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Football Weekly
Spurs stun Manchester City again and crisis already at West Ham? – Football Weekly
01:02:00
Max Rushden is joined by Dan Bardell, Nedum Onuoha and Sam Dalling as Spurs start their season with back-to-back wins and West Ham are thrashed at home by Chelsea
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- [00:00]
Nedum Onuoha
This is the Guardian.
- [00:10]
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- [00:51]
Barry Glendenning
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. So, last week's title winners Manchester City are now sensationally out of the race after a comprehensive 20 defeat at home to spurs, who were good all over the pitch for almost all of the game. Weird. Meanwhile, the biggest crisis, Klaxon loomed over Graham Potter, hammered 51 at home by Chelsea West Ham fans streaming out well before the final whistle. Ah, the Premier League is back. Although Nuno seems the most likely to be in voice note territory. How on earth could Forest let go their best manager? Maybe since Brian Clough. Two words that rhyme with Bevangelos Farinakis, perhaps. Arsenal, Hammer, Leeds. Some big positives, including bringing on someone born in 2009, but injuries to Saka and Odegaard. Barry relegated. Everton christened their new stadium with a win. Brentford and Bournemouth get their first wins of the season, while Villa, Manchester United, Fulham, Brighton and Wolves all remain winless. We'll do all that, which is quite a lot. Answer your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today. Nada. Manouha.
- [01:49]
Sam Dalling
Hello.
- [01:49]
Nedum Onuoha
Hello, sir.
- [01:50]
Barry Glendenning
Hello. Dan Bardell.
- [01:51]
Dan Bardell
Hello, Max.
- [01:52]
Barry Glendenning
And welcome. Sam Dalling.
- [01:53]
Sam Dalling
Hello, Max.
- [01:54]
Barry Glendenning
Rob writes Deer Football Weekly. As has been mentioned by several POD contributors, Barry over recent months, Thomas Frank famously starts slowly in his new job. Is Max excited for when he really gets going at Spurs? Yeah. Let's start the Etihad then, because we gave the title to City last week and now they don't have it anymore after being comprehensively. Would you say Nadam. Comprehensively beaten by Tottenham?
- [02:16]
Nedum Onuoha
Ooh, good question. Asking the former man, City player and fan if they were comprehensively beaten.
- [02:24]
Barry Glendenning
You've got to be honest with the listeners and with yourself.
- [02:26]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah. This is where I'm allegedly paid to be impartial, isn't it? I was very, very impressed by spurs and to be honest, before going into the game, I thought if spurs didn't have Kulisiewski playing, City might be all right. You know, I'll be. That's What I thought, because Kulusevsky is the one that enjoys playing against City more than any other player I think through history. But then spurs started and they played really well. I think the way that they were very much on the front foot for the vast majority of the game. And obviously there were times when they had to withhold a bit of pressure from City and so on and some opportunities which City had. But it's impressive that they can go there, play in that manner and look so good and feel so comfortable in doing it. So I wouldn't necessarily say comprehensively outplayed as such, but as they walk off the pitch, they know that they deserve that result based on the moments that they had and the ones that limited City from getting. I think City will be disappointed to have not scored. But yes, it's another beautiful day at the Etihad for Spurs. You know, seems to be an annual thing at the moment, taking back to the old days when they used to get slapped around by City, but those days are gone now. I think that's six goals in a row now. Is it to in without City scoring against him in the last two games?
- [03:26]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I mean, suppose that's the thing. Yeah, well, no, that was 4,0 last year. But you know, spurs can beat City and be good and have bad seasons. Every Tottenham fan is, is thinking that.
- [03:36]
Nedum Onuoha
It'S, it's a tough, it's a tough read. And I'll be honest with you, this time of the season I find the hardest to sort of be media because there's the emotional side, then there's the like logical side. And I try so hard to not overreact. I try so, so hard. But sometimes you got to do it both ways. But I was impressed with spurs and given the fact of how they played last week at home to Burnley. So there's, you know, that's the range, isn't it? How do you perform against like teams who you expect to be near the bottom? How do you perform against teams who are going to work near the top? And that's two pretty consistent showings so far. And what I like as well from Thomas Frank's perspective is that he made changes for both games to suit the needs of the match itself. So yeah, they, they look the spurs are all right. You know, I thought after the, the super cup, all that talk of, in fact, speaking with Kate Mason, legend, that is Kate Mason, we were talking about the legend of being Spursy and how it disappeared, but we noticed it disappeared over time. Not in the space of games because they went from winning the Europa League to then losing the super cup and there was no game in between really, that didn't. That took away that Spursy title. But I think Thomas Frank spurs might be different in the league, I guess.
- [04:40]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I mean the midfield, Sam was, was really good. Now Benteko Palina and Pape Sar were brilliant in this game.
- [04:48]
Sam Dalling
Yeah, they were. And I think, I mean that is critical. It's what they missed a lot last year as well. I know we talked about the flying fullbacks and Angie's style and Ange balls. We don't need to go back over that. But they missed that solidity in midfield and Benson Kerr sort of fell away from being the player he was that everyone expected him to be a couple of years ago. So look, it was just a brilliant performance. That is to misquote Thomas Frank. I mean that is an operation that does go well. The patient did not die up at the Etihad. I mean you could say, well they won their 4 nil last year under Ange so in theory it's not as good. But yeah, it was a superb display and just so impressed and I hope. Well, we'll see, isn't it? It's so early to know whether that will continue. I remember a couple of years ago under Ange they were top and everyone was talking them title contenders. But I like Frank, he's coming out with some good lines, talking, falling in love with club and wants players who want to play for the club as well, which I think is a really good thing in a manager. But yeah, yeah, a good result for Spurs.
- [05:50]
Barry Glendenning
And actually, you know, so much talked about last week about not getting as a Dan and the only player, well, they brought in two players, right, that are making Paolinha and Kudas and Kudas is running with the ball and actually his defensive work just all round he is, he's playing like the Kudas that we saw I think two years ago at West Ham and it makes such a difference.
- [06:10]
Dan Bardell
Yeah, I think Nedham's right to call out the fact that, you know, there's no Kulescu, there's no Madison. So everyone's asking, well, where's Spurs's creativity going to come from? Actually they didn't win that game with creativity that they won that game with energy and pressing and in the first few games, obviously in Spurs, Kudis has been a massive part of that. He's a fun player to watch on the ball but like you say, he's worked very, very hard as well. And spurs did, did a great Job in two clean sheets as well. But it's not just stemming from the defense, it's stemming from, from the whole team and the way Thomas has set them up across the two games as well. I wondered how would we judge where spurs are at after they beat Burnley as well? But to beat Man City beat Burnley, I've got concerns about Manchester City still. I don't think beating Wolves last week was the true barometer of perhaps where City are at, because I think Wolves are going to be pathetic by and large this season. But I've got to say spurs have been really, really impressive. Thomas Frank is such a good manager, such a likable manager and it's a great start to the season for them.
- [07:11]
Barry Glendenning
City were great against Wolves, Nadam and you know, Tijani Reinders was player of the year after that game. It's now a total fraud after this one. Haaland missed chances. Trafford is really interesting actually. Tombo says I'd appreciate a defender's view from Nadim on Spurs second goal. More on the setup at the goal kick than the ensuing fiasco. Three players in your own six yard box feels like it's asking for trouble. And Trafford actually got more and more nervous as the game went on, I thought.
- [07:37]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah, and this is, this is a really interesting point because I think you can almost split yourself into two camps here. There's the camp which features a lot of older players saying, why are you playing the ball short in general, but then there's the camp that sort of pushed back a little bit because it's the intent versus the execution. And I think there's a really good camera shot from behind Trafford's goal when he tries to play the ball to Nico and fundamentally plays it to the wrong side. Like if he plays it to Nico Gonzalez is like left foot. Then it changes the dynamic of the press from, from perhaps Sar, because SAR ends up being the one who almost has the ball played to him. But what I would say, like for James Trafford, and to be fair, lots of other people now, like you get a chance to appreciate how good Edison is because some of the time when there'd be that many players in and around that space, this is when you see Edison play like a longer ball that almost sets someone through on the other side for the City forwards. And I think Trafford will probably get that in time. But I think playing for the likes of Man City and so on, you're not really afforded time based on the mistakes that you make because every point in itself is so crucial. So I think For Trafford, he's tried to do the right thing. And I thought, in fairness, in the first game against Wolves, I thought he did do well. But as Dan's saying, maybe Wolves are going to be in the pits of hell this year. Who knows? But, yeah, I think it's an execution standpoint and I think seeing someone like Edison Ortegas, those who've done it before, like, forever, we think whether someone thinks about what they can save like, or the general passing, they don't really give tons of opportunities like that up when they're playing in their normal flow. And I don't think they get worse in games either. And some of that will probably come with experience because for James, this is the biggest platform that he's probably seen so far.
- [09:08]
Barry Glendenning
The interesting thing, Sam, is, you know, by all accounts, City have agreed personal terms with Donna Rumer. I mean, you can agree personal terms and not get the player. We've, we've established that. But that is interesting because he's sort of known as this unbelievable shot stopper, but not, not great with his feet.
- [09:21]
Sam Dalling
Yeah. And I wondered the unsettling effect that might have on James Trafford, because by all accounts, he was basically set to go to Newcastle. Like, people around him were saying that's where he's going. And they had a bid accepted and Manchester City basically had this right to match. They came in and took him back and he'd said he's not short of confidence. James Trafford, he straddles that line between confidence and arrogance really well. He has loved. I spent some time talking to people around him like, he's not the biggest for a goalkeeper, but he, he always wants to play, right? At 16, he text the manager of Kurz and Ashton when he was on the City's academy and said, can I come and play for you? And the Kurz and Aston manager went, yeah, yeah, I'll ring you back shortly. Never rang him back, so they've missed out on that. And he's only 22. Jordan Pickford didn't play his first Premier League season until he's 22. And he's come back from adversity a lot. James Trafford, he was dropped by Accrington Stanley when he was out on loan after a few mistakes, so spent the time on the bench there. Bolton fans didn't want him. They were like, why are we getting an ACRINGTON reject in? And actually he ended up falling in love with the club. They fell in love with him. He still goes to watch them. Two days after he won that €21, he was back watching Bolton in the preseason friendly in the away end. And people talk about England, the 21s, right? He kept all those clean sheets. He actually only played one game in the qualifiers building up to that. He was never the first choice. He's always been a late developer physically. So I just think at 22, he's gone in as City's number one. It's big pressure, but he has played a lot of football. Even at Burnley he got dropped, right? And he got dropped. And then the day after he had to walk into the England training ground and like face everyone because it was international camp having just been dropped. So they talk about character and resilience. It'll take him a bit of time. But this Donna Roma thing, like, hang on, you told me I was going to be number one and if Donnarumma comes in, I am not going to be number one. Like, why am I here? Because he's at stage of his career, but he wants to be number one, so it's a funny one with traffic. I hope. I hope he does well. He needs time. As Nadum says, you don't always get that as a goalkeeper at somewhere like Man City.
- [11:13]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, but fun if he's number one. And Don Rumour is just, you know, just doing like the warm up for him, you know, before. Okay.
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Sam Dalling
One other thing specifically on his footwork, right, he goes back in the summers and works with this non league keeper at work. He was at Workington Red, called Jim Atkinson. He just loves this guy's footwork, his distribution. So he knows it's something he's got to work on and he's humble enough to spend his summers going on back and doing that. And I think that speaks a lot about him.
- [11:39]
Barry Glendenning
There is nothing you don't know about James Trafford. Sam. Who knew? What a booking, What a great booking for us today. Look well done to Tottenham and Brennan Johnson as well, who scores lots of goals and no one ever talks about him. Scored another, didn't he? Let's go to the London stadium. West Ham 1, Chelsea 5. The constants in life Dan. West Ham fans streaming out of the stadium before the final whistle. I think some. Before the halftime whistle, I was.
- [12:03]
Dan Bardell
I think they're probably just going to the bar after. I think if they'd been 51 down at half time, perhaps you could say that they were leaving. But at 3:1, I think most of them were probably just going to the bar to have a point and drown the sorrows, I would say. But it doesn't take away from the fact that West Ham are in a sorry, sorry state. I called them to go down before a ball was kicked and obviously what I've seen in the first two games, conceding eight goals, they're in big trouble. I mean, there's a goalkeeper coming and letting eight goals in his first two games before her man Hermanson's coming and it's been a horrible time for, for him. And they're just, I think, a mishmash of. Of players. West Ham and what's happened in the summer is they've still got that mishmash of players, but they've lost their experienced players who weren't necessarily going to play, but were big part of the dressing room. And when the chips are down, you know, who are those players not now looking at? Bowen's a fantastic player. He's. He's their captain. But I wouldn't say he's a. He's a natural leader. So they've lost a lot of experience from that squad. They've got players from kind of three, four managerial regimes now. I'm not convinced any of them are the right type of player for Graham Potter. I think they wasted their summer window 12 months ago and didn't really bring in any players that seriously improved the squad. And I think he's already treading on a tightrope. Graham Potter. I think West Ham could go down with three managers this season. That's one of my early season predictions. I think they're in huge, huge trouble. You look at the fact the newly promoted teams have all already won games as well. That didn't happen for a long time into the last season. They're just hopeless. And it's not, not a happy place West Ham at all. I feel sorry for West Ham fans.
- [13:38]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. So who are your three? Yeah, who are three Dice. Dice is one of them. And then what? Avram Grant.
- [13:45]
Dan Bardell
Who's it might throw Nuno in there.
- [13:48]
Barry Glendenning
Well, you make that that. I think West Ham fans are desperate to forest to sack Nuno because then Nuno could go in and fix West Ham while Forrester will get to them. We'll do something insane with Ange or Joseph.
- [14:02]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah, I was just going to ask Dan, like who are your three to.
- [14:03]
Dan Bardell
Go down then I had West Ham, Burnley and Leeds at the start of the season. I thought Sunderland would stay up. And then obviously the first week I'm thinking I'm really clever when they win 3 nil and then not so clever this week.
- [14:16]
Nedum Onuoha
And in regards to those teams and you mentioned Wolves as well, where do you see Wolves finishing this year. Do you think they've gone backwards as such?
- [14:23]
Dan Bardell
Yeah. Well, every year you end up selling. You selling your best players and you're kind of circling the drain. At some point you look will run out. Now I look at that Wolves lineup that played at the weekend and very little quality in their very little experience as well. And how you've ended up with so little quality and so little kind of bona fide Premier League experience as well. And the manager's well liked there because he goes to the pub after the games and things like that when they win. I don't think you're going to see him in the pub too many times this season.
- [14:50]
Barry Glendenning
West Ham fans will be delighted that we haven't talked about West Ham during this. What's interesting, Nadim, is they talk about, you know, oh, you know, this midfielder's got no legs, which seems a bit harsh, but you look at Ward Prowse and Suchek and you go. You're often coming up against a three. And because of the way they play, three at the back, okay, it's not just. You have two people and no one else is allowed in that area. But that just doesn't. You need legs around Ward Prout so he can have the ball and have time on the ball. Right.
- [15:18]
Nedum Onuoha
Could you explain that to me further? You need legs around him so that he can have more time on the ball. How does that work?
- [15:23]
Barry Glendenning
What I mean, is he. So I suppose that at the most simple level, neither of those players can run in a way that we talked about. Pap Sa, you know, can like, really press. Right. So that means you don't get time on the ball if you're a centre midfielder with quality. You don't agree?
- [15:44]
Nedum Onuoha
No, it's not necessarily that. I just think it's. It just depends how you want to perceive it. So someone could say that they don't have legs in midfield as such, but I'd imagine with those two, if we looked at their running data, they actually do cover a lot of ground. I think somebody's probably coming in terms of, say, the ability to run at high speed, but someone like Pap Sar is more of, like an exception with that as opposed to the norm. So, yeah, it does feel funny for them in that midfield area, but I think Graham Potter and the rest of the team would know that those are the strengths and weaknesses of those players and have a style which basically would suit them. And I think. I don't. I don't necessarily think that they're always.
- [16:19]
Barry Glendenning
They don't seem to have it at the moment, they don't have a style that suits them at the moment.
- [16:23]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah, I totally agree and it's. And it's a bit awkward, Graham Potter, just because, like, I personally, like, I've hold my hands up, I think I like him, but I feel like being in at West Ham is a tough job for who he is and how he carries himself, because I don't think he necessarily fits in with how most of those fans, like, perceive their club and their football. And as in the same way, for example, when he went to Chelsea, a lot of people were doubting him, like he's gone to West Ham. A lot of people doubting him for like equal opposite reasons because of the sort feel that he has within the club itself and its identity. But yeah, those midfielders, I wouldn't say that they don't have legs because there will be other games when they could be, say, applying more pressure and so on. And I just think this West Ham are really poor at the moment. That's it. We'll admit they're really, really poor. But, for example, would you say that, say, Will Hughes. Has Will Hughes got way more legs than say, like Suchek or Ward Prowse or someone? Would you say that? Yes or no?
- [17:12]
Barry Glendenning
I just haven't. It's a good question because I don't know if I've studied, you know, but I feel like Will Hughes. But why I love Will Hughes, I don't know.
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Nedum Onuoha
I mentioned Will Hughes, not to like call him out to shame. I think Will Hughes is brilliant. I remember playing against him like 10 plus years ago. I thought he was brilliant then. I think he's brilliant now. But he himself and like Wharton in that midfield have got so much ground to cover. That's not to say that they cover every single blade of grass and they don't. Will Hughes isn't the same as Pap Sar, but it still works really well within that space For Crystal palace as an important cog in terms of how they play. I think the fact that they can't really link the backline, the midfield and the forward line and have something that looks cohesive and really hard to play against is probably a bigger concern because the better teams that we've seen so far this season, it all feels like one. You know, we were talking about spurs and how they looks like a. You know, the two clean sheets have come because they're pressing well from the front, supporting from midfield, there's matching aggression at the back. I think that's the same for some of these other Sides like the way Chelsea took them apart. Obviously Byron Hermansen having one or two issues for the last week or so is the whole heart. It's the whole approach. Everyone's together and so on. Whereas for West Ham, it just doesn't feel like that's the case. I wouldn't necessarily go to legs first, because one thing I'll say, as well as a. As a player, it's very awkward when people say you got no legs. No, my friend. Especially when it's you, Max. When it's you, Max, that's what makes it worse.
- [18:28]
Barry Glendenning
And actually there's an interesting point about how you analyze the game because sometimes you. You try and look at the big picture and sometimes you pick out a part of the pitch, but obviously everything is connected, right and correct. If Kudas is still there, then. Then you've got somebody who is doing so much pressing that it doesn't really matter if you inverted commas don't have legs. Sorry, Sam.
- [18:46]
Sam Dalling
I think it's the. They're very different kind of players and what their role is like. Will Hughes is an orchestrator. I love watching him play and I love the fact he's now a regular Premier League footballer. Suchek feels like he's in that role where he actually isn't there to link the play. And that's a problem when you've got two. He's basically making a career and I know this is oversimplifying it of arriving and being that goal scoring midfielder, Kevin Nolan. The type will get you 10, 12 goals from midfield. So it's a very different role. And when you've got a man in midfield who's doing that and you're carrying, not carrying him, but that's where I think you need another one in there to link that play because he's not designed to do that.
- [19:21]
Barry Glendenning
Chelsea were good. It's worth saying, Dan.
- [19:23]
Dan Bardell
Yeah, ciao. Pedro's so good as well. Involved in pretty much every goal on Friday night. I'm watching him and he feels like he's an old player for them because of the club world. It feels like he'd been there forever, but it's. It's kind of second Premier League game and I just think Chelsea look good without Palmer as well, which is a. Which is a really, really big thing. Estebao looks like a breath of fresh air. I think he's going to be a very, very good player. 11 nil down could have gone into themselves. Didn't got themselves back in the game and ended up absolutely thumping West Ham. I Think they've got a nice variety in, in their front players, the players that they can bring in now after three, four years of, of Todd Bowley and bringing in every attacking player in existence, kind of finally, it feels like that attack is, is kind of well balanced. So no doubt they'll go on and sign two or three players to add to that this week and make it. Chelsea are really, really good. I think Maresca's done a really good job there.
- [20:16]
Barry Glendenning
It was interesting. Cole Palmer looked very sad and unseasonably warm puffer jacket, didn't he? And I was watching it with the volume down while I was watching the Australian spin off of Death in Paradise on the big TV with Mrs. Rushton. And I was like, God, Maresca's kept cutting to Cole Palmer. And I was like, they've dropped Cole Palmer. They didn't win last week. This is a mad decision. But it turns out that he got injured in the warmup. Yes. Sam, you wanted to say something about Pedro as well? Sam?
- [20:41]
Sam Dalling
Well, I mean, I just love him and it feels like this is now his stage to really become a world class footballer. It feels like, as Dan said, he's been around ages and my wife is a Watford season ticket holder and so I watched him a fair bit when he first came over and actually when she was then my girlfriend, he saved her birthday once because we had a very late night in Leeds and we went to Huddersfield, it was freezing cold, we were not in a good way and the day didn't really start until he scored the first of two. But he has this ability to conjure stuff from nowhere and I think that is, he can get on the end of things as he did with that header. But also he's one of those players with the ball at his feet who can just make something happen. And he's got this tattoo on his arm that he says predestinado, like predestined. And it's like some players like Estavio comes in at 18, straight to stardom. He has played a lot of football. You know his, his dad was a professional footballer. Who's that? In prison for murder over in Brazil. And he had a tough upbringing with his mum. Fluminasi spotted him and brought him across to their academy. And he wasn't always the star. And it was all that stable story of like physical development and like the club had to help his mum out with money and things like that. And they came over and not really speaking any English. And then it was locked down. Watford and his stepfather who we'd Been very close to and had come over and lived with him and his mum. Like, she died. He died really suddenly. I think he had, like, acute pancreatitis. So, like, died three days after falling ill. And two days after the funeral, we scored his first Premier League goal. And I think he played at the Emirates five days after his stepdad died and they were really close. So, like, he's a really strong, resilient character. He. It feels like he's moved up through the steps. He's done Watford, plenty of games there, Brighton. And now he is at this stage where, like, I really do think he can be one of the best players in the Premier League. Like, it's a wonderful story. If you look at that story from a, like a journalist narrative type of view, it's exact. It's that story, that rising. I just love him. I think he's brilliant.
- [22:35]
Barry Glendenning
All right, that'll do for part one. Part two will begin with what on earth is happening at Nottingham Forest?
- [22:44]
Dan Bardell
When you're a forward thinker, you don't.
- [22:46]
Nedum Onuoha
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- [22:54]
Dan Bardell
And agents, so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward.
- [23:00]
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- [23:41]
Barry Glendenning
Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly, 11th of September. Few tickets left for the Troxy in London. Let's fill it. Two and a half thousand people or something. We can. Come on. That's the average attendance of, I don't know, Barrow. Surely we're. Surely we're better than that. Me, Barry Wilson, Nikki Bandini, Johnny Liu, cameos to come. Tickets can be purchased by heading to the guardian.com footballweekly live. It'll be live streamed across the world. So any of you listening to this have literally no excuse. Let's go to Selhurst Park Palace. One Forest one. David says, has Nuno gone back to his dying Jedi Persona? Has he felt a great disturbance in the forest? As if a million voices cried out in terror and were then suddenly silenced? It would explain Morgan Gibbs White signing that new deal. Maybe Darth Maranakis found his lack of faith disturbing. We'll get to the game. Which wasn't bad. But the Nuno story is extraordinary. On Friday, it was being reported he might be sat before the game. He was incredibly open in his press conference, you've probably heard it, where he said, I used to have a great relationship with the owner and now I don't, basically. And he said, you know, there's no smoke without fire. There's also apparently a rift between him and Edu, the new head of recruitment that came in from Arsenal. But Nadam, if you're a Forest fan, you are thinking, why would we possibly mess this up? It's going so well.
- [24:57]
Sam Dalling
What are we doing?
- [24:58]
Nedum Onuoha
Valid point, valid point. When they were going to the game yesterday, I think I was on radio and there were a few fans that were speaking and they were actually defending both parties. Oh, we love Nuno, we love Nuno, but the owners helped us out so much, and this, that and the other, and they didn't really want to, like, fully attach themselves to something too aggressively at this moment in time, because in theory, like, the owner has helped them be in a position which they probably never thought they'd be in, but then so is Nuno as well. So it's weird that you're having this level of, like, car crash in the same week where you've signed Hutchinson, you signed McAtee and another player, you know, you know, you're going to be in the Europa League and things seem to be positive. And especially going into the, you know, the big game that we never thought we'd see between Forest and Palace, the two European rivals, you know, at least from a litigation standpoint anyway. It's disappointing. Like, I think most fans, most fans probably say. Every fan probably like it when there's good things being reported about their football club and the football is the main point and that can be spoken about. Whenever it's all this stuff behind the scenes and they've got no real say in it, you almost feel a bit embarrassed by it. And in some ways, I think this does feel a bit embarrassing. And as I look at it from Nuno's standpoint, you wonder, like, why is he saying the things that he's saying? Why is this. What is. What is his own end goal, as such? Because if there's no relationship there, and sort of like airing out your grievances in public isn't necessarily going to make it any easier, especially against the. An owner who's not shy of speaking up himself and making his own decisions. So, yeah, it must be tough to be a Forest fan right now because you can't just talk about the football and look forward to the season ahead. But you hope that somehow it's sorted. But I just don't see it with a new director of football in Edu coming in. Maybe he would never have picked Nuno in a million years if he could start over. And I guess that's going to be the narrative that rumbles on until one of those decides to make the decision.
- [26:38]
Barry Glendenning
Sure. I mean, the thing is, Dan, if, like, Nuno's not going to go to Commerce and say that if he thinks he's staying. Right. There's just no way. I mean, it's odd that you would say it anyway, like, because if you're not gonna. If you're gonna go, you're gonna go, but. And someone will pick him up because he's such a good manager. Right. He's proved it at Wolves, he's proved it at Forest. But I mean, maybe there is may. The only thing you can think, I guess, is does he, does he think if he publicly stands up to Marinakis, a bit like Trump likes a strong guy? You know, maybe Marinakis likes a strong guy too. I don't. I don't know.
- [27:09]
Sam Dalling
Yeah.
- [27:09]
Dan Bardell
And the other thing I can think of is that he would expect the fans to come out and be up in arms about it and side with him. And like Nedham says, maybe that's not what's happened because they do love, love the owner as well. I kind of feel like the writing was on the wall a little bit at the back end of last season. I can't remember the game, but when Marinaki stormed on the pitch and kind of had that to do with Nuno, I, I did think, this isn't going to last. And that looked like there were certs for the Champions League. And I think the owner would have thought, thought, we're going to get into the Champions League here. And then they didn't and they dropped down to the Conference League and now, now they're back in the Europa League. But I do always think now that when now Forest have reached a level with all that's going on around the club now and the changes in the hierarchy and behind the scenes standards are going to be elevated, they're going to be very, very high. And whether that be results on the pitch or the way Nuno handles themselves, it never. It doesn't feel too far away for me from a parting of ways. And I don't know whether there's some agent stuff going on here as well, because Edu likes to work with K. Scrapchin, who just bought Douglas Louise to the club. Nuno's got a different agent who I think's been heavily involved in the transfer policy up until now. So it's almost like the two worlds are colliding and at the end of the day, you know, Marina Kitty is the owner. Nuno's not going to come out the right side of this. So to hear him speak in the way he's speaking, I found a little bit confusing.
- [28:29]
Barry Glendenning
Rumors of Ange Jose, Brennan Rogers, I mean, Jose and Maranakis sound. Sounds fun, doesn't it sound? But like, you know, if you've come from Nuno ball to Ange Ball, that would also be odd. But I mean, I'm all for Postecogli back in the Premier League as soon as possible.
- [28:43]
Sam Dalling
Yeah, so am I. But I don't think you are. If you're a Naughty and Forest fan, that would be a terrible move, right, because they look, they. They would go from being this side. They were. They were so solid last year, right? They didn't mind not having the ball. And look, they only had 50 or more possession in seven Premier League games last year, which, for a team that was in the Champions League spots for that long is not what you'd expect. And the most they had was 55. Right. They like solid defense, they've got Matt Sells in and they hit teams on the break with pace and they use Chris Wood. So, like, it's very. It's not a squad that's moulded in the Ange mode. So I would be a little bit worried. I mean, it's just all strange, isn't it? I mean, how can Nuno come out and say it's absurd that people are suggesting that I'm going to lose my job? It's like. Well, it's only. It's not really absurd, mate, because you came out in a press conference and said something you didn't really need to see say whatsoever. And the jump is. I mean, football journalists do tend to make some quite big jump in terms of what people say and what the headline is, but it was a relatively small little stream that most have jumped over to reach this discussion. So, yeah, it's odd, but not Ange Mourinho and Marinakis. I mean, wow, that could, like, properly be fun. Be fun for the neutral. Not for Nottingham Forest, who have had such a good couple of years and are on this upward trajectory just to then chuck a couple of fireworks in and explode it. Not for them.
- [30:04]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, speaking of chucking fireworks in, Philippe, Claire says that banner, please discuss. No, Philippe, we're not going to discuss it, but we're going to tell you what it said. Palace fans unveiled a. It wasn't quite a tifo. It was just a big banner with a picture of Marinakis with a gun to the head of Morgan Gibbs White. And Gibbs White is quoted saying, Mr. Maranakis is not in red pen involved in blackmail, match fixing, drug trafficking or corruption. The Football association is investigating the ban and Marinakis has consistently denied any wrongdoing in relation to. To all such allegations. I mean, the game itself. Nathan palace better first half. Forest better second. Highlight of the game. That pass from Dan Andoi to Hudson Odoi was so good, wasn't it?
- [30:43]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah, it was a great pass. It was a great pass. I think you summed up the game pretty well there. But yeah, to give credit to that ball as a defender, sometimes you get caught in the sense of like, oh, everything's all right, there's nothing to worry about. And then every so often, because it is the Premier League, because these are some of the best, you know, in and around Europe and the world, they can just find that little moment, see a pass that maybe no one else can see, and a good luck kid to try to catch like Hudson Odoi when he's running through like that. So it's a beautiful moment for them. It's a fantastic bit of football and obviously there's so much more surrounding the game itself, but I like the fact that there was some quality in there to discuss as well. So, yeah, that's. It's a great ball, it's a great goal and I'm just, like I say, I'm just glad that I don't have to worry about things like that anymore on the pitch in front of tens of thousands of people.
- [31:22]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, Forest almost won it. Igor Jesus hitting the post in injury time. Omari Hutchinson had a chance even later than that. Palace did beat Friedrich Stadt that one nil in the Europa Conference League playoff. First leg on Thursday night to the Emirates. Arsenal five leads, nil down. Lots of positives for Arsenal, some negatives. Should we start with the good stuff? Victor Yokorez with his first goals for the club and the way he took his first as well would be, I was gonna say, music to the ears. Well, I guess it is for the Arsenal fans because, you know, it's just like he did it all by himself.
- [31:50]
Dan Bardell
Yeah. Lovely goal. I do think the dialogue around him was a bit OTT after the first game he played. One game, he didn't score in his first game. It was like, like an absolute disaster. I liked his penalty as well. The way, the way he kind of br himself off and took the penalty. It was a great penalty. I thought it was a great day for Arsenal. First, first home game of, of the season. Just these set piece. I know, like we talk about it every time. It's boring now probably to an extent, but it's almost like a get out of jail free card. And it must be such a sapper, energy sapper for the opposition that you know, you're in the game, you're doing okay. Manchester United last week, they started that game well, they're doing well and then Arsenal get a corner and they just score off it. It must be so demoralizing as a, as an opposition defender. And once they go ahead, they're going to go on and win that game. And I just thought it was telling that, you know, Erdogan Sakura have gone off injured and we'd be talking about that like it's an absolute disaster. And obviously they are Arsenal's two best players. But look at the squad now. They've got so many different options. If those two players weren't to play next week, I still think Arsenal would be okay now. So I think they've recruited really well in, in the summer. I think the new sporting directors come in and really made a statement, got business done. Arsenal look, look well set to me and you know, once they went one, the result was only going to ever go one way and it was that Arsenal were going to score a lot of goals and win that game comfortably.
- [33:11]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. Although they do play Liverpool next week, so maybe.
- [33:14]
Dan Bardell
No, no, I still think they'd be okay. Yeah.
- [33:17]
Barry Glendenning
That's so interesting, isn't it? Well, we'll get to Odegaard and Saka. You mentioned the set pieces. Declan Rice's delivery is so good. Natum. And, and I mean, it's like a free kick, isn't it? Should there be more players who are as good at that, given they just train all week kicking a ball, you know, shouldn't each team have someone who can just whip it under the crossbar nine times out of ten?
- [33:37]
Nedum Onuoha
Well, I think if it was that easy, then everyone would be of the same level. Mr. Rushton. I don't think that's the way football works. You know, I think everyone will be scoring penalties all the time. You know, like a Kane or a Tony. It's also not the way it works then also everyone within, like the NBA would always be making their free throws as well because you can practice millions of those if you want. You can, but I think it's the skill that he has himself and I think his teammates appreciation of exactly where it's going to go and you can put it into a certain area like if you practice, practice, practice. But it's the speed of it as well, you know, it's the height of it. Like some of the better players, it's like it's not even going that high. Say the higher it goes, the more chance a goalkeeper's got of being able to get to it or someone being able to address it and so on. But it comes in so, so, so flat, relatively speaking, with such speed that realistically, even if an Arsenal player doesn't get their head on it, it's just chaos. Like that's what he serves up so well. Put yourself, put a ball into the six yard box, basically where there will probably be five to ten bodies and at which point as a defender, as an attacker, whoever touches it, it's probably not going to be fully cleared and it might just go in anyway because it's, it's so, so tough to play again. So, you know, credit to Arsenal and I'm, I'm with Dan as well, like, right. It's what Arsenal do. It's not like exciting but it's really effective, incredibly effective. And every time they get set piece you're thinking, well here it comes. And that must be a great tool to have and maybe something they'll need to lean on maybe for a little while at least if Saka and Odegaard are going to be out for a little period.
- [35:02]
Barry Glendenning
15 year old max Dauman came on. It's interesting how excited we are by someone who's essentially a child, just someone so young. The difference between that and an 18 year old coming on the pitch like there's the genuine joy when he came on. From the Arsenal fan born New Year's Eve 2009, number one was killing in the name Rage against the Machine. I think it was the X Factor protest song. It's interesting, Sam, that you can't just. If you start the game really young, it doesn't guarantee success. If you look at the top 20, there are some good names in there of the youngest ever, wayne Rooney, the 20th youngest, Aaron Lennon in there as well, Wanyeri. But it's no guarantee of success. But he does look useful. Dauman doesn't he.
- [35:40]
Sam Dalling
He does. And I was trying to think what I was doing at 15 and I think I got GCSE math statistics a year early and I thought I was like doing really well. I was winning at life and that. And then someone comes on in a Premier League game and Arsenal. And look, the beauty of them is I think Dan's absolutely right. The squad, the depth they've got, you run through their attacking options means it won't be quite like Wanyeri, where he might have to play more like out of necessity. I think Arteta can use him carefully and try and keep the hype down. I mean, he had that volley chance, didn't he, that you were thinking, oh, is this his moment?
- [36:11]
Barry Glendenning
Moment.
- [36:12]
Sam Dalling
And then the penalty at the end, I suspect there were some Arsenal fans going, oh, go on, give it Max, give it Max. I don't think that was ever going to happen. Like, the penalties will be interesting for Arsenal because Saka takes them. Normally he was off the pitch, but I think Gokurez had scored something like 27 out of 28 in the last two seasons. So he is quite a good penalty taker. And even if you take those goals out, the penalty goals out of his record, he still got 60 odd for sporting in the last couple of years. So it'd be interesting to see how that goes. I mean, Arsenal weren't even like that good. And I know that sounds weird because they've won five nil, but they only had five shots on target. Like Arsenal can get much better. They were clinical and I think they need to because Arteta's under a little bit of pressure. Right. He spent nearly a billion quid. Now he's got the players in that he wanted, he's got his center forward, got his midfielder. I think he almost has to win the league. You look at what, five, six years in one FA Cup. I know we talk about, but you look at Wenger's last six years, he won free FA Cup. So I think Arteta, if he doesn't win this year, he might be in a bit of trouble.
- [37:12]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. Just to say that we have checked it out. There is no confirmation that Max Damman 2009 was named after the then host of Soccer Aim during the glory years. We can't be sure, but that's what most people think. Danny, you were saying you don't think. Because I think Erdogan Sacker being injured, we obviously don't know how long it is. That could be the difference between the title and not the title, you know, because you imagine Arsenal will be up there and that could be five points or seven points or whatever.
- [37:42]
Dan Bardell
I think maybe it was clumsy wording. I'm not saying, like, it wouldn't be bad news for Erdogan Saka to be out because they are Arsenal's two most crucial players. What I think I'm trying to say is, is that I feel like they can cover it off a lot better this season than they would have been able to this season. And just that they've got different, different weapons now. So before, everything kind of went through Saka and Erdogan, now they've got other players for things to go through. Now they've got a genuine center forward to occupy defenses. So I think just if they were to be missing for a period of time, I think Arsenal are okay. They will still win football matches. They will still score lots of goals from. From set pieces. They've got a center forward. I just think they're. They're better set than they would have been 12 months ago.
- [38:22]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. And actually, if Odegaard is out, not that that is a good thing, but if it means. As a.
- [38:26]
Dan Bardell
Well, yeah, we haven't even mentioned him yet.
- [38:27]
Barry Glendenning
Fascinating. Fascinating to see. Let's go to the Hill Dickinson Stadium. First game for Everton. There, they beat Brighton 2 nil. I mean, the game could have gone either way, I think, Sam. But first of all, you were there. It looks. It does look amazing.
- [38:40]
Sam Dalling
Yeah, it's incredible. It's a beautiful ground. We took some photos. We're lucky enough to be there, as you say. And we took some photos outside and then we looked at them and it's like, you know, those AI generated images that you get before a new ground is built. Like, the actual, real photos of it look like that. And everyone was up there really early. The acoustics in it were absolutely exceptional. That the noise that home end can make. I don't know what it does. I don't know much about architecture, but they have designed it. Obviously they were quiet periods, but when that noise got going, I think it will be the loudest ground in the League. I really do that. I never know. The sirens thing I always find a little bit weird, but my words, that was loud. Like the PA system they have probably. That's probably the most money they've spent on the PA system. It was absolutely deafening and it was brilliant. Look, it was. It was a privilege to be there. They've got to sort a few things out. We got lucky enough to get an invite into some hospitality. How the other world lives. And 40 minutes after we ordered. We chased the food a couple of times and we were told that the food order hadn't actually been through and then to make up for it they brought all three courses at once. So by the time I got to my sticky toffee pudding, it was both cold and the ice cream had melted. So there's my first world problems. It really. It was a tough day out for me and it was a good game and I think Everton got a little bit lucky to be honest. Like I thought Brighton were the better side. I think Everton are going to struggle this year. I think Grealish gives them a punch, a chance. It's just Grealish and Undai who I think is a bit wasted out on the right. But yeah, any other day other than the first day and the new ground, I think Brighton win that game quite comfortably.
- [40:21]
Barry Glendenning
That's interesting. Yeah because like Matoma hit the bar. Didn't hit. Nil. Nil. Welbeck had a great chance, Van Hecker hit the post and O'Reilly had a massive chance at 1 nil. Pickford says that but Danny Welbeck penalty after an obscene hand ball, I suppose and I. Naden, we've talked about it before but he's such an exciting player. Scored the last goal at Goodison, the first goal here. Are you a pub quiz question anywhere, Nadam?
- [40:42]
Nedum Onuoha
Kind of. Kind of, yeah.
- [40:44]
Barry Glendenning
Oh, what's what is? What's what is is the question I.
- [40:46]
Nedum Onuoha
Think as it stand. Well, to be fair. No, I'm not. I nearly was. I take that back. I was nearly the person who In 2011, 12, I would have been the only player to have played for a team that won the Premier League and got relegated in the same season when I went from City to qpr.
- [40:58]
Dan Bardell
Ah.
- [40:59]
Nedum Onuoha
So I'm quite glad I avoided that one because that's a bit embarrassing, isn't it? Talk about a drop off.
- [41:03]
Barry Glendenning
Who else is there now?
- [41:04]
Nedum Onuoha
Couldn't tell you it couldn't tell you like from that extent. But yeah. Talk about flipping belief in someone's ability. No, you're not going to win the league but you know, maybe championships for you but yeah, in J. I think he's. I think he's awesome and I think it is a shame that he won't play on that left hand side because I think it really suits him and the way that he plays and the magic that he has. Like I was trying to. Like I was caught. I'm caught into in between two places with Everton because I love the fact that, you know, it's a family club. But then I'm also still attached to like the Dice years where I didn't really enjoy watching them as such. But then I think back to the David Moyes years and it was people like Stephen P and I would be playing that left hand side and they were so good to watch Pienaar and Baines down at left hand side. Like I loved all that. This is when Everton were a lot more progressive and I think Ngai in some ways reminds me more of a piano and back in those days for the way that they would play and put you under so much pressure. So it's a shame that he will be out on that right hand side but his impact definitely is there and those fans like you can see that they love him for the way that he plays through some dark times in terms of them being respectfully quite boring. You know, he always seems to find that little bit of magic and if he can form that sort of relationship with Grealish and others in and around there then and yeah they'll be all right. I don't know if they'll be amazing. I think I'm with you guys as well that Brighton probably deserve more from that game but for the history books we're probably glad that Everton won their first game at home and then they can sort of look, think positively like nothing beats that first memory of a new place being a positive one with a good result with new signing making a difference and yeah the energy being up there.
- [42:27]
Barry Glendenning
Producer Joel says, you know if the first cheers are good, the first boos are going to be good.
- [42:32]
Nedum Onuoha
Can you imagine around the hill Dickinson?
- [42:34]
Barry Glendenning
But I mean it's interesting. They could just play, couldn't you just play Grealish in the 10 and a die on the left and that, you know that might work anyway, anyway that'll do for part two. Part three will begin with Fulham Man United.
- [42:47]
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- [43:29]
Barry Glendenning
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Alex says, did that one all draw prove that United can beat anybody? Do you know what the penalty Dan Is interesting, right, because Bassie is holding Mount, but Shaw is fouling Muniz at the same time, I think. And Lars has made the point there's a total imbalance in the risk of an attacker committing a foul and a defender. And maybe that has always been the case, but now they can look at them and decide, well, that's a foul and that's a foul, but we'll give that foul. And it's illustrated by the fact that Lenny Uro pushes Bassie for the United goal. But that doesn't matter because if he gets penalized, well, he gets penalized. So I don't know. I got slightly irked by that whole situation, I think.
- [44:08]
Dan Bardell
I guess it's based on where they think the ball is going to go and they'll focus on the foul that is nearer where the ball is gonna go. I'm no expert on these things.
- [44:17]
Nedum Onuoha
Well, well, to jump in there, the ball actually went closer to the foul behind Bassey because he was being a back post header.
- [44:27]
Barry Glendenning
All right.
- [44:27]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah, I think yesterday and sorry to jump in.
- [44:29]
Dan Bardell
No, please do. I didn't know that question, to be honest.
- [44:32]
Nedum Onuoha
I don't want to handle it either. But I think they were saying in the commentary that the Basse foul happened first.
- [44:39]
Barry Glendenning
Right.
- [44:40]
Nedum Onuoha
So that's what they were focusing on. And I don't know, man, it was weird to even be looking at it thinking, is that a foul? You know what I mean? Because Mountain himself even didn't. Didn't like fully sell it either. It's like something's happened. Mount's in the way of Bassey trying to go and do something else. So I was wondering, like, as a player, what. Obviously you can't necessarily, like, grab someone, throw them, whatever, but, like, what do you do at that point? You say, oh, well, unfortunately, I can't get back there because this guy's here.
- [45:03]
Barry Glendenning
Because I hate the number of penalties there are. I just wonder if you say, okay, var, look at it. And they go, well, if an attacker is fouling a defender anywhere, that takes priority. So, like, if you want a penalty, then none of your attackers can be committing a foul in the box because that evens it up slightly. Because at the moment it's like, well, the attacker can do all sorts of pushing and pulling because it doesn't really matter. And the defender has to just, you know, the defender's already got his arms behind his back in case it's a handball. Now you'll just have to replace it with, you know, it's. You just have to turn Into a lemon. There's nothing you can do.
- [45:32]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah. You're basically just a mannequin from set pieces. Yeah, and it's a good point. It's good to see you. You've got your defenders union card with you as well this year. I'm a big, big fan of that, Max. But again, listening to what they were saying in the. In the commentary about how they're going to be trying to clamp down on that this season, I just think it's a.
- [45:46]
Dan Bardell
Is.
- [45:47]
Nedum Onuoha
It's disappointing because as the defender, like, it's a really physical game and the people you're playing against are also incredibly strong and they've got a huge desire to try and score in the goal that's probably about two, three yards away. So sometimes, like, your body will be put into positions which you're not thinking about consciously, but it's just happening due to, like, just general jostling within a game. Not least of all because some of the way that you jostle with the players, similar to, like when a long ball comes up to the striker, you don't have your hands behind your back. Like you're both jostling for the ball, but the attacker might be in front of you, but the ref won't give a free kick there. But if that same thing happens in the box, then it's a penalty. And I think that's a shame and just going off pure vibes because obviously the rules are the rules or laws are laws or whatever. The push from Yorro felt like more of a foul to me than the penalty they gave against Bassie because I was like, well, he's put two hands in his back. Bassie's basically like, if Bassie was smaller and he's laying on the floor, it's probably a free kick. Because Bassie's stronger, he's penalized and it's like, well, unlucky. Just gotta be stronger yourself.
- [46:45]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. And actually they say, oh, he's gotta be stronger there.
- [46:47]
Nedum Onuoha
It's a sort of cliche and it's.
- [46:49]
Barry Glendenning
Just like, doesn't matter if you're a big unit. If somebody pushes you in the back, you're still pushed in the back. Like, that affects what you do and it affects where the ball goes. Beyond that, Sam, the penalty was interesting, wasn't it? I think Bruno has criticized Chris Kavanagh, another Northern voice. I'm really looking forward to the. I'm going to play all the referees voices at the end of the season without seeing who they are and see if anyone can guess who they are because they've all got exactly the same voice. But like Bruno criticizing Chris Kavanagh for sort playing of getting in his way when he's in his zone. Does he have a point?
- [47:18]
Sam Dalling
Well, and it was like he didn't mind him doing it. It was the lack of an apology from the referee. That's what Bruno seemed to. I'm sure he wouldn't. Ideally wouldn't have liked him to enter his zone. But yeah, it was. Well, he didn't apologize to me and that put me off in between starting my run up and then going back to this stuttering run up. That feels a little bit like excuses to me. I mean you probably shouldn't let that. The ref was just doing his job. Right. Interesting how Chris Kavanagh, he said Fulham and then just Manchester. It wasn't Manchester United, just Manchester. Like what we play in pro evolution soccer. We haven't got rights to the actual team names.
- [47:51]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, I think so. It's a bit. Bit Larry David from Bruno. Wasn't it? The commensurate apology for the. For the. What you have done. What did you make of. I thought Man United down were quite good in the first half in this game.
- [48:04]
Dan Bardell
Yeah, Bit like last week. Lots to like about them, just not quite all coming together. They couldn't seem to get that goal in the first half. Kunya did everything but score. That. That touch from the. The long goal kick was absolutely majestic. I think probably everyone in the world, although everyone hates Manchester United, probably not. But I wanted him to score because it was such a good touch, such a beautiful bit of football. And also he was in my fantasy football team. So I did did have that as. As well. I really, really wanted him to score. He didn't. I think there's a kind of. You can see what Manchester United are trying to do. I think think Mount really interested me in the. In the first couple of games. His role in the way he's played. He's such a good footballer, such a clever footballer. And seeing him play a couple of games for Manchester United, you feel that if he can stay fit, he'll be a real critical player and that he'll probably get himself. He'll probably be in the next England squad. Him. Angerides will probably get themselves in the next England squad by virtue of just having a couple of good games. Because I think Tuco will lean on experience. They need midfielder. They need a central midfielder. It's pretty desperate in there, I would say. And a goalkeeper as well. Every corner Fulham had, you felt like Fulham were Arsenal. You felt like something might happen because the keeper was just so, so weak, obviously.
- [49:15]
Barry Glendenning
Did you think Fulham were Arsenal just because all their players used to play for Arsenal? Was that.
- [49:19]
Dan Bardell
That does help us as well, doesn't it? But those delivering. Was it. Was it Lukic who was actually delivering the ball like Declan Rice? He'd obviously been doing some set piece practice.
- [49:28]
Barry Glendenning
Not John Lukich.
- [49:29]
Dan Bardell
Not John Lukas. Have I said his name right? He's Luke.
- [49:31]
Barry Glendenning
No, no, you are.
- [49:33]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah.
- [49:33]
Dan Bardell
Sasha Lukic must have been working on the training ground this week, max, because some of his deliveries were Declan Rice esque.
- [49:38]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. Burnley 2, Sunder nil. So it means all three promoted sides have won a game, which I think is. That is good. Nadin, are we going to have an exciting Premier League season at the bottom or is it still August? And as Nikki said last week, football lies in August and the promoted sides will all be the bottom three come November.
- [49:56]
Nedum Onuoha
So I don't think the three promoted sides will go down this year. But I'm. I'm firstly rooting for Sunderland to be the team that stays up. But I don't. I don't know. It's like, it's so easy to overreact at this point in the season. I think realistically, when you'll see what's. What is when these next, like three international breaks are over and you're heading in towards a time in like November, December time where it's just games, games, games, games, games. To say that like the first win on the board doesn't matter would be a lie because it does. Having been somebody who previously held the record for longest period to start a season without winning another pub quiz, thank you to Sheffield United for taking that record away from my qPR team of 2013. 14. Thank you very much, guys. Or 2012, 13 rather. It does matter. Just for like energy, you know what I mean? And the fact that all three teams have won at home, that brings a sense of belief. And the fan bases will always think that when they're coming to a home game now that there's a chance that the team's going to win. And I think the longer that goes, you can sense it as a player in the crowd, you know, the way that people start talking about you in the media and stuff changes. So the way that managers get question changes and then you feel like a narrative switch because now the media is almost feeding stuff into your fan base, like, you guys are no good, you've got no chance whatsoever. Why are you even here? And so you make A mistake in a week and oh, this is what such and such was saying about on that show or whatever. But yeah, those wins definitely do matter. But in reality these teams will be make or breakers. Like can you win consecutive games? Can you go a stretch of time unbeaten? Can you stay intact with everyone else around you? And at the moment, in terms of what the bottom is like, like, you know, United have got like one point but do we think that they're worse than Burnley, Leeds and Sunderland? Absolutely not. So yeah, let's not, let's not lie to ourselves too much in August, but still celebrate those moments because they'll probably be few and far between as the season progresses.
- [51:37]
Barry Glendenning
And actually like, yeah, first goal is crucial, Brian, but you know, Sunderland had chances in this game. My end had a really good chance in the early but Bernie scored the goals and actually Sam, I loved both goals. Like the setup from Antony for Cullen is great. The pass from Cullen to Anthony is great.
- [51:52]
Dan Bardell
Great.
- [51:52]
Sam Dalling
Yeah, it is. Cullen has almost taken over from Josh Brownhill who I think was offered a new contract and he was their player of the year last year and he didn't take it up. I'm not sure he's found a club yet, but Cullen's a company man. He came over from Anderlecht with him to be their metronome. So it's great to him. It's great to see Jaden Anthony as well. I know he went from Bournemouth to Leeds and I think his mum passed away midway through the season. So he's dealt with a bit and to see him score that goal was absolutely wonderful. I do think it is really important. I know it's only the first two games. I take what Nadam's saying, but I think if Sunderland go and win that game and again, I know it's two games in the season, but suddenly Burnley are six points behind Sunderland already. So yes, there's still 38 games to go but I think psychologically for Burnley not to be six points behind another fellow newly promoted side is really big.
- [52:38]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah. I also like the strobing floodlights and slightly annoyed that they turned them off to carry on the game and didn't just start playing, you know, set you free by entrance or whatever. Brentford beat Villa 1 0. Like this is a huge win this dam for, for Keith Andrews and I loved what you said afterwards. It was scrappy, it was ugly and I loved it.
- [52:58]
Dan Bardell
I hated it. Keith feels the opposite about the game to me. Brent Villa kind of made it easy for Brentford but Villa looked toothless. We could still be playing now and Villa wouldn't have scored in that game. Brentford dug in, were resilient, needed a reaction off the back of what happened last week and. And they got it. I think he was too kind of. Of style. Teams who haven't obviously lost players in the summer haven't done loads of transfer business, but I think Brentford just by having one new addition to their front three, it gave them something, it gave the fans something to get behind because they had, they had a new player and I think that's what won them the game ultimately. Villa I think could have named most of that starting lineup in, in 2021 and looked very, very style, I've got to say. So I don't think we. I think a draw probably would have been a fair result, but so watch Villa kind of outplayed by midfield. Well, Villa lose to a midfield of Henderson and Yarmulke and not really ever get a grip on that. That midfield was disappointing. But Keith Andrews needed a good result because if that lost again, there'd have been a load of noise around him that I think would have probably been. Been unfair. So well done to Brentford. But I thought Villa from Villa's perspective is a Travis.
- [54:08]
Barry Glendenning
In the last two weeks has your mood slightly changed? Because I interviewed at the start of the season, you were like, look, Emery's there. The squad's good. This is fine. We haven't bought anyone, but it's fine. It doesn't sound like that now.
- [54:18]
Dan Bardell
No, I. I'm hoping that Nick is right in that kind of August is a lie because I've not enjoyed August so far from a village perspective, both on and off the pitch with losing players and being hamstrung and not being able to really do anything unless we sell it. It's hard because the manager's so good are loath to criticize the manager because what he's done at this club has been absolutely phenomenal. I've never seen anything like it. I think tactically he's got a few things wrong wrong in. In the first couple of games we've looked toothless. We haven't scored in the first two games. And if I think Emery's kind of rain at Villa it's about scoring goals and, and lots of goals. But the first two games we haven't looked like we were. We were going to score once. I haven't got excited once. But I do think off the pitch that's kind of bled on onto on the pitch now since Jacob Ramsey's gone, it seems to have done Some. Some real damage to the dressing room and they just look like a lack of belief and kind of players that are walking around kind of not knowing if they're going to be there or not at the end of the window because of the. The rules and the constraints and how Villa are working under them, that it doesn't feel like a happy, cohesive place at the moment. And I just want the transfer window to shut. It's almost like we're waiting for the transfer window to shut for our season to start.
- [55:27]
Barry Glendenning
Sure. And like PSR obviously is hard if you're this club, but have they done things wrong?
- [55:32]
Dan Bardell
Oh, yeah.
- [55:33]
Barry Glendenning
Their wage spend is 90% of their total revenue or something like that. So is that the. Is that the mistake I'm trying to work out where obviously I can understand if you're a Villa fan, Newcastle fan, you're saying PSR is bullshit and if it wasn't there, we'd be great. But other things Villa could have done differently in the last few years to not put themselves in this position.
- [55:50]
Dan Bardell
It's maybe more prior to Emery, they could have done stuff differently. But I still look at who I think Villa's best, best players are in the. In the man or in their best 11. And the bulk of them were already at the club when. When Unai Emery walked through the door. I think I saw a stat yesterday that since he's been at the club, Emery, Villa, £10 million in profit. So we've qualified for Europe every, every single season, season without actually spending a penny in terms of transfer fees because we're 10 million in profit. We've done some. Done some sensible business over the years and we've done some bad business over the years as well. But it's this revenue thing. We are never going to have the revenue that Manchester United have, that Chelsea have, that Manchester City have. It's just not going to happen. And you've been penalized for something that you're almost not in control of and then the club can then try and put prices up and whatnot, because they say they need to for psr, and then that impacts the fans as well. So I just. All round, psr, it's impacting everyone involved with Aston Villa, but not. Not in a positive. I understand there has to be rules, but I do think it needs to be looked at because it's absolutely killing us right now.
- [56:54]
Barry Glendenning
Just a word on Mikhail Damsgaard, who had some twinkle toes and played really well in that game. Finally, Bournemouth beat Wolves. Their first win of the season. I liked Pereira after The game. Not complaining about the red card, just saying it's a pity if only all managers did that after they had their center back sent off. But we fear for wolves. Do we need.
- [57:14]
Nedum Onuoha
I don't fear for wolves. I'll let Dan talk about that one. Tell me more about fearing for wolves.
- [57:19]
Dan Bardell
Dan, do you look at that team and think that's a team that's not going to be involved in a relegation battle and once you're involved in one, there's obviously then a chance that you're. You're going to go down?
- [57:28]
Nedum Onuoha
Yeah, I don't necessarily look at them. I don't think they'll be going down and I don't think they'll be in a full battle as such. But again it's like it's tough because again it's August. Like that's why every take I have at this point in the season always comes with that caveat like, oh, it's early. Early, you know what I mean? Like Yokker has didn't do much last week. Oh, but it's early does well this week. Yeah, but it's early like this team's not doing. Yeah, but it's early. So I don't think. I personally don't think they'll be involved in a proper dogfight as such because I still think they do have enough quality to carry themselves a little bit above say the potential bottom three. But you know, they do need to find some level of format. I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't necessarily judge them based on like say losing a game to City or away at Bournemouth, to be honest, even though Bournemouth aren't necessarily going to have the season that they had last year. I don't know who their next fixtures are, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got result in the next in the coming weeks.
- [58:18]
Barry Glendenning
How can you not know?
- [58:19]
Nedum Onuoha
I know, I know, I know. Plastic walls.
- [58:20]
Barry Glendenning
Fat. Absolute outrage. Newcastle play Liverpool tonight. We'll cover that on tomorrow's pod. Sam, your feelings going into this?
- [58:29]
Sam Dalling
My feelings? I mean, how long have we got?
- [58:30]
Barry Glendenning
It's not long. Two minutes maybe one.
- [58:32]
Sam Dalling
I'm looking forward to it. Right. It's going to be a cracking night. There are obvious extra spicy elements to it. I like Dan, can't wait for the transfer window to shut. I think the big name is Alexander Isaac. I do think he will be a Newcastle player actually come the transfer window closing, I think we'll see A lovely statement on September 1st written by his agent again, probably saying, oh, you know, there's Been a lot of misunderstanding going on this summer. I'd like to apologise to the Newcastle fans who I've always loved and Eddie Howe who my relationship with him has never wavered. Let's look forward to a good season. Koeithelads and I think he's. He'll spell it incorrectly and use like the Sunderland spelling or something like that. But look tonight is. Oh yeah, it's big like that. On the game itself it was. I think it was free all last year. High intensity. I'm looking forward to it. Liverpool have got defensively they're still growing sorting themselves out right. They haven't got a right back. Kirkez is still settling in. I wish we had a center forward. Yes of course I do but we've got. Newcastle have got pace. The midfield battle will be brilliant. I don't think Slot and Eddie Howe are the kind of characters to like. The stuff that's going on transfer wise is way above their heads. I don't think that will impact them. It will definitely impact the crowd. It will turn it up a decibel or two. I mean without going into the exact stuff in detail. That's all I can say really. It's been done plenty of times and there's probably nothing new I can add.
- [59:52]
Barry Glendenning
A word on commentary beat QPR 71 it's like your old days Nadim at Loftus Road.
- [59:59]
Nedum Onuoha
Don't do that.
- [60:00]
Barry Glendenning
Same day the club. Same day the club announced they bought their grand ground. Apparently the XG was just over 1. Although looking at the highlights it definitely didn't look. It looked more than one. Watching them score seven I must admit highlight of the game was the optimistic QPR player picking the ball out of the net in like the 92nd minute or something and running back to the center circle, you know. 7. We're still in this lads.
- [60:21]
Nedum Onuoha
Oh Max, honestly, I hate you so much.
- [60:24]
Barry Glendenning
Mark Langdon messaged me this. Lots of people have seen it. Knox county subs yesterday, Gordon and Bennett and just standing there perfectly next to each other. It's a lovely picture. We've got an EFL pod next Tuesday. Producer Joel Hope and QPR stay terrible until the weekend when they host Charlton following presumably a humbling. Charlton's humbling at Cambridge in the Producer Presenter Football Weekly Derby in the second round of the Carabao cup on Tuesday. Sam, finally you were at Morecambe. You had a busy weekend. You were at Morecambe for this injury time winner for their new manager.
- [60:55]
Sam Dalling
It was wonderful. You know what I mentioned Everton earlier, right? When I was sat there waiting for me dinner watching. Was it Ashley Young and Lewis Saha speaking from on top of a hotel stand with a swimming pool at Fulham and then panning to poor palace fans who'd been screwed over for multi club ownership. I was just wishing I was back at Morecambe where football was so pure. Like, Sani has done a brilliant job, our colleague, of covering the story. But I was chatting to fans outside like there was this whole family, like three generations were there. There was this Scottish guy called Willie who'd come down 35 years ago to a work at the power plant and become.
- [61:29]
Barry Glendenning
Is he the ground? He's not the groundskeeper. Okay, fine.
- [61:33]
Sam Dalling
Like he was. He was talking about how it would have just left such a vacuum in his life. I chat to Keith, who was the drummer, who started crying as he was telling me memories of like holding his son in his first game in the terrace. And they were like, what a difference a week makes. They were a week away from there being no football this season and they were told they had to play the game because it was on Dazone. Manager out, manager in. They had five senior players on Monday. I think they signed a dozen. They had two training sessions together which had to be limited to 60 minutes because the players haven't had a preseason, right? You couldn't buy hot food. A tube of Pringles is all you could get in the ground. The new owners were there. They were introduced to Punjab Warriors. They scored after six minutes. And this guy, announcer Mark Swindlehurst, who's been there 32 years, it was the best announcement I've ever heard. Six minutes here, they score and he just goes, well, well, well. The crowd just went absolutely bananas. And then ultram equalise and second half, they're holding on, right? Literally half of the Morecambe side are down with cramp. They really cannot cope. The players aren't physically in the place to be playing this game. And the manager, Ashvir Singh Jahao, who's a very interesting character, he switches formation and he said to me afterwards, we hadn't played 5, 3, 2. So actually the players had to run over. I wrote it down on a bit of paper where they were all going to play and I showed it to them. 10 minutes injury time. He is absolutely fuming. And then in the 8th minute, they break and I watched him and he had his hands on his head and a couple of seconds later the ball ends up in the back of the net and he's running down the touchline. It's almost Mourinho esque. The ground is exploding. Swindlehurst is back, going well, well, well. And it was just the sheer joy. The owners are up there celebrating. Like the fans had texted me before hand, if we get relegated this season, it doesn't matter because at least it's football we get to talk about again. It's not stuff off the field. And you couldn't have scripted it any better. It was absolutely perfect. The next day, Sunday, having all cramped up, they had a coach to Aldershot, where they've got a game at Aldershot on Bank Holiday Monday. They've got a whole node of new players, but they're just playing football and they have a football club and it was wonderful.
- [63:40]
Barry Glendenning
Listen. Beautifully articulated there, Sam. No better place to end this podcast, I think. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Sam.
- [63:47]
Sam Dalling
Thanks, Max.
- [63:48]
Barry Glendenning
Thanks, Nadam.
- [63:48]
Nedum Onuoha
Thank you very much.
- [63:49]
Barry Glendenning
Cheers, Dan.
- [63:50]
Dan Bardell
Thank you, Max.
- [63:51]
Barry Glendenning
Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [64:02]
Nedum Onuoha
This is the Guardian.