately turns, shouts at the defenders around him, which is like, no, that was you. You were the problem there. And that must drive you mad if you're one of his teammates as well.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Sure.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I mean, I guess it's a point of do. Is it his fault that he's been put in a position?

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Or should you. Should you be good enough at tracking around whoever. Whoever you are? I mean, interestingly, Haaland was defensively very good. Lars. It was a good day for the Haaland is good brigade of which I believe you are part, you know. Yeah.

[Barry Glendenning]

But it's like, I've reached the point now with Erling Haaland, then when he has. If he has a period where he's not playing quite at his best, or he has a game where he misses some chances and people start asking questions and people start making the points that, oh, he's not as good as. Blah, blah, blah. I just can't be arsed to form a counter argument anymore because there's no point. You just wait until the next game. Like, you don't. He's everyone who wants to criticize him and be negative about him for some reason. There's no point arguing against him. You can just shut up and wait for him to prove it on the pitch, because he will. Every single time. He's always going to come back and score a ton of goals. He's always going to make whatever critics he has look stupid. It's just what he does, and it's completely inevitable. He does seem to particularly enjoy playing against Man United. He did say that when he was presented at City, they asked him which game he was looking forward to the most and he did say the Derby. Now, he's played six games in the Premier League against Manchester United for City and scored eight goals. So. So clearly he's. Those are games he quite enjoys. And you're right, he was completely on it. He was all over the place in terms of, like, defending. It wasn't one of Those games, when you look at Haaland's touch maps and there's like four touches in the opposing box and nothing else, like he was putting in a huge shift and yeah, he's very good.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Yeah. Arsenal 3 Nottingham Forest nil. And begins his reign at Forest with a 30 defeat. I mean, this was a tough game for Forest and actually Barry. Arsenal were very good, I thought.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah, they were. It was a very straightforward win for them. I don't think we can lay the blame for this at Angie's Door. He had one training session with, with his new players, but it was very impressive from Arsenal and probably more so because they left several key players were either injured or on the bench and they still got the job done with an absolute minimum of fuss. I suppose the only downside for them was the injury to Martin Odegaard. He did his shoulder again and that can be a real tricky one to get right. He may end up having to have surgery, I'd say, because if he doesn't, it's just going to keep popping out. Noni Mandawake had a great game up against Morato, who was playing out of position at left back. I mean, again, this business of on loan players not being allowed play against their parent clubs, I think is ridiculous. If that rule wasn't in place, Oleksandr Zinchenko could have played at left back and would probably have done a better job. But yeah, it could scarcely have been a more straightforward win for Arsenal and it served to show their strength in depth, the strength in depth they didn't have last season.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Hopefully I'm not the only one who's. That's, that's how I've learned that Oleksandr Zinchenko is on loan at Nottingham Forest. The front three looked really exciting. Wilson of E. Madware, K and and Yoko.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Yeah, they did. And I think Ezza's second half particularly looked really good. There's a little bit of work to be done in that. Eza likes to drift in field more than Martinelli does. I think that's probably actually a positive, but they just got to work out how to use that. So yeah, I mean this was again, it's a little bit like with City, it's a very impressive performance but the, the opponents weren't great. But it is the sort of win that if you're going to win the league, you need to get probably 10 a dozen of in a season and it's something Arsenal have struggled with slightly. They, they, they often seem to make a fuss over what should be Quite regulation wins or. This was just very straightforward. They had loads of options. I think Jucher's, because he's a little bit less refined, miss the point Barney was making in his piece because he's a little bit less refined than some of the others. That's actually good. That's the. The sort of grit that creates the oyster. Creates the pearl, even in the oyster, doesn't create an oyster. The oyster's already there. It's a grit that creates the pearl in the oyster. That, at the minute looks really useful for them. And the fact they could do it while leaving Declan Rice out and give him a bit of a break, I think is hugely positive for them.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Mourinho started ahead of Rice. Arteta said Mourinho is in a high emotional state after scoring four goals for Spain. I want to use that. And I was like, we don't want Arsenal getting too emotional with Wilson on a pod on Monday. Can only end in disaster now. Zubamendi's first goal is a brilliant strike last. But is it allowed to be brilliant if it gets a tiny deflection? Yes, because it's so upsetting that that gets a nick off it, because it does take away from the purity of the brilliance.

[Barry Glendenning]

That had literally never occurred to me. But sure, I mean, of course it's a good strike. It's not, you know, does it really affect it? Do you think so?

[Jonathan Wilson]

Oh, massively. Like, I think if there's a tiny deflection on a strike, you know, it instantly can't be goal of the month.

[Barry Glendenning]

Okay.

[Lars Sivertsen]

I would say completely. I mean, the strike is brilliant. Whatever. The aesthetic quality of the goal is diminished by the deflection.

[Jonathan Wilson]

That's interesting that it never crossed your mind, Lars, but that's okay.

[Barry Glendenning]

No, no. Well, I mean, there are many things that doesn't. My mind is a very unusual place. We've got a lot to get through. I'm not going to start listing the things that haven't crossed my mind. Also, it would be hard to list the things that haven't crossed your mind, because they haven't crossed my mind. So this is philosophically very difficult.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I'm really sorry to have added something that now has crossed your mind before. That was just beautifully peacefully blank.

[Barry Glendenning]

I'm going to be thinking of that all week. I mean, I won't be able to.

[Jonathan Wilson]

No, no. I mean, it's sort of immediately. It's my first thought. That was my first thought of the whole game is this beautiful strike has been ruined by a tiny deflection.

[Lars Sivertsen]

It's like Figo's goal against England in year 2000, which should have been a great goal, but isn't because it gets a little nick.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Agreed. Ange said you only have to look at how we performed last year. They're very disappointed, obviously. I've got to understand that they're human beings and a week ago, their world was very different to what it is now. Whenever a manager is looking tanned and well rested, it means he's out of a job. So I'd rather not be looking so well and pale. I mean, look, we discussed it last week, Barry. There's not a lot to add to this from Ange's perspective, is there?

[Lars Ivarsson]

No. He did stress that he was asked how long it would take for him to mold this Forest team in the way he wants them to play, and he announced it will be Wednesday. So no Fanny at about from Ange. We'll see. We'll see what they're made of on Wednesday. I'm not sure who they're playing, but, yeah, looking forward to it.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I think that is a. Is that a Carabao cup game or European? Yeah. Swansea City away in the League Cup. So, yeah, we'll find out. Anyway, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin at Brentford.

[Max Rushden]

Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here. Barry's here, too.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello.

[Max Rushden]

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. The Remarkable Paper Pro move.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Remarkable. A brand name and an adjective.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to DoS and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Like maybe a football journalist, Barry. Although not like you.

[Lars Ivarsson]

A proper football journalist.

[Max Rushden]

Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper tablet doesn't. It'll never beep or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. If it has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper, think and work like a writer, not a texter. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power. Before the end of extra time, the Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks and if you do need to recharge, you can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Barry, fantastic.

[Max Rushden]

Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Welcome to Part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. I just say thank you to everyone who came to the live show. Amazing that we filled that top tier and we appreciate that you paid your hard earned money and you know, on a date have a tube strike managed to fill the whole place. So that is very kind. Or if you watched on the live stream, thank you as well. We had a lovely time. Brentford 2, Chelsea 2. We have mentioned long throws being back. Brentford are the best in the league at them. That is the seventh goal they've scored from long throws since the start of last season, five more than any other Premier League team. Keith Andrews said, I feel there's a little bit of snobbery in the game around scenarios like that. If the big boys do it, then it seemed to be accepted. And I had previously said that part of the reason for signing Coyote from Fiorentina was he had a long throw. Did they, did they do that, you know, swing his arms back and forth on the medical?

[Lars Ivarsson]

I think it might. The snobbery he speaks of might be more to do with the fact that Stoke kind of cornered the market in long throws under Tony Pulis with Rory Dalap. And there was a snobbery about Stoke. So I don't think there was about the long throws specifically, more Stoke and the way Arson Wenger used to very publicly look down his nose at them and sniff about their robustness.

[Jonathan Wilson]

No, I think there is a snobbery.

[Max Rushden]

I think, you know, being a Cambridge.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Fan, right, it's all part of long ball football, right? I mean, I know it's a separate thing, but like the sort of get the ball in the mixer, there was definitely a snobbery about that within the game. And it seems, you know, it's score a goal however way you can, but, you know, there are the sort of purists who are like this, you know, we want to play the beautiful game.

[Barry Glendenning]

I think there's snobbery about hoofball in open play that I'll get along with if teams just whack it forward all the time to get it in the mixer. People probably don't love that, but I get the sense that like the set piece, the analysts. The set piece. The set piece guy at Arsenalist guy's on mural now. I mean it doesn't get trendier than that. If you get an Arsenal mural, you've cracked it culturally. And I would, I get the Tony Pier list, Stoke thing, but I would take issue then with the word at the moment because Tony Pulis left Stoke in 2013. This is a very long time ago. I think Keith Andrews is wrong. I think set pieces and long throws phenomenally trendy right now. They're all the rage. They'll be doing them in the clubs.

[Jonathan Wilson]

All over Dalston, the BBC. Long throws that led to goals have increased from 0.03% in 202021 to 0.338% in 2425, which is a bit of a leap, isn't it? They harder to defend than corners, Wils?

[Lars Sivertsen]

I think they're different because the trajectory is slower and loopier. So I think the problem with them is that your corners tend to be whipped in. So if you get a head on it, it's going to clear the box. Even if it's glances off your head, it's going to clear the box on the far side. Whereas a loopy throw, it's quite hard to get the power to clear the box or can be. I'm sure that people can adapt to it. It's just trendy though it may be, it has not been trendy for long enough for defending against it to become of the level it is for defending corners. So yeah, I think that ball just sort of floating down in the six yard area in a crowded box when sort of grappling is now, although they're supposed to be cracking down on it, is way more pronounced than it was even 10 years ago. In the old days, keepers could just sort of clear people out of the way and claim that they can't really do that now because people are much more prepared to sort of battle and fight for it. So yeah, I think it's the fact that the lack of pace on the ball makes it hard to get it out of the box.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Although the Lapp had a very sort of flat trajectory. So that was hard to defend from that. And I guess it's hard to train, it's hard to practice defending them unless you have someone who has one. Unless you have to bring in Steve Bakley or someone into training.

[Lars Sivertsen]

You could. Presumably it's. It's less complicated than a bowling machine, right? You, you've got Merlin which replicates various spin bowlers. You can surely replicate Coyote or Sharda. I mean it seemed to me they had quite different trajectories. I think. So Coyotes was. Hang on, I can't which way round it was. One of them was flatter than the other.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Yeah. This was a SHA one, wasn't it?

[Lars Ivarsson]

It was a shadow one they scored with. Yeah, yeah.

[Lars Sivertsen]

SHA1. That led to the goal. Yeah. And it led to that very good chance. It almost went straight in 10, 15 minutes before that. Which obviously wouldn't be a goal. I mean it wasn't entirely clear whether somebody at the near post had just got a slight touch and then Sanchez has to sort of bat it away.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Yeah, Wilson. I wonder if there was a. If you knew the history of. I mean, sort of pre Andy Legg, who is a decade older than Dave Chaloner. So for me, sort of Andy Legge is the originator. But I just wonder if there was a Hungarian.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Well, even better than that, there was a Sunderland player.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Okay. Of course.

[Lars Sivertsen]

So in the 1890s, Sunderland's captain, I think probably the. The greatest British footballer of all time, although he never gets the credit. A bloke called Huey Wilson. And he pioneered long throws. But in those days he was so good at taking long throws, they changed the law and how you had to take them. He would just lob it one handed.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Oh, okay.

[Lars Sivertsen]

So he would lob it one hand of inside his own half into the opposition box. And they said, all right, maybe we're going to make you have to have two hands on the ball. So until.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Did that end his career? Did that end his career?

[Lars Sivertsen]

No, because he was an excellent centre half. He was a really, really good player. Until Coyote forces a law change, I don't think you can say Coyote is fit to lace Hughie Wilson's boots.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Well, interestingly, Rory Delap used to throw one handed. So he would hold the ball with one hand and just rest the other on it. But all the power was generated by one hand. So it was ostensibly a one handed throw.

[Jonathan Wilson]

In the Soccer Am Glorias, we made some special towels for Roy Delap to dry the ball and they were banned. They were banned by the Premier League. I mean, there was a football match as well as this long throw, which was quite an interesting game, I thought. Lars, I don't know if it. Do you think a draw was a fair result?

[Barry Glendenning]

Chelsea had more possession and kind of had a number of shots, but it didn't feel like they had like massive chances in this Game. I thought this was really like positive for Brentford. Who haven't. I haven't always been super impressed with all the. In every game they've played so far this season. I thought this was. They looked more like the. The Brentford of old hair. They were. They were solid and I guess Chelsea had to rotate a little bit with their squad and make some selection choices that we maybe weren't expecting with people having traveled from international duty and this sort of thing. And they looked like they were not quite at it. But yeah, it's a bit of a. Sorry, that was. That was a bit of crap answer. But I didn't.

[Max Rushden]

No, that's all right.

[Jonathan Wilson]

No, it's just it.

[Barry Glendenning]

I didn't have a very strong take on this game. If you want to get Wilson, maybe.

[Jonathan Wilson]

It hadn't crossed your mind. I don't know. But one of many things that haven't crossed my mind. I mean it is worth saying Jordan Henderson's. That's one of those passes he played that he. That he can't do. So could never play for England but it was a lovely ball for Charda and actually both. Both the Chelsea finishes like the finish from Palmer is so beautiful and Caicedos was a great strike and it didn't take a nick off anyone. So it does qualify for goal of the month. West ham Nil Spurs 3. This is very one sided. I mean Thomas Frank, we've sort of talked about his set piece legacy already. But suddenly Wilson spurs are very dangerous from corners.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Yes. And this is something Jackpot Brook pointed out. He was out the game. He was obviously in the press conference when it happened. But Graham Potter saying, I thought we defended the first nine corners quite well. He's very much. In 1976, nobody died.

[Jonathan Wilson]

That is funny. Yeah.

[Max Rushden]

I mean I thought they were very.

[Jonathan Wilson]

You talked about grappling actually, you know that disallowed Gold Wilson from Romero, which obviously I'm biased. But you're just going, this is this law. And this sort of clampdown on vows in the box is so ridiculous because there were just so many of them. I don't think it's easy. I don't know what it is, but it feels like it's got worse since the clampdown at the start of the season.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Well, yeah, the problem is that its application is always going to be arbitrary. So you had in the Sunderland Brentford game before the international break, Brentford given a penalty for what I think probably was a foul from a corner. But then it was almost like Anthony Taylor felt better even that up because there's loads of grappling going on to Sutherland got a slightly softer one, which again was probably a foul, but you get away with that nine times out of 10. And here the Romero one was by no means the worst example of it. I mean, spurs should have had a penalty for something was way worse than that a few minutes later. So I guess to an extent, all laws are applied slightly arbitrarily. And, you know, you don't say, just because we don't catch all murderers doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a law against killing. But this feels particularly arbitrary and there is going to be an example where it really has a huge impact on a big game and everybody's going to get very upset and worked up about it, but I'm not really sure what the answer is.

[Jonathan Wilson]

No. But also, you know, pushing in the box is more important than murder, so we should take it more seriously.

[Lars Ivarsson]

The shove in question was originally by a West Ham player, Fernandez, and it sort of caused this domino effect which led to Kyle Walker Peters falling over. So, yeah, it shouldn't have been ruled out. I mean, it was a very easy win for Spurs. West Ham were comically bad. The opening goal, the. The Papisar header, he was completely unmarked, didn't have to jump, just did that, just stood there. It hit his head. It was. It was a bit like the leads, the own goal, that lead scored. He just stood there, the ball hit his head and went in. Thomas Suchek then getting sent off for that, that foul on Palino Th totally deserved red, I thought. And there was no way back for West Ham after that. They've now conceded 11 in four games and they're a mess. Jared Bones, the only bright spark you can see there. We all thought Lucas Keta would be a man reborn after having that gambling charge. Having been acquitted or found, not proven, he's not playing well at all. And I was reading Jacob Steinberg's match report and you could. You could just feel the rage. He's very, you know, you. You could tell it was written by a West Ham fan. He was. Yes. He's so angry.

[Barry Glendenning]

And the thing about West Ham and Potter that kind of would worry me for them is the nature of the goals they're conceding. Right. So for the season opening game, they lost 30 to Sunderland. Two goals from crosses into the box. The 51 defeat to Chelsea. There are three corners and one cross and here you've got one corner and one ball over the top. So in those three defeats, they've conceded 11 goals. Eight of them have been either just from set pieces or crosses put into the box. Now the Premier League is a really difficult league now. The level is super high. Everyone's bought like super good and expensive players. I get that you can have a talent deficit in some games and you can just get beat. But if you're West Ham you cannot be conceding like eight goals from just balls flung into the box in three games. Like that should be possible to avoid. Like that feels like something you should be doing. And I'm kind of fascinated on the counter to that how Thomas Frank have just immediately turned spurs into the anti ange. Like it's completely opposite. Like we talked about how Amarim seems to be taking ages to put any kind of imprint on the United team. Like spurs are not. This was not an amazing spurs performance. I didn't think like they're not passing the ball especially well. They're kind of relying on Lucas Bergwald to get them up the field by. By running past people. And the midfield isn't moving the ball forwards I think in a very impressive way at all. But they're really solid defensively and they're really dangerous from these set pieces and that will get you a lot of points in the Premier League. And it's just funny how that is just a complete reversal of what they were underarned. And it's happened so quickly.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Managers. With more than 150 Premier League games, Graham Potter has the sixth lowest win percentage which isn't very good, is it? Burnley nil.

[Max Rushden]

Liverpool won then Liverpool.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Top of the league. 4 wins from 4. AC spinner. Has anyone ever looked sadder and as mournful as Hannibal did after conceding that last minute penalty, staring into the abyss vibes. I mean I don't like the law, right. And people know that. And I think a penalty is too big a crime. But even I was like, because I heard about it before I saw it, I was like I bet I'm gonna hate it. And I was like, oh actually I think that probably that probably is guys. It probably is. And it feels like. What do you think it is, Wilson? Just lack of concentration. I mean it's just they've defended so well and so stoically for so long and it would be such a massive point for Burnley. And it wasn't just his face. It was everybody. It was every Burnley player was basically Sammy Cafor at that moment.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Yeah, I mean the. It's not just that he's stupidly sort of half turned his back and stuck his arm out. It's even where his feet are. You know, if you're in that kind of. I know there's an optimum distance you should be from a player if you're about to cross the ball. But if he'd taken one largest step forward, he wouldn't have been in the box. And would that position have been so much worse? I think it is just fatigue leading to a lapse of concentration. If you're looking at this from a Liverpool positive perspective, the fact that their four games in the league so far have been won with goals in the 88th minute, the 95th minute, the 82nd minute and then the 94th minute, you know, maybe that is just a. They eventually wear opponents down rather than being incredibly lucky repeatedly. And I think there's probably, yeah, an element of both. But, yeah, it can only be be fatigued. And Burnley played really well. You know, they. That's pretty much as good as I think you can hope for from a promoted side against the champions. They. They might even have nicked it. Yeah, I mean, they maybe were lucky to have 11 men on the pitch.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Well, they didn't.

[Barry Glendenning]

Something that hasn't passed Wilson's mind.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Yeah, I saw it with the sound off at sea. They were, of course, down at 10 men.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Absolutely no, I'd be very disappointed if that edit is made.

[Barry Glendenning]

But that can look like. If you're watching it without the sound, it can look like the exact same thing because you're just sitting in the low block anyway. Like, you can take away one of the dudes and it will look like the exact same game.

[Jonathan Wilson]

That is very thoughtful podcasting of you, Lars, to come to Wilson's defence just then.

[Barry Glendenning]

I'm a thoughtful podcaster.

[Lars Ivarsson]

I mean, if you watch it with the sound down, you still see the ref produce this quite conspicuous red rectangle from his pocket and Shaw Chukachoku.

[Lars Sivertsen]

I was probably getting my roast beef dinner at the time.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I say, Barry, that's less generous podcasting, but it's what we all wanted from you in that situation. Now, the question, Barry, is, you know, last season the question for so long was, has Liverpool. Have Liverpool played anyone good? It's this season's question. Have Liverpool been any good? Does it matter? Like, I can't work out how good they've been. Salah doesn't look like he's at it quite yet. They. This was different. They defensively didn't have a whole lot to do, I guess. And there have been questions about the defence in the last few games, but Here they, they did struggle to break Bernie down.

[Lars Ivarsson]

They did struggle and they got away with this one. I think we're saying Salah isn't on it, but he still scored two goals, I think, hasn't he? And Liverpool are winning these games without playing particularly well. They beat Arsenal without playing particularly well and Arsenal are a good side. So I wouldn't be overly concerned yet. But I mean, yeah, they definitely got away with this one. They were, they were lucky in the end. I loved. In his postmatch interview, Scott Parker said we had to dig and go to places that not many human beings go.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I was like, all right, Scott, why are you In a bit. He also said, he also said, you know, praising the team. He said they, they put their body where it needed to go. And I was thinking, well, for almost all the game they did that, but for one specific moment they really didn't, did they do.

[Barry Glendenning]

You know, I think that's Scott Parker really embracing life in the north. Like he's, he's going the legacy of the min industry and stuff like this. Like he's really getting, getting into that. I would say about Liverpool that, you know, because of the way reporting around transfer works and the way things are now, we just always say, oh, they spent loads of money. They've had a great window. Like we always see this on social media, like transfer journalists going, great window for this club. They bought so many players. But the reality, even if you bring in like a lot of players, that does create a need for some time for things to bed in and some time for things to adjust. Right? You've got, you've got two new full backs and in the case of, I mean today, this game. Szaberszlai, not a fullback, playing at fullback. You've got Wirt who's going to find his feet in the league, get used to his teammates. You've got a new striker who had to come off in this game. There's a lot of things that are changed about this Liverpool team. They are a very different team than they are last year. And it's only logical that it'll take a little while in training and playing games for these guys to work each other out and to find the patterns and sort of get used to each other. So the fact that they can have these slightly iffy performances while this is happening and still have four wins out of four, I take that as a very positive thing and I'm expecting it to kind of gradually click better as the season goes on.

[Jonathan Wilson]

All right, that'll do for part Two part three. Five games to go. We'll rattle through all of them.

[Max Rushden]

Hi, POD fans of America. Max here. Barry's here too.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello.

[Max Rushden]

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to.

[Jonathan Wilson]

This show, you'll have heard us talk.

[Max Rushden]

Before about the remarkable Paper Pro. We already know that Remote Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category. Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology. But there's something new and exciting. The Remarkable Paper Pro Move.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Remarkable.

[Lars Ivarsson]

A brand name and an adjective.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet. It holds all your notes to do's and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket. Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office. Like maybe a football journalist.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Barry. Although not like you.

[Lars Ivarsson]

A proper football journalist.

[Max Rushden]

Exactly. Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out. This paper tablet doesn't. It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you. It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper. Think and work like a writer, not a textbook. And the battery performance is amazing. No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time. The Remarkable Paper Pro move can keep going for up to two weeks. And if you do need to recharge, you can go from 0 to 90% in less than 45 minutes.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Barry, fantastic.

[Max Rushden]

Why not give it a go for nothing? You can try Remarkable Paper Pro move for 100 days for free. If it's not what you're looking for, get your Money back. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

[Jonathan Wilson]

So Bournemouth get another win. Three wins in a row for them. They beat Brighton 2 1, their best ever start to a Premier League season. Alex Scott's got a beautiful goal in this. You're a fan of. You've been a fan of his for a while, Barry. Am I making that up?

[Lars Ivarsson]

I think you are. I think this is the second time you've said this and I'm. I'm not. I mean, he's. He's fine player, but I'm. I'm not. I haven't been banging the drum for Alex Scott. I'm more of who's the midfielder I'm such a fan of. I've forgotten his name. He's injured at the moment he was playing right back for them last season most of the time.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Oh, yes. Cook. Lewis Cook.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah, Lewis Cook.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I know you're a Lewis. I know you're a big Lewis Cook fan. Well, maybe I've transferred it to Alex. Well, maybe Valik Scott becomes, you know, the man who lifts the World cup for England in 2030. You can, you can say, because I've said it, I've been talking about him for so, so long. Look, this game, I guess Lars could have gone either way. But you know, this is a brilliant start for Bournemouth especially given, you know, they didn't have a great window in terms of losing lots of players.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah. Was this the sort of battle between the two sort of foremost likable and inoffensive teams that we all think are very good and very nice and are run very well and it's hard to get like too emotional about them in either direct direction. I thought it was interesting to see Bournemouth and they did, in fairness, I should say they did a really good analysis on this on Match of the Day, how direct Bournemouth were and how happy they were to play like quite long passes. And it's an interesting thing about Irola. I remember I checked this up, the piece Sid wrote about him when they hired him. There's a great quote from Irola where he says, I prefer too much chaos to too much organization. One of the ways that manifests, I think is of course they set pressing traps and they're very good at catching teams. But they're also quite direct when they win the ball. And last season actually only Everton attempted more passes that were over 30 yards. Only Everton attempted more long passes in the league than Bournemouth, which might surprise some people because like no one would accuse them of being a hoofball team and they're not. But they're happy to be quite direct to follow that up. And I think you saw certainly from the highlights it looked like that was something that kind of did brighten a little bit in this game.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Yeah. And also any ball over 30 yards from Everton was probably not a pass last year, was it? Let's face was just a kick, wasn't it? Well, I was thinking about this Wilson, about the signing of Donnarummer and maybe overthinking it, which is a good thing to do with a man City signing about the fact that football, it goes in cycles and perhaps it is getting more direct. Talk about Bournemouth being more direct. Thomas Frank changing Tottenham, that actually now maybe City won't play out from the back or you just need a keeper we're talking about long throws. Who's a big oaf who can just, you know, punch stuff and kick stuff. Actually, that might be more important in what football is becoming in this, you know, the return of the number nine as well. All these kind of things.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Yeah, I don't. I don't like the word cyclical for tactics because that implies that it's a predictable cycle. Yeah, winter, spring, summer, autumn is a cycle. Football repurposing old tactics, I think, is slightly different to that. Not least because every time you get an old tactic reapplied, you're reapplying it with a knowledge of everything that's gone since. So it is shaped by that. So I don't think it is cyclical, and I think it leads to sort of a sense of it being inevitable, which is not quite true. The fundamental point about football becoming more direct, I think is true. Last makes the point about these being nice, inoffensive sides. I think that is how most people view them. But then Antoine Semenya afterwards was saying, oh, Iveola said, we got to get stuck in a bit more at half time. There's eight bookings in that game. Just showing a D watch card sometimes. Do you have any bookings to wear in the Manchester Derby?

[Lars Ivarsson]

Well, there was none from an U. As Roy Keane made a great show of pointing out.

[Lars Sivertsen]

There's none for City. Big derby with not a single booking. I mean, it's that sort of. I don't think bookings are a great thing. I'm not saying that the greatest game of all time was that Portugal, Netherlands game with 16 yellow cards wasn't far.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Off being the greatest game of all time.

[Lars Sivertsen]

But it did suggest sort of the tepidness of Manchester Derby. And this was a game where the wire challenges flying in. It feels this sort of. We've had 15, 20 years of control of pep ball, and in this sort of post pep ball world we appear to be moving into football, is becoming a little bit more direct, is becoming a bit more aggressive again, which is good in some ways and bad in others. But it does seem to be what's happening. And I think it's interesting that Iola, who's come from that Spanish tradition, okay, not the Barcelona tradition, that he is such an early adopter and is so ready to go more direct and apparently quite happy to have his side be a lot more aggressive.

[Lars Ivarsson]

I do feel compelled to mention Fabian Herzler's sideline attire because he looked like something out of an autumn catalog and should have had an Attractive blonde woman and a couple of red setters by.

[Jonathan Wilson]

His side and just leaves just there. Just someone from the Brighton stuff has to come out and just lay some autumnal coloured leaves just down there for him to waltz through. Newcastle 1, Wolves nil. David says how much better to Newcastle look up front. Now they have seemingly signed going by the sound of his name. A dark wizard. I'm not sure that much better. But you know Nicolas Voltimara scored his first goal. You've been saying he's not a really.

[Max Rushden]

He's not really a score big headers.

[Jonathan Wilson]

At the back post kind of guy, but he did quite a good impression of that. Or does he do that as well as being a very cute player?

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean he is very tall and if you have a very tall man who is a vaguely competent footballer and you put a bunch of crosses into the box, he's going to stick his head on some of them. I don't have the numbers to hand next time Wilson is talking I can look them up. But he didn't score a lot of headers last season. But I. But it did occur to me earlier like I remember watching Aston Villa vs Newcastle and I remember in that game Newcastle just completely nullified Villas midfield. They couldn't open them up a lot but they got into a lot of good crossing positions. But every time they want to put a cross into the box it was like Gordon in there. So it was completely pointless. So whereas now you have. You have a man who's about 3 meters high tall in there and that will immediately give you that option at least. But I think it was also. You also just saw a lot of nice touches from him in this box. My take on Voltimar, as you'll have heard, is that I just think the transfer fee is super high for a guy who hasn't done that much yet. But he does have a lot of fun ingredients. I think one of my favorite types of footballer in the world is the slight lanky player with a very good first touch. It's just aesthetically very pleasing. It's possibly because I'm not fully over my sort of footballing man crush on Dimitar Berbatov yet. It's giving me some of that sort of sensation.

[Jonathan Wilson]

So.

[Barry Glendenning]

But I love seeing a tall man who can do these little nifty layoffs and things. It's great. And I just think also you can draw too many conclusions from this. Maybe. But I think it's so important for a forward who comes to a new league with a big price tag. To get the first goal early and to get a little bit of positive momentum. I think that side of it really really matters.

[Max Rushden]

High fee you're saying.

[Jonathan Wilson]

He has a high ceiling and he needs a high ceiling of course, doesn't he? 16 goals in all competitions last season. One header. They're the statistics. Wolves have naught points which is not many points. They did dominate for the first 25 seconds of this game and actually they weren't terrible in this game. But on zero point watch it's just them and Sheffield United in the top seven divisions of English football. I checked and we'll get to Sheffield United in a second. Wolves play all the promoted sides between now and the end of October. Barry feels important.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah, well you need to get points on the board. I still think they don't look as bad as say West Ham. Even though West Ham have a win under the belt. But they do need to start getting results. I think they've Leeds at home next. That's a big, big game. This was a very straightforward win for Newcastle. And I think Wolves maybe were lucky not to have a man sent off. Mascara for clambering all over Harvey Barnes. And he was the last man. And was it in the penalty area just outside? I'm not sure. But that could have been a penalty or a red card or both. So they got away with one there and then after the game the manager Victor Pereira was complaining about the refs haste in booking his players. They all saying they were all booked for their first fouls or their first challenges. So. But I think they were lucky not to lose a man. So they were showing some leniency there. They haven't. Okay. They were slaughtered by Man City. But apart from that I don't remember them being particularly bad. So it was quite interesting. On match of the Day Shay Givens said he decided they'd be fine and then second guessed himself and said have I gone too early there? What do you think Chopper said? When you present this show you're not allowed an opinion. Trust me.

[Jonathan Wilson]

It was a very good line, wasn't it? Newcastle play Barcelona at St James park on Thursday night. Which will be a nice night for them. A bad night for the pod. But we'll reflect on it. Next Monday Fulham beat leads one nil. That own goal from Gabriel Goodmanson. I think you're a bit harsh on Pap sa Earlier in the pod Barry when he said he just stood there. But Gabriel Goodmanson did just stand there. I thought maybe Joe Roden ducked out the way and that is that's me giving him a chance for this extraordinary header and injury to him.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah, well it looked like two different Leeds players missed the header and Goodman said just genuinely wasn't expecting the ball to come anywhere near him. It did and unfortunately it cannoned off his head into the back of the net and that's. He looked very disconsolate after. It's. It's I suppose a competition. Who looked most sad this weekend, him or Hannibal? I've given it to Hannibal but yeah, it was a freakish goal but I think Fulham probably deserved to win on the balance of play. Leeds, we said before the season they look very light up front and that is proven to be the case. It's difficult to see where their goals are going to come from.

[Jonathan Wilson]

We have said that before about a team for which Dominic Calvert Lewin is spearheading the attack, doesn't he? He had a couple of chances. I thought Kevin looked quite exciting for.

[Barry Glendenning]

Fulham and I'm thinking Dominic Calvert Lewin is just maybe not the solution. He's not a bad footballer but he has. I looked this up now. He has underperformed his xg in 7 out of 8 seasons as a first team forward player and the last 2 seasons have been particularly bad. Obviously being the striker for Everton under Sean Dyche was not the easiest gig in showbiz. But last season he scored three goals off an XG of 6.7 and the season before that he scored seven off an XG of 12.9. So you can simplify that into saying that over the last two seasons he scored about half half the goals you'd expect from the chances that have fallen to him that he's worked and that seems like not very good. And if you're leads and you're trying to stay up, that's not ideal.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Everton nil. Villa nil. I mean we should be talking about an Everton victory here. They had 20 attempts. The stat said two on target, which is weird because Martinez made at least three very good saves. Did some good badge patting. Pointing at the ground doesn't really work if you're playing away from home, but Villa are very lucky he's there. Villa, the only side in the top three six divisions to Knox, scored a goal. Worst start to a Premier league season since 97, 98. I didn't see that coming.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Wilson, I didn't think they'd be great this season, but I didn't think it'd be anything like this about it. But they just seem to got themselves in a funk in that defeated Old Trafford on the final day last season which cost them a Champions League place. And then they sort of the whole everything around the club, which I don't know if it's fans and if it's coming from the club is oh, psr. Is not fair. We're not allowed to spend all the money we've got. Look at the evil established clubs who generate far more revenue than us and can spend more money as a result. They've got a wages to turnover ratio of 92%. That's not sustainable. They've got to reduce it. I think half a dozen of their recent signings have not been particularly effective. Although Village Jean was very effective on whichever day it was he scored the hat trick. When was that? Saturday. Having moved to Ipswich.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Friday night.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Friday night, yeah. But the squad's better than the way they're playing. They just seem to have to talk themselves into a slump.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Palace nil. Sunderland nil. First away point baz for Sunderland. Your keeper Robin Roofs was very good but seven points from the first four games. You've got to be happy with that.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Absolutely delighted. I was hoping to go to this game actually but my ticket fell through and then when I saw it was a nil nil draw. And again on match of the Day, Leeds Fulham was third last and the commentators spent most of it talking about how terrible the game was. I'm going, how bad must the other Everton Villa and Sunderland palace have been? But the highlights at least were, were okay. I think Sunderland were quite lucky. Their goalkeeper was man of the match. But yeah, point away at palace is a very good point.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Yeah. Klassner wanted a penalty. Uche got a shot away. This is of unwritten law that if you get a shot away you don't get a free kick. Because if he just touched that and then got kicked he would get a penalty.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah. I think I wouldn't have had any complaints if a penalty had been given for that.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Fair enough.

[Lars Ivarsson]

But it wasn't.

[Jonathan Wilson]

It wasn't. Elsewhere Russell Martin. Still no win in the league for Rangers. They lost two nil at home to Hearts. Lots and lots of boos. This seems untenable, Barry.

[Lars Ivarsson]

It does, yeah. I said before the season started I thought Harts might split Rangers and Celtic this season because of the Tony Bloom involvement. But I hadn't factored in how terrible Rangers would be. And Russell Martin wasn't a popular appointment. It's not going well for him and he doesn't do himself any favors with his post match interviews. And it's difficult to see how long more he can last. He's not the only problem there. Let's just say, sure, yeah.

[Jonathan Wilson]

I mean, it would cost a lot as well. I mean, to sack someone this early into a contract. Sheffield United have sacked Ruben Sellers. They've lost all six of their opening games of the season. Producer Joel says put your sandwiches away as Chris Wilder could come back. Could he? I don't know. But because, you know, George and Ali from not the top 20, talk very highly of Sellers Wilson and what he did, especially at Reading and in very difficult circumstances. But this has not worked.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Yeah, I mean, kept his dignity taking Southampton down in an impossible situation. Did well at Reading in a very, very difficult situation. Kept Hull up in not easy conditions. So you sort of thought, yeah, he deserves a crack at a more positive job. It's just been a disaster. You could see that opening game when they lost 41 at Bristol City and they played alright for 20 minutes in that game and a lot of the talk afterwards. Oh, you know, that first 20 minutes they pressed really well. Yeah, but they're massively open. Bristol City picked them off over and over again. And then the thing that was baffling that game was he did the sort of Phil Brown style lecture on the pitch at the end of that game. And you think, I don't think that's a good idea at any point, you know that you shouldn't be slagging your players off in public. You do it in the dressing room. You're really risking your sort of the bond you need with the players, the sense that you've got their back. If you're. You're criticizing him very publicly. To do that in your very first game just seemed extraordinary. And it's got worse since. And the game against Ipswich, it was not dissimilar. The first 15, 20 minutes they were all right and then as soon as they concede, they buckle, they get done on the break, over and over again. I mean, Chris Wilder leaving after taking Shefton out to third in the league and losing a playoff final, whether ahead till the 70, whatever minute, 78th minute. Was that purely football reasons? I don't know. But if it were just for football reasons, that would seem extraordinarily harsh.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

[Lars Ivarsson]

But haven't Sheffield United embrace this new recruitment strategy that involves AI? And I heard it being discussed on some BBC show and it didn't sound particularly Chris Wilder friendly. I mean, he has a reputation as a bit of a dinosaur that I don't think he deserves, but I think they were Very much wanted to go in a new direction in terms of recruitment, and it clearly hasn't worked out.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Because they've just signed robots. AI Robots.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Go. Does not compute. Alex Wright, stiff at Woolweekly. I was delighted to hear your interview with the excellent Zoran Mamdani this week. I know we all suspected Barry to be Infantino's sleeper agent. Good to have our suspicions validated, he says. Me and my dad have been listening to Football Weekly right from the start. Since 06, when my dad used to download the episodes onto my ipod shuffle, I've been listening to Barry for more than half my life. I've decided to embark on a political career simply with the aim of becoming Sports Minister. So you'll invite me onto Football Weekly as a local councillor? I've sat through many, many meetings in pursuit of this goal. For me to now only realize that all I needed to do was run to be the Mayor of New York. That's why I'm delighted to announce my campaign to be the next independent Mayor of New York. I look forward to the invitation to discuss the critical issues to New Yorkians. All the best. See you when I'm sports minister. Councillor Alex Burnett Penistone East Councillor Weary. Sheffield Wednesday fan. Yeah, well, listen, we extended the invite, of course, to all those who are actually running for Mayor of New York. But, yeah, people seem to like that slightly unexpected chat we had. And by all accounts, Barry, quite a lot of people at the Guardian been trying to interview this man. You didn't have a clue who he was. They still tipped up on this. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Lars.

[Barry Glendenning]

Thank you, Max.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Thank you, Barry.

[Lars Ivarsson]

Thank you.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Thank you, Wilson.

[Lars Sivertsen]

Cheers. Thank you.

[Jonathan Wilson]

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. Champions League is back, so we'll see you one way.

[Max Rushden]

This is the Guardian.