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Football Weekly
The end for Enzo Maresca and what now for Chelsea? Football Weekly Extra
00:52:00
Max Rushden is joined by Lucy Ward, Lars Sivertsen and Mark Langdon as Chelsea and Enzo Maresca part ways, while 2026 kicks off with three 0-0 draws in the Premier League
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A
This is the Guardian.
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B
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Hello and welcome to Guardian Football Weekly. A tough night for the best league in the world. So thank you to Chelsea and to Enzo Maresca for giving us some content. Chelsea sacked their manager. Good to get something so inevitable done at the start of the year. A move that appears to be what everybody wanted. Maresca said he was having a terrible time. Then he said he'd been talking to other people all the while getting annoyed with the medical staff for telling him who to pick and how long for one winning seven on the pitch. Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe you know the rest. And Chelsea are Chelsea, so it was never going to work. Liam Rossini, a favorite for the job. How will Bluco owned Chelsea possibly prize him away from Bluco owned Strasbourg? Also today, Brentford nil. Tottenham Hotspur nil. Liverpool nil. Leeds United nil. Sunderland nil. Manchester City nil. Still a bit to talk about Sunderland's unbeaten home record. Thomas Frank getting a wonderful ovation from everyone except the spurs fans. What a shame. Palace and Fulham scored and we didn't get a clean sweep. Then to AFCON where Gabon have been suspended by Gabon while the last 16 begins tomorrow. And in the EFL Cambridge are up to fifth. We'll do all that plus your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Week cleave. On the panel today from the Racing Post, Mark Langdon. Welcome. Mark.
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C
Hi Max.
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A
Hello Lucy Ward.
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D
Hi Max.
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A
And good morning, Lars Sivitson.
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E
Good morning, Max.
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A
Alice says, have there ever been more panelists than goals before? It's a great question. Well, look, we will get, we'll get to last night's football in a second but let's do Enzo Maresca leaving Chelsea. Then Zavard says feel free to cut and paste the analysis of Maresca's firing by Chelsea from any one of the last 15 times or so. Manager thinks they're in charge, finds out they aren't taking tale as old as time at the bridge. So Chelsea said, one of those statements that they always make. Chelsea Football club and head coach Enzo Maresca have parted company. During his time at the club, Enzo led the team to success in the UEFA Conference League and the FIFA Club World Cup. Those achievements will remain an important part of the club's recent history and we thank him for his contributions to the club. With key objectives still to play for across four competitions, including qualification for Champions League football, Enzo and the club believe a change gives the team the best chance of getting the season back on track. We wish Enzo well for the future. And it appears, Mark, that Enzo wanted to leave and Chelsea wanted him to leave. And so that's fine every. It's fine for everyone.
- [03:05]
C
Well, yeah, I mean. I mean, Chelsea do this all the time, but they actually don't get any worse for doing it. You know, there's this belief that you have to have continuity and Chelsea just have never really had that stability and it's worked for them. You know, they. They often roll the dice and, you know, win a trophy as. As Maresca did. And it felt like this was inevitable. You're right. Once Mareska had started calling people out, even though he didn't mention who it was, you just felt that that was the beginning of the end. And when you're not winning games as well, then it does become inevitable. I think it's probably the right decision if, if things have got to the stage where it's unworkable and there's a lack of trust between certain departments. It doesn't feel like you can carry on like that. But I mean, when Moresco was appointed, he was a relatively inexper coach and he's got relatively inexperienced players. And I think you will get these kind of ups and downs. And even as a leader, like, he wouldn't have been in that position too many times, where at Chelsea, if you do go on a run, it was one winning seven, something like that, like the pressure does come and he maybe hasn't got the tools to deal with that at the moment, but that's what you get employing somebody that hasn't managed somebody like Chelsea before. So I. I just think that we'll be in this situation in probably 12 to 18 months time and maybe they would have won an FA cup or a League cup or qualified for the Champions League. And, you know, everyone will say that they're doing it wrong Chelsea, but I don't know, it seems to work for them relatively well.
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A
Yeah. And I suppose if you're a Chelsea fan, Lucy, the fact that you've Seen so many managers sacked and it doesn't seem to have any discernible difference to you winning trophies or not. And the fact that I don't think many fans particularly warmed to the football that Maresca was playing, that Chelsea fans will be fine about it.
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D
Yeah, I do think he's a little bit different because this lot above the new owners want to do it in a different way. They want to be the project, develop and sell, you know, like basically just a trader. They're just trading and it's like snakes and ladders. They sort of get better and get better as the players get better and then they sell and then they got dropped back down again. That's. That's what it seems like to me. But I've read the reports from both sides because obviously both sides have been briefing. It's been quite hilarious. Bizarre, really. Moresk is culpable, I would suspect, in some issues, like his subs were poor. He's a bit rigid and slow in the way that he played, but you can't expect a manager to function from the sounds of it and the level of interference that he had. Something I read yesterday was about the owners wanting autonomy for the medical staff to say the load for each player, which is absolutely ridiculous. A football club. So you basically got someone who is. Who knows about, you know, players and fitness to say, oh, he only needs 42 and a half minutes or whatever. I mean, I'm being ridiculous. But that's what they're basically saying. He can only play for 30 minutes. And it becomes an issue if you allow backroom staff that much power. The manager is there to get the information from all the experts and then make a decision because he has got, you know, experience and decide then what's going to happen. And it basically creates silos in the. In the training ground. And it's very, very negative. And I suspect that Maresca has gone, I'm not having this. I'm not having somebody telling me who doesn't really know about football that I can only play a. A player for that amount of time. And also I remember the brief, the briefing yesterday about him cra. Creating that mushroom squad, the bomb squad, being negative all of a sudden when. When it happened, everybody was saying how good that he'd separated those players out and the ones that he didn't want. But all of a sudden now that's. That's negative. And I thought that was probably the best thing he did for having a longer period of time at Chelsea, separating players in the training ground and saying, right, I don't want them because there's too many and they're the ones I don't want. And it's the. The owner's fault and supporting directors, they didn't get rid of them at the time. But yeah, that. Just the fallout from it. And certain journalists have been briefed one way and certain the other way, and it's. It is. It's unbecoming, really.
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E
You say it's unbecoming. It is also quite funny like. It is one. Like when players fight on the pitch and the commentator says, well, we don't like to see this. Realistically, we do like to see this. And I feel like the briefing wars after a big managerial sackings are quite entertaining to observe. I want to focus on the medical staff thing because that's something obviously me being a layman here picked up on. First of all, that's one area where I have some sympathy with Maresca for the way he's handled it, because of course he's been criticized a lot for excessively rotating and for subbing off players that people don't want to see subbed off. If it turns out that was under direction from the medical staff saying they can only have so and so many minutes. You can understand his frustration for having to be the public face of that decision, for having to sit in the press conference and get killed, for having taken someone off after 60 minutes, when in fact he has been told he has to come off after 60 minutes. And I think, weirdly, even though the focus on this whole thing is that, oh, he was speaking to other people and blah, blah, blah, he has shown a bit of loyalty, I think, there, for not throwing the medical staff under the bus, him sitting in the presser saying, stop having a go at me for rotating. I've been told I have to do this, like. Which would have been a very human thing to do when you're getting stick for this. But I am curious about what you said, Lucy, because you obviously know the inner workings of a football club a lot more than I do. For me, being an outsider, being a layman, the idea that the medical staff determine how much physical strain the players should have seems kind of logical. But you feel very strongly that the, the, the.
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D
The.
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E
The manager can never be overruled in this. And I, I think I certainly would be curious to hear more about that. And I think some of the listeners might be too.
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D
I think that, you know, that sensible in the football workings of a football club never, ever go hand in hand. License. And, And I think historically the Manager has the final say and without that, the players will pick up on anything where the manager doesn't have that sort of, of autonomy. So as soon as you've got someone else in the club who could say, right, you'll only play 45 minutes, the players just play on it. They know that. They go, oh, I'm feeling a little bit, you know, honestly, you have to have one person who says, right, he's playing for a half or whatever it is, 60 minutes, I'll take him off at 60 minutes. If you keep telling a player that they're not quite fit yet or they're tired, then they will believe they're tired. It's a, it's, it's psychologically and I know there's bits where they're injured and they can't play fair enough, but they are doer on the side of caution, these, these, these medical staff. So they will say a lot less because they don't want. They think that they might end up back in the, back in the physio realm. But it's a real struggle of power. But players will pick up on anything. So if they think that the physio's got a little bit more power than the manager, or if the manager says, you're going to, you're starting or I'm not going to start you because of whatever, then they will then go to the. Honestly, it's, it's, it's a, it's a soap opera. So anything that you require think is sensible and common sense doesn't necessarily work in, in football. I think that the, the main point about Maresca, I think he's outgrown being a rookie manager, learning the ropes because he's won things. And the Chelsea board and owners want a manager that they can manipulate, a coach that can manipulate. Which is why you've then seen Liam Rossini's name come up, who is probably a good coach, but he wouldn't be, you know, a coach at this stage in his career where you say, oh, you could definitely manage Chelsea. Looking at the managers that Chelsea have had in the past, he won't bluster into Stamford Bridge. He will be incredibly thankful he's been given the opportunity and they will then be able to manipulate him until he starts to win things and then thinks, hang on a minute, I'm better than being manipulated by owners.
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E
So, sorry, is this the Chelsea cycle? We end up getting like, they will hire a young up and coming manager, which they kind of did with Mareska. He came from Leicester. And then the second he, and at first he accepts all the restraints and goes, yeah, yeah, I met Chelsea. Awesome. Good players, good stadium, huge name, good salary. And then once he gets them to the Champions League and wins the trophy, he starts going, okay, I'm the man, I can start making demands. And then they sack him. Will it be this forever?
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A
Well, I mean this is the, that's the tricky thing. I mean, Patnovin said they needed a puppet, which is sort of good news for Fozzie Bear or Orville. But, but, but I think Mark, isn't that an issue then? If you have a young squad and you get an inexperienced manager and lots of people have said the reason they can't be consistent is they don't have experience in that side, then you are actually. That project doesn't seem like one which will actually ultimately get real top success.
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C
Chelsea had Thomas Tuchel before. Like, could you imagine, say, Tuchel walking into that situation being told, well, of course, to do by sort of loads of different people. Like, he, he's not having that for one second. And nor would any of the, the really top managers. I mean, I would just, I mean Chelsea are 15 points behind Arsenal and I think that there was an. The summer, whether that's right or wrong, that they would be a lot closer to Arsenal and they're only 6.1 spent £1.6 billion. Yeah. So I, I think, you know, that there, there have been some poor results as well that, that go with it, that make the decision easier. But I, yeah, I do believe that they want a coach that they can control and where each department is, you know, in, in charge of whatever they are and the manager just deals with, with the pitch, on pitch stuff. And I would say that most of the sort of big coaches wouldn't want to work in, in those situations.
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A
And then actually, Lucy, wouldn't you want to. If you're a Chelsea fan or if you're the manager or the head coach or the man on the grass, whatever they want to give the title to, don't we want to hear from some of these other people? You know, if there are so many people in the dressing room or on the training ground saying do this, do that, don't we, doesn't whoever coaches that team? I don't the fans deserve to, to hear from these other people.
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D
Yeah, I've heard things in the past about sporting directors. Like managers get sacked. Sporting directors have nothing on them, even though they've brought the players in. And you know, the, the modern structure is a coach, coaches of players that the Sporting director brings in, but then the manager gets sacked for bad results when it may be to do with players. But these people in the background will want to have their say, but they would definitely won't want to go in front of, of, of the media. You know, the, the head of medical services won't want to go in front of the media. And I think from what I've read as well, I think some of the good people that were there at Chelsea since the new owners come in have sort of been moved out. You know, academy staff who were, who were there a long time, but obviously produce players because Chelsea are excellent at producing players for, for themselves and everybody else. They've sort of disappeared. So good people who have been there for quite a long time. But there's, you know, there's this sort of positives to that as well that you sort of freshen everything up. But these people who were in the background trying to look after their own little silo and, and you know, have something to say and then the owners allow them to do that is just. Must be an absolute nightmare for Maresca. And I would say that it will have contributed to the bad results without a shadow of a doubt in recent, in recent times. Everything that's been going on will have, will have, will have contributed to that.
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A
Exciting for the YouTube viewers to see. Lars has zoomed himself in to make.
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E
This very important point entirely accidentally, I might add. There is a good point here, an interesting point about accountability because we have sort of an envy. The British football has started importing this more continental model of you have a clearer differential between the head coach and the sporting director, who has more long term. But if you look to Germany, the sporting directors speak, the sporting directors do media interviews, especially when things are not going well. The sporting director will often come out and say, like, we believe in the manager or we have something going on. They're very absent in England now. Every club will have one and they very rarely come out in front of things. In Italy they'll speak as well. And also in Italy you have a history of the club president being quite a public figure often because they're egomaniacs, but also like, they also come out and take off some of the flak if they need to and take some ownership over the project. And I think there's something interesting there about how we've. The structures have been changed so that the head coach is now more of a head coach than an old school manager. But he's still, he's still this sort of figure, this, that's thrown in front of everything and is the face of the, the project and everyone else who actually have a lot of responsibility, they're just in the background. And I think maybe that's something to think about.
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A
And I suppose the other question mark, and I'm minded to agree with you that it almost doesn't seem to matter what Chelsea do. They'll just win stuff enough to be, you know, one of the most successful clubs, I guess, in the country. But if this is their pro, if this is their model, which is slightly different to under Abramovich, right, which was, you know, high profile, manager wins, something goes. How long do you give a project of young manager, young team?
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C
Well, I, I think they'll just consistently change it at the first, the first time there's. There's trouble. The easy thing to do is to, you know, particularly with the, you know, if the fans start to turn on the manager, and I think that that was fair. What would happen in this case with Maresca, like, he's just an easy person to get rid of. Who decided to buy, say, Gittens and Garnacho this summer when you already had wide players there at the club that, you know, would believe that their first team is Neto. You want to, you know, you want Estevao to come in and, and start playing more minutes, but you've got Gittens and you've got Garnacho and he's come like, what, what are you supposed to do with. With these players? There's lack of quality in really key positions. Goalkeeper, center forward, center back, like the cornerstones of what makes a successful team, I think is still missing from Chelsea, despite all the money that's been spent and like, to have won trophies. I think, like, if you were to be really picky about it, you would say, well, Chelsea, like, and when Mourinho was there particularly. But even after that, like, they were winning the really biggest trophies and that was the Premier League. And then they won two Champions Leagues as well. But they feel a long way off winning the Premier League at the moment. And Arsenal have been through kind of that stability and backed Arteta when things got tough. And the Champions League, okay, it's still early days. You don't know if they, you know, they might go on to win it, but they don't look like one of the favorites at the moment to win the Champions League. And I think those are the trophies where maybe you do actually need somebody longer term. You need to believe in something with the manager to go on and challenge Arsenal and man, City. Because Chelsea are a long way off being able to do that on a consistent basis. And if you spend over a billion pounds, you would expect to be challenging, I think for the Premier League. So maybe there is a fundamental flaw in what they're trying to do.
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A
Yeah. And actually that sort of depends on what the own. How the owners view success. Lucy, could you imagine with that kind of investment that, that it is leagues and champions leagues.
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D
Yeah, but I'm not sure, to be honest, Max. I just think that it's. It's a. It's looking at it on a spreadsheet of how much can we make of the play. You know, I'm sure Estev, for instance, which is a great signing, you know, you look at the potential he has and that they'll probably sell him for a lot more than they bought him. I think that is success to them. That's what it seems like anyway.
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A
I think so. And actually. And yet last sometimes they have looked brilliant, you know, even. I mean. So the Villa game is an example where they haven't looked brilliant for a whole game that occasionally watch them. I can't remember a couple of. There was once this season where we were like, oh, hang on, maybe the Arsenal game or something. We'll be like, hang on. These guys are. There is real potential in this team and there is of course huge potential in this team.
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E
There is. So this is the other thing. Obviously as fun as the briefing wars are about the, the disagreements and the things. There's also this element of okay, in this last Pochettino and this is Pochettino season before he went, they finished sixth in the league, but they were fourth on the XG Last season they finished fourth in the league and were fourth on the xg. I, if my opinion counts for anything, I think this is the fourth best squad in the league. I think if you go through them, man for man, I think they're just about like, they're not as good as Arsenal City and Liverpool on paper, but of the. The group after that, I think they've probably got the strongest squad for me. So they should be run about fourth would be place for them to be. They're currently, they're currently fifth, sixth on the, on the numbers. And if you're Chelsea like you've got the same number of points as a dreadful Manchester United team. One more point than Sunderland, two more points than Everton. That's kind of where you are. Is that good? Like, is that, is that where this squad should be? I feel like no. So there's also this element of Maresca apparently speaking to City, apparently like not suggesting he might be convinced to not speak to City if they hand him a new contract. Part of the briefing wars, that's something that's been put out there. I feel like playing that card when you're not doing that well. Seems like a bit of a gamble, I think, just based on performances and results and the general trajectory. Chelsea were probably looking at it saying, we're not sure about where this is going. And if the manager picks that time to start, like throwing himself around and disagreeing with people about stuff and talking to other people, then you make the decision very easy for the guys upstairs, I guess.
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A
All right, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll look back on a wild night of Premier League action. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. As producer Joel says, who knew dry January would also apply to the football? Thomas says, was that the worst day of football ever? Like the absolute antithesis of that crazy Boxing Day result list just in the Premier League, EFL was pretty good. Tom, why are all eight teams vying for that coveted final slot on tonight's match of the day? It was a shame in a way that Fulham and Palace scored because I'd love, I'd love just a picture of just four nil nils. Of the nil Nils, because we'll do the nil nils first and then we'll go to the goals. Sunderland, man, City. I think Lucy was the best game. And actually given this, the entire Sunderland squad's gone to afcon. You know, given who they were playing and sort of in terms of stoic defending and just, just. I mean, we've been impressed with Sunderland, especially at home, for a long time, but this was another real great example.
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D
They knew that there is some fragility about Manchester City and Sunderland played the way you should play against City when you're, when you're at home and just. They just have this ability, a little bit like Leeds and Ellen Road, to use the energy of the crowd to help them. You know that at times they press the life out of City. At times they then dropped and stopped them from getting through. And they're absolutely brilliant at it, I think really well coached. That's. That's the first thing, physicality high, which is obviously something that, that, you know, you've looked at Sunderland's recruitment and whether it's the first choice that have gone off to AFCON or the ones remaining, they have to have that sort of high level of physicality and it just shows you that if you. If you've got that physicality, work hard and you try and be bold, which is what they tried to be. But they needed that little bit of luck I think last night as well. But I mean, yeah, it's a great. Great for Sunderland and great. I mean I've. I've done a bit of work up there and with Sunderland and it's such a massive club up in the Northeast that you sort of smile at the. The joy around the place of how well the team's doing.
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A
Yeah, I mean to be unbeaten at home still, you know, this far into the season, they played 10 home games. Mark is. Is so impressive. And of course, you know, City missed Sevini, had a couple of good chances and they Haaland one straight the keeper there was that brilliant moment. Almost summed up the defending where Mukieli I think took one in the face from Doku and then it came out and someone else kicked it in Alderete's head. And you're like, this is, you know, that is when as a fan base you think this is proper defending.
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C
Yeah. And yeah, they've played Arsenal now. They've played man City. They've, you know, beaten Newcastle. So it's not like it's been a really easy run a fixture. Sometimes the calendar can work out that maybe you end up with all of the kind of easy gains in inverted commas at home first half of the season and your record looks false. But they've actually taken on the two best teams and you've done Arsenal a massive favor as well last night. But it was. It wasn't as if City had loads and loads of like chances. Only had four shots on target. I think they. They did enough to win the game City, but it was still like a great effort. Roasting goal. As you know. He just a bit like Matt Sells last year, just has like this just belief that like nothing's getting past him and you wonder how sustainable that is. But it's great while it lasts. And I know he's been shouted out a lot, but I think the signing of Xhaka in the summer, definitely one of the best of the season. He'd be knocking on the door of any kind of team of the season at the halfway stage. His influence on the side is just enormous and he does both sides of the game and also just his leadership qualities as well. They're just really significant player. And when they signed him, I wasn't sure he kind of had the legs, I would say to maybe sort of still be able to do it central midfield in the Premier League. But he's, he's so important to what they're trying to do also just must.
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E
Be so rewarding for him. Like, I mean he could have gone off to like Saudi Arabia or something and just kind of of knocked about, counted his money and played silly sort of park football but instead he sort of made the call to go to Sunderland in the northeast and try to help them stay up after getting promoted. And it's like a huge professional challenge for him and I'm hoping he's enjoying the northeast. Off the pitch I mean it's a lovely part of the world. But on the pitch certainly like he's really lived up to his billing and is doing a great job in midfield and that must be so much more rewarding for you to have a year or two like this towards the end of your career before you go off and maybe, you know, make the big pointless check somewhere else.
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D
The point is as well Max, is that I don't think every single experienced players player could do what he's doing. He's obviously a good player. What Mark said about his influence, I think the most important thing is his influence on others. So when he's on the pitch, he's a manager on the pitch basically. So the labrie can just think, right, I've given them the instruction. It's loud in here. He can be the one that get, that affects others and, and that's when you get to that sort of next level as a player where you, you're very good yourself but you make others better and you influence players. But I don't think it's, I don't think it's. Every single experienced player would be able to do that. I think it takes a lot more effort from him and you know, off the pitch as well. So real credit to, to, to the way he sort of gone into Sunderland and just embraced everything about it.
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A
It must have been hard Mark as a Spurs fan for saying a central midfielder who could do both parts of the game. I thought we'll get to it. We' and look really impressive as well Mark, that you know, they lost six players and they weren't fringe players to afcon and they are unbeaten. Okay, three draw. Three. Three draws in a row. But they are unbeaten since the players left.
- [26:19]
C
Yeah, I expected Sunderland to drop off. Well, I expect them to drop off almost as soon as the good results started in August. But you know, it's particularly at this point I, I did think that it would be too much for Them and you, you're getting much bigger clubs moaning about injuries and absentees at this stage and you've seen kind of what Sunderland have, have had to put up with. It's their, you know, they recruited the players and they knew that Afcon was, was happening. So it's not like it was a surprise but it's still a lot to take out of your squad. And like I said, they limited City to particularly first half there was the Haaland chance and there was the offside Bernardo Silva one, you know, that was close but wasn't like there was loads and loads of chances from Man City. Savino should have scored I think in, in the second half and they were knocking on the door. But there was a good tactical, I suppose game plan really from Sunderland because you can't, you can't run after City for 90 minutes. You have to be clever in when you do the pressing and then when you sit back and there was probably goes back to the Shaka thing there but there was an intelligence to the way that they kind of went off the City at points but then dropped off as well. So yeah, a good tactical performance and you know, they'll fancy their chances at what I Lane on Sunday as well.
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A
Yes, nice. Brobie sort of throwing Diaz on the floor before shooting straight at Donna Moon was good. Look, Guardio almost scored an unbelievable goal and it looked totally intentional. That sort of back heel volley that he tried, you know, he has scored the occasional brilliant one. So I, I'm glad it didn't go in but I. And look it's. But still it was a great effort I think for the title race though, you know, Arsenal will be absolutely delighted, won't they? Arsenal went there and got a point, so there's no shame in getting a draw at Sunderland. But still it's been a good couple of days for them to Liverpool then where we start the chat about Booz. Lots of boos at full time and I think, Lars, what the performance and the result, I guess, you know, it was pretty lackluster. Producer Joel saying looked like a team that stayed up to watch all of the hootenanny. Which, you know, I don't believe. I don't believe anyone's ever got to the end of it, have they? Tom says, why is slotball so boring? When does a calming presence become a handbrake? How many passes back to Virgil van Dijk is too many? It's not tick attacker position, it's just slow.
- [28:34]
E
There's a risk that I'm just being contrarian. On this. But I watched 90 minutes of this game and I thought leaves were really good. I just thought they were really well organized. Obviously you'd want Liverpool to move the ball a little bit quicker. You want there to be a little bit more movement. And you're kind of waiting for Florian Wirtz in particular to maybe do a little bit more in terms of finding openings. But Leeds kept their shape really well and were aggressive in the challenges without giving away too many fouls, didn't allow themselves to get dragged out a position too often. And just. It's not like there were a ton of spaces that Liverpool very obviously could have exploited. I, I came away from that feeling more impressed with Leeds's defending than exasperated at Liverpool's failure to attack. But I have noticed in the aftermath of the game that not everyone felt that way.
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A
Sure. Well, I mean, I guess that is a way we watch football sometimes when we're looking from a particular point of view that we forget, you know, there is an opposition. There are players literally trying to stop you doing what you're trying to do. But it is a really impressive point, Lucy, for, for Leeds and for Daniel Farker who in the last few weeks they've been so impressive, haven't they?
- [29:41]
D
Yeah, I mean he's, he's. He stumbled upon a solution for this players that he's got, you know, the league that he's playing in and just that. That sort of changed to 3, 5, 2. And he. I mean what I would say is last night it shouldn't have just been so easy to. To defend in a 5, 4, 1 and keep Liverpool out. From a Liverpool point of view, I think that Liverpool made it easy. Easy for le sort of being that structure that, you know, that nobody committed a defender. Probably Hecate did it in the second half trying to get in behind. Nobody made those runs in behind, didn't move the ball quick enough. So I think from a Leeds point of view, they were like, yeah, it was brilliant. But you know, Liverpool didn't really sort of test us. But yeah, he sort of changed it to this, this three, five, two. Calvert. Lewin getting himself in form and fit has helped loads because at some stage just before he started scoring, he didn't really know where the goals were going to come from for Leeds. And that was the problem. So there's only so much a defense can really defend in the Premier League without it being too much pressure if the forwards aren't scoring. But yeah, they put, they get the ball wide, they put the ball in the box set Pieces very strong. They've obviously looked at it in the summer and thought right where do promoted teams score their goals? Mostly from set piece situations. So let's try and make sure that we were as good as possible at doing that. And and it. And it's worked. And you know I. I did the. The Leeds Chelsea game for. For radio and as soon as I saw Chelsea on the pitch warming up thought they're not ready for this. They are not ready for the this atmosphere. And it was as if why is somebody not saying to them Leeds fans and Leeds players see this as a rivalry. And the same I'm doing the Leeds Man United game on Sunday. If those Man United players are not ready for the effects of the rivalry then they will just do what what Chelsea does. So they've got that. They've got that power of just a unity at home but you know, away from home. They were very very good last night. But I do think Liverpool made it easy for them easier for them.
- [31:38]
E
And I would where I would maybe question what I would have wanted to ask Arslot if I'd been in the presser would be was this a game where it made sense to put verts out put to put Wirtz out on the wing. Like I do accept that Florian Wirtz needs to do a little bit more clearly he's a very very talented player. I think everyone watching him can. Can see the close control he has and all this sort of stuff. But when you're playing a team who are sitting back in this sort of shape and who are not allowing themselves to come out and be tempted to open up the game. You are going to have to try to knit through that. And sticking someone with the sort of quick feet of Wirt's out on the wing. And you can watch his touch. Matt from yesterday he was just out on the flank almost all the time. I'm not sure that gets the best out of him. And I know there are games where you might be hesitant to have him in the middle because he doesn't offer you a lot defensively. He's not a super physical guy. But that's not in big concern in this game because Leeds aren't trying to come out and make a game of it. You're trying to find an opening here. And I thought again he you're expecting him to do more. But I'm not sure his position really helped him.
- [32:39]
A
Yesterday I enjoyed Ekitike heading it against Perry's head. I mean the cross was it Frimpong? I can't remember absolutely hammered it. I mean I'm not sure it was across. So he did well to actually get his head on it. And some good humble bragging from Anna Slot. He wanted a penalty. Ekat might have been fouled but stayed on his feet. It's definitely an issue that players don't get decisions if they stay on their feet feet. But he said I don't think it's a surprise to anyone that one of my players stayed on their feet. It happened against West Ham Paqueta should have got a second yellow but one of my players stayed on his feet. It's just a team who we are and unfortunately it's not recognized. I saw Leeds players going down in the second half. The question is should we change or not? I don't think we should. Are they the only honorable side in the Premier League? Mark?
- [33:20]
C
Yeah, I mean, you know these small clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City, they're always on the wrong end of these decisions, aren't they? So unfair. I think there would have been frustration. I just think he picked two defensive side. Really a lot of there weren't enough offensive players on there to impact the game at the start. So I think what the what the listener. The question. The question the listener sort of posed. I I would agree and I think that in trying to fix the defense that was a problem say about a month ago when that they were conceding too many goals. I do think that they've now lost something going the other way. For they were really poor when they won at Spurs a couple of weeks ago, scraped past Wolves and now this. This. Nil. Nil. I'm not sure that kind of just because they're now conceding fewer goals that everything's sort of worked out well now for Liverpool because I don't think they're creating the volume of chances that they should be. And he had enough attackers on the bench really to suggest that maybe just even one or two more offensive players could have made a difference from the start. Because you allow Leeds to get into a kind of rhythm and you know you want to get after them early really. Right. Once they're settled into the game it can become much more difficult to then impact the result.
- [34:34]
A
I would say talking about shoring up a defense but affecting things going forward to the the G Tech. Brentford nil. Spurs nil.
- [34:42]
E
Simon said.
- [34:42]
A
Should the FA look at charging spurs and Brentford for putting on the worst 90 minutes of football in the best league in the world? Dan if Tottenham swap Frank for a cardboard cutout, would the Cutout be more ambitious. I have seen so many league 2 games like this. This was ble on both teams actually. Like an exhibition in giving the ball away. An exhibition in clearances just sort of being hoofed out for a throw in. I guess Brenford were marginally better. Romero probably should have been sent off when Thiago was through and Romero just completely missed him. I don't sure how Var missed that. And look, the big story, I guess you're a Tottenham fan, is Thomas Frank getting booed by the traveling spurs fans when he went over to applaud them. Your thoughts, Mark?
- [35:24]
C
Max, you think the Var just fallen asleep? I mean because I was struggling. Stay away for it.
- [35:31]
A
Yeah.
- [35:31]
E
Lost the will to live.
- [35:33]
C
Just like I can't be bothered here. I think in Thomas Frank's head he's thinking that's not a bad point at Brentford. They're doing really well at home. They scored a lot of goals against Liverpool, against Manchester United, Hammond, Bournemouth like.
- [35:47]
A
Three days ago yet.
- [35:48]
D
Yeah.
- [35:48]
C
So we'll go there. We'll be really sort of disciplined look to, to get something on the break and you know, worst thing that can happen here is we get a nil. Nil and there's four points over that festive period and then we've got Sunderland at home and we're not that far off top five. And he would have then walked over to the Tottenham fans at the end and got a different, a different view on what's going on. And it's not that, it's not that game in isolation. That performance as has been kind of the default one at home and away, which is why they've struggled so often at home. Because they've got no way, no, no way of breaking teams down if it's not from a set piece. The amount of times this season I've seen Pedro Porro sort of open up his body and just call a right footed pass to the opposition defender. It just happens all the time. Like Archie Gray as a number 10. He was playing center back this time last year. Now he's playing as a number 10. I don't like. I, I really like Archie Gray and he was beginning to develop in that sort of position. Just, I don't know as a 6 or maybe as an 8, but a 10. I don't think that it's fair to ask him to play that position. He didn't seem to know kind of what he was sort of how to play that role. There's no way of progressing the ball up the pitch and it's not getting any better. So that's why the fans are unhappy. It's not, oh, they've drawn a game against Brentford and the shame of that, it's that there's no sign of progress in this team at all.
- [37:23]
A
Yeah, he said on being booed, they seemed like they were not too satisfied. It's fair when we don't hit that top performance overall, it's double sided because I think we need to understand is the acknowledgment of the defensive side of the game. We've done excellent today against the team who just scored three against Liverpool, three against Man United, so on and so on. Of course the offensive part needs to be better. There's no two ways about that. And I suppose the devil's advocate position is, Lars, that Brentford have the fourth best home record in the league. It's only Arsenal, City and Villa have a better home record than them. Their home record is better than any away record in the league. So this is the fourth hardest game of the season. I mean, it sounds silly to say. I mean look at Mark frowning.
- [38:01]
E
Yes, that is silly to say, Max.
- [38:03]
A
I'm just looking at like statistically the way the league table set up that I'm trying to. I'm clutching, I'm clutching because it was insipid from both teams, but it was, you know, spurs just don't know what. And they are missing their creative players. I would love to see what they're like with Madison and Kulasevsky with this, you know, robust defense.
- [38:26]
E
Would they start, would they maybe be on the bench and then polynya at number 10 or something. You never know with this dude. Listen, you said the word, word Shame. Langdon. I think we're onto something here. I think and this is a very serious proposal for me. I think they need to change the rules of the Premier League like the founding, the official rules of the whole division. And this is very specific, but this is a clause that should be in there next to the PSR and all the stuff. If your club has an annual revenue of over 500 million and your goalkeeper gets booked for time wasting when you're drawing nil nil against Brentford, that's an immediate 10 point deduction and a five year touchline ban for the manager.
- [39:05]
C
That was worth 20 minutes. It was 20 minutes ago.
- [39:08]
E
There's no need for this. What are you doing? Listen, you're not wrong. Brentford are not an easy place to go. I really think just from a. I think from the Tottenham fan perspective, if you go to Brentford, you try to make A game of it. You get done on counter attacks and set pieces and you draw 2, 2 or lose 3, 2. You can live with that. That's what happens at Brentford sometimes. But going away to Brentford with the budget you've had and spurs are not a small club anymore. They just seem to act like one right now. Going and not even trying to play football is embarrassing. And if he thinks that's what the spurs manager should do, you should go back to Brentford. You seem very happy there. Maybe that was a good place for him. It's terrible.
- [39:47]
A
The flip side would be people would say you're sound entitled, you know, because this is where Tottenham are with their.
- [39:53]
E
With.
- [39:53]
A
You know, the squad is expensive, Lucy. It's expensive. But I don't know if it's good.
- [39:57]
D
Thomas Frank fighting for his life in terms of being a Spurs manager because of the talk. So he's not going to do an ange. I know that's completely the other end of the scale. He's always going to be safe first. That's that. That. That's him building slowly. But I think Mark's right about that. They haven't got the attackers on the pitch who can unlock defensive and be creative. And so it ends up just being. Just dodge the whole time unless they score something from it. And there are some bright spots. Actually. Gray's a bright spot. I'm not sure he's a 10 like Mark. I do think that when you've not got any of those creative players on the pitch then you have very low levels of creativity. That's just a fact. And he's not then going to go to Brentford and for various reasons including the fact that he's returned to Brentford and allow Brentford any sort of wriggle room at all in. In the game. And. And then. And obviously that the. The result is. Is what came last night.
- [40:54]
C
Just to say though, Max, I mean like you know from Brentford's point of view like how far they've come that a team with the revenue of Tottenham actually go there and think that that's a good point. When you think like Keith Andrews. Yeah. 100 not have been most people's choice of a sort of Premier League manager to replace Frank. And like he's like. They look no different I would say. And that's. That's sort of complimentary towards him that they.
- [41:17]
A
Yeah. And slightly worrying about Thomas Frank, isn't it?
- [41:20]
C
Yeah.
- [41:20]
A
It's not helping Frank. The Brentford look just as good as a golden rule.
- [41:24]
C
Do not take managers from Brentford and Brighton because they're not the most important people at the them clubs. And like, that is just the way is.
- [41:31]
E
It's a really interesting point, actually having been very flippant. I want to make like the more serious point, which is that since Lucy invoked the spectra of Ange. Listen, no one's arguing that what spurs did last year were smart or sensible or viable. Right? Come on. And I think it was entirely fair for Thomas Frank to come into that club and think whatever else I do, we need to defend differently. We need to stop. Stop goals going in. We need to stop conceding the same stupid goals every week and to start from the back. But he also does need to, in the beginning, yes, play the bent Ankur, Palinya double pivot and try to stop things from going in all the time. Ban all kinds of passing through the middle and just get it wide and to dribble it, all this sort of stuff. But after a while you need to start to develop some kind of game plan. You need to develop. And I get that that's harder when you've not got Madison in the squad, but you've also, like, you've not got a lot of passers in the team. I mean, I'm very intrigued to see who they target in. In the summer because they need to. They need midfielders who can pass the ball and they. That was the case in the summer as well and they bought Palinia instead. So I don't. Maybe they don't want that.
- [42:35]
A
Let's get Glenn Hoddle, Jabby Alonso, Kaka. That's what we need.
- [42:40]
D
You're never going to progress the ball with Polina and Benson and that is. Yeah, that is a crime in itself. One or the other. Fair enough.
- [42:49]
A
Thomas says. Who would have guessed Crystal palace and Fulham will be joint top scorers for 2026 without Lucy Tom Kearney. Right. There's sort of no moment of quality in the whole offensive quality in the whole night of football, really.
- [43:03]
D
Yeah, it's. It's an interesting one because I've. I've done Palace a couple of times in the last few games and. And there's. I look at Glass, Ollie Glasner, he's. He's obviously trying consistently to make the point that he's not got enough support in terms of the. The players in his squad and they're trying to. Has signed Brennan Johnson, aren't they from. From spurs, who. I'm trying to think whether he will convert him into a wing back or he'll play him in one of the tens because he. He is Historically known for converting wingers into wing backs. But it's as if he didn't quite get. So I did the coupes game in Europe on the Thursday and then they got 2048 hours later Saturday Leeds and then, you know, Leeds ran all over them. But he tried to sort of change it and then. Then ended up you know, not getting really as much out of both games that that he wanted to. And I think they avoided the fourth straight Premier League defeat. Palace, they haven't won since Shelbourn I think it is. So it, it sort of, sort of tumbled into something that's not quite right at the moment. And hopefully from palace point of view whether they, whether they make the signings in January, I'm sure they will because Glasner is basically hanging the. Well if you're not gonna support me then I'm off. And he's supposed to be off anyway. So yeah it probably. There's a little bit of instability behind the scenes there I would suspect. But yes, Tom Kearney who's obviously as everybody listening to the pod knows his mum and dad just live around the corner from me. And I knew Tom, Tom 6 foot 3 inch Tom who got released at Leeds for being too small. Yeah he had the bit of quality and he always like left foot.
- [44:35]
A
So want to say as he sort his parents out the Kenny's living in a big palace obviously because they live.
- [44:40]
D
Around the corner from me. It's an absolute.
- [44:42]
E
Yeah, of course.
- [44:44]
A
Yeah, I thought so. Look, Klassner said afterwards, look, Castania has a massive chance to win it for Fulham. Then Anderson boots over the bar. And Glasner said afterwards, mark, we're in survival mode right now and we've talked about this. It's interesting. You know, he's not quite gone full Moresca but he is unlikely to be there next season. So if you are a player like Brendan Johnson, you're thinking well do I Who's going to manage this club? Like who. What am I joining? Which does affect your journey again, whether you. The players they can get.
- [45:10]
C
Yeah, I definitely, you know, if you are Brandon Johnson, just to use that example, it's no good really. Glasner saying, well I'd see you as this if Glasner's leaving in a. In a few months anyway. I think that you know him constantly talking down things at palace doesn't help. You know, when you're talking about energy around the club. If the manager's not bringing that energy to press conferences, I think it then becomes easier for the players to. To not bring it on on the pitch. They, they come into this, they come into this season though with a squad that was just not deep enough to compete on multiple levels. And it's not like they've got loads of injuries, but even two or three, that first team just takes it out of what palace are able to do and you know, at the moment they're missing their entire right side. Sars away, Afcon and Munoz is injured and like, that's. I, I always felt with palace like that was where the frame threat came from. And so it's just limited at the moment. They only had a couple of shots on target in the game and like Fulham were the side that looked more likely to go on and get the three points. While this wasn't a classic max, I watched three games yesterday and this was miles better than Brentford against Tottenham and Northampton against Stockport in League one, which Stockport was so bad in the first half that Dave Challenger made four changes at half time and they didn't get much better in the second half. So it was, it was a, it was a bit of a slogan.
- [46:41]
A
That is a tough old day. All right, that'll do for part two. Part three. We'll do a bit of afcon and obviously ask Mark what he had for Christmas dinner.
- [46:50]
F
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- [47:29]
A
Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. So at the quarterfinal draw and sort of the road to the final for Afcon's been done. We're going to do an AFCON special the week after next. I think Mali, Tunisia, Senegal, Sudan in one bit. Egypt, Benin vs Ivory Coast, Burkino Faso in one. South Africa, Cameroon, Morocco, Tanzania in the third in Algeria do Congo, Nigeria, Mozambique and the other one, I mean the big story is Gabon. Remarkable story. The government has announced the suspension of the national team, sacking the coach, kicking Pierre Emerica Bamiang out of the squad after three defeats at afcon, Gabon's acting sports minister announced the suspension of the national team on TV after they finished bottom of the group and were eliminated. Given the Panthers disgraceful performance at afcon, the government's decided to dissolve the coaching staff, suspend the national team until further notice and exclude players Bruno Aquale Manga and Pierre Emerica Bamiang. This is simply say de0mambula after Wednesday's 32 loss to the Cote d' Ivoire in Marrakech. That's like Keir Starmer disbanding the England team if we don't get through the group at the World Cup. It's extraordinary story.
- [48:39]
E
I just think spurs fans hear this and say maybe we need to get the Gabonese government in to just kind of. Yeah, to take charge of matters that they seem to know what to do. I'm also worried about this news that they've dissolved the technical stuff. That sounds like a crime. Like it's definitely not. Definitely not. If I was the Gabonese kit man, I'd be laying low.
- [49:01]
D
You will be on the floor.
- [49:04]
A
Do do Gabon. Does the Gavin government have jurisdiction over N17? We'll find out, I guess. Lots of EFL. We'll do an EFL podcast next week, by the way, to catch up on all of it. Middlesbrough lost about Derby. They sit down to third in the Championship. Ipswich overtook them with a 21 win over Oxford. Who down near the bottom. It's very tight, the bottom of the championship. Coventry still top clear by eight points. Having a little bit of a wobble. One win in four. They drew at the Valley last night. Pleased for the Charlton fans to get a point after we never lose at Fratton Park. And I actually, I've written a comment about this. I've gone on a deep dive watching all the vlogs from the Charlton, you know, the guys with the selfie sticks feeling themselves and actually much more sort of interesting and sweet content than I was expecting from, you know, people who hold mobile phones at football matches. I've changed my opinion slightly. A big win for Cambridge. Ben Knight. Knight, who was given his debut by pep and kept Cole Palmer out of the England youth team and is now playing for us. Wonder what it must be like for him going, what am I doing here? But he scored two and scored and hit the bar with an overhead kick. It was wonderful stuff as we beat walsall to go 5th. Answers what did Lars eat for Christmas? Feels like the wrong panelist to ask, but we'll start with that.
- [50:15]
E
Lars, we had pin, which is mutton. Basically. It's Norwegian, traditional West Norwegian thing.
- [50:22]
A
Any more details? Just a plate of meat.
- [50:25]
E
Well, pin the shirt. It literally. Pin the shirt means literally stick meat.
- [50:28]
A
Okay.
- [50:29]
E
So it's basically lamb ribs that have been Cooked in a particular way. They've been cured. And. And also.
- [50:35]
D
Yeah, sounds lovely.
- [50:37]
E
Yeah, it's very, very good.
- [50:38]
A
Lovely stuff, Lucy, you know, we'll save the best for last, of course. Lucy, what's. Talk us through your plate. Feels a bit late now, but it is Mark Langdon's first appearance since Christmas.
- [50:47]
D
We actually went out and it was a little bit disappointing where we went near us.
- [50:51]
A
Oh, dear.
- [50:52]
D
I know by turkey, you.
- [50:55]
A
Neil Redfern, Andy Raml, Darren Barnard and my mom. Yeah, and your mum. But it was a bit. What, the turkey was dry, was it? Or the.
- [51:03]
D
No, the turkey was all right, but it was. We were in the second sitting of this restaurant who'd taken far too much on and it tasted a little bit like dishwasher fluid. Like they've not. They'd not rinsed his plates properly. So, yeah, it was pretty disappointed stuff.
- [51:17]
A
Gravy and fairy liquid.
- [51:19]
D
Ashley Ward wasn't happy.
- [51:20]
E
Yeah.
- [51:20]
A
Was I disappointed? Yeah, I kicked off, Mark. Go on, then. Let's just talk us through your big plate of meat. What a way to start the first podcast of 2020.
- [51:30]
C
So the.
- [51:31]
D
The.
- [51:31]
C
The most disappointing thing was went to Fish Monks. They had no lobster tails left. So the start of when that happens. Starter was minus lobster tail. So it was just a sort of basic prawn cocktail. I do. I do miss the lobster tail. In. Had cockles afterwards, though, so that. That was okay. The main. The main course, it was. It was a while ago now, so a turkey. I think I had gammon for, like, our ham for, like, the next week. It felt like. I think that's just. That's just gone Rose. Potatoes, Yorkshire puddings, pigs in blankets. Sausage meat. Meat. Not to be confused with stuffing. When I say sausage meat, sometimes people feel that's a stuffing. It's just sausage meat. And I also had some honey carrots. Interesting as well. Yeah. And then a cake and custard for dessert and, yeah, like I said, some cockles. About nine, half nine that night.
- [52:29]
A
Where's. Where do the cockles go? Where's the space for the cockles in the land?
- [52:34]
C
I can eat pints of their. Max. Don't worry about that.
- [52:37]
A
Good stuff.
- [52:38]
E
You got an idea for the next live show There.
- [52:42]
A
I have six bites of cockles, please. All right, that'll do for today. Thank you, everybody. Happy to hear to you. Thank you, Lars.
- [52:48]
E
Thank you, Max.
- [52:49]
A
Thank you, Lucy.
- [52:50]
D
Cheers, Max.
- [52:51]
A
Thanks, Mark.
- [52:51]
C
Thanks, Max.
- [52:52]
A
Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back on Monday. This is the Guardian. Hey, Sal. Hank, what's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana. And it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana. Just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.
- [53:36]
D
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A
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