← Football Weekly.jpg)
Football Weekly
Turkish delight for Villa and the Premier League relegation battle – Football Weekly podcast
00:51:19
Max Rushden is joined by Barry Glendenning, Archie Rhind-Tutt, Lars Sivertsen and Dan Bardell to discuss Villa’s Europa League success
Loading summary
Transcript134 lines
- [00:00]
Dan Bardell
This is the guardian.
- [00:10]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates Price and Coverage Match limited By state law,
- [00:39]
Aura Advertisement Voice
most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam, call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to 5 million million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24,7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today@aura.com safety protect yourself now@aura.com safety.
- [02:01]
Max Rushden
Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Aston Villa win their first trophy in 30 years. Jubilant scenes from Istanbul to Birmingham as Unai Emery does it again. Insert line. Just what is it about Emery and this competition? And they did it. How Aston Villa do it. Scoring great goals from Rain. Jury Tielemans with perhaps his second best cup final goal ever. And then a glorious one from Emi Buendia. It was a procession after that. Also today, Southampton lose their appeal over Spygate. We'll talk through yesterday's developments. Basically, any team who's been in a playoff position in the last 200 years trying to work out if they have a case to get in. But it will be Hull versus Middlesbrough on Saturday. Then a Premier League preview. Another great opportunity to panic about spurs and wonder if Bournemouth can get into the Champions League. We commence World cup squad. What's he doing there? Why is he not there? And we answer your questions. And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly. On the panel today, Barry Glendenning. Welcome.
- [02:51]
Barry Glendenning
Hi, Max.
- [02:52]
Max Rushden
Hello. Lars Cividson.
- [02:54]
Lars Cividson
Hello, Max.
- [02:55]
Dan Bardell
Hi.
- [02:55]
Max Rushden
Archie Rint hut.
- [02:56]
Archie Rint-Hut
Hi, Max.
- [02:57]
Max Rushden
And for part one, congratulations, Dan Bardell.
- [03:00]
Dan Bardell
Thank you, Max. Thank you very much.
- [03:02]
Max Rushden
That's all right. So let's start then in Istanbul. Villa 3, Freiburg nil, Unai Emery's fifth Europa League title. Thirty years since Villa's last trophy, that League cup win over Leeds in 96. Dan, the floor is yours. How was it?
- [03:15]
Dan Bardell
I mean, obviously, as you know, Max, I was not there. I made the decision to stay at home and, and watch it with my dad, who would not have been able to. To travel to Istanbul in his. In his current state. But do I have regrets? Absolutely. All my mates are there. It looked like it was absolutely incredible last. Last night, but just absolutely elated that we've finally ended that. That trophy drought. Over 30 years without a trophy feels absolutely incredible. Like I was watching it with my stepson, realizing that I was his age. 10 the last time Villa won a trop, we made it look easy in the end. There was not hairy moments, but maybe it was a little bit uncomfortable for the first 40 or so minutes. But then suddenly Villa remembered what they did in the midpoint of the season where we just scored worldie after World Day, and the Tillerman strike is just a thing of beauty. And then it's followed up by arguably an even better goal from Emi Buendia, who I just knew would score because he's popped up with that kind of moment all season. And to be honest, at halftime, I thought Freiberg looked a little bit down and out. And I did just think, oh, my God, we have done it. We have.
- [04:19]
Max Rushden
Yeah.
- [04:20]
Dan Bardell
We are going to lift a trophy.
- [04:21]
Max Rushden
I was trying to work out, Dan, the like, the best way to win a final. Like, is it nail biting? I remember like, like spurs last year, you know, you won the lot. You're just waiting. You're just desperate or whatever. Or is it. Is it this kind of procession where you can kind of really sit back, enjoy the second half? You're sitting there with your dad open another can. They can bring Tyrone Mings, you know, all these people that deserve to be brought on, you know, who are they going to bring on next? You know, Dion Dublin's coming on, there's Steve Staunton, Nigel Spink gets around. You know, it's like, it sort of felt easy and maybe I don't know what the best way to win it is, but like it doesn't change that moment when the full time whistle goes.
- [04:59]
Dan Bardell
I mean, you're speaking to me like I'm a seasoned trophy winner. I haven't got, I haven't got a clue what the best way is to win a trophy. Because in all honesty, the last time in 1996 Villa won a trophy, they won three nil. And it was relatively comfortable the day that Savo Milosevic scored against le. But I think it did show Emery's class that he didn't need to bring Tyrone Mings on, but he's the longest serving player, he's been there for so long. He didn't need to bring Douglas Louise on, who was at Villa for a long time left and has come back and not really been a part of things in the second half of the season because he's not been good enough to get in the team, so he didn't need to do those things. But yeah, it's nice to watch a final in the second half, especially when you score an early goal in that second half as well and feel comfortable and just watch a football match knowing you're about to lift a troph and yeah, you're gonna do it and you don't really need to worry. It was a, it was a surreal night for, for just so many reasons.
- [05:51]
Max Rushden
Yeah. And I'm. Look, I'm not here to make you cry, but like to stay at home and to watch it with your dad. Right, who isn't in the best of health. Just. What was that like?
- [06:00]
Dan Bardell
As I said, there's a lot of moments in the last 24 hours where I've sat back and thought, what, what on earth am I, am I doing here? But just to. If you indulge me for like just a couple of minutes, a Villa fan who I have never met, don't know, messaged me yesterday saying that his, his dad had passed away the afternoon before and they had plans to sit and watch the game together and that I'd done absolutely the right thing. He wishes he could watch it with his dad. That's been taken away from him at the, at the last second. So I'm very aware that like, there's many people who, who watch football, there'll be many people who, who support Villa, that there's people that they'd have wanted to have watched that final with yesterday because it's, it's a generational moment for, for Villa fans. So, so it was absolutely the right thing to do. And like I said, I was 10 last time, so I don't really remember it. We were there at Wembley and my dad was alive in 1982, so he's seen Villa win the big one. But I could tell last night that it meant an awful lot to him. I dragged him on my podcast afterwards and he was getting emotional talking about it and talking about Villa like it might be another 30 years without a trophy. I don't think it will be if Emery stays, but it might be a long a trophy. So to, to take in and, and savor that moment with him and, and the rest of my family. It was genuinely really special.
- [07:22]
Max Rushden
From Opta Joe Aston Villa have scored more goals from outside the penalty area than any other Premier League side in all competitions this season since the Club World Cup. That's 20. Chris writes Villa's three goals had an XG of 0.34. Is this sustainable? Feels very much. Lars, a question for you. As you've been saying, this isn't sustainable, but maybe it is sustainable.
- [07:41]
Lars Cividson
No, but there are two sides to that. Like Villa have regressed in the second half of the season in the league as we've seen. But on the flip side of it, like they have people who strike the ball really well in the team. Like there are people who score low XG chances more often than others. And if you go through like the sort of Villa attacking positions, like I looked this up when Dia in his last season for Norwich before leaving and going to Villa. I mean he's had a really interesting Villa career. That's actually worth talking about. Maybe Dan but I mean he had five goals from outside the box for Norwich like championship the last time, the last season he played for Norwich.
- [08:15]
Max Rushden
Champions League would be good. I don't remember that that Norwich season after Efnoku got them in the UEFA cup.
- [08:21]
Lars Cividson
But yeah, but no but the point is he's a really good ball striker who has that in his locker. Tielemans is a really clean ball striker. So even with the. When he hits like long range passes, he hits the ball really sweetly. Like we shouldn't be shocked that he's. He's belted one in like Rodgers obviously can hit one like Emery. I don't know if this was a conscious strategy for him and of course Monchi when he was the sporting director. But Villa have just accumulated quite a few players who are quite good at shooting. So maybe they're not going to score quite as many from range next season and the season after that. But we should probably not be shocked that they're scoring more like bangers than a few other Teams I could mention. I think that's fair. But also I would send that over to Dan. Like, I'm really fascinated by Buendia having this season and I say this because I've always been a Buendia truther. I believe he is a good player actually and it just hasn't always worked out the way I thought it would at Villa. And he probably wouldn't even have been there if PSR wasn't a thing last summer and they had more maneuverability in the market. But he's had a really good season for you guys.
- [09:23]
Dan Bardell
I mean even the last day of the transfer window in back in August or September, whenever, whenever it closed, if a team had come in for him, Villa would have sold him. He was, he was out the picture. He was. He got an awful injury a few years ago when he'd had a really good preseason and missed the entirety of that season that Villa qualified for the Champions Leagues. That would have been 23, 24. Came back in 25 first half of the season on the bench. Barely ever came on. Emery just didn't fancy him. And he went on loan to. To Leverkusen in the second half of the season and didn't get much of a. A look in there. But he came back in the summer determined that he was. He was going to make an impact at Villa. And you know, many people would have laughed at that, probably me included. I thought his time had. Had been and gone at at Villa. I wasn't sure he'd be able to make any kind of impact. But he's forced his way into the team. He did everything he could in his, his early substitute appearances. And look in the second half of the season he's like Villa Villa have had a patchy 20, 26, but he's always just been capable all season of just popping up with a, with. With a moment of magic. And I think he's in double figures for goals, which is. Is absolutely outstanding from him. I doubt he's ever done that, particularly at the, at the highest level before. So he deserves so much praise for his resilience and his. And his character and his battling the way he's pulled himself into. Into Emery's thinking and you now that guy is going to be a. Be a Champions League player next season. Man of the match in the Europa League final. Like although I' sometimes you. You can't argue with. With what he's done this season.
- [10:52]
Max Rushden
I mean you're, you are a Yuri Tillerman's truth about. You've talked about how good he is like, there's something about a volley, you know, and you of just like the purity of connecting with a ball that, I don't know, is. Is something I like. Our WhatsApp group instantly just sort of went ping because it was like, I don't know why. What it is about hitting a volley that's different to other goals. But he. It was so good.
- [11:14]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, a really sweet strike. And we know he has that in his locker. Needless to say, it came from a set piece. So the camera automatically cuts to Austin MacPhee on the touchline, who sort of looks like bass technician from a elderly heavy metal band. But there's so, so much that has to go right for those set pieces to work. Just from the initial straightforward pass from Luca Dean to Morgan Rogers. Then the cross has to be perfect. The other Villa players have to drag the Freiburg players out position legally drag them, I hasten to add, not physically drag them. And then that volley while moving backwards, it's really hard. It's difficult to pull that off and to aim it with such precision through the gap that had opened. It's just people talk about these set pieces as if it's right, this is what we're going to do. And then the players just go and do it. One presumes they have to practice it over and over and over and over again on the training ground, and more often than not, it probably doesn't work. So to pull it off in a final and for that to be your opening goal after a look. Freiburg didn't offer much last night, but the first half hour was very cagey. So to break the deadlock with a goal like that is just terrific.
- [12:50]
Lars Cividson
It would be really funny if the planning meeting for this set piece was McPhee going like, you run over here, you run there to take the marker with you there. You pass the ball to him, you just cross it into the box, and then you, Yuri, you're just going to hit an incredibly clean volley whilst moving to the side, and then everything will work out. It's really good. This is a great plan. Maybe this is how they drew it up, but I feel like there would be a bit of a hush and a silence falling over the room. And your Retielman's going, yeah, okay. I mean, I guess this is an easy scheme for us to pull out. I'm just going to hit that volley 10 out of 10 times.
- [13:23]
Archie Rint-Hut
It took me until about the fifth replay to see this, but there's another detail as well, which is the center backs. When the Corner's being taken. They're pointing. Yeah, take it short, take it short. So there's some good acting involved in this as well. And there's so many details to this and it did feel like an NFL style play that the Aston Villa were running there. And I have to say, having. Having been in the stadium last night, it. It's so nice to be at a final where both sets of fans are not used to winning things. Yeah, the energy from the Villa fans last night was exceptional. We're talking even an hour before kickoff. I'm sure that the players could hear them when they were coming out the tunnel already. I mean, of course, coming up the tunnel. No, when they're in the dressing room is what I meant. Even knowing what Freiburg could be capable of on their best day, I always thought if Villa are gonna have to have one of their worst days for something to happen here. And look, I know that this pod has given a lot of love to John McGinn in the past, but look, given that this man puts the ass into Aston Villa, we need to give him even more, I think, because I've not had the privilege and the pleasure of watching him live as often as others, but just the control that he gives them and just the unique style, Ike, of the way the. I mean, look, that early yellow card that he wins after five minutes in a final, these are important little things because it gives you the run on a fullback where you're going to need that when. If things getting tough. So, yeah, I wonder, Dan, what his statue will look like. I think it needs to be at least a cast of his behind.
- [15:23]
Dan Bardell
I mean, I like my wife's behind very much, but it is very close between us and John McGinn's.
- [15:30]
Max Rushden
I believe you're dragging this podcast into the gutter like that. Sorry.
- [15:36]
Dan Bardell
There's been. There's been a lot of like, I don't know if there's a meme meme or whatever going around. Is it the time that John McGinn dressed up in a turkey suit at Buddy Moore Heath around Christmas and people have been using chat GPT to make that image of him in the turkey suit as a statue outside Villa parks? I think that would be the one that would get the vote from the Villa fans. But he's, he's a. An incredible man. Like what he's been through, through the club as well, coming from the championship, playing in every level of Europe, becoming captain and, you know, scoring double figures for him this season as well, which he's never done before. Like genuinely, he is a club legend. And for me now Paul McGrath got aside, I think you've got to be saying that he's Villa's best Premier League era player in terms of longevity and everything he's done for this football club. Because when he plays well, Villa play well and when he's not there, my God, you notice he's also such an
- [16:29]
Lars Cividson
unusual type of player. Like he reminds you of like a mid-90s box to box midfielder of the kind that just doesn't exist anymore. And Emery has found like the perfect place way to use that because the way football is now, you probably don't want that right in the middle of the park. He'll leave a lot of gaps because he needs the freedom to move around and find good positions and get forward. So you use him as this sort of strange inside winger type of thing that Emery does with the freedom to, I think go pretty much wherever he wants. And it seems to like be a really smart way of figuring out how to use this very unique set of characteristics that he has in a way that really works for the team.
- [17:07]
Max Rushden
Owen says Villa have plenty of good players, there are tons of good managers in the Premier League, but Emery is by distance the most value added manager in the league. Where would Villa be without him? I'm never really that fussed, Barry, about who wins manager of the season, but like the job he's done is extraordinary, especially because that, you know, did they have a bad start or a bad middle? There was a time when it was all a bit flat. We didn't have high expectations of them.
- [17:28]
Barry Glendenning
They had a very bad start. I think they only took three points from the first 15 available, if that. And then they went on this remarkable winning run in sort of the middle of the season. Winning matches in the Premier League and the Europa League. I think they only lost one out of about 18 or 19. Was it Dan? I think. I think they lost against Liverpool and won all the rest. But so that was a remarkable run. I mean he also had to cope with midfield injury crisis during the season. He's a bit financially hamstrung, PSR wise, so wasn't able to do much if any business in January. So what he's done is remarkable, particularly when you think of where Villa were when he took over from Steven Gerrard. I think it's remarkable. I think Dan said this last time he was on, I mean it's not that big a deal, but I think he's a very conspicuous absentee from the Premier League. Manager of the season. Shortlist, but I think they were probably hedging their bets putting Pep and Mikel Arteta in because they had to get the shortlist out before they knew who won the title. So maybe if they were doing it again, he'd be in and Pep would be out. I'm sure he doesn't care about that. He's a brilliant manager. What's interesting now is what do Villa do next season? Is there potential for them to have a tilt at the title? Liverpool are in disarray, Chelsea are in disarray. Manchester United are a bit of an unknown quantity. Is it conceivable they could could give Arsenal a run for their money next season? It would sure make for a great story given, you know, Arsenal fans don't hold Emery in particularly high regard. I think some of them out are outrightly hostile towards them. Dan, what kind of financial position are in? Are they still on a. A very tight reign? PSR wise it looks like someone will
- [19:38]
Dan Bardell
still have to be sold in the summer. But the Champions League qualification gives more flexibility than they would have had. And Villa are quite an old squad. I think the average age is the, is the highest in the, in the Premier League. This group of players, many of them have been there since around 2020, 2021. Like there's not been much term when Villa have spent money. They haven't spent it brilliantly at times. There will need to be a little bit of a refresh in the summer. But in all honesty, now those a trophy kind of want to keep them together and see if they got a taste for it because quite often the first one's the hardest one to win, isn't it? And you know, they've done that now, so you wouldn't want to lose too many from that. That group. Now they've got that experience of winning the trophy.
- [20:18]
Archie Rint-Hut
Could I just give some quick love to Freiberg please, because, because look, they have done so well to get this far and to play against Aston Villa was look for them a step too far. And they did need to make it to halftime at most 1 nil. And as Dan says, you could feel the energy be sucked out of them. But look in, in context, since Unai Emery arrived at Aston Villa, they've spent more money on transfers than Freiburg have spent in their history. In fact nearly double the amount, which is, you know, there's still a lot of respect to be had for what Villa have done because if you look at Villa's side, they've not bought stars, they bought players who they can mould and who can grow. But Freiburg have done this all off their own back. And if you look at the players that they had there in their starting lineup last night, if you combine the amount of years they've been at the club for including in their Academy, you reach 90 years. It's incredible how much patience and continuity, how far that has taken them in terms of going to a European final. And you saw it by the fact that all of the fans stayed. Even when Villa were lifting the cup, it was insane for the fact that they wanted to say thanks to their players twice over. And look, they were, they are. They've qualified for the Conference League again, which feels like a more winnable competition as long as Chelsea aren't in it for them next season. The problem is Villa was so strong even that, that Matty cash challenge in the first half where you think you might have seen them given before, there was no point having seen Freiburg in a DFB cup final four years ago where they go one nil up and they go a man up because RB likes to get a player sent off. And then they crumbled completely because they just didn't have. Yeah, they didn't have it mentally or they didn't have the physicality to take it over the line. It's very difficult to begrudge Villa's victory.
- [22:29]
Lars Cividson
It's maybe noticeable or interesting that in the two seasons we've had of the Europa League since they changed the format so that you don't get teams coming in from the Champions League from the group stages. The the teams Mourinho very humorously referred to as the failed Sharks from the Champions League, which is a great phrase. We no longer get the frail Sharks. In those two seasons we've had an all English final and now we had an English winner with two English teams knocking each other, knocking one English team knocked out in the semis in an all English affair. I do wonder if this is a trend we'll be seeing and this is not taking anything away from Villa whatsoever. But without those also rounds for the Champions League, I don't know if there are any, you know, you're not going to have a lot of teams in the Europa League that can, you know, compete with the sort of financial firepower that the mid ranking teams from England bring. At the end of the day, Villa's wage bill is about three times what Freiburg's is. So. And this will be the story very often and again, not taking anything away from them. But I do think that's an unintended consequence of Changing the format in that way.
- [23:34]
Max Rushden
Yeah, it's a really interesting point because nobody liked the. The failed Sharks getting an opportunity to still be Sharks. But at the same point, you, you know the Conference League is the same, right? You could see that domination and, you know, obviously we don't know what's going to happen in the Champions League final, but I wonder what. How UEFA will feel about that. Sid Low with an interesting tweet saying, like, in 24 hours, Mikel Arteta to Carson to its first league in 22 years. Andonia Raiola took Bournemouth to Europe for the first time ever. Unai Emery took Aston Villa. So, first European trophy in 44 years. First of any kind in 30. Is all born within 30 miles of each other in Gipuzcoa, a municipality in Spain. So what a footballing managerial hotbed that is. Were they born with tactics boards, you know, given to them?
- [24:20]
Lars Cividson
Honestly, if I lived there, I would set up like a guest house and make it like a place of pilgrimage for, like, tactics hipsters and, like, football bloggers and aspiring coaches.
- [24:30]
Max Rushden
A residential Jonathan Wilson holiday.
- [24:33]
Lars Cividson
Wilson Hotel, Jonathan Wilson, the Wilson Books, a website that only gets that German tactics website that I forget the name of. The only site you can access on the laptop will be, like, the tactics blogs and you can have Wilson posters everywhere. Be very good. I think that's a business idea.
- [24:52]
Barry Glendenning
I think that it's like the polar opposite of one of those club 1830. Come on holidays and have as little fun as this. Imagine.
- [25:08]
Max Rushden
Yeah. After breakfast, between 10 and 12, we'll be doing 3, 4, 1, 2. We'll stop for lunch and then we'll move on to wingbacks.
- [25:19]
Barry Glendenning
Then we'll go and visit Michael Arteta's childhood home.
- [25:25]
Max Rushden
And after dinner, a long talk on inverted fullbacks. How fun.
- [25:31]
Lars Cividson
But have you seen how many views those tactical breakdowns videos get on YouTube and stuff?
- [25:37]
Max Rushden
I haven't. No, I haven't. Dan, any other strong thoughts before we let you go?
- [25:43]
Dan Bardell
Just that I'm absolutely elated. Well done to that group of players, well done to Unai Emery, and well done to the Villa fans as well, who look like they behaved impeccably the whole time they were out there. So, yeah, absolutely brilliant.
- [25:55]
Barry Glendenning
Dan, does a small, or indeed even large part of you seethingly resent your father?
- [26:04]
Dan Bardell
Well, you know what? In 1994, when Villa won the Coca Cola cup, he didn't take me because he decided it was my mom's birthday, so I wasn't allowed to go because it was my mum's birthday. But he went, so I think I resent him more for that rather than. Rather than.
- [26:20]
Max Rushden
Yes, well, at least he enjoyed it. When I decided not to go to Madrid, I was in Madrid for the Tottenham Liverpool Champions League final, but flew back to watch it with him. He really wasn't that arsed, but I'd written a column about it, so he had to come, otherwise it would. Tony. Oh, just quickly, your mates do a Villa podcast. And Prince William, like, I. I don't imagine there's lots of royalists listening to us, but even still, your mates, like, he called him over, was like, all right, Baz or Dad, you know, Darren or whatever.
- [26:48]
Dan Bardell
He's actually called Dan there.
- [26:50]
Max Rushden
Is he? Dan. There we go. And they were like. And he was like, he's a. He's a Villa podcast listener. That's interesting.
- [26:55]
Dan Bardell
Could have been me. Could have been me, Max. If I was, they might be calling me over. Who knows?
- [26:59]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Oh, well, there we are. And Tony says, overjoyed for Villa. I do think that this has gone on too long now. Freed from desire should be considered a war crime and sealed in a lined box for eternity. I don't know, actually, like, it takes me Back to Gumbet 1997 after my a levels. It was the real banger of those clubs and I just don't know. I think it works with the football crowd, but I'm happy to. You know, I wouldn't listen to it of a morning anyway. Well done, Dan. You can go away now. Thanks, pal.
- [27:27]
Dan Bardell
Thank you. Thanks, guys.
- [27:28]
Max Rushden
Dan Bardell there. And that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin with Spygate.
- [27:37]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years. Now, with the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Price and Coverage Match limited by state law,
- [28:06]
SoFi Personal Loan Announcer
high interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a SOFI personal loan. A SOFI personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got superspeed, since you could get the fund funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more, that's s o f I.com power loans originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.
- [28:44]
Max Rushden
Welcome to Part two of the Guardian Football Week. Cleese Soccer Southampton failed in their appeal to overturn their expulsion from the playoff final. They issued a statement before the ruling explaining why they were appealing, and then afterwards they called the decision extremely disappointing, maintaining that the sanction is disproportionate. We know how painful this moment will be for our supporters, players, staff, commercial partners and the wider community who have given so much backing to the team throughout the season. We apologize once again to everyone impacted by this. The club will reflect carefully on the events that have led to this point. Learn from them and tank. When you learn, learn. Don't put a man behind a tree and take the necessary steps to move forward responsibly. While tonight is a painful moment, this football club will respond with humility, accountability and determination to put things right. The FL arbitration panel said we've dismissed Southampton Football Club's appeal against the Independent Disciplinary Commission sanction following the admittance of multiple breaches of EFL regulations. Archie. I mean, we've talked about this already, of course, but it's. Archie, you had some thoughts.
- [29:41]
Archie Rint-Hut
It feels too much. I listened to yesterday's pod and I get Barry's point about, look, they broke a rule and I look, actions need to have consequences, but it feels like the consequences here massively outweigh the actions. And maybe it's because I've been immersed in a culture where in Germany, where there's open training for a lot of the time, but also there's clothes training, which people try and watch, and RB Leipzig's Oliver said that, look, they've had people hiding in bushes trying to watch things this season. There's a quote I remember from Edin Terzic a few years ago where he said when Jurgen Klopp was in charge at Dortmund and Terzic was working under him as a scout, that he used to dress up as a security guard and watch the final training session inside the stadium. And would we call Jurgen Klopp a cheat? I don't know if we would use that word. Do we now go back through history and say Marcelo Bielsa is a cheat because of this? It feels like there's a uniquely English moral outrage that we have talked ourself into here. There's something that the word cheating does that inspires a specific kind of anger. And there is a part of me where I think when it comes to English football's moral compass, can we take the right things seriously? I don't know. Like, I get that, look, there was a rule, but it does feel like a significant jump from £200,000, was it for Marcelo Biosa, to this. And like the players effectively having their season null and voided. It feels like, yeah, there's. There's so many elements to it. Max.
- [31:45]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Do you know what? I think it's really interesting you say that, because there is definitely. I don't know. Don't know what you think, Barry. This idea, and I've heard a lot of people sort of say this going, it might be all right over there, but not in our game. You know, that. That kind of, that kind of thing. I really just don't know. Like, I don't know. Like, when, when Southampton released that statement saying it was disproportionate and they listed loads of, you know, clubs that had come under that had, you know, committed breaches of. Of different varieties, and then said, look, this is why it is egregious to what's happened to Southampton. It sort of made sense to me, but at the same time, if you're Middlesbrough, you'll be like, well, they shouldn't be there. I. I don't know, like. Like the full gamut of explanations, you know, makes sense to me. People saying, look, finally, like a football administration has stood up and made a decision, like for the first time in ages. That's good. I don't know. I'm really torn on it, Barry.
- [32:38]
Barry Glendenning
It's not disproportionate because all that has happened is that Southampton have been kicked out of a competition. They tried to win by cheating in it, and that's completely reasonable. Now, the fact that the prize for the competition is worth north of £200 million is irrelevant. If you cheat in any competition, you should expect to be sanctioned and. And kicked out of it. And I don't see what else the EFL could have done. I can't think of a less severe punishment that wouldn't have resulted in Southampton benefiting from their cheating. So. And as for the statement, I mean, hogwash. They say they fully acknowledge the seriousness of the matter and then go on to point out the many ways in which they clearly don't acknowledge, seriously in the matter the haughty disdain they had, say, for Lewton getting a 30 point deduction when they were in League Two because they were only a League Two club, so it didn't materially affect them. I found that extremely distasteful and arrogant. They've just handled this so badly from start to finish. And I have little or no sympathy. But yeah, ultimately all that's happened is they cheated in the competition, so they've been kicked out of the competition. I have no problem with that.
- [34:10]
Lars Cividson
I'm a little bit more with Archie in that I'm slightly puzzled by the sort of selective morality of the English football culture and community. I mean, comparing it. The previous Spygate was nonsense. Like the Leeds one, you had a man who stood on a public path and looked through a fence and that ended with a 200k fine.
- [34:27]
Max Rushden
Like what?
- [34:28]
Lars Cividson
That was total nonsense in this case. Okay, the fella's gone onto private property and filmed what was going on there. That is clearly bad. And some kind of sign, like that's not behavior that can be condoned or defended. Really. We talk about like if you try to cheat in a competition. Like players cheat constantly. Every single game you watch, you have players exaggerate, contact and try to.
- [34:50]
Barry Glendenning
And if they're caught, they get punished.
- [34:52]
Lars Cividson
They don't get thrown out of the competition. You have players claiming for throw ins they knew came off them last. Like, cheating is completely ingrained in the way we play football. The clubs break financial rules constantly. Stuff like approaching players who are still under contract is technically illegal. Happens absolutely all the time. There are some forms of things that are technically cheating because it's going against the rules to gain an advantage that we're completely fine with. But then watching someone train is so egregious that you need to chuck the whole team out of the competition. Like, I don't get that. That seems weird to me, but I will, I, I, I, I, I accept that there is seriousness to this. Given the whole trespassing and filming stuff that's really weird and unexpected, unacceptable behavior and, and, and, and feels. It feels like something there should be like criminal laws against, to be honest. In the same way you can walk into someone's back garden and start filming what's, what's happening there. Like, it's really, it's not good behavior. I'm not defending the behavior. And, and, and serious sanctions are warranted. But chilled out. We are at other forms of cheating in the sport. The absolutely sort of moralizing and wailing about this feels weird to me.
- [36:06]
Max Rushden
Archie.
- [36:06]
Archie Rint-Hut
I also just wonder. We assume that if you're filming, if you're filming and you've got this knowledge that you're therefore going to take the right conclusions from your cheating. If anything, Southampton have proved that they couldn't do that in the three games that they did it from.
- [36:25]
Max Rushden
No, no, you're right. But that is kind of irrelevant, Archie, isn't it?
- [36:28]
Archie Rint-Hut
How. How much are you materially influencing the game? Like, how, like, Lars talks about the, you know, selective morality. Like, you know, when you see a player running over on the pitch and he's looking at the note which has been passed to. To the player, like, that's technically gaining information on. On. On. On what they're doing. That's. And that's kind of what I mean is that it just feels like a jump. And, and also it feels like the. Feels like the efl, like lots of other sporting bodies have been quite negligent in the past in terms of being able to get onto certain issues, but they found something here where they can make an impact. And it feels like as a result, they are trying to show a new kind of strength that they've not been able to show in the past. And I think that it. I do think we are going to see Pandora's box being opened here. Because usually, for example, when you see, you know, when teams protest the result of a game because of an incorrect refereeing decision, and every time it gets turned down, like, no matter what. Because we know that if you do overturn that decision, then suddenly everybody's going to start to do it. And you've seen it in terms of the amount of people who. Since the. Who since the Southampton decision's been made, other teams in the championship going, well, actually, I think we've got a case here for Wrexham being like, we should be instated into the playoffs and whatnot. I know it was one Wrexham player, but you get my point.
- [37:57]
Barry Glendenning
Matt Letissier likened it to being caught stealing a Mars bar from a corner shop and being charged with murder. And that's not a good analogy because what's happened to them is they've been caught stealing a Mars bar from a coroner shop, so they've been kicked out of the corner shop shop, and that's. That would be completely normal behavior for a shopkeeper to do that.
- [38:24]
Max Rushden
I do agree on the selective morality thing. I think that is. That is interesting. And whether you say, well, if you're going to be moral about this, you need to be moral about everything else, or is it better be at least moral about something DFL should have set
- [38:37]
Barry Glendenning
in stone what the punishment for this offense they decided was an offense was when they decided it was an offense, but they set a precedent now and it just unfortunate for Southampton that they are the victims of it. But their presumption that they were going to win the playoff final that had been somehow diddled out of 200 million quiz. Again, ridiculous.
- [39:01]
Max Rushden
Yeah, well, holla, you know, you know, exploring their options, as is a phrase that I think every club is doing. You know, Cambridge were in the playoffs and old Division 2 in 1992, so maybe we should explore our options about not playing Middlesbrough because they'd been preparing for Southampton. You know, it's so. It, it is. And you know that it's been tricky for them. It's tricky for Middlesbrough. You know, it's because they. Were they going to play, Weren't they going to play? Yeah. And I, I think part of it is it's really easy to understand. Spying person filming behind tree, easy to understand. Breaching financial regulations, hard to understand. And easier for lawyers to go, absolutely. There is this case, you sell this hotel to yourself, whatever, you know, whereas lawyers can't really go, well, he was just looking at the tree, you know, like we know he was looking at the thing. It's like an easy crime for all of us to understand. And so that makes a difference, I think. Paul Middlesbrough at 3:30 on Saturday. We'll of course talk about that on Monday's pardon. That'll do for part two. Part three we'll do a Premier League preview.
- [40:04]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [40:23]
SoFi Personal Loan Announcer
High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a SOFI personal loan. A SOFI personal loan could repackage your bad debt debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit sofi.compower to learn more. That's s o f I.com P-O-W-E-R loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.
- [41:02]
Max Rushden
Welcome to Part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's do a Premier League preview. Then it's all about the relegation fight. Tottenham 38 points from 37 games. West Ham 36 points from 37 games. West Ham at home to Leeds. Spurs at home to Everton. Lars, you are Tottenham. What do we think? How are you feeling?
- [41:17]
Lars Cividson
No I feel terrible about it because really I was looking at the betting odds for this and the betting market seem pretty clear that it's fine. It's like the implied probability for spurs to go down. It's something like 85, 15 in favor of like 85% chance of spurs Bear staying up. And I don't buy that at all. That's very much not how I feel. Thing is, broadly speaking, I think the Deserbi thing has worked better than I honestly thought it would. I think he has shown that he can be quite pragmatic. Like I was worried he would come in and try to get them to like bait the press and play dainty little passing moves straight through the middle with the midfielders that Sabers have. And I thought it'd be completely disastrous. So this run of games now where they picked up eight points in four games, that, that was a very happy surprise. And they come into the final day in a position where really they need one point against Everton to stay up. And I do kind of think if you can't get a point against Everton at home on the last day of the season to stay up, you don't really deserve to be in the Premier League. It does kind of come down to that. I think it's a position you probably would have taken a couple of weeks ago. And while Moises Everton have been very solid this season and they're not a fun opponent to have to face in that situation, it is something spurs really should be able to do. And I've been kind of happy with, like when you get a quote unquote big team who find themselves in this kind of situation near the bottom of the league, the cliches will be they don't know how to fight and graft and like they're not prepared to be in this position. There's been quite a bit of fight shown. You know, Richarlison leading the line and running around Paulinia having obvious shortcomings, but, you know, being combative in midfield. I think Bentonkur's rid made a real difference after coming back in. You're not seeing, like this doesn't look like a team who think they're too good to be in this position. This does look like a team who still have a lot of injuries. And you see the Madison has gotten on the pitch recently. What a difference he makes. Like having an attacking, creative guy with any kind of quality to knit things together, that makes a huge difference. But in the end, yeah, one point against Everton should be doable.
- [43:23]
Archie Rint-Hut
I think it's Going to be really interesting to see what would happen if West Ham score first on. On Sunday and what influence that would have on the atmosphere at spurs, because. Exactly. Such is the way that this kind of news would ripple around the stadium. That would only induce more nerves. And sometimes actually seeing the fact that Everton have not won any of their last six games somehow makes you think, is it more likely then that they could get something at spurs on the final day? And they tend to play quite well away from the Hill Dickinson.
- [44:02]
Max Rushden
Yeah, they've got a good record. I looked at it, thinking maybe their away record's terrible, but it isn't. And Tottenham only won twice at home. I don't know if you've had any more thoughts since yesterday, Barry, on this.
- [44:12]
Barry Glendenning
No. Everton's season, while it has gone better than I, far better than I thought it would, is really fizzling out into a big shoulder shrug. And I think despite the fact that there aren't anywhere near a relegation battle, there seems to be murmurings of disquiet about the Moesian style of play simmering around Hill Dickinson. So he. He kind of needs a decent performance and a win to just steady the ship a bit. Look, the spurs are very much in the box seat, but who knows what could happen?
- [44:49]
Max Rushden
Who knows? And Leeds have maybe five or six injuries. You know, they. They played well at Tottenham and then they had a good win at home to Brighton, didn't they, in the last game? Maybe they signed off at Elland Road and now they're on the beach.
- [45:01]
Archie Rint-Hut
Yes, I. Archie, how do you feel?
- [45:03]
Max Rushden
I just don't want to jinx anything. Archie. I'm not saying anything. I cannot believe Tottenham have only won two games at home this season. I cannot believe that, like, that is so staggeringly bad for. You know, they have loads of injuries, but that is. That is so bad over the last two seasons. Their home record is so awful. Imagine having a season ticket and having to watch that and watch that and just, oh, they've had two chances to stay up and they haven't managed it yet. And, oh, God, I'm just praying because, like, I like talking about them and, like, I won't be able to talk about them that much because they won't be in the Premier League. And we talk about the Premier League.
- [45:40]
Archie Rint-Hut
We'll have to have a max minute on Spurs.
- [45:42]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I'll have to join. Not the top 20. That I'll have to do. I have to transfer to them in the Champions League race. If Villa lose to City and Liverpool beat Brentford and Bournemouth Get a point.
- [45:54]
Barry Glendenning
Point.
- [45:54]
Max Rushden
Then Bournemouth would be in the Champions League, which would be extraordinary. Barry.
- [45:58]
Barry Glendenning
Yeah, it would be extraordinary. It would be well deserved. And Nirola will not be there anymore and you'd wonder how he'd feel about that. Probably fine. But it would be a shame, I think, that we won't get to see him go through this journey with Bournemouth, who I think under Ariola do pretty well in the Champions League if I'm honest. They can give any team a good game. Brighton aren't out of the mix. I think they can still finish in the Champions League spot in sixth if Villa finished fifth. To be clear. I've said this before. I don't want six Premier League teams in the Champions League. It's too many and I don't think it's good for the competition. But then the competition is such a mess in the first half of the season. Doesn't really matter. Brighton could still make it if Bournemouth don't. And. And yeah, it'd be nice to see any either of them in it.
- [46:54]
Max Rushden
If Bournemouth lose and then Brian beat Manchester United, they would finish sixth. Brentford could still get into Europe. Of course. It'll be Pep's farewell and Bernardo Silva's farewell at the Etihads. Barney, Ronnie's written a really good piece about, you know, the balance between how great Pep has been and you know, the. The regime behind it and the.
- [47:16]
Barry Glendenning
He posted that on social media. Quite a few Manchester City fiance don't think it's a good piece.
- [47:22]
Max Rushden
Is that right?
- [47:22]
Barry Glendenning
Y And they've been very vocal. They've called Barney a lot of words. I have also called Barney over the years, but for different reasons.
- [47:35]
Max Rushden
Palace play Arsenal in the. The deadest of dead rubbers. Yes.
- [47:39]
Barry Glendenning
Sorry, just Max Sunderland can still qualify for Europe as well.
- [47:43]
Max Rushden
They can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Home to Chelsea.
- [47:45]
Barry Glendenning
So that would be very exciting.
- [47:47]
Max Rushden
Yeah. Archie, do you want a. A Fulham thought the home to new
- [47:50]
Archie Rint-Hut
car playoff for 12th. You know, it's what Barry forecasts at the start of the season. You know, we're all up for it. I've got to say I do think it would be best if Marco Silver and Fulham parted ways at this point.
- [48:05]
Max Rushden
Interesting.
- [48:07]
Archie Rint-Hut
Because things, they are coming to a natural end. It's more that he's been fishing for a move for a while now. But also I just think that the players aren't really on board with his ideas anymore. And I'm not saying that there is someone who is better out there, but I think that the players need a fresh energy. Do I trust the club to find the right character. Are the structures in place? I don't know. I really don't know. But there's a lot of disquiet at full amongst the fans of how much the season has fizzled out and given the opportunities there could have been to get a Conference League spot, it wouldn't have taken that much more. And I just. The thing that annoys me is I wish we could say goodbye to Marco Silva and say thank you so much for what he's done. And yet it doesn't feel like that's going to be the case because it's just kind of left trailing on Bernie Wolves.
- [49:08]
Max Rushden
What a last on match of the day of the season guarantee that is. But good luck to both of them. World cup squads are filtering in. Barry, the Scotland squad, what do you make of it?
- [49:16]
Barry Glendenning
No real surprises to be honest. Tommy Conway misses out through injury, so Ross Stewart has been drafted in for the first time since 2022. Steve Clark is famously loyal to his players who served him well and there's nothing wrong with that. Ollie McBurney misses out and his form suggests he's probably worthy of a place in the squad. But Lyndon Dykes is a Clark favorite. Lyndon Dykes has been there for the qualifiers and Lyndon Dykes has never. That I'm aware of being caught on a hot mic saying he didn't want to play for Scotland in a friendly because he could more or less couldn't be bothered. So no big shock there. Finley Curtis, a 19 year old who's had a good season on loan, a Kilmarnock from Rangers. He's the baby of the squad, I think. And Craig Gordon is very much the granddad of the squad. He's going to the World cup age 43 and will he could well play. He could well start for Scotland. It's between him and Angus Gunn for the goalkeeper's jersey. And I'm biased because Gordon was a good player for Sunderland who suffered some horrific injuries. But I, I'd call for Gordon.
- [50:39]
Max Rushden
Neymar's also going. Speaking of man who's had some injuries, Carlo Ancelotti picked him over Joao. Pedro Vinicius Jr. Rayan from Bournemouth. Igor Thiago from Brentford also in there. Grown men were in tears in the streets because Neymar made the squad. Michael Butler wrote an interesting piece about
- [50:55]
Barry Glendenning
how Tears of happiness or yeah, you
- [50:58]
Max Rushden
know, he's viewed slightly differently in Brazil to how he is here. Uh, but interesting to see if he made an impact. Uh, Cristiano Ronaldo's in the Portugal squad. Of course he'll go to a record breaking sixth World Cup. More World Cups than Sir Stephen Redgrave. Well done.
- [51:10]
Barry Glendenning
That is negligence. The way he keeps getting picked for Portugal. It is criminal negligence. I would say.
- [51:18]
Max Rushden
Well off the bench and coming on for 10 minutes.
- [51:20]
Barry Glendenning
If he was not in their squad, they would have to be right up there among the favourites to win that tournament.
- [51:26]
Max Rushden
Yeah, I mean I look forward to this discussion during the World cup football weekly, daily. On a daily basis.
- [51:32]
Lars Cividson
I really hate to be in the position where I'm actually like sticking up for Cristiano Ronaldo, but I think with the lack of options you kind of. There isn't really any. I think if there was a Portuguese number nine who was like playing every week and banging in goals for, for a big team, then you could have the discussion at least. But Gonzalo Ramos is not getting in the team at PSG and is not having a great time with them and there's just isn't really anyone. So I think the big question is like if Cristiano can accept that it's not all going to be the Cristiano show and that he might have to come off the bench on some games,
- [52:13]
Max Rushden
some if, then that's some if.
- [52:14]
Barry Glendenning
That if is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
- [52:17]
Lars Cividson
If it's a big if. I will concede that the if is the biggest if around and, and yeah, we'll kind of see how that goes. And I also just like his recent record in internationals is pretty good. Not just kind of steel clubbing small countries and the qualifiers, but also in the sort of Nations League final he' scored some goals. So in a tournament where there will be a lot of slow football probably anyway because of the heat, maybe there is a place for him.
- [52:43]
Max Rushden
Finally, David in Horsham writes. Hi Max, Barry and the gang. I know you'll probably be inundated with emails from insufferable gooners gloating and realizing your fears. Max and Barry, I wanted to email in and say a huge thank you for being such a significant part of a football season that does and will mean so much to me. I've listened to every pod this season as I have every season. This season has hit different. My granddad's the reason I support Arsenal. Much to my Everton supporting dad's disgust. It was my granddad who bought me my first JBC Arsenal shirt in early 90s. He took me to my first game and even the FA cup final triumph of 93. Supporting a team with such high expectations is not easy. 22 years is a long time. Along the way, I've sometimes wondered whether being a toffee would have made life easier. Wow, there's some Everton fans listening to that going, I don't think so. But today, I'm so glad I got to share a magic moment with my granddad. It's not possible for a person to love Arsenal more than my granddad, Blake. He is in his mid-80s now, in the latter stages of Parkinson's. Back in December, he told family members he didn't think he'd make it to Christmas. For an active man who refereed my games as a teenager, it's been tough watching his body deteriorate. But he's continued to hang in there every day since I knew he didn't have long. I've been praying that Arsenal would get over the line in time for him to see it. I've had to pray a bit harder recently, but they did it and I got to share in the joy with my granddad, who's now in a care home. I FaceTimed. And even the Parkinson's couldn't prevent him from having the most amazing smile on his face. Regardless of what happens later this month against psg, I'm so pleased that my granddad will leave this world at some point in the coming weeks or months, knowing the club he and due to his brainwashing, myself and my kid kids love will be the reigning Premier League champions. Please could you do a shout out to my granddad, Blake, and tell him I love him and I'm so grateful he made me a gooner David in Horsham, West Sussex. Beautifully written, you know, and that is kind of what football means, isn't it? And before I burst into tears again for I don't know how many times on this podcast, I'll go away. I am tired. I've been solo parenting Barry.
- [54:28]
Archie Rint-Hut
I'm.
- [54:28]
Max Rushden
I'm weak.
- [54:30]
Barry Glendenning
You didn't mention it.
- [54:34]
Max Rushden
That'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Archie.
- [54:37]
Archie Rint-Hut
If it's any consolation, Max, he wants you to be relegated at the weekend, so that might take away the tears.
- [54:41]
Max Rushden
Cheers.
- [54:42]
Lars Cividson
Fair enough.
- [54:42]
Max Rushden
Thank you, Lars.
- [54:43]
Lars Cividson
Thank you, Max.
- [54:44]
Max Rushden
Cheers, Baz.
- [54:45]
Barry Glendenning
Thank you.
- [54:45]
Max Rushden
Football Weekly is produced by Taya Papula. Our executive producer is Joel Grove.
- [54:55]
Barry Glendenning
This is the Guardian.
- [55:05]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Price and Coverage match limited by state
- [55:33]
SoFi Personal Loan Announcer
law High interest debt is one of the toughest opponents you'll face unless you power up with a Sofi personal loan. A Sofi personal loan could repackage your bad debt into one low fixed rate monthly payment. It's even got super speed since you could get the funds as soon as the same day you sign. Visit visit sofi.com power to learn more. That's s o f I.com P-O-W-E-R loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply.
- [56:02]
Aura Advertisement Voice
NMLS 696891 most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and sacrifice selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam, call protection, Dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price. Competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself now@aura.com safety safety.