Week 13 Rankings and Sleepers || Fantasy Football 2025

Summary

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Footballguys Fantasy Football Show

Episode: Week 13 Rankings and Sleepers || Fantasy Football 2025
Hosts: Alfredo Brown & Dave Kluge
Date: November 26, 2025

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Overview

This episode delivers a deep dive into Week 13 fantasy football rankings, with a special focus on Thanksgiving and Black Friday games. Alfredo and Dave break down positional tiers for running backs and wide receivers, dissect injury impacts, matchups, player trends, and recommend who to start or bench. The show is lively, full of sharp debates, playful banter, and bold fantasy advice for managers looking to secure a win during the crucial week.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Early NFL News & Banter (01:29–06:42)

• Minnesota Vikings Daniel Jones Rumor: Hosts discuss Jeremy Fowler’s report/rumor that the Vikings may pursue Daniel Jones. Both find the speculation excessive and humorous.
  • Dave (01:38): “It’s like breaking up with a girl in college and then seeing the wedding pictures…”
  • Alfredo (04:26): Jokes about Jameis Winston “fixing America” if signed by the Vikings, riffing on the idea of Winston as a reality-show star or the next Bachelor.
• Segment ends with whimsical ideas for NFL reality shows.

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2. Week 13 Format & Strategic Approach (06:42–08:18)

• Focus is primarily on Thursday and Friday games to give timely, actionable info. Injury news is relatively stable this week, but always “expect the unexpected.”
  • Alfredo (08:21): “The only thing that we do know about the NFL is that we know absolutely nothing at all.”

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3. Running Back Rankings & Tiers

Tier 1: RB1–RB8 (08:25–12:46)

Christian McCaffrey, Jameer Gibbs, Jonathan Taylor, Devon Achan, Bijan Robinson, James Cook, Derrick Henry, Chase Brown

• Chase Brown gets special attention:
  • Both hosts rank him above consensus—superior usage with Joe Flacco, explosive big play upside.
  • Dave (09:12): “...with Joe Flacco, Chase Brown’s been pretty darn good…top five running back over the last month and a half.”
  • Alfredo (10:35): “Don’t get cute with these guys. Just start ‘em.”
• Thanksgiving RB Trends:
  • Alfredo (12:08): Wonders if running backs always have “monster games” on Thanksgiving due to core memories.
  • No hard data, but both reminisce on past holiday performances.

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Tier 2: RB9–RB19 (13:00–20:45)

Key RBs: Saquon Barkley, Trayveon Henderson, Kyron Williams, Josh Jacobs, Travis Etienne, Breece Hall, Javonte Williams, Omarion Hampton, Rico Dowdle, Bucky Irving, Jalen Warren

• Trayveon Henderson vs. Ramondre Stevenson: Henderson out-played Stevenson, but caution advised as Stevenson ramps up post-injury.
  • Dave (14:26): “Don’t want to be the wet towel here…but as Stevenson gets healthier, we could see [carry split] tighten up.”
• Javonte Williams: Volume high, touchdowns lacking lately. Still a must-start.
  • Alfredo (16:15): “The volume is still there...both remain confident.”
• Rico Dowdle: Committee emerging with Chuba Hubbard; further from “top 8” upside, more solid RB2 now.
• Bucky Irving: Both discuss recent adversity (injury, family losses); hope he regains mental and physical health before expecting RB1-level production.

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Tier 3: RB20–RB27 (20:45–24:23)

Names: Quinshon Judkins, RJ Harvey, Tyrone Tracy, Ken Walker III, Woody Marks, Aaron Jones, DeAndre Swift, Trey Benson

• DeAndre Swift/Manungai: Philly backfield is a “hot hand” approach; Swift’s role feels unstable—expect flex-level output.
  • Alfredo (22:52): “I don’t know if I can trust him every week going forward.”

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Tier 4: RB28–RB35 (24:44–31:02)

• All RBs in this tier are “basically the same,” offering volume-based, touchdown-dependent flex value.
• Devin Neal is the “mystery box” back—fresh legs, potential for a stretch-run breakout.
  • Dave (27:34): “Sometimes that’s all that matters.”
• Kareem Hunt/Isaiah Pacheco: Chiefs’ backfield a frustrating split; no clear workhorse emerges.

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Tier 5: RB36–RB41 (31:02–32:17)

• Raheem Mostert: Limited expectations on bad offense (assuming Jinty is out).
• General advice: This is “dart-throw” territory, best avoided if you have safer options.

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4. Wide Receiver Rankings & Tiers

Tier 1: WR1–WR10 (33:49–36:43)

Top names: Rashee Rice, Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Jamar Chase, Puka Nacua, Amon-Ra St. Brown, George Pickens, CeeDee Lamb, Davante Adams, Jaylen Waddle, Nico Collins

• All are “set and forget,” especially in holiday slates.
• George Pickens: Massive breakout, even outperforming Lamb post-CDL’s return.
  • Dave (35:19): “At a certain point, you are what your fantasy production says you are…Pickens is the WR2 in fantasy.”

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Tier 2: WR11–WR22 (38:09–43:29)

Notables: Chris Olave, Tet McMillan, AJ Brown, Ladd McConkey, Devonta Smith, Zay Flowers, Justin Jefferson, Michael Wilson, Stefon Diggs, Emeka Egbuka, Wan’Dale Robinson, Jameson Williams

• Michael Wilson: Pure volume WR2 if Marvin Harrison Jr. and Kyler Murray are out.
  • Dave (39:59): “If this is what we see going forward...Michael Wilson is going to be a league winner.”
• Philly WRs (AJ Brown, Devonta Smith): Smith quietly outproducing Brown; both are startable but lack WR1 confidence.
  • Dave (41:04): “Devonta Smith is playing as the better receiver this year...in almost every single metric.”
  • Alfredo (43:29): “There’s something in me that keeps ranking AJ Brown higher...the upside is there.”
• Zay Flowers: Great peripherals but underwhelming output—draws Hollywood Brown comp.
• Jameson Williams: Usage up, output down—still volatile boom-or-bust play.
  • Dave (47:02): “The Jameson Williams experience. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.”

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Tier 3: WR23–WR31 (48:12–52:54)

Highlighted: Khalil Shakir, Michael Pittman Jr., Roma Dunze, Troy Franklin, Jauan Jennings, Courtland Sutton, Deebo Samuel, DK Metcalf, Christian Watson

• Roma Dunze: Falling to WR3/4 territory due to crowded offense and tough matchups.
• Christian Watson: Trending upward, more involved in intermediate game; higher floor as he recovers from ACL.

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Tier 4 & 5: WR32–WR46 (53:58–59:02)

Names: Darnell Mooney, Alec Pierce, Quentin Johnston, Jacoby Myers, Keenan Allen, DJ Moore, Xavier Worthy, Romeo Doubs, Ricky Pearsall, Andre Iosivas, Chimera DK, Luther Burden, Jaden Higgins, Parker Washington…

• DJ Moore & Luther Burden: Flex appeal due to lower expectations; big-play upside for Burden in particular.
  • Alfredo (56:06): Predicts big TD for Burden on Adoree Jackson this week.
• Xavier Worthy: Disappointing, injury-plagued, not trusted as fantasy starter.
  • Dave (57:34): “He’s probably a lot more Kadarius Toney than he is Tyreek Hill.”
• Andre Iosivas: Flashes upside but faces competition from Tinsley; hosts recommend Mike Gesicki as the better streamer if desperate.

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5. Notable Quotes

On Unlikely Upside and Fantasy Pain

“Don’t get cute with these guys. Just start them.”
— Alfredo Brown on RB studs (10:35)

“At a certain point, you are what your fantasy production says you are.”
— Dave Kluge on disappointing names (41:08, 57:34)

On Real Life Impact and Player Compassion

“These are people, right? They’re not just players…Let’s just be humans. Please.”
— Alfredo Brown on Bucky Irving’s personal struggles (20:33)

On Thanksgiving Week and Priorities

“If you miss a football game this week, it’s not the end of the world…spend time with family. That’s what means a lot this time of year.”
— Dave Kluge (63:32)

On Jameson Williams’ Ups and Downs

“You live by the Jameson and you die by the Jameson. And we may have died last week, but hoping for resuscitation in Week 13.”
— Dave Kluge (47:37)

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6. Must-See Segments & Timestamps

• Vikings’ Daniel Jones Rumor Banter: 01:29–06:42
• Chase Brown Boom Case: 09:12–12:46
• Philly RB Uncertainty (Swift/Manungai): 22:52–24:23
• George Pickens’ Breakout: 35:19–36:43
• AJ Brown vs. Devonta Smith Analysis: 41:04–43:29
• Jameson Williams Volatility: 46:50–48:00
• Bears Rookie Luther Burden as a Deep Flex: 56:06

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Summary Table: Notable Tiers, Players & Takeaways

| Tier | RB Focus (Notables) | WR Focus (Notables) | Key Takeaways | |--------|----------------------|---------------------|--------------| | 1 | McCaffrey, Gibbs, Brown | Rice, Pickens, Lamb | Start studs, don't overthink Thanksgiving slates; ride with upside backs like Chase Brown | | 2 | Henderson, Williams, Dowdle | Olave, A.J./Smith, Flowers, Wilson | Value committee backfields cautiously (Dowdle, Bucky), monitor injury returns closely | | 3 | Neal, Hunt, Pacheco | Shakir, Pittman, Dunze, Watson | Toss-up flex options, all share similar floor | | 4–5 | Mostert, Charbonnet | Mooney, Worthy, Pearsall, Iosivas | True dart throws—use only if desperate; prioritize matchups and snap trends |

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Final Thoughts

Dave and Alfredo deliver a highly actionable, entertaining rundown for Week 13, blending sharp football insights with fantasy philosophy and real-life empathy. Stick with your studs, embrace volatility when needed, and always remember that at the heart of fantasy football—and life—are the people, not just the numbers.

Happy Thanksgiving and good luck in Week 13!

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Listen to the full episode for more:
Footballguys Fantasy Football Show – Week 13 Rankings and Sleepers

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Transcript

[Alfredo]

Oh, hey, welcome to gift wrapping.

[Dave]

Whoa. So is Saldana.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Hey, can you wrap these, please?

[Dave]

Wow. IPhone 17s.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

You splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.

[Dave]

I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Well, it's better than socks.

[Dave]

So I have to trade in my old phone, right?

[Jenna Kim Jones]

No AT T Mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.

[Dave]

Incredible.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my aunt Rosa. Forget that. Aunt Liz will be jealous.

[Dave]

Sounds like my family drama.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with. Hey, where are you going?

[Dave]

To T Mobile. The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 monthly bill credits and 4 eligible board ins on essentials for well qualified customers bought or.

[Alfredo]

Pay, plus taxes, fees and $35 device.

[Dave]

Connection charge credits and depends balance due if you pay off early or cancel, contact us. Finance agreement. 256 GB.

[Alfredo]

$830 required.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Visit t mobile.com making the holidays magical. For everyone on your list, it's no small feat, but with TJ Maxx, your magic multiplies. With quality finds arriving daily through Christmas Eve, you'll save on luxe cashmere, the latest tech toys, and more. So you can check off every name on your list and treat yourself to a holiday look that'll turn heads. Now you know where to go to make all that holiday magic. It's TJ Maxx, of course. It's up to be a very magical holiday.

[Dave]

Fowler is saying that the Minnesota Vikings are going to pursue Daniel Jones this offseason. What are we doing?

[Alfredo]

What are we doing?

[Dave]

It's like breaking up with a girl in college and then seeing the marriage pictures and being like, I should call her.

[Alfredo]

It honestly is. It really, really is.

[Dave]

Like, dang, she looks good in that wedding dress. I wonder if she'll respond to my past.

[Alfredo]

I want to know, like, how does this. Where does this start? Right, Right. We're like, yeah, sure. Respected, you know, reporter Jeremy Fowler. Where does this start? Where someone is just in the Vikings headquarters and they're like, we should go after Daniel Jones next season, because this season's a wash. And then that report gets out, and then that leaks to another person. And then Jeremy Fowler is like, I gotta tweet this.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Alfredo]

What?

[Dave]

It's gotta tweet. I'm trying to get the story right now. Shared by Roto Underworld. Yeah, it might be some speculation here more than anything else.

[Alfredo]

So it's okay. So not a report. Speculation. Rumored that they would go after him.

[Dave]

Yeah, I'm reading the story right now. They're just saying that Daniel Jones would be an ideal fit in Minnesota because.

[Alfredo]

He already played there.

[Dave]

They really liked him. And the situation this offseason means that they're probably going to bring in quarterback competition for J.J. mcCarthy. So it's speculation. It's getting clicks. And, I mean, truth be told, it's a pretty hilarious headline to read.

[Alfredo]

It really is that, like, know what they're doing, right?

[Dave]

Know what they're. He knows what he's doing with that report.

[Alfredo]

That pissed me off. Like, just hearing it. It pissed me off because logically, I. I just go, if they liked him, they would have kept him, which they tried to.

[Dave]

If you remember, there were, like, a lot of reports that they tried to keep Daniel Jones, but apparently the. What we were hearing. I mean, there was a lot of weird reporting around Minnesota this year, but what it sounded like is that they wanted to keep Daniel Jones, but they said, you know, you're going to be in a competition with J.J. mcCarthy. Indianapolis basically said, you're going to be in competition with Anthony Richardson. And I think he liked his chances of beating out richardson Better than McCarthy, because you got to remember, like. But we look back, like, eight, nine months ago, dude, people thought J.J. mcCarthy was the truth. You know, like, there was so much hype this off season that, like, I go back, like, four weeks ago.

[Alfredo]

People thought he was the truth.

[Dave]

Like, there's. Yeah. And still entirely too early to write him off. You know, I'm not one to want to kick a young quarterback while he's down, but he won't write back. This is. This. This would be hilarious if. If they somehow end up with Daniel Jones next off season.

[Alfredo]

The Minnesota Vikings have signed Jameis Winston there.

[Dave]

Oh, my goodness.

[Alfredo]

I fixed it. I fixed the NFL. You're welcome.

[Dave]

That would be it right there. I mean, Jordan Addison, like, just catching bombs, Justin Jefferson doing Justin Jefferson, things like that. I mean, James Winston would fix a lot of problems for a lot of teams. He'd add some problems to some teams as well, but he at least fill seats. We must watch football every week.

[Alfredo]

Jameis would fix America, is what you're saying.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Alfredo]

That's. That's a documentary that I would watch. You know, like all the Anthony Bourdain, like, him traveling to different countries. We were talking about this in one of our meetings. We're just like a documentary a of Jameis Winston going around fixing various NFL franchises, but then also simultaneously not really fixing them at all. Like, he just goes in, starts a game and leaves. And he's on 17 different teams throughout the season. And then we do it again next year.

[Dave]

It doesn't even need to be football related. Like, it's just him giving the scope. Not even that. Like, I would just watch a travel show with Jameis Winston. Like, just put Jameis Winston in Scandinavia for a week with cameras. And I will watch every second of this. Like, oh, this is what I want. Yes. I don't want him. I've always said, like, I want him to be on like, you know, espn, NFL Network or something like that. No, no.

[Alfredo]

National Geographic, Travel Channel, Food Network, famous.

[Dave]

Winston travel, Food Show. This is. We got it.

[Alfredo]

Yes, I've got it. No, I've got it. I've got it. Jamis Winston is the next bachelor.

[Dave]

Oh, no, I think he's already married. I would want football related. I'd want all of the bachelorettes, like, all of the, you know, him just like courting 32 NFL GMs, like, not giving the rose to. No. Yes.

[Alfredo]

That's okay. So write this down. We're gonna. So this, this would replace free agency and the NFL draft. Right? Let's just do it this way. And we have prospects come in. They. They get courted by 32 different NFL GMs and they decide who they pick. And then when each one is picked, they get rem. I'm in. I'm in on this.

[Dave]

That's what we should do. Yeah, like the draft, free agency process. But there is one fan voted player every single year that gets to go through a reality style TV show. I'm. I'm hooked. I. I'm so into this.

[Alfredo]

Who would it have been this last year?

[Dave]

Daniel Shadur.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, Shadur. For rookies. Free agent. Free agent. Who.

[Dave]

Knowing what we know now, it probably should have been Cam Scatter Boo. Like a bachelor style show with Cam Scaboo would have been Must watch tv.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, I'm in on the. Okay, let's write a letter. We'll figure out who we gotta. We got to send this to. We'll write a letter.

[Dave]

Yeah. I'll tell my people to tell your people, and it'll be on NFL Network next week.

[Alfredo]

It's 2025. Anything can be solved with a handwritten letter. Welcome into week 13. We're taking a look at the players you going to be starting or the sleepers that you're not quite sure about. This is going to be a very different week. It's Thanksgiving and Black Friday week, so that means we've got games a little bit earlier. Lots of games in the Thursday and Friday slate. And Dave, what we are going to do today is we talked about this prior to the show. It felt kind of irresponsible on a Wednesday to talk about players that are playing on Sunday. Right. Like, it's just there's so many things that can happen, injuries, whatever it may be. We're going to focus primarily on the Thursday and Friday starts, but we're going to do this the same way, go through our tiers, go through our rankings and talk about some of the players that we like the most.

[Dave]

And I will say, like, compared to previous weeks, this week doesn't seem quite as crazy. Like it feels like every single week we record on Wednesday morning episode comes out and then I'm in the YouTube comments saying, hey, disregard this whole thing or hey, we know we found out that this is going to happen or hey, this player is going to be out. It does seem like for the most part we kind of know like, sounds like Drake London isn't going to play. Sounds like Brian Thomas Juniors were returning. Sounds like Isaiah Pacheco is coming back, Bucky Irving is coming back. I think the major question we have right now is probably Omarion Hampton. We don't know if he's returning or not. He's back in practice hoping to play. Ashton Jinty is another one that we are expecting not to play. So we've got a handful of pieces here that we don't really have a clear read on. But for the most part this seems like a relatively calm week injury wise.

[Alfredo]

I'll say this, the only thing that we do know about the NFL.

[Marketing Host]

Yeah.

[Alfredo]

But say the only thing we do know about the NFL is that we know absolutely nothing at all.

[Dave]

Right.

[Alfredo]

Because every time we think we know something, it just gets totally twisted up on us and they drop the UNO reverse card. Sorry, that's not the guy to start this week. So let's do this. Let's go through our tiers here. We did the same thing as always. We put our consensus rankings together for running backs and wide receivers. We're going to run through these. It'll probably end up being a shorter show because not as many players to talk about, but let's do this, Dave. Let's start with tier number one for the running backs. It's going to be running backs 1 through 8, Christian McCaffrey, Jameer Gibbs, Jonathan Taylor, Devon Achan, Bijan Robinson, James Cook, Derrick Henry and Chase Brown. Now, you and I both have Chase Brown. A little bit higher than football guys. Consensus actually. But I was happy to see you were one of the other people that are high on Chase Brown. We both have. I have him as my running back eight, you have him as the running back seven. So I like the matchup for him.

[Dave]

Yeah, I think the matchup is really good. But more than anything, it's just that we're seeing Chase Brown back to the player that he was last year and the player that we had hopes he would be when we drafted him. And I've said this multiple times this season on this show and on other shows. Whatever happened that that month with Jake Browning, that that was in real football. We don't have to take anything away from that. We don't have to add that to our samples. Like that was just fake football. That was really not fun to watch. And I don't think you can draw any real conclusions from there. But if you look over the six games with Joe Flacco, Chase Brown, he's been pretty darn good. I was looking on fantasy points data suite the other day, he has 72.3% of his team's rushing attempts. That is the second highest rate in the league behind only Jonathan Taylor. He has a 17.6% target share. That is the fourth highest rate trailing just Devon Ach, Christian McCaffrey and Jameer Gibbs. And the other thing is we're seeing the big plays. So the first five weeks of the season he had one play of 10 plus yards. Over the last six games he has had 14 plays of 10 plus yards. So the opportunity is there. The efficiency is bouncing back. We talk so much, Alfredo, about early season biases. Like whatever happens in the first few weeks, people just cling on to as truth for the rest of the season. And I think that a lot of people are saying Chase Brown was horribly inefficient. The offensive line sucks. The Bengals are terrible and they're holding on to this idea that Chase Brown is now like this back end or running back too, when the reality is over the last month and a half he's been a top five running back and this is exactly what we had hoped for.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, I mean, so Chase Brown, last couple weeks, running back 15 and running back 12 in PPR. That's over 200 rushing yards combined across those games. Now he goes up against the Ravens fourth fewest fantasy points to running backs of the last four games. But this is a game where there's going to be a little bit more passing than normal. Probably there's going to be a shootout back and forth. I know that these AFC north battles do tend to be a little sloppy. I got to imagine this is one where secondaries aren't great for either team, especially for the Bengals. It can be a get right game for Lamar. You got Joe Burrow back in there. Also no T. Higgins. I'm expecting a little bit more of those dump off passes to Chase Brown. But we same thing we kind of talked about last week. So we've seen a surge in receiving work. We've seen a surge in rushing work and efficiency for him. Yeah, Chase Brown, it's hard to not have him in the top 10 this week. So if you had any kind of, you know, worry about Chase Brown, I'm good with him exactly where he is. And same thing for Derrick Henry. Like, I just think that these are players. Don't overthink it. Don't get cute with it. I know it's Thanksgiving and it's a short week and things are weird. Just don't get cute with these guys.

[Dave]

And this thing, these, these Thanksgiving games typically do tend to be a little bit frustrating and low scoring just because the short week, the holiday, you know, people are already daydreaming about turkey with their family after the game and whatnot. But you know, what can you live with? Like if you have Chase Brown on your bench and he goes for 35 points, you don't want to be looking at that until like between Thursday and Sunday. So I, I'm not really factoring it in too much and I know a lot of people do and they say, you know, I want to give pause to these guys playing on Thanksgiving and Friday. I'm still just ranking it as is. Not putting too much consideration into the schedule.

[Alfredo]

Is it just me or. I feel like deep in my memory bank here, core memories. Running backs always have these monster games on Thanksgiving. It feels like every time we get towards the holidays, we've got Thanksgiving, we got Christmas, you got the Salvation army bucket down there by the end zone. It's consistently like two touchdown games for running backs. Even though these aren't high scoring games. We get major running back. Am I going crazy? Like, is that.

[Dave]

No, I don't have data.

[Alfredo]

I don't have data. It's just all. It's all my brain.

[Dave]

Yeah. I'm trying to think. I. I can. Like, something in my mind tells me that Marion Barber had a huge Thanksgiving game, and maybe I'm just, like, imagining that, but. Yeah.

[Alfredo]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Okay.

[Alfredo]

All right. I'm not going crazy here.

[Dave]

Let's go to Mary Harper. What a fun player.

[Alfredo]

Good times, man. Now we're just dudes. Naming dudes. That's. That's what football is.

[Dave]

Cordell Stewart. We're gonna keep going. Keep going.

[Alfredo]

All right, that's Max Strong, fullback. That's right. Let's go to tier number two here, where we start with running back nine. All the way through 19, we've got Saquon Barkley, Treveon Henderson, Kyron Williams, Josh Jacobs, Travis etn, Breeze Hall, Javante Williams, Omarion Hampton. We are treating him as if he is playing and starting. Rico Dowdle at 17, Bucky Irving. Same thing. Treating him as if he is playing and starting. And then 19. Jalen Warren, Dave, from this group, who sticks out to you most?

[Dave]

Trayveon Henderson. And, you know, we're both ranking him as kind of a fringe RB one. And I think people are so quick to point to the usage last week where Trayveon Henderson clearly out touched and outplayed Ramadre Stevenson. I don't know. I don't want to, like, be the. The wet towel here, but it does. You know, I wonder how much of Ramadre's limited usage was because he was coming back from an injury that put him out for almost a month. And we see this slow ramp up a lot of times when a player's coming back from turf toe. I still think you're starting Ramadre Stevenson as a plug and play, you know, RB2 at best. But I. I do wonder a little bit what this offense might look like this week, two weeks from now, three weeks from now, as Ramadre Stevenson gets further removed from that toe injury. So I'm not saying that bench Travion Henderson by any means. I do think that the cat is out of the bag to some extent, but I think that as Radre Stevenson gets healthier, we could see that tighten up a little bit to more of like a 60, 40, 70, 30 type of split.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, I think I'm with you on that.

[Dave]

I think we're saying nothing here. Like, you're still starting him. I'm just saying it's something to be somewhat cautious of going forward. Like, it's.

[Alfredo]

It's more of a, like, setting expectations.

[Dave]

Right. And I've seen, like, rest of season. People are saying Travion Henderson ahead of Omarion Hampton. I don't think I'm there because like Omarion Hampton isn't going to have somebody cutting into his workload or Trivion Henderson might.

[Alfredo]

I'll say this, we don't know that if, if we're going to be honest. Like, we don't like we. We assume. Right. But like, this is also the Jim Harbaugh and oh my gosh, I'm blanking Greg Roman offense where they do like to split things up a little bit. And now they have come on. If you do, maybe they're.

[Dave]

They.

[Alfredo]

They are going to try to keep their running back, their lead running back healthier. You know, we had to wait for an injury for Amarian Hampton to really get his run as well. So I, I would say it's not. I don't think it's apples and origins. I actually do think it's apples and apples right here for these guys. But I think Omarion Hampton has shown that he doesn't need as much passing work to be quite as valuable. But the Chargers offense just hasn't been as good as of late. Some of, some of these teams are really cooling down. Another team that I want to talk about that's cooling down as well has been or at least a part of this team that's been cooling down is the Cowboys run game. Javante Williams. Dave is a guy that we have here in this second tier. He's our consensus running back 15. He plays Thursday against the Chiefs. This is a tough matchup. He has not been as good for fantasy as of lately. He's been outside of the top 24 in a couple of these games. Looking back, running back 31, running back 26, running back 20. This is not the same guy that we were getting really hyped up about earlier on in the season. A lot of that has been no touchdowns, but the touches themselves have been there. He's averaging 22 to 25 touches per game. The volume is still there, which is why I think you and I both remain confident with him.

[Dave]

Yeah, and, and that's it. Like, the volume is there. The efficiency is there. Just three straight games without a touchdown and that causes people to panic. But we saw 22 touches last week. We saw 23 touches the week before. We saw 16 the week before. So I'm still treating Javante Williams as a good running back and a good offense. And yeah, I mean, like, if people are worried about the lack of touchdowns, those things typically do tend to regress the one other guy I want to talk about in this tier, Alfredo. And we were very aggressively high on Rico Dowdle. Like as soon as we saw the flashes from Rico Dowdle, we were like, boom, it's there. Drop all your fab, get this guy in your lineup. Talking about all the historical comps of things he had done that nobody else in NFL history have done. It was kind of weird last week to see Chuba hubbard getting over 40% of the touches, like really pushing this to a committee split. And I think that, you know, Rico Dodle still passes with flying colors. If you're just looking at the eye test, he looks the better player. But this is something that we did talk about a little bit when Sheba Hubbard was coming back from injury is that it was a calf injury. It clearly zapped his explosiveness. We were saying, you know, kind of like what we were just saying with Trayvon Henderson and Radre Stevenson, kind of a slow ramp up here. I do wonder if we are going to see this sort of 60, 40 split going forward. I mean, last week was weird. Carolina just like entirely abandoned the run. We didn't see a whole lot there. But Chuba Hubbard very involved in the passing game. He looked like he had a little bit more juice than he's had over the last few weeks. So I still think you're starting Rico dodle as an RB2, but I think a lot of the, you know, over the skis takes where people are saying this was a top five, top eight, plug and play running back going forward now I'm kind of looking at him more in that RB2 area.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, I mean, you're right in saying that he still looks better on film. I think. I don't want to overstate this either. Like, I still want to wait before making any big time judgment calls with him. Like just because we have the one. This happens all the time where we have one off game with a player even at running back where they don't get the volume we like and then they return back to it the very next week. The tough thing is that this is not a good week for that. They're going up against the Rams. Like this is a very tough matchup. However, where Rico has been effective is in the passing game. Four catches last week. So I think we're still going to see some of that there. You kind of have to hope he falls into the end zone. But it's honestly what stinks here with this is that like you can't even say what kind of Rico are we going to get this week. It's what kind of Bryce Young are we going to get? Because that is the, that, that's the whole crux of this offense.

[Dave]

And we saw four touches for Chuba harbor, or, I'm sorry, four receptions for Chuba Hubbard as well. So the, the passing down work is getting split a little bit. And again, like, don't hear what we're not saying. We're talking about the guys way up in our rankings. You're still starting these guys, but most weeks, you know, we were looking at Rico Dowdle as a top eight guy, top 10 at worst. And now this week you've got him in RB16, him in RB19. We're basically just acknowledging that we saw Chuba Hubbard a little bit more involved last week than he has been since returning from injury. And the tough matchup.

[Alfredo]

Last thing to talk about from this. And I know we, we kind of said we didn't want to have to speculate on these guys, but I just want to do it anyways for conversation sake. Bucky Irving, if he's back as the starter, are you kind of, are you expecting the same thing as me where I do expect Bucky to get the majority of the carries or touches, but I expect it to be more of like a 60, 20, 20 type deal or however you want to split those up? Like, I don't see Bucky going back to being at a 75 work share like he was prior to the injury.

[Dave]

And I think he will be a month from now. Like, you know, he's a guy that I've been trying to get while he's been injured, just hoping that he can get back to the, the Bucky Irving of old during the fantasy playoffs. But I think there will be a little bit of a ramp up here also. Alfredo, I'm sure you saw like the story about Bucky Irving just heartbreaking stuff. Like this is a lot more than just an injury he's coming back from. Lost his grandmother and his brother recently, and it seems like he has kind of been masking some of those issues with just playing through football. And now he's facing the first major injury of his career dating back to high school. And I think just being away from the game weighed on him mentally a little bit. So regardless of what happens this week, like just praying that Bucky Irving can get his mind right because, you know, this is something you and I are both talk about, you know, mental health awareness, like, it's a very real thing. And he has been kind of open about his struggles mentally so more than anything else, more than the, you know, the, the, the production and the fantasy projections and all these sorts of things, just hoping that Bucky Irving can, you know, get, get his mind right and get back on track and feel healthy physically and mentally.

[Alfredo]

And I gotta say, man, I've seen the comments of people that are already dogging Bucky Irving for this kind of stuff. Don't be that person. Don't be that person. Because we do not know what people go through. Remember that. These are people, right?

[Dave]

They're.

[Alfredo]

They're not just players. They are people. And we need to know, like, they are going through things off the field that we don't know about. We are not in their shoes. Like, let's, let's just be humans. How about that? Former fantasy football managers or analysts or anything. Let's just be humans. Please. Please. All right, let's go to the next tier on here. And this is going to be our tier. Number three, running backs, 20 through 27. We got Quinshon Judkins, RJ Harvey, Tyrone Tracy, Ken Walker III, Woody Marks, Aaron Jones, DeAndre Swift, and Trey Benson. Dave. From this group, DeAndre Swift is the only one that's going to be playing in the early slate of games. Bears, Eagles, Friday. Sure, yeah. Revenge. Why not?

[Dave]

But Swift's coming off revenge game. How fun. He gets three of those this year. Twice against the Lions, once against the Eagles.

[Alfredo]

We need to do that one day where we just make like the all, like, all revenge team circuit. Whereas you just kind of create a starting lineup of. It's okay. You got either Joe Flacco or James at quarterback. You got DeAndre Swift. What do you. Mac Hollins can get in there. Bell.

[Dave]

He loves talking about revenge games. And it got to a point a couple of years ago where like every week he was like a revenge game for Ryan Fitzpatrick. I'm like, I get it, Jeff. Like, Ryan Fitzpatrick gets a revenge game every single time he steps on the field.

[Alfredo]

Just the guy. He's like, it's a revenge game for Hunter Long. Get ready, everybody. But, but, yeah. So my concern here is too, is like, DeAndre Swift, once again, we've talked about this with previous running backs. Like Rico Dowdle is. You'll have the one game where you're just like, oh, that was ugly. It's. It's about differentiating between what is just a one off and what is the start of a trend, right? And so with DeAndre Swift, 15 yards on eight carries last week. Not great. No touchdowns in three straight games. We're Starting to see snaps are deviating a little bit here and there. Like there's just enough things that do start to get me worried about DeAndre Swift. I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water but. But there's enough here that makes me say I don't know if I can trust him every week going forward.

[Dave]

I mean, Ben Johnson is true to his word. He said he is going to take a hot hand approach with this backfield. And every single week we've seen like a drive going to Swift, a drive going to Manungai. Whoever gets better in those first opening touches ends up getting the work in the second half. And this was the first time that we saw Manungai look better last week. And like I said, Ben Johnson, true to his word, that that was kind of it for DeAndre Swift, like he looked bad in the first couple of series and then didn't really see the ball for the rest of the game. This is the frustrating thing with DeAndre Swift. You can have these big games like we saw it coming out of the buy where this guy was just consistently giving us 100 plus yards every single game. And now we're seeing Common on guys start to look a little bit better, getting a little bit more comfortable up to NFL speed. I don't think that this is going to happen every single week where Common on guy is going to out touch DeAndre Swift, but it could happen on any given week. Which means this guy DeAndre Swift we were looking at is like a top 15 running back. Now kind of falls into this like really shaky floor back end RB2 area.

[Alfredo]

Would you say that both of them are sort of in flex consideration like the understood. Probably low end RB2 Manangai, probably low end RB3 where you're just hoping for a touchdown there each week?

[Dave]

Absolutely. And that's what it is. I think, you know, DeAndre Swift gives you a slightly higher ceiling and a slightly higher floor, but we saw it flip last week. So for people who did start Manungai, you know, they were desperate and they had to put somebody in their flex spot. It wasn't that pretty. Like you didn't have any receptions but you got in the end zone and 48 yards and like that'll give you, you know, 10 plus PBR points and that'll play.

[Alfredo]

So Manung guy, did you consider him a flex play this week going up against the Eagles?

[Dave]

I think you've got to every single week just because like this, you know, it's the, the, the Jamal Williams of It like might not be pretty, but he's got two touchdown upside on any given week. Like you see it once this Bears team gets inside the red zone, they have the third lowest passover expected rate. Like they are just going to run, run, run, run, run until they get into the end zone. And they obviously very clearly performing on guy in that role over Swift.

[Alfredo]

You know, I said that this would be a shorter show, but it's really not turning out to be that because there's still enough guys to talk about.

[Dave]

One other guy I want to talk about in this tier too. I'm sorry, I don't want to hang on too much here.

[Alfredo]

Let's get a three hour show.

[Marketing Host]

I'm in.

[Dave]

Tyrone Tracy, man, I think a lot of people are like knocking him right now and I saw like I was way ahead of consensus in my rankings then I saw that you are just about there as well, lack of touchdowns. And I think that that has made a lot of people think that this is like the Devin Singletary show in New York now. But the reality is Mike Kafka has taken over. Tyrone Tracy is averaging 17.9 expected points per game. He's handled 39 rushing attempts, eight targets, 269 scrimmage yards over the last two weeks. This guy is quietly like getting kind of RB1 treatment and just hasn't scored touchdowns. So I don't think people are really privy to it yet. But he is 13th in the league in expected points over the last two weeks. He's a guy that I think that you can kind of confidently start as an RB2 and I see him in a lot of start sit discussions that he, he shouldn't be involved in. Like if he just had one touchdown over these last couple of weeks, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. But the lack of touchdowns are really kind of clouding how awesome his workload has been.

[Alfredo]

But I mean it's not even like he's been bad. He was running back 13 and running back 12 without touchdowns. What he's doing is he's making plays in the open field, he's been catching passes, being able to make big run after catch plays there. And like that's something we've already known that Tyrone Tracy can do. The running is inconsistent and that's to be expected with a team like the New York Giants. But, but last game we see 70% snapshare, right? Like we're, we're seeing more and more for Tyrone Tracy. So yeah, I think that's weird if people are going to have him ranked really low, Dave, like, let me just double check our rankings because, yeah, like, I've got him as my running back 24, you're a bit higher. You got him at running back 20. Like he needs to be an RB two week in and week out.

[Dave]

Yeah, completely agree.

[Alfredo]

All right, good. Same page. Glad we did that. Let's go. Next tier here. This is going to be tier number four. Starting from running back 28 through 35, Kenneth Gainwell, Devin Neal, David Montgomery, Kareem Hunt, Chris Rodriguez, Bashel Tutin, Isaiah Pacheco, and Ramondre Stevenson. This is where it gets fun, Dave. There's. I mean, there's a million. Sure. Fun. Honestly, we say this a lot and it always sounds like a cop out, but this feels so true. Running backs 28 through 35 to me, are all the same person. I do not have like any big difference between any of them. Kenneth Gainwell might catch six passes for 60 yards. Chris Rodriguez might get three carries for a touchdown. These guys are pretty much all the same in terms of expectation for fantasy football.

[Dave]

I think Devin Neal is the one, to me that kind of stands out. Just like the mystery box. Like, you know, he could be anything, even an artist.

[Alfredo]

Even Devin Neal, right?

[Dave]

I mean, like, I. I think there's intriguing upside here. And we talked about Devon Hill a little bit on the waiver wire show yesterday. Neither of us were like huge fans of the prospect. But we do see this a lot, where these rookies come in late in the season with fresh legs and they get the opportunity and it ends up being huge down the stretch. I mean, we talked about it before Samir White and Ty Chandler, these years that they were league winners. They're not good running backs, but they were fresh and they got the opportunity at the end of the season. Sometimes that's all that matters. So, you know, I could sit here and pick nits in Devin Neal's profile, but I'm not going to do that. He's a volume based play on a bad offense and there's a lot of red flags there. But that hasn't mattered historically for a lot of other running backs that have been in similar situations.

[Alfredo]

Some other guys that I want to take a look at here, Kareem Hunt, this is a guy that I think people have been able to start every single week over the last few weeks here because there's been no Isaiah Pacheco. But with Pacheco, go back now you've got Hunt, who scored a touchdown in four straight games, and you got a good matchup. Dallas allows the six most fantasy points to running backs. They've been a little better over the last month or so, allowing the 14th most fantasy points of the last four weeks. This becomes a very different player that you're looking at with Isaiah Pacheco back. I think you're just hoping for a touchdown, but you're not expecting the same kind of volume.

[Dave]

Yeah. And this is. I don't know what, what to do with these Chiefs running backs. I think, you know, this is very, to me kind of similar to like Zach sharpening, Ken Walker sort of thing. Except that they have. Yeah. Like in Seattle, there isn't a guy coming in and siphoning in three to four targets per game like they have with Prashard Smith. So, I mean, neither of these guys catch a ton of passes. It seems like Kareem Hunt is the preferred guy near the goal line. We don't know how Isaiah Pacheco is going to come back from this knee injury. Like, truth be told, he didn't look that good before the knee injury and now if he's battling this, like, might look even worse. So, you know, they're, they're running backs on the Chiefs. It's a good offense. There could be scoring opportunities. I think they both just kind of fall into that RB3 bucket. But any hopes that one of them would run away with the job, I think those are starting to look pretty bleak.

[Alfredo]

And I think if anything, what they do is they each just kind of cancel out each other because Burchard Smith sort of has his role as like, what he does. It's not a big role, but he is the definitive pass catcher, move around the. Move around the formation guy. Whereas these guys sort of just eat away at each other. Kareem Hunt and Isaiah Pacheco. And it's super annoying. I, I wonder, Dave, because we've got them ranked. So similarly, if you're looking at this week, Kareem Hunt or Kyle Manungai, where are you going here?

[Dave]

I prefer Kareem Hunt, I guess.

[Alfredo]

Right.

[Dave]

Just because it's a better matchup, a better offense.

[Alfredo]

But I've got Kareem Hunt two spots higher than Minangai.

[Dave]

Yeah. And I've got Kareem Hunt a few spots ahead of Manangai. And really, like, I'm a little bit lower on Monongai this week just because the Eagles have a really good front seven. Especially like, you know, these touchdowns that we've seen Manangai punching in, they're going to be a little bit harder to come by this week. Like, the Chiefs match up a little bit more, but, man, like, you really don't want to be relying on these guys this week, and I know you probably are because that's where we are at this point in the season. There's been a lot of injuries, but, yeah, I mean, with Kareem Hunt, with Common on guy, you're hoping they can fall into the own, and I think Kareem Hunt's probably more likely to do that.

[Alfredo]

All right, let's do the last tier here. Not much to talk about from this one, but 36 through 41. Zach Charbonnet, KyleManungai, Tyler Algier, Raheem Mostert, Taji Spears, Tony Pollard. We've talked enough about Common Unguy, so I don't want to keep, you know.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Alfredo]

Beating that drum. Raheem Moser is the guy to talk about here, because right now we're kind of assuming that Ashton Jensen doesn't play, but we still don't even have Raheem Mostert as an RB3. Are we. Are we making a mistake or is this just. We're waiting to find out more information, or is this exactly where we see Raheem Mostert, like, a player who's not. He's a little past his prime on an offense that's not very good? Where are we at?

[Dave]

And I see that I'm, like, 35 spots higher on Zemir White than you are. I think that's my expectation is that we're going to see, like, an ugly mix of Rahi Moser and Zamir White on a bad offense. We also don't know what this is going to look like without Chip Kelly. Like, I'm hoping that a new offensive coordinator is just going to say, hey, we got this guy Brock Bowers. Let's get the ball to him 20 times. And, like, we don't even have to mess around with a run game here. But, yeah, this offensive line is terrible. Like, we're looking at Ashton Jinty, like, one of the best prospects to come into the league in the last decade, and he can't get anything going behind this offensive line. I don't have a lot of faith that Raheem Mostert and Zemir White will.

[Alfredo]

Same, same. All right, let's go on over to the wide receivers here.

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[Alfredo]

Dave, we're gonna do our tier number one. This is wide receivers one through 10. There are two players from this tier that are going to be playing on Thursday. We have no advice for you on Rasheed Rice and Jamar Chase. Start them.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Alfredo]

There you go. We did it. We'll see you next week. Adios. Let's go. Wide receivers 1 through 10 here. Rasheed Rice, Jackson Smith, the Jigba, Jamar Chase, puka Nakua, Amano St. Brown, George Pickens, C.D. lamb, Devonte Adams, Jalen Waddle and Nico Collins. Dave, anyone here that you. You really want to talk about? I think that these are all pretty straightforward. Just, just unless something crazy happens, you're starting them. I. I will say I think it's incredibly interesting that we've got two rams, we've got two cowboys up in this, in this game. Oh, I'm sorry. We do have more guys playing CD Lamb and George Pickens are also playing on Thanksgiving.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean we see this like these are consolidated offenses with good quarterbacks that really focus on their two top guys. I didn't check. Do you have a CD Lamb or George Pickens? All right. Yeah. You still got.

[Alfredo]

I got Lamb one spot ahead. I don't feel great about it. This is, this is sort of me being the old man. That's like, like no VHS is better than, than digital. Like that's just kind of where I'm at. No, I can't believe I just compared CD Lamb to vhs. Like, it's not even the same. This is more of just like, I know what I've seen throughout their careers, and I'm just. One spot of difference isn't really, you know, making or breaking it.

[Dave]

Yeah, I'm just making a stance here with mine. Like, it doesn't mean anything. You're starting CB Lamb, you're starting George Pickens. But, my goodness, George Pickens has been really good. He was the wide receiver two without CD Lam. He's been the wide receiver five with CD Lam. Like, you know, I. I was totally wrong. When CD Lamb came back, I dropped George Pickens, like, 15 spots in my rest of the season rankings. I'm like, that was a fun month. Now back to the CD Lamb, and George Pickens has just outscored him over the last five weeks. I mean, it is unbelievable what's happening in Dallas, but we can't ignore it. You know, at a certain point, you are what your fantasy production says you are. We are 12 weeks into the season, and George Pickens is the wide receiver, too. In fantasy.

[Alfredo]

I mean, Dave, he said nine. Nine targets or more in four straight games. Like, there's. We talked about this in previous episodes. Like, there is something that goes with chemistry. When you have a wide receiver and quarterback that have chemistry, that they are able to trust each other. They know exactly when to look for the ball, the quarterback knows exact to throw it out of a route. These things do take time. But once that timing is there. And yes, George Pickens, whether you want to believe it or not, is a timing player. It's there now. It's there now. So you've got this actually.

[Dave]

Who's the better.

[Alfredo]

Who's the better trio between Dak, Pickens, Lamb versus Burrow, Chase and Higgins.

[Dave]

I'm gonna go with Stafford, Puka and Adams. Can I.

[Alfredo]

There you go. There you go. I forgot about them, too. Yeah, that's fine.

[Dave]

I mean, we do have these, like, just. Just amazing trios right now where, like, nobody else on the offense really matters. Like, it's just kind of cool that we're at this point right now. Like, if T. Higgins was playing this week, he'd probably be in our top 12 as well. It's kind of crazy to think that, like, half of the wide receiver ones this year are coming from three offenses.

[Alfredo]

By the way, Eagles fans, stay out of the comments. Don't. Let's not do this.

[Dave]

Let's not I mean like, if they didn't have Saquon Barkley, if they were in like had had a different play caller, where they were forced to throw. Not even forced to throw, but where they just chose to throw the way. Yeah, they'd be in that discussion as well. But the reality is it is a very low volume passing attack. And that's why we have Devonta Smith and A.J. brown as high end wide receiver twos and not inside that top 12.

[Alfredo]

Can we. I'm sorry, I hate to do this. I'm going to put you on the spot. Can we go back and revisit your Chargers wide receiver room? Where do you. Where would you have them now? It's a different room. Now.

[Dave]

It is a different room. Quentin Johnson's been dealing with the injury. Keenan Allen turned into an old moldy pumpkin.

[Alfredo]

Still leading the team in targets.

[Dave]

Still think they're a good trio. I mean, I'll still take like Keenan Allen, who's The wide receiver 3 over Jahan Dotson and Andre Yosevash and Vante Turpin. Is that the wide. I don't even know who the wide receiver three is in Dallas. Like maybe Tolbert, Jalen Tolbert, but I don't know. I. I like Turpin more than I like Tolbert.

[Alfredo]

Well, now, now I have to look.

[Dave]

I mean, I think on the depth chart it's Jalen Tolbert, but I think Cavante Turpin.

[Alfredo]

Actually, no, it's Turpin.

[Dave]

Yeah, it's.

[Alfredo]

It's Turping. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that. All right, let's get back to real fantasy football talk that you guys are here for tier number two. This is a bigger one. This is wide receivers 11 through 22. We got a few guys in this tier that are gonna be playing on Thursday and Friday. So let's start with at 11, Chris Alave, then Tedro McMillan, AJ Brown, Lad McConkey, Devonte Smith, Zay Flowers, Justin Jefferson, Michael Wilson. It's real. Yeah, all. And it's spectacular. Stefan Diggs, Emeka Igbuka, Wondale Robinson, Jameson Williams. Really quick, just before we hop into the players that are on Thursday and Friday, Michael Wilson. Is this just like. Just start them. Just start them every single week as you're set and forget it. Wide receiver two until Marvin Harrison Jr. Is back. Like Jacoby Brissette is just. He's also another guy. You can start every single. I've got a team with Jacoby Brissette and Justin Herbert and I'm starting Jacoby Brissette over Justin Herbert. Herbert again.

[Dave]

I mean, I saw Frank Amarante over at Roto Baller. He tweeted out yesterday or last week before the games kicked off that he was starting Michael Wilson ahead of Justin Jefferson and got so much pushback for it, as I'm sure you could imagine on Twitter. Well, Michael Wilson outscored Justin Jefferson for the second week in a row. I mean, it is wild what we are seeing here right now. Long term, I don't know what's going to happen with the Cardinals, like if and when Marvin Harrison Jr. Returns. Kyler Murray is technically able to return in week 14. There's a lot of speculation on Arizona that he has played his final snap for the Cardinals and they're going to move on this off season. We don't know what to expect if this is what we see going forward. A Jacoby Brissette led offense and Marvin Harrison missing extended time. Michael Wilson is going to be a league winner. But you know, the calculus is going to change a little bit once we have to put Marvin Harrison Jr. Back in there. And if Kyler Murray returned, then it really changes for the worse.

[Alfredo]

Man, just, just insane to have a.

[Dave]

Player imagine, imagine if we knew we were having this conversation three months ago. Like, oh man, we really don't want Kyler Murray to return. This Jacoby Brissette offense has been so good for fantasy this.

[Alfredo]

We don't want Marvin Harrison Jr. To come back. This Michael Wilson's really taken off.

[Dave]

Jacoby Brissette, Michael Wilson out playing Kyler Murray and Marvin Harrison Jr. Yeah, that's where we are.

[Alfredo]

I mean they're out playing Baker Mayfield and a Mecca Buka now who like two months ago we were talking about Rookie of the Year and potential mvp. Here we are. Look at you NFL, you dirty sons of. All right, let's keep going through this tier because we got both the Eagles wide receivers. We've got A.J. brown at 13, Devonte Smith at 15. Dave or what's the confidence level? Confidence meter one to 10 on Eagles passing offense right now because it has been up and down, mostly down. And then you get like a squeaky wheel game and then you get a big touchdown game for Devontae Smith. Where are you at with them?

[Dave]

I think you just gotta keep certain to both, like we say wide receiver twos because they fall inside the top 24.

[Alfredo]

But there are 40 wide receiver twos in fantasy football, right?

[Dave]

And like looking at these rankings, I think once you get past Chris Alave, like Chris Alave is the last guy I'd kind of consider a wide receiver too. I think from there on out, AJ Brown, Lad McConkey, DeVonta Smith, Zay Flowers, Justin Jefferson and all of these guys are, they feel more like wide receiver threes than they do like wide receiver dues. And you're putting them in your lineup. But like even when we're doing these rankings like AJ Brown and then you jump all the way down to like our next tier where we have Roma, Dunes A and Troy Franklin and Michael Pittman and like I don't feel that much better about putting A.J. brown in my lineup than I do over those guys. Like it is just so flat once you get through that first like 12 to 15 receivers this year. So yeah, you're putting them in your lineup. You can have the big games. But again, as I said earlier in the show, you kind of are what your fantasy production says you are. At a certain point in the season, Devonta Smith is outscoring A.J. brown. He has more of the team's air yard share. He has a deeper target depth, he has more targets. And even the crazy thing, he's got more yards after the catch too. Like he is besting A.J. brown in almost every single metric this year and by a very, very slim margin. But at a certain point, like I don't know if A.J. j. Brown's hurt, I don't know if he is just washed, if the age is catching up to him or what is going on. But Devonta Smith is kind of playing as the better receiver this year in.

[Alfredo]

Philadelphia and Bears secondary has been rough throughout the year. Like I, I know Nishan Wright got himself an interception last week, but it was like thrown right. Adam, if, if we're being honest, leaving.

[Dave]

The league in interceptions. Naysha Wright out of nowhere like he's, he's been making some spectacular plays.

[Alfredo]

He's a, he's, he's been one of those guys like early in the season he was struggling a ton. He's been one of those hitter similar to, to Duron Bland a couple years ago where he was like leading the league in interceptions but also just getting smoked half the time. You know, like that's, that's sort of what it is one of those like make or break defensive backs. But it's, it's a good matchup for the Eagles receivers. Like you said, Devonte Smith has been the guy leading the team in targets over the last few weeks here. A.J. brown, everything was sort of intentionally schemed up. We talked about that. But devontae Smith, even with that still posted a season high and Expected fantasy points last week. Like this is still, I think out of the two, the player that I feel more confident with going forward. But there's, there's, there's something in me that keeps ranking AJ Brown higher. Like I keep getting that little voice that tells me the upside is there, the upside is there. I, I don't know what it is.

[Dave]

And here's the weird thing with Devonta Smith too. He is out scoring A.J. brown on the year, but he only has one game with more than 20 PPR points. Like it has been just like steady, consistent wide receiver 2 value every single week, but there hasn't really been much of a ceiling. And you keep hoping with A.J. brown like, you know it's in his wheelhouse that he can have this 200 yard, two touchdown game. And that's why we're holding on to hope. But it just has not come to fruition this year.

[Alfredo]

Upside. He screamed into the clouds as he shook his fist. Talk about two other guys in this tier that are also going to be playing on Thanksgiving. Zay Flowers going up against the Bengals and then Jameson Williams up against the Packers. Dave, you and I have Zay Flowers ranked quite a bit ahead of Jameson Williams here. Zay has not really popped off the way we have wanted him to. They're just, we haven't seen the touchdowns the way we've wanted to. He continues to lead the team in, in targets and be like the top guy, but that has not meant anything. And we've kind of seen Lamar Jackson struggling. Is this the get right game for Lamar and Zay against the Bengals?

[Dave]

I mean, we have seen historically, Lamar Jackson just crushes Cincinnati when he gets face off against them. And I hope this is the get right game. Like he started the week as a full participant in practice for the first time in the last couple of weeks. So hopefully that's a sign that he's trending in the right direction. But watching that game last week, week, that is not the Lamar Jackson that I have grown to watch. He was like apprehensive. He didn't want to use his legs. Like even when he would kick it into second gear. Like it just wasn't really like the explosiveness wasn't there. And I get it. Like he's dealt with multiple injuries this year. That is tough to come back from. Like he's had an ankle, a foot, I think a hamstring. Like there have been multiple lower body injuries that he's dealing with this year. And with Zay Flowers, it's frustrating because to me I. I hate to say this, but it feels so similar to Hollywood Brown all over again, where you look at the underlying metrics and it's like, this guy's top 10 in Target chair. He's got this great target depth. He can make plays after the catch, but for whatever reason, like, it just doesn't translate to fantasy production. And I felt like we did this for five years with Marquis Brown just saying, like, this is the year and it never happened. Zay Flowers has a very similar analytical profile, even the same college prospect profile. And it's kind of the same story now that, like, he's pulling the targets, he's making the plays, but he just doesn't score touchdowns.

[Alfredo]

There's just something that I don't think data can always capture. And, like, there's just times where there are going to be intangibles that we can't define through numbers that won't lend itself to target shares and to all the numbers that we love to look into. It's just not there. Like, sometimes there's just chemistry that's missing from players and it's just not there. But I think, you know, you and I, we still have him as a wide receiver, too, this week. I think that's where we can keep him because of the matchup, because we're expecting a get right game for Lamar. The other guy from this tier to talk about is Jameson Williams coming off of, weirdly to say, his highest snap share percentage of the season. And then worst game of the season.

[Dave]

Who would have you can say his worst game, but it's the second time he scored zero points, so sure. Just tied his worst case.

[Alfredo]

I think this one was more upsetting, though, because there had been two big time boom games and you're like, all right, we're here. We've made it. Everyone nobody looked at Jameson Williams last week was like, well, I'm not gonna start that guy. Everyone started him. And then he gives you this goose.

[Dave]

Too late in the game, like, was wide open, separated golf put it on him and he just like, ball hit his hands. And then he just like, as he was pulling the ball in, just like scooped it and threw it out of bounds. And it's like, oh, my goodness.

[Alfredo]

Like, just play called back as well. Yeah.

[Dave]

Like, there's Jameson Williams experience. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.

[Alfredo]

It's.

[Dave]

It's fun. We're. We're having so much fun.

[Alfredo]

One I got it. Jameson Williams and Jameis Winston together.

[Dave]

There you go.

[Alfredo]

That would be sweet music for the NFL.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Alfredo]

Sweet, sweet music. Okay. So he's got a tough matchup against the Green Bay secondary. We are in. It's funny. I can't believe I'm gonna say this. We are indoors, which means there's always the possibility of Jared Goff having himself a big game. Is that playing at all into your rankings?

[Dave]

We're both going right back to it. Like, I think a lot of people would see that zero point game and say, like, all right, out of my top 30, and you and I are both still holding it down, getting them inside the top 25. You know, you live by the Jameson and you die by the Jameson. And we may have died last week, but hoping for resuscitation in week 13.

[Alfredo]

I was about to said the alcoholic Dave's not an alcoholic, guys. Just Jameson. It was a joke.

[Dave]

No, I started Jameer Gibbs last week and lost in my home. You are so brave, Jameson. Jameson Williams. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna keep starting him, whatever. You know, variance. We. We love it.

[Alfredo]

Ah, fantasy football. You're a cruel mistress. All right, next here, there's gonna be wide receivers 23 through 31. Khalil Shakir, Michael Pittman Jr. Roma Dunze, Troy Franklin, Juwan Jennings, Cortland Sutton, Devo Samuel. DK Metcalf, Christian Watson. And for those of you that are listening that are like, dude, I can't keep track of all his names. You said him too far.

[Dave]

Fast.

[Alfredo]

Head on over to YouTube. We've got all the names listed for you right there. Or head on over to footballguys.com check out our rankings. You can see our rankings or everyone else's rankings. If you really don't like us, but you like to hate, listen, you know, just. Just. Just do that. All right, Dave. From this group, we have two players that are going to be playing on Thursday and Friday. Roma Dun and Christian Watson. This is weird to start to have Roma Dun down this low when earlier in the season it was all but certain every week you were just putting him in as a top 10 wide receiver. Now he didn't make the top 24 for us this week.

[Dave]

Yeah, and. And this is something that we did talk about a lot in the off season. There are a lot of mouths to feed in this Bears offense, and Ben Johnson wants to spread the ball around. Now, the. The weird thing is, like, we're not seeing one person step up and be Roman Dunes. A doing what Roman Dunes is. It's just that there's just enough of everybody else. Colston Loveland's getting a little bit more involved. Luther Burden's. Getting a little bit more involved. DJ Moore has been thing over the last couple of weeks and the ball is getting spread really thin and I think this is great for Caleb Williams like to be able to not have to rely on one player. You know, find the open guy, get the ball to him. Frustrating for Roma Dunze, but I think this is kind of where he needs to be at this point. Just kind of in that back end wide receiver 2 discussion because you know you can only look at the usage metrics so much and and this is again like the early season bias that we talk about. A lot of people are still holding on to hope that Roma dunes is this wide receiver one when the reality is that since the buy he hasn't been anywhere near that.

[Alfredo]

No and I'm a little worried this week too with the matchup going up against Quinon Mitchell who has just been a super it's crazy the Eagles piss me off so much because how do they do this every draft? Like a good player just starts falling down the draft board and they're like well we'll take that. That guy right there. Yeah, he's really good. And Quinton Mitchell absolutely crushed the pre draft process and he was one of the best corners at the the best corner at the Senior bowl by many people. He was regarded as the best corner in the draft draft. Then he fell to them starts as a rookie, has some bumps and bruises here and there but plays well and yet this year he has just fully taken off. Dave he is just shut down material when he's out there and he'll be matched up against Roma dunes this game. That has me a bit worried.

[Dave]

It's not just him, it's Midori Jackson and Cooper De Jane. Like they just have a really, really good secondary here. So they also have a really good front seven that can stop the run game. So shocker. Eagles good team top to bottom in case you didn't know.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, the super bowl champions are good at football. Yeah, the defense has been playing better as of late. Like this was a team that was struggling earlier in the season. Now the injuries are coming undone, the defense is gelling. Vic Fangio's got them playing some really good ball. Other guy in here, Christian Watson, Green Bay packers wide receiver Dave, it's, it's a weird time in the Green Bay receiving room but, but Christian Watson has had himself some big games. Romeo Dobbs is a guy that we'll probably talk about in just a little bit, but Watson's been the better fantasy performer as of late. And he's been getting a lot of intermediate usage. Lions play a lot of man coverage. So this is going to be something where Christian Watson can win against man like this actually plays really well into Watson's strength. So I think he just remains one of those guys. He's a wide receiver three. But you love the upside that's there. You actually have him ranked higher than me. So I, I know you have them. We're the same. We Both have wide receiver 30.

[Dave]

Yeah, I have him higher than DK Metcalf, which was weird to see in my rankings this week.

[Alfredo]

Yeah, I got there and I was like, I can't do that just yet. But I'm close. So what has you. Are you feeling the same way about Christian Watson?

[Dave]

Yeah, I mean it's, I think you hit it on the head that he's been seeing some of those intermediate targets where early in his career he was like strict a deep threat. Which is fun because you know, that's when you're seeing those, those big, huge blow up games. But if you can start getting some of that other work as well, then that can raise the floor for him, which has always kind of been the, the big issue here. So, you know, we're just seeing this steady increase. Three weeks ago he had two receptions, four receptions the next week, five receptions the next week. We just keep seeing that tick up as he gets further removed from this ACL injury. This is also one of the first times that I have Christian Watson ranked ahead of, of Romeo Dubs. Like, to me, Christian Watson is the guy that you want to start here. Looks like Jaden Reed might be back. That's another one that like, we don't have the, the full picture on yet, but it'll be interested to see what happens when Jaden Reed's also back in the fold.

[Alfredo]

Do you trust the one? I don't think he comes back on a short week like this. Probably not because the packers are always super weird about that. But even if he were to come back, I don't trust the packers this week to do anything with him. Like I, I'd expect a bunch of pomp and circumstance. Jade Reed is back and then he's gonna get, get a 14 snapshare, two touches and we get Ricky Pearsalled. Like that's.

[Dave]

Keep him stash on your IR spot if you can. Because here's the one thing I think the Tucker Craft injury does open a possibility for Jaden Reed to be very fantasy relevant because Jaden Reed can't make it on the field. On two wide receiver sets. But when he's able to play in 11 personnel out of the slot, where he gets these free releases where he can catch the ball off the middle of the field, that's when we see Jaden Reed doing really good things. And I think that without Tucker Craft, they're going to be relying on a of lot, a lot more 11 personnel, which just means more snaps and more routes for Jaden Reed. So, yeah, definitely want to take a wait and see approach when he does return. But he's a guy that I was shocked to see was available in a lot of leagues. I picked him up in some last week, picked him up in some more this week. I've just got him stashed on my IR spot to see what happens over the next few weeks.

[Alfredo]

Okay, let's do this. We've got two tiers here that we did, kind of small. Each of them it's wide receivers 32 through 46. We're just going to list a bunch of players here here, but we're going to talk about the ones that are playing on Thursday and Friday. Okay, so at 32, we've got Darnell Mooney, then Alec Pierce, Quentin Johnston, Jacoby Myers, Keenan Allen, DJ Moore, Xavier Worthy, Romeo Dobbs, Ricky Pierce, all Trey Tucker, Andre Yosef, Chimary, dk, Luther Burden, Jaden Higgins, Parker Washington. So let's do this, Dave. DJ Moore and Luther Burden. The Bears receivers we talked about Romeo, excuse me, Roma Dunze being a tough guy to start this week. Is there a little. Even though we had these guys ranked behind them, is there a little more excitement maybe about these guys because the expectations aren't as high. Do they become sort of the high upside, flex appeal guys?

[Dave]

Yeah, and I think that's it. Expectations, Romanoons, you're definitely starting ahead of these other guys, but you know, you're not feeling good about the. The wide receiver one you thought you had or DJ Moore was a guy that, you know, a month ago we were saying you might want to drop this guy. Like, I don't even know if he's still rosterable at this point. And then he has the game with a couple touchdowns. He's a little bit more involved. He's consistently been second on the team in routes run. So I can't put him ahead of Luther Burden quite yet because Burden is still very clear. The wide receiver three here, but D.J. moore. Yeah. I mean, same as all the other guys in these tiers.

[Alfredo]

Right.

[Dave]

Like, we don't feel great about any of them, but if you're in a position where, you know, you, you didn't invest heavily in wide receiver in the draft and you're looking for a wide receiver three in your deep lineups or a flex play. I think DJ Moore, we know the upside is there any week in this offense and it's a tough matchup, but his, the catch abilities always. Given that, you know, upside on a.

[Alfredo]

Weekly basis, I'm going to say this. I know you mentioned that Adore Jackson is playing better, but he has also been a guy that has notoriously given up a lot of big plays. Now with Luther Burden playing more on the outside, he can get faced up against the Dory Jackson in this. I'm going to call it now. I think Luther Burden gets himself a big touchdown on a Dory Jackson this week and he becomes the flex play that might win people a lot of weeks. Weeks this week.

[Dave]

It's possible. Yeah.

[Alfredo]

Anything's possible, Dave. There's a world. There's a world. We're bringing that back. Are we gonna, we're gonna start doing that again?

[Dave]

There's a world. Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah. There's a lot of a 2024 prospect talk. There's a world.

[Alfredo]

It's just a lot of hedging, hedging our bets and stuff. There's a world where this happens, but there's also a world where it doesn't. All right, other guys in this, in this, these groupings here. Xavier Worthy. I think I've lost all confidence, Dave. Like, not that we had much to begin with, but he's not even a wide receiver. Three for us in our rankings. And I don't want to start him ever.

[Dave]

Remember this off season when I was saying that Xavier Worthy was fancy Wandale Robinson. Fancy a Xavier Worthy.

[Alfredo]

Yep.

[Dave]

Yeah, dude. It's bad. And I will say, like, he probably has a torn labor him. He's probably playing through an injury that he shouldn't be playing through right now. He's dealing with an ankle injury as well. But this is the third time I've said it on the show. I, I need a new, better saying. But at a certain point, you are what your fantasy production says you are. And this guy has like never been more than a wide receiver. Three in fantasy. I've talked about it so much. He has one game with 100 plus receiving yards in his entire career and that came in the super bowl when he got a 60 whatever yard touchdown down three scores when they were playing in fantasy. I mean, I get it. He's fast. He's on the Chiefs playing with Patrick Mahomes.

[Alfredo]

Like, so he must be Tyreek Hill.

[Dave]

And that's it. Like, we're holding on to this hope that he's Tyreek Hill, but he's probably a lot more Kadarius Tony than he is Tyree Kill. Unfortunately, that's the thing, man.

[Alfredo]

Like, Worthy has never been a guy that wins contested catches. And I'm sorry, like, this goes back to his time in Texas. He was never actually a really good deep ball tracker. Like, that's not what he was good at. He was good at winning on quick slants. He was good at winning on. On screenplays that were blocked magnificently in the Texas offense. Like, there was a lot of what the, what Texas was doing is a lot of what the Dolphins have been doing and getting guys into space and on crossers. And that just hasn't been happening with the Chiefs. Like, they have been.

[Dave]

Well, it has been, but they have Rashi Rice doing that.

[Alfredo]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dave]

Way better than Xavier Worthy ever can exact.

[Alfredo]

And that's the only thing is, like, we talked about this in the offseason season, Xavier Worthy was solid in the Rasheed Rice role. But you know who's even better at the Rashee Rice roll? Rashi Rice. Like, and that's what it is. Like, that's just what we're going to keep seeing each week. This is a good matchup, so there is possibility for an explosive play. And I think that's always there with Xavier Worthy, which is why people will hold on to him and start him as a wide receiver 3 or as a flex play that it's there. I just got to say, like, I think we're at the point where the consistent downside of Xavier Worthy outweighs the potential pop off that could be there. There. Like there are other guys on this list that I'm like, I don't know, man. I ranked him lower. But I'd kind of rather start Luther Burden over Xavier Worthy at this point. Like, that's just where my, my confidence level is.

[Dave]

Yeah. And you do talk about the matchup and I think that, that, you know, this is a show where we talk about weekly rankings. So we, we have to talk about the matchup here. And it is a good matchup against the Cowboys. And I, I feel like, you know, if you're not starting save, you're worthy this week. Week, just cut him. Because, like, if you're not going to start him this week, when are you ever going to start him? Like, this is the matchup to start him if you've got him. I know he's been, you know, benched and started and on IR and dealing with like. There's been so many things you've had to deal with throughout with Xavier Worthy this season, but, like, this week against the Cowboys, this is as good as it gets. They give up more big plays than any other defense out there. He's got the speed to get behind them. You know, it's a. It's an island game where, you know, we. We see the. These. These fun plays typically get rolled out. So if you're. If you're going to start him, do it this week, and if not, sabotage, drop him and let somebody else deal with the headache.

[Alfredo]

You and I, last player here. You and I both have Andre Yosevash as a guy that is just outside of our top 40, but I think he should have some sort of consideration this week with T. Higgins out, if Joe. With Joe Burrow looking like he is back in a game against the Ravens where their secondary hasn't been great, great consistently on a weekly basis. So I know we have them ranked a little bit lower, but I think there's some. Is it weird to say that I think there's a better floor and some better upside here with Andre Yosavash than there is for. I mean, at least I think there's a better floor for Yosavash than there is for Piersol at this point. Because Pierce, all we're seeing a zero floor on. On. On these weeks, which I hate to say, but that's just. Yeah, it's the weirdness of him returning from injury because of the offense and because of the role with no Higgins. I think there's probably a higher ceiling than there is with Chimera dk, who's right next to him like this. I kind of like Yosef this week.

[Dave]

I mean, comparing Xavier Worthy and Andre Yosovos. Corporate wants you to tell the difference between these two pictures.

[Alfredo]

Same picture.

[Dave]

The same picture. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, the. The wide receiver, too, on a good offense who can potentially pop for a big play. And if not, you're. You're staring at two catches for 13 yards in your lineup saying, why did I do this to myself? It's really what it is. Like, you're hoping they could score a big play. And I'd argue that, you know, Xavier Worthy has the better matchup this week, so I'd lean towards him. We also see, like, Mitchell Tinsley was involved an annoying amount last week.

[Alfredo]

He was Annoyingly good last week.

[Dave]

He's had a few touchdowns this year. Like he's somebody that shout out Dan Hendry, who is a Bengals fan and pays very close attention to the Bengals beat. And he was telling me last week, he's like, you know, everybody's over their skis about Andre Yosova. He's like, mitchell Tinsley is the guy that I think people should be talking about. And I moved him way up my rankings, kind of put him as a last minute flex play that you can rely on and he caught a touchdown. So we might see Tinsley be the guy again. If there wasn't a Tinsley in the picture right now, we'd kind of have to force the usage to Yosovash. But based on what we've seen from Tinsley this year, I do worry a little bit about getting Yosovash in my lineups. Well, I think it's going to be Mike Sink. Sicky is the beneficiary who came back last week and immediately led the team in targets. And we saw this last year when T. Higgins was out. I can't remember off the top I had, it was like a four or six game stretch that T. Higgins missed last year. Micah Sicki was a top three tight end over that stretch. Like we see him kind of in this weird split with no offense so far this year. But when T. Higgins isn't out there, we're gonna see Micasiki running routes on almost every single play. He's going to be pulling targets. I think if you're really looking for the streamer this week, it's not, not Yosavash, it's not Tinsley. I think it's Mike Kasiki and I.

[Alfredo]

Think I like that better too because just thinking of like we, we've been talking about this, quarterbacks going to what makes them comfortable. And you get Joe Burrow back in there and he's looking at, okay, I got Jamar, but I also got Kasiki who I've been comfortable with. Yosef Ash has kind of been a guy for him. Tinsley, I don't know. Like we, we can say what we want, but I don't know there's been any in game reps with them or how many practice reps they've even had together. Like Tinsley. Of course there's been rubbish run with Flacco and with other guys out on the field. But yeah, I think, I like that. I like, I like the Gasicki call out there. Well, we, we, we over delivered again after under promising we said short show and here we are at nearly an hour. But what we want to do, man, is just thank everybody. Thank. We are so thankful for all of you that watch and listen. This is, it's such a good week of reflection and we are so thankful to do what we love. Dave, I'm thankful for you, man. I'm thankful for football guys and for every person that enjoys this show show and allows us to have these jobs where we get to do this for a living and have fun and talk football and hopefully help some people win their fantasy leagues.

[Dave]

Absolutely. Yeah. Everybody make sure to spend that time. You know, if you miss a football game this week, it's not the end of the world. You can go back and you can watch the recaps, you can catch up on the news later or something like that. I think that's something that I've really been trying to do over the last couple of weeks here. As we get closer to the holidays is is cherish that time with friends and family and whatnot. You know, I don't know about you guys. I have Hulu live tv. I can record games and watch them after the fact. NFL plus you the condensed games afterwards as well. Like, you know, spend time with family. That that's what means a lot this time of year.

[Alfredo]

Well, we're glad that you guys have spent some time with us today on this episode. As always, I want to thank you for watching or listening all the way through for myself, for Dave. We'll see you next time. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Adios.

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