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How Pat Fitzmaurice Makes the Best Trades in Fantasy Football | The Pretend GM Podcast
01:07:16
"Don't Ruin Your Reputation!" On this episode of The Pretend GM Podcast, I was joined by Pat Fitzmaurice to discuss the best way to make trades, how analytics shape his rankings every year, and why he loves to build his team around big atheltic wide...
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- [00:00]
A
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- [00:29]
B
Come up with trade proposals that do help both teams. Just don't let yourself be consumed by the failures. You better believe I'm going to hit the wide receiver position hard. I'll cut corners at running back. Almost never draft more than one running back in the first four rounds if I have to start three receivers every week.
- [00:45]
A
On today's episode of the Pretend gm, I spoke with Pat Fitzmaurice of Fantasy Pros. We talked about how analytics shape his approach to creating rankings, the best way to make trades in fantasy and dynasty leagues, and why he loves building his team teams around play making wide receivers over running backs just like you and I. Pat Fitz Morris is a pretend gm. Sorry, I was like I was getting ready to turn this on and I sat down and I go oh my God, where's my water cup? Cuz I can't survive even like a five minute pod without having some water near me. I'm a constant cougher. It's, it's my cross to pair but yeah man, how are you doing?
- [01:24]
B
Yeah, good, no worries. I was hustling trying to get my kids out the door for their summer camp jobs. So that was, I was in here last minute so I'm glad I was not too late.
- [01:36]
A
No, you're good. How's that been man? Like I know that's such a transition. I don't, I don't have kids but I have my little brother and little sister in law. They're 9 and 13 and having them around the house all summer was interesting. It was, it was a big mental hurdle to overcome. And then all of a sudden the mom's like actually we're gonna take you guys to summer camp. And I was like oh thank God.
- [02:08]
B
Mine are a little less so mine are now 19 and 18. One is about to start college and, and one is going to be a sophomore in college. So yeah, I mean we've Kind of been transitioning toward empty nestom for a while now. And it's like the, the one who was home last year was our son who's like, you know, always out doing things with his friends. And if we get a few grunts out of him, it's a lot of communication. So it's not going to be that much of a shock to the system when he's gone. But. Yeah, no.
- [02:38]
A
It's a complicated feeling though, right? Like, it's because, like, in a way you're so happy for them. They're going off doing. I mean, once again, I'm talking like. I know, but I presume you're just so happy, you're so proud and then just like, oh, they're gone though.
- [02:52]
B
Yeah, I know it's. It will be an adjustment, but it just like, it does feel like it's just kind of a natural transition and it just seems like now is the time, you know?
- [03:01]
A
Yeah.
- [03:02]
B
So it's. Yeah. It's not as weird as. I know some parents are probably traumatized by it, but, you know, we'll just have to devote extra attention to our dog, I guess.
- [03:12]
A
That's. That's never a bad thing. We have two of our own and then another two that are here with us with the, the in laws. So it's. It's. Yeah, man. It's five people. It's four dogs. It's a busy house. Yeah. More dogs. Never a bad thing.
- [03:26]
B
Yeah. My, my wife volunteers at a local shelter too, so I feel like once our son is gone, it's like only a matter of time before we have a son for another. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's inevitable.
- [03:37]
A
Yeah. I was about to say that's something wife and I had, had talked about and she was like, well, you know, I really want another dog. And I was like, no, I want to. I want a child. Like, I want a human. Before we get another dog, let's. Let's focus on that first. So that'll be a. That'll be the next thing, but nice, man. I'm so happy that you joined me here today. Like, this is something that I wanted to do that's a little bit different. You're actually. It's funny. I come to think of it, you were the first guest I ever had on Pretend GM when I did this the first time around.
- [04:08]
B
That is awesome.
- [04:09]
A
And it is such a cool full circle moment to have you back on again. And I just, honestly, I can't appreciate you enough, man, for, for coming on and doing this. I know It's a, it's a slow season, but it's the calm before the storm.
- [04:23]
B
Yeah. Flattered that you would ask Alfredo, and always love talking to you, man. You're a great dude and just happy to be here with you. Thank you, man.
- [04:31]
A
Thank you. So, you know, like, the idea for this is just to do something a little bit different, right? Like instead of, hey, Pat, who are your sleepers for this year? Right. Like, you do that every week, all the time. What I want to do is try to give people something that one is going to make us all think. Like, selfishly, I want to become a better fantasy analyst. So what better way to do that than to talk to every single smart mind in this industry? But I also think the people watching or listening, they can pick up something and do this in an evergreen way. That someone comes across this interview three years from now, they're like, that still holds true. And I have something that's not outdated by, you know, a sleeper or a breakout or something like that. So, man, I think the first thing to always jump off with is obviously like, let's just first of all, if people don't know, like Pat Fitz Morris is one of the savviest rankers in the industry, you're one of the best minds in the industry and it's, it's one of the nicest people. And I, I think there's so much more to the story. So how did you get started here? I know you're at fantasy pros. You've been there for a while. When was that moment where you go, oh, hey, I'm actually kind of good at this and I could do it in exchange for US Currency and like make a job out of this.
- [05:43]
B
Yeah. Flattering. First of all, I don't know if I'm one of the shots, but I appreciate being categorized that way and you know, the rankings. Okay, I've been, been a little slippy there the last year, year or two. So hopefully I can get back up near the top in, in 2025. So, yeah, doing it professionally, earning money, writing about fantasy football. So I, I worked as an editor at Pro Football Weekly way back in the late 90s, but fantasy football was only a small part of that job. We were more of a weekly football news magazine and we devoted a small amount of space to fantasy. We had like our preseason magazine that, that was big, but really in the issues during the season, I mean, we barely devoted more space to fantasy than we did to the Canadian Football League, so. But I, I left Pro Football Weekly After a few years I, I love the magazine, I love the work. I really liked all my co workers. It was pretty much a dream job except for the money which just was not enough to live on. So I had to leave. And I did leave on good terms though. And one of the high ranking editors there asked me if I might consider doing some freelance fantasy football writing for Pro Football Weekly's website. And I said yes. Like I love fantasy football. I was confident about the quality of my writing and that little side hustle didn't necessarily make me think I could ever make fantasy football a full time job. But, well, I was technically doing it professionally and earning some money. And then honestly Alfredo, I don't know if I ever really thought I could do fantasy football full time until fantasy pros offered me the job I have now. Like it had been a side gig for just so long. I'd had a couple of little nibbles and a couple of interviews, but nothing full time had materialized. And I was pretty content with the editor's job I had in the world of journalism. So really I was never sure that I could make a living in fantasy until the moment I started actually making a living in fantasy.
- [07:46]
A
Wow, that's like, that's insane to me because like I, I remember me starting out four years ago and being like, that's Pat Fitz Morris. And it's so, it's so interesting to see like that's how people can look at you, but then you can look at yourself in a totally different light. And I, I think that's, to me that's super interesting because it kind of lifts that veil of the gap between maybe the audience member that plays versus the person who is, you know, constantly deemed the expert or the, the top tier analyst, things like that. It's just we kind of all have those same thoughts. The thought processes were just like, ah, I don't really know if I'm good enough to do that or if I could be doing that. But hey, like it turns out you actually can. And I know you had a life before, you know, fantasy football and before doing this full time with fantasy pros and what, maybe what's a skill set or something from your background that people don't know that shapes the way that you look at the game. Because I think everyone has a different viewpoint and all of us are sort of built in this different way of like life experiences or even past job experiences that make us look at this game a different way.
- [08:55]
B
Yeah, so maybe I guess my, the allure of looking at sports in kind of an analytical way. Happened pretty early on. So I'm, you know, you said something from your background. I'm an only child and I've always loved sports. Oh, okay, perfect. We're spoilers. People think we're weird. We're not. We're totally normal humans mostly.
- [09:18]
A
Yeah. To the public eye.
- [09:20]
B
Exactly. So, yeah, only child who always loved sports and always loved games. And I had friends to play sports and play games with when I was a kid, but there were times when I'd be at home with no one around to play a game with. And when I was like, I know, maybe 9 or 10 years old, I discovered this board game called Stratomatic Baseball. And they have stratomatic games for every sport, like basketball, football, hockey.
- [09:46]
A
Okay.
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B
And these games are fantastic. Like, every player is represented by a card that has this range of results on it, and you roll dice to see what results you get. And the games do a pretty realistic job of. Of representing every player's strengths and weaknesses.
- [10:00]
A
I've seen this before. I've seen this with like, I think they did like another version of it where they kind of called it like MLB the Show, but it was before the video game and it was like a play a trading card type deal. Same thing.
- [10:12]
B
Yeah, there have been all. There have been other games, like sports simulation games like this. And I know Chris Raybon, who's one of the analysts I really respect in Fantasy. Raybon and I have talked about this. Like, Raybon was a big stratomatic guy when he was a kid too. And not sure if Raybon was an only child or not, but yeah, I mean, I could play stratomatic solitaire back in the day when I was a kid. Managed both teams myself. But then of course, I got a bunch of my buddies hooked on these games and, you know, stratumatic basketball, football, and we would organize leagues and spend a zillion hours playing against each other and making trades. So I guess I was. That was a very early introduction to managing fake sports teams and being a fake gm. So it goes way back.
- [10:58]
A
You know what? Same though. Same. I'm not going to lie. Like, when you're only child, like, I grew up, only child, single mom, she had to work a lot. And so we were just talking about the summers. There was a. There was that weird gap where I was too old to go to summer camp, but too young to drive anywhere and do anything. So you've got like three years there where you're just sitting around figuring out what can I do with my life. And this was like the video game boom. And I was, you know, playing a lot of like Madden and college football and all these other things. And you just, you, you, you find things to pass the time and, and I feel like anyone who had that interest in sports tells themselves I could run a team. I could, I could be a gm, I could, I could, you know, be a coach, something like that. You, you, you tell yourself that and, and yeah, like it just kind of ends up being that thing that you, you either you lean into it like we did, and you try to follow that as a, as a passion, or you just let it be the fun sort of hobby, the thing that's on the side that just compartmentalizes.
- [11:57]
B
Yes. And I know my, my son is kind of walking that same path and by the way, totally very similar background, single mom. So yeah, just a lot of spare time on your hands and. But you know, I think my son is kind of walking the same path. Like sports nuts just got the new college football game and of course he's already deep into a franchise mode, like 24 hours after getting the game. And. Yeah, so it's just, I think you find different things to fill it. But I was like, I was a kid back before the video games, the sports video games started to get really good. So for me it was a cards and dice game.
- [12:30]
A
Okay. Okay. You know, it's like you're still, you're still like doing the highest level of gaming in this because I, I did my research. You know, I went and checked out all the Pat Fitzmaurice interviews prior to this. And is this true that you were in a 16 team fantasy league that does a 24 round draft, no waivers and it's just all trading? Is this true? If not, it's going to derail the whole show?
- [12:58]
B
Yeah. I'm not just in this league, Alfred. I'm the commissioner of this league. And this has been going since the 1990s. Yeah. And it's. We pretty much. Basically when I decided to start this league, I wanted to make things really easy on myself as commissioner because this was before like the ubiquitous league hosting websites. So I didn't want to deal with like handling waivers for 16 teams. And so I'm like, well, if we just have a draft with deep enough player penetration, no one's going to need to pick players up. There's going to be no one to pick up. Which is kind of the case with 16 teams and 24 rounds. And we do have kickers, but no defenses. So like, there are only a handful of players who fall through the cracks every year and wind up being fantasy relevant at all. Yeah, and trading in this league is actually pretty easy. And there's a lot of it because people get hit with injuries or underperformance and suddenly they are woefully shorthanded at one position and they become very motivated to patch these gaping holes on their roster. So the trades almost make themselves in that league.
- [14:06]
A
But okay, yeah, that's because that's one of the things I wanted to ask about this league because I'm. I think everyone can probably agree you get better. The more often you do something you know you can get better at, it becomes more comfortable. Trading is one of those things that I think a lot of people like to do in their leagues. They love the idea of it. And I think everyone believes they are a very good trader. Everyone believes that they have the best negotiating skills or the best, you know, deals to offer. Like, hey, man, this is going to really help both of us. What's the thing that you've learned with being in a league that is trading so often, even though it's a bit easier, I mean, there's still some, some tact that has to go to it. So what sort of strategy have you, you leaned into. You don't have to give away too many secrets. But you know, what's something you've maybe.
- [14:50]
B
Learned to actually try to come up with trade proposals that do really help both teams. Because, and I know, Alfredo, you play in a bunch of leagues and encounter the same sort of frustration with like, how, how terrible most offers are that you get and how lopsided they are. And you know, you, you look at these offers and you're like, I do this for a living. You really think I'm gonna like, take this? And then like, I don't feel like it's my job to go back to that person and like try to hammer something out that's equitable. You know, when they come in with just an absurd trade, I just, you know, and, and some people might be mad at me about this and I just, I hate haggling. I really do. And if, if you don't come in, in the ballpark, like, I'm just pretty much not even going to put in any time going back and forth with you. So, you know, I like to craft haggle free proposals and I really do try to put myself in the other person's shoes. And when I'm putting together proposals, think about whether I would accept a trade offer. If I were the other person and like, I typically don't send out an offer until the answer to that question is yes. And, you know, then if they end up rejecting the trade offer and asking for more, I, I usually just politely break off the negotiation because I feel like I came in with a fair offer. Now if they want to retool it a little bit and it's still pretty balanced and, you know, they might not be able. A four player deal, they might not be able to get rid of the second player I asked for for a certain reason. Okay, we can rework it a little bit. But yeah, that's kind of my thing. Just the, the haggle, free trade proposals and, you know, just not trying to lowball people right from the start.
- [16:42]
A
See, I feel like that, and I'm the same way, by the way, is I don't want to have to go back and forth and someone's like, all right, throw in an extra third. I'm like, really? What are we doing? Like, why, why, why are we doing this? I, I don't want to spend a lot of time doing it. Like, even if I've had done stuff in business, I'm just like, hey, man, like, this is, let's just be really front and center about this. I'd love to get all this done today. Same thing with fantasy trades. And I think what it does too is I think most people might say, oh, well, you might leave something on the table. You're not getting all the value that you want, but what you're doing is you're actually creating more value for yourself in the future because now you have an established relationship with these people. There's a level of trust. Like whoever you're. You're trading with in your league, I mean, you're, you've been in this league for years and years and years. You, you know, screw over one person or make it difficult to trade with. That's one person that you've now removed from the equation to trade with in the future. Is that, is that typically how you end up seeing it?
- [17:32]
B
Absolutely. Reputation matters. And, you know, we play in these leagues with other analysts together. And you know, when you get in leagues with certain people and like, you have these easy, no haggle, they come in with a fair trade, you make a fair trade, right? Like, it's pretty easy. And, you know, I've got some people who are like favorite trading partners because they're really easy to deal with. And they are also interested in fair exchanges that help both sides. Like my buddy Scott Pinowski of Yahoo. Jamie Eisenberg of cbs. Like, these have been really easy people to deal with because they seem to have the same philosophical approach to making trades.
- [18:12]
A
Future guests that I absolutely need to have on this show. Jamie's coming on, I think like a week from now. And Scott, I gotta schedule him as well. Those guys are awesome.
- [18:19]
B
Yeah, absolutely awesome. Great dudes.
- [18:22]
A
Yeah. I look at it almost like it's going to your favorite grocery store. It's just wherever it's going to be most convenient to get all the things you need and get out. Like that's kind of how you look at doing those trades is, let's just make this the easiest process for everyone. You may not always get the best, but it's going to be an easier process. I think that's valuable as well.
- [18:39]
B
Exactly.
- [18:41]
A
So I love asking everybody this question one because it helps me in doing all my strategy and everything for the YouTube side. But if you had to choose some sort of short quote, a statement, a strategy, something like this for the thumbnail of this episode, let's call it maybe your golden rule of fantasy football, what would that be?
- [19:04]
B
Man, I think I, I wish I had something really clever here for this, but. All right, so it would just be something pretty straightforward and a little corny like do your best and let the chips fall where they may. Like. Everyone consuming this podcast knows that fantasy football can be a cruel game. Like injuries, losses by a few decimal points, opponents with bad teams saving their best week of the season for your team. Bad luck can take all these, these different forms and of course we're going to be wrong about a bunch of things. I mean, all you can do is try to optimize your choices and try to be right more often than you're wrong. Just don't let yourself be consumed by the failures. You know, you have a 1 in 12 chance to win a 12 team league and if you're smart, you can whittle down those odds to maybe, you know, six to one, seven to one if, if you're a terrific manager. You know, I love that.
- [19:58]
A
I love like where, where you got to with that because don't let yourself get consumed by the failures. Because we've seen that so often with someone. They start out their fantasy league 0 and 5 and they're like, well, I'm cooked. I'm, I'm gonna start to trade away all my players. Just come. It's a free for all. It's, it's a fire sale. And a lot of these teams too. Sometimes we'll get, we'll get comments or emails like, hey, you guys helped me turn my team around. Started off terrible, now I made the playoffs and things are looking up.
- [20:27]
B
That's the best feeling in the world when, you know, you hear from someone who's been, you know, a subscriber or someone who's been like, following some of your advice, watching your podcasts and, or watching your shows and they say that they started, you know, 04, 0 and 5 and now they're going to make the playoffs and feeling good about their title chances. That's always great. But yeah, man, winning titles is hard. So, you know, don't beat yourself up for, for not winning all those trophies and championship belts.
- [20:57]
A
I feel like that's something that the, that the games that we played also taught us that you're going to lose or make mistakes so many times you always go right back to that game. Right? Like you always go and try to win it again. That's. It should be the same thing with fantasy football.
- [21:09]
B
Yes.
- [21:10]
A
And what's, what kind of. I, I would say, I don't want to say it makes it tough, but what makes this space sometimes so impersonal is that audiences, often times they want answers. Just tell me who to draft, man. Who do you have ranked higher? Who should I start? And they typically want the destination, not the journey. They want the answer, not the explanation. How do you, as someone who does all the background work, like, how do you balance giving people what they want versus what they need, which is that kind of, that understanding of why you would start XYZ Player? Because I've seen it happen so many times where you give an answer and that person, maybe you're wrong, right? That person will come back and be so upset and then try to explain yourself. It never quite goes the way you want. So how do you try to balance that, the want versus need.
- [22:02]
B
First of all, Alfredo, this question is a good reminder to enjoy the next month and a half or so before I start getting inundated with 50 questions a day on, on Twitter and our discord. So, yeah, I usually just do answer whatever question people ask me. But whether it's a lineup question or a trade question or waiver question, like, I'll always explain my reasoning for the advice. Like I don't just give them a name. So I'm, I'm actually trying to, you know, as quickly as possible walk them through my decision making process. And if there's something in that process that makes sense to them and seems like something they might want to consider in future decisions. Great.
- [22:43]
A
Now I know that like when we try to explain things, sometimes there are terms that we'll use or reasonings that we had that we've held onto or something. And oftentimes I'll see whether it's industry or even in like home leagues, you know, the buddies all just like going back and forth with each other like why a certain player is better. We see that concepts in fantasy football or even a data point, right, Like a certain stat will get misused or misunderstood or even just relied on the wrong way or relied on too much. Have you found that there's something in your time in fantasy football? You're like, man, people just rely on this or they don't understand it quite as much as as they they think they do.
- [23:28]
B
I never underestimate our audience. Like our, our followers and listeners and readers. They're. They're pretty sharp. There, There is one thing that comes to mind though, as far as maybe something people don't consider deeply enough in a lot of cases, like the most important league setting is the number of wide receivers you're required to start. It seems like this. Okay, yeah, it, it seems to me like it's pretty close to an even split between two receiver leagues and three receiver leagues and Alfredo over the next especially beginning in draft season in August when people are asking me questions like I will have to come back to them so many times with how many receivers do you have to start before I can give the advice I want to give them? And like, it's just such an important distinction because it really changes your approach. And I think there are a lot of people who don't really alter their approach, whether it's a two receiver or a three receiver league. My position is that in a league where you only need to start two receivers, you have more tactical flexibility. But I would maybe emphasize the running back position a little more than the wide receiver position just because there's a smaller pool of usable players at running back. But in a league where you need to start three receivers, I am massively emphasizing wide receiver over running back in those leagues. If your lineup is one qb, two running backs, three receivers, one tight end and a flex, plus maybe a defense and a kicker. Wide receivers are taking up three of your eight lineup spots, excluding kicker and defense, that's 37 and a half percent of your lineup spots. And if you put a wide receiver in the flex spot now four of those eight lineup spots are occupied by receivers, half excluding defenses and kickers. Of course, that makes wide receiver the most important position by far in those leagues. And, and, you know, you better believe I'm going to hit the wide receiver position hard in the early rounds of drafts. In leagues where I have to start three receivers, like, I'll. I'll cut corners at running back. It's either going to be hero RB or zero rb. I'll almost never draft more than one running back in the first four rounds if I have to start three receivers every week.
- [25:40]
A
So. Okay, that's. I. That's a beautiful way to put that because that leads me to the next question here, is that do you. Do you find yourself ever having a bias towards a certain position or certain type of player? I know that obviously that's going to depend on the format of the league, scoring, the roster settings, all that stuff. But, you know, like, I had Jake Seeley on and he's just like, yeah, I obviously have a bias towards running quarterbacks. Like, that's always going to be the thing. You know, I think we all have some sort of bias. Even if it's smaller, we don't see it yet. Have you found that maybe you have one when. When analyzing football?
- [26:15]
B
Definitely the wide receiver over running back thing and that I just mentioned because I. The majority of my leagues are three wide receiver, especially all the industry leagues are. So I do tend to favor the. The receivers over the running backs. I'm admittedly kind of a sizeist at wide receiver. Alfredo. I. I do like the bigger guys, and I tend not to fall for the smaller guys. Rondale Moore was a notable exception. I. I loved Rondale when he came out of Purdue, but that one kind of bit me in the butt.
- [26:45]
A
It's like Tank Dell, not for you, but DK Metcalf. We're all in.
- [26:48]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [26:49]
A
Okay.
- [26:50]
B
Yeah. DK and I share a birthday too, so of course, I got to be a big guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're just physically hard to tell us apart.
- [27:02]
A
I, like, I don't.
- [27:03]
B
Yeah, I just don't really see the appeal of the. The Josh Downs types. And I, I know everyone loves Josh Downs. Like, he's a really good slot receiver but doesn't score many touchdowns. And Tyler Warren is going to be a problem for him. All right. I know we're not getting into the specific specifics of players. I'm also sort of an ageist at running back, not just in Dynasty, but in Redraft. Like, I was just deciding between Derrick Henry and Bucky Irving in the second round of the Scott Fishbowl, and I think most people would probably take Derek Henry there, I took Bucky. You know, it was just kind of about age, kind of about pass catching potential. But I tend to fall hard for the rookie running backs and second year guys.
- [27:43]
A
Okay, so young running backs, big wide receivers. This is, this is the, this is where Pat Fitz Morris lives. If, if you were, let's say you have one of these players in front of you, right? But it's just like very. You're sitting in a draft, you're looking at your starting lineup or waiver wire, something like that, and you're saying, this guy fits what I really like. But this really goes against the grain. It really goes against consensus. The app, the. All the other rankers in the industry, my league, everyone else is doing something different. How do you handle going against the grain like that, going against consensus? And this might be a little more challenging. Do you remember a specific time that it paid off for you?
- [28:26]
B
Honestly, Alfredo, I, I don't have any trouble going against consensus. I mean, I'm definitely swayed on some things. I, I listen to a lot of fantasy podcasts and read other people's work, and I'm certainly convinced by compelling arguments that, that other analysts make. But I am willing to go out on a limb if I believe in a player for whatever reason or don't believe in a player that everyone else likes. Like Josh Downs, I guess an example, I mean, just recency bias here. But like, I was, I was pretty well above the consensus ranking on Brock Bowers last year and, and that paid off. And it's funny, there was a, there's a guy I used to work with in my last job and, you know, really good guy, and he, we always talked baseball at work for like hours. He's a huge baseball guy, casual football fan. Like, he grew up in New England, so he was a, a Patriots guy, but like, he never played fan football. Yeah, exactly. So he like shot me a text last year, last summer, and he's like, hey, I'm, I'm finally breaking down. I'm joining a fantasy football league. And like, I'm like, okay, what's the best email for you? And I like send him this long email, just walking him through, like strategy and all this and like laying it out for him, because this guy's a, was a very good friend, great guy. And one of the things I told him very specifically, like, because he's never played fantasy football before, I didn't want to set up too many conditionals. I, it was more like, do this, don't do this, do this. I told him to Wait for nine tight ends to be drafted and then get Brock Bowers with his next pick. And, you know, it was like a month and a half into the season. He, like texted me. He's like, dude, that Bowers advice was unbelievable. Like, are you a warlock or something? Like, how did you know he was gonna be that good? I'm just like, I, I had a feeling, I'd watched him in college. Like, I had a feeling this cat was different. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's one example. But, you know, of course there are times when I'm supremely confident about a player like that and, you know, we get a Rondell Moore type result.
- [30:34]
A
You mentioned, like, a guy like Brock Bowers. You say, I watched him in college. Right. I know that there's, I wouldn't say there's debates, but I think it used to be a little more spirited between, you know, data bros and film bros and not everyone's a bro. But I'm just saying, like, there are people who have different approaches, approaches to this. Right. Like, some people just say, like, I just, I just watched them and they're good. Or I looked at the numbers and the numbers say, this is a good player. Do you find that you have a certain approach with that, like a more analytical, or do you try to balance.
- [31:02]
B
Everything as best as possible, try to mix it? I think, I mean, they're just. Sometimes when I watch guys, I'm like, okay, I don't, I don't care if the analytics don't really love this guy. Like, I think this guy's fantastic. And you know, other times when you just sort of find things where analytically maybe they compel you to take a second look at a guy you had not, you know, seen a lot from or really appreciated. So it is kind of a balance, I think, between stats and film, analytics and film.
- [31:34]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it has to be right. Like, this is the game needs context. I think it's a little bit more. Obviously it's just a fun, simple game that we play a game about a game. But I do think that if we're doing the analysis, we're taking it, I guess, as serious as we should for our jobs.
- [31:49]
B
Right.
- [31:50]
A
That you need to have context to these things. There needs to be more than just like, by the way, this data point and this spreadsheet said, this is the guy you got to draft in round two.
- [31:57]
B
Yeah, that's it. And one of my favorite things about this job, Alfredo, is like the two week period, you know, before the pre draft process really starts to ramp up where, like, I watch, like, I watch some college football. You know, I'm. I'm not one of these people who never watches college football, but I'm also, you know, like, I'm pretty much busy all day Sunday with work as. As my wife knows. So, like, I also can't take all day Saturday watching football and never spending any time with my wife and kids. So, you know, I, I like the two weeks when I can really dig in to players and kind of go back and, and watch some of their tape and their highlights and read up on them and, you know, and there are some guys I'm obviously familiar with, guys from Alabama, Georgia, the major Big Ten schools, because I'm a Wisconsin guy, but, like, digging into someone like RJ Harvey, who I didn't get to see a lot of in College, or Alec IO Manor from Stanford, who, you know, two years ago lit up Travis Hunter for almost 300 yards in a game against Colorado. Like, it's fun to, you know, sort of discover these guys and figure out how they might succeed or how they might not succeed in the NFL.
- [33:14]
A
Is that so? You mentioned those two weeks before, and I'm totally going off script here. You mentioned those two weeks before the, the fantasy football draft. You're also a dynasty guy. So, like, what approach do you take when you're looking at these rookies coming out of college because they have to make this transition, this leap to the NFL? It's. It's one thing to, like, watch film, but how do you. How do you make these judgment calls and like, well, that guy's good. I think this skill set translates to the next level.
- [33:40]
B
Yeah, that's. That is the challenge. And I try to do that, and sometimes I'm more successful than others. Like, I think a great example this year is Matthew golden because he is, like, his production profile from college, not very good like he was. Even after Tank Dell left the University of Houston, Matthew golden was like the. The third leading receiver in his last year there before transferring to Texas. And then he goes to Texas and he had a really great season, but it was more like half a season. And a lot of that was when Isaiah Bond was hurt. And now what he did against, like, some really good defenses, like, you know, Matthew golden lit up Georgia last year. Really impressive. And the film guys love him. And I know that, like, Daniel Jeremiah and Dan Brugler and Mel Kuiper Jr. All had golden as a top 15 overall prospect in last year's draft. Like, they thought he would be Great in the pros, but like the guys in our business who really, who do models, like statistical models. People like, you know, J.J. zachary and Scott Barrett and Dwayne McFarland. Like, they thought Golden's production profile was just checkered with red flags. Like the takeaway from them was that there are not many players with his production profile who have been drafted in the first round who have ever hit. Like you are kind of betting against the odds with him. So very different stories on Matthew golden from a film perspective and from an analytical perspective. And we're going to find out pretty soon which was more important in this case.
- [35:23]
A
I like that you just like weaved in a little bit of your, your personal love because I know you're, you're a Packers fan.
- [35:29]
B
I am deep down.
- [35:30]
A
Right, man. Yeah. Matthew Golden, I think that's gonna be a fun one. It's gonna be interesting case study because I, I remember watching the film and thinking, you know, this might sound really stupid a year from now if he has a fantastic rookie season. But I remember watching the film being like, solid, he's solid. Like it didn't blow me away with what he could do. I thought probably like a second round guy. So it didn't surprised me that he went in the back end of the first. Going to the packers was super surprising because they never do this. But he's, he's one of these guys that's in this sort of. I hate to like steal the term, but this ambiguous receiver situation, is that something that you tend to look at in value? Because that's something that I, I think I've been finding myself fallen into a bit more, not to get like too player specific, but with running backs, receivers, when there's this sort of ambiguous situation, that's where you can find a lot of value in fantasy drafts.
- [36:23]
B
Yes. Especially at running back. Alfredo couldn't agree more. Like lean into the ambiguous situations. I know you know the aforementioned JJ Zacharison is big on that. Like a lot of people look at that and you know, their first reaction is messy. Like I, I don't want anyone from this Jacksonville backfield with all these guys in the RB30 range for ADP. But like, if you get rights, get that situation right, you stand to make a, a big profit on a middle round pick. And if you get it wrong, it's not that hard to move off a middle round pick and just hit waivers.
- [37:01]
A
Yeah, I mean that was Bucky Irving last year. For all the people that, you know, were drafting him. There was a lot of ambiguity Uncertainty.
- [37:09]
B
Yeah.
- [37:09]
A
That was, what a time to be alive.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah. And I, Bucky was one of those guys who, like, I total whiff for me because I just rejected a guy that small running a slow 40 time. I'm like, not, not interested. Even though I should have learned my lesson from Kyron Williams earlier on that and didn't draft Bucky anywhere and lucky enough to pick him up in one league, and he helped propel me to a home league championship. Like, he was fantastic. And I think I'm done dismissing small running backs for slow 40 times.
- [37:44]
A
Well, I think that's the big thing in fantasy football, whether you're playing, analyzing, whatever you're doing. It's like, I always would cringe when high school coaches would be like, we learn more from our losses than we do our wins. And it's like, yeah, man, I, I, I really want to win like that. That'd be cool too. And I think that what in this industry or with this game, you have to learn from the misses. You have to be able to, to fix the mistakes sometimes. It doesn't always continue with a tried and true method. But what's, how do you go back? What's your process figuring out why you missed on a player and how it shapes future decisions that you make in fantasy football.
- [38:22]
B
I don't know if it's much of a process, honestly, for me. I just, like, I usually know where I went wrong while a player's in the process of either knocking our socks off or, or laying a giant egg. Like, occasionally I'll revisit, you know, stats and, and try to dive into it analytically. But usually I know right away what I, I got wrong on someone.
- [38:46]
A
Yeah, I, I've noticed because, like, one of the things that people will do is they'll, for example, they'll take a look at the Bucky Irving instance that we talked about. And then all of a sudden there's Kyrie, Kyron Williams as well. And now all of a sudden it's, who is the next Kyron Williams? Who is the next Bucky Irving? And that sort of becomes a thing is like, well, let's just find the next small running back that had a bad 40 time that we think ends up in an ambiguous situation, and that's gotta be the guy, right? Like, we almost take these, these, this, like this fomo, this fear of missing out on another player like that. We turn it into gospel and like, try to follow that over and over and over.
- [39:23]
B
Very true.
- [39:25]
A
So, okay, we, we've talked a little bit about, like, Your past. We've talked a little bit about how you look at this game and I'm curious because there's so many tools that people are using. I know over at fantasy pros, you guys have a litany of tools. Same thing over at football guys where I work. There's a ton of tools and I think fantasy managers are getting savvier in the way that they play this game. They're, they have a lot more information available to them. But like I also mentioned before, people oftentimes just, they want answers, they want it fast and not necessarily have to watch an hour long video or read a long article like that. So AI has become one of these things that has become sort of a hot button issue. And I don't know that I've met many people, at least on this podcast I have. But outside of it, I've met so many people that are either you hate it or you love it. And there's so many questions surrounding how it's, it's used, when it should or should not be used. Have you found yourself using AI for anything? And do you see a use for it in fantasy football even for like the sides of, of consumers, audience members that are trying to, you know, make decisions?
- [40:35]
B
I don't use AI all that much because, you know, after all, I'm an old man and technology frightens me. So yeah, I, like, I definitely need to start using it more and I want to find ways to harness it for research. And I think that's probably like the most practical application even for, you know, people who don't work in fantasy and are just trying to be better at fantasy and do better with their teams. I don't think it should be used as a text generator for fantasy football content. I know, first of all, it's just boring. Like AI is not great at humor, nuance, wordplay, turning interesting phrases. Just that. And you know, the, they're these AI hallucinations. Like, I know I was playing around with something, man. I can't remember if it was last year, the year before, whenever for our golf contents at betting pros like we were. This was when I think the US Open was at the Los Angeles Country Club. And like we just played around with AI and had it spit out a course preview of this course. And like a lot of it was really good, but like, it got some, some things wrong about, you know, what a hole was like said, you know, hole number six is a dogleg right par five. No, it's a short par four. And just generally some other random things about the club itself and the club history. So you have to be careful with it because AI does like get these things wrong sometime and if you blindly follow it, you could be getting yourself in trouble. And you know, I, I have a past colleague who just got, I won't get into this, but got into some trouble for like over reliance on AI and something that turned out to be not true. So yeah, it's can be a helpful tool for sure, but it can you lead you down some potentially dangerous dark alleys.
- [42:43]
A
Man, I've seen it where I think I was reading an article and it was talking about how Sam Darnold's really gonna have an opportunity to break out for the Vikings this year. And I was just like, I had to go back and check the date and I was like, wow. No, no. And like that's the thing is like we've, we've been seeing AI get used in apps for a long time. Like, I know ESPN had the whole like IBM wa Hudson thing of like trying to predict, you know what, how many points your, your player is going to score. Like, it's been part of, part of fantasy football analysis for a while. I think now it's just also becoming a bit more prevalent and we're seeing it in written form and people using it for visuals and things like that. And I think my, my first initial reaction was like, guys, I'm begging you, just watch any movie ever. Like, just, it doesn't end well for us as humans.
- [43:32]
B
Exactly.
- [43:33]
A
But you know, like, I, I, I, I, I'm doing my best to try to warm up to it because it's, it seems like one of those things that's sort of just here to stay. But you know, we have to use it respectfully and sparingly. So I love that you gave that context to it. So as things are changing here in the space and, and with fantasy football in general, I had one of those aha moments a little while back where I'm sitting there with my friends and, and we're just, we're all, you know, from South Florida, we're all Miami Dolphins fans and we're talking about the season and what could happen and then planning a fantasy football draft and talking about players where they're ranked and stuff like that. And it was so refreshing just to sit back and talk with my friends in a casual manner about it who are not ingrained in spreadsheets and turning in rankings and turning in articles and recording shows that it made me think back to the almost pure way that I looked at fantasy football when I first started playing. So if we were to rewind back to Pat Fitzmaurice from years ago when you first started playing, how does that version of you look at the game versus how you look at it now? What has changed?
- [44:47]
B
Oh, man. So I won my very first league and, you know, so I thought I had great clarity and all. Just thought I was a fantasy God back then. At the time, I thought fantasy football was mostly about getting the running back position right rights, and maybe it was. This was the 1990s after all. Like, that has. Has definitely changed. So. And just, you know, ever since then, all. All the heartbreak I've experienced with some of my team. So, yeah, that's kind of viewed the way I look at things. But the game has evolved. I mean, we're. We've definitely seen, like, difference. I mean, now there's more passing, a lot more passing than there was back then. Running quarterbacks have become this valuable cheat code in fantasy. And I know we had Michael Vick back then, but, like, the importance of running quarterbacks has really been hammered home, and there are more of them these days. So, you know, now we're not seeing as much deep passing. And then last year, the pendulum kind of swung back toward the running game a little bit, with the running rates ticking up and like, the. The yards per carry ticking up. So things definitely change. And it's just trying to keep your finger on the pulse, I guess.
- [46:02]
A
Yeah, that's so important. And I was going to ask, is that something that you see where fantasy football almost. We're never going to have that chance to just kind of rest on our laurels and find the skeleton key that. That works for everything because it's. That's what this game feels like. I joked that it feels like the, like, you know, the pursuit of happiness, right? Like, you always have that pursuit, but you're never going to quite reach where. It's like, I know everything there is to know about fantasy football. It feels like one of those shows that you're watching where, like a severance or something like that, where you're waiting to find out the mystery at the end of it all. And then you do, and you're like, oh, but it's over, right? Like, fantasy football constantly has a new mystery and a new thing we're trying to solve every year.
- [46:42]
B
Plus, we have analysts coming up. You know, they're these little tactical edges. But then enough people write about and talk about these edges, and all of a sudden everyone knows the edge and the edge disappears and you have to look for the new edge.
- [46:56]
A
That's, that's so funny because it's, I think it's, it's, it's the edge. It's the stats that people will come up with because there's so many, I mean, just, just brilliant metrics that people use, and then all of a sudden everyone is using it. It's no longer that edge that you're talking about. And I think where you can see that the most is in something like ADP average draft position, where, you know, you'll, you'll see those tweets no one is talking about. So and so the biggest sleeper. And then over the next month and that person rises and everyone loves that player and it's like, well, they're not a sleeper anymore. They're not a value. But now everyone loves this player. And you don't really get the return on value that you were really hoping for because you, you're drafting an eighth round pick in the fourth round now because everyone is so high on him.
- [47:39]
B
Yeah, that is the fantasy football community this time of year. That's what's so fun about it. Like, like, oh, I didn't realize it was Jackson Smith and Jigba Day, where everyone is debating the outlook of Jackson Smith. You know, different players have their days, it seems like, where, you know, people kind of wage war and grab their swords and shield and take to Twitter and joust over the value of certain players. So it is the fun time of year. But it's like, I do feel like ADP has gotten a lot sharper over time, Alfredo. You know, and like, used to be you could find 20 or 30 ADPs that just didn't seem to make sense. And now it's like maybe, you know, a dozen.
- [48:19]
A
Have you found. Because this is interesting because I think ADP is sort of the straw that stirs the drink of fantasy football because it's all about finding value. So you're going shopping, basically, and it's just, what's, what's the best value, my best return on what I'm paying here. But it changes so often, and it changes with the public consensus. Right. And how people are drafting. And I've heard so many people say, like, why are you referencing adp, man? It's June. Like, that doesn't matter. And then you get to August, September, and I'm. What I want to know is, have you found value in tracking how ADP changes from, let's say, early June to like, late August over that summer period? Because, I mean, sometimes you might Love a player in June and this is a guy that you're like, well I'm going to be drafting a lot of him. And then you get to that moment of your draft and you're like, I'm not drafting him there.
- [49:10]
B
Right. So the, the ADPs are generally pretty stable from, you know, the, the time people first come up with rankings like right around the super bowl until about now. But we're going to get the volatility really soon. When training camp opens and we get this, you know, flood the floodgates of information just break down and, and we are inundated with, you know, news and notes every day, highlight reels, preseason results, obviously all these big noodle needle movers, injuries of course. And so then we're going to get some ADP volatility. And it's just a matter of trying to decide whether the new developments, whether it's an injury, maybe coach speak about where a player sits on the depth charts, all of these different things. Performance and training camp. Does the new data justify the ADP move or are we maybe better off sticking to our original position and kind of was the market right in the first place and now it's kind of being thrown off either up or down. So it's just a matter of sort of deciding whether the new information justifies the new adp.
- [50:26]
A
Something I did this year, which is, it's new for me, but I know a lot of people do this where they'll write like the way too early fantasy football rankings, you know, in January, right when the season, regular season finishes. I did that for myself here to almost make it like a time capsule where I can go back and say, okay, this is where I was on this player in January and do exactly what you're talking about. What changed over these months that made me say this player's not a first round pick anymore? Have you done that before? And like what, what ends up being the biggest factors that, that change someone's value for you?
- [50:59]
B
You. Oh man. Yeah. So I try not to get too caught up in depth charts. Basically fantasy scouting via depth chart. Like I, if a player is good, I don't want to knock him too much for the situation. Like I, I have faith in the ability of good players to, to overcome like in some ways I have some doubts about lad McConkey this year because he like was not, he didn't rank that high in targets last year. You know, the Chargers clearly want to be a running team and they were actually less run heavy last year than I thought they were. Going to be. They have since signed Najee Harris and drafted Omarion Hampton. They also added a pretty good outside receiver in the draft in Trey Harris. So, like, I don't love the target outlook for lad McConkey still, but the guy's just so good that I, I don't really want to fade him. And in fact, I just took him late in the third round of the Scott Fish ball. So, yeah, I, that's kind of it. Like, I. One thing that comes to mind is that I don't want to be too swayed by situations in how I, how I regard either talented players or players who I don't think are that talented. I don't want to push the untalented guys up because of seemingly good situations or players push down the talented guys because of seemingly worrisome situations.
- [52:27]
A
Yeah, that's, that's one thing, like, I've always heard, especially my co host Dave Kluge talks about. It is like talent over situation, because situation will change constantly. Especially when you're like, I know you do a lot of Dynasty, right? And that's, that's one of the, the best ways to look at Dynasty. We talk about things that are changing all the time and that, that will change in the fantasy football space, changes in the NFL. It's like this living, breathing thing that's always new and different. If you could see something change in fantasy football now, something you just want to see more of, whether that's how we analyze the game or what people do in their own leagues, what is, what's, what's one thing that you'd love to see more of?
- [53:05]
B
Oh, man. Maybe just for the fantasy space, a little more humility, like on, on Twitter. Just people in the fantasy biz. And I'm guilty of this too. Like, we're pretty dug in with a lot of our stances and so often we get stuff wrong. I guess I never like it when I see people talk down to the audience they're trying to reach. Like, maybe my all time Twitter pet peeve are the tweets where someone says if you're doing this or if you're not doing this, you're doing it wrong. Like, I just, I don't know. I'm never going to be the guy telling people they're doing it wrong. Like, there's some really smart people who play fantasy football. And like our football guys are fantasy pro subscribers, like doctors, professors, executives. I don't ever want to come off as lecturing to people because a lot of the people I'm talking to are smarter than I am, probably, probably most of them.
- [54:01]
A
In fact, I am a big believer in that you cultivate your audience. Like if you are doing something where you're posting or recording, recording like angry, rage, baity type stuff of like, did you listen? Are you doing this? Like, don't miss out. You're going to have people that are going to have these visceral reactions to everything, right? But if you, if you are putting out thoughtful, genuine content, you're gonna have thoughtful, genuine audience. Like, that's just, that's just a way, like that's not even just in fancy football. That's in life. That's relationships, that's business. That's everything. So I, I love that you, that you bring that up here and that makes me think because I know, at least I believe you are one of the nicest people in the fantasy football space. You were incredibly nice and thoughtful to me when I first started out and I know how I am going to always think of Pat Fitzmaurice. But let's say when it's all said and done, you are, you know, riding off into the sunset at age 98 years old and no longer doing fantasy football content. What is one thing that you hope that people remember about your time in the industry?
- [55:09]
B
Oh, man, if I could get to 98, that'd be great. Maybe if I could just go back and erase the college years and all the damage I did myself then I guess I hope people would say that I was a good writer first and foremost. Just because I've always like that was my track back in college, that the journalism approach. And hopefully a few people will say that I was mildly entertaining as a talker on shows and hopefully a few will be able to say that I once gave them a good piece of fantasy advice.
- [55:40]
A
I love that. Just a little bit of well balanced everything. I could definitely say you've done a bunch of those things for me. I've enjoyed recording with you in the past and I've read your stuff and reading before I ever even got to meet you. So, I mean, I know you've made an impact on me. I'm sure there's a ton of people you made an impact on in the fantasy space, whether it's audience or industry people. And well, that's actually perfect segue into our mailbag that we have here because we do have some people that you have affected in one way or another that have some questions for you and I love to do this sort of like lightning round here at the end. Well, first, this Is we got a couple of your co workers here. Ryan Warmley asks who, who's your favorite coworker at Fantasy Pros? Then Sal Stefaniel, who is your favorite YouTube shorts editor at Fantasy Pros slash betting pros.
- [56:28]
B
I'm gonna go with Ryan Wormley, his favorite colleague, and Sal Stefanile as my favorite producer. Video shorts.
- [56:35]
A
Safe, Safe. Very safe of you. Nice. You have a great working environment over there. I see like a good, just like team. Not even team family. Right. That you have over there at Fantasy Pros. Like, I love all that of those guys.
- [56:50]
B
Yeah. And we also have some awesome people, like, behind the scenes, like the, the developers are the star of Fantasy Pros. Like, they are truly exceptional at what they do and really nice people, too. And I always love getting to see them in person at least once a year at our little company retreat.
- [57:09]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's, I think that's always such a big thing is like, you and I, we get to talk here right now. Right? Like in a webcam. Not quite the same. Like, when I see you at the expo, it's totally different, man. I give you a big hug. We can, we can, you know, sit down, drink a beer, talk about life. You know, there's no lights and cameras on us. It's a little, A little different even for us. Casual is to try to make this.
- [57:28]
B
Exactly.
- [57:29]
A
But, yeah, you can't. You can't replace that. Okay, next question on here. Jeremy, who is the fantasy football Reddit moderator, he asks about the term expert and the moniker that gets thrown around a fantasy football experiment. Expert. Do you think that tends to, does it give value to the person with that, with that moniker there? Do you think it sort of creates more of a chasm between you and an audience member where there's like almost a gatekeeping, in a sense?
- [58:01]
B
Yeah, more of a chasm. Like, I don't, I don't like using expert. And I think a lot of people who do what we do would rather prefer analyst. And I think my favorite term of all, which Rich Rebar came up with, we're fantasy weathermen. You know, we are, we are trying to figure out what is going to happen, but there are going to be times where we tell you to take an umbrella and it's a bright sunny day, or times where we tell you minimal chances of rain and you get poured on. So, you know, we're not always going to get it right. But, you know, we've got the, the data and the science that we're trying to follow, and hopefully our advice is right. More often. Often than not.
- [58:39]
A
It's funny, man. I still. Yeah, it's. It's. It's. We're basic meteorologists, essentially. And I just, like, I have run into this situation so many times where I remember it happened, me and my wife were out on vacation, and we run into this other couple, and, you know, you do the whole thing, oh, where you guys from? What do you do for a living? And I always just take, like, a big, deep sigh, and I'm like, it's gonna sound fake. And I don't really know how else to say it. Like, I. I analyze fantasy football, and I remember one person, they were from across the pond, and she's like, well, that doesn't sound like a right proper job. What is that? It's just like. Okay, I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, my mom thinks it's a proper job. So, you know.
- [59:23]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's. That is the thing, Alfredo. Like, you know, I came up in journalism and always figured I was going to work in a newspaper somewhere. And, like, if you would have told me back then that, you know, way down the road into my career, I would be leaving the field of journalism to work on fantasy football full time, I'd be like, oh, great. I'm, you know, unmarried, living in my mom's basement, and, you know, but, like, newspapers are dying, and even your aunt plays in six fantasy football leagues now. And it's actually like, the healthier industry in a lot of ways. It's weird.
- [60:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things that, like, it adapts really well. Like, we talked about how, like, the game itself changes, but I think just also, like, the game of football. Excuse me. Like, the game of fantasy football just adapts so well to consumers and audience members, and it's just finding, like, I don't think any of us, years and years ago, would have thought there could even be a TV show about it where we got the league. And it's just about. Even though it's a funny show, it's a great show, but it's just. It's about these dudes that are in a fantasy football league. Like, who would have thought that could be commercialized into a TV show?
- [60:33]
B
Yeah. Or, you know, who would have thought, like, with, you know, was it Tommy Pham, the baseball player, like, getting into a fight with one of his teammates over a fantasy football dispute? Like, it's just. Yeah, fantasy everywhere, man. I was kind of ubiquitous now, and it's fantasy.
- [60:51]
A
Like, I've seen Fantasy, Fantasy Bachelor. I've seen Fantasy Love Island. Like, there's so. It's just. It's getting everywhere. It's. It's crazy. I'm happy to be a part of it. It's one of those things you kind of pinch yourself because it's surreal. You get to do something super fun like you have a bad day. And one of my favorite quotes is like, oh, what, are you upset that you get to live out your dream every day? No. Get back to it, man. Like, you'll be okay.
- [61:14]
B
Exactly.
- [61:15]
A
Just. I love it. All right, we got two more questions here, and then I'll let you go because I know we've been going here for a little while, but at Lonos, Revenge on Twitter asks you to list your top five Wisconsin Badgers who have gone pro.
- [61:31]
B
Oh, man. Top five. It's got to be Jonathan Taylor, number one, Melvin Gordon. I mean, I. I said him or I was in Camp Randall Stadium when he broke the single game rushing record in the snow against Nebraska, only to have it broken the very next week by Samaji P. Rine at Oklahoma, which was, wow. Thing. So Lee Evans and Chris Chambers, 3 and 4. Hard to order, those guys, but I'll put Evans 3. Chris. Chris Chambers, your guy, a Miami. Yeah, Dolphin. And man, let's see, who am I going to save the last one for? It's got to be Russell Wilson. Only one year Wisconsin, but what a year it was. And yeah, he was just like, that was just the best graduate transfer gift that ever happened in Wisconsin and made for a really memorable one year of Ross in Madison.
- [62:25]
A
Man, those are some. Some names. The Chris Chambers one. That was a good, good pool.
- [62:28]
B
That Chambers was awesome, man.
- [62:32]
A
Yeah, he's got a. He's got himself like a little. Not a little, but like a big fitness center down in South Florida that he runs. And like, yeah, like the high school athletes go and train there. It's really cool, man.
- [62:43]
B
Glad that he's settled in the warm weather after doing his time in. In Madison, Wisconsin and experiencing some rough winters.
- [62:50]
A
So many of these guys do. I like it. Just, just small aside here, I remember when I was still living closer to the Miami area, Brandon Marshall living down there, did the same thing, started a fitness facility. Chad Ochocinko, Dante Culpepper, all these guys, if they spent even one season on the Miami Dolphins, they're like, okay, I'm gonna retire here and stay here.
- [63:14]
B
Yeah, great weather, great tax situation. Who can blame them?
- [63:18]
A
Yeah, man, it's South Florida's a Fun place to be. A little expensive, but it's fun. Last question on here from, from Petar Petrovich. He asks, did you attend the Replacements shows? And if yes, how good are they live?
- [63:33]
B
Oh, man. So I've seen them twice. Once in their heyday, like back in the late 80s, and once when they did a reunion show maybe like, I don't know, six years ago. So, yeah, to the uninitiated, the Replacements were this great rock band in the 80s who could have been huge, but they were famously self sabotaging, showing up for, you know, Saturday Night Live appearances drunk and playing the song that they were asked not to play by Lorne Michaels. And so their, their live shows could be a real mixed bag because they're, you know, if they were on, they could just light it on fire. And, you know, if they did a little too much of the drinky drinky before the show, you could get a terrible show. I got a terrible show out of them back in the the 80s and it was just like, oh, my God, this is, this is bad. These guys are like too hammered to play their instruments. Then they got together, like two of the original four members, but the main guys, like their, their singer, guitarist, songwriter, Paul Westerberg, genius, he and the bassist got back together, did a show. I saw them in Milwaukee like six years ago, and they were phenomenal and they were loud. And my wife to this day complains to me that she thinks she has hearing loss as a result of that show. But, you know, if you can sacrifice your wife's hearing to see your favorite band rip it up well past their prime, got to do it.
- [64:55]
A
I am definitely the uninitiated because I had not heard of this band and now I, I know I'm going to be YouTubing after I get off this show.
- [65:03]
B
Yes. And I'm not even the biggest Replacements fan in the fantasy industry. That honor goes to Andy Barons, who I know back in, back in their heyday, I think briefly sort of followed them around from city to city. And that's. Yeah, man, that's.
- [65:18]
A
That's cool. That's. Andy's one of those guys, like, he's got a, he's got an interesting story from, from doing that to, to writing a book that becomes a movie to now being in the fantasy football space. Like, there's so many cool stuff, stories.
- [65:30]
B
In our industry and just a great guy. But yeah, go, go listen to Tim by the Replacements. Tim. All right, Best album.
- [65:37]
A
Writing that down right now. Gotta check it out after this. Pat, this is it's been so fun, man, just to pick your brain a little bit, talk about this game we love, get to know you a little bit better. I feel like I became a better fantasy analyst doing this. I hope that people watching or listening feel like they got better at this game because you gave us some great nuggets of wisdom here. Last thing is, I'd love for you just talk a little bit about what you're doing over at Fantasy Pros and Betting Pros where everyone can find your work. And, man, calm before the storm. Everything's about to take off. Pretty soon it is.
- [66:08]
B
And, you know, I feel kind of energized this time of year. Like, every time coming out of the fourth of July like that is, we are running downhill towards fantasy draft season. It's great. And, Alfredo, thanks for having me on. It's always great talking to you and even greater to hang out with you in person, which I can't wait to do in Canton, Ohio, in August. Yeah, people I hope will check out fantasyprose.com where we have our draft kit live. Check out the fantasy Pros football podcast, the Fantasy Pros Dynasty podcast. People can find me on Twitter at fitzff. Yeah, and thanks for all the kind words, Alfredo. Hopefully, you know, I've helped more people out than I've driven into the ditch. So, you know, based on last year's, we just came out with our draft ranking, draft accuracy rankings from last year. You did really well. I didn't do so well, so obviously I did steer a lot of people into the ditch. I'll try to do better this year.
- [67:05]
A
You know what, man? Blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. Like last year. Last year I was off. This year I got to do better. And now all. All I'm saying is, like, okay, well, don't mess it up next year. It's like, right back to the drawing board. That's the labor of love in this industry, but we do love it. And, Pat, man, loved having you on. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here. And as always, I want to thank everybody for watching or listening. If you made it this far, I love you. You love this show. This was great. As always. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Adios. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention?
- [68:04]
B
You can reach great listeners like yourself.
- [68:06]
A
With podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.