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Football Weekly
Nottingham Forest’s return to Europe and a Premier League preview: Football Weekly Extra
00:50:05
Max Rushden, Barry Glendenning, Robyn Cowen and Sam Dalling discuss Forest’s first European game in 30 years, plus the Carabao Cup providing a lack of shocks with the Premier League quartet taking it quite seriously
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- [00:00]
Sam
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
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- [00:15]
Robin Cowan
Greasy pizza?
- [00:16]
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- [00:50]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. A rare chance to do some Europa League as a few games migrated to Wednesday night and just search for a first win as Forest manager continues to. But a two all draw in Betis isn't a bad way to start a campaign. Two goals for Igor Jesus. Has Ange jettisoned New Zealand's finest already? Celtic draw one all in Belgrade. If you can guess both scorers in this game, give yourself a biscuit in the Carabao. Straightforward wins for the Premier League sides. Find out how many of Emile Heske's sons came on for Manchester City in their win at Huddersfield. There's a Premier League preview. Unbeaten lead as Liverpool go to the only other side yet to suffer a defeat in Crystal palace. While Newcastle Arsenal is perhaps the pick of the games. And we'll ask if a 64 team World cup is as terrible idea as it sounds. Catch up on the start of the WSL season. Answer your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Week. Cleave on the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Hello.
- [01:41]
Barry Glendenning
Hi Max.
- [01:42]
Max Rushden
Welcome. Robin Cowan.
- [01:43]
Robin Cowan
Good morning, Max.
- [01:44]
Max Rushden
And good morning, Sam Dalling.
- [01:45]
Sam
Good morning, Max.
- [01:47]
Max Rushden
Let's start with the Europa League because we don't get to do it that often. And Nottingham Forest, but back in Europe for the first time in a long time. Sam, you watched their draw away at Betis in the end. Not a bad result even if a late equalizer means Ange is still looking for his first win. But you'd probably take a point, wouldn't you?
- [02:05]
Sam
Yeah, it sounds cliched. Naturally they'd have taken a point before the game, but I think they were pretty disappointed. You could see that at the end. They were absolutely brilliant in that first half. They really were. Yeah, I know they went behind quite early and there was a bit of talk beforehand about Chris Wood not playing. You think, oh, is it not a game for him given what he's done. But Igor Jesus scored a couple of goals and what does he cost? 10 million quid from Botafago. He scored two versus Swansea last week two last night. I think he's putting Chris Wood under pressure. They probably should wait. They should have scored a third in that first half, right? Hudson, Odoi and Jesus managed to miss from about a yard out between them. I'm not sure who we blame there. Probably both of them. They share it. And I think second half Betis came back into it and that's what quality sides like that do. I think Forest had 30 touches in Betis box in the first half and only four in the second. But Forest under Ange, like, they're already. I know they haven't won, so it sounds a bit weird. And they've also surrendered Leeds three times. But they're starting to look like the Forest that a lot of the fans wanted them to be. So it's the whole. The king is dead, Long live the king. And last year under Nuno, there was this idea that they could have been a little bit more expansive with their players. And actually they've started having more possession in the games. It wasn't as frantic, as open as Ange at Tottenham, but they just. You had like the center back stepping up and that would never have happened under Nuno, I tell you, that midfield of Sangare, Luiz and Elliot Anderson, like, it'll never not make me sad seeing how good Elliot Anderson is becoming. Like he really. It's not unrealistic to say he could start at a World cup for England. And there was a run, he went on in the box like he's. It's very simple. He's not flashy, but he just stepped inside two players like jinxed inside a couple of players and almost set up Jesus for a hattick.
- [03:59]
Barry Glendenning
And.
- [03:59]
Sam
And he is just. He ran the game for that first half and they fell away in the second half, which would be disappointing, but I mean, as I said at the start, they would have taken it. And as you said, there's not much chance to watch Europa League at the. Because it's a Thursday, I don't watch much of it. And it's like watching like Premier League years from 2010-20, 20, 25, these couple of games, because you look at the lineups like, oh, Adrian's on the bench, Pablo Fournels is involved. Yeah, you've got Anthony. And then in the other game we'll talk about later, you look at, oh, Pellegrini. Well, Pellegrini's the manager over at Betis. And then the other game, you're going, well, Arnautovic, Iheanacho, Brendan Rodgers. So like, it was A lovely little nostalgia throwback. And I know that that wasn't the question directly asked, but hopefully I've answered it in some way.
- [04:40]
Max Rushden
No, no, no, absolutely. I mean, it's just interesting. Barry's think there are probably a lot of people presuming that an will fail at Forest. I don't know if that's. I don't know if I'm speaking for everybody, but. Because it didn't really work at Tottenham, but they did win a trophy. People, all people are waiting for him to fail and they haven't won yet. So it is interesting to hear that they are. You know, Forest are changing quite quickly.
- [05:01]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. And he said they would after his first game, that defeat at the hands of Arsenal. He said they'd have changed before their next game, which was the following Wednesday, I think. I thought they were very impressive last night, the way they're getting players forward in a way Forest didn't really do under Nuno. Their first goal I thought was wonderful. Hudson, Odoi, Zinchenko, Anderson, Douglas Louise and Morgan Gibbs White were all involved in getting the ball forward and cross the field at speed. Morgan Gibbs White sending a lovely low delivery into between two defenders to Igor Jesus, who. Who couldn't miss. I was quite impressed with him. I thought they did enough to win it. A draw was probably fair, but there do look a completely different proposition to peak Forest under. Under Nuno. I thought he. Nuno was playing more attacking football this at the start of this season before he got fired. But the. The Forest of last season, this is a completely different ball game. They're trying to play and I would say the early signs are good. They are going to concede goals so that. That is going to be an issue. But if they score more than they let in, then that would be okay. Yeah.
- [06:24]
Max Rushden
Which they haven't managed to do yet. But you know. No, you know, from. From small acorns. From very small acorns. The interesting thing is Sam alluded to Robin is Chris Wood, isn't it? Because I don't know if he. Unless he wasn't fully fit. He was on the bench and Igor Jesus started and then Arnaud Callimoendo, another striker that they signed from Rennes came on for Jesus and you sort of think the lot of a footballer to be, you know, one of the best strikers in the Premier League last season to now. And who knows, it might start the weekend. So this conversation might be moot. But at the moment, seemingly definitely not first choice under Ange and perhaps not even second.
- [06:59]
Robin Cowan
Well, that seems to be the problem. That's basically why Nuno isn't there anymore, is that he was given a load of players that he didn't really want. Yeah, no, it's. It's tough for Chris Wood, obviously, because he's had such an incredible record, but that record was under Nuno, so I wonder if he's just going to sit.
- [07:15]
Max Rushden
There, wait, West Ham in January, West Ham in January.
- [07:18]
Robin Cowan
See where Nuno pops up next and he'll do it. You know, Harry Redknapp had a lot of those players, didn't he? Was it Kranshaw and a few others who just followed him around? They're very different approaches, aren't they? And yeah, it's interesting for Ange Postecoglou. I just feel like it's. In some ways it's quite a tough gig, isn't it? Because I think most Forest fans would be quite disappointed that Nuno's gone. They might be excited by the new approach, but it's not actually got them results yet. They should have won yesterday. Looking at their. They had an XG of 3.27, which is enormous, actually, away a European game. It's really impressive, but they didn't put the chances away and allowed Real Betis to. To get back into it. So, yeah, it's just. It's really interesting to see the fans perception of Ange continues. I think the fact that he has got that trophy obviously helps him from spurs, but as Sam said, they've taken the lead three times. They've not. They've not hung on. So, yeah, it's. Yeah, as I say, it's just getting interesting to see how. How this progresses under an Postecoglou.
- [08:22]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I mean, the Europa League is winnable for the English sides that are in it. You know, amazing to see him do it again. Meanwhile, Barry Celtic drew one all at Red Star Belgrade. And as Sam suggested, you know, if you told me there was a game where Kelechi and Nacho opened the scoring and Marco Andortovic equalized, I mean, I wouldn't have known the game. I just wouldn't have had a clue. And actually, if you'd said it's part of Sam Belgrade Celtic, I'd have gone, fair enough. Sort of sounds about right, doesn't it?
- [08:47]
Barry Glendenning
Well, I knew Iheanacho was at Celtic because he was this very underwhelming signing they brought in on a free after failing to get anyone better on during the transfer window. And then Adam Ida decided playing for Celtic was beneath him and agitated for a move to Swansea on I think deadline day. This was the derby of despair, I suppose between the former champions who were embarrassed by Paphos in the playoffs, hosting the team that were humbled by the team of former European champions who were humbled by Kairos Almaty. Celtic started with the Zin made up front. It's. It's well documented as well as Ida going. Diogo Furahashi left them from Birmingham. Jota is out with another knee injury long term. And Nicholas Kuhn left as well. And they didn't really replace any of those players. Mark or Nautovic playing for Red Star. That was. That surprised me. I did not know that. I think a draw here was probably fair as well. Casper Schmeichel made a couple of. One sensational save from Bruno Duarte, shot from distance that he somehow tipped onto the woodwork. Arnautovic, last one into the side netting. Cameron Carter. Vickers put a good chance wide for. For Celtic. A header with the goal gaping. He put it wide somehow. There was a. A winger playing for Celtic, Benjamin Negrain, who I must confess, I don't know anything about him. I never heard of him. I thought he was good and he. He teed up Ian Natural for his. His goal. Iheanacho missed a couple of good chances when he natural scored. Actually Joe Hart, who I'm a big admirer of as a pundit, I have to say, off the bat.
- [10:45]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I agree. I think he's very good.
- [10:46]
Barry Glendenning
Joe Hart said, I told you about Iheanacho, he's ice cool in front of goal. And I said, well Joe, now come on, you're over egging the pudding a bit there. But he was ice cool on that occasion. Took a pop past a feet on the turn and smacked it past Matthias in the Red Star goal at the end of the game. Then Schmeichel had to pull another big save out of the bag and Iheanacho missed a good chance to win it for Celtic. But they'll probably both be happy enough with the draw.
- [11:21]
Max Rushden
Yeah, it's interesting, ice cool, isn't it? As a phrase? We think he's probably what, room temperature in front of goal Iheanacho. But then if you're hot in front of goal, that's also good. It's a kind of. It's a weird curve that I haven't really spent any time thinking about until now in the League cup as it was interesting, Robin, that we saw Newcastle win, Spurs win man, City win, Arsenal win. It's actually quite how strong these squads are for these sides. Because they all made a lot of changes. And yet you looked at those teams and you think, blimey, you know, they're not putting academy. Many academy kids out. Certainly, you know, spurs and Arsenal.
- [11:54]
Robin Cowan
Yeah. No, I had the exact same thought. Not much magic in the cup of Dreams this time. Although it's not the cup of dreams, is it? It's the cup of fizzy.
- [12:02]
Max Rushden
Yeah.
- [12:02]
Robin Cowan
This one. But yeah, no, absolutely. I mean particularly arsenal. They made nine changes and they still. It's ridiculous. Starting 11. You know, the Martinelli Trossard, Louis Skelly who can't seem to get a game in the Premier League. Califuri's been referred to him. Ben White who's come out from injury. Saka. Starting. You know, it's. And then as a. Of course, you know. So that's nine changes from the team that you know, drew with Man City. But still that is an incredible strong team. And as they obviously scored his first goal for Arsenal. Really nicely taken. Trossard's second was immaculate. Although I think there were still a few grumbles that they didn't really put the foot down against Port Vale. I think the only little bit of magic wasn't there and I guess Sam can talk about this was Andy Cook's goal against for Bradford. Against Newcastle United. Big, big Newcastle fan. And even though it obviously didn't mean too much in terms of the scoreline, that must have been a great, great moment. But I've got to say. And I know it's. You know, it's the home stadium's prerogative to where you put the away fans. I absolutely hate that from Newcastle United that they pop the away fans as far away as possible, you know. And I know it's. You know, it's obviously to. For their benefit. But you know, I know a lot of people have been there to watch their team and they're just. They're up in the gods and they could. You know, if. If a team. If a player scores, they have to kind of look up and point to the fans up. Up there in the top tier. I just. I don't know. I don't know. It's just not a great spectacle for them. As I say, it's obviously Newcastle's. You know, it's for their benefit. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't like it.
- [13:34]
Max Rushden
And it's not your fault, Sam. But you are the Newcastle representative here.
- [13:37]
Sam
Yeah. And it's a bit like say if you've got a dodgy zoom stream. Sometimes there's a Delay between an away team scoring. Let's. If I'm sat in my seat in the east stand, I see the ball hit the net and it's like 1 second, 2 second and then suddenly you hear the noise. But yeah, I mean Cook, what a story, right? Because I don't think he played in the football league until he was about 27. He suddenly like been prolific from Bradford and they're an amazing team. They. They had this promotion last year, last kick of the game and they're top of league one. So actually had this game been the other way around, it would have been fun for the neutral, I reckon but. So he got injured on New Year's Day and he actually had tickets for the Carabao Cup Final that Nikasa won but he couldn't go because he had knee surgery scheduled for that day. So it was a, a lovely moment for him. Ultimately it didn't really cost Newcastle anything. Well, it didn't at all. But yeah, it was a. On the point about rotating like it was again Eddie Howe did so. And there's an argument to say that, you know on football manager when you played those like inter squad games in preseason in terms of the side Howe picked at Bournemouth on Sunday and the side last night he. It was almost even you going oh, which one's stronger? Which team would beat which team. And that's unusual for Eddie Howe. It's something that he didn't do last time Newcastle were in the Champions League and he's going to have to do now and getting some of those, particularly the defenders. I mean, I don't. It'd be interesting to see what he does against Arsenal defense wise because Trippier didn't play or didn't start last night. But yeah, Willisuda gets a couple of goals. Guimaraes comes in and just controls it. But they played it at walking pace, right and scoring those two goals just before in and around 20 minutes there were some nice little moves and people were like oh, why are they playing 90? But actually for them, for Bruno and Joe Linton it was played at walking pace and good to see Willasula get a couple as well.
- [15:27]
Max Rushden
The most exciting part of last night's Carabao Barry is two of Emil Heske's sons on the bench for City, Jaden and Regan. I mean I don't know how many sons he has but two of them came on. Which is not really a question for you Barry, but was just quite interesting to see the Hes, the spawn of Heskys doing so well.
- [15:46]
Barry Glendenning
Well I Some Years ago, went to Emil Heske's house in Cheshire to do an interview with him. And while I was there, Mrs. Heskey was taking. I'm going to presume it's those two lads to training. And they went to training in a powder blue Bentley. So I look forward to when they break into the first team, hearing the story of the hardship they had to endure as children trying to make it as professional footballers.
- [16:24]
Robin Cowan
There was this weird Irish bloke one time who was talking to dad, but.
- [16:30]
Barry Glendenning
Emil had his own sort of rumpus room, Ned Flanders style in. He's the basement of his house and he had like pool table, foosball, loads of his shirts and other people's shirts up on the wall. And there was a bar in the corner with loads of sickly, what you call them, those sweet shots you drink or students drink?
- [16:56]
Max Rushden
Schnapps.
- [16:57]
Barry Glendenning
Schnapps and that kind of wicked. That kind of stuff.
- [17:00]
Max Rushden
Aftershocks.
- [17:01]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, that kind of thing. Different bottles, all different colors. But a lot of the bottles were almost empty. And I said to Emile, who drinks all that stuff, and he hadn't noticed that they were all almost empty. So I think I may have got his two young sons and their friends.
- [17:21]
Sam
In a lot of trouble.
- [17:23]
Barry Glendenning
So I'd like to apologize for that.
- [17:26]
Max Rushden
Phil Foam's got a nice goal. Played a 12 with Divine Mahogany Mukassa in his first appearance for the side Savino banged in the.
- [17:35]
Barry Glendenning
Is Mahogany a hard man?
- [17:36]
Max Rushden
Well, it's a good question to which I don't know the answer, but yes. Much harder than his brother Bolsa, of course. Sam James Trafford played for City. I mean, you wrote about a million words on him when he was about to sign for Newcastle. Does it pain you to see him not playing for Newcastle and not being even first choice for Man City next?
- [17:55]
Sam
Yeah, it pains me, but I feel for him. I largely feel for me. Because those million words have never yet seen the light of day. And there was a chance if he just stayed as City's number one, they might have. But it's got to be weird for him, right? I've said it on the pod before. Getting games like, this is nice, but he went there to be a number one. Like, he's established himself as a number one over the last couple of years. And he went there with the confidence to be City's number one. But his issue is like, Donna Rummer is just so good. Like, he's just a giant. You look at him as a forward, he must think like, how do I beat this man and we see it game after game. We've seen it in Europe and we'll see it again. So yeah, I don't know what Trafford does like. Does he. Does he try and push for a loan potentially. He'll get games at Manchester City. There will be. There's enough games for him to play, but it's got to be disappointing. And am I sad he's not at Newcastle? I think he would have been Newcastle's number one for a long time. Ramsdale played last night for the first time. We sort of forget about him signing on loan. I mean Nick Pope's been brilliant at the start of the season and Newcastle aren't conceding goals. But how's very conservative with a lowercase c. But I do wonder if Ramsdale might end up as the number one by the end of the season. But long term, yeah, I'd love to have seen Trafford and it may be if he doesn't get games, clubs might go back in for him come January or the summer.
- [19:13]
Barry Glendenning
Would Chelsea not be an ideal place for Trafford to go because they desperately need a goalkeeper?
- [19:19]
Max Rushden
It is a good point, well made. And I mean Pep's not averse to letting players go to, you know, rivals. I don't know. I don't know who are whose rivals given how Chelsea and City are going, where they might end up. But yeah, it's a good point. Fourth round draw. Arsenal, Brighton, Grimsby, Brentford, Swansea Man City, Newcastle, Spurs, Wrexham, Cardiff, Liverpool, Palace, Wolves, Chelsea and Wickham Fulham. Those games to be played the week commencing, I don't know. But when they happen will tell you about them and we'll be back in just a second.
- [19:53]
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- [20:32]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So the Premier League's back. Two remaining unbeaten sides in the league meet at Selhurst Park. Crystal palace unbeaten in 17. I mean, I guess, Robin, it's hard to count stats that span seasons, but perhaps we haven't been quite as glowing about palace as we should have been. And okay, they've won two and drawn three. But you know, they did lose Eze before the season started and haven't necessarily replaced him and defensively very solid. What chance do you give them against Liverpool?
- [21:01]
Robin Cowan
I mean a chance definitely. I think that's the key. They're so, so good defensively they are absolutely rock solid. They give very little away so it's all quite low scoring their games. Quite a few draws as well. I just think Oliver Glass knows exactly what he's doing and again it's just. It's just such a shame that again they've lost a big player. I think that you know it has halted their attack a bit. Mateta doesn't really have too much to feed off. Not as much anyway. So yeah I guess Liverpool obviously will be favorites but I think they'll be. They'll be given a good game and yeah it's just Glasner's contract is up at the end of the season. He's not going to sign a new one. I think he's a bit fed up with just how palace are run but that's just how how it is isn't it? That's just. That's their state. They will sell their best players and you know obviously Mark Gay will go in the summer so I think yeah they kind of have to succession plan for him as well for the. For the head coach because it sounds like this he's going to stay for the rest of the season but that'll be it.
- [22:04]
Max Rushden
Yeah and that would be enormous right for palace to, to lose him. I mean are we at a stage Barry where we need Liverpool to drop some points?
- [22:11]
Barry Glendenning
Well I'm not.
- [22:13]
Max Rushden
I mean you don't need. I know you. I know, I knew that's how you'd answer that question. Of course you're not. But you know we want a title race and you know they are now five wins from five and no one else is mounting a spectacular. I know it's very early and you know there are only five points they lose in Arsenal or Tottenham or even Bournemouth win and it's two points but still it would be good I think for them to lose a game.
- [22:37]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah I suppose it would in the interest of having a title race. But we are only five games in. There's every chance they could drop points away at palace and people have. The main concern about Liverpool is that they're winning all these games without playing well. Now I would argue they played very very well in going to nil up against Everton last Saturday but then proceeded to play very badly as they tried to protect that two goal lead. So there are vulnerabilities there. It is up to other teams to exploit those vulnerabilities and as yet no one's been able to do it. I think palace could.
- [23:21]
Max Rushden
Yeah, they could. They've had their hand forced. Sam. What a blow. They're gonna have to play Alexander Isak because Ekatike is suspended. Will they be okay?
- [23:31]
Sam
It's really tough, isn't it when you have to look at that Fredbear squad and think oh, who's gonna start up front? But yeah, I mean I know you've probably covered it already but Ekatike is a bit of an idiot. I mean that. That's the worst red card. It's the worst two bookings. I don't know if they still do find. Do you remember they always used to be like a two week fine, like maximum. I don't know if you can away with that because players kick off but I hope he's fined. He's. It's a chance as well, isn't it? Because they're both. They both want to play through the middle. Isaac. I like how Arnie Slot keeps referencing sort of Isaac's lack of fitness and not being able to start as if it's somebody else's fault other than the player himself's fault. It's like. Well it's. I don't know what you're trying to get at Arnie, but I'm pretty sure I know why he's not that fit. But anyway. But look he's. There's a couple of chances he missed where a sharp Alexander Isaac would just put away in midweek and that'll come and this is a chance and that you think for Ekatike like you give Alex Isaac, as much as it pains me to even say his name, you give him a go in the side like and he gets running. He just becomes undropable. So I think palace should worry but their defense is pretty good. You know we talked about. You talk about Gay and Lacquire but like someone like Chris Richards goes unsung like he's become a very good Premier League defender the last couple of years. So that back free of palace like it'll be tested but they can do it. Their record against Liverpool at home isn't great actually but I think it's a bit of a misnomer. They win up at Anfield relatively frequently but they haven't beaten them down at Cella since the game where Liverpool lost the title all those years ago. But yeah, so tough one for Palace. They've got Sar back I think he's missed three games from a hamstring injury. And that that back four of Liverpool's is where they're. I mean it feels weird to call it a vulnerability because it's. They're in the top of the league basically and not dropping points. But that is their slight vulnerability.
- [25:19]
Max Rushden
Yes. I got in trouble for I think the other day for saying palace have a good record against Liverpool. Then someone messaged to say Liverpool have won the last 2000 games at Selhurst park or something like that. So my apologies. Look Sam. You've had enough of talking about your former players who are good elsewhere. Like Anderson or Isaac or players that almost came to you. But let's talk about your team and the players that are actually there. They play Arsenal at home. What is the sentiment at the moment at St. James?
- [25:47]
Sam
It's a mixed one. I think it's been a like people feel it's been a very good start despite circumstances and despite the lack of points. Like not having a center forward in games is. Has cost Newcastle points right a couple of times. Anthony Gordon comes back for this one after that silly suspension. How's having to evolve. And Newcastle's game plan is essentially go at teams for the first 30 minutes. Like really properly press them. Try and scare them and get that early goal or two. If they don't do that they're still not quite sure how to play in games. I feel like the Barcelona was a good example. They did it for half an hour but they didn't get the goal. And that's probably how the PSG game a few years ago would have gone had they not got those early goals. And Liverpool was the same. Arsenal don't have a good record coming up to Newcastle in the last few years. I think they've. They've lost the last four. We don't know what kind of team. How he's going to play. And it's weird I said it a bit earlier. Usually you can be pretty sure who's going to play. He's very loyal. Fabian Shea is out with concussion. And Malik Chow's come in and looked really really good. And there's an argument that people like him and Botman and Lewis hall didn't play in that Champions League game. And you're thinking oh I mean it's great we have that depth. But are you too loyal Eddie? The Kieran trippier one is interesting because he just looks at the very top level. And that's what Arsenal are. Barcelona are. It just looks a little bit past it. And teams are targeting down the right. And it's interesting to see how the games evolve because he's probably used to playing against wingers earlier in his career like Sterling and Wright, Phillips and Lennon. And now the left wingers. They're all kind of like massive inside forwards. You know, Rashford gave him the run around. People like Cunha. I don't know who'll play off the left at Arsenal. Martinelli's probably could play there. So it's a very different game. So that's the weakness that I think Arsenal will be looking to exploit. But it's always a great atmosphere. Valtemada will start. He's having to manage him the Johan Visser injury. Visser basically didn't miss a game for about two decades and has suddenly gone off on international duty. And now he's not available. So that will annoy how because he likes to bed players in. It's going to take some time because the attack is very different in terms of its makeup. Valtomaarde looks a good player. He's probably not the can conjure something out of nothing forward that Isak still is. And Arsenal defenders will be pretty pleased there's no Isak because he gave them a torrid time a couple of times last year.
- [28:13]
Max Rushden
On the Arsenal perspective, Robin, I mean there has been this criticism about, you know, whether Arteta is courageous or not. And it was quite interesting after the City game where City was so defensive and perhaps Arteta wasn't really expecting that. But they didn't do enough to break man City down and a man City that aren't quite as good that perhaps they need to go into these games and. And sort of. I don't know the way Sam suggests at Newcastle setup. You're probably smart to be not that courageous for 30 minutes but be quite interesting to see if, if, if Arsenal do go for it.
- [28:43]
Robin Cowan
Yeah, but what does go for it mean? This is the thing because yeah, I think they have struggled to break down teams and Newcastle have an exceptionally good defensive record this season. And yet as I mentioned against Port Vale I think there were again there were sort of grumblings of loads of possession but not too much threat. So I mean will he approach it differently? I don't think so. You know, obviously they're going to try and win but you know, it's another big game. I feel like they've had this sort of super Sunday game, haven't they? Very often early on they've had Liverpool, Anfield, they've had Manchester City and now Newcastle, you know They've. It's quite a difficult start against teams that are obviously competing for Champions League places. I feel very sorry for Noni Madueke, I've got to say, because he had a fantastic start to the season. It's. He's going to be out for at least a couple of months, it seems, with injury. They should have Odegaard back though, so he could provide a bit more creativity. So. Yeah, I mean, again, it's going to be a really intriguing game. I'm not expecting a very high scoring game, I would say I think that, you know, maybe that, maybe that sort of, that result against Man City last season sort of, I don't know, clouded things, you know, that was it 5:1, you know, in that game.
- [29:50]
Max Rushden
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:51]
Robin Cowan
I don't know. I just don't think realistically she can't do that really, against most teams in the Premier League.
- [29:56]
Max Rushden
Yeah. And actually just so it just does oversimplify things when you decide, and it was my question, so I'm at fault for it, I guess Barry, to say, look, you know, will you go for it or will, you know, it's not as simple as going for it or shutting up shop. You have to look at what the opposition's doing and if they, you know, if an opposition comes at you, that means they've got holes behind them. But at the same time, you know, it's. It's not a crime to be cagey at times in football matches.
- [30:19]
Barry Glendenning
No, absolutely not. Look, Arteta seemed very surprised by criticism that was leveled at him about his tactics in the City game. So journalists basically did that thing where they quote what the sky pundits said back at him and then he, at his pre match presser ahead of the Port Vale game. And so he said, well, no one had a problem with my team selection for the Athletic Bilbao game. So you know what, where was the criticism then? But I would counter that with, well, the Athletic Bilbao game didn't really matter because it was the first of eight Champions League games. So even if you lost that one, six nil, it's no big deal. Whereas the game against City is a far more important one to ideally win or ultimately not lose, which is what they did in the end. And then he, he, he argued, well, we had 70% possession against man City.
- [31:21]
Sam
Who.
- [31:21]
Barry Glendenning
What other team ever notches up numbers like that? And that's, I suppose, a fair enough point. But what did you do with that possession? Very little, I would say. So he's entitled to his opinion, his critics are entitled to theirs. I don't think either opinions are spectacularly unreasonable. But I do think he got it wrong against Liverpool and City. This is away at Newcastle, I don't think. I think we can all agree Newcastle are not going to be Arsenal's title rivals, but they're one of those teams they. They have to be if they fancy themselves to win the league.
- [32:00]
Max Rushden
Chelsea, Brighton. Ali Maxwell yesterday said the vibes are off at Chelsea. And the caveat is, I guess is that it's so early in the season for all these games. Robin. But you. It's. It's such a fascinating case study of a football club because it's sort of so different with so many players, etcetera, that if things don't go right, you know, and for the neutrals, that's probably the direction they want it to go to see what happens. Right?
- [32:24]
Robin Cowan
Yeah. No, you're right. They're such a hard club to read, aren't they? Really difficult. And Barry alluded to it, this, this goalkeeping situation is totally absurd, isn't it? Because again, they kind of struggled past Lincoln. Philip Jorgensen was in goal. He flapped quite a lot. And then you got Robin Sanchez who obviously did what he did last weekend. It's absolutely the. The fact, the amount of kind of player trading they've done and they haven't got a sort of really top goalkeeper is quite mad. This is always quite a good game. I think quite a tasty game because Chelsea have kind of been seen as a sort of feeder club for Brighton. There's a lot of ex, ex Brighton players in the, in the Chelsea squad. So it's interesting and yeah, I know you said it last time, but David Squire's cartoon on Enzo Maresca was sensational. But I think there is a kind of serious point there with, yes, footballers are paid well. Raheem Sterling hasn't had that easy life, has he? And I'm also sure that he's probably not in a great place at the moment. So, yes, I'm sure Enzo Maresca's dad has done some pretty hard yards and it's a tough, tough thing he's doing. But I also think you can have sympathy for these overpaid shirkers who are being forced to train in the dark or, or whatever.
- [33:46]
Barry Glendenning
Those overpaid shirkers can leave the club if they want to.
- [33:51]
Max Rushden
Can they?
- [33:51]
Barry Glendenning
There's no one keeping them prisoners there.
- [33:53]
Robin Cowan
But they also. They were given a contract so they can stay and not do much.
- [33:57]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, they can stay, but I, I don't really buy the complaints if and The Instagram post Raheem Sterling put out, he, you know, he just Observed it is 8, 20 past 8 at night and it is cold. It wasn't a long.
- [34:14]
Robin Cowan
It wasn't a complaint, was it? Yeah, but.
- [34:16]
Barry Glendenning
So he may be happy enough there in, in the bomb squad, but he, if he wanted to, he could leave and he, but he would have to take a big pay cut. Apparently he doesn't want to leave London so he's limiting his options. But I'm kind of with Moresco on.
- [34:35]
Max Rushden
This one come January and you see and a disappointing performance as Raheem Sterling and Chris Wood failed to link up for out of sorts West Ham under Nuno Espirito. But hopefully Raheem can get the same agent as Dion Dublin and then host Deadliest Catch and then prove, you know, then we can find out once and for all who had it tougher. Mr. Maresca Sr. Or Raheem Sterling. Brentford play Manchester United Sam, you know, United emerged from the chaos of the Chelsea game with three points, so they need to build on that. But Brentford are sort of tricky to work out under Keith Andrews so far.
- [35:11]
Sam
Yeah, it feels a little bit 10 Hagian, doesn't it, that if that's the right phrase or. Well, they get a win. So now they're going to build on it. Manchester United have turned a corner, etc. Etc. Yeah, they've changed quite a lot under Keith Andrews. Brentford, they're really compact and they press really aggressively from goal kicks as well. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, with the narrative around Manchester United's goalkeepers and who's going to play. It seems like Bayern Deer is the number one for the time being, so that'll be interesting. They just need more from their new signings.
- [35:43]
Max Rushden
Right.
- [35:43]
Sam
Sesko's come in and Buemo's come in and I know Sesko's not played an awful lot or not started games an awful lot, but I mean, so he's only played 207 minutes, not yet scored or assisted. And buo going back to his former club, he was prolific for them last year, but just got the one goal in five games. And there was this a little bit of talk about how last year he was so far above his XG in terms of goals and whether that was sustainable. But perhaps it's written for him to go back to Brentford and, and score a couple who knows of Manchester United. How can you predict them?
- [36:17]
Barry Glendenning
They haven't won any of their last seven Premier League games away from home, which seems remarkable.
- [36:24]
Max Rushden
I mean actually it sort of feels totally understand, you know, I feel completely unsurprised but I thought it'd be more.
- [36:30]
Robin Cowan
I did this game last year actually and they. It was 4:3 to Brentford. I don't if you remember but Manchester United had heavily rotated in in anticipation of the Europa League final which obviously paid off for them.
- [36:42]
Max Rushden
Yes, yeah, I forgot. The G Tech was sort of exciting last year, you know, especially at the start. So many goals weren't there. Villa play Fulham. They played Bologna in the Europa League tonight they were in advanced talks with the former Rail Sociedad sporting director Roberto Alabe to replace outgoing president of football operations Monchi. Is this significant, Barry? You had an interesting stat about their team from the weekend.
- [37:04]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. The Villa team that started against Sunderland had nine players who predated Unai Emery's arrival at the club and he's been there for six transfer windows. So that seems a lot. And I've noticed that in because of Villa's really bad start to the season, people are looking for a stick to with which to beat Emery and. And his transfer record seems to be the one everyone has seized upon insofar as he's brought in. I think about 23 players have come in on his watch. Plus Rashford and Asensio last season on loan. The only unequivocal successes are Yuri Tielemans, Morgan Rodgers who is not playing well for Villa this season so far despite his brilliant performance for England and maybe to a lesser extent Paul Torres and Amadou and Anno. But Amadou and I can't stay fit for any length of time. So in that time they've also sold John Duran for a lot of money. Douglas Louise, Amari, Kellerman, Tim Irag Boonum, Jacob Ramsey, Moussa Diaby. Mainly sales they've made that they didn't necessarily want to. But for PSR reasons, lots of players who've come in under Emery have been very, very underwhelming. Another just on the Villa Sunderland game last week, Morgan Rogers or Sunderland posted a clip on social media of Trey Hume upending Morgan Rodgers with a tackle, which I will charitably describe as full blooded and robust. And Rodgers, I'm pretty sure it's genuinely his account. Rogers took grave exception to Sunderland promoting this kind of violence and setting a bad example. Want somebody to think of the children. And Sunderland fans reacted furiously to this. But I think Trey Hume was very, very, very lucky not to get sent off. And he didn't even get booked.
- [39:13]
Max Rushden
Astonishing. He didn't get a yellow card for that it's absolutely mind blowing. It is a kind of foul that you see on one of those reels of park football that then erupts into, you know, everybody on the pitch, you know, and coaches and managers and friends and wives. This, that, you know, it's, it's a proper Sunday league. I've had enough of you, mate.
- [39:32]
Barry Glendenning
I, I love Trey Hume and I think the only thing that saved him was the fact that Sunderland were already down to 10 men and the ref maybe didn't want to make it nine, but yeah, and, and there were proto. Oh, but he got the ball and now A, I don't think he did and B, even if he did, that doesn't matter.
- [39:53]
Robin Cowan
Just on the, you know, Emery saying about them being lazy and he said lazy a lot, didn't he? And ESRI Consol was asked about it yesterday in the press conference ahead of the European game tonight. And this was the only thing that I think maybe, maybe Emery can turn this around because it seems to be only heading in one direction. But ESRI Conso was saying, yeah, he was right. Yeah, we weren't in the right place. So I just think, I know, obviously, you know, they're sat side by side in a press conference and he can't really say, yeah, I didn't like that, really didn't like that. You know, I don't, don't like him anymore, you know, that he can't really do that. But I just think the fact that he kind of owned it, he clearly appreciates what Unai Emery has done for him. And I feel like that, that sort of comment made me feel like there's a little bit of hope that maybe Villa can turn this around.
- [40:39]
Barry Glendenning
The one thing I'd say there is Unai Emery's English is not great. It's not a criticism and I think he might have meant something other than lazy.
- [40:51]
Max Rushden
Really good. Incredibly fastidious. Elsewhere Man City Burnley Spurs Wolves. Martin got in touch a friend of mine to say I hope your flight went well. You mentioned on the pod that last night was Wolves first win of the season. Wolves beat West Ham 32 in the second round of the Carabao Cup. I'm looking forward to a special pod dedicated to Wolves journey to Carabao cup glory next year. Okay. Leeds, Bournemouth Forest, Sunderland. Everton played West Ham on Monday night. I don't know, Sam, if any of anything piqued your interest from those fixtures.
- [41:23]
Sam
Before we move on, the spurs one is an interesting team selection, isn't it? Because they've been so good defensively. He's made just one change, hasn't he? Jed Spence, who's been brilliant and made his England debut, has been playing at left back. But Destiny Udogi has come back from injury, so he started against Brighton and Thomas Frank was pretty effusive in his praise. So it's just odd to see spurs with a settle back for a Poirot, Romero, Van de Ven, and then it's one of them Doggy and Spence. So there's an interesting battle. And also the. The Palinia one is fascinating. I know he scored an overhead kick in the Carabao cup, although the way it was described in the headlines. And then I watched it, okay, it wasn't quite. I mean, it's still an overhead kick, right? But in the pantheon of overhead kicks, it's. It's quite low down. But they paid. So when Bayern bought Pollino, they paid a lot of money for him and it didn't really work under company it. He didn't really like that style of play. And he started well against PSG and against Manchester City, pal. Brilliant up at the city, but he wasn't so good against Bournemouth. He was taken off against Brighton in that game they pulled back. And it'll just be interesting. There's some spurs fans thinking maybe in games at home against sides we'd be expected to blow away. And then he's a little bit too defensive, which is weird because they spent the whole of last year desperate for that person to play in that position, and now they've got them and already it's like, oh, do we need them anymore? So that. That's piqued my interest, to answer your question.
- [42:51]
Max Rushden
Yeah, and you're absolutely right. One of the lowest budget overhead kicks I would even call it just hooking over his shoulder. I mean, credit to him for scoring. But, you know, that is. That's not.
- [43:00]
Robin Cowan
Who were you talking about yesterday who was, like you said, had a fall. This was like the having a fall overhead kit, wasn't it? The aesthetically sort of elderly overhead kit. I mean, credit to him. Yes, it still went in, but, yeah.
- [43:13]
Max Rushden
It wasn't the Gareth McCleary. The Gareth McCleary of overhead kits. That's what it was. Anyway, that'll do for part two. Part three will begin with the possible World cup expansion to 64 teams.
- [43:30]
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- [44:10]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. There was some suggestion yesterday the World cup might expand to 64 teams. Matt Hughes writing in the Guardian. FIFA's not planning to expand the World cup for the centenary edition in 2030, despite its president, Jenny Infantino, meeting a delegation of South American leaders to discuss the idea in New York. Infantino met Uruguay and Paraguay's heads of state, the president of the South American confederation Comonobol, as well as presidents of Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguaguay Federations at FIFA's offices in Trump Tower on Tuesday for the first formal discussions about proposals raised informally by the Uruguayan FAA at a FIFA Council meeting last March. Does feel like too many, Barry, but I was trying to think 64 is. 64 is actually not. It's just as bad as 48, isn't it? Because you would. You would you have more. No team would play more matches. I think. Although it does seem like a lot.
- [45:07]
Barry Glendenning
It does seem like a lot. I'd be fairly confident the Republic of Ireland still won't qualify, so I'm all all for it. Let's get it up to 128 and then maybe we'll be in with a squeak in 2034. Is it? Yeah. Look, if. If top newshound Matt Hughes says it's not going to happen, I'd be fairly sure he's probably right. It seems excessive on an average World cup, you're already watching is three or four matches a day. I literally do not have time to watch anymore and I have a lot of free time.
- [45:51]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I think in the World cup there'll be eight Sundays. Is it eight? I think eight. We'll have to do some days watching eight football matches. I just can't at what stage? And we might be sitting next to each other. We're hoping to do it from New York. At what point will we kill each other? Or just say, listen, everybody needs a game off of the eight. You didn't have to watch this. You got some free time.
- [46:11]
Barry Glendenning
I didn't have to watch Panama vs.
- [46:13]
Max Rushden
Trinidad and Tobago, with all due respect.
- [46:17]
Barry Glendenning
Because I hate football and I'm a lazy journalist.
- [46:23]
Max Rushden
Wsl, we're three games in. Robin. What? What's what stood out well, as always.
- [46:28]
Robin Cowan
Our old friends Chelsea got the only 100 record. Yeah, I mean, they, they, but again, again they haven't played very well, but they get it done and that's just what Chelsea do. Be interesting to see. Manchester United look very thin, sort of squad wise, but they've managed to make it to the Champions League main draw for the first time. This weekend, obviously was really difficult, particularly Sunday. So I did the Manchester United Arsenal game and it of course was really hard to strike the right tone. It didn't really feel particularly right to be doing it. I was working with Farah Williams who was just totally cut up the whole day. So, yeah, just hope everyone who is sort of still reeling from all of this is looking after themselves because, yeah, Matt Beard, I think it's just been remarkable the stories and the tributes that have flooded in for him. So, yeah, it's just, again, everyone's just really shocked by it and it's just difficult not to be, not to be affected by that news coming through.
- [47:28]
Max Rushden
And actually that it is not important, you know, how difficult your day is to commentate on a game then, but it is professionally and we've all been in that position sometimes where you actually have to do a show when, you know, I know Barry was on air and I wasn't on air when, you know, halfway through a radio show and the news about Ricky Hatton happens and trying to strike the right thing is actually really quite difficult in the position you were in to know and you probably just don't want to do it right. It's sort of one of those, you love your work, but actually it's a game where you just don't want to be there.
- [47:59]
Robin Cowan
Well, exactly. And as you mentioned, yeah, it's just kind of almost sort of, as it happens, sort of trying to editorialize and also make sure you're actually physically the right tone. It's really hard. So. But obviously that is very secondary to what has happened in his family. But, but yeah, it's, it's just, yeah, just very tough, tough weekend for everyone. And yeah, I mean, certainly make sure you listen to the Gardening Women's Football Weekly and the Tom Gary especially has written a really, really beautiful, moving tribute to Matt Beard. So, yeah, definitely point everyone in the direction of that.
- [48:31]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah.
- [48:31]
Max Rushden
And we, as we mentioned on Monday, it's incredibly sad and our hearts still go out to his family, such as the news cycle that you just sort of move on and you know, football happens and life happens and life continues. Perhaps the only Way that is for, you know, anyone outside it to sort of get over bad news and a massive gear change to California Canary who got in touch to say, have you all been made aware that Gianfranco Zola is the designated buggy driver at the Ryder Cup? I don't know if you'd seen this, Barry, that he is driving Francesco Molinari's buggy. And there he is just squatting down right, bottom left, as if he's like a YTS player in this big team. I think it's so great that, you know, possibly the most talented sports person out there is Ranjan Franco. I mean, that is some of them. These are quite good golfers, and I do love the Ryder cup, but how great that he's out there. It makes me want Europe to win so much more just to see him there hugging somebody, you know?
- [49:27]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. Apparently, he and Francesco Molinari became good buddies when Molinari moved to London. And I'm not sure where Zolda must have been at Chelsea at the time, I guess. And he's. He's been recruited to drive the buggy. I mean, there is previous. I do remember one European Ryder cup team had DJ Spoony among the ranks, the backroom ranks, and nobody was quite sure why he wasn't doing anything as important as driving a buggy. So sort of people were going, what?
- [50:07]
Max Rushden
He's good for vibes. Why? He's good for vibes?
- [50:11]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, he was there.
- [50:12]
Sam
He was.
- [50:13]
Robin Cowan
Would you have Kevin Phillips or someone, Barry, if it was you driving you around.
- [50:17]
Barry Glendenning
Look, if you saw me try to hit a golf ball, Robin, you. You will. You would quickly realize I will never be on the European Ryder cup team.
- [50:25]
Max Rushden
I don't think. Barry, I have to say it. I don't think anyone needed clarification on whether you would play golf for Europe in the Ryder Cup.
- [50:33]
Robin Cowan
But who would help you? You know, who would. Who would help you by driving you around in the buggy? Do you think would.
- [50:38]
Barry Glendenning
I might get my Mac and may. Jonathan, Not Wilson, a different Jonathan, but only if he could bring his dog Norman along, because Norman helps calm me down when I'm stressed.
- [50:53]
Robin Cowan
Do you think Zola's like the emotional support for the European team? Yeah.
- [50:58]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, emotional. I think he'd be very good emotional support. Driver slash chauffeur.
- [51:06]
Max Rushden
Rest assured, it wouldn't be me. Barry would find me by about hole 5. Just asking how things are going. He would just be like, get out, get out, get out. Anyway, that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Barry.
- [51:19]
Barry Glendenning
Thank you.
- [51:20]
Max Rushden
Thank you Robin. Thanks Max for the tape. Sam's WI fi was so bad that he has disappeared, but hopefully we'll edit it in a thank you right now. Thank you Sam.
- [51:29]
Sam
You're welcome. Thanks Max.
- [51:30]
Max Rushden
Thanks. Hopefully he didn't say anything derogatory or offensive to me, but I like to be honest in all forms of broadcasting. That's what happened. Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard and we'll be back with on Monday.
- [51:48]
Sam
This is the Guardian.
- [51:59]
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