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How You Can Fix Your Fantasy Football Team Before Week 3 with Derek Brown
01:31:10
On this episode of the Pretend GM Podcast, I spoke with Derek Brown about his in-season strategy for fantasy football and how the game is changing right before our eyes. Subscribe to the Podcast: - Apple: - Spotify: Follow Alfredo Brown on...
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- [00:00]
Derek Brown
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- [00:29]
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- [01:28]
Derek Brown
Every year changes drastically. You can't expect life last year or the two years before that to repeat in the following season because every time we always come up for air and look at it, it's week six, week seven and everybody's like, oh my gosh. Like everything's just so crazy. Like if everything goes right, what happens? And if that happens, then I'm winning all the money. Then I'm in first place. Then I'm winning my league.
- [01:54]
Alfredo
On today's episode of the Pretend gm, I got to sit down with Derrick Brown of Fantasy Pros, and honestly, this is just a fun hang. We got to talk about stuff outside of fantasy football, but we got to talk mostly about how he adjusts to things in season, how he can Adjust from what his pre draft takes were to what you have to do on a weekly basis to find upside, how he trades with people. And the biggest thing is not getting stuck on the data from previous weeks or previous years as you go on through the fantasy football season. Just like you and me. Derrick Brown is pretend gm. Thanks for joining me, dude. Thanks for joining me.
- [02:27]
Derek Brown
This was good to catch up. That's what, that's what. I just look at this like, this is us catching up before Canton.
- [02:33]
Alfredo
Yeah, man. Like, you and I don't get to talk enough. And every time I see you, it's just you have this, like, you're doing it right now. You have this infectious energy that it's just, it's so positive to be around. I mean, infectious in a good way. Like, it's just, it's so positive to be around you. And like, I, I just, I can't help but smile, man. Like, I can't help but laugh in our conversations. It's so great, man. And, and I, I think you're, obviously, you're a great shining light in this industry, but I think you're more than that too. Like, you're a great mind in this industry. And I know I'm talking you up. Don't worry.
- [03:05]
Derek Brown
I was like, a lot of people will have so many grievances with what you just said.
- [03:09]
Alfredo
I'll chill out.
- [03:10]
Derek Brown
My ego and my imposter syndrome say shut up.
- [03:12]
Alfredo
But no, I'll reel it in. You're very subpar. You're pretty average. But no, there we go, down that track.
- [03:20]
Derek Brown
Let's go. Keep on. Come on. Let's go down that road. That road. I'm more comfortable with that road.
- [03:25]
Alfredo
I like what, what I want to do with this podcast. And the goal through all of this has been to bridge the gap between people that play fantasy football and the people that actually get to study it and talk about it for a living. Because, like, I, I genuinely believe we don't have enough teaching in this industry. We have a lot of. Here's your answer. Don't worry about the why just eat it and shut up and, and, and go away. And that's, and that's most of the time what people want, right, is they, they want the destination, not the journey. But I think there is some of that that's missing here where we can lift. Hey, this is how we talk about this.
- [03:56]
Derek Brown
I, I, I emphatically agree. And that's one of the things, like, just from overall content standpoint, I feel like we are teaching people how to fish, so to speak. Like in the sense of if, if we as a content industry can teach people like, or at least like illuminate the things that we think are important or that are data backed where it's like these things are important and here's the R squared, here's the data to, to prove and am I running simulation? Am I run know. But like I can point to other sharp people in the space and say look like illuminating their work and saying look, this is, this is what is tried and true. It's sticky, it's real. And whether that's something simple as fantasy points per game or some of your deeper metrics, like it all sticks. So like I fully agree with that. And that's, that's one of the things that like I feel like has grown for me over the years. Like I wasn't analytically driven. Obviously. Like, you know, a lot of people get into fantasy. They aren't. And the insertion of analytics more into the conversation I feel like is doing a people a service in not only teaching fantasy and how to be better at fantasy, but honestly just the NFL game, you know, because at the end of the day, we're all just talking football now. We centered around a game about a game, but we're still just talking football, dude.
- [05:18]
Alfredo
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, I love that you, you focus on that of like when you first come in, you're not looking at these certain things, right? And then as your journey goes on, your view of it changes. I mean, first of all, how did you get into your start in fan and working in fantasy football and like, and what, what has, what's changed for you over these years? Because I know we all look at it one way and then after you've been in this industry for a little bit, you start to look at this game a different way.
- [05:44]
Derek Brown
I mean, so do you, do you want the, the Cliff Notes version? I know pit, the younger version will not even know what Cliff Notes is, but do you want to give me the walk of, of where the hell it' for me to get here?
- [05:55]
Alfredo
The very best version that you want people to hear is what I want. This is, this is not a short show by any means.
- [06:04]
Derek Brown
So I got into fantasy. My brother in law got me into a league with a bunch of college friends and high school friends and stuff like that. So that started the journey of fantasy. And I got super, I mean, I'll just say it, I got super obsessed with it. It was a passion, it was a hobby where I was just always in it, like, looking forward to draft nights. We had family leagues. I. I still remember, like, watching fantasy football shows on NFL Network, you know, I mean, the Adam ranks, the world, Fabiano, all those Marcus Grant and stuff.
- [06:38]
Alfredo
Were just the worst guys, honestly.
- [06:40]
Derek Brown
Oh, terrible. Terrible. Just. But no, I mean, and. And watching those shows and just getting deeper and deeper and deeper into it. And then we ended up moving for my job from Louisiana to Texas. And when we got over here, you know, you've, like, I'll say you're blessed with a lot of extra time whenever you make a move to a place where you don't have, like, a support system, you don't have a lot of friends and family and things like that. And you're. All of a sudden, you're just. You're graced with all this extra time where it's like, I mean, we're not going to this. We're not doing this. We're not, you know, going over to so and so's house for dinner, whatever. And I was like, dude, I was like, all this extra time and I was so into fantasy. I was like, I. I wonder if I could do this writing thing. Like, and. And background of me. Like, I was never a writer. I was never. Like, I've literally probably read. I. Like, I'm such a fraud. Like, all these books behind me are all my wife's. I've got publications stacked here that I've done and stuff like that. But I'm. I'm not an avid reader. Because the part of your brain that, like, where people talk about, I envision the story, I see the characters. I envision all this in my head. I wasn't born with that wiring. Like, I just see words on a page. It's incredibly boring to me. Like, I lose interest. Like, nothing happens. Like, I'm the same dude.
- [08:04]
Alfredo
I'm an audiobook guy. I can't. I can't do that.
- [08:06]
Derek Brown
I'm big into music. Music is my poetry. Music is my literature. Music is the thing that, like, when people talk about, right? Like, when people talk about reading and being obsessed with books and stuff like that, I. I can understand that type of passion for something because that's how I am with music. So similar, but different. But, like, going back to it, like, I never thought I'd be a writer because, like, I mean, literally, I used to write school papers, like, essays and everything else. I. I would literally take out a Cliff Notes book, and it was just a bunch of bs. Like, I would go find quotes that could support it, and I Was good enough of BSing and stringing things together. Like, I never. I've only read one cover, one book cover to cover. And that's how I got by in English classes all the way growing up. And because I just. I couldn't do it, dude. Like, I'd sit down for, like, 25 minutes to read, and I was, like, falling asleep. It just did nothing to hold my attention. And we moved here, and I was like, man, I wonder if I could be a writer. Like, I screw it. I'll just try this. Like, why not? Like, so I went to Best Buy, bought a cheap chromebook, and DM'd a few people on Twitter that, like, I followed. The first two notable people were Michael Hoff and Anthony Sorvino. I sent both of them messages, and they got back to me, told me, like, okay, this is what you could do to get into the end of writing. This is who you could reach out to with. I mean, I still can't thank them enough to this day. Like, I wouldn't if they would have never replied to me. I don't know if I'd be sitting here having this conversation with you, Alfredo. Like, you know, and that's just one of those things. It's like the. The kindness of others that. That impacts your life and leads you down another paths. And so they got back to me, and so I reached out to fantasy pros, to gridiron experts, a few other places about, like, what would that look like? And started the journey of, like, writing a few articles. Like, there's still an Instagram post of the first article that I wrote. I think it was, like, 2016, 2017, and Carson Palmer and Julius Thomas were in it to date myself here. But getting into that, and then just along the way, I was like, I loved it so freaking much. And I think one of the barriers to entry for a lot of people is just knowing where to find, like, statistics to either, you know, just to. To write with, you know, like, what does that look like? Where do you find resources? And I think a lot of that's more easier to find now than it was eight years ago, but trying to build that out. And I kept writing and writing, and I was basically like a mercenary for hire because I was like, look, like, if I'm spending all the time on this now, like, I was writing articles for free or $5 or you get paid per click or page view, and it's like, bro, like, nobody knows who the heck I am. Like, I'm not gonna get paid by that. I was Just doing it because I loved it and continuing to do that over the years. Like, I was basically like, okay, well, if I'm spending the time for this, it's got to make sense for me. Like, Like, I want to try to be. I've always been motivated and I've always been, like, intrinsically motivated. Like, regardless of whatever it was, whether it was in healthcare and nursing before I got into writing, you know, in school and stuff like that, where it was like, look, I. I might not be the best, but I want to sit here and try to be the best version of whatever that I can be. And so a lot of that went over to writing and I was like, look, like, if I'm doing this, can I get this to where I'm making enough, like, side cash to, you know, pay for Christmas presents for my kids, or can it be like, another means to sit here and support my family, even if it's just like vacation, fun, money, whatever? And that just kind of kept building and building and. And then I got into the podcast realm. Just like, not because I the. The site that I was writing for my dude, Willie Lovato, who's out there in the ether still selling draft kits and beautiful human love. That dude, like a brother we still talk to this day, helped him run a website called fantasy football 24 7. Started doing. We got our podcast, got picked up, which is now like, it's funny because whenever we messed with them, they. Nobody knew who they were. But the Locked on network, which now has like, tons of like, teams and stuff like that, like, fantastic structure. But we were like, in its infancy. We did that for about a year. And just through all of this winding path, man, it's like I just kept working at it and working at it and never thought that it was going to lead to an actual job where, like, this is what I do. That's how I pay my bills, how I feed my family. I never thought that that was like a true reality until, like, I started applying for like, a few jobs, like, applied for cbs, applied for NBC, got, like, to the final table and a lot of different calls, Pff, places like that. And I was like, man, this might be a reality. Like, I might be able to do something with this. Eventually landed with ftn, work with them a number of years and things kind of changed and fantasy pros kind of had an opening and. And I did an interview with them. I think I called Joe Pizza Pia on a Monday and said, like, look, man, like, I'm kind of like contemplating some things and Some stuff. And he was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You. You. You. You might be looking for a change in. In venue. And I was like, I. I mean, I'm not ruling it out. That call happened on a Monday or Tuesday. Fantasy pros, higher ups got back to me on Wednesday. I had an interview on Friday, and I was on a phone call making breakfast for my kids on Sunday morning and. And accepting an offer from them. And it was just like, it happened so fast, man. And it's like, honestly, it feels like I, like, blink my eyes and the last year, eight years of doing this or whatever just kind of like, all went by in a flash and, you know, so it's kind of a whirlwind. I know it sounds like a longer amount of time than you know, but, I mean, anybody, dude, like, once you hit 30, everything just kind of seems like it just kind of starts going, you know, as far as time and stuff. So it's been crazy. I still think it's nuts. Like, I still think it's. It's insane to me that anybody gives a crap about what I have to say about anything, man. Maybe to be honest, like, that's not humility. That's not puffed, like, whatever. That's not fake. Like, I. I genuinely, like, surprised and bewildered that this is my job and anybody cares at all.
- [14:55]
Alfredo
Yeah, dude, you. I think you really encapsulated how long it takes, too, and how much work goes into it, because I think, oh, man, a lot of people don't know, like, everything that goes behind the scenes. And like, funny enough, I shared. I shared that experience with you, by the way, of, like, you. You going into Fantasy Pros, where I. That exact same week, I came on in what was like, sort of like an audition where I was reached out to of like, hey, come out here. We want to see you on here. And like, I got to meet you and I saw you got the job, I just let you know, like, I didn't, obviously, but you and Ericson ended up getting the job there at Fantasy Pros. And the feedback for me was like, hey, man, you're still a little green. You're still very new in the industry. I had maybe been doing it for like, six months, and it's. I was so disappointed. But then what I really needed to realize was, like, dude, people don't get that in six months. Like, you don't get that opportunity to audition for something. So, like, hearing that's one of the things that I've come to get that perspective of doing the show. Talking with Chris Allen and how many years he did stuff, talking to you, all the things that you put yourself into.
- [16:02]
Derek Brown
Chris and I were OGs, dude. Like, we did Dynasty shows on DLF with him, me, him, and Adam Wildy as, like, guest spots. Like, I remember recording those or prepping for them while I was. Like, I had a makeshift desk in our bedroom and stuff. I was podcasting, like, in a corner of our bedroom and stuff. It's. It's wild, dude. Yeah. Like, the journey of this is so long, and people don't realize, Like, I think there's some saying out there or things like, you know, there's. There's something to luck. Like, it's. There's the hard work that you put into it to get yourself ready for when any op. Like, either making it.
- [16:43]
Alfredo
Preparation meeting, opportunity.
- [16:44]
Derek Brown
Yes, yes, yes.
- [16:45]
Alfredo
That's. That's it. Yeah.
- [16:46]
Derek Brown
I was like, there's some kind of quote out there that ties all this together that I'm really gonna fumble the bag on. But, like. Yeah, but there's something to be said about that. Like, people say it's lucky, and people say this and that. Like, I. I'm fully aware that, like, they're. I mean, you know as well as I do, man, like, you're full time on this. Like. Like, these things, like, you can count on two hands a little bit more of, like, the opportunities in this space to do that. And so I'm well aware of how, like, blessed and, you know, not numerous these positions are, especially in today's, you know, fantasy industry media climate and stuff like that, too, where it's like, I don't take that for granted, but, like, people don't realize the. The time that it's taken, whether it's been, you know, sacrificing time with my kids, my family. I mean, dude, like, I was. I was sacrificed. Like, I was. Instead of having lunch breaks when I was a nurse and stuff like that, Like, I was taking. Obviously, like, I wasn't, like, you know, negating my responsibilities when I was at work, but, like, on my lunch break, instead of eating lunch, like, I would go do a serious radio hit and come back, and I wouldn't eat for, like, 14 hours until I got home that night. You know what I mean? Because I was busy, but I was like, I want to do this, you know? I mean, like, that was a great.
- [17:59]
Alfredo
Way to stay in shape. It's a great way to stay thin. Yeah.
- [18:01]
Derek Brown
Fasting. Even though before fasting was a thing, and.
- [18:04]
Alfredo
Yeah.
- [18:04]
Derek Brown
You know, but things like that or staying up till 3am, 4am doing preseason DFS content for a site. Because I want it done. If I'm gonna put my name on something, I'm gonna do it the way that I think it should be done. Or even when I got into, like, writing the Primer and stuff, man, like, people don't realize, like, how much time goes into what we do. It's not like the outside perception of looking in. It's like, oh, that's, you know, like, you talk about football, how hard can that be? Everything is work. You know what I mean? And everything takes time. And even if you love your job, there are going to be moments where you're still like, it's taking time away from your family, you know, other possibilities, like, you know, or you're working long hours. Like that. That's a reality. It's not just all of us kicking our heels up, man, like, behind the scenes. Like, nobody would have known. Unless, like, I'm telling them on this podcast that, like, before last season, for the two previous years writing the Primer, I literally pulled all nighters every single Wednesday night. And so, like, I would not sleep all Wednesday night. Right, right, right, right, right. Get that into editors Thursday morning. So the article came out. I had an art. I had a show. Two shows. One or two shows at. On Thursday morning would do those shows, then go to sleep for about three or four hours or, you know, by the time I got done, and then go pick up, like, get up and go pick up my kids. And I did that for 18 weeks straight for two years. And it's like. But people don't know that. You know, it's like on the outside in, it's like, people just love to, like, toss. Toss grenades at you. And they're like, oh, this is crap. Blah, blah, blah. And it's like, dude, do you know, like, when you say stuff like that, like, like, fine, whatever. Like, we can all be keyboard warriors and stuff that makes you feel better, but it's like at the same time, like, people don't realize the work and the time that goes into stuff like that, you know?
- [19:54]
Alfredo
Yeah, you're putting your heart and soul into it. Yeah, it. That is something. Like, I've had the same thing where people say, like, oh, it's the off season now, right? Like, you must be just hanging out doing things. And it's. And it's like, no, first of all, a lot of people that do this aren't. They're not even just doing the. The fantasy analysis side. Like, they're doing other Things behind the scenes that you don't even know about. Oh, they're, dude, they're doing things throughout the off season. They're like, man, I was like, your.
- [20:22]
Derek Brown
Role, you have so. You wear so many hats from football guys. Like, I know that you're on the back end doing a lot of different things. When I first got into ftn, like, I was doing the analyst role. I was writing basically a version of the primer for FTN every single freaking week. And I was covering their podcast network and I was editing podcasts and was training people and I was over outreach and partnerships and stuff like that too. And I had other business calls. Like, I was wearing all these different freaking hats, working like 70 to 80 hours a week, a lot of different times. And people are like, oh, you must be. I mean, just living the life. Fantastic. It's like, dude, this is work. Like, you might not see that on the outside, but it's still work, man. Like, it's time.
- [21:00]
Alfredo
This, this isn't us complaining for audience listening or watching. Like, we're not complaining.
- [21:04]
Derek Brown
Giving a reality of what, yes, the true sense of having a full time role in this space looks like versus what the perception is. This is not me griping and complaining at all. This is just sharing the reality and speaking the truth of certain things, you know? And again, I love it. Like, I'm still doing this job. So no, it's not like brow beating and bludgeoning me to death. Like, I. Like, I love doing what I do, but this is the reality of what it takes to do what we do too.
- [21:36]
Alfredo
Yeah, yeah. Dbro, you have had such a journey through the fantasy industry, but I know that with that comes a lot of twists and turns and ways that change our thinking. If we could rewind, we go back to the very first fantasy league that you're in and we talk to that DBRO versus the one right now. What's the biggest difference in how you looked at the game then versus how you look at it now?
- [22:04]
Derek Brown
I think it all comes back that I kind of mentioned this earlier was like, just. Just the use of analytics and deeper metrics and things like that. Like, like my process with all of this has changed so much. And I'm not saying it was like vibes and things like that, but like, you know, I think how we analyze the game and how I looked at the game then was more surface level. It was a lot of volume things. It was a lot of, you know, fantasy points per game and things. Like, you know, at that time, like, I believe Like a player could take off like if, if it was like this or this or this. And like, honestly just a lot of like I, I didn't know what to look at, you know, and I think starting it that way and then just getting deeper. But I think the conversation, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong with this, Alfredo. Like, I think the conversation around fantasy has evolved over the last like 10 years. Like so many things that are so centric to the NFL. Whether that's like things that are common, not, not like common, commonplace, but more commonplace than, than if you would rewind eight to 10 years ago. Like pace of play, play volume, deeper analytics and metrics and stuff like that. So I think the conversation, my understanding and my, the way I talk about the game and the way I view it has evolved so much over the years from just learning, growing and also like the shade of the conversation changing over time where it is more numbers and things like that. Not to say like, you know, we don't also have our own vibes and, and diagnosis of situations and stuff that plays into it too. But I feel like the conversation around fantasy has also become more NFL driven, like real football driven and analytically driven just over time as it's evolved. So like, I think like my way of looking at it has evolved with that.
- [24:03]
Alfredo
Yeah. And I think too it's like it's not just one. We're living in an era where there's more information that is accessible to us than ever before. There are more people doing this than ever before. If you don't have an open mind to allowing yourself to see things differently, to think differently, I think you do yourself and your audience a disservice. Right. Like you're not playing the game to the best of your ability and we're making it sound way too serious, the game about a game. But like it's. I think like a lot of this just carries on over into life too. Like it's transcendent if you're not open minded and you won't accept new information, like you're not going to be good at what you do. D RO I think there's there, there are people, there are moments, there are even like past experiences, skill sets that influence how we approach fantasy football analysis. Like I had the opportunity to spend a year in the scouting department for FIU football that made me look at the game differently than I did prior to that. A lot of it was just vibes and saying, I like this player. Has there been a person or an experience that has changed the way you approach fantasy football analysis.
- [25:07]
Derek Brown
Oh, dude, there's been so many people along the way. Whether it's like listening to them talk about football and talk about fantasy that made or how they look at it. Like whether that's talking about people that were so numbers driven and analytically. Analytically driven but also shared parts of their personality or warmed those things up to where it's more actionable or easy to digest. Like I could say like, and this isn't okay. Like, like, because I work at Fantasy Pros now and, and I write the primer and stuff like that. But dude, like I've shared all these things with Tabby and stuff too. It's like Mike Taglier tags to everybody that knows him was like, he was so influential in just the beginnings of like me looking at it, consuming content. Like, I still remember, like I, I'd reached out to him on numerous spots where he was doing shows before he even went to PFF or Fantasy Bros whenever him and his wife were doing their own thing with their own website. And so his process with all of that was huge to me. Like just the way that he talked about the game, looked at the game, other people, like, like J.J. zacharison, like, was hugely impacted. Like I. There was, there was an awful person. Yeah, dude, I love JJ so freaking much, man. And a lot of these, dude, a lot of these people, like, it's. The other thing, it's funny is like a lot of these people that like I'm mentioning here, like I consider like friends and some of them extremely close friends. Like Reeves when he, when he was with NBC, even now, like the way that he diagnoses, breaks down the game and what all that means, man. And honestly, like one of my closest friends to this day, I remember reading his write ups. God, I have so many. I have so many. I'm burying the lead here. I have so many Thor Nystrom stories that I could tell here that are absolutely freaking hilarious. But he was a huge impact to me and I've told this to him. So if he goes back and hears this or anybody like clips this or whatever, like Thor, don't get your head too big. But he, I've shared this with him, man. Like he was a huge influence to me. Reading his prospect write ups and how he talked about players in the story he, he still continues to tell and the way he does that with his writing, whether it's how he's setting up a story, whether the adjectives, the way that he describes all of this stuff and telling a story About a player's journey is just absolutely fantastic, man. So it's a lot of different parts of pieces. Whether it's enjoying their content, the way that they discuss the game numbers, focused and driven, or building the narrative and telling a player's journey and story in the way that they do that. I mean, it's, it's all shaped like we're, you know, like, in my writing, like, I call myself a meat and potatoes writer. Like, I try to present information as best I can. I just try to be myself. And the voice that I use, whether that's leaning into the sarcastic parts of my personality, dry humor, nerdiness, whatever it is, dude. And, But a lot of that comes to, like, the people that I've consumed content from, even at the very, very beginning. And like, it all kind of. You take it in, you ingest it, and you figure out, is that something that, like, I think is important and what version of me can I express something similar, not trying to copy somebody else, but, you know, deliver this, like, whatever information in the best way possible for me?
- [28:44]
Alfredo
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like we, we pick up so many things from people around us. And I, I. It's very much a community.
- [28:51]
Derek Brown
Right.
- [28:51]
Alfredo
Like, I know that term gets overused, but it is very much a community. Oh, it is like it, it takes a village to, to raise us, I guess, so to speak.
- [28:58]
Derek Brown
Right.
- [28:59]
Alfredo
And I think that because these people, we pick up different skills, we learn different ways to look at this game. And if we go back, we're still in that time machine and we go back to, to baby D, bro, who's playing fantasy football for the first time. If you have to go back to scratch and start over, what is the one skill or one facet of this game that you want to focus on learning first? Maybe there are people right now that are new to fantasy football and they're saying, okay, this seems so overwhelming. What's the first thing that I want to know?
- [29:33]
Derek Brown
I'd say it's kind of twofold for me. It's. We get so centric in our takes where it's like, this will happen in the absolution of it. One thing that, that has helped evolve my analysis over time is that understanding range of outcomes for players and just how wide some of that looks like and what that can look like, whether that's a, A team environment, like, and how I view certain players or certain teams, because to, to, to reach the heights, when we say upside or things like that, it's like to reach the heights of, okay, well, he's wide receiver 15, but could he be wide receiver three? It's like, you know, when you look at certain situations, whether it's volume, plays quarterback, like all these different parts of pieces. Context. Yeah, that. That's just not even in the best case of circumstances that probably might not happen. It won't happen because of said, you know, numerous factors. Even if they all line up and everything's perfect in Yahtzee, like that might not. So. So it's understanding range of outcomes for players and going back to like, I mean just talking about data stuff. It's like efficiency matters. Like efficiency to me, like efficiency matters in the sense is. Is it's the great predictor of it tells you like, okay, the efficiency is a reflection of talent for me and talent. It all goes back to talent. And like we talk about like when I first got into it, it's like, you know, people used to talk about ova k to targets or roles and oh, he's in the, the Amon Rossi Brown role or he's in this role and it's like understanding that efficiency, like it all goes back to efficiency. And if you are a really talented player, that's going to bear out the numbers and if you're a really talented player, then you're going to earn volume, you're going to earn targets. Like roles are defined by talent, which all of that goes back to. You're probably most likely not going to be like an. A truly like inefficient player and produce at a crazy high level. Like that's just not. That just doesn't happen. Like one hand. The two things go hand in hand where it's like if you have talent, you're most likely an efficient player. If you're an efficient player, you're going to demand volume and targets and a high end role in an offense. And none of these things are gifted because of a coordinator or this guy throws two tight ends. Like all those things are false narratives. It's like I could, I mean, come on, Alfredo. Like I'm old enough to remember when George Kittle can never be a thing because Kyle Shanahan didn't utilize tight ends in his offense.
- [32:13]
Alfredo
Right.
- [32:13]
Derek Brown
Or you know, this guy doesn't throw this slot. It all goes back to talent finds a way. And a lot of that's the basic building block of that is efficiency.
- [32:24]
Alfredo
Well, like how often do we see that where it's. There's. I typically see it with like running backs where we get what I call these middle management running backs that are in. That are in CEO roles that they're not ready for, or they're just, like, They're. They're unfortunately not talented enough for or.
- [32:38]
Derek Brown
They hold on to because there's not a good enough player on the depth chart to take the job or take some of the work away. Yeah. You know?
- [32:45]
Alfredo
Yeah, this was. This was my terminology for Zach moss in. In 2024.
- [32:49]
Derek Brown
I mean, this is Rashad White last year.
- [32:51]
Alfredo
Yeah. You know, like, it just. It just happens. And you find these guys that are inefficient, that doesn't necessarily lead to more volume. It's just like life, man. If you're not good at your job, you don't get. You typically, I would say, don't get more opportunities. They just find someone who's better at that job. You know, I think it's funny because, like, we. Yes, I think we try so hard to keep things very analytical. No biases in the way we're looking at players. But I think we'd all be lying if we said there's not an emotional side to fantasy football. Sometimes you might like a player, you'll get attached to a player. Maybe there's just, like, a bad week and you overreact to it.
- [33:29]
Derek Brown
Right.
- [33:29]
Alfredo
I think that's something that happens a lot in fantasy football. Player gets injured and we say, I'm never drafting him again. He screwed me over in Week 14 last year. How do you handle that emotional side of fantasy football? And how, like, how would you suggest to an audience to approach that as well?
- [33:44]
Derek Brown
So I think my approach to it and consumers of content and people that play fantasy football outside of the content space is different. My fandom has kind of gone to the wayside, and it's not just because the Saints suck. And I'm totally tired of Mickey Loomis and the things that he does. But, like, doing all of this, I've really become very unbiased. Like, I'm more of, like, I want to see the players succeed. You know, for me, I've taken a lot of emotion out of it and stuff like that. Like, but that. That's my. Like, do I tilt or something like that if something happens or not or whatever? Sure, we all do. Because, you know, you're competitive, you want to win, whether that's in any venue, whether you're talking about betting dfs, fantasy leagues, whatever. But, like, for me, it's become where I'm. I'm not. The fandom's out of it. I'm. I'm more player centric, and I'M more unbiased. And, you know, I want to see them all succeed. And some of that, like, how I talk about the game has changed because of all of that. So, like. But, like, from the fantasy consumer standpoint, I mean, it's kind of a roller coaster, all of it, throughout the season, whether it's off season, all these different things, I would say try to keep a level head, you know, I mean, because all the players, like, this all comes down to, like, look, like, every year changes drastically, and it's kind of like you're not. You're injury prone until you're not. And you can't expect last year or the two years before that to repeat in the following season, because every time we always come up for air and look at it, it's week six or week seven, and everybody's like, oh, my gosh, like, everything's just so crazy.
- [35:27]
Alfredo
Like, every year.
- [35:29]
Derek Brown
Every year, we thought, like, so every. You have to be open to, like, to embracing the fact that there's a lot of what you know and a lot of what you don't know. And we're just trying to. It's kind of like when you go back to, like, an ethos of parenting where it's like, there's so many things that you don't know. They're like, somebody could present you a rulebook of these are the right things to do with parenting. And day two, you're throwing the rulebook out the window. You're like, no, that doesn't fit me. So the rules are different for everybody. But I'd say, just keep a level head, man.
- [36:04]
Alfredo
You mentioned that. And it's funny because we have so many things that we get, like this sunk cost fallacy of, like, well, I drafted this player in the fifth round. I got to hold on to him. It's like, well, no, they. They busted, man. Like, you're good. You can move on, right? Or like, I've seen it too, in trade talks where someone's like, well, this. I drafted this guy in the third round. You think I'm trading him for this player who you picked up off the waiver wire. And it's like, well, yeah, that player off the waiver is really good right? Now. The one thing you mentioned there in that. In. In that answer was players are injury prone until they're not. And I think that's something that we come across a lot. And even we've had so many medical experts say, like, there's not a real. There's no such thing as injury prone. There Are, however, players that may be more susceptible to injury because of the position they play, the style in which they play the game, things like that. There's just stuff that we don't know. Like hearing Christian McCaffrey talk about, like, oh, I was getting injured because I was lifting weights to look good, as opposed to now I'm doing more yoga and getting more flexible. And it totally changed and it did. And like, he played a full 17 games. Then we get the whole Achilles thing. That's a different story. But how do you factor stuff like that into your analysis when you're making roster decisions, picking up guys off the waiver wire, drafting players? Because there, there has to be a little bit of that balance there, right?
- [37:22]
Derek Brown
Yeah, I mean, I, I think every situation, like, you can't paint it with a broad brushstroke. I think every situation is different, whether it's context for a player's injury history. What does that look like? Like, some things are fluky, you know what I mean? Like, dude, dude got a lot. Like, I remember, what was it? Hunter Henry had a lacerated kidney. It's like, you're not going to project that right through the next year, you know, I mean, things like that, like, where it's like certain injuries and things happen and stuff like that. Where it's like, this is an isolated, just bad luck incident. You know what I mean? It's the same thing as like if I were walking down the street and then tripped in a pothole when I freaking broke my ankle. You know what I mean? It's like, well, I mean, there's a.
- [38:00]
Alfredo
Big difference between that and the guy that tears his ACL three, four years.
- [38:04]
Derek Brown
Yes.
- [38:05]
Alfredo
Over and over and over. Or somebody like, probably a problem.
- [38:07]
Derek Brown
Problem. It's. Or it's a specific, like he's got a history of like a four or five year standing history of like missing time because of ankle issues or hamstring issues or a chronic shoulder condition or whatever. So some of it, it's case by case and what does that look like? But the other part of it is like, again, nerdy me going back to the numbers. But let's. It's. Are you seeing a decline in the numbers? And you marry that with an injury history that is concerning. And that, that leads me to like, okay, well, I, I'm probably going to be below consensus on that player because I'm worried about it. And some of this, honestly too, man, is like, now again, you're talking about, like, we have so many smart people in the space doing injury analysis And I think how injuries are discussed and the perception of injuries is very different. Not to like tangent us and stuff like that, but like, I think a lot of like just fantasy, like the fantasy conglomerate, like when a player's out for two to three weeks and then he comes back and it's like, oh, he should be a full, full go. He's. He's right. Like, he's 100%.
- [39:19]
Alfredo
I call that the, the madnessation.
- [39:21]
Derek Brown
Yeah. Real. Where the reality of it is, it's like if you ever twisted your ankle, if you ever had an injury growing up playing sports at all, you know that like, there's a difference of can I play and am I functional and can I do the things versus am I a hundred percent? And so like, I talk about this all the freaking time. And then a lot of it, like, I have to kind of go with my gut on certain things or use my medical background and things like that with how I'm viewing certain things. Because, like, injury reports will lie in the NFL, we see that year after year after year, guys will come out after the year or after the year. And we, whether it's a Netflix documentary and we find like, oh, wow, like this player was really injured and we never even heard about that. He never even hit the injury report. He was playing with a broken rib or a broken foot or whatever. And it's like there's so many parts or pieces of that where we don't even know the true facts of it because it's underreported. So a lot of that is it. There's a lot of context that goes with injuries and stuff like that. I'll say as a blanket statement, I don't fade players because of injuries, but everything is. Is contextual, you know, I mean, like, is this a problem that's been long standing? Have your efficiency metrics dipped in the process over the few years? Are you old versus young? Like, you know, so there's. There's a lot of different ways to dice it up. I will say I like this all goes back to also doing your own work and is this concerning to me versus is this concerning to consensus, you know, and how do I feel versus everybody else? And that's where you also difference in rankings. And maybe there's an edge.
- [41:07]
Alfredo
Yeah, man. To kind of piggyback on this is I think that when you're evaluating a lot of this stuff, doing your homework, you're trying to figure out, like you mentioned this sliding scale of outcomes, right? Like, what is the range of outcomes? I think a Lot of people, some maybe lean a little bit more into upside than others. But the common question, I get so much from like my high school buddies, my college friends that I'm in home leagues with, they're like, hey man, I'm drafting for another league who's just going to be super consistent and give me like 1112 points every single week. And how do you balance building a team or starting a lineup where you're saying, okay, I either want to go for as much upside as possible, I want to have consistency, I want to have safe floor. I find that that has been the biggest disconnect between people who do this for a living and analyze fantasy football versus people who play it. They want to have the safe floor consistent guy. And I always see from the, from the analysis side, people are saying, embrace that variance, embrace that upside. How do you view this?
- [42:13]
Derek Brown
Upside wins championships, dude. Upside is what wins like it. And I'll, I'll, I'll also piggyback on this. Consistency is a fallacy. I, I think real like consistency and fantasy is truly a fallacy. And, and I'll say this and I, and I look at this and this is how I approach just individual rankings on a weekly basis at fantasy pros too, where it's not just that my mindset is different than others and people like think I like, like I'm hot takey and things like that. I'm aggressive in some of my takes. But the way that I look at that is if you're ahead of consensus, if you're ahead of market, and if I'm right with my process, then this is what can define or change the your league. You know, like shooting for that. Upside is what defines the league. Like every single year we know that there are a handful of players that define the, the fantasy season for people, whether that's at onesie positions, whether that's a bunch of different ways. We could like talk about that. But there are season and league defining players. And so I always lean with my aggressive mindset. And some of this a lot of goes back to like dfs. It's like you have to shoot for upside. You have to shoot for not saying the less likely outcome but, but the nuts outcome. Like if everything goes right, what happens? And if that happens, then I'm winning all the money, then I'm in first place, then I'm winning my league. And I say consistency is a fallacy because when you get down to the granular part of ranking guys on a weekly basis, let's just talk about the wide Receiver position. How many times? Just in general wide receiver production. Okay, like outside of the top eight to 12 wide receivers. Because that's where people like talk about consistency. Well, if you're elite and you're drawing elite volume and you're producing, there's a reason you were a first or second round pick and stuff. Fine. Then you have a high floor because you are an elite player. For every other wide receiver after the top 12 or top 15, however you want to, where you want to draw that line, it is. If you went to the weekly output of wide receivers, it. It is literally a roller coaster. Like guys are like, oh, wide receiver one one week, wide receiver 40 the next week. And weekly scoring. Now in the aggregate, does that all average out to like Wide Receiver 12 over a season? Sure, but we're all playing and living in the week to week. So like my outside of the elites at certain positions. Now again, I'm talking about wide receiver. Running back is, is very different because it's a more volume driven. You have more consistent volumes of that floor and ceiling is a lot higher on a weekly basis. But the receiving positions, like even tight end and wide receiver, it's a roller coaster, dude. So like when you look at weekly performances, people are like, oh, that guy's not very consistent or he's boom, bust, dude. If you look at like the weekly performances, everybody outside of the true elites at wide receiver and tight end and heck, sometimes even quarterback, that's true for every other position pretty much outside of running back. So in a lot of ways, outside of the elite players, consistency is a fallacy.
- [45:33]
Alfredo
Man, I, I love how you said that. I love how you said it. I can hear the passion in your voice.
- [45:40]
Derek Brown
Am I wrong, Alfredo? Am I wrong? Like, no, you're totally right. People will look at certain ranks. And I've gotten hit up on Reddit and in comments and stuff like that, or even disc discord. And it's like, how are you ranking this guy, wide receiver, like 25 or 27. Like this guy is like a top 15 option. What do you do? Because he's got. He's gonna get shadowed by Patrick Surtan. He's gonna get wiped off the freaking map this week. Like so, yes, like, you need to understand that, like, it's not saying don't start your studs, but like, is this guy really the stud that you think they are? And is the matchup going to absolutely tilt things where maybe you need to look at your other options and stuff. Whereas, like, just from a general ranking standpoint, oh, Everybody else has been wide receiver 10. Like, okay, I'm not going to rank somebody at wide receiver 10 every single week or wide receiver 15 every single week. If the matchups and the context around it just besides, like blind faith is telling me to sit here and do that.
- [46:45]
Alfredo
Would you say that's probably the most common mistake that you see happening in fantasy football leagues? Is people just shooting for consistency and safety as opposed to going for that upside? Or is there maybe something else?
- [46:58]
Derek Brown
I think one of the common mistakes of like people will have is, is not embracing what they haven't already seen and expecting last year's results to repeat. And I already kind of touched on that. But like, I've talked about this on numerous shows and stuff like that. I, I think expecting last year's results and people are like, oh no, we know that situations change, blah, blah, blah. But dude, like every single year we have the same conversations about it. Like last year it was like, if you're not ranking CMC as your RB1, then you're, you're. It's clickbait. This year it's. If you're not ranking Saquon Barkley as your RB one, it's clickbait. Like, we see the turnover every single year. Almost every single year there's a new wide receiver one overall. Almost every single year there is a new RB one. Overall, you are in a better spot and there is more ev. If you are expecting that change as opposed to expecting last year's results to carry over into this year. And people are like, I don't do that. Oh really? So go check your comments. Like, oh, it's insanity to sit here and do this because this will happen or what? Like we. But yet by week seven, every year we always talk about, oh, it's insane and so many things have changed and yet we see so many things change. And the RB one does not repeat and the wide receiver one usually does not repeat. Like that's a reality. And yet every single year it's like we're fighting a lot of the same battles. And it's like I can even prove like point, like point these things out like over time and tell you no RB one's repeated in back to back seasons and fantasy points per game since Todd Gurley in 2017 and 2018. And before him, I think it was Priest Holmes way back when. And so it's like I could tell people that they're still like, yeah, but you should have saquon as RB1. Seriously. Like, come on, man. Like, what are you Doing like that's, that's honestly what I think the biggest mistake people, they still hold true to last year. The way that things unfolded will be to a certain extent how things will unfold in the upcoming season. And that's just not how it ever usually goes, man.
- [49:13]
Alfredo
And people will hold on to that, that notion throughout an entire preseason right before we see football being played. Sometimes people will hold on to that sunk cost fallacy while we're watching football get played. But then it's usually you get a few weeks into the season, all of a sudden tones have changed, things have changed. Maybe I'm just using it as the example, but that Saquon Barkley, RB1 overall, he has four down or average weeks. People are livid that they were being told to draft him with the number one overall pick. And they go and try to make these adjustments, right? It's like okay, well what do I do next? I gotta go, let's hit the waiver wire, let's make a trade. And I think when it comes to that, that's where I genuinely believe fantasy championships are. One is your in season management, right? Like for the most part if you almost just follow your app that you're in to an extent, like you'll probably get most of your start sit decisions, right? If you follow adp, you'll probably get most of your draft decisions, right? It's the guys that you pick up off waiver wire and it's the players that you potentially trade for that change everything. They are the biggest swings of the pendulum. So how, what's that process like for you? I know it's a two part question here, but looking at waiver wire pickups or looking at a trade to make, what is that process like for you?
- [50:32]
Derek Brown
It's diagnosing situations and saying okay, does this player. And again I'm going to go back to like I just keep pounding the same drums here. Like it goes back to efficiency and talent and the pathway for a player. Like do I, do I see somebody's role growing? Does the schedule. Because like I, I don't. I hate early season or off season schedule analysis because so much of it changes on a week to week basis and what we think we know about certain defenses and certain teams gets blown apart and certain teams will over perform underperform injuries and all that kind of stuff plays such a huge, huge part of just the week to week game that we play inside a full season management. But like for me it's, it's is the efficiency and talent there is there A chance for the role to, to change and stuff. And do they have the talent to make the best out of the opportunities that they're given? And can they earn more? And does the schedule open up to where, like, you can look ahead? Like, whether it's not like, okay, weeks we're in week three and week 15 through, but like the upcoming weeks, like weeks three through eight or whatever, it's like, dude, this guy's going to crush these. These teams are all bad run defenses. So, like, with trades, I'll look at a lot of those different things and some of it's like going after players that maybe we haven't seen the best of. Maybe they got off to a slow start and their deeper metrics look really good, but we haven't seen them pop yet. But like, it's coming based off of the schedule and their talent and stuff. So a lot of it's like forecasting, which is very like, that's the. I still think that, like, to a. A lot of extents that that's the part that people have. The biggest issue with is, is I haven't seen it yet. I need to see it, but in so many different avenues. Whether that, I mean, dude, tell me that, that this is wrong. Like, that. That is literally describing waiver wire pickups and trades and forecasting of rookies. Those are the things where. Those are the edges. Like you just talked about waiver wire management and trades in season. Those are the edges. Rookies are the edge in fantasy. But all of this comes back to what we've seen, what we need to see and being okay with stepping into the unknown and forecasting and projecting. And a lot of people still have a lot of problems. That's where the hesitancy is because there's nothing to definitively tell you, yes, you're going to be right. Yes, this is going to pay off. And you're making calculated risks with all of that. But that's the edge. That's where it comes in, the edge of, if you're right, you win. If you're right, you get, you win the trade that was the waiver wire pickup to make. So this all comes back to, you need to embrace the variance and embrace the projection because if it, like, could it blow up in your face? Sure. But here's the other side of it. If you don't make that move because you're scared to make the move or you're scared to trade for the player or draft the player, it's also going to blow up in your face for the moves that you didn't make because you weren't willing to embrace all of that. So be okay with making the uncomfortable decision if the process or the people that you trust their voices or what you are looking at tells you to do it, it, do it, stand behind it.
- [54:07]
Alfredo
Man, I, I, I love, I love the passion that you speak about this game with. I really do. Because it's something where I think we're all looking for the skeleton key that like, just solves fantasy football. And that's not how this works. Like, there is, like you've said, there is, there is no one general rule or one general thing that that solves it. But dbro, if I'm putting you on the spot, and I'm saying I need you to give me that one piece of advice to the audience, the thing that I'm going to put on the thumbnail with your beautiful shining face, what would that, let's call it the golden rule for Derek Brown. What would that be?
- [54:49]
Derek Brown
Screw adp. Get your guys. I. ADP is a false construct. It's, it's the result of group think. It is the result of consensus. If you're doing, and this is where I think that, and this is a me too, in my own horn. But like, a lot of people will give me crap about I'm hot take or I'm, I'm just saying things just, just to be different. I'm just trusting the work that I'm doing with the numbers and the time that I'm spending on it and my certain process where it's leading me. But it all comes back to, if you're doing that work, then trust the work that you're doing. Like, trust your process. Trust the people that you trust, their voices and their analysis. Because if not, if you're not going to trust your own process, if you're a content creator, if you're not going to trust the voices that you trust in the space. And again, I'm not saying just blind faith, but like, you know, like, there's certain people, like, whether it's process and all these things or tried and true record you vibe with, then trust those things. Because if not, why are you wasting the time to sit here and write it up? Why are you wasting the time to sit here and do the research? Why are you wasting the time to listen to a podcast, read an article to watch a show? Why are you wasting all that time if you don't trust any of that to begin with from all those different parts? So if you trust it, screw this Consensus thing and get your guys. And I'm not saying to do that recklessly, but, like, be okay with drafting a player around ahead of adp. Like, that might. Whatever. I don't care about Yahoo grades. I don't care about what anybody says about a draft after it happens. Because when we flip over the cards a lot of different times, what we thought in August and September is not the reality that we see unfold in December.
- [56:43]
Alfredo
I love it. I'm gonna have to clean up the language a little bit for the YouTube thumbnail, but I think. I think we got it. I think we got it, folks. So I love that. I know that with taking these swings, right, like, we're gonna be wrong.
- [56:57]
Derek Brown
We're gonna be wrong all the time. Oh, yeah.
- [56:59]
Alfredo
Like, it just, it just happens.
- [57:00]
Derek Brown
We are, we are even the most elite players. Like, whether it's like, like baseball. Let's just take baseball for example. The elites of a game are only successful at times on 33, 30, 29 of what they're doing. So I, I can't. I didn't mean to cut you off, but I can't agree with it more because if you are framing things to people that you are always right, then you're lying to people. Or if people believe that this person, like, you're either lying to yourself or you're lying to your audience. Like, we get all kinds of stuff wrong.
- [57:35]
Alfredo
How do you. How do you go and fix that then? Because, like, obviously we're gonna get stuff wrong. But, like, what's the process, like, where you just. You go back to the drawing board and you say, okay, well, I got this wrong here. Like, what is that all like for you?
- [57:48]
Derek Brown
I think there's been a lot of different ways to sit here and dice that up over the years. I think like some of my biggest haters and all nail with it is like, not last year, but the year before I had Tony Pollard as my RB1. I dove too heavy into. Well, I'd say too heavy because it didn't work out and stuff. But, like, I dove extremely heavy into efficiency metrics and I didn't weigh properly him coming off the injury, what that could have done for his season. And so again, some of this comes back to embracing range of outcomes and also embracing that. Like, I. I know that I'm going to get a lot of stuff wrong. The way that I learn with all of that is understanding the context of what did I miss on. Did I take small sample efficiency and run with it to a point that was detrimental to myself? And whoever's reading my content, did it just not work out? Did a player flame out? Did they get hurt? Was the process right? And they got hurt mid season, so we didn't see the outcome of it. Or like, some things are just random and happenstance with injuries and stuff. But, like, I always go back to the drawing board of what was the run out of all the different dominoes that fell for this player to not do either underperform or outperform what I was projecting. Did they hold on to a role in despite their inefficiency because there was nobody else good on the depth chart and stuff like that to take the players, to take some of the workload away? Did I expand small sample efficiency to a point where it's more noise? And I shouldn't have leaned on that as hard as I did while talking about it in certainty when I should have been like, look like this could happen, but there's a chance it doesn't. So a lot of that is learning from swings and misses. A lot of that is improving the process. Whether it's, you know, embracing the fact that more of, okay, I could. I could easily be wrong in this and, you know, and how. How you're creating that conversation and talking about things without more of the. The bluster and the in, you know, like, for me, I think a lot of the way that I talk about things, people confuse arrogance and cockiness with passion because I freaking love this stuff. And it just. Just. I love it, man. Like, this is not just a hobby. It's a passion thing. It's like, I'll be literally, like, making dinner and all of a sudden, like, have a thing, like, pop in my head about, like, oh, man, like, I wonder. I didn't look at this. What about this player? Like, a crap. Like, let me go back. I'll literally go sit down at the desk for 10 minutes and then get back up and continue making dinner for the fam. Like, you know, so it's like understanding a lot of ways of, like, how I got it wrong and what led me down that path and, you know, try not to make the same mistakes twice.
- [60:42]
Alfredo
Yeah, yeah, I know.
- [60:43]
Derek Brown
I kind of rambled through all. No, but that's extreme of consciousness.
- [60:47]
Alfredo
That's. That's so much what it is, because it's not even just in fantasy. Like, I always make the joke that you. You grow up playing football and your coaches try to make you feel better after a loss and say, we learn so much from our losses. We learn more from our losses than we do our wins. And I think that's true, too, with fans. Oh, yeah, right. Like. Like, you get. You're right on a player. You just go, well, yeah, of course I was right. I know.
- [61:05]
Derek Brown
If you're not learning something by getting kicked in the teeth, then you're blind to the things that can help you grow as a person. Like, what is it? Paint Pain is a great teacher. Like, you know, it's kind of messed up. Like, there's truth. Like, you don't learn anything from your successes. You learn from the things that, like, you were talking about. Like with everything with fantasy pros and. And applying for the job and stuff like that, dude. Like, getting turned away. I got turned away by NBC twice. I got turned away by cbs and learning from those moments and instead of letting it define who I was and what the. What the rest of my story looked like, trying to get better and trying to continue to evolve and add skills and tools to the belt and things like that. Like that. That's what it's all about, dude. It's like converting your losses or tough times into learning moments. And it's like you're either going to let it define you or it's going to define you in one of two ways. Either you don't learn anything from it and you continue repeating the same behaviors and expecting a different result, which is literally the definition of insanity, or you learn from it and you try to grow.
- [62:16]
Alfredo
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's so. It's. It's not only true in fantasy. It's.
- [62:19]
Derek Brown
It's.
- [62:20]
Alfredo
I think it carries over to a lot of other things. One of the things that I've seen you doing a lot more of, and maybe you've been doing it for a long time, and I'm just stupid and don't pay attention. I've seen you do a lot of NFL draft prospect analysis, like going out to the Senior bowl and talking about prospects, man, how has that. That evaluation process evolved for you since you started? Because I think a lot of people might look at someone and be like, well, yeah, I saw his college games. He's a good player. And I'm like, that's it. I know. It evolves into so much more as you get into the process. So how does that change for you?
- [62:57]
Derek Brown
Dude, it's night and day. I mean, you know, with your scouting background and stuff, like, I mean, it's just when you start doing something like that, like, again, embracing all the things that you don't know. And, dude, there's so much like football Wise that like, I could spend years trying to learn and still not knowing it. Like, you know, so it's having an understanding of what do I not know? What. What. What do I know? And trying to not only learn but stay, like, stay within lines. Like, stay within the constructs of like, what, Like, I'm not going to tell you. Like, you know, are they playing cover two rolling? Like, you know, like, I'm not going to go deep into coverages and watching film and stuff like that because, like, dude, like, it's like, no, like, I. I didn't play football. There's a lot that I've learned from the football side of it and stuff. And especially that's helped with like, like me watching film and stuff. And, and the way that I've talked about prospects over the years. I mean, dude, like, I used to do dynasty shows or prospect shows, and it used to be a certain amount of my own work, a certain amount of watching highlights and things like that. I mean, dude, like, now the, the prospect stuff is so intensive for me. Whether it's looking like my end goal is trying to blend film and analytics and create the best, most comprehensive picture. Like, basically paint the best picture of a player's skill set that I can. And what does that look like? Like, every player going into the NFL as a prospect, it has things like they're really good at, and they all have things that they need to continue to work on because they are prospect. They are a young player, you know, and that's just. That's part of being human. Like, we all have crap we have to work on to continue to get better, whether it doesn't matter what, what job you're talking about or specialty you're talking about. And so like, when. When watching players and stuff, like, the analytics that I use and look at now are. I mean, it's such a big part of my process, how I look at that. Like, I'm not a model guy. So a lot of it is looking at certain statistics that are sticky over time. And I'll look at, you know, skit, like subsets of players, like whether it's. And hit my minimums and where they rank amongst these subsets and looking at all the different types of analytics and blending all of that because you'll see the things that you see on film a lot of times, not always because numbers can lie to you. Whether it's broken plays, broken blown coverages. Like, I. I remember so much of, like when I was. We were in the Trailon Burks prospecting cycle And I was like, dude, I am not in on this guy. Like, his numbers are fantastic. But if you watch the film, there are so many instances of like, there is a large swath of his production is simply based upon, like, he had. He was wide open, there was a blown coverage, the safety didn't give help over the top where he should have the corner dropped off. And the dude's literally wide open 55 yards down the field. And this happens multiple times and accounts for like 200 receiving yards of his season. So his numbers are very, very faulty.
- [66:21]
Alfredo
I think I know the exact play you're talking about.
- [66:23]
Derek Brown
Oh, dude, I think it was like, versus. I forget. Oh, God. Like, I. There. But again, it's. It's going through and trying to get the context that you can find in film and marry that with the numbers and saying some of these things are true and build the most complete picture you can of a player. Whereas, like, dude, when I first started prospecting, like, I didn't look at deeper analytics. I wasn't watching all 22. And. And now, now I will not write up if I cannot find enough all 22 for a player. And I'm talking like five to six games. Like, usually at minimum, I'm not writing the player up. I'll just say all 22 is not available because I'm not going to make wide sweeping, like, generalities about a player. What they're good or they're not when you don't even have the sample size to even. You can't evaluate players like, like based off of highlight reels because, like, just going back to the Traylon Burke's experience, you could watch on the. The highlights and stuff, it shows the quarterback and then it shows him catching a bomb 55 yards down the field. But you don't see how that play developed, how he got open, the nuance to his routes. Was the corner just not great? Was the corner sitting back on his heels and he was gonna go man up and then all of a sudden got burnt. One misstep. Is that more not a win for the wide receiver, but the cornerback being subpar, just having a bad rep, you know, so, like, all of that context is missing. If you cannot watch all 22, you cannot evaluate running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, quarterbacks. You cannot evaluate any of these positions, truly, unless you even have that resource at your disposal. So a lot of this, like, it is night and day how I look at players, how I talk about players, and it's just changed, man. And some of the, like, boots on the Ground stuff. Why I love the Senior bowl and I love the combines freaking much, man. And you know this from doing your work as a scout at fiu. When you meet players too, it changes the context of how you, you evaluate a player to an extent too, and how you look at their game and talk about their game. And I'm so much more respectful when I talk about players now than like when, you know, when I first got into this industry. Because, you know, and this is kind of side tangenting, not just, this isn't so much process, but just like one of my pet peeves about stuff is at the end of the day, we're all people. We're all humans. And people read what you say and people hear what you say. And we, we all need to understand that, like, if you get upset when somebody trashes you online, and again, this is all just going to how my, my approach to prospects has changed. If you get upset as a content creator when somebody trashes you online or says things that aren't true or says things that are baseless or whatever. How do you think players feel about that? Like, they can't help if they're injured, they can't help if a guy rolled their ankle. Like, everybody's like, oh, you suck, you're a bust. You know, you're hurt all freaking year and stuff. Do you think any player really wants to be hurt? Do you think anybody wants to be collecting a game check even though they get paid tons of money? Anybody wants to be just feeling like they're, they're eating off a system and they're not contributing to their team, to their family, to their job and stuff like that? No, nobody wants do that, dude.
- [69:41]
Alfredo
We forget the humanity all the time.
- [69:43]
Derek Brown
Yes, you've thrown out the window and it's in. It's. It shouldn't be. Like, it should be at the core of how you're talking about players and discussing things. Like, you could say you're down on a prospect or you could say here are the areas. That's why, like, I don't talk about the things that players are bad at. Those are areas of growth or things that they can get better at in their game and framing it in that way. Because, yeah, I, again, we're all trying to get better at different parts of life. Whether that's talking about a game, how we talk about a game, or any other thing in between in their job or life as a person and discussing that thing in a respectful manner. You can talk about how you're down on a guy's skill set or a player and not do it in a manner which, like, is just crap, dude. It's just like the way, in the tone and the way that you're discussing things is horrible because if, if you heard somebody talked about you or one of your loved loved ones in the same manner, how would you feel? Right, right.
- [70:43]
Alfredo
That's like you mentioned here. It's one of those things where the human aspect of this gets so lost because so much of what we do is in an app or on a computer. It's, it's in spreadsheets, it's watching games. It's, it's stuff that you don't really experience that human element of it anymore.
- [71:00]
Derek Brown
And, or players are disgust as commodities. Like, I, I am one of the biggest assets I, I freaking. It makes my skin crawl. Alfredo. When people talk about, oh, I've got shares of a player. Don't, yeah, don't, don't, don't, don't say that. Just, just, just don't say that.
- [71:17]
Alfredo
Yeah.
- [71:19]
Derek Brown
I, I, I just can't, I can't.
- [71:22]
Alfredo
Yeah, man. There's one of my favorite ways, and I think this is a good segue into it. It's like one of my favorite ways to connect the humanity of what we actually do is to talk to the people that play it. And, and like, doing this in this interview is great because I get to talk to you and I really only get to see you like once or twice a year maybe.
- [71:38]
Derek Brown
Oh, because we go back into our content caves, dude.
- [71:41]
Alfredo
Yeah.
- [71:42]
Derek Brown
In January.
- [71:44]
Alfredo
So, like, what? One of the things I want to do here is we've got some audience questions for you people. People want to ask you some stuff. So yeah, I got questions.
- [71:54]
Derek Brown
Did you see Dave's response, by the way, before we get this?
- [71:57]
Alfredo
Yeah.
- [71:58]
Derek Brown
Did you actually have a show before this? Was that really just trolling? Okay.
- [72:02]
Alfredo
No, we actually, did. We actually. The thing is that he messed up too. He messed up too because he said that we were supposed to record at 9:00am Eastern, which he actually meant to say 9:00am Mountain Time. And like, we were just all messed up. Well, I was like, all right, man.
- [72:18]
Derek Brown
Real. We all know that, right, everyone? That's not a real time zone. Nobody actually, nobody actually lives in Mountain Time.
- [72:23]
Alfredo
Sorry to everyone in Mountain Time right now. That's the thumbs down are pouring in. All right, let's get to this question here from Jeremy, who is the fantasy football Reddit moderator who I meant.
- [72:36]
Derek Brown
But I love Jeremy, man. We do AMAs with, with, with them every single year. It's always a good experience, man.
- [72:44]
Alfredo
Jeremy's been the biggest supporter of this show, man. He's had a question for basically every single episode.
- [72:49]
Derek Brown
That's lovely.
- [72:49]
Alfredo
And his question here is broadly, where does the fantasy industry go from here? How do analysts continue to improve their accuracy and insights while serving the average fantasy gamer and navigate AI coming into the space?
- [73:06]
Derek Brown
I think there's so much that AI can help us with, but again, it's still an aggregating tool and it's still an efficiency. It, it's a tool in the tool belt, but it can't be your only tool in the tool belt. And I think one of the things that, you know, whether this is talking about just brands and stuff like that, that that gets lost in translation or it's missing and stuff is the human element and context and the ability to suss out things. You know, what leads to all of our, you know, I'm not saying the gut instinct, but the ingesting of information and regurgitating what our thoughts are and how that can influence ADP and players and just look at that forecasting. So like that's one of the things where I think the human element is really immensely important versus a where AI is a wonderful tool and it can help with your work, your research. There's so many things we implemented as a company on fantasy pros from Coach AI and Draft wizard and things like that in additions that can help people and be a great resource, but it can't be the only resource that you lean on. So I think like from a fantasy industry like that, it's kind of like weaving all that together. But I think honestly is meeting people where they're at, dude. And I don't want to sound like a, like a freaking politician giving this answer, but like what kind of content do people want? Can you take the, the really in depth analytical stuff and can you chew that up and spit that out into a medium where it's, it's quick and it's actionable because people where they're at nowadays in whether it's the content industry or people as just general consumers, you know, some people want the deeper dive, but they also want that in something where they can consume it at their leisure and it's not overwhelming and a lot of stuff. So like, you know, and I say all this and I write a 20 to 25,000 word article on a weekly basis during the season, but also like pumping that out in other formats where it's. If you wanted to just go down and grab the names and say this is what I want to do blindly. You can do that. Or if you wanted to watch a short on YouTube to understand, you know, my 600 word thesis on a player in 30 seconds, you know, so a lot of this is offering people a lot of different ways to consume content that's best for them and continuing to tweak that to where it's more shorts or more quick hitting things, you know, so it's a lot of just being variable and I think in this kind of climate where you have so many different attention spans and approaches to this game about a game where people just do want names to read, know who they're drafting, or quick, quick tidbits, you know, and, and making sure that you're covering all those different bases. I guess it all comes back to versatility and how you're presenting content and how you're talking about players. Players.
- [76:16]
Alfredo
Yeah, I love that answer. That's the, that's, I've heard good, bad indifference towards, you know, the AI thing. I, I think you're the first person that's really put it into the context of we're just giving people more options for what they want.
- [76:30]
Derek Brown
Yeah, right. Like you're just trying to add more tools to the belt, man. Like that's what we're all here. If we're teaching, then how can I best serve people? And this all comes back to like, I'm a big proponent of like all jobs and all walks come back to providing value. Like you have that job you have and I have the job I have because in one way, shape, form or fashion, we're providing value to the companies we work for. We're providing value to the people that take in our content. Watch, read, listen here, however, and how can you best do that and again, meet people where they are and how they want to consume that?
- [77:07]
Alfredo
Yeah, I mean, I'll let you know when I start bringing in value to anywhere. But I, I, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying, man. Next question on here comes from Smokey Nelson.
- [77:20]
Derek Brown
Oh, this ought to be interesting.
- [77:27]
Alfredo
Wants to know what's the beard product and the regimen that you follow?
- [77:31]
Derek Brown
Jeez, man. So I've got, I have a beer conditioner I use every single time I'm in the shower and stuff. I also have like a, that's in.
- [77:40]
Alfredo
Every, that's an every shower.
- [77:42]
Derek Brown
That's in every shower. Okay.
- [77:44]
Alfredo
Writing this down for when I go out there.
- [77:46]
Derek Brown
There's also not like a wax or whatever, but it's, it's like A conditioner and stuff like that. So I'm trying to remember the company beard. No free ads, something like.
- [78:01]
Alfredo
That's okay. No. So you don't say their name until they're a sponsor.
- [78:04]
Derek Brown
There you go. So I. I use. There's a beer conditioner I use in the shower. There's also not like a pomade, but, like, kind of like a beard oil thing that I use afterwards. And you got to have a good brusher call, man. Like it. You have to. Because if not, you got flyaways. You got all kinds of problems. That's why. Like, I either got a brush or I got a combination in the. The office every single time. And half the time, my problem on shows is I look down and I'm like, oh, good lord, what the heck is going on here, man? Like, I need to do some things. Like, I literally put out a. There was a clip put out of me yesterday, and I watched it. I was like, oh, geez, I need to, like, clean this thing up, man. Pull out the clippers. But no, there's a lot more, I think, that people assume, like, just because I don't have hair up here, that, like, this doesn't require any maintenance. This requires more maintenance than even up here when it did, so. Thanks, man.
- [78:57]
Alfredo
Well, now. Now, you know, I'm going to be inspecting your beard a lot more when we're. When we're in New York for that flex draft soon.
- [79:04]
Derek Brown
The most common comment about my beard these days, whether it's family or anybody else. Thank you. Shout out Joe. PCP of the last or last time, I think I said it's, dude, you have so much more gray in there than you used to. And I'm like, thanks, Thanks.
- [79:20]
Alfredo
I get it, too.
- [79:21]
Derek Brown
But it's true.
- [79:23]
Alfredo
I get it, too. I got. I got the grays.
- [79:26]
Derek Brown
I earned this. Okay? I earned this.
- [79:29]
Alfredo
This is life. I get my grays in the exact same spot. I keep it. I keep it a little more trimmed, but, man, I can't escape the. The hair. Like the temples. Yeah. Wife says she likes it, you know?
- [79:44]
Derek Brown
Yeah.
- [79:44]
Alfredo
I guess that's the only opinion that matters at this point. Why not? Some. Some random person? Not sure if you'll recognize the name here. I believe it's pronounced Rion. Warmelli is asking.
- [80:00]
Derek Brown
Did your best key appeal with that? That was perfect.
- [80:04]
Alfredo
So Rion is asking which coworker of yours has the best taste in movies.
- [80:12]
Derek Brown
It's definitely not Worm. It is. I can 100.
- [80:15]
Alfredo
What's wrong with his taste in movies? What is it? What Is he into.
- [80:18]
Derek Brown
Dude, we are. We are so. Because he. He comes from, like, I think Worm thinks that he's, like, a movie connoisseur or reviewer.
- [80:25]
Alfredo
Does he think he's like, an art house guy?
- [80:27]
Derek Brown
Very much a. A Roger. And he's gonna hate this if he ever sees this or hears this, but that's Worm. I'd say it to your face. You know, I hate your taste in movies. He comes from, like, the, like. Like, he's a Roger and Ebert, kind of like, you know, film reviewer, and he gets way deep, and I'm like, dude, sometimes it's just not that deep. Like, it's an action movie. It's. It's fine. Or whatever, dude, It's Die Hard 6. You're not working for Rotten Tomatoes, homie. Like, it's okay. You don't have to go into. Like, we could just take it for what it is. Like, some things are just good. Like, I came out and I had a tweet about it, and this is where this Conscious. Just, like, he's like. I was like, dude, I. Superman was effing awesome. I love the movie. Love so many parts of it. Love the messaging. I love all the little Easter eggs. I loved it. And Worm hits my comments because I knew it was coming, dude. I knew as soon as I pressed 10, Worm couldn't. I was either getting a text or a slack or a reply, and he goes. I mean, it was really. It was good. I mean, I was like, oh, Worm, go. Get out. Come on.
- [81:30]
Alfredo
Come on, man.
- [81:30]
Derek Brown
Get out. Get out. So, Worm, I love you to death, man. Movies. No, just not for you, man. Not for you. Yeah.
- [81:39]
Alfredo
By the way, Superman, I've seen it twice. I'm going for us, dude.
- [81:42]
Derek Brown
I want to go. I want to go again. I want to go. I'm so. I'm so.
- [81:46]
Alfredo
The rewatch ability is there.
- [81:48]
Derek Brown
I. And it's.
- [81:49]
Alfredo
It won.
- [81:50]
Derek Brown
So I never got. And I don't. I know you've probably watched this, so don't. Don't trash me. I never got a chance to watch, like, Lois and Clark, and so, like, I want to go back and watch Lois and Clark now. Like, I don't want to go back and watch Smallville. Like, there's a lot of things, like, I will not go back and watch Batman vs Superman or man of Steel. Deal. No, Zach Snyder, you suck. But, like, I want to go back and watch other parts of Superman, like Lois and Clark, where there's a lot of difference to the storytelling, and it was done extremely well. Like, it's it's leading me down a rabbit hole with all of this stuff because the movie was so well done and on so many different levels that you can just. Just take that movie in and just. Just pick it apart piece by piece.
- [82:35]
Alfredo
Dude, I love. I'm a big animation guy. I love all the, like, D.C. animated stuff, the Superman series. That's what it felt like. This felt like a. Yeah, yeah. But they gave him so off topic.
- [82:46]
Derek Brown
It gave him the same kind of, like, humanity, and they went more. And that was one of the things I hated what Snyder did is because he made him so gruff and dark and serious. And it was like, if you go watch any of, like, you read the comics, you go back and watch any of the animated stuff. Superman was equal parts serious, but he was also like. He was so much of a goof, too, because he was so much like, almost like, what was that movie with Brendan Fraser Blast from the past where he's, like, locked in the time capsule and he's, like, not exposed to the realities of. Of. Of today and stuff like that, where Superman just seems, like, clueless. Like, there's parts where like. Like. Like Batman and Superman going into a room, I think it was with Deadshot. And, like, they go to, like, out of the Animated Series, they go to, like, interrogate him. And Superman's like, I'm gonna be bad cop this time. And Batman's like, okay. And he just fumbles the bag and he's like. Just like. He's like, yeah, we're gonna. We're not gonna let you do that and just being so, like, awkward about it and stuff. There were so many parts of that conveyed in this movie where it was like, the previous iterations of Superman weren't like that. There wasn't a warmth to the character. There was like, yeah, it just absolutely missed the true of, like, the true essence of Superman. That. That didn't come out, you know?
- [84:08]
Alfredo
Yeah, it's. It's.
- [84:09]
Derek Brown
I.
- [84:09]
Alfredo
What I loved about this. And, like, this is so freaking off. What I love about this movie was like, we're like an hour or something in. Okay, if you're listening at this point.
- [84:19]
Derek Brown
It'S not a short show. You. No, you set this up. You asked me on. So you knew we were gonna talk. Talk for a long time.
- [84:25]
Alfredo
I'm good. I'm good. What I loved with this movie was they focused on the man and the humanity of. Of Cal Clark and, like, what. Actually, he can't be a good version of Superman. He can't be a superhero. A Hero to people if he does not understand people and identify with them. And that was something like the other one, man of Steel, which like, I remember watching it the first time, I was like, okay, this is kind of cool, right? Like you got the big punches and all the big action. It was so like Alien based and Krypton based and, and everything else. And it was all about like, what separated him from humanity. This one really, this is the first time that Superman felt cool, he felt likable, he felt relatable. And like, we just haven't had that in such a long time.
- [85:08]
Derek Brown
Well, and the other part that I think, like, oh God, turn this off. Like, if you don't want spoilers and stuff like that, turn this off right now.
- [85:17]
Alfredo
Wait, wait. Really quick. Spoiler alerts.
- [85:20]
Derek Brown
Superman alerts. If you've not seen Superman, do not fast forward through this. Do not listen to this part.
- [85:26]
Alfredo
By the time this comes out, man, it's. The movie would have been out for a while.
- [85:29]
Derek Brown
I just. I. Small tangent. I hate spoilers. I cannot. There is a reason why. And I will own this. Why? Well, Sean McCoy will always be blocked on every social media platform that I have. I, I cannot deal with the, the d baggery of ruining movies for anybody. Especially when you've watched a franchise over years and years and years and you are ingrained into a storyline that's like telling the somebody like the, the ending of their favorite book. Like, come on, man. Like, that's a certain type of evil. Like, I know, I know we're talking about movies and stuff like that, but that's just being a jerk. But getting back to it, like, spoiler alert. I love how like with the messaging of his parents and stuff, it's. It also drove home the point that we all have a choice to make. Your parents, your circumstances, all these things do not define who you are as a person. And your goals and your hopes and your, Your drive and why you do the things that you do. Those things are all intrinsic. And the fact that like they flip that on its head because if you go watch man of Steel, it was all the Russell Crowe, like, they'll chase behind you and you will be a symbol and you will be a thing for hope and, and all this kind of like. And that's like, oh, well, like, that's my driving force.
- [86:48]
Alfredo
It was destiny.
- [86:50]
Derek Brown
That's. It's meant to be. And I'm, I'm carrying on my parents legacy. It was like, no, like, I choose to be who I am. I choose to care about the Things that I care about, and I choose to be a symbol for these things, and I choose to be a positive impact on the world because that's what I choose. And I thought that was so, so important and probably would get lost in translation or lost that. That. That. That in point of that movie will get lost on a lot of people watching it.
- [87:22]
Alfredo
It's. I'm so excited for the DC Universe. That's. Dude, it's.
- [87:26]
Derek Brown
It's so good. Just all the parts and pieces, like, whether you want to talk. Them picking a lantern and it being guy over Hal Jordan. Like, all these parts where you're just like, oh, it's so good, dude.
- [87:39]
Alfredo
It's just great. It's just. I can't wait for all the upcoming shows and the movies and everything that's. I'm a DC kid at heart, like that.
- [87:46]
Derek Brown
Oh, dude. Like, I love dc. A lot of it's just been. Just crushed with bad production and bad writing and. And the stories of certain characters just told just. Just in a really, really poor manner to where it's like, what is the aim of this? Or you're just taking certain parts of this character and just blowing it out of proportion because you want comedic spots. And it's like, what are we doing here?
- [88:14]
Alfredo
My buddy, you know, Jagger may, like, he said a lot of what happened with Zack Snyder is like. Zack Snyder tries to make cool movies. He sort of makes the monster energy drink of. Of hero movies.
- [88:24]
Derek Brown
Yes.
- [88:25]
Alfredo
Where it's like, it appeals to a certain crowd that it looks cool. And it's got, like, a. A certain camera flash.
- [88:30]
Derek Brown
He's trying to turn everything into 300. It's like Superman, but 300 style. Like. Yeah, it's almost like the. The. Try too hard. Like, did you just. Trying too hard? Like, it's not that deep. Like, just tell the story. It really isn't.
- [88:48]
Alfredo
Yeah. All right, last question out here, because we've gone on way too long about Superman. It's the last question from Eric Moody.
- [88:58]
Derek Brown
I love Moody. Moody's one of my favorite people.
- [89:01]
Alfredo
He is saying, please ask Derek if he'd be open for getting together for lunch before the start of the NFL season.
- [89:07]
Derek Brown
I gotta text. I'll text Moody as soon as we get off of here. Moody and I have not kept up nearly as much as I would like. That's one of the great things about being the DFW area. There's so many people that live close to here. You know, that. That if we all weren't all in our. I mean, dude. Because we're all. We all have our own daily lives. Whether. Because I know Eric's got young kids, too. It's like the kids, the job, the everything and stuff where you just, like, you kind of get swept up and stuff. Moody and I are gonna have to go get. Last time we met up, we had beers and barbecue and stuff like that at a local BBQ place close to my house. So, no, I'm gonna have to text Moody as soon as I get off of here and be like, all right, man, you call down the thunder. When are we meeting up for food?
- [89:55]
Alfredo
Well, I'm excited to do because we're gonna meet up really soon in New York, and by the time this.
- [89:59]
Derek Brown
Oh, you're being in flex, you're in flat. Yeah, man. Yeah, dude, let's go. Dude, did you forget?
- [90:05]
Alfredo
I saw. I saw you, like, two years ago in flex. And last year, too, right? Did you go last year?
- [90:11]
Derek Brown
You make a lot. No, I. Okay, so I didn't go last year because a long.
- [90:15]
Alfredo
Okay, I'm about to say I really didn't make an impression.
- [90:17]
Derek Brown
Long story that I was. Will. I will condense really quickly. I got screwed over on my flight. The plane left. I didn't leave. Well, no, my plane didn't leave, but my bag somehow made it to Newark, but I didn't. So thank you, American Airlines, but no, I. I was stuck at the airport for 14 hours, dude, waiting. Like, I kept getting delayed and delayed and delayed, and then they canceled all.
- [90:41]
Alfredo
I remember hearing about that. Yeah, Joe was.
- [90:43]
Derek Brown
I was on the phone with Joe and Sealy, and I'm like, dude, I. I. I could fly in, like, tomorrow, but it's not gonna be because I was supposed to fly in, like, Friday. I was like, I could fly in tomorrow, but I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna totally miss the draft. It's on. It's pointless for me to even come up there now because of one like, dude, like, the. The flights for the next morning were, like fifteen hundred dollars or something. I was like, well, that's ridiculous. Not doing that. Okay, like, why don't you just tell me you don't have a flight available for me? Because that's predict. And so, yeah, it was a lot of flight stuff. So, no, I didn't make it to flex last year. I was drafting at home instead of in person in nyc. But you weren't there the year before, were you? Or were you? And I'm just. Okay, yeah, then maybe I was.
- [91:26]
Alfredo
This is gonna be year three for me. That was my first year going up there.
- [91:30]
Derek Brown
I remember first year that I went up there, like it was. Honestly, it felt like everything was just kind of like an outer body experience, you know, like, like getting to meet everybody for the first time and stuff like that. Like I remember all of our times at of kind Canton. That's where like I, I like you, me and big chopping it up, dude. Like that, that's, that's what I remember of all of our interactions, dude. Because that was that. And again, we will be back in Canton this year. So much freaking fun, dude.
- [91:54]
Alfredo
Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm excited. I can't wait to see you in person. This was awesome having you on the show. I mean like I, I got enriched just by hanging out with you. But like I know that our audience, they got to learn something. They got to see a new side of you. DBRO and I hope they just enjoyed the conversation, man. Like that's what we're here to do. It's just bridge that gap between what we do and the people playing, man. I can't thank you enough for joining me here today and the audience watching, listening. Can't thank you guys enough for watching to listen all the way through for myself, for Derek. I'll see you next time. Adios.
- [92:35]
Derek Brown
Foreign.
- [92:40]
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