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Dave Kluge Is WRONG About These Players || Fantasy Football 2025
00:32:13
In Episode 244 of the Footballguys Fantasy Football Show, Dave Kluge and Alfredo Brown dig through Dave's rankings, highlighting the players he's most likely to be wrong about. Send your questions to fantasyshow@footballguys.com 🎥....
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- [00:00]
A
Back to school is better. With family freedom from T Mobile, we'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement, eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 8, 20099 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due. If you pay off earlier, cancel contact T Mobile because then you're in on the joke. You can't be in on the joke because then the joke loses itself.
- [00:35]
B
So I will present myself as a consummate professional on the show that has all of the answers.
- [00:40]
A
Yes. If anything, you should have been wearing, like, a lab coat or some sort of, like, doctor's outfit.
- [00:46]
B
Do you want me to go? My closet's right here. I could throw on, like, a suit. I could sit here.
- [00:50]
A
Really? I. I really. I can't stress this enough. I really do not care what clothes you are wearing for the podcast.
- [00:56]
B
So I could take my shirt off.
- [00:57]
A
I'd rather you not.
- [00:58]
B
All right, let's just do this.
- [01:00]
A
I'd rather. I don't care what clothes you are wearing. I definitely care about the clothes you're not wearing. Let's say that. Let's say that. No nipples on this podcast.
- [01:07]
B
Are you wearing pants?
- [01:09]
A
Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.
- [01:12]
B
You care about what we're wearing from the waist up. What's happening? Doesn't matter.
- [01:16]
A
God, if you could see the Crocs I'm wearing right now. Well, you guys all think we're kind of dumb anyways. Fantasy football analysts get things wrong all the time. But so does adp. So does rankings. But today we are going to talk about seven players Dave Kluge is wrong about. This is probably my favorite episode that we will do all year because to just get to call you stupid for like 30 minutes and then the audience gets to do it and they hop in the comments. So do that audience get in the comments, tell Dave why he's wrong. Hit the thumbs up while you're there. Make sure you're subscribed. All the fun podcast stuff. Let's get to the shaming of Dave Kluge.
- [02:04]
B
I'll say right now if anybody makes me cry in the YouTube comments, free football guys subscription. Give me your.
- [02:11]
A
Oh, I Love it. I love it. I'm going to go create about seven YouTube accounts right now. Dave, we've got seven players here, four that you like more than ADP, three that you like less than ADP. Generally, large quantities of people are not wrong when they have opinions together. Right.
- [02:32]
B
Of the crowds.
- [02:33]
A
Right? Like, when has a large group of people ever been wrong about something? So we're gonna talk about why these seven players, you're wrong about them compared to adp. So let's start off with the players that you like more. Kick us off here with your first guy.
- [02:49]
B
Yeah. DeAndre Swift is a guy that I didn't expect to be caping up for this off season, but I think that the stars have just aligned for a very good season. Right now, his ADP is RB24. I've got him ranked as my RB17. And I mean, we're ranking him as RB24. He has been a per game RB24 or better every single season that he has been in the league. So this is like the definition of drafting a player at his floor. I looked back because there is this narrative that I was supporting early in the off season about how Ben Johnson hates DeAndre Swift. Swift, remember, he gave all the touches to Jamal Williams and they traded him to the Philadelphia Eagles for a. For a sack of nickels. Well, if you look that last year in 2022, DeAndre Swift sprained his ankle in week three. And we're looking at a very small sample size, so bear with me here. But in those first two weeks before DeAndre Swift sprained his ankle, he had 28 opportunities. He scored 40.7 half PBR points. He was the RB2 in scoring behind only Nick Chubb. He was actually tied with Saquon Barkley as the RB2, then sprained his ankle, came back, but still finished that season as the per game RB18. You look at what the Bears have done this season this offseason, obviously brought in Ben Johnson, the guy that we're excited about, who's going to make hopefully a more explosive offense. They have fortified the interior offensive line, bring in some veterans that should help with the run game. And then of course, they also drafted Colson Loveland and Luther Burden, which should keep defenses a little bit more honest, hopefully opening up even more rushing lanes for DeAndre Swift. So I know there's this thought that maybe Kyle Menungai or Roshan Johnson is going to come in and be the Jamal Williams in this offense, take all of the touchdowns and who knows, maybe it will happen. But I think that we're just drafting DeAndre Swift at his floor right now. Start looking at the volume in this offense. It's got to go somewhere. At worst, DeAndre Swift is going to be a low end wide or a low end RB2. At best, he could be a top five or a top eight running back in this offense right now, and you can draft him way later than you should be able to.
- [04:41]
A
Did you just say DeAndre Swift can be a top five or top eight running back in this offense?
- [04:45]
B
I certainly did, yeah.
- [04:47]
A
You're disgusting. You're just. I like that. I like that this is an episode where I can openly call you an idiot for that one.
- [04:52]
B
Yes, yes. I, I wish I had like a dunce hat that I could wear on this show and just really kind of lean into it, but I want the.
- [04:58]
A
Tony reality to give you, like, negative points as you do this. So. Okay. DeAndre Swift, you got him seven spots above consensus?
- [05:11]
B
Well, I've got him about 25 spots ahead of consensus. I've got him seven spots ahead just in the RB ranking. So, I mean, I think this guy is going like two rounds later than he should be right now. He's a guy like when I'm drafting, I will scroll down and If I see DeAndre Swift sitting in that ADP list like 15 spots below where I'm picking, I have no qualms about just reaching for him and getting him on my team.
- [05:33]
A
So you're willing to draft DeAndre Swift two rounds ahead of consensus?
- [05:37]
B
That's where I've got him ranked. I, I, I draft him around ahead of consensus. It's about finding that middle ground. Right. Like where I rank him, where's ADP is, and then where I'll draft him is somewhere in there.
- [05:47]
A
I knew it. I knew if I just pressed you on it, you'd out yourself as a fraud. Look at that, Dave. Sorry.
- [05:54]
B
Well, it's the same thing like Demario Douglas. I've got like a 12th round price tag on him, but his ADP is around 18, so I'll take him in like round 14 or 15. There's no reason to pay up when you, you play adp to some extent, yeah.
- [06:05]
A
Rankings are different than adp. Guys just want to throw that out there. Let's go to the player, the next player that you like less than ADP, a guy who is the running back 32 in average draft position, but you have him ranked as the running back 47. That's Jalen Warren for the Pittsburgh Steelers.
- [06:23]
B
Yeah, we just kind of know who Jalen Warren is at this point? I mean, he's been in the league for a while and I think that it was like found money, as Jeff Bell likes to say. Like you picked him up for free in your dynasty league a few years ago and you've got a handful of spot starts from that you felt okay about. Maybe you're able to trade him for a second round rookie pick or something like that. But this is never going to be a guy that you're going to feel good about putting in your weekly lineup, especially with the Pittsburgh Steelers going out and drafting Caleb Johnson. Now, you know, I understand some early off season excitement for Jalen Warren when Najee Harris walked in free agency, but now you got Caleb Johnson, who is just a younger, faster version of what Najee Harris was, and he's going to get plopped right into that same role. And we see this all the time with these third down backs, these scat backs. They benefit so much from playing against light fronts that we can look at their efficiency metrics and say, oh my goodness, like look at the yards after contact, look at the broken tackles. Well, yeah, that's because he's getting the ball out in space on third downs and he's getting paired up against a Nickelback in the open space where he's able to, to, to, to. To make a play, break a tackle. An okay band, maybe a, maybe mildly underrated band is you're.
- [07:27]
A
You were caping for them the other day on Twitter.
- [07:29]
B
I was not. That was misunderstood. What I said was that I think it takes a big man to admit that they are a good band. I don George Kittle's take. I just think that him willing to say they're a good band does make him a strong man. Misunderstood happens all the time on Twitter. I don't even try to refute myself anymore. But Jaylen Warren, you know, a fun player and a good story coming in undrafted, carving on an NFL role. But we, we've seen him in this role for years now and there just isn't a ton of fantasy production there. The efficiency metrics do lie when you look at the context surrounding them. So a good fun player that is going to have a part on this Pittsburgh Steelers offense. But the reality is that he's even if Caleb Johnson goes down, they're going to find somebody else that's going to take some of that early down work. Jaylen Warren is never going to get the, the usage that we want to see in fantasy football. So a lot of people are taking him early I think probably still holding on to some of these early off season convictions that they have in him, but just where he's going in drafts right now, basically off my board.
- [08:27]
A
Yeah, I think a lot of that is just where he was prior to the NFL draft and that ADP hasn't really adjusted as we've gotten closer and closer to fantasy drafts. And like Warren's not been a guy that if Naji Harris isn't available or anything like where you say, okay, he is the handcuff who's going to get just this workhorse role. It's just, it's, it's, it's not in his DNA the way it is. I know how like hokey that sounds and intangible. He doesn't have the size, he doesn't have the skill set. Like that's not typically what you see from him. And I don't think the Steelers are going to do that. Like they told you everything they needed to tell you by drafting Caleb Johnson with their second pick. A guy who I think arguably could be better than Najee Harris in the league for the Steelers in this Arthur Smith offense.
- [09:05]
B
So yeah, probably. I don't know about better like for the Steelers, but almost assuredly better for fantasy. You know, he might take some more losses and not have the tackle breaking ability in the backfield, but he has something that Najee Harris doesn't, which is breakaway speed. So all of those like 12 yard carries that Najee Harris was able to get might turn up in or turn into 80 yard touchdowns when, when, when Caleb Johnson gets those same looks.
- [09:27]
A
That's the thing. Nevermind. I'm not supposed to agree with you. You're an idiot. That's wrong. Next one on here is a player that you like more than adp. I can't even put up the charade here. I'm, I think I'm with you on this one. Rashad White, he's being drafted as a running back 42. Just for the people keeping track at home. That is 10 spots later than Jalen Warren in just running backs. That's not even 10 spots later in a draft. That's got to be like what, three rounds later in a fantasy draft. That to me that's, that's crazy. You've got him 12 spots above in the running back positional rankings at running back 30. So talk to us about Rashad White and why you are or are not a clown for this.
- [10:12]
B
Well, I think that, you know, fantasy managers get so excited by young talents, right? And we saw Bucky Irving Breakout last year. It was exciting. Like Bucky Irving was awesome. I don't want to take away from what he did at all. He was awesome. His ability to make people miss, whether it's in between the tackles or out in the open field, the breakaway speed that he has, he is a very, very fun player. But there's so much context missing from what happened last year. What the production actually looked like, what the splits looked like in usage and Rashad White to start the year. You assume, you know, he him being the incumbent starting running back there, he was still the starting running back and then he picked up this foot injury in week six and that is kind of what opened up the doors for Bucky Irving. But even as Bucky Irving was having this late season breakout where everyone said that he just kind of stole the role from Rashad White, Rashad Wright was still averaging 10.6 rushing attempts and 3.3 targets per game. That might not give you elite ceiling by any means, but that is a very respectable workload, a guy that you can plug into your flex spot. And we know the contingent upside for Rashad White if something were to happen to Bucky Irving is that he was a top five running back just two years ago. So this is a guy who does have some standalone value in an offense that's going to be throwing the ball a lot. He is the primary pass catching running back on this team. And there's the contingent upside that if something happens to Bucky Irving, he goes right back to being the top five running back he was a couple of years ago. So this, I think that fantasy managers have just gotten a little bit too excited with Bucky Irving's late season breakout last year. So I'm a little bit higher on Rashad White and a little bit lower than on Bucky Irving than the consensus is. I think that there is going to be more of a split backfield. I think we'll see some Sean Tucker in the mix as well. But really, this Tampa Bay offense last year was just red hot. You look at it just career highs for Baker Mayfield in basically every single efficiency metric. So if we expect him to not regress hugely, but just regress back to his career averages, that could get them into more shootouts, more close games where they're forced to kind of lean on Rashad White as that pass catching run block or the pass catching and pass blocking running back. So again, not a guy that I feel great keeping up for because he had terrible efficiency two years ago. But last year when we saw the workload Reeled back a little bit, then the efficiency went back up. So now I think he's in a better role where he doesn't need to take 22, 25 touches per game. Kind of keeping him in this role where he can rip off the big plays, catch more passes. I think that's beneficial for fantasy. And now this year you can get him at a massive discount. So another guy that I'm okay, just kind of reaching in round or two early for trying to get him on my team.
- [12:41]
A
Rashad White is a guy that I have not really drafted a whole lot of throughout his career. And now all of a sudden I'm kind of looking at it. I'm just like, yeah, the values there, I think it was, it was a totally different story when last year he was getting drafted, like running back 15, running back 12.
- [12:59]
B
It was like RB8 or 9. Like he was getting.
- [13:01]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I was. Well, he was one of my biggest fades last year. But we say this all the time, like when values change on players, so should your take on these players. And this is exactly what this is.
- [13:12]
A
You're still wrong and you're, you're dumb and you're, you're. I hate you. Next player. I don't hate you. Next player on here, player that you like less. He's the running back 35 in average draft position. So for those keeping track at home, that is ahead of Rashad White, who you just talked about seven positional spots ahead of Rashad White. You, however, had this player ranked as the running back 52 in your rankings. It's Cam Scatter Boo, the rookie running back for the New York Giants.
- [13:44]
B
Yeah, I think Peyton Hillis is a F. Peyton Hillis. I'm sorry. Cam Scatter Boo. I'm so sorry. What a slip of the tongue there. Yeah. I just don't think this guy really has what we want to see in fantasy football. Like if he had an enormous opportunity thrust on him and he was given 300 touches, sure he could probably volume his way into a decent season. But this guy isn't going to get that. They have Tyrone Tracy there, who is a better prospect, who catches a lot of passes and he did have a few issues last year when it came to fumbling the ball. But what we know about Tyrone Tracy is that he is a converted wide receiver. He's going to get the high value touches in this offense. We don't think think the Giants are going to be scoring a ton. So even if Cam Scatter Boo does take over the goal line opportunities. Awesome. Cool. You're going to get three or four touchdowns this year. I'm just not really sold on the player. He's fun. He's got a fun name to say. You know, he's got the, the, the viral clips of him barfing on the sideline during a bowl game. I understand why people like him and why people are getting excited for him, but at the end of the day, he's going to be the RB2 on a team that's not going to be that good. And he's going to get a lot of the low calorie touches between the 20s on early downs. So this is just as simple as me. You know, these guys are going back to back in a lot of drafts on underdog right now. They're typically going off the board within two or three picks of each other. And I think a lot of people are just cowardly wanting to take a cop out and putting these guys back to back in their rankings as well. Well, I'm taking a stand here and I think Tyrone Tracy is a much better running back than Cam Scatter Boo. So where a lot of people are just kind of putting them back back in their rankings and saying, hey, we'll see how this shakes out, I'm saying, no, go out and get Tyrone Tracy and fade Cam Scatter Boo. A guy who is small, doesn't have any sort of breakaway speed. I think he's one of those guys that's going to be able to move the pile on short down and distance, but not a guy that they're going to want to build the offense around. So just an easy fade for me, a guy that I have no interest in drafting this year Cost.
- [15:32]
A
What happens if this Giants team is actually good and they surprise people? There's Russell Wilson is the starter for a little bit, right? Like what if they can run an offense? Malik Neighbors is getting them into scoring position. You get a lot of those stops. The one where Cam Scatter Boo is getting those touchdown vultures right. Like Jackson Dart ends up getting the start and all he's doing is just dumping it down to running backs. Like I'm with you actually on Camp Scatter Boo. I'm trying to put the other side of this argument here.
- [16:02]
B
You know, I think if the team is really good, if the Giants are really good, I still think Tyrone Tracy is the guy that outscores Cam Scatter Boo. I mean, I think the only real out for Cam Scatter Boo would be some like four fluke situation where they end up with like 20 opportunities from the one yard line and cam Scatter is able to plow his way in for a really touchdown heavy season. But at the end of the day, I just want to bet on the better running back. Tyrone Tracy has better speed, he's got better hands, he's a better route runner. He's got explosion that Camp Scatter Boo doesn't Camp Scatter Boo? Like I said, fun name, fun story, but loads of fun. Yeah, but I mean, he's a guy like if you want him to get 3 yards, he's going to get you 3 yards. And if you want him to get 5 yards, he's going to get YOU 3 yards. I think that's just what he's going to be is just kind of this bowling ball that can pick up 2, 3 yards at a time, which there is use for in the NFL. But that's not a guy that I want on my fantasy roster unless he's on a very, very good offense, which I don't expect the Giants to be.
- [16:58]
A
Arizona State fans are going to be in the comments letting you know that you're wrong.
- [17:02]
B
Sorry about that. Arizona State fans.
- [17:04]
A
Yeah. What an institution that is. Let's go to another player that you like more than adp. And honestly, like, I hate this episode right now because I came in with the hype that I was going to disagree with you on a lot of these things, call you stupid, and now I'm just like forcing myself to do it and I'm forcing myself to be devil's advocate and I don't like this because it's not who I am. It's not what I'm about. I want to be truthful to the audience and I want to say there's.
- [17:28]
B
Something to that though, where like, brands do kind of start to align. It's funny, I Jared Smole on the other day and we were talking and you know, Jared Smola and Matt Schoff and Alex Korf and Kevin English, their rankings all look pretty similar by the time the season kicks off. And I've noticed the same with me and you and Jeff Bell and Joey Wright. We talk so much in the off season that we do kind of start to see the game in a similar light. So disagreement is fun and there are definitely players that we disagree on. But here we're talking about, like the biggest flag plants that we're making. And you and I do just tend to have a lot of similar flag plants because of how much we talk throughout the off season.
- [18:04]
A
Not on these last two players that we're going to get to.
- [18:07]
B
All right, we got it.
- [18:08]
A
We got our third to last here. So let's talk about this guy has an average draft position of wide receiver 28. You've got him at wide receiver 22. I think I might have him at wide receiver 21 if I'm being honest. Tetaroa McMillan, wide receiver for the Carolina Panthers. This one is is interesting, Dave, because like I can't even push back on this. I think that we still might have him ranked too low. We have seen what rookie wide receivers can do, especially ones that are going to be dropped into a bunch bunch of volume in an offense with upside.
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B
Well, there you go. Let's talk about the next player.
- [18:40]
A
All right, next.
- [18:42]
B
I mean I really don't have too much to add but it's the top 10 draft capital isn't something to ignore. And people are so quick to be like what about Kevin White and what about Tavon Austin and John Ross and yeah, sure there have been busts, but I looked over the last 25 years and there's about a 65 hit rate for guys to give you a top 24 season if they were drafted inside the top 10 as a rookie. And then of course we've seen the sky, sky high ceilings too from the the Jamar Ch and the Malik Neighbors. And I'll be the first to say I don't think Tedaroa McMillan is on the same label or level as a Malik Neighbors or Jamar Chase. But he's still a very good receiver. But more than anything he's exactly what this offense needs. For the last couple of years they have tried shoehorning receivers into positions that they are all out of position and you see Xavier Leggette trying to play X receiver and he can't really do that. And Adam Thielen who maybe could be an X receiver is a little bit too old at this point in his career to beat the press man coverage. So they have to put him in the slot. And Jalen Coker is just out here playing flanker. And now it seems like Teteroa McMillan is kind of the the bow that you could put on this offense to put it all together. Similar archetype to DK Metcalf who found success in Dave Canalis offense in Seattle and Mike Evans who is going to be good regardless but had a very good year under Dave Canales as well. And now Teteroa McMillan, this big bodied X receiver who can win the crosses across the middle of the field, who can make contested catches, who can make plays after the Catch. Not only is he what this offense needs, but he also now pushes Xavier Leggette into a flanker role where he can be a little bit better. So I think this is just exactly what we need to see. And it's not like the offense was struggling last year. I mean, we saw late in the season, they were hanging in there with the Chiefs, they were hanging in there with the Eagles. Bryce Young, over the final month of the season was tied with Baker Mayfield as the top scoring fantasy quarterback. So I think there's this preconceived notion a lot of people have about Bryce Young that he's just a bust and that he's not good. And they don't realize what happened over the second half of the season. When he came back in, he looked good when he came back, and then he progressively got better every single week. And now Tedro McMillan just makes this entire offense better as well. So a guy that, you know, a rookie getting drafted inside the top 10, I really want to have him on my team. And it seems like a lot of people are just passing on him. And we say that ADP is wide receiver 28. I can't tell you how many times in drafts I have, you know, aggressively targeted Tetero McMillan to the point that I'm saying, you know, maybe I don't reach around early for him anymore then. He's still falling to me below ADP. So wide receiver 28 now. But it wouldn't surprise me once get into redraft season and the more casual fans start plugging in and these preconceived notions about the panthers and about McMillan and about Bryce Young start bleeding and he falls outside of the top 30 in ADP.
- [21:21]
A
I've got Tet. McMillan. Teowa McMillan. Excuse me.
- [21:25]
B
Thank you.
- [21:26]
A
My wide receiver 20 right now, and I might, and I might bump him up based on the Rasheed Rice news here, depending on what that suspension ends up being. Yeah, man, like, I'm. I'm all in on rookies being thrust into situations with volume. Let's. Let's get more of that. Let's just appreciate what we. We have a good player who could be looking at 8 to 10 targets a game in an offense that's going to need to keep up with other teams in the division. So, like, I'm. I'm right there. Let's get to the disagreement stuff, because I want to. I want to. I want to call you stupid a little bit. Let's go to the last player that you like less than consensus ADP and this player's being drafted as the wide receiver 33. You have him ranked as the wide receiver 41. It's Chris Godwin of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And Dave, I will say this over the last. I want to say, let me look at it right here. Not since his rookie year has Chris Godwin ever finished outside of wide receiver 32. Even in half PPR, except when he plays a full season. Last year, he gets injured, doesn't play the full season.
- [22:34]
B
Right.
- [22:36]
A
He's being drafted as wide receiver 33. Lower than his typical floor. You've got him way lower than that wide receiver 41. Explain this to me because I, I still think there's a great player here with Chris Godwin in a good situation with a good quarterback, with a good offense. Why? I mean, it's almost like you're pretty much just out on Chris Godwin. You will have none of him in your drafts.
- [22:58]
B
Essentially I have not been drafting him much. And it's. That just comes down to that dislocated ankle that ended his season. That is a really tough injury to come back from, especially for a receiver that really his game is predicated on route running and coming in and out of those breaks really quickly. That ankle injury could end up impacting him negatively. On top of that, the draft selection of a mecha Igbuka in the first round signals to me that they might have some concerns about Godwin being able to be ready for the season. But really what it comes down to is that Godwin, his splits in and out of the slot have been drastically different. When he is a slot receiver, he's basically a top five wide receiver and.
- [23:33]
A
He'S allegedly going to keep playing in the slot.
- [23:36]
B
Are we sure about that?
- [23:37]
A
That's what he, that's what he has said and that's what the coaching staff.
- [23:40]
B
Has said, that he has wanted to maintain that role because that's where he is most prolific. But I look at a Mecca Ibuka and I have heard, I will say like I've seen the same rumors that you have talked about that Mecha Igbuka is way more versatile than people realize and that Chris Godwin could still play in the slot. I just see that as some coach speak that I'm not putting a lot of water into.
- [24:01]
A
Well, you shouldn't put water into weight.
- [24:04]
B
Weight into.
- [24:04]
A
Yeah, I was like, how are you putting water into Coach speak?
- [24:08]
B
Haven't put a lot of weight into it. And I think it's just that Emeka Ibuga is limited at this point in his career. To being mostly a slot receiver. And if that forces Chris Godwin to get pushed outside, we've seen that he is more of a boomer bus wide receiver three in that role than he is the top five top ten receiver. He is out of the slot. So I just see this changing of the guard is going to happen at some point in Tampa Bay where they have these young talents in Emeka igbuka and Jaylen McMillan and we even saw Kate Otten flashing a little bit last year. You got Mike Evans getting up there in age. You've got Chris Godwin 29 years old coming back from a season ending injury. It's not that I think that Godwin is going to be terrible, but I think that there is a lot of risk in drafting him. And I think the reward sure you could be getting a potential wide receiver one if he just returns to the player he was last year in the same role he was last year. And Tampa Bay runs hot like they did last year. But I don't find myself drafting a lot of Mike Evans and Chris Godwin this year. I find myself deferring more to Ameka Buka knowing that he is going much cheaper and has just as much upside. It's just tough for me to justify paying up for the other wide receivers when I know I can get a Buka for cheaper.
- [25:10]
A
Now that I that I could get like that I totally understand and I find myself doing the same thing going for a mecca Igbuka. I I'm not as low, not nearly as low on Chris Godwin as you are. I have him as wide receiver 33 exactly where ADP has him. Because I think that all the risk that we're discussing here is baked in win at wide receiver 33 and it's just look at the guys that are that are around him. Chris Olave, Roma, Dunes A Jerry Judy. A lot of these guys like really okay, see like I see them all as like the same where it's like Chris Olave has the concussion concerns. Jerry Judy, is he really that guy or is this season an outlier last season outlier. Plus his quarterbacks now Joe Flacco and a bad Browns off. Like there's so many things here where I can say, you know who makes me feel a little bit better and I think I, I still see the ceiling is Chris Godwin and I know that's a lot of I feel analysis there but like we just have years of seeing it over and over and over with Godwin. So I'm a bit more comfortable there. Let's go to the last guy, last guy that you like more than consensus ADP. He is being drafted as tight end 24. And I almost like didn't even want to discuss this player because it's like who's drafting at tight end 24 that they, that they care about it. Yeah, I know, because you're a freaking sicko. It's like I'm in a two tight end league that has 20 players on the starting lineup.
- [26:28]
B
The argument I'm going to make though is that he says that this guy shouldn't be drafted. And I'm saying you could draft this guy as a tight end one if.
- [26:36]
A
You want your team to not be that great. So let's talk about it because you have him at tight end 13. Mike Gasicki, tight end for the Cincinnati.
- [26:43]
B
Bengals I think your Dolphins bias might be bleeding in here a little bit. No worse years of Micah and haven't seen the player that he has since developed.
- [26:52]
A
My, my, my gritty bias of watching him do that. Like he just, he said he set back white people like another 20 years in terms of dancing.
- [27:00]
B
He did. Yeah, it was, it was brutal. But at the end of the day, man like Micah Sicki, I don't think people realize how he kind of came on in the second half of last season. He essentially became their full time slot receiver. He took, he had a higher slot rate than any other receiver on the team last year. And early in the year they, they tried out Andre Josevash in that role. They gave Jermaine Burton some slot snaps as well. But when it came to them being kind of painted up against a corner late in the season and they really needed to win games, they just deferred to Micasicki. And if you look over the second half of the season, he was pacing for 104 targets, which is unbelievable. And not too much has changed in Cincinnati. Like this is still a very, very defense. Well, I mean it did come on the back of a T. Higgins injury. So there's the, the contingent upside here, of course. So that's the thing. Like if you're drafting Micah Sicki, you're getting the guy who's the third pass catcher on a very good offense. Best case scenario is that if Jamar Chase or T. Higgins has to miss any time, then you're looking at Micah Sicki as a top five option in your weekly lineup. So this guy is just being left for dead right now in drafts. Like you said, his ADP right now, tight end 24 means that he's going Undrafted in most rounds, but when I'm looking at the tight end landscape this year, we've talked about this a ton. Like we want to. We're okay paying up for Bowers and McBride if they slide a little bit past ADB, I'm aggressively targeting George Kittle near or before his ADP. But then there is this kind of Dead Zone with T.J. hawkinson and Sam Laporta and Travis Kelsey and Mark Andrews that I'm not crazy about paying up for in the middle rounds. So if I get past George Kittle, my favorite thing to do is just wait until the later rounds and double tap tight ends. And if I could walk away with Tucker Kraft and Mike Kasicki, I'm feeling pretty darn good about that tight end room right there. And you can get these guys in the final rounds of your draft. So Kasicki, we know the contingent upside is there, but I think if you pair him with another guy, whether it be more of a veteran who's going to give you a high floor like a Hunter Henry or a Tucker Kraft, a young guy with a high ceiling, I think Kasicki can kind of work with either of those tight ends and you can either stumble into a guy that becomes a weekly starter or you can stream on a week to week matchup. But Micah Sicki right now just being completely forgotten in drafts, which is crazy to me after seeing what he did over the second half of last season.
- [29:14]
A
Yeah, I'm, I'm trying not to get too like sucked into what a player does the back half of a season. Especially if it doesn't, if it doesn't feel like it's sustainable. Like if the Bengals have Mike Gasicki as one of their like top two target earners in the team, something has gone horribly wrong. Right. And that's sort of like what happened over that back half of the season. I, I do like him better than consensus adp. If I'm looking right now, I've got him at tight end 19 and compared to tight end 24 ADP, it's the Titan 13. It's like I'm looking at other guys. For example, in that same range I have Dalton Kincaid, I've got Jake Ferguson, Colson Loveland, Tyler Warren, Kyle Pitts, all guys that I would take over. Mike Gasecki in that. I'm sure you have Kaseki over a lot of those guys.
- [29:57]
B
Yeah, I've got Kaseki ahead of Colson, Loveland, Zach Ertz, Dallas Goddard, Hunter Henry.
- [30:02]
A
Kyle, Zach Hurts in the shadow realm, like He's I don't want any pieces.
- [30:06]
B
Yeah. And I mean Kyle Pitts, Brenton Strange, Chiga conquo so for me, like I've got Kasicki in the same tier that I have, it's a very tiny tier, but it's Mike Kosiki and Jake Ferguson, two guys that I think are just being overlooked in drafts right now. And even you, you know, having him at tight at 19, you're taking a similar stance to me without even maybe realizing it. But you're saying that he should still go drafted at the end of your fantasy drafts and tight end 24 dictates that he shouldn't go drafted at the end of fantasy drafts.
- [30:33]
A
No, should not go drafted.
- [30:35]
B
Fear. In a 12 team league, if half of the teams are doing two tight end builds, that means that you're advocating for Micasicki to get drafted.
- [30:42]
A
I don't advocate for two tight end builds. That's why don't put words in my mouth. Dave Kluge.
- [30:47]
B
So my thing is, I think if you don't draft Trey McBride, Brock Bowers or George Kittle, I think if you take any other tight end, you need to add a second tight end this year. You look at that entire range of tight ends from tight end 4 to tight end 24, it is so flat in there that I think if you're not walking away with one of the blue chip tight ends, I mean, like maybe if you can talk yourself into Travis Kelce, Mark Andrews, TJ Hawkinson, I'm not going to push back too hard there, but I think that it just makes sense this year if you don't get one of the top three guys to just spend your last pick in your fantasy draft on a backup tight end and increase your chances of hitting on this year's league winner, which could be Micasicki.
- [31:28]
A
God. Dumber words have never been spoken. Dave. Seven players Dave Kluge is wrong about compared to cdp.
- [31:40]
B
Make me cry. Yeah, and you're gonna free I will send you a picture of tears rolling down my face along.
- [31:45]
A
That's weird. Don't do that.
- [31:46]
B
Football guys subscription.
- [31:48]
A
There we go.
- [31:49]
B
Give me your worst. Give me your worst.
- [31:50]
A
There we go. I'll send you a. A trophy of some sort because it'll just make my day. Well, there it is. Seven players. Dave Kluge is absolutely wrong about that. He likes or dislikes more or less than consensus adp. He's basically saying all of you watching are wrong and he's right. So, you know, let us know in the comments down below what you guys think. Don't worry, we're gonna do this episode for me as well so you can get your revenge, Dave. And as always, just want to thank everybody for watching or listening all the way through. For myself, for Dave. We'll see you next time. Adios. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.
- [32:45]
B
It doesn't have to be.
- [32:46]
A
Let me point something out.
- [32:47]
B
You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working.
- [32:53]
A
Out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion.
- [32:58]
B
And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention?
- [33:01]
A
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- [33:03]
B
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A
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- [33:14]
B
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