Sunderland’s derby joy and Mo Salah returns – Football Weekly

Summary

Football Weekly – Sunderland’s Derby Joy and Mo Salah Returns

Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Max Rushden
Panel: Barry Glendenning, Robin Cowan, Nada Manua
Produced by: The Guardian Sports Desk

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Football Weekly dives into a weekend of major football drama, with a particular focus on Sunderland’s dramatic win over Newcastle in the Tyne-Wear Derby, the return (and ongoing saga) of Mo Salah at Liverpool, and key talking points from the Premier League and beyond. The panel’s discussion is light-hearted, irreverent, and insightful, touching upon both on-field heroics and off-field narratives, with the usual blend of humour and informed debate.

---

1. Sunderland 1–0 Newcastle: Derby Drama at the Stadium of Light

[02:21–13:20]

• Barry’s In-Person Tale:

  • Barry Glendenning provides a lively account of attending the Tyne-Wear Derby—a match of “staggeringly bad football, but a wonderful occasion” for Sunderland fans. He sets the scene in Sunderland, noting the festive pre-match atmosphere and the sombre moment after the death of club legend Gary Rowell was announced.
    • “It was like someone had flicked a switch. Everything went very calm or quiet...” (Barry Glendenning, 03:30)

• Own Goal Infamy:

  • Nicholas Voltimada, Newcastle’s German striker, scores a bullet header—into his own net—in the 46th minute, the match’s only goal. Barry describes wild reactions: standing ovation from Sunderland fans and, later, Sunderland players recreating Newcastle’s infamous selfie.
  • “It’s quite an achievement to be a fan favorite with Newcastle fans, but even more of a fan favorite with Sunderland at the same time.” (Barry Glendenning, 05:53)

• Legacy of Mistakes:

  • Discussion on unforgettable own goals in English football (Pollock, Dowie, Brass), and the heavy fate awaiting Voltimada.
    • “That goal will be remembered forever. He won’t be able to escape it while living in the Northeast.” (Max Rushden, 07:07)

• Analysis of Newcastle:

  • Newcastle’s massive investment (Voltimada, Alanga, Ramsey) has yet to yield results; they’re “trapped in mid-table.”
    • “They can get good results in Europe...but when it comes down to domestic football, 21 goals scored, 20 conceded, sitting exactly in mid table.” (Max Rushden, 12:21)

---

2. Wolves Lose to Arsenal (Thanks to an Own Goal)

[13:20–16:33]

• Wolves nearly take a point at the Emirates thanks to Mosquera’s equalizer—before an own goal undoes their hard work.
  • “Is there a worse way to lose?” (Barry Glendenning, 01:37)
• Sympathy for Wolves: the team has not won in 16 games, morale is “in the pits of hell.”
  • “They’re almost the plus one that’s been invited to this Premier League season and you’ve kind of forgotten about.” (Max Rushden, 15:10)

---

3. Arsenal’s Lucky Break

[16:39–19:00]

• Arsenal are lucky to beat Wolves, escaping with three points despite a poor display.
  • “If this is their rut, what a nice rut to be in if you’re still winning games.” (Robin Cowan, 17:46)
• Upcoming fixtures could provide a sterner test for Arteta’s side’s Premier League ambitions.

---

4. Liverpool 2–0 Brighton: Salah’s Return Dominates

[19:00–26:06]

• All About Mo Salah:

  • Despite Hugo Ekitike’s strong form, Salah’s presence and off-field drama dominate discussion.
  • Panelists praise Arne Slot’s measured handling of Salah after going public with his frustrations.
    • “Slot has really done great...but he’s probably thinking, thank Christ he’s going to Afcon and I don’t have to deal with this anymore.” (Nada Manua, 20:59)

• Fan Response & Club Politics:

  • Warm Anfield reception for Salah despite his public falling out; debate about the shifting standards for star versus squad players.
    • “It shows the goalposts we thought were stuck in the ground actually have wheels...they move however you want depending on who it is.” (Natum Manua, 23:21)
    • “The ability to move on that quickly...you wonder, what was his punishment? Not every player gets afforded that sort of luxury.” (Natum Manua, 24:52)

---

5. Aston Villa’s Hot Streak – West Ham 2–3 Aston Villa

[27:33–33:05]

• Villa Enter the Title Conversation:

  • Six wins in a row. Discussion about whether Villa could be seen as title contenders after coming from behind away yet again.
    • “Do we consider Villa to be title contenders? I would have said no...but they are in the conversation. It’s a remarkable run they’re on.” (Barry Glendenning, 27:51)

• Morgan Rogers’ Class:

  • Praises for Villa’s young talent and their resilience.
    • “He makes it look like every footballer should be able to do that every time they shoot.” (Barry Glendenning, 29:03)

---

6. Palace 0–3 Man City: Scoreline Flatters City

[33:54–36:14]

• City’s clinical edge makes the difference, but Palace impress going forward and hit the woodwork.

• Notable moment: Thomas Tuchel (watching on) searching for sweets in a press room pick-and-mix bag, drawing laughter.

• Media Room Highlight:

  • “Congratulations to all at Sunderland for a wonderful turkey and bacon pie with mash and pigs in blankets and gravy for lunch.” (Robin Cowan, 35:51)

---

7. Spurs’ Collapse at Forest and Managerial Pressure

[37:46–43:54]

• Notts Forest 3–0 Spurs:

  • Spurs’ “total collapse” discussed in depth, with key errors (notably Archie Gray’s) highlighted—but panel resists overly blaming young players.
  • Nada: “When Spurs do collapse, it’s really really poor...you’re watching a game of long throws and set pieces, not what most Spurs fans would want.” (Nada Manua, 40:54)

• Thomas Frank (Brentford) Struggling with the Step Up:

  • Debate over whether managers from “smaller clubs” are given enough time or respect at bigger clubs.

---

8. Chelsea 2–0 Everton: Maresca’s Cryptic Blues

[47:00–50:39]

• Chelsea’s Manager Enzo Maresca:

  • Comments mysteriously about the “worst 48 hours” since joining, refusing to elaborate, which the panel sees as picking a fight with an unwinnable opponent: the Chelsea hierarchy.
    • “For him to roll that grenade out...and then refuse to clarify seemed a bit odd.” (Robin Cowan, 47:24)

• Fan Discontent:

  • A number of Chelsea season ticket holders express their dislike of the football played under Maresca despite recent stability, referencing the lack of excitement.
    • “They’re a good side...but maybe his face just hasn’t really fit, regardless of their relative success.” (Max Rushden, 49:07)

---

9. Burnley v Fulham & Other Results

[51:53–54:25]

• Fulham’s First Turf Moor Win Since the 1950s:
  • Praise for Harry Wilson, comical defending from Burnley, admiration for Calvin Bassey’s adventurous run.
    • “He does go on these runs very often...when Calvin Bassey goes like that, it’s exciting.” (Max Rushden, 54:08)

---

10. Celtic’s Crisis & St. Mirren’s Triumph

[54:34–58:48]

• St. Mirren Win Scottish League Cup:

  • Much deserved praise for St. Mirren’s victory and jubilant scenes, but most attention (as often in Scotland) on Celtic’s ongoing disarray.
    • “Saint Mirren scored two beauties...but the focus was on Celtic and it always is.” (Robin Cowan, 55:23)

• Celtic’s Struggles Under Wilfried Nancy:

  • Three defeats to start his tenure; panel questions why club legend Martin O’Neill wasn’t left in charge longer. Nancy accused of sticking to a rigid system ill-suited to his squad.
    • “Appointing Nancy with little or no fanfare—almost as if they were embarrassed...the early indications are that he doesn’t quite know what he’s got himself into.” (Robin Cowan, 57:23)

---

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Barry Glendenning on Sunderland’s Derby Joy:
  “Football is brutal. Perhaps he can start a support group with Jerson Mosquera.” [01:17]

• Robin Cowan on Sunderland’s Festive Atmosphere:
  “I went to the pub to watch Fulham-Burnley, because that’s how I roll...it was quite the experience.” [02:31]

• Max Rushden on Voltimada’s Own Goal:
  “That goal will be remembered forever. He won’t be able to escape it while living in the Northeast.” [07:07]

• Nada Manua on Wolves’ Heartbreak:
  “They think they’ve got a point...the manner of the defeat was absolutely heartbreaking...they scored all the goals. Every single goal.” [14:34]

• Robin Cowan on Arsenal’s Performance:
  “They got very lucky and, you know, take it, forget about it, put that performance behind you and move on.” [16:58]

• Nada Manua on Salah’s Treatment:
  “Slot has played this absolutely, brilliantly, perfectly...he said kind of the bare minimum and he’s not added fuel to the fire.” [19:41]

• Max Rushden on Chelsea’s Maresca:
  “I quite like the idea of managers in press conferences going, ‘I’m going to say something now which will make sense in some time’ and then carrying on.” [50:39]

---

Key Segment Timestamps

• Sunderland vs Newcastle, Own Goal Fallout: [02:21–13:20]
• Wolves Heartbreak, Arsenal’s Lucky Escape: [13:20–19:00]
• Mo Salah’s Return & Liverpool: [19:00–26:06]
• Aston Villa Title Discussion: [27:33–33:05]
• Man City Clinical, Press Room Banter: [33:54–36:14]
• Spurs Collapse at Nottingham Forest: [37:46–43:54]
• Chelsea’s Cryptic Manager: [47:00–50:49]
• Scottish League Cup and Celtic's Crisis: [54:34–58:48]

---

Tone and Style

True to Football Weekly’s signature, this is a mixture of irreverent humour, deep football knowledge, and on-the-nose punditry. There’s empathy for supporters (and unlucky players), a clear sense of fun among the panel, and willingness both to praise and poke fun.

---

Conclusion

A classic Football Weekly episode blending passionate footballing insight, witty banter, and memorable moments—from Sunderland’s “meme-worthy” derby own goal to the soap opera around Mo Salah. The panel covers the highs and lows of the Premier League and beyond, with plenty for football obsessives to chew on, and memorable anecdotes that bring the weekend’s action vividly to life.

---

For Further Listening:
The next episode will feature Football Weekly’s Christmas Eve mailbag special. Submit questions to [e-mail]

Transcript

[Max Rushden]

This is the Guardian.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday. Because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah, give it a [e-mail] Upfront payment.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required New customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow. 135 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra.

[Herobred Ad Voice]

See mint mobile.com Holidays mean feasting. From cheddar biscuits to French toast bakes, Herobred has you covered with 0 to 5 grams net carb and high fiber options to ensure your holidays stay delicious and balanced. Like their 3 grams net carb pan au chocolat, Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use code fall25 at checkout. That's fall25 at HERO CO. All figures are per serving of Herobred contains up to 17 grams of fat per serving. See the product nutrition panels on Hero Co for more information.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Nicholas Voltimada puts himself into folklore in the Weirtine Derby, but probably not quite how he hoped in a weekend of own goals. His was the pick. Poor bloke. A standing ovation from the Sunderland fans when he was substituted. He'll have to have some Newcastle career now to be loved more by his own fans. Football is brutal. Perhaps he can start a support group with Jerson Mosquera.

[Robin Cousins]

Poor wolves.

[Barry Glendenning]

They dug in at the Emirates. Equalised in the last minute before the Colombian headed into his own net. Is there a worse way to lose? Mo Salah back in the squad and on the pitch in the first half for Liverpool, he played okay, but not as well as hugo ekatike. Another two for him. Enzo Maresca has the worst 48 hours as Chelsea manager. Thomas Frank has a pretty normal 90 minutes as spurs manager. Man City remain ominous, Villa keep the pressure on and Fulham break their turf. More hoodoo. The new Celtic manager, Wilfred Nancy, hasn't had an ideal start to his tenure. Three defeats in three as St Mirren win the Scottish League Cup. All that plus your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Welcome.

[Robin Cousins]

Hello, Max.

[Barry Glendenning]

Hello, Robin Cowan.

[Nada Manua]

Hi, Max.

[Barry Glendenning]

And good morning. Nada Manua.

[Max Rushden]

Morning, Max.

[Barry Glendenning]

Let's start then at the Stadium of light. Sunderland 1, Newcastle nil. Nick Voltameter's 46 minute own goal you were there, Barry, how was it?

[Robin Cousins]

I was there. Max, it's very kind of you to give this game top billing because this was a staggeringly bad game of football, but a wonderful occasion for me as a Sunderland fan. I got up to Sunderland on Saturday evening and I went to the pub to watch Fulham. Burnley, because that's how I roll and. Or Burnley. Fulham, I should say. And yeah, it was quite the experience. I don't know if it's like that every Saturday in Sunderland or just because it was the Eve of Derby, but a lot of people out, very festive atmosphere. Sleeping Beauty was on in the Union Theater Panto and loads of people in Christmas jumpers. Everyone having a lovely time. Not too long after that game ended, news broke of the death of Sunderland legend Gary Roll after a long illness. And it was like someone had flicked a switch. Just everything went very calm or quiet and maudlin and you could see people were generally upset by that. Gary, sorry, before my time. But he famously scored a hat trick in tynwear derby at St James's park when both teams were in Division Two in 1979. So he's held in very high regard. Local lad held in very high regard at Sunderland. So they had a minute's applause before the game for him and that went. I think it was more. It went on and on and on and on before the ref finally blew his whistle and the game got started. Terrible game like. I watched the highlights again on Match of the Day this morning and it was quite telling that I think their first half highlights consisted of three or four bookings. The Sunderland Tifo and Dan Burn getting clattered and having to go off with damaged ribs. Needless to say, he got a very unsympathetic reception from the Sunderland fans. And then shortly after halftime, Nick Voltmeyde scored that bullet header past his own goalkeeper. It turned out to be the match winner. Neither team were particularly good. Sunderland at least tried to play a bit of football with limited success. I think by the time Volta May scored that goal, neither neither team had had a shot on target or even a shot maybe so a very low on quality. But the Sunderland fans didn't care, didn't give a hoop. And then after the game, Sunderland exacted revenge on on Newcastle, who had famously taken that selfie in front of their fans stadium alight when they spotted Sunderland aside in the FA cup two years ago. So Sunderland took a selfie in front of their fans. I think it was Jason Tindle who masterminded that, that stunt at the stadium. Light. And after the game I was working in in the media room and I went outside, go on the life giving apparatus that is my vape. And who should I see scuttling out the door and into the back of a people carrier like, like some mob boss being ushered from a courtroom. But Mr. Jason Tindle, head down, scurrying away into the back of the car and he was driven off into the night. So that was kind of funny but brilliant result for Sunderland. I, I think Newcastle fans will try to pretend they don't care about this because they've got bigger fish to fry. But this was a bad defeat for them. They really didn't turn up. Anthony Gordon Valade and Anthony Elanga, their front three were dismal like so bad. I was shocked by how bad they were. But thank you Nick for your telling contribution. It. It is quite, it's quite an achievement to be a fan favorite with Newcastle fans, but even more of a fan favorite with Sunderland at the same time.

[Barry Glendenning]

That is a moment that will live with him forever. Nate. That's the brutality of football actually. The beauty of football and rivalry is that is. It's memes straight away, it's T shirts. There'll be songs about him at the Stadium of Light now, forever, unless he does something extraordinary when he plays, you know, at St. James's park against London or in the next two, three years or whatever. Like that is a moment like and it sort of feels slightly unfair for like some 23 year old German who just tipped up a few months ago.

[Max Rushden]

Listen, you've always got to be careful when you bring in fairness, like what does that mean to you? What that means to you might be different to somebody else, but you are right, that goal will be remembered forever. I think you could, he could be great in the next derbies to come. But he still scored the winning goal for Sunderland against Newcastle in his first, in his first derby. You won't be able to escape that and yeah, as a young person he's going to be thinking about that and maybe motivates him to do better in the future. But you can't erase history. That goal will be shown over and over and over and over. And in some ways it's kind of because of what Barry said because there's not much else we could show from the game itself. But from my perspective, that game in itself, it's not a great game of football, but I think it's a brilliant derby. I think the way that it finished as well kind of summed it up in added Time. Everyone's this like fake fisty cuffs, tough guy routine, which we've all been through, we're all doing that. The ball's coming in the box. How do you defend a kitchen sink? Well, you headbutt it apparently. You just keep doing that. Ball goes out to the side. I think it's Trey Hume putting a tackle on. I don't know who it was. And that got one of the loudest cheers in the stadium as well because of what it means in that moment. So that chaos and that level of competitiveness where it goes beyond the football because the, every fan in there was alright with you doing that on this day, I think you'd be judged according to different standards for different games. But in that, in that match itself, they want to see your players fight, they want to see them battle. And yeah, you know, at some point you would like to see a bit more creativity but without that first part people aren't going to be happy with you. So yeah, to go back to it for Voltimada, like he, he will not be able to escape that while he's living in the Northeast. He will not be able to escape that. And while anyone in the Northeast is gonna have any sort of link to his social media or whatever, he will not be able to escape it doesn't matter how well he'. But yeah, I've got to say awkwardly, it's a great header, it's such a good header but unfortunately it's just in the wrong night, isn't it?

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean if he, if he, if he really looks ahead, Robin, he can do the art in 20, 30 years, the after dinners or maybe 40 years for him, like it's a good, he's got an anecdote that, you know, you only need two or three to base a career on. I would in my experience. So like maybe that's a positive. Now a lot of people, Robin, are comparing this to the Ian Dow ev Stockport header and I, I mean I'm firmly in the camp that Dowie is superior, far superior to this. But I don't know what you think.

[Nada Manua]

I mean, I think they might have to, he might, they might have to sell him. I just think, I don't. In January, I just. Yeah, I know he's done pretty well but I just think this is, this couldn't have gone worse for, for Volta Marder and, and for New. I mean is that, is that anything more delicious as a, as a Sunderland fan that their sort of star striker gets the winner for you? I just, it's just a Bit too rich. It's. It's just incredible. Yeah. I mean, it just must have been great. You've got Granite Jacques, bloody like Bruce Willis and Die Hard. It's just. It was just honestly looks like the perfect day for Sunderland. What I would say is that the only thing I. I did notice was, was Brian Brobie perhaps could have been sent off. And it's interesting. I mean, Nadum might. Might come in on this, but I don't know, would you prefer a yellow for someone brandishing a. A pretend card or for crunching someone's ankle? I think, you know, and that. That one didn't get one. It's just. Yeah, but, but I mean, it's Sunderland. I mean, I think also the context has been lost a bit, hasn't it? Sunderland, that's another win for them. You know, they're seventh. It's just what a season. What a season they're having. It's. It's so, so impressive.

[Barry Glendenning]

I think, you know, Bruce Willis is slightly more bloodied had Jacque been in a string vest and literally caked in blood.

[Max Rushden]

I was going to say, in regards to the card situation, I'm just going to turn a blind eye to that. As a former Sunderland player, I'm going to say everything's fine with it, but in terms of like, own goal tears. So this is obviously a very good one. But for the purists of 90s football in particular, Man City, Jamie Pollock in 1998, true. Against QPR, if a striker would have scored that goal, you'd probably say it's goal this season. So you need to look into that one. Yeah. So.

[Barry Glendenning]

So Pollock, Pollock lifts the ball over an attacker somehow and then heads it home.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah.

[Barry Glendenning]

The reason I love Dow is it Dow is against Stockport. I think it's R West Ham and I think it's. It's the Dagoner Motors sponsor, sort of 90s. I think it must be a League cup game. It's that he, I think, momentarily forgets where he is. Like he. He is. He rises and he heads the ball back where it's come from. It's like this Volta, there is. There is pace on the cross. You can see Volta is just trying to get it away.

[Max Rushden]

Right.

[Barry Glendenning]

It is still a brilliant Edda, but like Dawi's is absolute pure. Like he doesn't need to head it, but he's risen highest and he's put it in. And a notable mention for Chris Brass. I can't remember maybe playing for Torquay. Who kicks the ball against his own Face I believe breaks his nose and heads and heads home in an fa. I think it's an FA cup match. Really good stuff. Just on Newcastle Nadum like there's slight issues about. I mean they're having a bit of a bad season. I know this has not been fit but when you look at Volta Marder 70 million who did start brilliantly, scores like beautiful goals but his tail off a little bit. Alanga hasn't hit the ground running. Jacob Ramsey was left on the bench. 40 million like that's 150 odd million of recruitment that hasn't clicked yet.

[Max Rushden]

I think as my view on things like this is these signings are long term signings. You'd want them to click and hit the ground running and be great for the length of the contracts. Four, five years, six years, whatever it's going to be. But in reality that's very rarely the case and I think with equality that Newcastle have and other teams have had as well, when new transfers come in you can afford to not necessarily have them play so well. Yeah, Ramsay's one with injury and so on has been disappointing. I thought Alanga would have played more to be honest. But then lo and behold I'm probably one of thousands of people that is just like disrespecting Murphy who literally continues to get goals and assists for them essentially all the time. Like what, what, what does he do wrong? So yeah, it's not great. I think they're very much trapped in mid table here. It's really, really weird. But then we watch them play in the Champions League and get some good results in the Champions League as well. So we almost raise our belief in them. Oh these are a really good side because they can travel around Europe and get good results against good sides. But when it comes down to domestic football, 21 goals scored, 20 goals conceded, sitting exactly in mid table, you know. Welcome to the Premier League again.

[Barry Glendenning]

I guess Robin Yersin Mosquera must have thought he'd scored like the most pivotal headed home goal of the weekend at about 9:45 on on Saturday night.

[Robin Cousins]

Poor wolves.

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean they dug it, they got two points. They go at Arsenal at top of the table. They, Arsenal aren't great but wolves play well, they defend well and like I don't know, maybe just the release of that equalizer because it was like every player did his own individual knee slide wherever he happened to be on the pitch and you think oh they've expended too much energy in this celebration.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah, no it was, it was absolutely heartbreaking, wasn't it for them. And it probably. It was their best performance under Rob Edwards. What I would say is that I think I'm not that surprised because when you're facing top of the league, it's almost like no one gives them any chance whatsoever. So it sort of focuses the mind and. And maybe they do raise their game a bit. So I wouldn't be actually that surprised if they sort of reverted to type. They've got Brentford next at home, and so this will raise. You know, Rob Edwards will be saying, you need to play like that again, and I'm just not sure if they will. But, yeah, the manner of the defeat was absolutely heartbreaking because, yeah, they think they've got a point. As you say, the celebrations are amazing. And then they score yet another own goal.

[Barry Glendenning]

Scored all the goals. They scored all the goals.

[Nada Manua]

All the goals. Every single goal. Yeah. I mean, the Johnston won him again was just so. It's so unlucky, isn't it? Just, you know, off the post, off his back, just. How's your luck?

[Max Rushden]

So they celebrate that goal, their goal. Sorry, the goal that was helping them, not the other goal in a positive way because they've only scored nine all season. You know, that's something that we sort of take for granted sometimes. Like, everybody's scoring, everybody's celebrating, but they're essentially as far as football goals just in the pits of hell right now. There's nothing good going for them whatsoever. And I like to. Unfortunately, I've had to look through this. When you. When you're in around the bottom three, the most important thing is what's the gap to get out of the bottom three? And for them at the moment, it's 14 points. It's fair to say that morale probably is not going to be as high as it's ever been at Wolves. So you do need to celebrate those, like, little moments. And people, they won't officially write themselves off yet, but after 16 games and you've not won one, the chances are that it's done. You know what I mean? So you're going out and you're trying to find positives and so on. And now we're 11 with Arsenal. What an incredible moment for us as bottom of the team. And then it's an own goal. That game finishes. You go sit in the dressing room. Rob Edwards, who's in the grand scheme of things, new to it, can try and speak of positives, but for those players, like, what do you do? You're like a very. You're almost like the plus One that's been invited to this Premier League season and you know, you've kind of forgotten about. They'll pull a little table to. But you still know, you know, you are at some point good enough to be there, but you've got nothing going for you at all. So, like I say, that's heartbreaking. I've been in those situations where you've lost those games late and to snide goals or whatever, but this is unfortunately the way that football goes. And yeah, for them, it would be nice to see them potentially win a game. Except for, I think when I was at qpr, up until recently, we had the record for most games to start a season without a win. And I think it was around 15, 16, it was around this time of year. But we weren't on two points, I'll tell you that for a fact. We had a few more points than that.

[Nada Manua]

Okay.

[Max Rushden]

But thankfully Sheffield United took that, I think three years ago, and now it seems like wolves well on the way to putting us third worst ever.

[Barry Glendenning]

Now, as for Arsenal, is this a sign of grinding out results or with City breathing down their necks, would you, as an Arsenal fan, get slightly concerned? They lost to Villa. They were okay in that video game. They weren't great in this one. You know, like, is. Is this, is this their little, you know, their little rut, and if they're winning in that rut, it's okay.

[Robin Cousins]

I don't think this particular game was a case of them grinding out result. I think they got very lucky and, you know, take it, take it, forget about it. Put that performance behind you and move on. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. They were lucky here to win. If this is the rush, then what a nice rut to be in if you're still winning the games. If I was Michael Arteta, I'd be furious with that performance. I thought, I think I said last week, I thought he took the Villa defeat on the chin and went fair enough. We didn't. We weren't terrible, we just lost and that happens. But if they drop points here, I. I imagine he would have been furious. I'd say he's probably furious anyway. But there's no question they got lucky here.

[Max Rushden]

Arsenal, they're still, for me, they've been the most consistent team in the league so far this year, which is White. Feels strange that they're only two points clear at the top of the table, but the run of fixtures that are coming up for them. I thought after the last international break there was going to be a Tough run. And they were going to see where they were at based on that. And they went against Bayern Munich. I think the result against Chelsea, fine, whatever, hammered Spurs. So I thought they're in a good position the next few games. And this is me looking at thinking, all of a sudden it feels a bit different. They've got Everton away next week at 8 o' clock on the Saturday, I think it is. Then at home to Brighton, at home to Villa, again away to Bournemouth, then at home to Liverpool. Whereas, say two, three weeks ago, you can feel there's a sense of belief and they're just going to steamroll everyone. All of a sudden you start making the case that maybe it's not going to be that easy. And I think the players and the manager know it's never going to be that easy. But for every time you show weakness or you show something that encourages the opposition, the opposition will take that opportunity and set up differently to play against you. And I think Arsenal starting to drift towards that position and obviously they might still win the league title and so on, and they need people behind them to be chasing. But this run of fixtures coming up now, again we'll test them in a manner which, you know, really decide whether they are going to be Premier League champions or not, especially with the injuries and stuff that they have at this moment.

[Barry Glendenning]

Liverpool be Brighton two nil. I mean, Robin, this game should be about Hugo Katike, but it's still all about Mo Salah. Like, whatever happened, like, if he, if Salah's like came on as he did and did okay, that's a story. If he started, that'd be a huge story. If he was on the bench and didn't come on, which is sort of the one, you know, we kind of wanted because it would have been funny. Like there would have been a massive story in the end. He comes ON in the 26th minute, you feel for Joe Gomez and everyone's going, are you sure? Is this Joe just going, I've been asked to do this, but obviously, you know, that isn't what happened. It's a shame for him because, you know, he's had real injury problems, but it's still the saddest story. I just wonder what you made of, of this, this, you know, episode in the series.

[Nada Manua]

My main takeaway is, I think Slot has played this absolutely, brilliantly, perfectly the way he's done this. What he said has been sort of without ego. He's been very adult about it and he's not said much at all. He said kind of the bare minimum and he's kind of not closed the door on Salah and he's not added fuel to the fire. I think what was surprising for me I don't cover Liverpool that much I'm not like involved in the club. I was quite surprised by the reception he got. It was kind of unanimously positive wasn't it from the from inside Anfield and I think that's just illustrates again how well Slot has done because he could probably recognize that that you can't even though he's not indispensable anymore Mo Salah and rightly you know shouldn't be starting every single game. You kind of can't as I say you kind of set fire to this situation because the fans still absolutely love him. So I just think Slot has really been, has been great and it but he probably is thinking thank Christ he's going now so I can kind of to the Afghans and I can don't have to, don't have to deal with this anymore. I mean you know obviously he still can contribute and he got an assist didn't he? Yeah so it's just I feel like Slot deserves a lot a lot of credit for this.

[Barry Glendenning]

It's a much loved nan at Christmas but who's really snide to you just in the. And then, and then when they leave at 5pm you're like ah you can finally relax and enjoy the rest of the day.

[Nada Manua]

He's gonna have a lie down now.

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean I don't know if you saw this Barry. Soccer Saturday did about five minutes of like raging debate about how happy or sad Mo Salah looked when he walked into Anfield and he was just sort of like he just wasn't like grinning like a madman as he as he wandered into the place but he did get a nice ovation. I guess the two things can be true at the same time. What he did was wrong and going public was wrong but he can still be loved by the Liverpool fans because he is you know he is one of their greatest players of all time and Liverpool have had some really good players during all time.

[Robin Cousins]

They certainly have. Yeah I didn't see the, the five minutes of debate on Soccer Saturday but you know they have a lot of time to fill Soccer Saturday. It's about an eight hour show so that's fine. I am a keen student of players getting off the bus and walking into the stadium. Do they wear Beats headphones? Do they wear buds? Are they chewing furiously? Do they shake hands with the waiting club officials? Do they steadfastly ignore them. Yeah. I think you can tell a lot about players by the way they get off the team bus. See also how they deal with mascots in the tunnel. Do they ignore them, do they chat to them, do they attempt to put them at their ease etc and so on. But that's me just being weird, I guess.

[Barry Glendenning]

Or you auditioning for Soccer Saturday, it sounded like, to me.

[Robin Cousins]

Yeah. I mean, look, it's, it's. I suppose it's like a family member or what do they call it, the kids call a friendship group. If someone massively Fs up, you know, you. You bollock them out of it, but you can't stay mad at them for long and you forgive them and welcome them back into the fold and it happens. People mess up all the time. So I, I totally get that. They might have been a bit annoyed with him, but there's no point in further antagonizing him. And he is Mo Salah. He has done a lot for them.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah. And he might. Oh, Natum. Hello. What comes after the. Mmm.

[Max Rushden]

I'm going to start this off by saying, obviously I'm not a Liverpool fan, so their perspective is going to be very different to say, my one here. Yeah. But I think it's interesting, this whole spell, because it's shown that those goal posts that we thought were very much stuck in the ground actually have some wheels on them and they will move however you want, depending on who it is. Because, say, from the perspective of what Saleh came out and said a week ago, like, a lot of that stuff just by itself felt quite selfish within an instance where everyone else is trying to be selfless as they discuss their football club. And a lot of people said, that's wrong. Like they understood that he'd be upset based on his standing, but they said it was wrong and he said it was wrong and he did something that was out in the public and I'm all for forgiveness and so on, but I thought, well, obviously Salah's gonna apologise in the public as well then, but for me personally, I've not seen that. So the ability to move on that quickly and then you wonder, well, what was his punishment? Well, he didn't travel to Milan midweek, but then he was still back in the squad for the week after, I think. I don't think every player gets afforded that sort of luxury. And if it's based on, say, what Salah's done to this point, then it kind of confirms what Salah was saying in his messaging Anyway, that I've done so much that I should be starting. I've done so much that, you know, you can't treat me like this. And in some ways that makes me feel it's a bit uncomfortable. Like just a bit uncomfortable. But then again, it shows. As I say, the goalpost will move if you, if you like a player or if you don't. So then the next time we go the opposite way around a particular player that sounds disgruntled. Well, we're just gonna have to get called hypocrites because that's essentially what's happened.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah. But then I guess then it isn't a precedent because you can treat different players differently depending on how good they are, I guess.

[Max Rushden]

Listen, I'm 100% okay with that. Yeah. But it's just when people say this is the standard, this is the way it should be and I'm like, ah, come on, man. Like, how about this or how about that? It just depends where your standing is. I think I do some work with like James Alcott and he made a. He was making a discussion point about different types of player and I thought it was a really good one because he said there's the. In fact, in fact he used it in relation to workplaces. There are the newbies who are almost just happy to be there. There are the workers who, you know, do what they do and they're always like, you know, they can always be replaced and so on. Then there are the ones who are at that higher sort of tier. And for me personally, like, obviously I've never had the importance of like a mo salah to any football club. So I'm very much in the worker section. But when you start drifting down towards the worker section because your output isn't as great as say it has been in times gone by, then the way that you carry yourself should be looked at in a way of more of a worker as opposed to the person that's indispensable. Welcome to our club. But instead it's the opposite.

[Barry Glendenning]

Someone throwing mo salah high vis and a shovel. Yeah, come over here.

[Max Rushden]

We work longer hours over here, my friend. You know what I mean? Listen everyone, I'm happy that he's happy, Liverpool are happy, so on and so forth. But there's been a lot of contradiction in terms of how people have approached it because of the fact that it's mo salah, in my opinion.

[Barry Glendenning]

Sure.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah.

[Barry Glendenning]

Well, we'll have lots of time to talk Liverpool and not mo salah during afcon. But yeah, well done. Hugo tk, you deserve more conversation than you got. And that'll do for part one. Part two will begin with Aston Villa's continued rise.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday. Because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed Flow Hacker 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra.

[Herobred Ad Voice (Alternate)]

See mint mobile.com Holidays mean feasting. From cheddar biscuits to French toast bakes, Herobred has you covered with 0 to 5 grams net carb and high fiber options to ensure your holidays stay delicious and balanced. Like their 3 grams net carb pan au chocolat, Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use code fall25 at checkout. That's fall25hero co. All figures are per serving of Hero bread. Contains up to 17 grams of fat per serving. See the product nutrition panels on Hero Co for more information.

[Max Rushden]

Foreign.

[Barry Glendenning]

To part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. So West Ham 2, Aston Villa 3. Last four away games. Villa have gone behind in. They've come back to win. This was their sixth win in a row. They are third. They're three points off Arsenal. Nine wins in a row in all competitions. 15 wins in 17. This is a ridiculous run, Barry.

[Robin Cousins]

And the talk now, and it's the chatter started last week when they beat Arsenal. Do we consider Villa to be title contenders? Are they in the conversation? And I would have said no, but the reason I would have said no last week and I think I did said no is because a Villa don't win titles. Really? They've won one in my lifetime. I think that was a very long time ago. I would have been nine at the time. Another reason I would have said no is because having beaten Arsenal last week, going to West Ham and losing would be a typically Villa thing to do. And it looked like that was what was going to happen. But they showed great fortitude. Had a bit of help from West Ham, it must be said, but they showed great fortitude to come back and win. So, yeah, maybe they are in the conversation, I think they have to be. But it's a remarkable run they're on and we see other teams struggle with the Thursday, Sunday, life balance. Villa don't seem to be having any problems with it at all. Unlike say Newcastle or Palace who to that leap immediately to mind.

[Barry Glendenning]

And Morgan Rogers Robin just. Oh, that the second goal is just. It just looks so effort. He makes it look like every footballer should be able to do that every time they shoot.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah, no, he does it. The technique on it looks like it's deflected almost. No, it's.

[Max Rushden]

He.

[Nada Manua]

He's. He's ridiculous. I mean, he's another one that's come through the sort of City academy, isn't he? And he's just. He. He's fantastic. He's having a great season and I think Tuka will start him. I think, you know that his body of work for England and for. And for Aston Villa this season, I just think. I know we'll come on to spurs, unfortunately, Max. But it's just like they. They obviously gifted West Ham a goal very early on, didn't they? ESRI cons are making a big mistake. But they have that aura now and that momentum and that confidence that you think, no, they'll be all right. They'll come back from this. And. And they did. And I think, yeah, just in contrast to some other teams, you just think, you know, shoulders drop and all that. You know, they have a great squad. I think, yeah, that. That might be the only thing is that, you know, an injury to say a Rodgers or someone who's really integral to them might. Might put a stop to it also. I mean, I think it's still. It's a bit of a concern. Ollie Watkins is still not firing in front of Goldberg. Needs him to do a little bit. Little bit more.

[Barry Glendenning]

But no, I mean he was quite near Mavra Palos when he.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah, yeah. I think Mavra palace would be fine to give that to him as was mascara. But yeah, no, and it's just love, isn't it? Lovely to see you and I Emory jumping for joy. I. I like it. I enjoy that.

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean I had a real Barry moment for before the Morgan Rogers second when Lindelof passed to him and I said, hang on. I had been told that. Really. Anyway, Emery says we're not feeling under pressure, we're feeling ambitious. We try to challenge in Europe and in the Premier League. Enjoy each match, try to prepare, then rest. The players must be. Must feel comfortable doing it. This is the process we're doing now. It's Manchester United next Sunday. Meanwhile, West Hamlet. Lovely tributes for to Billy Bonds before the game. They got Man City away Next. And don't you worry for West Ham, Nadum. I mean, you do, don't you? Because there, it looks like there are two slots comfortably filled. Wolves and you know, Burnley, if that's not too harsh on Burnley. And then West Ham are, you know, they're there, aren't they?

[Max Rushden]

They are there, but they're also three points behind Leeds. Do you. Back in Leeds. 100 to be not 100.

[Barry Glendenning]

That would be quite bold at this.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, I'm worried for them. Do you know what? No, I'm, I'm not. I'm not incredibly worried for them. I think they can find a good run of form and there's some teams who are sliding down the table sneakily without, you know, we were kind of getting away with it at the moment. So say, for example, Bournemouth play United tonight. But Bournemouth was just on 20 points. They're on one of the worst runs in the league. But because, you know, we like the manager and you know, we like their attacking football, everything's fine. We don't really give them, pay them too much mind. And then Brentford as Well, they're on 20 points. So West Ham, within the space of say, a good week's worth of football, which is very doable around December, January time, you could find yourself in a, in a better situation. But I don't think the, for me, the, the bar as such is how you doing against Villa, who are the form side in the whole division. So I'm, I'm quite calm on that. But yeah, it is tight. Is tense down then, is it? Did you guys see some news article about there being a ban on like half and half scarves at the London Stadium? Have you seen that?

[Barry Glendenning]

I've not seen it. I'm not against it. I mean, I think it seems extreme.

[Max Rushden]

But see, that's what I mean.

[Barry Glendenning]

Half and half West Ham Villa. Half and half scarf. That's seems like a lost leader to me.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, my sister, yeah, my sister sent me the thing and initially I thought, oh, that, you know, that has to be fake obviously because like a half and a half scar for as much as most of us don't really get them or would want to have them, like to be banning them. Feels like it's a bit much. You know what I mean? I feel like they're probably bigger and more pressing issues that go on the.

[Robin Cousins]

West Ham board need to get it or.

[Max Rushden]

Exactly, yeah. I was like, oh, maybe this is like a political diversion and there's some distraction and there's something else happening somewhere. But yeah, if that's where we're at. To where, like the biggest issue at the stadium is, you know, the half and half scars, then maybe I will be a bit more concerned.

[Robin Cousins]

This is like David Sullivan racking, settling his car keys. Look at the shiny.

[Barry Glendenning]

Although producer Joel did once have a great idea for half and half scarves with me and Barry's face on, which didn't sell as well as he hoped on the Internet.

[Robin Cousins]

So there are, by the way, about 50, 000 of those in Guardian Towers, cluttering up the. The sports desk. If, if you want any Max for.

[Barry Glendenning]

Chris for Christmas, I'm fine. But, you know, what's the merchandise page? Come on. We should, we should start selling them again online feverishly. Go and buy one.

[Robin Cousins]

There's some famous bar in New York. I can't remember what it's called, but it's full of sports memorabilia and a friend of mine gave them a Barry and Max half and half scarf and it's up, up on the wall, so.

[Barry Glendenning]

Oh, good. I'm pleased it's not just there. It's an emergency toilet brush. Let's go to South Park. Palace Nil City 3. Oliver Glasner said afterwards that City were better in and around both boxes, which I feel Robin is important in football. I mean, he is right, isn't he? Because both sides had chances. But Harlan's header is brilliant, Foden's finish is brilliant. And there you are. And then City win the game.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah, but it wasn't a 3 nil. You didn't fit when you actually watched it. When I saw the. The score, I thought, well, okay, they've been, you know, comfortably beaten here. But palace had a lot of chances, didn't they? And it just shows that the man, City sort of machine isn't quite there in terms of maybe out of possession. I mean, Adam Wharton again was afforded too much space. He was playing those beautiful outside of the boot passes as he did against Fulham. Pinot hit the bar. Wharton off the post. I think there were, you know, they had quite a few chances, but then, yeah, Haaland, as we've seen so many times, does very little. And then a great header. Foden with a. With a great finish. The accuracy he has with his left foot is. Is incredible. The highlight for me though was Thomas Tuchel and his bag of sweets.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah.

[Nada Manua]

A long time. That suggests to me that. Yeah, no, he was. He didn't choose those himself, so he was really rooting around for the ones that he wanted. And it seemed like there was very few in There that. That really tickled his fancy. It was like looking for the egg for the Haribo or the. The love heart. And there was his. Who's his.

[Barry Glendenning]

Phil Neal. Who this Anthony Barry, you've got the wrong pick and mix.

[Robin Cousins]

I. I suspect that was media center pick and mix bag. Some press rooms, they leave out bags of sweets, so. And that. That's the kind of bag it is the white and red stripe or pink stripes.

[Barry Glendenning]

So this is the sort of insight people come to this podcast for.

[Robin Cousins]

That. And by the way, on the subject of press box house or media room hospitality, congratulations to all at Sunderland for what was a wonderful. I'm not a turkey fan, but turkey and bacon pie with mash and pigs in blankets and gravy for lunch yesterday. Lovely.

[Barry Glendenning]

Thank you, Barry. Sorry to bring it back to football, Naden, but on that, on that England 10 situation where you have all these Man City graduates of Rogers, Palmer and Foden and then you have Bellingham as well. I don't need you to rank them, but it's an interesting. It's a.

[Max Rushden]

It's a.

[Barry Glendenning]

Is it a good problem to have? I think as a manager, I'd rather just have one really brilliant one and it was just obvious.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah. So I think, I think in some ways it is a problem, but it's only a problem because in my opinion, Harry Kane is the one that affects them more than any other. I think if Harry Kane was more of like a traditional number nine, he wouldn't be coming short with the. And have his passing range and so on, and was essentially playing on the shoulder with the finishing that he has. Then I think you could take your pick of any of those tens and sort of decide which game was the right one for them. But then instead it's more so a case of, well, who can complement Harry Kane's tendencies? You know, I could be off the mark without Thomas Tuchel might see it a different way. But if you've got, say like the tens that will always come short and try and look for those three balls, if you're doing that, then you look up and Harry Kane standing alongside you says, well, who's this going to go to? Instead, you know, seeing Phil Foden doing well, see Morgan Rogers doing well, seeing Cole Palmer get back in this weekend and score a goal as well, and, you know, this forgets even the likes, people we've had a chance before, like Morgan Gibbs White, for example, and Jude Bellingham. Although Real Madrid aren't at their absolute best. When you see some of his DYNAMISM you're thinking, okay, this guy's like, he's back here. So all of a sudden like Tuchel does have too many of them again because of the fact you're trying to compliment Harry Kane. And it'll be a shame because I reckon probably three of those guys aren't even going to get in the squad for the summer. And it's a case of, well, who's that going to be?

[Herobred Ad Voice (Alternate)]

Sure.

[Max Rushden]

And as.

[Barry Glendenning]

And if England don't win brackets. When England don't win, that'll be what we can throw at Tuchel. He can't win unless he wins, I guess. Let's go sadly to the city ground for Notting Forest three Spurs nil. And it feels like. And maybe I don't think this is just my spurs bias. However hard we tried to give Forest credit for this win and they were brilliant in this game, it will turn into a Spurs inquest Robin because when they are bad, they are so bad. It's sort of. It's like they do nothing. Like nothing. They just all just sort of limply wander about and it just sort of become this like the sort of amoeba just sort of flopping around. The football pitch is extraordinary.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah. Joe Hart said on Match the Day. It's like when they lose, it is ugly, isn't it? This is the problem. It's not like there's never a glorious defeat. It is bad. It is, It's. It's bad. And yeah, I mean, so I don't want to blame Archie Gray for that goal. Okay. Because he looks 10 years old. No, but I don't want. He's asked. Yes, he's asking for it. But does he have to. To. Does the vicario have to give it to him?

[Max Rushden]

You could. He could play it one touch. He could play it one touch across to the side. That's the issue.

[Nada Manua]

He looks like 10 years old. I just don't want.

[Barry Glendenning]

Anyway, so sad. And he's played really well with. He looks so sad. Yeah.

[Nada Manua]

So sad. But you know, I mean, it could have been a sad bit like Trump then. He could have been. They could have had more goals, couldn't they? Nasi and Forest, they. It was just. Yeah, it was a proper collapse and yeah, they've. Spurs haven't won two in a row in the Premier League since the opening two games in August. And I'm massively biased because I adore Thomas Frank as a manager and also as a person. I've dealt with him a lot and. But it just seems like. And again I don't know if Nadam has an opinion on this, but I'm just worried when, when a, when a coach comes from a, you know, so called smaller club, which, you know, Brentford are. I don't think you're afforded as much time certainly by the supporters because they're like, well, the job's too big for him. But is it the same as the players as well? I don't know. I don't know.

[Max Rushden]

It's a great question. It's a great question finally on this.

[Barry Glendenning]

Part, a great question.

[Max Rushden]

Yes, it took 40 minutes, but it's a great question. We're here now, we're here now.

[Robin Cousins]

Took eight years, Nathan.

[Max Rushden]

Well, true, true, true, true. Unfortunately, I think as I see spurs right now is starting to feel a little bit like how say for example, somebody thought of like Graham Potter when he was at Chelsea or you could argue maybe this matters may sound like a Nuno that you've seen before at spurs, but spurs are trapped in this position to where they're not, you know, one of those teams that's going to be winning the league as such, but they carry a level of expectation that, you know, you need to have some level of gravitas almost. And Thomas Frank, from what I'm hearing, is like an incredible guy, you know, really like thoughtful coach in terms of how he wants to do things, but it's not really driving the impact and the outcomes that say they need as a side because they, as you look at, say some of the teams up near the top now, one thing about them is like they can all outplay you and so on, but they're all like really tough and physical and when they want to go to battle and so on. But when spurs do collapse, you're right, it is really, really poor. And to add to that, because the link, I don't know if you actually see this the same way, Max, but there was a point a couple of years ago where it says, well, you know, we've had Conte, we've had Mourinho, but what we want, we want attacking football. There are times under Thomas Frank where the game will be finished. And I know not everyone's into XG, but it might say like 0.3 and you're like, well, what was that? That was somebody that like had a shot in the 10th minute of the game from 12 yards out and it got blocked. That's the highlight of the attacking potential that's there. And when the defensive side of things also isn't there, then ultimately you're watching A game of long throws and set pieces which I'm sure isn't necessarily what most spurs fans would want. Would you say that's fair? Max Richardson?

[Barry Glendenning]

I think that's fair, yeah. Afterwards, he said, in terms of. He said, I think it's pretty evident that if no one gets the time, no one can turn this around. This is not a quick fix. Today was a very bad performance. No two ways about that. But also know that to change this will, this will take some time. No one won't want to hear about that. It's just reality. Which, Barry, is what I would say if I was a manager under pressure. I wanted to stay, but I mean, I don't disagree. Like it's Matt, you can't. Well, you can get rid. I don't know. They, they, they win enough to go, oh, maybe it's different, you know, they, they'd won the last two and you're okay, maybe. And then they just do. Then they just throughout this pancake.

[Robin Cousins]

Well, it's, it's Spurs.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robin Cousins]

You see, it's all very well saying you need time and we will get to Celtic later, I guess, but other managers can do. Perform heroics without needing time. And you know, we famously have, you know, barely pointing out that Thomas Tucu came into Chelsea and sorted them out in an afternoon whip their defense into shape. So not everyone needs time. And I only saw highlights of this game. But watching Frank being interviewed afterwards, he, you know, he was asked if he's under pressure, you know, asked again, are you still under pressure? And he said, well, it's not just me under pressure. It's me, it's my staff, it's the players, it's everyone at the club. And I'm, I'm thinking, no, Thomas, it's very much you, you're under pressure because they're not going to sack the team. The board aren't going to sack themselves. So it's him that's going to be shoved out into a hail of bullets. No matter how many or how much blame there is to go around. I really like Thomas Frank. I want him to succeed. I thought he would succeed. And he just seems to have Messi's match in spurs and everything that club stands for.

[Nada Manua]

I think we probably should give credit to Nottingham Forest. I think Forest fans might be shouting at us just because, you know, they were great and I mean, the Sangari goal was lovely. Cutting across. He's obviously going to afcon. I just want with Sha d someone. And also Everton fans might be, might be angry at me. But is this like the best squad he's had to work with? Especially forward areas. They've got attacking, like really good attacking talent. Just wonder what he can do, you know, with, with Nottingham Forest and, and.

[Barry Glendenning]

They were playing lovely.

[Max Rushden]

They were.

[Barry Glendenning]

I mean they weren't playing anything but they were playing lovely football. Like they were playing like really crisp. One touch on the deck. It was not Daishi and it was. This is really impressive and you know the way much that they broke down sort of their press and stuff, I thought, yeah, I mean you'd be really enthused and I mean I wasn't enthused because I was watching from a very, very biased perspective. It is worth reading out Tottenham's tweet from yesterday where they said, look, given today's horrific events in Sydney, we recognize wishing our Jewish fans a happy Hanukkah may seem hollow at this incredibly difficult time. The story of Hanukkah reminds us that even in darkness we can find the light. We stand alongside our Jewish communities and pray for peace and unity across the world while sending our deepest condolences to those who've lost loved ones. Football Weekly as a big audience in Australia. It has been rocked this country the worst mass shooting in three decades and we echo everything that spurs said there. One of the victims was a footballer in the NPL which is a a few levels below the A league in New South Wales for a team called Rockdale. Ilinden player called Dan Elkayam And I just saw a tweet from a friend of mine who works in football over here called Nick Stoll who just says Dan was on my six aside team. We were meant to play tonight. It was an honor to know and play with him. Like so many he came to Australia and made it a better place with his presence. All love to his family and friends. Football in Bondi, especially a place which has so many nationalities, is such a beautiful thing because it allows so many of us to connect so easily despite any cultural or language barriers. To be able to connect with Dan while he was here is something I will treasure. Just totally heartbreaking. And our heart is with every single one of those victims and their families and friends. And we'll be back in a second.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Ad)]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of 45 for.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Three month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow 135 gigabytes of network's busy taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com Holidays bring feasting fluffy.

[Herobred Ad Voice]

Dinner rolls, tasty stuffing and your family's French toast bakes with Herobread. Indulge in your holiday favorites made with Herobread, sliced bread, loaves, bagels, croissants, buttermilk biscuits and more. And don't forget their Hero Hawaiian rolls. With 4 grams of protein and 0 grams net carbs. HeroBread has you covered with 0 to 5 grams net carb and high fiber options so your holidays stay delicious and balanced like their 3 grams net carb pain au chocolat. Herobread is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use code fall25 at checkout. That's fall25 at HERO CO. All figures are per serving of Herobread contains up to 17 grams of fat per serving. See the product nutrition pan on Hero Co for more information.

[Barry Glendenning]

Welcome to Part three of the Guardian Football Weekly to Stamford bridge, then Chelsea 2, Everton nil. A sort of regulation, uninteresting, unsurprising win and then Maresca. Afterwards, Barry comes out and says since I joined the club, the last 48 hours have been the worst because many people didn't support us. A lot of people kept saying this is a very cryptic message, but it sounds to me like he had a really bad couple of days. I don't know what you think.

[Robin Cousins]

Well, we, you know, we all have bad days. I I as mystified as anyone else by the comments for him to roll that grenade out at his post match presser and then refuse to clarify what he meant. Seemed a bit odd. It seems like he's picking a fight with the Chelsea hierarchy and if that's the case, it's a fight he almost certainly won't win. Part of me was thinking he's going to get sacked on Monday and he probably won't.

[Barry Glendenning]

Still time.

[Robin Cousins]

There is still time. It's still very early on Monday. Yeah, I'd say the Chelsea offices have only just opened. Watch this space. I suppose we'll, we'll find out in due course, presumably, what what his problem is, but I have no idea, so I couldn't even hazard a guess.

[Nada Manua]

Did anyone ask his dad what his, his fisherman dad? What was his, his worst 48 hours.

[Barry Glendenning]

Was, of course I'll imagine that storm in the I don't know what's the Aegean, maybe? No, that's the wrong side, isn't it? I don't know. Anyway, the Med. Call it the Med Max, I suppose.

[Nada Manua]

Interesting.

[Barry Glendenning]

I was talking about this on the radio, Nadium, and quite a lot of Chelsea season ticket holders, sort of unsolicited, got in touch with the show to say, we hate the football we are playing. Right. You know, it's not a show where I, you know, ask for those messages to come in. So it's quite interesting that they did. And he said he was happy with the fans, but the fans aren't necessarily happy with him. Maybe he feels like he doesn't get supported, given the board have given them all these teenagers and he's actually carved out something sort of reasonably good, if inconsistent.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, I think. I think reasonably good is probably, to be fair. No, they're better than reasonably good. They're a good side. They are a good side. Even, say a couple of weeks ago, going down to 10 and getting a result against Arsenal that shows that they are built to be robust in any particular game of football. And for the fans who say they don't like the type of football, I don't watch every Chelsea game to be able to say that this is the reason why and so on. But when I watch them, they feel like they're solid and, you know, at times they can be really creative as well. There wasn't too long ago when they were, you know, pretty close to being top of the table. So I suppose some of the recent results have been disappointing to us to a certain extent. But I don't know, it just feels like it's. Was there. I think they didn't like Maresca, I think, around this time last year, I believe. And then the season finished with them winning the Club World Cup. And whether some people accept it or don't accept it, lifting a trophy for your club, he's always going to, you know, put you in the history books, as such. So then I thought that was more of a positive. And going into this next season, again with that young squad, as you've mentioned, it seemed like they were doing fine, if not well, but if there's discontent and so on there, then it's a shame. And I think for the manager, as Barry said there, to be sending out those sort of like cryptic messages, you know, one of those ones where this will make sense in time. It's not really one of those things, which means it'll make sense in a positive manner for his relationship with the club as such. And I'm sure The fans would be keen to figure out what he's talking about as well, because as you probably mentioned and heard on your radio show, not that many people probably in a position to support him because maybe his face just hasn't really fit. Regardless of how well they've played, how much relative success they've had, maybe they're just not having it.

[Barry Glendenning]

I quite like the idea of managers in press conferences going, I'm going to say something now which will make sense in some time and then carrying on. But look, Malo Gusto was very good in this game.

[Max Rushden]

Scored a goal.

[Barry Glendenning]

Wonderful pass for Cole Palmer as well. Everton did okay at the start. Bit of a shame for Ken and Juice before to come off against this former club. Lack of firepower. Beto A Barry once again sort of.

[Robin Cousins]

Letting them down a bit in terms of Everton. Dave, Arsenal next and I would have fancied him at home. You'd kind of fancy them to give Arsenal a game. Everton are good on their day, but they've lost Kieran Jewsbury hall to a hammy. So that's what, five or six weeks? And Illiman and Jai and Idrisa Gay are off to afcon. Could be a tricky Christmas for. For Everton. I keep trying to do Everton down in the hope they live up to my prediction of finishing 19th, which is looking sillier and sillier, but you know, Everton will be fine by the end of the season, but this, the next few weeks could be tricking them. I think Illimin and Jai is criminally underrated because Jack Grealish tends to get all the attention when I think Illiman enjoys as good, if not better than Grealish.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Fulham on at Burnley, they hadn't done that since the 50s. 34 attempts to win. Archie was tweeting going, we'll never win this game. Seven defeats in a row for Burnley. Their worst run for 130 years. And look, they're in games, aren't they, Robin? Like Bert Leno had to be really quick of his line about eight times to foil Burnley. They're in games but then they let in these soft goals and you think, ah, it's just not gonna quite happen. For Scott Parker, who's so sort of resolute, he's becoming even more sort of army captain, isn't he, as the days go on.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah, this post match. Yeah, no, he really is, yeah. No, they're just a little bit short, aren't they? You know, they're making a sort of. I feel like they're performing as well as they can. But yeah, I mean some of the goals were not. I mean some of the defending, I mean Alan Shearer was kind of. His head was exploding, wasn' it? Some of them, the, you know the corner that basically Wilson passed it to Neil Smith Road.

[Barry Glendenning]

Along the ground, along the ground.

[Nada Manua]

I think we should see that more though, actually. I think that might catch more people out, the sort of low, low cross to see what happens. But yeah, Harry Wilson, so nice and.

[Barry Glendenning]

He'S so, so easy on the eye, isn't he?

[Nada Manua]

Yeah, he's playing like a player in the last year of his contract. Call me cynical. Call me cynical, but the best bit of this game was Calvin Bassey nearly doing a nadum and so close.

[Barry Glendenning]

So much more than name and he.

[Nada Manua]

Was able to run back native had the finish and my job, this finish. It was, I mean, I think still. It's still spooned over the. It's still going. It was so good.

[Barry Glendenning]

It reminded me, Robin, of in the NFL when like an offensive lineman accidentally gets the ball by mistake and then runs atr. And then it's like sort of like taken on one of those airport mobility scooters with oxygen. It's like Calvin Bassey needed that.

[Nada Manua]

He was like, it was amazing, the chop to make room for the shot and then the shot was just so nice. It was great.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah. I've got to say, by the way, he does do that more often than you think, you know, and having seen him play for Nigeria as well, like he made Nigeria have a summer off this summer and focus on things in the future.

[Barry Glendenning]

Focus on the league, that what they're doing.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah, let's focus on the league. Yeah. He does go on these runs very often and like the finish itself, I was devastated for him because I've seen him score some like even good goals from there, but he should pass the ball.

[Robin Cousins]

There are two people at the back.

[Max Rushden]

Post waiting for a tap in. But yeah, when Calvin Bassey goes like that. Yeah, it's exciting. He does. Does it so often. Does it so well.

[Barry Glendenning]

You don't want to get in his way. That is for sure. DRT says even as a Leeds fan, I'd have these guys. Super Sunday game. Last of your running order and everyone forgets what actually happened.

[Nada Manua]

Yeah.

[Barry Glendenning]

Jordan Henderson scored late on Dominic Calvert. Lewin equalized 4 and 4 for him, which is nice. But we won't talk about that because we should talk about Celtic and St. Miron winning the Scottish League Cup. Disco weapon says are Celtic the worst thing to Happen to Nancy since Bill Sykes. You enjoyed that Robin as a. A great question. I mean listen, we should praise Saint Mirren Barry. It's one of those where we have to pray Samir and go. They were great in this game. I was very spiced surprised to see sort of lone failure at Cambridge Dan Lundelu causing all sorts of havoc for the Celtic back line up front. But what a wonderful moment for them and I think their manager lost twice as Motherwell manager against Celtic in cup finals. If I'm correct me if I'm wrong.

[Robin Cousins]

Stephen Robinson.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah he was so just the scenes were brilliant at full time for Saint Mirren.

[Robin Cousins]

Yeah they were dancing on the streets Saint Mirren last night. It's brilliant result for them. Very well run fan owned club from Paisley in Scotland. This is only their second league cup win and they scored two beauties in this game actually Jonah Younger got a brace second one was, was really good I thought as usual the discourse is all about Celtic. I did see you and Murray wrote a very good match report on this game I thought but the focus was on Celtic and it always is because Celtic are the biggest, you know, ticket in in town when it comes to Scottish football. So with apologies to St. Mirren because I don't think we really covered it at the time. We never got around to it. The, the famous Celtic AGM of a few weeks ago when the Celtic board and Dermot Desmond's son Ross showed the most astonishing arrogance to the fans who had taken the time to turn up to this AGM wanted to ask questions. Now the fans didn't do themselves any favor by behaving quite poorly at the start of the meeting. But it was quickly abandoned. Ross Desmond gave this awful speech. Just the, the entitlement, the arrogance, the dismissiveness with regard to Celtic fans. Celtic are an absolute dog's breakfast at the moment. They hired this guy Wilfred Nancy and he Ewan pointed out in his report on this game that they, they appointed him with little or no fanfare. Almost as if they were embarrassed by how low profile he is and how possibly a signal the are a sign they're worried he will fail. And he's only been there, I don't know a week. He's had three games. Celtic have lost all three of them. They've conceded eight goals, got beaten by Hearts in the league, they got walloped by Roma in the Europa League and now they've lost this cup final to Saint Mirren and people are wondering, you know they had Martin o' Neill in his interim manager he did a great job steadying the ship. He understands Celtic. He understands Celtic fans. Why didn't they leave him in charge for this quite important week and then let Wilfred Nancy take over? Now, it's far too early to judge him, but the early indications are that he doesn't quite know what he's got himself into. His press conferences have been very unconvincing. A lot of sort of corporate management speak that says a lot but doesn't really say much at the same time. But yeah, it's too early to judge, but Celtic are a mess and the only sort of thing in their favor is that Rangers are also a mess. So we'll see how it goes. But again, it's Saint Miriam we should be talking about. I'm not gonna lie, I know little or nothing about Saint Mirren. Before yesterday, I couldn't name one of their players, so. But. But hats off to them. It clearly meant an awful lot to them.

[Barry Glendenning]

Yeah.

[Robin Cousins]

And to see them celebrating in front of their fans at Hamden at the end was. Was lovely.

[Max Rushden]

Yeah.

[Barry Glendenning]

He. Nancy's come from Columbus Crew, has a good reputation, mls. You and Murray saying a two minute glance at Celtic squad tells you they don't have guys to play the system. Nancy wants sticking with that system just because that's what you do isn't single minded. It's outright daft. But it does sound like a Celtic manager they had previously who was quite successful, doesn't it? Anyway, yeah. And he also got some sticks for having a little tactics board which did look like travel Othello. And you know, I'm. I know I haven't played Othello for a while, but you know, quite enjoyed that as a kid. But you know, you can't knock a guy for having a tactics board if you're a football manager, can you? Unless you're playing Sunday league, in which case totally unacceptable. Anyway, that'll do for today. We are recording our Christmas Eve mailbag special on Wednesday. We need your questions. It is me, Barry, Jonathan Wilson and John Bruin. You can ask them anything about football, past, present and future or anything at all. Questions to Football weekly@the guardian.com and we'll be asking over on our Instagram and Bluesky X etc.

[Max Rushden]

Etc.

[Barry Glendenning]

But for the time being. Thank you everybody. Thank you, Robin.

[Nada Manua]

Thanks, Max.

[Barry Glendenning]

Thanks, Natum.

[Max Rushden]

Cheers, big fellow.

[Barry Glendenning]

Cheers, Baz.

[Robin Cousins]

Thank you. Yeah, that hour flew. Is it just me or did that really fly? Wow, that's a good sign, I think, isn't it?

[Barry Glendenning]

Well, it's the first time you've enjoyed a pod in eight years.

[Max Rushden]

So there we go.

[Barry Glendenning]

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Daniel Stevens. We'll be back tomorrow.

[Max Rushden]

This is the Guardian.

[Shopify Ad Voice]

When you think of skyrocketing brands like Aloe Allbirds or Skims you, it's easy to credit their success to great products, sleek branding and brilliant marketing. But here's the overlooked secret. The real magic lies in the engine behind the scenes, the business powering their business. For millions of brands, that engine is Shopify, making selling seamless for them and shopping effortless for us. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Alo Yoga uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial [e-mail] retail all lowercase go to shopify.com retail to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com retail.