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Footballguys Fantasy Football Show
Week 12 Rankings, Sleepers, and Streamers || Fantasy Football 2025
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- [00:58]
B
NMLS 696891 concerts do it for me. I don't know why music, musical theater just never really has for whatever reason. Like, like I said, even the Book of Mormon, which, like, I love Matt Stone, love Trey Parker, love their humor. I saw it and I was just like, yeah, that was okay. Like, would have been better as a movie.
- [01:20]
A
So a lot of these two are always really good when they have their original cast. So, like, I know I saw Wicked as a kid in New York. I had no desire to go see it. Like, I did not want to go see this. I remember distinctly, like, my mom, I have the picture my mom took. It was back. I was a big sports basketball fan, like, everything manly. And I'm wearing my Detroit Pistons NBA Champions shirt. I'm like, really excited for all the sports stuff there. And then she's like, yep, but we're gonna go see a musical. And I was like, no. And she's like, well, it's about the Wicked witch from the wizard of Oz. I'm like, double no. I don't want to see that. And I go. And I just, I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And like, that, that actually opened up. I went and ended up seeing Phantom of the Opera and Book of Mormon. And you know, you do like all the other ones too, like Aladdin and a bunch of the other things that have been there for a long time. It became a really cool date night thing for me and Gabby because in South Florida they have two big, like, musical amphitheaters, Fort Lauderdale and Miami. So there's always all the big shows that go there, like, seeing Hamilton, like, it's just. It's awesome. It's such a cool experience.
- [02:24]
B
My office, when I worked in Chicago, was in the theater district, so, I mean, I've been to so many shows. It's not that I.
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A
Like, if you had. If you had to pick a favorite.
- [02:36]
B
You know, it's funny, I know you said it's like a boring one.
- [02:38]
A
I just asked the child to pick their favorite vegetable, cheese.
- [02:42]
B
I like. Blame is just like, the. The entire production was really cool. Like, especially the. Where they've got the barricade. Like, the war scene. Like, that was one of the cooler things I think I've seen on a stage. Yeah, it's. It's weird, too. I love music. Like, I have such an emotional response to music, and I listen to, like, all sorts of music for whatever reason. Theater is it. I don't know.
- [03:08]
A
Do you think it's because, like, you're having to see them, like, act it out that almost, like, doesn't do it for you? You'd rather them just be there performing as, like, a band almost?
- [03:18]
B
I think that's it. I don't know. And it's weird. Like, my brother was in theater and, like, you know, I'd go to all his shows and support him. My wife, she was in theater. Like, she loves going to shows, and we have been to countless shows together. I'm just more of a concert guy than a musical theater guy, you know, I like movies.
- [03:34]
A
You're like Gordon Ramsay. He. His favorite meal to eat is a Smash burger with nothing else on it. Just a Smash Burger with cheese. Nothing else on it. No. No dressings, no, like, sauces. None of that. That's you. You just want the music. You don't need all the frills and the popping, circumstance and potatoes type of guy.
- [03:54]
B
You know that?
- [03:56]
A
Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah.
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B
You're.
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A
You're a black coffee head banging meat and potatoes kind of fella, but.
- [04:02]
B
So you say, like, head banging and. Yeah, I do. Like, I love metal music, but I also. Like, a few days ago, I was writing, and as I was writing, I was listening to a live Nina Simone album that literally broke tears. So it's not like, just like. And that's the thing. Like, I have extremely emotional responses to.
- [04:19]
A
Music, but so not a psych. Good.
- [04:22]
B
Right? But, like, for whatever reason, when I'm in, like, I don't know, something about, like. I don't know. I can't explain it. I've tried to figure it out. Like, I love music. Like, I cry to music at least once a week, but I just don't have that emotional response when I'm in a theater.
- [04:39]
A
This podcast, Big supporter of the arts. Just want to say that. Big supporter. Yeah, we love music.
- [04:45]
B
Yeah, yeah. City in Color, another brand that, like, band that, like, brings me to tears almost every time I listen to him. Elliot Smith brings me to tears. Like, I, I have such emotional responses to music, but it's just never happened in a theater. You know, my wife listens to show tunes all the time and it just, like, doesn't resonate with me the way some other music does.
- [05:05]
A
So you're gonna go see Wicked on Friday?
- [05:08]
B
We've got tickets to go see Phantom of the Opera and Wicked in January. Yes, we go to a lot of shows.
- [05:13]
A
Oh, no. But like the movie, you're gonna go see the movie, right?
- [05:15]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, I am.
- [05:17]
A
Yeah.
- [05:17]
B
Tomorrow night we're going to see. Going to see Wicked. Yep.
- [05:21]
A
If anyone is at the same theater as Dave, let us know. If he's crying into his popcorn, I have a feeling. It's week 12. We're taking a look at which players to start and which players are the sleepers. There's a lot of tough decisions being made right now. Players that are on bye weeks, players that are on injuries, reserve. And Dave, it's getting harder now that we're getting closer to the playoffs. We think we know a lot about these players. And then there's shifts in the starting lineups, there's shifts in usage, there's drop offs in play. There's players that are now playing at such a high level they can't be ignored. So like we do every single week, we are going to go through our top running backs and wide receivers to help you guys make the best decisions possible. Welcome in to the Football Guys Fantasy Football show. I'm Alfredo Brown, joined as always by Dave Kluge. Dave, let's, let's not waste any time. Let's hop right into the running backs, shall we?
- [06:20]
B
Yeah, and we always do this like we just can glance through the first dozen or so names like you're set them and forget them. Like, we don't need to do a podcast telling you guys to start Christian McCaffrey and Jonathan Daler.
- [06:32]
A
But we could, we could just do 60 minutes on why you should start these players and it'll be very informative. So let's do that. Let's go. Running backs one through six. This is tier number one. Christian McCaffrey, Jonathan Taylor, Jameer Gibbs, Bijan. Robinson, Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry. Saquon Barkley. We talked about him a little bit yesterday, but it feels nice to have some faith again in Saquon, right? To be slightly comfortable with him again.
- [06:57]
B
Yeah, he's breaking tackles, breakaway runs. All the things that we like that weren't happening early in the year are now happening over the second half of the year. So, yeah, I mean, not like you were thinking about benching Saquon Barkley, but just a set and forget RB1. Like, if there's one guy that we could talk about in this tier that, like, maybe we feel a little bit shaky about Bijan Robinson with no Michael Penix, like just the overall offense, no Drake London, you know, threat as the receiving game. But, like, what is this? This is paralysis by over analysts. If we just tell you, like, not to start Bijan Robinson, you're still starting him, but maybe we're looking at like a, a slightly lower ceiling.
- [07:33]
A
Right, let's go to the next tier. This is running backs seven through 13. We got at seven, Rico Dowdle, then James Cook, Javante Williams, Kyron Williams, Trevion Henderson, Chase Brown and Ashton Jinty. And I kind of went up an octave when I said Trevion Henderson because we do have the reports that Ramandre Stevenson looking like he'll be back. There was a quote yesterday. I wish I had it in front of me, but the for the gist of the quote from Mike Vrabel was, trevian's helped us a lot when he's been on the field. Ramondre has helped us a lot when he's been on the field. Terrell has helped us a lot when he's been on the field. We're going to have all of these guys help us when they're on the field.
- [08:08]
B
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly the quote. Trayvon's helped us, Ramandre's helped us, Terrell's helped us. We have to try and have them all help us is the quote.
- [08:16]
A
It stood out because I was like, oh, no, we're back. They gave it to us, they took it away.
- [08:25]
B
And that's the tough thing. And you know, I said it would be like borderline irresponsible for them to just put Treveon Henderson back into the exact role that he had pre Ramadre Stevenson injury. But Stevenson's going to be involved. We know this like, this is the Patriot way, this is the Mike Rabel way, this is the Josh McDaniels way. They're going to have a committee approach that Being said, it sounds like Radre Stevenson optimistic that whole play still practicing in a limited fashion. I don't think he's going to be a full go in this matchup. So even if he is back, I'd say whatever touch split we see this week probably isn't going to be indicative of what we'll see for the rest of the season. I think Ramadre Stevenson still is going to have this kind of like ramp up a little bit. But you look at this matchup against Cincinnati, the best matchup you could have as a running back. So I think that you're starting Travion Henderson with the utmost confidence. And even if you do have Radre Stevenson still looking at him as like a borderline flex play this week.
- [09:17]
A
And we'll talk more about Ramandre Stevenson as well. But yeah, Trayon Anderson, I think it still becomes kind of an auto start for you, especially after these couple weeks. As we've seen, it only takes a couple plays for him to really show his worth in a fantasy football lineup. The matchup's great, so don't overthink it.
- [09:33]
B
One other thing I'll say about Trayvon Henderson is like there's a lot, there's this narrative that like he's only good on outside inside runs. And I was watching and I'm like, he's pretty good on inside runs. Like, he can get skinny and like everyone's like, oh, it's perfectly blocked because he just shoots 20 yards downfield in the blink of an eye untouched. But like he is really good at finding those creases and getting skinny through him. And I looked at some of the data over at pff. Like, look between the tackles, look between the ends. He's averaging a better success rate. More yards after contact, more overall yards per attempt. Like he is better between the tackles on inside inside runs than Ramadre Stevenson is, which I think would be really surprise a lot of people.
- [10:09]
A
Well, Travon's been better on outside runs this season because the Patriots themselves are better on outside runs because that's where they've got some of their better blockers. They can get their tight ends out in space. Their wide receivers, Mack Hollands great blocker, Will Campbell, they can get him out in space running and sealing off edges. Right now what I've been seeing is when Travion's trying to get these runs, he's having to avoid tacklers in the backfield. Like there's, I think it was on one of his touchdown runs last week. He had to avoid three different defenders in the backfield to then get into back to the line of scrimmage and then his teammates pushed the pile. It was just such, such an effort for like 6 yards and a touchdown. It's insane. But that's the only kind of thing you get out of a running back who can actually make plays like that and be shaped like that. So yeah, let's not over saturate the narrative that a guy can't run in between the tackles. Let's go to the next tier. This is going to be running backs 14 through 21. This is tier three. Here we've got Quinshon Judkins, Deandre Swift, Travis Etienne, Breece Hall, Jalen Warren. Remember, we're treating this as if Jalen Warren is playing this week. Woody Marks, Aaron Jones, and Ken Walker iii. I think this is the highest we've seen Ken Walker in a bit and we're starting to get a little more faith there. Dave, who stands out to you here? I've got a couple names that I want to talk about, but who stands out to you in this one?
- [11:23]
B
Quinchad Judkins. We know he's good, but this Browns offense is not good. And it's really hard to overcome a bad situation when no matter how talented a running back is. Like we have seen superstar running backs, we've seen down years from Saquon Barkley and Bijon Robinson because like it's just the offensive environment around them is not good. And I do fear that that's where Quintean Judkins is stealing this straight from a Reddit ama. The other day somebody said, you know, hey, it seems like lately we've seen a lot more Quinton Dudkins than Quinshon Studkins. And I told him I was going to steal that for the show, but it's true. Like he's averaging like he hasn't scored more than 10 points in each of the last three games. It's tough because you want to put him out there, but you couple the recent cold streak that we've seen with an expected start from Shador Sanders, that could be offset by a good matchup against Las Vegas. I mean, you just gotta find a way to get him in your lineup. But it's become very frustrating over the last month.
- [12:18]
A
It would be the most fantasy football NFL thing for the Browns to have a phenomenal week. After all of the dumping that has taken place in Shooter Sanders and the Browns and everything, for them to come out and score 30 against the the Raiders just make this a thing.
- [12:30]
B
And I Almost wonder if their game plan is just going to be like, okay, Max Crosby's lined up here, we're going to run it the opposite direction. And like that's, that's what I'm doing if I'm calling plays here is just running the ball opposite from Max Crosby every chance I can and trying to take as much of the air out of the ball as possible.
- [12:45]
A
And that's what a lot of teams do end up doing against the Raiders anyway. So it wouldn't surprise me there. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of let's get easy check down plays to get the ball out of Shadir's hands quickly. So you could end up with quick passes to Quinshawn, to Dylan Sampson, to Harold Fannin, to a lot of these guys out here. Instead of trying to make Shadura go through all these multiple reads and progressions. Dave, couple other guys in here that stand out to me. Woody Marks, I think we're at that point where he's arrived. He's arrived. This is such a good matchup. There's no more questions about is he the guy in Houston anymore. Going up against the Bills just giving up a ton of points to fantasy running backs. We just saw Sean Tucker run all over them. Eight running backs have hit 12 and a half plus PPR points versus Buffalo this season. It's just been an absolute nightmare for them, especially over the last two weeks with A Chan and Tucker. So we're talking about big play guys that can also do things in the receiving game. Marks is that kind of player. I think he's got an elite match up here, if we're being quite honest. And even though he's normally more of like a low end RB2, I think the matchup pushes him up into kind of high end RB2 territory this week.
- [13:53]
B
Yeah, and it's kind of weird. I dug into this. Like you see all the points the Buffalo Bills are giving up to running backs and I assumed it was a lot of through the air latent games when teams are trailing. No, it's the complete opposite. Like they are seventh best when it comes to receiving yards against running backs. They're just getting gashed on the ground. So we expect. I mean, it's always tough talking about the Thursday Night Football game on an episode that comes out on Thursday because we could really quickly end up eating our words for anybody who watches the show tomorrow morning. But like, this is a good, good matchup and I know a lot of people are holding on to Woody Marks and they're not sure when they can start him and when they can't start him. If you've got Woody Marks and you aren't starting him this week, just drop him. Because like, when are you going to start him? If you aren't starting this matchup, you.
- [14:33]
A
Don'T deserve them anyways. If you're not starting him this week, he wasn't meant for you. All right, anyone else from this tier? I got a couple other names that, that are interesting to me. There are a lot of the, the veterans here.
- [14:44]
B
Jalen Ward is the one I want to talk about. Seems like he might still be dealing with this ankle injury a little bit. He downplayed it after the game, but has been limited in practice. Sounds like we're seeing a lot more of Caleb Johnson and a lot more Kenneth Gainwell at practice right now. So, like if he is a full participant on Friday and activated, you're starting him, but pay close attention to what he's able to do in practice today and tomorrow.
- [15:08]
A
Yeah, I would definitely keep your eyes on that, I would say.
- [15:12]
B
Because if he's out, Gainwell immediately becomes a top 20 guy, right?
- [15:16]
A
Yeah, yeah. Especially with Mason Rudolph under center. If, if he's doing that man like he is, check down King for the Steelers. And we saw that even last week with Kenneth Gainwell. He came in and was just catching passes non stop. If he's still available in waivers, absolutely. Go out and stash him. Caleb Johnson just, just want to throw that out there. Not that anything could happen this week, but crazy things have happened.
- [15:41]
B
I'm not putting him in my lineups anywhere. But yeah, I think you know so much. What we saw with Jalen Warren and Kenneth Gainwell is because they had this like decrepit 41 year old quarterback out there that they were terrified was going to get hit. And I think that when you get him out of the game and you get Mason Rudolph in there, you know, Caleb Johnson kind of fits in with the power run scheme that we know Mike Tomlin likes. So we don't know if Aaron Rodgers is going to miss time, but definitely, you know, Caleb Johnson is available in so many leagues out there. Just like pick him up, stash him on your bench and kind of see what happens with Mason Rudolph.
- [16:13]
A
Yeah, a couple other guys I know I mentioned Ken Walker earlier. We're finally seeing him getting the, the. I don't want to say the lion's share, but the majority of the touches, at least within this, within this backfield and going up against Tennessee they're 25th against running backs. In fantasy seven, running backs have hit at least have hit nearly 15 PPR points. So Ken Walker, we know he's got the big playability. We're actually seeing him get used in the goal line opportunities. Now, once again, head coach Mike McDonald is coming out here.
- [16:41]
B
Vulture and Zach Charbonnet, what a terrible.
- [16:44]
A
What a, what a plot twist. M. Night Shyamalan coaching the Seahawks here. Mike McDonald has said like he's earned more opportunities. Okay, I mean we've heard it before, but at this point I just. What do you have to lose? You drafted Ken Walker. You were starting him on the weeks where there wasn't a lot of upside and now there is upside and there does look like there's opportunity. This is, this is where you've got to be putting them in your lineups.
- [17:08]
B
Yeah, and I know it's frustrating for fantasy managers, but it's just better for the Seahawks when they have two running backs who have complementary skill sets that can do different things and allow each other to stay fresh when they do come in the game. So yeah, it's a headache for fantasy managers, but I don't expect it to change. Like maybe instead of a 5050 split, we see a 6040 split. But anyone thinks that Ken Walker is just running away with this backfield, I don't think that's going to happen. I think there's still going to be a decent amount of Zach Charbonnet out there. I almost said Radre Stevenson. You know, it's the, the same thing.
- [17:36]
A
Freudian slip, a couple other gu throw out there. Aaron Jones, David Montgomery, these are both quality RB2 starts this week. I wouldn't be overthinking those. Especially Aaron Jones. He's really taken over that backfield. He's, he's, honestly, at this point he might be the best offensive weapon on the Vikings considering the, the way that their offense is running at the moment.
- [17:56]
B
With J.J. mcCarthy, I'm a sucker for a good revenge game too. And you got a Aaron Jones going back into Lambo. I think he's going to be playing a little bit harder. Not that he's ever like phoning it in, but you know, a little extra motivation in this matchup.
- [18:10]
A
And you got to think too, they might be wanting to get him the ball a little bit more if that's the case as well. Like that is a real thing. Also, David Montgomery for the lions. They are 10 point favorites going up against the Giants. So if the Lions do have a lead and they're running this Clock out.
- [18:23]
B
And Dan Campbell, ever since he took over Blake Holland, we're seeing a lot more David Montgomery. So John Morton, you know, he was just kind of turning Jameer Gibbs into this Bell cow. But David Montgomery has been more involved. I mean, what we've seen from Dan Campbell, I think the reason he wanted to take over Blake hauling is he said, Jameson Williams, David Montgomery, they're not doing what they should be doing. I'm going to play calling and make sure these guys are involved.
- [18:45]
A
Let's go down to the next tier. This is tier number three. Actually. Wait, I can't count. That's tier number four. And this is going to be running backs 22 through 31. Alvin Camara, Dave Montgomery, who we just spoke about. Emmanuel Wilson, Tyrone Tracy, Zachary, Kareem Hunt, Kenneth Gainwell, Bashal Tuton, Taji Spears, Ramandre Stevenson. Dave, I know we already mentioned David Montgomery. I think Emmanuel Wilson becomes the interesting guy to talk about here, here. I've been very conflicted on Emmanuel Wilson this week because I get it, he's going to be getting a lot of the carries here. But we also might see Chris Brooks get involved. And that's something that LaFleur has talked about. And I know that's something that they. That the packers offense has done in the past, which is have sort of a split backfield that changed when they brought in Josh Jacobs. I look at this matchup. Minnesota Vikings have been really good lately against running backs. None of the starting running backs they've faced over the last three weeks have gone over 12 PPR points. That coincidentally coincides with Andrew Van Ginkel being back in the lineup for the defense, which is a big chess move for Brian Flores. And the packers offense has been actually. So you watch it and you don't realize how bad the offense has been. Maybe you do, but when you put the numbers to it, they've been the second lowest scoring offense in the NFL over the last three weeks, tied with the Tennessee Titans, who we all just kind of see as one of the worst teams in the NFL. But they're behind the Raiders, they're behind the Browns, they're behind the Broncos. They're behind a bunch of teams that have been out here just looking horrible on a weekly basis. I'm worried. I'm worried that we could be looking at a trap game going up against the good defense with a bad offense and a backup running back that we don't know what the work share is. I do get a little nervous with this one. He's on that low end, RB2, high end, RB3 border for me.
- [20:33]
B
Me. Yeah. And it's just the packers are such a weird offense to get a read on because like I say, they're a low scoring offense. They don't look especially good when we watch them on tv. But then you start looking at some of like the advanced data and they're fourth in the league in EPA per play. Like, the only offenses that EPA has ranked ahead of them are the Colts, Bills and Chiefs. So like it is this very polarizing discussion about Packers.
- [20:57]
A
It's the ends of drives, it's the turnovers, it's the sacks. Like, it's just, it's rough and they.
- [21:02]
B
Make these explosive plays and they've got a strong run game. But it just like hasn't really translated into the general success that we want to see. So I mean, I'm still like, if Josh Jacobs misses Emanuel Wilson, you know, falls inside RB2 category for me. But it wouldn't surprise me if Josh Jacobs is back this week. And I don't know for sure, but like we have seen Josh Jacobs is an ironman. Like this dude plays through. I can't tell you how many times we have planned all week to be like, all right, Josh Jacobs is out this week. Get your zoom, Samir White or your whoever ready to plug in. And then it's just like, oh, Josh Jacobs practice in full on Friday, or Josh Jacobs doesn't practice on Friday, then somehow like still gets activated on game day. Like Josh Jacobs, when he's a game dime decision, typically plays through it. So I know there's a lot of excitement about Emmanuel Wilson, but I'm gonna be paying very close attention to what Josh Jacobs does because this dude is just tough.
- [21:51]
A
If Josh Jacobs starts, where do you have him? Because I think I'd probably have him around running back 11 to 13 in that range where I have Trevion, Chase Brown and Ashton James.
- [22:01]
B
Yeah, he'd be my running back 13 in between Chase Brown and Ashton Ginty. So ahead of Ashton Ginty behind Chase Brown. And that's only because of risk of re injury or that explosiveness isn't there. But like, you know, fully healthy. Josh Jacobs is inside my top seven. I just exercised a little bit of caution coming off the injury.
- [22:21]
A
Another guy from this tier is at the top of the tier that I think a lot of fantasy managers have had struggles with this season. Alvin Camara going up against the Falcons this week. I don't want to say that we're back with Alvin Camara because I don't know that quite yet. But this is a game script where, dare I say, the Saints might actually lead in in this game. Like there might be a time where they can just run the football. Well against the Falcons, who are 29th against fantasy running backs, it's the, they're the worst team in the NFL against running backs. Since week seven. They're ranked 32nd fantasy points allowed to running backs. Alvin Camara's had a better game in previous weeks here. Now with Ty Chuck running the offense, you have Kirk Cousins out there. You have no Drake London out there. You have a Falcons offense that can't score. I mean, Dave, there seems like there is actually a, a world here where the Saints are leading this game and just controlling the clock from the Falcons.
- [23:16]
B
Yeah, and I mean, we saw an 80, 20 split last week between Alvin. Not last week, two weeks ago between Alvin Camara and Devin Neal, we saw 25 touches going Alvin Camara's way. So if we're looking at, you know, a, a hurting defense with an offense that isn't going to be able to score much, what we assume, you know, Kirk Cousins led Falcons offense, this is a good matchup for Alvin Camara. So I know there was a lot of talk about benching him and dropping him a few weeks ago, but it seems like after the trade deadline, like, I don't know if that's maybe what they were doing is like kind of keeping him a little bit fresher in hopes that, like, he could be healthy at the trade deadline in case a team did come calling. And I'm wondering if nobody called for Alvin Camara because of his comments about retiring if team tried to trade for him. But I almost wonder if some of that, like, lack of usage that we saw leading up to the trade deadline was them trying to keep him as fresh and healthy as possible. And now that they made it through the trade deadline, they're just like, all right, Alvin Camara back to being a workhorse running back. So, yeah, you know, we're both ranking him as a starter this week, even though it definitely felt a little sketchy a month ago.
- [24:15]
A
Another guy in this tier. And we kind of need to talk through the scenarios here. If there's no Jaylen Warren this week for the Steelers and Kenneth Gainwell is out there, how high would you rank Kenneth Gainwell? Because this is. I know that the Bears are like, they're decent against running backs, but Kenneth Gainwell, when there is no Jaylen Warren, he's a PPR machine, 31 points in week four, 29 and a half points in week 11. I mean, he's just, he's almost like a lock for top 12 when Jalen Warren is out. So I, I, that I asked the question is, would you actually rank him there or is he probably somewhere a little lower?
- [24:51]
B
Yeah, a little bit lower. Just because a lot of that production that we've seen in the two games without Jalen Warren, he scored five touchdowns in those two games. He had three games in the three touchdowns in the overseas game, scored two last week. I will say the first touchdown last week came in the first quarter before Jalen Warren got injured. So we were seeing him a little bit involved. I, I do prefer Jalen Warren just because I think that he is the, the more talented of the two backs or I've got Jalen Warren right now at RB19. If he had to miss, you know, actually I'd probably put him right there because we expect Jalen Warren to seed some work to Kenneth Gainwell. Kenneth Gainwell's not going to be seeding any passing down work to anybody. So I think I'd have him right around RB18, RB19. If, if Jalen Warren can't go, I'm gonna say it.
- [25:35]
A
I'd put him at RB15. I think I'd have him higher because right now the worry is Jalen Warren would be ceding work to, to Kenneth Gainwell and to possibly Caleb Johnson. What I love is that then you have a Kenneth Gainwell, Caleb Johnson split. You know exactly what the roles are and Kenneth Gainwell is going to get. So once again, if Mason Rudolph ends up being the starter, you're going to get so many of these checkdowns and even if Aaron Rodgers is out there, you're probably still going to get quite a few checkdowns from him. So I really would love it if we do fight. Not. Sorry, let me rephrase that. I would not love it if an injured player misses time, but I would love it for Kenneth Gainwell's fantasy value if there is no Jalen Warren this week. He becomes an auto start for, I think, for both of us here.
- [26:14]
B
Yeah, and Chicago's a good matchup too. Yeah, I mean, he'd be up there for me. I'm just looking like I don't know if I can get him ahead of Aaron Jones, Breeze, all, you know, the other guys that I have there, but would definitely be just like a plug and play RP2.
- [26:27]
A
All right. There's a few other guys here. So Bashal Tutin, Tashi Spears, from Andre Stevenson, any one of those guys stand out to you here at the bottom of this tier?
- [26:35]
B
It's so hard to talk about Jacksonville right now. You know, we, we both kind of ranked it a little bit differently. We don't know what's going on with Bashal Tootin. Like, he was a limited participant and it's so funny, just, you know, the, the collective Twitter hive mind. I see a lot of people like, oh, Madre Stevenson's a limited participant. He's probably not going to know he was a limited participant last week. And then I see those same people saying, like Bayshell Tootin, he was a limited participant on Wednesday. He's gonna play this week. It's kind of funny.
- [27:00]
A
Also, did you know he had a 90 spark score out of college?
- [27:04]
B
Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of. What do you call it, like bag protecting. Like, hey, you know, I've got a lot of Trayvon Henderson, a lot of Bayshell Tootin, so I don't think Ramadre Stevenson is going to play this week, but I think Bay Shahl Tootin will. Even though they're on a very similar trajectory right now. I think Bayshell Tootin, like, if he is healthy, I don't know if he's going to be the lead back here, but I think that we're going to see like a what, 45, 45, 10 split where like Laquin Allen is still getting his a little bit. But I think we're at the point now where like Tutin and ETN are going to be splitting touches. Darn near 50, 50.
- [27:35]
A
The world would be an incredible place if La Quinton Allen was getting double digit touches per game. I'm just gonna keep spewing my propaganda every week until it happens. Let's go down to the final tier here for the running backs. And this is going to be running back 32 through 39. Start this off with Bam Knight and Kyle Manangai, Rashad White, Devin Singletary, Tyler Algier, Tony Pollard, Blake Corum and Sean Tucker, which is obviously the way we have Sean Tucker ranked right now is as if Bucky Irving is playing if Bucky Irving is out. Dave, I think Sean Tucker not only surpasses Rashad White, but he goes way up in the rankings here because I know that Bucky is looked at as like this small satellite back that catches a lot of passes. He does do that, but typically Bucky Irving is getting a lot of the rundown stuff while Rashad White is coming out on pass down. So Sean Tucker does kind of fill in for that. Bucky Irving role if he's out.
- [28:31]
B
Yeah. And I just, I really have no idea what to make of this because we saw the same thing last year. Like, Sean tucker came out 17 touches, had almost 200 yards, and we were like, wow, like Sean Tucker stole the job from Rashad White. Then he came out the next week and he had six touches. So like, we, we saw this. I don't know if this was just them saying like, hey, we know that we can get Sean Tucker outside against this Bill's defense where he can put on those jets and blow past them and it worked. Well, I don't know if that was just kind of a individual game plan type of, type of thing that they were trying to use Sean Tucker here. So I'm a little bit more hesitant on Tucker just because I had Sean Tucker in a lot of my lineups last year in Week 7, after the big game when he did absolutely nothing. So maybe this is just like a little bit of PTSD here. I, I do think that if Bucky Irving is back, that renders Sean Tucker pretty much useless because I think that we're going to see Bucky Irving out there getting the, the, the, the primary work. We're going to see Rashad White coming in on passing down work and Sean Tucker just kind of out of the picture. If Bucky Irving is out, I, I don't know what to do. I think I'm going to cop out and just put these guys kind of back to back in my rankings. Rashad White and Sean tucker both as RB3s and kind of hope for the best, start them where I've got them. But I think there's a dangerous floor with either of those guys this week. Week.
- [29:44]
A
That's the thing is, like, I don't, if, if Bucky Irving is out, I don't know that I can get either of these guys much higher than running back 26 maybe.
- [29:57]
B
Right.
- [29:58]
A
I don't, I don't think I can put them into the, like, I'm not putting them ahead of Dave Montgomery or Tyrone Tracy, even Emmanuel Wilson, because at least there's a little bit more clarity there. I don't, I don't know that we have. Like you said, we don't really have the clarity with these guys. Guys.
- [30:12]
B
And Bucky Irving, he has also been out for so long that, like, I don't think he's going to come in and immediately get 22 touches. Like, there's probably going to be an acclimation ramp up period. Like, this guy's missed two months of Football. So I almost wonder like if Bucky Irving is healthy. Seriously, like that, that's kind of what I was going to get at. Like I might just throw all of these guys outside of my top 30 and just say like I'm going to take a wait and see approach and hope that I feel a little bit more confident about what's happening going into week 13.
- [30:42]
A
So crazy. It just might work. Last running back to talk about here, the Arizona Cardinals situation, Trey Benson. Practice window has opened. Amari Di Mercado is out. But we don't have any guarantees that Trey Benson will be playing this week. So let's talk about Bam Knight and Michael Carter. Michael Carter has been in the passing down situation here. Bam Knight has been more of the early down stuff. The Arizona Running Back 1. When you can guess it right, Knight has averaged around 13 PPR points each week over the last six games. So obviously it's advantageous. If you can get it right. In this matchup though, Dave, Bam Knight, Michael Carter, who do you like better here?
- [31:23]
B
That's so tough because it's just a 50, 50 split. And like you said, like you're, you're hoping that Carter can get the receptions, you're hoping Knight can get the touchdowns. And that's kind of how they both end up making their day in fantasy because neither really has big play upside. Like neither is somebody who's going to see 20 plus touch. We're going to see this frustrating split here. I was on Harris football this morning and we talked at length about this backfield because you feel like there's opportunity here, especially if Amari De Mercado can't play because he takes so much of the passing down work that you take him out of the picture and then all of a sudden we're looking at targets going to these guys as well. And you also look at the Cardinals who have been putting up like 500, 600 yards of offense in these games, like just scoring so much. But even that feels kind of inflated. Like we don't think Jacoby Brissette's going to come out here and attempt 58 passes every single week. So it feels like there's so much regression here. A three headed committee is extremely frustrating to deal with with De Mercado out of the picture. You want to get one of these guys in your lineup? I have a slight lean towards Bam Knight just because we have seen him be the preferred guy near the goal line. But you know, I, I, I think they're both, you know, as our Sigmund Bloom likes to say, what the heck Flexes like if you don't have a better option, especially if you're looking for a ceiling, you know, the, the ceiling outcome here is that Carter catches eight passes or Knight scores two touchdowns. And that's kind of what you're hoping for. But, but we're also looking at what could be a bad game script where there isn't a lot of work going to the running backs. Neither of these guys are especially good. Really what we're hoping for with this backfield is that Trey Benson can come back soon and be healthy and then we have that top 20 guy that we can confidently put in our lineups every week.
- [33:00]
A
Yeah, I think you, you laid out the narrative pretty well because that's kind of where my head was going, is okay. Cardinals are gonna have to pass a lot. Let's assume, you know, they can't really run the ball well against this Jacksonville defense that has been good against running backs and stopping the run.
- [33:12]
B
Right.
- [33:13]
A
Jacoby Brissette, obviously he's passing a ton, but also I don't think we can trust the Jaguars to get themselves out to a lead here in this game. Like this is something that we've seen as well. So I actually do think, and what we always see with the Jaguars, this game's going to be closer than we expect. And that's why I'm with you. I lean Bam Knight for that touchdown upside. If they're in near the goal line, anywhere near the five yard line, it's Bam Knight territory. Michael Carter does have a nice little PP floor where, you know, you can probably scam your way into at least the floor of like eight points with Michael Carter and, and you know, you have some safety there, so if that's really all you need, I'm cool with that. But if you want to go for the touchdown upside, Bam Knight is, is the guy to go with there.
- [33:51]
B
They're both small guys though, and that's why we're not going to see either of them run away with a job and like take, you know, all of the backfield touches.
- [33:58]
A
Whoa. Dave Kluge Known sizest.
- [34:00]
B
I mean when you got two guys that are under 210 pounds, I think they're just going to prefer to split. And the thing is like, like you can get around size if you have blazing speed and explosiveness and neither of these guys really have that, like they both got that short area quickness, but like they don't have a lot of physicality, they don't have a lot of bursts. They don't have a lot of long speed. They both just kind of do the same thing. Like Michael Carter, a little bit more patient, bounces around a little bit. Donovan Knight is more of the putting his head down and trying to run through a guy. But, like, we just don't see big plays from either of them. And I don't think we're going to.
- [34:34]
A
All right, midway point of the show, we've gone through our running backs. We switch over to wide receivers now. But also, I just want to remind everybody, you have a bunch of ways you can enjoy this show, and we are so thankful for each and every one of you that watch or listen and you come here every single week and you enjoy this time with us. Because we enjoy it with you. And those of you that interact with us on social media, that leave reviews, that send us emails, that ask us questions, it absolutely means the world, world to us. So if you have one of those questions, drop it in the comments below. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify. It just. It helps us so much as creators and it helps football guys get the podcast out to more people. We can't ask you guys for enough help here, and we thank you so much for that. Dave. Let's go to the wide receivers now. We're going to start at Tier 1, where there's not much to say. Wide receivers 1 through 9. Jackson Smith, Njigba Puka, Nakua, Rashid Rice, Amanra St. Brown, Nico Collins, CD Lamb T. Higgins, Ameka Buka, and Devonte Adams. Anything to talk about there?
- [35:35]
B
I've seen this, like, Rams playing out of 13 personnel, and then it's like a death knell for Pukinakua. I don't. I don't care. It's Pukinakua. You're still putting him in your lineup. I've seen, like, people saying, like, if you still got your trade deadline, you know, maybe try to get out from under Pukinakua. No, no, absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:55]
A
Those are the same people that sold Apple stock when they were like, they're coming out with the ipod. Let's get that. That's never going to work.
- [36:01]
B
Bitcoin hit five bucks. Better sell.
- [36:04]
A
That automobile idea is going to be real big. Why don't we invest in Zeppelin instead?
- [36:08]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's Pukinakua and like, yeah, he hasn't had 100 yards over the last few weeks, but, like, it's still Pukinagua. Like, what are we doing here? Like, the per game wide receiver, too and we're. We're getting scared because of Davis Allen and, And. And Terence Ferguson. No, no.
- [36:26]
A
You sure you're not worried about Davis Allen?
- [36:28]
B
Not in the slightest.
- [36:30]
A
It's not a knock against him, man.
- [36:31]
B
Poker is just like, Tyler Higby's injured this week, too. So all this 13 personnel stuff that we're getting worried about, probably not going to happen this week with no Tyler Higby. Like, it's going to be the Puka Nuku and Devonte Adams show like it has been all year.
- [36:42]
A
You never know, Dave. They could sign a tight end off.
- [36:44]
B
The practice squad because devonte Adams stat line last week was hilarious. Did you see that? Eight targets, one reception, one yard, one touchdown. Like devonte Adams out here in his late career. Jerome bet his face.
- [36:58]
A
It's beautiful. All right, let's go to the next tier. This is going to be wide receivers 10 through 18. And this is a name that we have not said this high yet in the rankings, but here we are at number 10, Stefan Diggs. At 11, Tedroa McMillan. 12, Chris Olave. 13, Justin Jefferson. That's weird. 14, George Pickens. 15. Jameson Williams. Hey, look at that. He's going up. 16, Devontae Smith. 17, AJ Brown. Okay, and then at 18, Roma Dunze. So a lot of. A lot of whoa, names on this tier here. Dave, who stands out to you the most?
- [37:33]
B
Stefan Diggs. And how many times? I feel like every single time we've done a trade show this year, I've somehow shoehorned Stefan Diggs into it. And like, I remember telling you, like, I know for the sake of content, should be coming up with new names, but, like, I can't think of anybody I want to trade for more than Stefan Diggs. Like, he was an aging guy coming off an ACL, wasn't playing 100% of the snaps. But when you would look at all of the metrics, yards per route, run, targets per route run, like, this guy on a per route run basis was up there with JSN and Puka as one of the most efficient wide receivers in football. And what happened last week, he runs more routes than any other Patriots wide receiver. He has a 100 yard game. He looks like the Stefan Diggs of old. I've heard some people say that this could just be because Keisha Booty was out, but Keisha Booty's been out for the last few weeks, and it was last week that we finally saw Stefan Diggs. So I am just buying into the narrative that, like, his knee is 100 he is going to be the wide receiver one. He's going to be out there playing more snaps, running more routes. Stefan Diggs, this is exactly what we hope for. Like, when he signed with the Patriots, we said Stefan Diggs can be to Drake May what he was for Josh Allen. And I think we could see that now through the end of the season.
- [38:37]
A
Season, yeah. Stefan Diggs had 100 yards or a touchdown in four straight games. And this matchup against the Bengals is just beautiful. They've allowed three receivers to hit 15 or 15 plus PPR points in the last three games. So I love this here. It's an easy wide receiver two with wide receiver, one upside. And that's how we have him ranked as the wide receiver 10 on the week. I mean, I think that's where he needs to be. Drake May looked a little off, off last week, but he's still making some beautiful throws. Like, the. The maturation process of Drake May in the NFL has just been textbook. Like, that's what you want to see out of a franchise quarterback when you're drafting them like that.
- [39:15]
B
And I will say with this matchup, you know, there is a. DJ Turner is a real thing. Like, he has been shutting down wide receivers, but Stefan Diggs kind of gets that, like, London treatment where he is moving all over. Yeah. He's playing 50, 48 of his snaps coming out of the slot. So, like, if they see him matched up on DJ Turner, they can easily put him in motion to get him off there. So I think that like, like Stefan Diggs is developed into what we had hoped, which is like the clear wide receiver one in this offense.
- [39:40]
A
What's amazing is that the Patriots are set up to take on a D.J. turner so well, a shutdown cornerback one so well because they trot out there with their sacrificial ex, Mack Hollins with no cleats and no gloves and no helmet, and he's just like, I'm just going to fight you one on one. While Stefon Diggs goes and catches, passes underneath. That's. This team is perfectly set up for a matchup like this. It's incredible.
- [40:04]
B
Bowl. Yeah.
- [40:06]
A
All right. Other guys from this tier that I'd love to talk about. Chris Olave. Now that we've got Tyler Schuck starting, there's been these moves in the Saints wide receiver room. Rashid, she gets traded away. Brandon Cooks gets released. Now, it's not like Brandon Cooks had some sort of big role for the Saints, but everything's pretty clear now as to how this offense is going to work. It's Chris Olave, it's Devon Vela, it's Juwan Johnson and it's Alvin Camara. We have sort of our, our tree now of how everything has been condensed Falcons. I know that AJ Terrell has been a good corner, but we just saw what happened with Tedro and McMillan and what happens when you can get a wide receiver moving around, get them going on some crossing patterns. The Saints coming off of their bye week, you know, they absolutely were watching that game and are going to be trying to do the exact same things that the Panthers just did. And Bryce Young has his career high game. Dave. Chris Olave, I'm, I'm not nervous about him. I think some people were starting to get nervous. Tyler Schuck being in there, all the trades that have been happening and now this condensed target funnel. I'm not nervous about him at all. I still have Chris Olave ranked pretty high. He's my wide receiver 11 this week.
- [41:14]
B
Yeah. And I mean, Chris Alave, like, he's having himself a really good year. He's pulling a lot of targets here, pacing on the entire year for 162 targets over 1100 yards. I mean, that's wide receiver one production, and it hasn't been the most efficient production, but the inefficiencies have been masked by volume. And that's what we're seeing this year is like he's going to get 8 to 12 targets every single week. And, and I don't know how you don't put a guy like that in your lineup.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah, yeah. Jerry Judy. Jerry Judy's the 50 Cent meme. He's like what you say f me for, man?
- [41:50]
B
Like catching strays. But yeah, yeah, man.
- [41:55]
A
All right. Anyone else from this tier that you just, you want to, you want to.
- [41:58]
B
Shout out real quick, Justin Jefferson. It's, it's sad. Like, it's, it's pretty crazy to have Justin Jefferson ranked as a wide receiver too. And I will say, like, you know, I talked about him on the trade target show. I think if you are desperate right now, if you're sitting at 3, 4, 5 wins and you need a huge shake up, a guy that can really turn your season around. I do like trying to buy low on Justin Jefferson. You know, we, we've seen this guy just like a top three wide receiver almost every single season. But yeah, like when you start ranking these guys out it, you can't rank him as a top three wide receiver. The upside is still there because it's Justin Jefferson. But at the end of the day, like we, we've seen what he's done over this season and has been giving us not even wide receiver two production. Like we're ranking him higher than he's been performing because of who he is. But the reality is like he's been a boomer bus Wide Receiver 3 this year. Tier.
- [42:49]
A
All right, I want to move down to the next tier here because we get some really interesting names. So let's go to tier number three at wide receiver 19. We've got Zay Flowers at 20, Michael Pittman 21, DK Metcalf 22, Wandale Robinson 23, Juwan Jennings, 24, Michael Wilson, 25 Alec Pierce, 26 Christian Watson and 27 Romeo Dobbs. Because you and I cannot differentiate between the packers receivers. So we just ride the fence and put them next to each other.
- [43:14]
B
Other. But I still think like when you're talking about those guys, like they are next to each other in rankings, but we view them very differently. Like Romeo does the narrow range of outcomes where you know you're going to get like a floor of 8 points and a ceiling of 15 points unless he has that random 3 touchdown game. Christian Watson, vast range of outcomes. He can win your week. He could also give you one catch for 13 yards.
- [43:36]
A
Yeah, it's. I think that's why, like it's so hard to differentiate between the two of them is yeah, the roles are going to be different and it's not even like a game script thing. It's just sort of what version of Jordan Love are we going to get in this game? Are we going to get the guy that can sustain drives? Because if he can sustain drives, that's all of a sudden a Romeo Dobbs game. Because you're looking at some target volume. If he's the guy that's running around like crazy just looking to make a play. That's when you get the broken plays and you got Christian Watson deep downfield. So it's very hard to predict that unless we're looking at kind of like sack rates and blitz percentages, stuff like that. Going up against. Actually, I think I just did this right now. I mean, going up against Minnesota, they love to blitz. The quarterback Brian Flores is heavy on. Yeah, I think we're. We could be looking at short passes. We could be looking also at elongated plays with Jordan Love kind of running like crazy. So the weird thing too, if you.
- [44:25]
B
Look at like a game by game sample, like it's a different game plan every single week, like one year, Jordan Love will have an intended air yards of like averaging 22 yards downfield. It then the next week his average past attempt goes four yards downfield. So like you just see like this is such a Jekyll and Hyde packers team.
- [44:42]
A
Yeah, like they're, they're an impossible offense to prep for if you're a defense but they also just haven't been good so like it's not too much to prep for the guy. I think that is most intriguing from this tier here Dave is Michael Wilson, wide receiver for the Arizona Cardinals comes off a career game last week week Just incredible, you know 15 for 185 on 18 targets. I mean this is, this is Madden numbers. This is ridiculous. Marvin Harrison Jr. Still out with the appendicitis. So Michael Wilson's locked in as the wide receiver one again for Arizona going up against Jacksonville who this has been a bad secondary. It's been consistent that the Jaguars have been allowing wide receivers to get at least 12 plus PPR points. Nine receivers have done that this season. There's just always someone that's able to score. My question is this is. I think there's going to be a lot of attention on Michael Wilson. So does it end up being someone maybe like Greg Dortch or are you just starting Michael Wilson no matter what? I know it might be overthinking it. Right. But like how many weeks have we walked into fantasy football? Even when Marvin Harrison Jr. Is out or Trey McBride is out or something and we go yes, Michael Wilson, he's an obvious no brainer start.
- [45:54]
B
Yeah. And I mean Trey McBride is obviously the clear number one guy here. And I think last week, I mean there was so much volume. 58 pass attempts we saw.
- [46:04]
A
It cannot be overstated.
- [46:06]
B
Right. Jacoby Brissette, I believe I might broke a record. Yeah, that's what I thought. 48 broke a record For Passions was the for for completions too. Completions like yeah, I mean just absurd numbers and we can't expect that every single week. So like if we just take you know and I, I don't want to take away from Michael Wilson like he spectacular catches, he looked good. He was beating man coverage. He was finding the soft spots in the zones. He was doing all the things a wide receiver should do. But I think you know where a lot of people might just say like oh like this is what this guy's going to do every single week like a wide receiver one while Marvin Harrison Jr. Is out, you and I are both pump the brakes a little bit like we've got him As a back end wide receiver too, which means you're starting him in most lineups. And that's really like, don't, don't hear what we're not saying. We're not saying Michael Wilson isn't somebody you should get in your lineup. You absolutely should get him in your lineup. But I'm not expecting 18 targets going his way. Good.
- [46:57]
A
He's my wide receiver. 25 right now, right behind Alec Pierce, Joanne Jennings, DK Metcalf, Michael Pittman Jr. If you're trying to make a decision between those guys, I'm starting those guys. I feel like I have a little more certainty with either of them. And that's weird to say that with two Colts receivers, but I, I do feel that way.
- [47:14]
B
And DK Metcalf is another one I want to talk about because yeah, I've gotten a lot of start sit questions in my DMs about DK Metcalf and like some of the people like, like, you know, should I bench Khalil Shakir or should I bench DK Metcalf for Khalil Shakir and names like this. And I get it, like it has been frustrating with DK Metcalf. I was looking over the last five weeks, he is the wide receiver 56, 17, 3.6 receptions per game. And now we're looking at a potential Mason Rudolph start. Like, I know there is a lot of fear here, but what DK Metcalf does best is make big plays. Like all it takes is one slant breaking, one tackle and then he's off to the races. And the Chicago defense with Dennis Allen, they play so aggressively that they are going to over pursue, they're going to blitz, they're going to try to make turnovers, they're going to try to get sacks. And that does open up opportunities for big plays here. So I think this is a week where, you know, not even looking at like the, just the, the basics that like Chicago has given up the fifth most points to wide receivers than any other defense out there. It's where they are explicitly susceptible is in giving up big plays. That's exactly what you're hoping for with DK Metcalf. So to me this does feel like a good get right spot for dk.
- [48:21]
A
Yeah, I think when you have players, I mean, I know that we've had our own differences with DK Metcalf where we just, we didn't want to draft him, but also if you have him on your team, you kind of, you have to play the matchups, you have to do exactly what you're talking about, Dave, which is contextualize. Who are they playing against? Is this an aggressive team? Is this, is there opportunity for big plays? And that's kind of thing we have to look at here. Speaking of another guy that makes big plays, I mentioned Alec Pierce before. This is a guy, I've got him right on that fringe at wide receiver 24 for me. So he's a wide receiver two going up against the Chiefs this week. It's. They're, they're good against wide receivers, but they do allow a lot of deep balls and that's something where I think Alec Pierce is going to be able to make a living this week. 26 target share of the last four games, nearly 15 PPR points per game in that span as well. I think you've got to be looking at him as a low end wide receiver too with some big upside. Especially if you. If and maybe, maybe it's, it's, you know, Daniel Jones turning into a pumpkin season. Right. But going in this game, man, Colts, Chiefs, two good offenses. We could actually end up seeing a shootout here. Like which is kind of crazy to say with Patrick Mahomes and Daniel Jones, but that is, that's on the menu for this game.
- [49:33]
B
Yeah. And there's a lot of talk about like Alec Pierce now being the wide receiver one in Indianapolis. And we got to remember last time they played each other, AJ Terrell like he was glued to Pittman. Pittman isn't one of those guys that moves around the formation and can get out from under a coverage shadow like this. Like he had AJ Terrell glued on him for basically the entire game. But if you look like Alec Pierce still wasn't like, I'm sorry, Michael Pittman still had outscored Alec Pierce in fantasy in the three games prior. So I like Alec Pierce this week because we're seeing him really start to develop as a well rounded receiver. And I think that he's going to be involved. But I don't think it has to come at the expense of Michael Pittman either. Like both these guys, you want to get them both in your lineup because this is a Colts team that we can see can hang a lot of points any week.
- [50:18]
A
Fantasy managers get used to positionless football. Very similar to the NBA. There's not a lot of this wide receiver one, wide receiver two stuff. It's guys that do different things. It's field stretchers, it's classic X's, it's guys that can move around the formation as a Z. It's guys that you want to put in your slot that can win underneath against linebackers and safeties. Like these are the positions here. It's. You're not seeing as much. Wide Receiver 1 Talk like a classic, you know, you know, Tara Lohan's, Randy Moss type stuff that we used to have not too long ago.
- [50:47]
B
And it used to be that like every team just had two receivers. So like we're looking at kind of like a pool of like 64 receivers to choose from every single week. And like you prefer the guys in good offenses and things like that. But like now every single team, like we see so many teams that just have these like six receiver rotations that are just constantly running routes every single week. So it's been a weird year. You know, we talk so much like, like over the last few years that zero running back has kind of been the thing in the way to win. But that was when like we had, you know, the, the Julio Joneses and the Calvin Johnson's and these guys that were just like difference makers and there were like, you know, 15 of them. Now it feels like the difference making wide receivers, we've got like six and then everybody else is just kind of in this boomer bus category.
- [51:32]
A
Let's go down to the next tier here. This is going to be tier number four. This is wide receivers 28, eight through 37. Dave at 28. We got Khalil Shakir, then Jordan Addison, Ricky Piersoll, Xavier Worthy, Darnell Mooney, Trey Tucker, Jacoby Myers, Tez Johnson, DJ Moore, Brian Thomas Jr. Woof. All right, one name stands out to you the most?
- [51:54]
B
I mean, I think we got to talk about Brian Thomas Jr. First just because like I kind of have him in my rankings as a placeholder as a back end wide receiver too, under the expectation that he will play this week. And effort. It's weird. I think his consensus ranking right now he's like outside of 70. I think most people are expecting him not to play it suddenly.
- [52:12]
A
That's why I have him ranked like that, just to give the context right.
- [52:15]
B
And, and he was. And I don't know why, like maybe I'm being too blindly optimistic here, but he was, he practiced all week last week and then he was questionable going into the game. We got that like morning of saying that he wouldn't be ready to play. And then he comes back to practice this week and still limited. So I don't, I, I think he's gonna play. Like typically when you see a guy practicing for 2 full weeks not declared out Until Sunday morning. That's guy that you out there. But I don't know like if he.
- [52:44]
A
Plays, I'm putting him.
- [52:46]
B
I don't know, like, is that it? Like just.
- [52:48]
A
I have not checked the dog in him one like at all.
- [52:51]
B
Yeah, like it seems like a lot of guys are like fighting to come back and like, I don't know. He. We. We've seen it a lot this year where he like picks up these little like ticky tack injuries and then sits out for a couple of quarters. And like here he is now like at his second week of practice but like still not logging a full practice. Still kind of like not getting good vibes about him being back. I think like long term through the fantasy playoffs, especially if he is healthy. I love the Jacoby Myers edition because Jacoby Myers is going to do all the things that we don't want Brian Thomas Jr doing. Like Jacoby Myers is going to play out of the slot. He's going to get the in breaking routes. He's going to eat up those targets of the short and intermediate areas of the field, opening up the deep shots to Brian Thomas. So like I'm still holding on to faith for late in the season this week. I expect him to play and I want to get him in my lineups where I have him. But like, like just bad vibes. Bad, bad vibes.
- [53:40]
A
If he plays. Where are you ranking him?
- [53:43]
B
I've got him at wide receiver 22. So kind of like right at that fringe of wide receiver 22 or wide receiver 2 and wide receiver 3. And you know, we talk about this all the time. Like we have to do rankings for the sake of doing rankings. But like, dude, you, you look from like wide receiver 15 to like wide receiver 40. These guys all feel like they're just separated by like like two projected points. Like it is so tight this year.
- [54:08]
A
If I'm looking at Brian Thomas Jr. Christian Watson, D.J. moore, Trey Tucker, I'm like A.J.
- [54:14]
B
Brown, like all the way down.
- [54:16]
A
Wide receiver 23, right?
- [54:18]
B
Yeah.
- [54:18]
A
There's 46 wide receiver twos in week 12. That's just how we're looking.
- [54:23]
B
That's what I'm saying. Like, it doesn't even feel like we have like our normal batch of like 12 wide receiver ones. It feels like we have like 6 wide receiver ones and then 30 wide receiver threes. And like I don't even know if wide receiver twos exist in fantasy anymore.
- [54:37]
A
I don't think so. Like judging by our, our cd, Lamb.
- [54:41]
B
And T. Higgins are like the two wide Receiver twos this week.
- [54:47]
A
Anyone else here from. From this tier? Because I. There are some, I think, interesting names that I want to talk about that are in the last year. Actually, you know what? Darnel Mooney. Let's talk about that because I think there's going to be questions here about Darnell Moody. With Drake London out Kirk Cousins in the Darl Mooney target share has been interesting. 32 and 24 target shares over the last two weeks. What does it mean now with Kirk Cousins? Like, what does it mean going into this game here with the Saints? Saints are not that great against perimeter receivers. So if Darnell Mooney is going to line up there, then, you know, there's some faith. I think where I lose faith, though, is the ability of Kirk Cousins to get the ball to Darnell Mooney at any sort of consistent rate. So even if we do get a lot of targets, I don't know how valuable these targets are. Dave. Like, I only want to start Darnell Mooney as a desperation wide receiver. 3 not. It's weird to say that because I can rank him ahead of guys because I think there's upside. But, for example, I don't think Darnell Mooney is as attractive of a start as Jacoby Myers, per se, or Tez Johnson or Trey Tucker or DJ Moore. But I'll rank him higher because I think there is that possibility. He can get more targets and potentially score a touchdown.
- [56:05]
B
Yeah, and this is another one that Chris Harris and I talked about this morning because, like, when you start crunching the numbers and like, you know, who are the targets going to go to, a projected target share, all these sorts of things, it's like, yeah, Darnell Mooney, like, fits in as a wide receiver, too. But then you just zoom out and you're like, like, but it's a Kirk Cousins offense. Mooney has looked atrocious this year. Like, is this really who I want to put in my tight end two spot? And I'm, you know, we see these years every once in a while from a bunch of different players. Like, Darnell Mooney got hurt the first day of training camp, missed all of training camp, then comes back re injures himself, misses more time, comes back again. And it's just been so bad this year. Like, we cannot understate how bad. Darnell Mooney has been averaging less than one yard per ro. That rakes 91st amongst disgusters. Yeah, dude, it has been so, so bad. And that was with Michael Pennix, who was playing, like, you know, inconsistent, but at least decent Football. And now we're also looking at, like, Darnell Mooney. His average targets come deep downfield, which right now is adot. His average depth of target is 15 yards downfield. That is sixth highest among all receivers. I don't have a lot of faith in Kirk Cousins to push that ball downfield. We saw it last year. We don't know if this was just, like, coming back from the Achilles injury or if his arm is just getting a little bit older. He just doesn't have any zip on his balls anymore. He can't push the ball downfield. So I'm looking at a.
- [57:32]
A
Sorry.
- [57:34]
B
Yeah, look at Darnell Mooney, who has been inefficient this year, has struggled with injuries on an offense that we suspect to be terrible. I get it. Like, people are going to want to put Darnell Moody in their lineups, but I think you could probably search the waiver wire and find a better option.
- [57:52]
A
If I'm going to be real, let's start the next tier because I think the guy at the top of it becomes almost an interesting start over Darnell Moody, and that's Andre Yoshavas.
- [58:03]
B
I have him ranked that way. I prefer Yosef Ashtamooni. Yep.
- [58:06]
A
Yeah. And I'm gonna do, like, once again, we do these rankings Thursday morning, and then we're going to get more practice report stuff, and we're going to get close games, and we're going to see it a little bit differently. I'll probably be moving Yoshivas up a bit more and moving Darnell Mooney a bit down in my rankings, and I think that would reflect in our tiers that we have. But Yosavash, I think, is a really interesting start this week, and it's. It's worked out well with Joe Flacco, but now that you have Jamar, chase out Joe Burrow baby back. Yeah, if Joe Burrow's back, like, that's. That's nuts. But I think.
- [58:42]
B
Yeah, Yeah.
- [58:42]
A
I also think, like, we're still pretty good, though, with Joe Flacco. Like, it's not a. I don't want this to be taken out of context. Like, it's not a huge downgrade. Like, this is still a serviceable passing offense, but you got nearly 12 targets per game missing. They gotta go somewhere. Maybe you don't pass the ball as much, but you're going up against New England. You've got T. Higgins facing Christian Gonzalez.
- [59:03]
B
Yeah.
- [59:03]
A
Andre Yosef, like, might actually be the guy this week to come out of there with seven, eight, nine targets. In the game, he's had two games with seven targets. Both those games were over 13 PPR points. I think that's what we could be looking at this week.
- [59:18]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's kind of floating under the radar. Like, so much has been made about Joe Flacco practicing in full. But, like, I don't think a lot of people realize that or, I'm sorry, Joe Burrow practicing in full, that I don't think a lot of people realize. Joe Flacco did not practice. Like, he's had that right shoulder injury that's been bothering him for the last month, and he couldn't even even log a single practice rep yesterday with that while Joe Burrow was out here in full. So it's kind of weird, you know, when. When I see these murky situations like this, what I like to do is look at the sports books and see if the lines have moved. And the lines haven't really moved on this game, which tells me that Vegas isn't expecting Burrow to be out there. But Burrow comes out again today. Like, he's at practice. Right now we're recording too early to know whether it's full practice or a limited practice, but if he logs a second full practice, this. I think we've got to start projecting this under the assumption that Joe Burrow is going to start this week, in which case, yeah, Yosavash probably more than like a top 40 receiver. He probably sneaks into the top 30 with Jamar Chase out.
- [60:15]
A
Yeah, I think with the. The quarterback stuff, my assumption is going to be they're trying to get Burrows work so he can have almost like a mini kind of ramp up here, training camp, so to speak, for himself as he's getting back into it. And then with Flacco, he knows what he's doing sort of more like the veteran rest days is like, take your time off. I will say there does seem to be a small bit of desperation stink on the Bengals that they need to win to keep their season alive. And I think they will do anything to keep Jake Browning from starting. But I think just, you know, conventional thought here tells me it's still going to be Joe Flacco this week. He's getting the rest days and this is going to be an Andre Yoshavas case game. Man, That's. That's the way I'm looking at this one.
- [60:58]
B
We. And. And we joked, you know, Brian Thomas Jr. Like, the. The dog in him type of thing. Like, Joe Burrow's got some dog in him, like, this dude is a psychopathic competitor. Like, he's going to do whatever he can to come back, like, even if he isn't 100%. So I don't know what to expect this week. But the last thing I'll say about Yosovash, T. Higgins is going to be drawing coverage from Christian Gonzalez all game. He only plays out wide. Christian Godalas is going to follow him all over the formation. So. So Joseph Ash is, like, more than just, like, a sneaky play. I think he's somebody that, like, you know, there's a lot of people out there right now hurting at the wide receiver position with Drake London being hurt and Jamar Chase getting suspended and all this sort of stuff. Yosfash is out there in so many leagues right now, and, like, you could just put. Pick him up and. And put him right into the flex.
- [61:39]
A
I'm starting him in our listener league.
- [61:42]
B
So there you go.
- [61:43]
A
Get ready.
- [61:43]
B
Hey, shout out. Listen, that's been a fun one this year. I got off to a slow start, but turning it around right now and starting to. Starting to string some wins together. Bit a little late.
- [61:51]
A
God, everything has gone wrong for me in that league. Amarian Hampton, injured Ricky Piersoll, injured Rasheed Rice. Bad time to get injuries early in the season when one of your best players is suspended. It's just. Yeah, it's been a. It's been fun.
- [62:04]
B
I talked about it during the draft and we talked about it on the show after. That was like, the hardest draft I've ever done because we're just drafting against 10 people who take advice from you and I. So, like, you know, just. We couldn't get any of the guys we want. Every week when I'm going through setting my lineups, I look at that league and I. I'm like, what was I thinking when I drafted? Like, none of these are my guys. Like, it is just like, that was a. That is the, you know, exposure team for me. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get a little versatile and draft some guys that I don't have on any other teams.
- [62:33]
A
That's what happens when you expose yourself. Dave.
- [62:38]
B
We'Re done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're done.
- [62:41]
A
That's usually when. That's usually when it's over. That's usually when it's over. Over. All right, well, we. We didn't quite talk about every single player here, but we. We got to the list. 45 receivers for you guys, and I believe it was 40 running backs, which is 80 plus players here on the Jam packed starts and sleepers episode for week 12. We're gonna be back again next week with our Week 13 recap. Week 12 recap. Week 13 waiver wire. And we're gonna be back again for the sleepers and episode again the following week. So make sure you're subscribed to the channel you're listening on, Apple and Spotify. While you're there, leave a five star review. It means the world to us. And as always, I want to thank everybody for watching or listening all the way through. For myself, for Dave. We'll see you next time. Adios. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.
- [63:39]
B
It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working.
- [63:47]
A
Out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion.
- [63:52]
B
And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced.
- [64:04]
A
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- [64:08]
B
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