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Football Weekly
Real Madrid pull clear, Højlund in form and Bayern unbeaten – Football Weekly
00:49:21
Max Rushden is joined by Nicky Bandini, Lars Sivertsen and Sid Lowe to wrap up the major stories from around Europe
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- [00:00]
Guardian Announcer
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- [00:48]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. A Europod for you. Part one. Sid is here to tell us how Xabi Alonso settling in at Real Madrid, top of La Liga after the weekend's games, despite getting walloped by Athletic the week before. Is he getting anyone to track back? Will Jude Bellingham get back in the team? Barca were hammered by Sevilla last time out. That high line again. There's also La Liga and Serie A games overseas to discuss in Italy. Napoli and Roma lead the way. Another for rasmus hjlund in 2023. Pod Agenda News. Christian Pulisic balloons a penalty as Milan and Juve draw nil. Nil in Germany. Some more. Harry Kane is good as Bayern win the title, four points clear of the only other unbeaten side in the division, Borussia Dortmund. There's an incoming Nordic minute, a panellist sun spotted somewhere unexpected. Your questions, as always. And that's today's Guardian Football Week. On the panel today, Nikki Bandini. Hello.
- [01:37]
Nikki Bandini
Morning.
- [01:37]
Max Rushden
Hello. Lars Ividson.
- [01:39]
Lars Ividson
Hello, Max.
- [01:40]
Max Rushden
And welcome. Sid Lowe. Hello. Just for part one, of course. Unless you want to stay.
- [01:44]
Sid Lowe
Good morning, Max. I. I was gonna say I didn't. You know, you've now just assumed that it's always. No one even asked me if I can stay till part two. Well, you would like me to. I would, very. In fact, I was saying, because before we came on air, how much I'm across what's happening in world football at the moment. I absolutely didn't say to Niki and Lars that I have no idea what's happening in any other country other than Spain. So I'm very valuable to you.
- [02:06]
Max Rushden
Yeah. And you're here to learn as well. Let's start with you just in case you do bugger off in 20 minutes. So La Liga looks like this. Real Madrid, 21 points from eight games. Barcelona 19, Villarreal 16, Betis 15. Atleti, Sevilla and Elce have 13. Real Madrid, they beat Villaral 31 at the weekend. Two for Vinicius Junior and Papa with another. Not totally convincing, I guess, but how is how is Xabi Alonso settling in, would you say?
- [02:33]
Sid Lowe
Well, I'm going to point out how little I know by saying that before the Atletico Madrid game last week, I was watching Real Madrid and I was kind of thinking, there's a structure forming, they know what they're doing, there's an idea, there's clarity, they're well organized. And I decided that Real Madrid were a probably going to become boringly good. And then they got wet. They went and got battered. 5, 2 by Atletico for boringly good. I mean, it's excitingly bad, which is. Which is much more fun. This weekend was kind of back a little bit to the boringly good, but I think there was a bit more creativity than they've been in previous games. It was the best performance from Vinicius. There's been a huge debate around Vinicius, whose numbers have actually been reasonably good, but whose performance level wasn't anything like it was. In fact, actually, in a way, his decline kind of starts with that Ballon d' or that he didn't win and that since then his record's been nowhere near as good. But they. But they played pretty well at the weekend. Again, not brilliant, but I do feel like there is a structure being built and I think you're starting to see Xabi Alonso's hand. But what we're. I suppose the question mark we've all got is what happens in terms of the management of the players as people and. And the egos and the fitting together of the pieces and the player. Funnily enough, at the midst of. Of that kind of debate has been Fede Valverde, who said he didn't want to play at right back, wasn't born to be a right back. And that weekend, shabby Alonso puts him on at right back, right.
- [03:50]
Max Rushden
And did he. Did he object or did he just get away?
- [03:53]
Sid Lowe
It was his best game of the season by miles. And this is the. I mean, one of the weird things about fellow Valverde is he actually, he's possibly a victim of this new structure because he's a player who loves to be able to maraud all over the pitch, have the space to run into. And what Xavier Alonso has done is create something a bit tighter, a bit more structured and with less room for him to do that. And from the center of midfield, which I genuinely don't think is his best position. Um, it's not really happened now. He's only fitting in at right back because Trent's out and because Danny Carvajal's out. But it was very Interesting that he went so public in saying that he didn't want to play there. He was then left out of the Champions League game. And then when he was put back in, he was put back in at right back.
- [04:28]
Max Rushden
Jude Bellingham is. What's. What's happening with Jude Bellingham in sort of obvious English biased questions?
- [04:35]
Sid Lowe
Yeah, well, I mean, actually, it's a question that people in Spain are asking as well, so don't feel bad about it being the obvious English question, because he came back from. From that shoulder operation and went straight into the team for the Madrid derby against Athletico. And it's not all about Jude Bellingham and they didn't play badly because Jude Bellingham played, but he didn't have a good derby. There was a very clear sense of almost everyone saying, this is too soon.
- [04:58]
Max Rushden
He.
- [04:58]
Sid Lowe
He wasn't ready, he wasn't right. And actually Shabby Alonso was asked a question after game at the weekend where he came on as a sub. And there's a sense now that they're going to use this international break that, you know, he's not part of the England squad to kind of. I. I don't want to use that cliche term, but I can't think of a better one. So apologies to use kind of a mini pre season, you know, to get him fully ready for it. And Shabby Alonso was asked the weekend, knowing what you know now and given the condition he's in and so on, would you have played him last week? And Shabby Alonso said yes. Without saying yes, he says, well, that's really a question where the answer isn't of any value. So, yes, I think. I think he had decided that. That maybe he'd been a bit premature. For what it's worth, I think Bellingham's shoulder operation was. Was kind of overdue and he had to do it, but they were trying to wait for a time to do it. So of course they went and waited until after Club World cup. And he's really keen, obviously, to get back. And this was always going to be a slight risk for him, was that if that Real Madrid got that structure right in his absence, you then have to find a place for him. Now he's such a good player that you feel like they will find a place for him. But the derby was exactly that question was asked was, hang on, was there too much urgency to find him a place in a team that was actually functioning? And they left out Mast Antoine, who'd been playing really well.
- [06:10]
Max Rushden
My question, the interesting thing about Real Madrid or the I mean, there are lots of interesting things about Real Madrid, but last year we were sort of saying, actually, it's Tony Croz is the guy that you can't replace.
- [06:19]
Sid Lowe
And they haven't, you know, by the way, they still have.
- [06:21]
Max Rushden
And so my question was like, what are they doing there?
- [06:24]
Sid Lowe
To be honest with you, I feel like the answer is probably nothing, which is. Which is a terrible answer. They haven't signed anyone for that position. And, you know, every. Everybody was looking at Philby Mendy thinking, well, there's. There's the man. There's. The obvious answer to this question. Alonso structure has been to have Tchouameni and Valverde in the middle, neither of whom are someone who will dictate a game, but both of whom will kind of underpin a midfield and allow others to play. So, so many from a more static position, Valverde from perhaps pushing the press on the other team, not allowing them out and having some of the energy. But as I say, I personally think this tighter structure means that his energy kind of doesn't get seen because he hasn't got the space to be running around in. They've been trying to develop Arda Guler is a slightly deeper midfielder who, who kind of runs the game a little bit, and that's been us, I would say a sort of maybe a qualified success. It's not entirely right and it's certainly not quite that Tony Cruz style player. And I think there's a belief that Bellingham's not quite that player either. He does some of those things, but he's not a guy that kind of runs the, the tempo of a game and the speed of the game. And so they kind of don't really have it, but they've over. They've overcome that a little bit by being a little bit more compact and having the line of three in front with mast. Antoine' playing well. Vinicius hasn't been playing brilliantly yet, but. But it's Vinicius and at some point will and so. So they kind of look for an alternative because there actually isn't someone to.
- [07:46]
Max Rushden
Play that role worth saying in that game. Villarreal had a man sent off. Very surprised to see rail.
- [07:52]
Sid Lowe
Awful decision.
- [07:53]
Max Rushden
Very, very surprised to see Real Madrid benefit from a decision given the conspiracy against them. But yeah, it's Vinicius massive dive. Pretend to get hit in the face and it's a second yellow. So I guess VAR can't intervene.
- [08:03]
Sid Lowe
But that's provoked part of the debate, which is about, you know, the, the way that the virals are set up. You, you only intervene if it's direct red. And of course, the question being asked now, and actually it was being asked a little bit anyway, but being up. But you know, it's really focused people's minds. The fact that it happened at the Bernabeu is should VAR also step in for yellow cards that, that, that mean a red, even if they in themselves are yellow? Because it was an absurd decision. Really.
- [08:28]
Lars Ividson
Sid, I am curious. I really, really hope you have better things to do with your time than watch like Real Madrid TV all the time. But it always fascinates me when clubs are trying to sort of spin this conspiracy yarn and they get a very obvious mistake in their favor. Like how that is processed and how you kind of like, you just pretend it didn't happen. Do you just kind of go like.
- [08:49]
Sid Lowe
What, you know what? This, this is one of the things that always, that always strikes me about Real Madrid tv because obviously you can create a video and you can create a video and provide the analysis or the, the, the, the images to support your thesis. And that's not that difficult. But as you say, when it comes in a game and it happens, well, what happens is that that's what little I watch of Real Madrid tv. And I should point out that I basically don't watch any. But what's. What, what Real Madrid TV have these unwitting, or maybe not quite so unwitting allies in the mainstream media who pick up the Real Madrid TV videos and tell everyone what they're saying. For all those people, which is basically all of the people who aren't watching it and what they do is just ignore it or just say, yeah, that's a red card, and carry on.
- [09:26]
Max Rushden
I mean, that sort of works in the world at the moment.
- [09:30]
Sid Lowe
As I was saying that, As I was saying that, I was thinking, this sounds kind of familiar right now.
- [09:35]
Max Rushden
Let's talk about Barcelona. Second, after a surprise defeat to Sevilla, at least it was a surprise to me. Three of Sevilla's goals were, you know, Barca's high line somewhere in the opposition half. But like it was, you know, Lewandowski missed a penalty at 2. One penalty given away by Adnan Januzai. Yes, me neither. But that was. Was that a surprise result?
- [09:53]
Sid Lowe
Yes, I mean, of course it was a surprise. Although, I mean, it depends which way you want the analysis. And I've just been responding to people below the line on my piece about Sevilla, which is that, you know, I sometimes think, well, why does the analysis have to be about, about Barcelona all the time. You know, how about. Here's a really good team who managed Barcelona perfectly. But let's, let's do the Barcelona analysis, which I think is really interesting. When Barcelona got a draw at R, they got totally overrun. And John Garcia, the goalkeeper, made four or five really good saves. And after the game, Issy Palathon, who's r is number 10, said that Inigo Martin, if the coach had told us about the flick line, and I just love the fact that it was called the flick line. This is the main line.
- [10:36]
Max Rushden
Sounds like something from Al Alo alone.
- [10:38]
Sid Lowe
Exactly. Right. This, this is, this is the plan to get through the front line. And, and, and essentially what Sevilla did was apply something similar. People running from a little bit deeper, going into the gap behind the fullbacks. There's a lovely bit of footage. The players come off for the drinks break. 30 minutes, 33 minutes at the weekend. And Matthias Almeida gets the players together. Sevier at this point are winning 1 nil and could already be 4 nil up. And he says to them, do not let them think. And he says, and he has got a yellow card and he's talking about the left back for Barcelona. And he says, it's touch, return, go. Touch return, go. Touch return, go. And then he says, and I love this, and not least because it sounds kind of sort of almost Dr. Evely says, Liquidate this. You know, don't sit back. You've just got to keep on going at this lot. Now they scored three minutes later, so I suppose that part of the plan was good. You're right, though, that the second half Barcelona were better. Marcus Rascals scores a really lovely volley. Just before half time, they get a penalty which they miss. And they had chances, particularly Rooney Baji, who had a couple of good chances, but then Sevilla catch them twice at the end, but all of the goals are through that line. I'm going to defend Flick quite a bit here because all the last season it felt like we were obsessed by this high line. And at the end of it you go, well, actually, you know what? They were brilliant and they did this highline brilliantly. And so there's a bit of me that thinks, yes, we know that there's a risk in the high line and I'm sure Flick knows it as well. And we know that comes with an environment in which occasionally, when they get caught, they'll get caught badly, but when they get it right, it's. It's fantastically useful for them. At the Bernabeu last year in the first classico they caught Madrid offside 12 times, Mbappe eight times, you know, and this is working perfectly. So I think part of what's happening now is it's not working as well. It's not just that they do, you know, the fact of doing the high line, it's doing the high line really, really badly. I think the absence of Inigo Martinez, who was the one that led the line last year in the timing is really important. He's gone to Saudi Arabia. I think they're not putting pressure on the passes the way that they did before. And yeah, the weekend it looked absolutely, absolutely awful.
- [12:38]
Max Rushden
Sure. And I guess idiots like me can spot this as opposed to, you know, teams conceding other goals that's just slightly, slightly different or slightly more complicated.
- [12:46]
Sid Lowe
This is the other part of it. So, so the other part of it. There's been a lot of discussion about how well opponents have worked this out. Now, obviously it, as you say, I'm not pointing you now, Max, but any idiot, any idiot can see it because it's such an obvious and identifiable characteristic of the way they play. But of course there's a difference between seeing it and being able to play against it and working it out. Because as I say, last year, loads of offsides, their timing was brilliant. I think what's happening is other teams are working out ways of getting the timing right at exactly the point at which Barcelona are getting the timing wrong.
- [13:18]
Nikki Bandini
I was just wondering, Sid, because it's, it's like one of those weird things where you can easiest thing, especially in the season, read too much into numbers like this. But when I was having a glance at the table this morning, I did think to myself, there's not a single team in Spain in the league anyway that has conceded fewer goals than played games. Is that just the moment the league is having a little bit that there's not really anyone who's defending that well or even trying to, to play in a more cautious way.
- [13:42]
Sid Lowe
Do you know what? I, I, that's not, that's not something I'd noticed. It feels like real ma are maybe a little bit not cautious, but organized and they're structured better Viar a team that I think are well structured and play large on the break. I must admit I hadn't realized they conceded that many. I think it probably is about the way teams are approaching it. Elche. I always feel like a very well structured and well organized and don't concede many, but yeah, it probably is something about them, them not defending that brilliantly cavalier league.
- [14:11]
Max Rushden
Stephen Says Dimax and Barry, who isn't here. Can you please get Dr. Lowe on to talk about La Liga staging matches abroad? Does the good doctor think this is a turning point in football or simply a gimmick? Also, is this Barca pulling another lever out of thin air? You know, this goes for you as well, Nick, isn't it? Because. So Villarreal, Barcelona will be played in Miami, which will be Barca's home game, and then Milan are being permitted to play Como in Perth in Australia.
- [14:37]
Sid Lowe
It'll be Barcelona's away game, but it will feel like a game, which is actually obviously part of the debate about this, whether this adulterates the competition, whether it, you know, it depurifies. It. Is that a real word, depurifies? Anyway, whatever the word is, it is now. It is now, yeah. Did you see the UEFA ruling on this yesterday?
- [14:54]
Max Rushden
Yeah. When I said it had reiterated its clear opposition to domestic league matches being played outside their home country. However, given that the relevant FIFA regulatory framework currently under review is not clear and detailed enough, the UEFA executive Committee has reluctantly taken the decision to approve on an exceptional basis, the two requests referred to it. And I think UEFA's fear, reading the Keynes piece is that if they tried to, if they said no and there been a legal debate, it could have like, opened the floodgates. And this is UEFA's way of saying yes, but no, but yes, but.
- [15:23]
Sid Lowe
I mean, I, I thought it was very, very striking the, the, the way it was expressed. And you've just read it there, that, that idea of yes, but no. Well, first of all, if you really opposed it, you can say no. But as you. You're absolutely right. I was talking about talking to someone about this yesterday. It's about the fear that actually they're not in on very good legal. They haven't got good legal support to be able to say no, because then they'll find a legal challenge. So they would rather effectively be working behind the scenes to get some of those legal, what would you call it, legal, that legal framework in place and maybe even have a challenge on the law and allow this to happen and be ready to stop it next time. But there was the other part of their, their statement which said this doesn't set a precedent. I thought, well, by definition it does, surely.
- [16:01]
Lars Ividson
The statement made me think that Sheffer and either doesn't have children or is not heavily involved with raising them because it is this sort of thing of like, yeah, but just this once, I'm completely against this, but I will permit it now. It's like, no, that does not work. This is like when you open the door to that, you're done.
- [16:18]
Nikki Bandini
The one time I let the dog sleep on the bed and then that never stopped again. After that it's done.
- [16:23]
Max Rushden
What's the reaction? So in Italy it's because the Winter Olympics is happening at the San Siro, is that right? That's the reasoning they're using.
- [16:29]
Nikki Bandini
I mean, that's a good excuse, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I think it's reminding me a bit of the discussions around when the A Super League talk was happening because I had a lot of British based editors and producers at that time ask me, oh, you know, the Italian fans as angry as English ones because of course we saw the Super League, there was a big response in England in terms of fan protest and I, I do think there's a slightly different air about the way Italy responds to these things where it's not positive in lots of cases, but it's almost like this air of resignation about this sort of stuff happening. And I think it was voice actually even by Max Allegri, who's the Milan manager, where he said, essentially they tell us we have to go to Perth, we'll go to Perth. And he specifically used the word, unfortunately this is the way that football is moving. So he's not saying, he's not being a good company guy and saying, I'm so happy to go to Perth and do this. He's going, yeah, it's a bit shit, but that's just how things are. And I think that's a very Italian view on this stuff. I did think it was interesting Carolina Moracha, who's a former player for the Italian women's team and who is now a, I think a member of European Parliament. I, I saw she was saying a point that I hadn't been discussed so much, which was she said, I think some of the people who are making this decision have never been to Perth in February because people, these players are going to be going from a Milanese, which is pretty cold, to nearly 40 degrees to play a football match and people haven't thought that through. So I think there's going to be some stuff that, that continues to go with that. I think of course there's likely to be at least something from the ultras, but I expect it'll probably come more in the form of grumbling banners than, than the sort of hugely angry protest that we got with England in the Super League.
- [18:19]
Max Rushden
And the reaction in Spain is, is what? Apart from the sort of Fan, you know, the. It'll be a Barca home game because, unsurprisingly, there are more Barca fans in Miami than Villarreal fans. But. But aside from that, is this a kind of. Is there panic here that this has.
- [18:32]
Sid Lowe
Been coming for such a long time, that it's kind of. There's an inevitability about it as well? Exactly. The kind of scenario that Nikki's explaining in. In Italy happened in Spain. The Super League no.
- [18:41]
Max Rushden
1.
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Sid Lowe
No one, really. There was a bit of. There was a. There was a little bit of complaints about it, but it would never have been stopped by Spanish fans the way it was by English. Partly, of course, because the nature of Spanish football is different and the polarization of it and the fact that it's dominated by Madrid and Barcelona, who are the two partners in that Super League project. In fact, there's been suggestions this week that Madrid might be about to. About to be on their own in that. That Barcelona are starting to. To seek a bit of reconciliation with UEFA, which I think is always what Barcelona wanted, that the Super League would, To use Laporta's favorite word, be a lever which would gain them a little bit more traction with. With UEFA and a bit more power. There. There was something the other, a week or so ago which really, really struck me on there at this, and the CEO of Viarreal, I can't remember, I apologize, this. I can't remember the context of the question, but his response was to say that it was about the. The. The Federation of Supporters Clubs had said something about it. And he basically said, well, that lot, you know, generate 22 million a year or something. Everything in the odds. Sorry, 22, is it 22,000 220,000. Anyway, he gave some figure. He said, this lot generate this much a year, and whereas going to the U.S. is worth this much, and our schools in the U.S. and our academies in the U.S. and all this stuff generates this much. And he was essentially saying, you can sod off. You're irrelevant compared to us going to the. To the us and the thing that was so striking wasn't so much the content of what he said, because, you know, in a way, we were all confronted with a reality, which is an uncomfortable one, which is where the money is generated. Is where the money is generated. It was the. It was the totally dismissive tone of his fans.
- [20:11]
Max Rushden
Yeah.
- [20:12]
Sid Lowe
You know, and those fans then became quite docile and backed down and said, oh, yeah, all right, then. Which I was really struck by. And it was, as I say, for Me, it was the tone. Then there's a whole debate here. We could be here all day, and I sort of don't want to be, which is that I don't know about. I'd like someone to explain to me in very simple terms, because I'm quite a simple man with colors, drawings, if they possibly could, maybe a pie chart and stuff, how much difference this actually makes taking one game to the US in terms of development of football in Spain. You know, so, for example, you get the. The CEO of VI saying, look at what we generate with our soccer schools in the US and our academies and so on. Okay, but you've already got those. You going to the US for a home game against Barcelona in which the stadium will be full of Barcelona fans. What's the tangible impact of this? Now, I'm perfectly prepared for someone to be able to demonstrate to me what it really means, but there's a bit of me that thinks in the grand scheme of things, how much difference is this actually going to make?
- [21:11]
Max Rushden
And if that's the case, then how many games have to go to make it worth it, you know?
- [21:16]
Sid Lowe
Exactly. And. And I don't know what the answer is, and I'd love to know, for example, the NFL figures how much difference it makes bringing games to Europe, you know, what the actual tangible impact of that is. And it might be huge. But it's a bit of me that thinks, is it really because the people who go are already supporting you.
- [21:31]
Max Rushden
Yeah.
- [21:32]
Sid Lowe
So, yes, you get that game, but you get the one day of massive ticket sales. But it's one. Does that actually make a difference?
- [21:38]
Nikki Bandini
I think just to jump in on that, like, because I used to cover the NFL much more and like, from the NFL's perspective, it's. It's specifically that they really feel like they're pretty close to tapping out as much as they can make from American fans. Right. That's. I mean, obviously, like, there's always like a new technology which might give you something else, but they. They've got as many fans in America as they can get. So if you want like, like everything in. In capitalism, you have to keep growing. Everything has to be bigger every year. And if you physically can't do that in the audience, you anymore, it's the only other place to look. And I think there's. There's some replication of that. Obviously it's a bit different with European football because it's not just one country you're targeting to begin with, but there's.
- [22:17]
Max Rushden
Mls, there's the A League, right? And I don't know how the London Monarchs are doing, but really, you know, it's slightly different. Even though if I was a, you know, the Cleveland Browns are playing the Vikings at Tottenham Stadium or Wembley, I forget which, you know, if I was, you know, you don't get that many home games in American football. I'd be furious if I had a season ticket and it. And one of them went away. But it is slightly different because there isn't like a competing sport on the ground that someone goes, well, I'll go and watch Barcelona Villarreal and I won't go and watch Inter Miami, perhaps a bad example of or, you know, Perth Glory, because I'll go to this game instead. And so that doesn't feel sort of. It doesn't. It certainly feels completely wrong to me. But maybe, you know, younger listeners, I.
- [22:57]
Sid Lowe
Mean, those are, there are those kind of moral questions and what it feels like and whether it feels right. And to me it doesn't. But, but I'm more, in a way, I'm more kind of interested in, in sort of challenging the assumptions that this is even a good thing in terms of the business model like that. This necessarily makes a really big difference because ultimately what drives, well, La Liga, for example, and the Premier League and everywhere else is the TV rights. So the fact that you take a game and play it in Miami, one a season, does that actually impact upon that fundamental basic economic model? And as I say, I'm perfectly prepared for cleverer people and there are a lot of them out there to say to me, this is why. And this shows it and this proves it, and this has an impact. The other thing that should be noted, I think here.
- [23:38]
Max Rushden
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Sid Lowe
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- [25:22]
Derek Klassen
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- [26:08]
Sid Lowe
Given the starting point of this, we were talking about the Super League and how England was different and so on. One of the things in this and what Nikki was saying about Italy, you've sort of got to try something is that there is a conceptual belief which they don't want to admit, which is the fear that the Premier League just runs away with everything and that Premier League becomes a de facto super league. And so you've got to do something to try and counteract that.
- [26:31]
Max Rushden
Sid said he didn't want to be here all day, but does he want to be here for the next half hour? Find out in just a second. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Hey Sid.
- [26:46]
Sid Lowe
Hello.
- [26:47]
Max Rushden
Let's do Serie A Napoli Topper Serie A Roma level on points with them. Everyone's played six. Milan two points behind on 13. Then Inter and Juve fourth and fifth. I suppose Juve Milan seemed like the biggest game of the weekend here. Niki Kristian Pudisic ballooning a penalty over the bar. Lovely ball by Luka Modric in the build up to that. And Lloyd Kelly bringing down his man. How's Luka Modric doing? Because it was just nice to see him there. Setting up Liao for a lovely chance. You know that cliche that the pace of the game will suit him. How's he getting on?
- [27:19]
Nikki Bandini
He's doing really good. I mean, it's so fun to watch him. Max and Sid knows this because he's been currying him for how many years? But getting to call it work when you're watching him play football is one of those things where you're like, oh, this is just great. I'm really enjoying this. He was absolutely magnificent in the game against Napoli. Is it a week ago. My sense of time is all wonky at the moment. I don't know which way I'm facing. But, yeah, the last round he absolutely outshone Kevin de Bruyne. And I suppose that head to head between the two big, slightly older, I mean, a lot older, in Modric's case, stars who arrived in Italy this summer. Yeah, I think the thing with Modric that shines out, obviously all the stuff about what he is as a technical player for things he can do on the ball, that's a joy to watch. It's not new. I think what stood out for me in this first part of the season is how absolutely, evidently he is not done competing. I think you see in the way that he puts himself about the pitch, you see in the way that he celebrates, you see in the way that he, like, genuinely, like, is reacting to results as if they mean everything to him. And that's the thing which you just don't know with someone when they're at that point of their career. Is this just going to be a little farewell tour, coming to Milan and getting to live in the city and, and have that experience? It very clearly isn't that at all for him. It very clearly is. He's here to try to win something. And honestly, this Nyland team might just. Max Allegri has come back with a fresh version of the old theme of Allegri ball. I mean, it's. It's be tight at the back and trust your very good players to be very good going forwards. But when one of those players is Luka Modric, it really helps. I think he's move to put Christian Pulisic closer to goal in that central role is paying dividends right now. I know he missed that penalty, but he's a great start to the season. He looks really sharp there at the moment and this team was getting results at the start of the season even without Rafael, who's injured. So when you put all that together, remember they're not in Europe, which of course again is. Is maybe a good thing for. For Modric playing a little bit less. Even though I'm certain he wants to be back in the Champions League, it feels like a good recipe there at the moment. And yeah, Modric is. Modric is brilliant. And I actually think watching him right now, you think yourself, he's definitely going to be there next season playing in the Champions League and isn't he? He's going to be there.
- [29:39]
Max Rushden
So good. I'm just on Max Allegri and this is self indulgent and them going to Perth, which I should have done in part one, but I left my AirPods in a plane, Qantas plane in Perth and I can see them on Find my, you know, on my app, but you have to go and get them in person and they're at Terminal 4 in Perth. So just in case Max Allegri listens to this, when you do get there, could you go and pick them up and send them to me? Napoli, Max.
- [30:04]
Sid Lowe
Why do you think it's Max Allegri that has to pick them up and not Luca or Rafael?
- [30:08]
Max Rushden
Maybe I'll take any of them.
- [30:09]
Sid Lowe
Any of them.
- [30:10]
Max Rushden
I don't mind. Which one. Yeah, if Liao wants to pick them up, totally fine. Given, you know, Christian Pulitz. Maybe he does. Maybe that could be the rapprochement between the podcast and Christian Pudisic. Napoli at top. Rasmus Hoyland getting another winner. Lars, I'll bring you in as a Nord, a Nordic man. It's so great to see him. You know, it was another proper sort of center forwards goal that he scored.
- [30:34]
Lars Ividson
Yeah, I mean, I think I said it on the last part I was on. I just think the key to health and life and happiness is to leave Man United to the point where I think it's worth trying to go to Man United so that you can leave it and get the post. Man United boundaries.
- [30:49]
Sid Lowe
It's like a therapy, isn't it? Yeah, it's like. It's like a detoxification clinic. You go there, you go really horrible cold turkey, but you come out of it cleaner.
- [30:58]
Lars Ividson
So I Have a friend who went to this sort of detoxifying, like, fasting thing in Thailand where you just don't eat anything for a very long time and you have constant like colonic irrigations and they try to get all the stuff out of your body. And he was completely shocked by all the crap, very literally that came out of him and he decided to never eat certain food. I think that's like what Man United could become. Maybe this is what they could market themselves as. Like, just come in and then when you leave, you'll be very happy again. No, I think. And also just like I'm being super flippant, but I also think on a human level, it's nice to see these guys having this much fun. It's tremendous to see McTominay become like an actual superstar in one of the coolest, like football cities around. It's tremendous to see Rasmus Hylund smiling again. You know, it's bringing joy to the world.
- [31:43]
Nikki Bandini
Nikki, It's a little bit tough with McTominay at the moment. I mean, first of all, just on your, your United point, like even just seeing him at the presentations in pre season, like, obviously he did win the steady at MVP award last season, which is going to give you a bit more like confidence, a bit more swagger, isn't it? But I honestly, like, I'm looking at him in pictures, I'm looking on video and I'm thinking, is that even the same person? Like, he suddenly looks like he's. He's had like a physical glow up. He looks like he looks different. Like it has changed him living there. It's really like striking. I think if you look at the. Just as simple as looking at pictures of him when he arrives from United and what he looks like now, maybe that's just the years or whatever else, but he, he looks like he's a whole different person. Having said that, McTominay hasn't heard as great a starter season. He hasn't been bad, but there is this now slightly weird dynamic in the structure of that team because you have got De Bruyne there and they kind of do their best work in the same space. And Conte has tried to accommodate that by shifting to this sort of 4:1, 4:1, where you've got that, I guess, line of players just behind Hojlund who've all got licensed to get forward and get back. But because you've got De Bruyne and anguissa as the two central pieces in that puzzle, McTominay is pushed out to the left, whereas before he was coming through the middle and attacking in the central space a lot more. And it has pushed him wider, it has changed the way he interacts with the. He has been less impactful and it's very early this season. So it's also really easy to overstate that and to read too much into it. So I think it's avoid doing that. But I do think it's an interesting dynamic to watch and see how that continues to play.
- [33:29]
Max Rushden
Out came from behind to win this game. Genoa's goal was set up brilliantly by an Englishman called Brook Norton Cuffy, who may be familiar to Lincoln, Rotherham Coventry and Millwall fans. I said it's quite interesting when you see English player. I mean, I don't know how many there are and you know, lots more Scottish players going to. To Syria.
- [33:47]
Nikki Bandini
Yeah, the Scottish thing, I think there's like at least a little bit of, of the thing that happens all the time in football, which is copycat stuff. One club sees another club do something successfully and thinks, oh, have we been missing that? But it was definitely a. A moment that, that came a bit out of COVID and the lockdowns and I think scouting moving a bit more to. By mandatorily moving to different methods and people relying on tape and video and for whatever reasons these things just led to different avenues being looked at and there was this kind of collective realization that Scotland was. Had to become a place where you could get players who weren't necessarily valued expensively as ones from just south of the border perhaps, but who still might have had those experiences of playing some European football at young ages for clubs in Scotland. And I think some of those opportunities started to, to be developed and then I think there's also like on the other side of it. Absolutely a network of players who talk to each other and say, hey, like life over here is pretty good. And, and that. That has a knock on impact as well. But yeah, that obviously there's. There's a. The. The Scottish contingent. Shay Adams scored at the weekend as well in Torino's 33 draw against. Against Lazio hasn't been starting so much this season because Simeone's been taking that number nine spot there. But yeah, I got the goal and then perhaps even if you want to widen the net, Irish as well. Evan Ferguson at Roma who looked really promising to start the season. The problem with Evan Ferguson is he doesn't score. He does everything else really well. And I think everyone has been pretty impressed with how he started in Team Link up play and everything. But he's on a really long run now of games where he just isn't scoring at all. And I think that's a question that needs to resolve for him. But yes, the Scottish group are most thriving, I think different, differently, different places. Josh Doig is starting every game at Sassuolo Ferguson at Bologna, injured to start the season, but back in there and captaining them at the weekend. Billy Gilmour isn't really in the starting 11 for Napoli, but you. But he gets to play and when you listen to Conte he talks about how much he loves him in training and I think that's almost something that Conte is going to value a lot. Even if you're not the guy who is going to be in the starting 11 every week, having players in the squad who he trusts to make everyone else work, they're but off in training, that matters to him as well. So yeah, lots of success stories. Definitely.
- [36:14]
Max Rushden
We should talk about the Italian national team who are second in their group.
- [36:19]
Nikki Bandini
Do we have to?
- [36:21]
Max Rushden
Well, I mean just the thought of them missing three World Cups in a row is too much. But you know, that was a massive win in the last international break, wasn't it?
- [36:28]
Nikki Bandini
Probably having in qualifying now is that it's almost impossible for them to get past Norway unless Norway loses someone else or drop points to someone else. I mean, rather because the goal difference is, is so out of hand for Italy now. Italy need to, to win everything and hope that Norway chuck it somewhere, I think which isn't looking especially likely at this point in the group. And if Italy don't do that and they go to a playoff again. Yeah, I think things have been very messy. My confidence in Gattuzzo as a tactician is not the highest, but I also think that international managers don't necessarily have to be the best tacticians. And if Gattuza can do the thing which is kind of the brand he's come in on, of, of bringing back that sense of unity and shared purpose to the team, then that would be something. And I do think international football is very vibes based. This is a thing I talk about all the time. I've talked about it on the podcast 100 times, I'm sure. And I think if you can do that right, that would be something. And there was some spirit, if nothing else in the last couple of games. So fingers crossed.
- [37:31]
Lars Ividson
Yeah, I think the key game in this group then the key moment for Italy is this next international game when Norway play Israel. Because after that, I mean we've got the Italy game again, which we could lose, but the goal difference is so much in our favor and we've got Estonia, which I don't think we're going to screw up. But this Israel game is a little bit, you know, Martin Erdogan was pulled out of the squad with the injury. And the Israel game is an awkward thing for Norway because as you might be aware, politically, the resistance to Israel's actions in Gaza is extremely strong in Norway. I think Norway is one of the countries in Europe who are the most upset about this and there's a lot of people in Norway who I think feel this game shouldn't be happening at all. So there is a framework around that game that just adds a little bit of extra to it. I do think Norway should be fine just because Erling Haaland is just back in complete freak mode and you just think that over 90 minutes against the not very good international team, he will get a couple of goals almost no matter what happens, and that should be fine. But I guess if you're one of the people who are listening, who's a big Italy fan, this is the game to really look out for in this international break.
- [38:37]
Nikki Bandini
I do think, just honestly, like the other positive for it. I do feel like there is a current interesting moment of some younger players starting to show up. A bit like Matteo Cancellieri at Lazio, who's really strong at the weekend, but it feels still like we're. We're clutching a bit for these. These players who are not yet at the level they need to be, but there's some good stuff happening. I also think Moiser Keen has really, like pushed on again this last year and a bit for Fiorentina and him being showing some of that for the national team. And. And of course Rutake, even though he's gone away to Saudi, coming back and scoring goes for national team. I think there are some good things in the interior. National team, maybe not as many as there need to be, but yeah, the situation, the group is just so hard to unpick unless Norway throw it somewhere else. Basically.
- [39:20]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Moiser Kane scored a nice goal, didn't he, in that defeat, Fiorentina's defeat to Rome. And we're saying that we're doing a pod on Friday after England played Wales with Johnny Liu and Philippe and Barry. And we will talk about the latest on UEFA's possible ban on Israel and on Israeli teams in European competitions as well. And actually we had a message from a fan saying that we didn't mention the minute silence at Manchester United and Brentford. Manchester City in solidarity with the Jewish community in Manchester. And we probably should have mentioned that and we didn't. And so of course, our hearts obviously go out to anyone who is a victim of any terror attack and the three injured as well, in a serious condition after that attack at a synagogue in Manchester. And we send our love to all of you. And we'll be back in just a second.
- [40:12]
Guardian Announcer
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- [40:51]
Max Rushden
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Sid, you all right?
- [40:54]
Sid Lowe
Why Vax.
- [40:55]
Max Rushden
This is what happens. It's exciting, isn't it? It's good.
- [40:58]
Sid Lowe
Very exciting. I've been watching the background in your.
- [41:01]
Max Rushden
Room, trying to work out what everything is that's assigned. No, it's not signed, but it's a framed picture of Ian Culverhouse.
- [41:07]
Sid Lowe
I thought it might be Culverhouse. I'm not going. I'm not gonna ask you the obvious question because whenever I do, I don't get an answer.
- [41:15]
Max Rushden
No, no, you can't. Bayern Munich, top of Bundesliga, 18 points, six wins in a row. Dortmund have 14. Then come Leipzig a point behind them. Stuttgart a point behind them. Leverkusen a point behind them. Koeln a point behind them. And Frankfurt a point behind them. And I'm not going to read any more. At the table. Look, Bayern beat Frankfurt. Lars at the weekend. They scored up to 15 seconds. Harry Kane broke another new sort of tenuous record. The first Bundesliga player to reach 11 goals after six games has 18 in 10 across all competitions. I mean, his goal was brilliant. And he had another one disallowed. The just sort of effortless center forward play.
- [41:53]
Lars Ividson
Yeah, he is remarkable, Harry Kane. And actually that goal, it's worth looking up. Not because if you've just seen and seen it from the normal angle, I'm not sure you really appreciate how good a hit it is. There isn't. There is a video doing the rounds where you can kind of, kind of see it. Filmed from behind, from the stands and you can see it's kind of hit. He starts it outside the post and kind of swerves it Like I'll say this because Harry Kane is such a big golfer. It is like a punch three iron, like with a bit of a fade on it. It's a punchy three iron fade, maybe even two iron, sort of with a SW. Swaz after that. It's such a beautiful strike. I do think, like maybe he gets enough credit. I don't know. I do feel like maybe since he's gone to Germany now, he's kind of disappeared a little bit from the. From the national conversation about football in England. I think there is a slight under appreciation for just what Harry Kane has done and how many goals he scored in Germany and what an impact he's had. And what is. I think it was Andy Brassler referring to it in the big paper as initially a marriage of convenience, but one that has grown quite a lot closer. And he's someone who seems to, because he's such a calm and uncomplicated guy, he's perhaps even more appreciated at Bayern, a team where there's often like quite a lot of chaos and combustible characters and a lot of drama. You know, famously referred to as FC Hollywood. Harry Kane, there's not a lot of Hollywood about him. He just works really hard and behaves himself and goes about his job and scores a phenomenal amount of goals. And it has been a real success story for him to the point where he's now opened the door. I mean, he's been surprisingly forthright about how when he first went there, he had half an eye on maybe coming back to England at some point because he does have that goal scoring record still in his sights. But he did say now recently that he's maybe now thinking less about individual awards and possibly what they can achieve as the team because they are going very well at the moment by.
- [43:46]
Max Rushden
And I suppose can. Can you make a case for anyone to challenge them? It is early in the season, I guess.
- [43:51]
Lars Ividson
No.
- [43:51]
Max Rushden
No. Okay.
- [43:51]
Lars Ividson
Now it's. It's kind of. And this. And this weekend I think brought a bit of clarity. I mean, I'm sorry, but I think it's six games in, so maybe it sounds ludicrous, but they've been so good. I mean, six wins out of six. Okay. But they've scored 25 goals and conceded three like. And they were playing Frankfurt.
- [44:07]
Sid Lowe
Who?
- [44:07]
Lars Ividson
Frankfurt are having a bit of a weird one at the moment. I mean, really, you do just make an effort to watch Frankfurt. So recent games, in their four last four games coming into this, they beat Galatasaray 51 in the Champions League. Then they lost 43 to Union Berlin. Then they beat Gladbach 64 before then losing 51 to Atletico Madrid. So like, there's a lot going on with Frankfurt right now, but they are one of those teams that on paper should be capable of maybe potentially giving Bayern a game, especially at home. And then the game starts and Bayern are 1 nil up in 15 seconds. It's just ludicrous. They're very, very good. And that's without Jamal Musiala, it's without Alfonso Davies.
- [44:46]
Max Rushden
Are they, Are they Champions League winning? Good.
- [44:48]
Lars Ividson
That's the thing. That's the thing that's very difficult to judge. I think with Barcelona having some issues that we explored and Sid explored in part one, I think with Real Madrid maybe not being the best version of themselves just yet, I think with Liverpool having some issues betting in all these new signings, I think there's a case to be made for Bayern being the strongest looking team in Europe right now. But the caveat being they're not being pushed domestically. They don't have strong opponents domestically. And that's kind of what I want to mention in this segment before time runs away from us. It's almost more, almost more interesting than this game was. Borsa Dortmund playing Leipzig this weekend ended up a 11 draw because with Bayern Leverkusen having stepped on a bit of a landmine in the appointment of Eric Ten Hag and having to rejig their whole season and start over again, they're not expected to factor in the title race. I don't think Leverkusen. So you look at Dortmund and Leipzig as the ones who you're hoping will, will challenge Bayern. Now that was a 1:1 draw and it wasn't a bad game of football. But neither of them looked like they're on the same level as Bayern, really. Dortmund under Nico Kovacs have stabilized. And Nico Kovacs is an experienced coach. He came in last season and really kind of went back to basics, put in a back three really hard working fullbacks. Dortmund kind of having had two really bad seasons in which they've been, I think respectively, 25 and 27 points behind the league leader, which is not good enough. Like if you're Dortmund, you can say it's hard for us to compete with Bayern. Sure. But you really should be the best of the rest. You shouldn't be miles off. And they have been.
- [46:23]
Sid Lowe
They really lost their way.
- [46:25]
Lars Ividson
I think as a club in a lot of ways. They used to have this thing of always finding the next big thing, whether that's Bellingham or Ousmane Dembele or Erling Haaland or Jadon Sancho it looked like for a while. And they combine being this elite finishing school for European talents with having a solid framework around that that only works as long as you keep finding the next big global superstar and they just haven't for a little while. And the framework around it hasn't been that strong under Kovacs. They're now a quite gritty, hard working team. Kovac spoke in the summer about how he's had to rebuild their confidence a little bit. Work on that. But it is all very much like there's an element of going back to basics with it. You can stabilize things that way and you can try to claw your way back to second but you probably in the state the squad is in, the way they're playing, they don't look like a team that can challenge Bayern plausibly. Which leaves RB Leipzig, who are just kind of remain RB Leipzig. They've got a lot of hard working, energetic players, but there is the sense that there is a actually challenging for the title is a step too far for them. So that's a very long way of saying no. I don't think anyone will challenge Bayern for the title.
- [47:30]
Max Rushden
No.
- [47:30]
Lars Ividson
And I do think they are a credible threat in the Champions League this year.
- [47:34]
Max Rushden
This is Lars, this is a Premier League centered question, but it is sort of Germany based and it's, you know, Leverkusenish AAF says tell me everything is going to be okay with Wirtz. And I think it is an interesting, I think it's one of the sort of fascinating questions at the moment in the Premier League is, is how Wirtz is getting on.
- [47:51]
Lars Ividson
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's. I feel like it's every time I'm on anything someone will ask that is this the defining question of the nation at the moment? It's like, are we all sort of on Wirtz watch? No. But I do understand because of the price tag and because the expectations. My take is that and not even my. You don't even need to have watched him that much for Leverkusen to know this. You can just watch his highlights reel on YouTube to see that so much of his best work is relational. It's about connecting with playing little quick passes around the edge of the box, playing little one twos, you know, making the players around him better. And I think when you've just arrived at a new club where there's a few other new players and people are not quite on the same frequency yet, and they're not quite finding each other. And you yourself haven't quite gotten used to the pace and the different opponents you're meeting in the new league. It becomes a challenge. I definitely think he needs a goal or something like this just for confidence reasons, because, you know, I'm sure it's not affecting him that much, but I'm sure it's not affecting him either. You know, becoming the talking point of the nation is not great for your psycho, your mental state, I don't think. But I'm confident that the talent's there. I'm confident that really any club in Europe, none of the top clubs, wouldn't have made that deal if they had the money and the ability to. To do it. I suspect City were a little miffed. I have a feeling City were looking at him as a de Bruyne replacement and was. And that was something they wanted to do. I'm pretty confident he's.
- [49:19]
Sid Lowe
He's.
- [49:20]
Lars Ividson
I know he's good and I think it'll be okay, but I think it's a question of him and the team growing together and finally figuring each other out over a little bit of time.
- [49:28]
Max Rushden
Finally, Lars Maka says there's quite a thing about to happen in Al Svenskan. What's happening in Sweden.
- [49:34]
Lars Ividson
Lars Mjalby. And this is such a. I mean, this is ticking so many boxes for a Scandinavian footballing underdog story, really. So Mjielby are a team from a tiny, tiny place in Sweden, kind of like a farming and agricultural area. Nick Ames has done a good piece on it back in August in the Guardian paper. You can look up if you want, but the sort of municipality has 14,000 inhabitants. It's one of those places that people drive through and forget about in instantly. And they have a team that has. That has been in the top division before, but they've been mostly like part timers and they're heading towards winning the league. And it's remarkable. And it's done on an absolute shoestring. No massive investment from abroad or anywhere else. That doesn't happen in Scandinavian football, really. The head coach is a guy who used to be a principal of a local school. That feels like you sort of Scandinavian footballing fairy tale check mark.
- [50:29]
Max Rushden
Yeah, that's good.
- [50:29]
Lars Ividson
But it's not just to make it, I think. I feel like this is also important for a Scandinavian footballing underdog story. They've brought in a nerd and I say this affectionately. The assistant coach is a young Norwegian guy who hadn't worked in football at that level before, but has a PhD in visual perception in elite football. So they've got in one of these the big tactics blogger energy from Karl Marius Aksum, who's clearly a very intelligent guy and is credited with changing the way they play and making them like the more sort of high pressing. There's a lot of good stuff about small community, local wholesome things, an imported nerd from Norway and a team that is punching so far above their weight it's extraordinary and they might be about to win the league in Sweden.
- [51:14]
Max Rushden
Paul writes While in Bangkok on a work trip this weekend, I took the opportunity to venture down to the fantastic Pat or Pat Stadium a few minutes from the center of Bangkok to watch a Thai Premier league match. Port FC vs Kacchan Buri in Barry where is Sergio Ramos playing category to my surprise, playing in an advanced right wing, cutting inside to use his left foot was Andros Townshend wearing the captain's armband and cutting a frustrated figure on a bog of a pitch after an early sending off using Var. Yes, it's reached southeast Asia. Andros Townsend's Kachanburi lost 8 nil to Port FC. Pictures attached I'm not sure if Troy watches all his games like he watched all his Everton games, but thank you for letting us know where Andros is.
- [51:56]
Sid Lowe
It's good to hear as well that Andross Townsend has evolved tactically and he's now doing something totally different to what he's done throughout his entire career.
- [52:03]
Max Rushden
He's very much, you know, the better version of Arjan Robin is how I like to see it. And that'll do for today. Hey, thanks for doing part 3. Thanks for saying that thing at the end, Sid. So it was worth you being here.
- [52:14]
Sid Lowe
I prove I was still here and it wasn't just a picture.
- [52:16]
Max Rushden
Are you growing a Jeff from Biker Grove or you just have a very gray beard?
- [52:20]
Sid Lowe
No, it is.
- [52:20]
Max Rushden
Is.
- [52:21]
Sid Lowe
No, no, it's not. It's. It's absolutely not a handlebar mustache. It's just unfortunately my beard color is that the. The handlebar bit is darker. So it's pure laziness. And yes, like Jeff from Biker Grove is not really a life ambition for me.
- [52:35]
Max Rushden
Well, there's no better look if you ask me. Anyway, that'll do. That'll do for today. Thanks everybody.
- [52:39]
Nikki Bandini
Thank you, Nikki. Thanks.
- [52:40]
Max Rushden
Thanks Lars.
- [52:41]
Lars Ividson
Bye Max.
- [52:42]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Sid.
- [52:43]
Sid Lowe
Cheerio Max. Thank you.
- [52:44]
Max Rushden
Thanks for staying for the whole thing. Amazing Football Weekly as produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. This is the Guardian.
- [53:04]
Sid Lowe
Men need a store that has the right thing for their thing. Like a Kenneth Cole suit made with Che fabric to keep them cool at their cousin in law's third wedding in the middle of July. Whatever the thing, Men's warehouse has the clothes for it. Love the way you look. Men's Warehouse?