Spurs drop points in survival battle and mayhem at Madrid: Football Weekly

Summary

Football Weekly – "Spurs Drop Points in Survival Battle and Mayhem at Madrid"

Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Max Rushden
Guests: Barry Glendenning, Sid Lowe, Seb Hutchinson, Lars Siffordsen

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers the latest drama from the Premier League’s relegation scrap—especially Tottenham’s fraught draw with Leeds—plus a tour through dramatic events in Spain including Barcelona’s title, Real Madrid’s infighting, and a fairytale Conference League run for Rayo Vallecano. Championship playoff twists, managerial rumors, and some lighter news on Nigel Martyn’s second sporting career and Beth Mead’s Arsenal exit also feature, all served with the panel’s trademark wit and footballing insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Spurs’ Ongoing Survival Saga

Tottenham 1–1 Leeds: Tension, Missed Opportunity, Redemption

• Match Review ([02:22]–[12:32])

  • Tottenham took the lead through Mathys Tel, but the game became "a bad watch," especially after the break.
  • Lars: "He [De Zerbi] has gotten them a little bit tighter, organized ... turned it into quite a bad game. ... But the second half is not great. ... In the end, with the chances Leeds had towards the end, I think a point is not a big disaster, but maybe an opportunity missed." ([04:30])
  • The panel stressed the nerves among Spurs fans and players, particularly in injury time.

• Star Performance: Kinsky’s Saves

  • Seb: "Added time ... Sean Longstaff ... shot from a narrow angle ... Kinski somehow gets a hand on it ... shot struck with such venom you’d have thought there’s more chance of him breaking his wrist ... but he did. And I love his redemption arc ... after what happened in Madrid." ([05:40])
  • Kinsky’s form highlighted—vital for Spurs, especially if they go down.

• Deflation, Mentality, and Key Moments

  • Spurs’ tendency to "deflate like a balloon" after conceding, with several games following a similar pattern of lost points from winning positions.

• Mathys Tel: Hero and Villain

  • Scored a brilliant goal, then conceded a penalty with a rash overhead attempt in his own box.
  • Barry: "I think you have to say he’s a young forward who should maybe not be ... in his own box. ... He was at least like revenue neutral on the day because his goal was out of nothing, and then inexplicably gave away a penalty." ([11:09])

• Key Fixtures and Survival Calculations

  • Spurs: 38 points, two games left (Chelsea away, Everton home).
  • West Ham: 36 points, two games (Newcastle away, Leeds home).
  • Panel agreed that everything is riding on upcoming fixtures, especially West Ham’s trip to Newcastle.
  • Max: "If West Ham win at St James’ Park, then Spurs are in big, big trouble. ... How many wins have Spurs had at Stamford Bridge? I can’t remember any in my lifetime." ([14:38])

• On VAR & Refereeing Consistency

  • Extended dissection of recent VAR calls, especially around keeper protection and the time-consuming nature of reviews.
  • Barry: "When the initial fury has died down ... I hope there is a discussion about ... policing [set-piece scrambles] more effectively." ([18:07])

2. La Liga: Barcelona’s Dominance, Real Madrid’s Turmoil

Barcelona Crowned Champions, Madrid’s Internal Fractures

• Barça’s Title Run ([24:46]–[34:15])

  • Sid: "Since losing the Clásico in October, Barcelona have won 23 of 25 matches. ... They’re on course for 100 points. ... It’s about Flick and the management of a very young squad." ([25:00])
  • Marcus Rashford’s impact: 14 goals and 14 assists on loan—valued but future uncertain due to finances.

• Standout Players

  • Eric Garcia highlighted for versatility.
  • Lamine Yamal called "the best player in Spain this year" by Sid ([32:35])—his meteoric rise and injury risk before the World Cup discussed.

• Lamine Yamal: Supernova Season

  • Sid: "From December until he got injured three or four weeks ago, he’s been absolutely brilliant. Best player in Spain ... and sometimes looks like you actually can’t stop him.” ([34:01])
  • Discussion of his social media posts showing pressure and vulnerability, relatable for an 18-year-old carrying a giant club ([34:15]).

• Madrid’s Meltdown: Fracas, Fines, Mbappe Blame, and Mourinho Rumors

  • Valverde and Tchouameni’s fight: "It really is [extraordinary] ... so much of Valverde’s statement was kind of like you could sort of pick through it and go, so, nope, nope, nope. Neither of us hit each other. It wasn’t a big deal, which is why you’ve just been fined half a million euros each." ([36:44])
  • Real’s failed "BMW" attack (Bellingham, Mbappé, Vinícius) and dressing room divisions mentioned.
  • Online petition for Mbappé’s exit: over 32 million signatures, partly reflecting "an undercurrent ... but also ... something very superficial ... a meme now of Mbappe as the dictator who comes in and orders everyone around and it ruins everything." ([39:39])
  • José Mourinho’s possible return: "[Florentino Pérez] has always wanted Mourinho back ... it’s about the only manager he’s ever really believed in." ([41:21])

• Conference League Fairy Tale: Rayo Vallecano

  • Sid: "It is not a million miles off being one of the best things that’s ever happened." ([43:30])
  • Described as the classic neighborhood club with crumbling infrastructure but immense spirit—"Let’s do the Hollywood thing. ... Tiny little league team from a marginal neighborhood ... goes and plays the World Series." ([46:33])

3. Championship Playoff Drama

Hull Stun Millwall, Southampton-Middlesbrough Preview

• Hull City March to Wembley ([49:00]–[54:44])

  • Hull beat Millwall 2–0 away, overcoming a transfer embargo and low expectations.
  • Seb: "They started the season with a transfer ban for three windows ... to be in the playoff final is quite remarkable." ([53:17])
  • Manager Sergey Yakurovic’s unlikely journey praised: "Maybe the biggest achievement in my football career." ([54:12])

• Millwall’s Agony

  • Hull’s tactical shift and ability to exploit Millwall’s frailties highlighted.
  • Barry: "Millwall have been more or less the team you’d expect them to be ... but [this game] wasn’t that at all really. Was that because Hull were really clever in the way they approached it?”

• Southampton v Middlesbrough, Spygate Shadow

  • Tension over potential EFL sanctions and the playoff final, with panelists joking about a courtroom drama, "A Few Good Fullbacks." ([56:37])

4. Women’s Football: Beth Mead’s Arsenal Exit

Legacy and Next Steps

• Beth Mead will leave Arsenal after her contract expires.
• Seb: "She will leave Arsenal as a legend ... she provided the assist that led to them winning the Champions League last season." ([57:22])
• Manchester City suggested as a likely destination, given her England ambitions and personal ties.

5. Nigel Martyn, Dual International

• Former England goalkeeper will play for England’s over-60s cricket team.
• Max: "He’ll get his red cap on Friday for the game against Scotland. ... Good luck to Nigel Martyn." ([60:02])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Barry on fan stress: "Numbers, not good numbers [on blood pressure] ... I thoughtlessly decided to measure my blood pressure during the game and I can tell you, Max—numbers, not good numbers!" ([03:23])
• Seb on Kinski’s save: "You’d have thought there’s more chance of him breaking his wrist here than keeping it out. But he did ... and I love his redemption arc." ([05:40])
• Sid on Lamine Yamal: "He’s Spain’s best player ... there have been periods this year I watch him play and think, yeah, he might well be the best player in the world." ([33:43])
• Sid on Rayo: "They’re the ultimate expression of the neighborhood team, the working class neighborhood team ... stadium that’s only got three sides, flats overlooking the other side ... and now they’re in the final." ([43:30])
• Lars on Spurs-Chelsea rivalry: "If there’s any sense of the ... spirit of Chelsea Football Club still alive, they will go 150% in this because ... there’s been so much spite in terms of sheer nastiness. ... If these Chelsea players want to show their fans they have any affiliation ... relegating Spurs is a very good place to start.” ([15:21])
• Panel on Spygate: "The court drama following Spygate could be the shot in the arm this needs ... a few good fullbacks, you know, a very tense courtroom drama." ([56:37])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:22] Spurs–Leeds: Match breakdown, Spurs’ state of mind, Kinski’s heroics
• [05:36] Goalkeeper performance debates, comparison to recent post-Madrid doubts
• [09:44] Tel’s penalty, Madison’s non-penalty
• [14:01] Spurs and West Ham run-in permutations
• [17:36] VAR, fouls, set-piece chaos, and Premier League’s particular problems
• [24:46] Sid on being "relegated" to Part Two; La Liga rundown begins
• [25:00] Barça’s title campaign, Rashford’s influence, finance talk
• [34:01] Lamine Yamal season analysis, injury worries for the World Cup
• [36:44] Real Madrid unrest: player feud, club culture, managerial rumors
• [43:30] Rayo Vallecano’s Conference League magic
• [49:00] Championship playoffs: Hull’s resilience, Millwall’s heartbreak
• [57:22] Beth Mead’s Arsenal legacy and next steps
• [60:02] Nigel Martyn’s cricketing chapter

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Tone and Style

Lighthearted, irreverent, and informed, the episode blends serious sporting analysis with banter and comic relief, reflective of Football Weekly’s ethos. There’s warmth for the underdog, compassion for suffering fans, and plenty of self-deprecating humor (human and avian—parakeet shoutouts included).

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Summary

This lively episode unpacks the drama of a Premier League survival dogfight, the shifting power in Spanish football, an underdog story in the Championship, and notable news from the women’s game and beyond. With sharp analysis, inside stories, and plenty of laughs, it’s a must for any football fan wanting the stories beyond the scoreline.

Transcript

[Max Rushden]

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[Barry Glendenning]

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[Sid Lowe]

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[Max Rushden]

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. So the agony continues for Spurs. Too many people were saying, ah, that's it, it's done. But it absolutely isn't. It could have been better. They took the lead. A wonderful goal from Mattis Tell. Then he connected with an overhead kick. Unfortunately not with the ball, but with Ethan Ampadu it could have been worse. Antoninkinski with a quite breathtaking save in the very stressful injury time. Two points then between spurs and West Ham. It is not over. Sid will join us to discuss Barca winning the title, the Chalameni Valverde Fracar at Real Madrid and Real Vallecano getting to the Conference League final. Also today, Hull City reach the playoff final after a great late win at Millwall. Perhaps the least fancied of the four have a chance to get back to the Premier League for the first time in nine years. We'll have the latest on Spygate ahead of Southampton Borough and discuss Nigel Martin playing cricket for England. All that. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning.

[Sid Lowe]

Hello.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Hi Max.

[Max Rushden]

And welcome Lars Siffordsen.

[Barry Glendenning]

Good morning, Max.

[Max Rushden]

And good morning, Seb Hutchinson.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Good morning, Max.

[Max Rushden]

Let's begin then at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Tottenham one leads one. Lars, you are Spurs. How was it for you?

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean, maybe this is not the most important point, but like recently I've decided to do a thing that people who are like approaching a sort of middle age do, which is kind of look after their health a little bit more. And I've gone to the doctor and we've been measuring blood pressure and things like this and as part of this I'm now measuring sort of my blood pressure at home to see where it's at right now. I thoughtlessly decided to measure my blood pressure during the game and I can tell you, Max, numbers, not good numbers, were the. They were up since yesterday. Mysterious.

[Max Rushden]

Well, I hope you didn't do it in injury time is all I'm saying because that was.

[Barry Glendenning]

No, I did it just as Matthiaskell scored. Like I was sat there doing my blood pressure just as the goal went in and then the numbers came back like completely way up. Arguably not the top line from the game, but that's the thing that happened in my life. No, listen, I can't make up my mind about this because this is one of those that could go either way. If spurs stay up, we will look back at the Kinski save as like the moment that kept them in the league. And if they don't, then clearly this is a missed opportun because I think in the first half, the first hour, half hour at least, this was not a good game. They were not playing very well but they were, broadly speaking, under control. Leeds weren't creating anything and spurs were creating little looks that you kind of feel confident someone's going to turn into a goal at some point. And I was sat there thinking this is the exact game that I was afraid Roberto de Zerbi maybe couldn't orchestrate. I was worried when he came in he would Try to do all this sort of baiting the press and tidy passing through the middle with Polynha and the boys and that this would be a total disaster. But what he has done, he has gotten them a little bit tighter, organized. He has worked on their mentality. They're more aggressive and they were able to turn it into quite a bad game. They were not able to really press Leeds high very effectively because Leeds were very direct. So the thing that's been really working for them the last couple of games wasn't as effective here, but he turned it into a slightly boring game, which I thought was broadly speaking, good. But the second half is not great. Between the 45th and the 90th minute, I think Tottenham have two shots now. Maybe that's a depth issue. But first half fine. Second half not so good. Tell scores a great goal and then kick someone in the head in his own box. In the end, with the chances Leeds have towards the end, I think a point is not a big disaster, but maybe an opportunity missed, I guess.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah. I mean, the save Barry is incredible, isn't it?

[Seb Hutchinson]

He made two brilliant saves in this game. The first was from Joe Roden. A downward header at the first far post which was definitely going in the bottom corner. He got a hand to it. Brilliant save. And his saving added time from Sean Long staff who played a lovely give and go with James Justin, I think it was. And then shot from a narrow angle that was going into Kinski. Somehow gets a hand on it. I mean, it's. The shot is from very close range. He somehow gets a hand on it. Incredible reflex action and, and tips it onto the crossbar. I mean, the shot was struck with such venom that even getting Andrew. It was. You would have thought there's more chance of him breaking his wrist here than. Than keeping it out. But he did. And I love his redemption arc, which we have mentioned before after what happened that in Madrid. He showed incredible mental strength to come back from that. And he was a real hero last night, if not the hero.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah. And he's good with his feet as well. Actually, Seb, like you're sort of looking ahead to next season and going if Tottenham in the Championship, he's your number one keeper. It, it, it. Could he be your number one in the Premier League? I don't know. But he's shown in the last three games how, how good he is. Don't know why you're laughing at Tottenham being in the championship. It's a very good league.

[Lars Siffordsen]

And I rolled off the tongue, you know, they're not in the bottom three, don't you?

[Max Rushden]

I do but you know we'll get to the fixtures in a second.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Yeah. I mean Lars mentioned the stress. You've, you've sort of stated it there. Looking forward to the championship and I, I thought to myself in the past week David attenborough has turned 100. Right. And correct me if I'm wrong, I don't see. I don't think he's a massive football fan. He's never declared an allegiance to everybody. And this is maybe the key to a very long life because cortisol levels when you love nature, you're out in the field just watching birds through binoculars and stroking gorillas. That is a calming, that's a calming situation to be in.

[Max Rushden]

Hang on. I'm not sure if stroking a gorilla is calm.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Well, have you seen Sir David Attenborough stroke a gorilla? Then you'll change your mind. If you see that, you'll change your mind. And they're calm. You know, they've been misrepresented gorillas. As for Spurs, I think it's that where you're trying to pick up a situation where Kinski obviously the situation in against Atletico Madrid under a different manager in a different scenario and things can work for players in different scenarios and you know in this particular situation that spurs are going to need their goalkeeper to play well because of the tension in that second half was crazy from actually spurs playing really well in the first half. And I thought actually they're going to probably going to take this game away from Leeds and if they score a second then I think Leeds are done. But once Leeds got that penalty, it was incredible the way the players just felt that feeling that I've seen in several games from Spurs. You think of the Brighton game, you think of Sunderland, you think of games in the last couple of months where they've played that way. Even though they're on this four match unbeaten run. It's not been as comfortable as you would have thought it would be bar the Villa game.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, I mean they do deflate like a balloon. You're right. The Sunderland game like it was pretty boring. And then that goal and the deflection, you could just see it fall out of the players then, then in injury time. Barry. We had this sort of Madison penalty claim. Spurs haven't had a penalty all season.

[Sid Lowe]

It.

[Max Rushden]

It's probably the correct call. I mean I just don't think I could have handled the stress of it. I wanted it but I couldn't. I was thinking, oh, in a way, I'm pleased I don't have to go through the pain of watching us take a penalty.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Yeah. When I first saw in real time, I thought it was a penalty. And the replay quickly disabused me the notion. I'm sure he got the ball a bit of the ball, not much of it, but enough of it for it not to be a penalty. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Just on the subject of Attenborough, I'm currently staring at a parakeet out the window. That's why I'm so calm. Nice.

[Max Rushden]

Thank you, Barry. We've talked about the challenge from Tell. It's such a silly challenge, isn't it? And it's just like everybody can see it coming. Like everyone except him. Like the entire spurs defense are just there going, don't do that. Perhaps the moment in the game that has sort of glossed over a little bit, lars, is the Richarlison chance at 1 nil. Because that does change things. And it's not a simple chance, but he gets it so off target. It's incredible, actually.

[Sid Lowe]

It's.

[Barry Glendenning]

This is like sofa analysis, but it's coming towards him and it's bouncing a little and it's like he's not quite ready for it. Like he's just a fraction of a hundredth of a section slow in getting his leg up. And I just kind of. Maybe a center forward should sniff that, that that's something that would happen. You get the sense that big Erling Hol have been prepared for that one by. By comparison. It's a slightly mean comparison, but richarlison is who he is. And I. I think, listen, in totality, if you look at the transfer fee they played paid for him as a Premier League center forward, he has not been a good addition to the club. But I do think fans, some at least have some patience with him because he's very like an emotionally extrovert player who clearly is trying very hard and fighting in a season where you want to see that because they're in trouble. I just wish he was a little bit better. Like if he could like finish those chances, that and he'd have real cult hero potential. I think on Matisse tell, I think you have to say he's a young forward who should maybe not be. You know, they will do weird things in their own box. That's not where they're used to being and they don't really have the sort of rules of the game there in their spine. But he was at Least like revenue neutral on the day because his goal was out of nothing as well. Like he created that on his own. So he created one goal out of nothing and then inexplicably gave away a penalty. So that's net zero on the matisstel there.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Well was quite lucky to be next year because he had that cross.

[Sid Lowe]

Yes.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Through his own box as well.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yes.

[Seb Hutchinson]

That was Kevin Dano got him out of jail there.

[Barry Glendenning]

Maybe he's one of those who shouldn't come back and help out. He should just kind of just stay up there.

[Max Rushden]

Matthews, Jonathan Wilson wrote it's still in their hands. Given the goal difference situation of winning, a draw would effectively guarantee it. But that's four points. And if spurs hadn't conceded the late equalizer to Brighton and if they'd held on here, they'd already have them. The worst thing they could do would be to dwell on such thoughts. To dwell on the fact they'd already be safe. Way to make me dwell on that, Wilson. Thank you. So Barry, spurs are 38 points from 36 games. And they have Chelsea away in Everton at home. Chelsea is three days after Chelsea playing the FA cup final. West Ham have 36 points. They go to Newcastle on Sunday at 5:30. Then they have Leeds at home. Deserbi did say we hope Leeds play like that against West Ham.

[Seb Hutchinson]

I think it is worth noting actually. That was a very honest performance from Leeds.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah.

[Seb Hutchinson]

If you didn't know which team was battling relegation in that match you would be struggle to guess.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, it's a good point. What do you think happens now?

[Seb Hutchinson]

Yeah, fair play to them. I have a feeling maybe it's just because I'm an old romantic. I think James Madison is going to have a major say in possibly keeping spurs up. You know his first appearance of the season last night got a big welcome from the spurs fan. Or that might be just because he replaced Matthias Tail who was therefore no longer able to do any damage. But yeah, I mean you're adamant spurs won't win against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. I just heard someone saying on the radio that Chelsea at the worst would probably still beat Spurs. And I think the spurs team is clearly mentally fragile. So maybe they won't if they have a mental block about winning at Stamford Bridge which clearly do. Or spurs do. Yeah, maybe they won't. I wouldn't be at all surprised if West Ham beat Newcastle and. Yeah, who knows after that.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, I mean Seb, it does. I mean obviously because West Ham play first and we've said this before, it's a great advantage if you win. And it is a great disadvantage if you don't. Which is a sort of. It seems like an obvious thing to say. Because it's an obvious thing to say, I guess. Newcastle away and maybe I'm just speaking with hope rather than anything else. It's Newcastle's last home game of the season.

[Barry Glendenning]

Right.

[Max Rushden]

You know, and those fans care and Eddie Howe cares because his job is under threat. And you would expect Newcastle to. To really go for it in this game even if they don't have a lot to play for.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Have you seen the play recently? Sorry?

[Lars Siffordsen]

Well, I was actually going to counter that and say they. They looked good in spells against Forest at times. But yeah, you do wonder if West Ham really go for it. And they're going to have to for everything. And I. I mean I genuinely believe if. If west ham win at St James's park, then Spurs are in big, big trouble. Because you think it's then Spurs, I mean to go to Stamford Bridge and win. I mean how many wins have spurs had at Stamford Bridge? I could probably. I can't remember any in my lifetime.

[Max Rushden]

So I think it's one in 20 years or something.

[Lars Siffordsen]

It's crazy. So. And Chelsea played well against Liverpool. They seem to have something better about the way they were playing. So who knows. But yeah, that seems to me for West Ham. An absolutely. Well, it's. It's the game for them. Because Leeds at home on the final day. Now we mentioned Leeds played well yesterday and you think they have nothing to play for. But the league is so tight that if Leeds had won yesterday, they could still still target a European place if

[Sid Lowe]

things go their way.

[Lars Siffordsen]

That's how ridiculous it is. So who knows with that game on Sunday. That feels to me to be one of the biggest games left that we have this season for sure. West ham going to St James's Park.

[Barry Glendenning]

The betting markets have West Ham at an impride probability of 82% to go down. I do not agree with that. I have to say that the 8218 split I can absolutely not get on board with at all in this situation. And I think this Chelsea game is super interesting, right, because you say Chelsea at their worst could beat Spurs. They do have I think one point in the last eight or last seven in the league. They've got one point Chelsea. And they're coming straight off a cup final which will either be like the day that sort of kind of redeems their season a little bit or it will be the final nail in the coffin of A total disaster with no redeemable features. Either way, squad is probably in a slightly odd headspace three days after that, I think it's fair to say one way or the other. But also, if this was the. I mean we have this discourse about Chelsea, like are they still Chelsea or are they just a collection of bits put together by sort of silly American hedge fund types? If there's any sense of the sort of the spirit of Chelsea football club still being alive, they will go 150% in this because this, this is between them too. There's been so much spite in terms of sheer nastiness. I feel like Chelsea spurs have almost kind of overtaken Chelsea Arsenal really as rivalries. There seems to be almost more of an unpleasant edge to those meetings. And if these Chelsea players want to show their fans that they have any affiliation with the club and the culture at all, relegating spurs is a very good place to start. So it'd be interesting to see that that is such a fascinating game and how it plays out.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, I mean, I suppose there is the point as well that these are two of the worst teams in the league and there is a chance that neither of them get any points for the rest of the season. Of course. Yeah, that is, you know, that's, that's probably why the odds are as they are, is expecting neither team to perhaps win either of their games. Just on West Ham, Jacob Steinberg writing in the paper that they're planning to contact the PGMOL about Callum Wilson's strike being ruled out. The issue as they see it is the inconsistency they accept. Their complaint is unlikely to get them anywhere. They're expected to ask for the audio between the ref, Chris Kavanagh and the Var Darren England. Kavanagh was advised by England to go to the pitch side monitor to review the incident. Lars, you just wanted to have a quick word on this. Two days later we did obviously talk about it a lot. Yes.

[Barry Glendenning]

Today let's, let's, let's get it right. Like there's not, not a lot of doubt that there's a foul on Raya there. And I think I'm prepared to be wrong on this, but I think if you look at the course of the season it is actually quite consistent. You've seen the referees allow a lot of grappling and holding in the box, but they haven't allowed people to interfere with the goalkeeper's arms. It has been allowed to shove the goalkeeper into the goal like that. That's been fine. But, but on the point of, like, actually impacting his arms, that's something they've not allowed before. So I think that's what they would point to. But I think now that the sort of.

[Max Rushden]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Is that true? Because I, you know, I was listening to something else yesterday saying, you know, there were two Arsenal goals, one Gabriel Emi Martinez, I think, and one someone on Bayern Deer in the Man United goal. Maybe there was slightly different.

[Sid Lowe]

Yeah, Bayern Deer was slightly different.

[Barry Glendenning]

Bayern Deer was shoved into the goal, essentially, and Gabriel was. His arm was up, but he wasn't, like, holding his arm the way it was. If we want to get really nitpicky with it, which maybe we shouldn't. My point was more that when the sort of initial fury has died down over this debate, I hope there is a discussion about, like, whether you're an Arsenal fan or not. I don't think people necessarily want the sport to look like this. I don't think we want every time there's a corner for there to be a massive melee and for the poor old referee to try to sort out what happened there. And I hope it moves towards a more, like, productive discussion of what that should actually look like instead, how you can police it more effectively. I would like to see the referees come into next season and be given mandate to actually clamp down on this. And this is where the much dreaded Var can be a useful tool, because if you watch it in real time, it's just heaving mass of limbs and men, and the referee could just blow up and say, this was a total mess. We have to check the tape. And then whichever the first clear foul is, you give that, and whether that's a penalty or a free kick the other way, then fine. And I think if you're actually strict on it for a few weeks and months and actually support the refs in face of the inevitable backlash when things go against the big clubs, I think it's possible to change this. But you got to remember we came into the season with Howard Webb talking about how we're going to have a clampdown on this and. And the clampdown didn't last. And I think that's what happens is there's a couple of controversial decisions, referees get told it's a physical game, football expects this to be allowed, and then we're back at this again, and hopefully next season they will try again.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, it does seem to be a Premier League problem, like. And Lars, you'll probably know better than the rest of us that the Bundesliga Serie A la Liga, this doesn't happen as much. I mean, of course people are pushing each other around, but this is not the same. It's not wrestling. It's not Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs Rowdy Roddy Piper every corner.

[Barry Glendenning]

No, no. And they are much stricter on it, which is why every time I've heard this described as a VAR problem, I don't get it. Because it's not a problem elsewhere where they have var. It's more a sense that they've decided to allow and to have a high bar for interference in the Premier League, which I think is just leading to these wrestling matches.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Something that's not been mentioned. Across the weekend. People have spoken about the length of time that VAR takes now in the stock. The room in Stockley Park. I've been there a few times and be guided through the process and have worked in TV trucks many a time and a lot of the time. The reason why it can take a long time is the angles that they have available now. They have somebody next to them who has a certain amount of angles for them to look through a particular point in time. When you're covering a TV game, you'll have one person who's maybe looking through maybe three, four angles at a time, and it's a room full of maybe eight people on a Premier League game who are all looking through these multiple angles. The referee has one person next to them showing them the angle. So sometimes it's a case of the referee saying, I need a different angle, I need to see. I'm talking about the var. I need a different angle to have a look at whether this is right or wrong. And in this case, that certainly would have been something because from different sides you see different things and that's that process that can take longer. So this idea of there being a time limit, unless they get more help in the number of angles they can have, or unless TV companies are able to push them the angles which then could lead to accusations of bias. Then it has to take the time it takes.

[Max Rushden]

Thank you, Seb. Chelsea have started to make contact with prospective managerial candidates. David Ornstein writing in Athletic that Xabi Alonso is emerging as a first choice. He remains open to the possibility. Lots of managers available and, you know, it'll be interesting to see who's managing who at the start of next season, won't it? Apparently Benfica interested in Marco Silva. If Jose Mourinho goes to Real Madrid and we'll talk about Jose perhaps going to Real Madrid with Sid in Part two.

[Sid Lowe]

What makes a leader worth following. What should you really care about in your job? As technology is changing so quickly, is it just gonna be about machines talking to other machines? I mean, should you quit your job and start something on your own, what would that take? What does success and risk look like

[Lars Siffordsen]

when we're all at the starting gate together?

[Sid Lowe]

These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler. Join us each week and subscribe at

[Lars Siffordsen]

your favorite podcast platform and YouTube.

[Sid Lowe]

We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together.

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[Max Rushden]

Part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. It's part two for Sid relegated from part one. Don't take it personally. Sid, how are you?

[Sid Lowe]

Well, I've just been relegated as well. Oviedo went down last night. Mathematically, you have. I've been relegated twice in one go. That's harsh.

[Max Rushden]

How was that season for Oviedo? Because you were very excited when they got promoted. But you know. Yeah, getting promoted season is always more fun than the getting relegated one.

[Sid Lowe]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. No, it hasn't been very good. We're, we're on our third manager. The second manager didn't win any games at all and also caused a bit of a kind of a social, what you call it, a social fault line, shall we say, with the fans? Because they, they sacked the guy that took them up and they brought back the guy that had walked out on them a year Earlier, So it didn't go down very well. Unlike Oviedo, who have gone down very well.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, let's go to the top, then. Barcelona won La Liga by beating Real Madrid at 2 nil. A lovely free kick from Marcus Rashford and a lovely goal from Ferran Torres. Great little back heel from Danny Olmo. And look, they've been comfortably the best side in the. In the league, haven't they?

[Sid Lowe]

Yeah, they have. I mean, and the way the Classico played out really was the way the season had played out, that Madrid really couldn't. Couldn't lay a glove on them. It felt relatively comfortable from Barcelona. They. They've not been quite as exciting this season as they were last year. They've not scored as many goals. They've tightened up a little bit at the back. I know that's hard to believe for those who watch them in Europe and look at that high line and we continue to talk about it, but they have been better at the back. They've conceded fewer goals than anyone else. They. There's been moments in the season when. When you've not been entirely sure about them, but the numbers are incredible. When they lost the Clasico to Real Madrid in October, Madrid were five points ahead of them. They're now 14 points behind them. Since that game, Barcelona have won 23 of 25 matches. They're on course for 100 points, which of course has only happened twice before. And the reason for that is they don't draw. You know, they win loads and loads of games. They don't draw. When they. When they don't win, they lose. And, And Flick, I think it's. It' of. It is about Flick and about the management of. Of a very young squad, about finding solutions where there weren't necessarily solutions or didn't appear to be. And yeah, they've been. They've been by far the best team in Spain this season.

[Max Rushden]

Does this make all the levers that they pulled worth it? Because I still don't quite understand. Sort of the levers have disappeared from my mind. It's like they're totally fine. Or will they still implode in five years?

[Sid Lowe]

No, I mean, look, so. So the levers. I mean, I think in a way, one of. One of the ways of looking at it is, is to see it in really simple terms, which is to say, what's the original lever that football club has is selling players. So Barcelona's decision was, well, you don't sell players because what that will do in the short term Obviously. But also maybe in the midterm and possibly even the long term, as it will devalue your team. You need to be continuing to compete, not just because that's the fundamental aim of a football club, but because long term, that's the way you continue to get big contracts, that's the way you continue to generate interest, that's the way that you continue to grow. And so they know that they took a risk, they know that they effectively mortgaged, you know, mortgaged against some of their future earnings and so on. But there was a feeling that this would work anyway. Now, obviously, you look at it in a financial situation is still problematic. They're still not on an even keel in terms of La Liga's financial fair play rules, what everyone here refers to as one to one. In other words, for every one euro you make, you can spend a euro. They've been in deficit against that. They think they'll get to that this summer, but they've said that before. Does this make the levers worthwhile? I think you're right. The question is whether, in the long term, this has a big impact on them. Their argument will be no, that this generates and expands into the future. Of course, they've. They're a reconstruction of the Campanu, which is now 60,000 and will eventually be 105,000, although that too obviously costs a huge amount of money. But you're right about the idea that it's out of people's minds, because right now it is out of people's minds.

[Max Rushden]

Of course. Marcus Rashford scored a brilliant free kick. He scored 14 and set up 14 this season, which is a pretty good return for him. What's been the vibe on his campaign?

[Sid Lowe]

It's. Well, Marcus Rashford's this amazing case of the kind of. Yeah. But I think if you look at him as what he is on the surface, which is a loan deal for a year, he's been brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And you know, those numbers are completely incontestable. You can't. You can't argue with those at all. The issue really for Barcelona now is would they like him to stay? Yes, they would. But this is a. This is a player that's got a 30 million euro purchase clause, which doesn't seem a huge amount from, I think, from Manchester United's point of view, but from Barcelona's point of view, it's quite a lot. Plus the fact that, of course, he would be a high wage earner. So this is the kind of deal that they look at it and think, yeah, our resources. And this goes back to what you were saying a minute ago about pulling the levers. Our resources are probably going to be pushed elsewhere. If we can get some sort of deal, then they would like him to stay, but probably not at that price. And so they're in this position where Rashford, it's curious because they signed him to essentially be the backup for all three of the forward positions. In truth, he's only really been the backup on the left hand side and that's been because Raphinha's been injured. So he's had quite a lot of games, although in the last three or four weeks he started to play on the right for the first time all season. He's contributed with key assists, he's contributed with key goals, including this one, but maybe not in the really, really biggest games. And there is still that slight sense of, how do I put this kind of a feeling that we'd like him to impose himself a bit more. We'd like him to be in the game a bit more, to drive games a bit more to do some of those things that Flick wants in terms of pressing, in terms of dragging the game, in terms of going at people. And when he goes beyond people, he's got space to run into. He's absolutely fantastic. I think I saw a statistic the other day that in terms of the recorded speeds of player this year, this year in Spain, he's the fastest player in La Liga. But there's just been those sort of moments when there's been a slight doubt, so much so that even when players have been injured and we've had not that much from Lewandowski this year, not that much from Rafinha this year. Numerically, I'm talking about here in terms of number of games they played, an injury to Lemin at the end. Even in those moments, there's been times when Flick has chosen other solutions rather than Rashford, who's the one that in theory would fit in for all three of them. And he hasn't played at center forward, despite the fact that we thought that he might be the one that would, you know, that would play if Lewandowski wasn't available, if Ran Torres wasn't available. So I think the feeling is that if he was to go now, which is, I suppose, a logical conclusion to a year's loan deal, it'd be like, wow, that really worked well. But it's maybe not quite enough for them to massively push out the boat to make the deal permanent.

[Max Rushden]

Right. And clearly, look, he's interesting to, to our audience, but he is not the entire Barcelona squad. Like, like we obviously we know how good Yamal is. Firstly, how good has he been this season and, and secondly, who else has been perform well for them that perhaps we people who don't watch their league again, we count haven't noticed?

[Sid Lowe]

Well, I mean, I think, I think the, the, the, the answer to the question, if you want a name that you go really, it's Eric Garcia. Eric Garcia has been fantastic in all sorts of different positions. At right back, at center back, at central midfield. He's played really, really well. And that's what I mean by unusual solutions. So you see the last weeks of the season, the center back is Gerard Martin. Gerard Martin was the backup left back and he's now the first choice centre back. Which I think obviously tells you something about the fact that Flick wasn't sure about his centre back partnerships. Inigo Martinez left in the summer. He was trying to find solutions there and he's ended up with Gerard Martin in that position. Joan Garcia, the goalkeeper who came from Espanyol across the city, has been very, very good indeed. And Lamine, I think Lemin's been the best player in Spain this year with one or two potential candidates ahead of him, but. Well, not ahead of him with him, but he's been the best player in Spain in terms of the level of performance and in terms of being consistently really good in that mid part of the season where they pulled away from Real Madrid, where they started to play well in, in Europe, where you were thinking, okay, this is maybe a really big season for them. The issue with Lamine is that at the start of the season he had. I've looked this up so many times and I still don't like it. The translation in English is a sportsman's hernia, like a groin issue, a recurring groin issue. And he was really struggling with that earlier in the season and he wasn't performing the way he liked. And he talked. He, he even. And he put out a tweet at one point saying, sorry, it wasn't a tweet, it's an Instagram post saying something like, I think the phrase was my inner turmoil or something like that. I can't remember the exact wording now. And he said something like, I would love to be the player that everyone wants me to be. And for the first time you saw, if you like, an expression of the pressure of the sense of underachievement, of the sense that he wasn't playing the way he wanted to. And this is in the late autumn, I think, early, early winter. But then from kind of December onwards until about. Until basically until he got injured three or four weeks ago, he's been absolutely brilliant. And yet, obviously it hasn't taken him to a Champions League final. It hasn't been the whole season, but he is, I think, the best player in Spain this season.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Is there any danger of him missing the World Cup? He's got a hamstring injury, hasn't he?

[Sid Lowe]

There is a danger. I don't think it's a very big danger. So he's got a hamstring injury. It was really interesting. I thought, that Barcelona, who as a club don't really have any need to do this, they released a statement and they said he's out for four to six weeks, but he will make the World Cup. A club doesn't necessarily need to say that about the national team. You know, that shouldn't be their priority or their concern. But I think that told you how important he was. Now, the trouble is, of course, that coming back for the World cup, and that would mean he's ready just about in time, is. How are we defining ready? Because this is the kind of injury that coming back from it. But coming back from it fully fit, fully quick, sharp, and with no risk of the injury recurring is a different issue. So Luis de la Fuente, the Spain manager, Barca and themselves, Lamine. There's been no real sense that. That this is a disaster, he's not going to get there. But there is that nagging doubt that says, is he going to get there fully fit? Now, Spain's first two games are Saudi Arabia and Cape Verde. And I think there's a feeling that, you know, maybe he doesn't play the first game, maybe he gets some minutes in the second, and maybe he gets a good chunk of minutes in a third game against Uruguay in the group, and then plays for the rest of the tournament. Because, you know, I was saying he was the best player for Barcelona. He's. He's Spain's best player. I mean, I genuinely think there have been periods this year, say from around about December till about April, that I watch him play and thought, yeah, he might well be the best player in the world.

[Barry Glendenning]

This is a guy who's in 26 starts, he's put up 16 goals and 12 and 11 assists, and he is 18. Any sense that he's not doing it is mad. Like, it's still an absolutely incredible contribution, right?

[Sid Lowe]

Yeah, absolutely is. And. And, you know, as I say, that was him saying that. And early in the season when he was struggling with that groin issue, there was, there was a feeling that he wasn't at his best level of. I don't know if, you know, you remember the Classico back in October, there was a lot of that was thrown back at him saying, you know, you talk too much, then Real Madrid come and beat you and you, you know, you've really got to keep your mouth shut. And there was a little bit. Now everything that happens in Spain, you have to see, I think sometimes through the divide of Madrid and Barcelona and where the media is leaning and where people are leaning and, and how that conditions the way that they see things. But what happened, I think in, in the autumn was that Lamina Mal went from being Spain's boy to being only one half of Spain's boy, if you see what I mean. And I think that played a part as well. But also he wasn't playing that brilliantly. But then he came back and did. There was a. Earlier in the season, Lamina Mar was celebrating goals by crowning himself and there was this real feeling that you thought, wow, he's amazing, this 18 year old kid who, far from being worried about the pressure, is kind of saying, ah, bring it on, I want this. You know, there's a little touch of cockiness, a little touch of, a touch of self belief that says, I want this. And yet then those subsequent Instagram posts, I think were a kind of a first glimpse of that. You know, maybe there's a realization that this isn't always fun, that this isn't always great. And then he came back a quieter version of him, at least in terms of his public pronouncements and stuff. Fewer interviews, kind of fewer, less exposure for him. And his performance level was amazing, as you say. Yeah, this is the thing we keep coming back to. He's still only 18 and he has, there's no doubt about it, particularly with Rafinha out injured. And I think Raphinha was probably the best player in Spain last season. Even with Lamine and Pedri playing fantastic seasons with Raphinha injured, he's carried Barcelona in terms of the weight of. What would you call it, attacking productivity. You know, everything he does, does, scoring some of the goals out of nothing, scoring the same Lamina Mile goal over and over again, cutting his side, curled into the top corner and looking at times like you actually can't stop him. People are putting three or four people on him and still not able to stop him. And then this injury at the end of season, I think Think shouldn't, but inevitably does kind of just take a little bit of the edge off his season. But as I say, I think best player in Spain.

[Max Rushden]

You talk about which. Which way, you know, people are leaning. Regards. You know, Yamal, we don't know exactly how Chameleni was leaning on Valverde, do we? We don't have the. The official line denied they came to blows and Valverde went to hospital because he accidentally hit a table. Like, it's an extraordinary story, isn't it?

[Sid Lowe]

And it really is. And so much of Valverde's statement was kind of like you could sort of pick through it and go, so, nope, nope, nope. Neither of us hit each other. It wasn't a big deal, which is why you've just been fined half a million euros each. Now, obviously, look, there will be lots of people saying, well, half a million euros for footballers who are earning 20 million euros is not that big a deal. But actually, even then, it's a lot of money. And it was about Madrid saying, this isn't acceptable. I think, obviously the other thing is, it's in a. It's in the context of a season of collapse and dressing room division and, And. And confrontations and problems. And I think what that does is it says to you that this is the culmination of that, and this is also. It's a. Partly a product of their defeats, because obviously that brings all this stuff to the surface, but it's partly an explanation for why the defeats have happened. You know, that this is broken and, and it has been. I. I'm struggling to think of an example of anything like this in Realm just Time. The only one I can come up with is when Graveson laid into Robinho in a training session and then Graveson afterwards. And I think, again, this sort of speaks to that idea of dressing room dynamics and, and different attitudes towards, I suppose towards commitment and professionalism, so on. I remember Graveson describing some of his players as acting like shits. And. And I think there's. There's. There's a degree of that in this, and it's not good. And Real Madrid is genuinely a mess. And I don't remember a crisis quite like this one. Two years in a row without winning a major trophy. A sense that they can't fit together, the key players. There's a headline and actually it did the rounds again on Twitter this morning, but it's still worth picking up because I think it's funny and also because I think it says something about kind of expectation and reality, and it was after they won the super cup, the European Super Cup, Mbappe had just arrived. So they were European champions, they just won the Super Cup. And there's a photograph of. Of Bellingham, Vinicius and Mbappe. And actually, here's the kicker. It was actually a photograph of Bellingham, Vinicius, Mbappe and Rodrigo. But they took Rodrigo out the photograph, they cut it so it was the three of them. And they put bmv, BMW in Spanish, they always use the V, Bellingham, Bape, Vinicius. And it said what was. I think the. I think the headline was unprecedented dominance, which was talking about what Madrid had been winning with all the European cups. But obviously what he was really doing was projecting what's going to happen now. The European champions have bought Mbappe. Wow. They're going to be unstoppable. And the opposite has happened. And obviously there's a very. It's a bit facile, it's a bit simplistic, but of course a lot of people have gone, what's the big elements that's changed from being a European cup winner to now being a team that doesn't win anything and the team that that player left is now winning it all. Could it be that all of this is Kylian's fault?

[Max Rushden]

Let's talk about that, though, because Philippe was talking about the petition yesterday and

[Sid Lowe]

it's amazing, isn't it? I mean, obviously online petitions, you know, you can get signatures for just about anything. Well, that was it.

[Max Rushden]

He was actually. Because I thought, well, it's obviously just bullshit and it's stupid. But Philippe was saying lots of people are taking it seriously and it's actually a more serious issue than I had given it credence for. I don't know what you think.

[Sid Lowe]

I mean, look, I don't know how seriously I take a petition, but still, 32 million people is a lot of people. How many of those are bots? Obviously, I don't know how much of it is kind of silly and people go, hey, I voted to get rid of Mbappe. And it's sort of. Then it's forgotten about and it doesn't really mean much, I think, to sign an online petition, but what it does do is it tells you something about an undercurrent. And, well, I'm going to completely contradict myself here now. It tells you something about an undercurrent, but also tells you something on a very superficial level, which is, ah, Mbappe's fault. And as I say, it is simplistic, it is superficial. There is this kind of meme now of Mbappe as the dictator who comes in and orders everyone around and it ruins everything. And this is now a mess because of him, because he, and he does symbolize some of the problems they've got, which isn't the same as saying he's responsible for them. But there's no doubt that Real Madrid have struggled to find a way to get him and Vinicius to function well together. It's not lost on anyone that some of their better performances have been with one or the other missing. It's not been lost on anyone. And actually, Bellingham said this, I think, in the press conference. I think before the Bayern game, he actually admitted that, you know, his role had changed, that he had partly been been a victim of his apparent versatility, which is possibly not quite as versatile as we thought. So Bellingham's first season, when he's amazing, he's playing off the front, he's allowed to arrive into the area, scoring lots of goals, then he's got to shift because of Mbappe. Then Mbappe and Vinicius are trying to find a place for them, and obviously Bellingham had the injury with a shoulder and didn't play huge amount and, and Bellingham hasn't really refound his place since then. And I think there is without any doubt a feeling that what Mbappe has done is change the environment or the ecosystem. If nothing else.

[Max Rushden]

Words like broken, confrontation, problems, crisis, acting like shit. Is Jose Mourinho the answer right?

[Sid Lowe]

Well, I, I, I. Shall I be really cynical here and read between the lines and be conspiratorial as well, but I must admit when, when these. Because, you know, a big part of Real Madrid's concern, and I actually think possibly too big a part of it, is not so much what happened as how did this get out and why did this get out and who is, who is leaking stuff. Now, obviously, part of the answer to that is lots of people are leaking lots of things. It's not always a single person. It's very rarely a single person. And obviously, you know, you still had this fight. Whether it's got out or not is another issue. But it does matter that it gets out, and it does matter that the story is told, because that tells you something about the way dynamics play out publicly, the way that they're are more than just players. There's kind of interest groups behind them. There's people, if you like, fighting a cause sometimes without even the cause knowing that they're fighting it for them, and it doesn't always help Them and I must admit. So here comes the cynical bit. I did sort of think this and think who would most benefit from all this stuff coming out? Would it be a Portuguese man who is seen as the guy that comes in and sorts this shit out? And don't worry, I'll deal with it. And we need an iron fist. And, and actually, for what it's worth, I'm not entirely sure that Mourinho is the iron fist. I think the thing about Mourinho is that. I'm sure we've talked about this before, Max, right? At some level, Florentino Perez, the president of Real Madrid, has always wanted Mourinho back. Now this is about the only manager he's ever really believed in. This is a president who thinks that managers are someone you've got to put there, but you'd really rather do without them, that they all think they're more important than they really are. That this is about the players. The only manager that he's really properly warm to, properly, and I include Zidane and Ancelotti in this, despite the success they had, has been Mourinho. And there's a contradiction there because at heart what he wants is someone to sort out these, you know, these, these, these jumped up kids, but he also actually thinks it is about the kids. You know, there is only one Vinicius, but there's hundreds of managers out there. There's only one Mbappe, but I can get another guy to run the team. That obviously is part of the cultural problem around it. But there is no guy quite like Mourinho, at least from the point of view of the president.

[Max Rushden]

Let's talk about Real Valcano getting to the Conference League final because you tweeted something to the effect of this is the best thing ever or something.

[Sid Lowe]

It is not a million miles off being one of the best things that's ever happened. I mean, apart from Oviedo going up with Santi Catholic and having now just been gone down again. Maybe not. This is really amazing. Now, obviously, look, should I do the. Should I do the. I'll do the party poop a bit first. It's not that amazing in that a Spanish team in the Conference League might expect to get to the final because, you know, you're talking about a Spanish team and if you go through the teams that Rayo Vallecano have played, this isn't an absolute miracle. Although I did think, you know, in terms of resources and stuff, they might not get through against Strasbourg. But what Rayo are, there's a risk of me giving you the really kind of sweetless and light sort of Hollywood film version of this. But Rayo are, if you like, sort of the ultimate expression of the neighborhood team, the working class neighborhood team. Not just in the neighborhood, but kind of born of the neighborhood with a. With a consciously left wing, consciously populist perspective of themselves. With a stadium that's only got three sides, it's got flats overlooking the other side. That's an absolute basket case of a club that's got an owner that the fans can't bear, that does so many things wrong. Like the best example of this, I think, is when they played. Now, I can't remember which of the two Polish. They played two Polish teams in the group and I can't remember which one it was. So apologies. But anyway, the kit man of the opposition team turned up at the stadium the night before and did a video of him setting up the dressing room. And basically the video was him walking around going, oh, look, we've got one coat hanger. Oh look, the lights don't work. Oh, look, there's a plastic chair here. Isn't that great? Thanks very much. Opens a cupboard and there's a pile of towels. Oh, here's the towels they left us. And it looks like your granny's airing cupboard. And he's opened it and there's like 15 towels of different colors that are now more cardboard than they are cotton. You know, it's just. And you're sort of looking at this, and this is basically the kit man of a Polish club going, what the absolute is this? And you know, it's a stadium where the water doesn't run properly in the taps, that's crumbling, that's falling down, where the players and the fans can't quite believe what's being done at institutional level, where there's problems at the training ground, where they've had to train elsewhere because the training ground pitch isn't in good enough condition for them to train on. Where the game against Rail Oviedo, for example, was canceled because they relayed the pitch and they decided to do it. I think it was eight days before the game and they wondered why it hadn't taken yet. It's just this extraordinary. I mean, it's a bit like the right. It's, to use another cliche, it's the producers. Let's see if we can do something that will absolutely bomb. And it turns out they're in the

[Max Rushden]

final because they've got some good players,

[Sid Lowe]

they've got a great attitude. And I think actually there is a risk of overplaying this, but I think that in a way, there is this kind of collective togetherness that goes in the face of adversity, which almost helps them. They've got a brilliant manager who I think understands, manages the players really well, has a fantastically kind of empathetic approach to things. Inigo Martinez, who was due to be Antoni Edoard's number two at Bournemouth, but, but, but didn't get the work permit, so he became the manager at Rai Vicano. And they're. They're, they're brilliant. They're absolutely brilliant.

[Lars Siffordsen]

It's.

[Sid Lowe]

It's properly. This properly shouldn't happen. It absolutely shouldn't happen. It is. Let's do the Hollywood thing. It is. Tiny little league team from a marginal neighborhood in a shitty city somewhere goes and plays the World Series.

[Max Rushden]

Perfect. Thank you, Sid. Lovely stuff.

[Sid Lowe]

Pleasure. Cheerio, Sid.

[Max Rushden]

Low out in Spain there. And that'll do for part two. Part three. We'll do the championship playoff.

[Barry Glendenning]

Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy fanfellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the smash daddy.

[Barry Glendenning]

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

That's right.

[Max Rushden]

Hei.

[Sid Lowe]

Hei.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reaction to. To every single chapter.

[Barry Glendenning]

And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next.

[Sid Lowe]

Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong. News flash.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Max Rushden]

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So Hull won two nil at Millwall. Seb this was a really good game. I mean both sides had real spells of pressure but ultimately it is Hull probably the least expected of the four who get to Wembley.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Yeah. Side who got through into the playoff places on the final day, a dramatic final day. I think that the championship was so tight this season. Did a fair few games in it. I mean I really feel for Millwall. But we'll talk about Hull first. I thought their second half was fantastic because the game felt tetchy and tight in the first half. You weren't sure. I think Millwall felt a bit pressure playing at home. They'd had a good result away. They were frustrated about the disallowed Leonard goal from the first match. It was a tense scenario. But I just thought Hull played with affluency. They exploited Milwauke's weaknesses in the second half when Doughty came on, he didn't seem to be at the pace of the game. They took full advantage and I. It's funny with Hull because they had a situation a couple of seasons back where they reached the playoffs. They sacked Liam Rosenha, then they were in the relegation battle, they dropped off the pace and now they're in a position where they could return to the Premier League, which is a fantastic achievement. And Archer thought in the game they, they played that particular second half. When I look at a side who, when you go away from in the second leg, you do have a freedom. And when you play it at the den, there's that area behind the goal which is reserved completely for away fans. And they tend to block out the top, the bottom tier of that stand for obvious reasons and everybody's sort of pushed into the top. But you could hear those whole city fans, the whole game and they really pushed the team on. And Bellumi who scored the goal, his father was a great Algerian player. I mean, I heard somebody say the other day, I can't remember which Algerian player it was, might mean Reinheit Nori and he was saying that Mahrez is the greatest Algerian player of all time. Algeria went to two World Cups under Him they were very unfortunate not to go further in 82 for the whole situation with Austria and West Germany. To pass that on, it was a great moment for reason he's not actually scored that many goals this season. But that was by far his most important, a great finish. And I was pleased for a few hole players in that situation. But I did feel desperately sorry for Millwall because I think there's a lot of. There's been this sense that a lot of people don't want them to come up for the stereotypes, but actually a lot of people do want them to go up because there's that freshness. It's a new team in the Premier League. It's like when Luton came up, people had a sense of, oh, this is great, this is what we want. And I think football fans in general like a freshness. They like to see new winners of things. They like to see how a team will cope. And I know a few Millwall fans and they were the worry of if we go up, would we get battered? But at the same time, there's that joy of, well, we'll see spurs or West Ham go down and we'll change places with them and it's a win, win situation because if we stay and spurs come down, it's still great as well.

[Barry Glendenning]

Seb, I was second screening this and having not really watched the championship this year, I looked up some stats ahead, as I do, and I noticed with some glee that Mill Wall have been more or less the team you'd expect them to be like. They had the second lowest pass complete ratio in the league this season, but won the most aerial duels. So I was like, yeah, all right, I know what I'm getting here. But as much as I was mainly watching Spurs, I did watch a bit of this and it wasn't that game at all really. I thought they were kind of. Was that because Hull were really clever in the way they approached it because they kind of forced Millwall into a situation where they had to pass the ball around a lot and try to open the lock, which they didn't seem comfortable doing, really.

[Lars Siffordsen]

I definitely think they caught Millwall by surprise in the second half. Millwall, of course the stats will lean that way, but I mean, Femi Aziz has been a standout at times, although not always consistent. They have had a strong core and they've been relatively resolute and nicked games here and there and been a tough side to beat. I just think Hull, just the start of that second half, they just went at them and they never really recovered from that. And the moment they went behind hole being a counter attacking team, that situation just suited them perfectly. Mill have been batting above where they should be. You know, they. They've been punching above their weight for sure. I mean, to miss out an agonizing way really on that last day, having felt that maybe we could squeeze over the line did hurt them. But I would say they've been more than just that. What the stats show for sure.

[Seb Hutchinson]

I think hall caught them by surprise because they're set up in a different formation to the first leg, five at the back. But I mean, hall have massively punched above their weight this season. They were among the favorites to be relegated from championship. They started the season with a transfer ban for three windows. So they haven't been able to pay a transfer fee or a loan fee for anyone this season. They brought in Ollie McBurney, Semia J, Paddy McNair, Joe Gelhart, Lundstrom, Lewis Kumas, Ryan Giles, all came in on loans or freebies. And for them to be in the playoff final is. Is quite remarkable.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, that is. That is extraordinary to. To have a transfer embargo, isn't it?

[Seb Hutchinson]

So the third leg of the transfer bar go has been suspended. So if they do get promoted, they will be able to sign players.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, that was a great goal from Bellumi. He does really well as well to. To nick the ball off the Millwall center back and then set up the winner as well for. For Joe Gelhart and their manager, Sergey Yakurovic, who I didn't know a lot about, played for Bosnia as a full international, but also played Croatia vets and Croatia futsal vets. And he said, this is maybe the biggest achievement in my life, my football career. Okay, I won some titles. I had until now a successful career, but in these circumstances to get to the final. I'm very proud of everyone here at the club. And like you say, Seb, they stayed up on goal difference last year. Like that is a. That is an amazing turnaround.

[Lars Siffordsen]

I think the championship's been like that this season. And I wonder, you know, we spoke about if spurs or West Ham go down and they do lose a few key players, this idea that they all bounce back up. I think we've seen this season that if you don't get it right, you could be in real problems. I think Ipswich have sort of stumbled their way to promotion. Weirdly, Southampton have had this late run and Leicester City have gone down. So I mean, it's crazy. That's what's made the championship so Engaging at times this season.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, they've been on that great run. Southampton, obviously, we all know how and I don't know yet. They, you know, then they were lucky at Middlesbrough because they had so many chances in that game, but it is goalless. So, yeah, that game happens tonight. Seb, how do you see it?

[Seb Hutchinson]

Through a newspaper with Square?

[Lars Siffordsen]

Yeah. If you'd asked me three months ago, I would have said Middlesbrough nailed on. I think the flow's been with Southampton in recent weeks and I do sort of see them getting through, which again would be Shaver Borough because they've played some great football at times. And you do wonder if they'll be able to hold on to important players if they start. That's the same case with Millwood Karama, the fullback who can play center back, who's been fantastic for them. That's always the worry.

[Max Rushden]

But I wonder if, Seb, you wonder if the EFL are just desperately hoping that middles will win tonight so they don't have to do anything, you know, because Southampton get through, then Middlesbrough will be, you know, like rightly aggrieved and we'll say, well, hang on. And then you've got until the playoff final if you want to make a serious sanction on Southampton if they are found guilty.

[Lars Siffordsen]

But what if they win, Max? What if they then win the playoff final? Then you have whole city complaining about it. You'll have other stars at Rex who missed out. This is the thing, when you have these things hanging over clubs, you just feel like, can we just pause and get it sorted? And then before we kick on again,

[Barry Glendenning]

everyone's making these sort of football content shows these days and I feel like that genre has gone a little stale. Maybe the court drama following Spygate could be the shot in the arm this needs. It could be like, like a few good fullbacks, you know, it will be like a very tense, tense courtroom drama.

[Max Rushden]

You can't handle the truth, that kind of thing.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, absolutely not.

[Max Rushden]

Well, I mean, hopefully it's a shorter series than the Man City one, which obviously is yet to be broadcast. Isn't it? Susie Rack writing in the paper yesterday that Arsenal England's Beth Mead's going to leave the club after her contract expires this summer. 265 appearances, 86 goals, winning the WSL 3 League Cups, the Champions League and the Champions Cup. Seb, you'd have seen her a lot in commentary for the Lionesses, so it'd be fascinating to see where she goes.

[Lars Siffordsen]

I mean, I've seen her play for Arsenal I saw when she was at Sunderland, she was a great young prospect then, but when she moved to Arsenal, it moved her career up to the next level. Run her up in the Ballon d'. Or, she will leave Arsenal as a legend. The reason why she's leaving, essentially one of the main reasons why you can feel that Arsenal are going to go in a different direction this summer. They're going to try and bring in younger players. They're always a club that attract, that can attract the very best. Beth Mead's been a situation where when she came to Arsenal, she almost had to move out to a wide area and learn that position and she became one of the best around in that position. She's a really clever player. She creates as well as she scores. She's got more over 50 WSL goals and assists, which is the only player to be in that sort of situation. And her season I think is 21, 22. She was fantastic for Arsenal, got into double figures for assists and goals and won the Euro Euros with England and then had a bad injury. She lost her mother and it's been difficult for her since. She's come back to nail down her England place and I think she's looking ahead now to the World cup next year and thinking I need to play regularly. Manchester City feels like the natural move for her because her partners there, Viviana Midemar, who was an Arsenal legend as well, I would say, and. And that seems natural. No, London City lionesses would be interested as well with their ambitious project. It feels the right time. She's 31 and she'll want to have a crack at that World Cup. She missed the last one through injury, so I think for all parties it sort of works. And she'll be remembered within Arsenal circles for a long time. She provided the assist that led to them winning the Champions League last season.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah. More on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly out later. Now there's a great long interview in the paper and on the website with James Wallace who was interviewed. Nigel Martin, who is getting the chance to represent his country in more than one sport as he's been selected to play for England's over 60s Lions cricket team. So it is the over 60s national team, second 11. He'll get his red cap on Friday for the game against Scotland. If he makes it into the first team, he'll get the blue cap and be able to call himself a dual international. He says it's a real honor to be selected. I was really impressed at the trial at Loughborough a few weeks ago. These guys are super fit, really strong cricketers. No doddery old men or anything like that. He said, I'd like to play in a World cup or a Gray Ashes, as it's called. You never know, anything could happen. But fair play to Nigel Martin for, you know, carrying on. I don't know. I mean, I should read the interview. I don't know if he's a batsman or. I presume he's a wicket keeper, right? I mean, that would be the natural place for Nigel Martin to take.

[Seb Hutchinson]

He's a batsman.

[Max Rushden]

Batsman.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Ah, Wiki.

[Max Rushden]

Keeper, batsman, wicketkeeper, batsman. Yeah. Okay, that's good. Do you think he just uses old. An old pair of Sandicos, says these will do. Whacks him on and gets behind the stumps. But, yeah, good luck to Nigel Martin.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Sorry, Max. I've just seen Barry's drop the Parakeet into the group chat and my cortisol levels have just disappeared below the threshold. I feel absolutely fantastic right now.

[Max Rushden]

That is lovely. Beautiful shot, Barry. Good to see you're concentrating.

[Barry Glendenning]

And it's a special treat for people watching the YouTube video is that you can also see Barry taking that photo on the stream.

[Max Rushden]

I mean, surely if the YouTube people are up to anything, we can put the picture of the parakeet onto the screen so everyone can join in. And that's a great way of driving people towards our YouTube and our Instagram it as well and get some more followers. That'll do for today. Thank you, Barry.

[Seb Hutchinson]

Thank you.

[Max Rushden]

Cheers, Seb.

[Lars Siffordsen]

Thank you, Max.

[Max Rushden]

Thank you, Lars.

[Barry Glendenning]

Thank you, Max.

[Max Rushden]

Football Weekly is produced by Taya Papula. Our executive producer is Joel Grove. We'll be back on Thursday.

[Sid Lowe]

This is the Guardian.

[Barry Glendenning]

Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident love of all things Sanderson.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.

[Barry Glendenning]

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

That's right.

[Sid Lowe]

Hey. Hey.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.

[Barry Glendenning]

And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next.

[Sid Lowe]

Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong. News flash.

[Stephen (Fantasy Fan Fellows)]

I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan Fellows wherever you get your podcasts. Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold Every day, data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam, call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a VPN in Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at Aura. Com Safety. Protect yourself now at Aura Com Safety.