Why Heath Cummings Takes Big Risks in Fantasy Football (and You Should Too!) | The Pretend GM Podcast

Summary

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Why Heath Cummings Takes Big Risks in Fantasy Football (and You Should Too!)

Podcast: Footballguys Fantasy Football Show
Episode Title: Why Heath Cummings Takes Big Risks in Fantasy Football (and You Should Too!)
Guests: Alfredo Brown (host), Heath Cummings (CBS/Fantasy Football Today)
Date: July 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This in-depth episode features host Alfredo Brown in a candid, lively conversation with Heath Cummings, a leading CBS fantasy football analyst and co-host of FFT Dynasty. Dispensing with typical “sleepers and busts” talk, the discussion dives into risk-taking, process, and evolving philosophies in fantasy football—from how to leverage volatility and projections to industry-wide lessons, deeper context, and how fantasy football can impact positive change. The conversation covers Heath’s personal journey, professional ethos, and interactions with other top analysts, while also fielding unique listener questions on team stacks, “must-have” players, and more.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Philosophy of Risk in Fantasy Football

• Don’t Fear Volatility

  • Heath advocates for actively embracing risk and volatility, particularly in home leagues where going “safe and steady” is rarely the best path to a championship.
  • Quote:
    • “Your risk tolerance should be higher… I don’t care about how consistent a player is.” (40:43, 41:18, Heath)

• Emphasize Fun Over Fear

  • Fantasy football is ultimately a game—and if the fun disappears by overthinking or “always playing it safe”, you’re missing the point.
  • Quote:
    • “You’re playing a game. It should be fun.” (23:32, Heath)
    • “If you’re a fantasy football writer, you’re writing about a game, it should be fun. If it’s not fun, then what’s wrong?” (23:33, Heath)

2. Evolving Approach & Lessons from Experience

• Heath’s Journey

  • Heath describes taking a non-linear path: small-town Missouri roots, a journalism school “almost-semester,” insurance sales, blogging, and finally, almost by persistence and luck, landing at CBS.
  • Quote:
    • “It was always more of a driving towards than a thinking I should...I want to do this and not what I’m doing, so can I make that happen? And it happened.” (11:57, Heath)

• Show-Me Skepticism

  • Missouri’s “Show Me” state motto translates to his analytical process: be skeptical—don’t accept any result or spike year on face value. Always look for context and a reasonable explanation.
  • Quote:
    • “Was that real? Show me.” (14:31, Heath)
  • Outlier years get less weight unless they repeat; longer track-records influence his process.

• Process > Individual Lessons

  • After a season, don’t overhaul a good process for outlier results.
  • Quote:
    • “Don’t change your whole process because of that and now be wrong about seven guys and right about three.” (21:32, Heath)

3. Data, Projections, and Context

• Projecting from the Big Picture

  • Heath approaches projections from the team level—examining OC history, offensive potential, and then slices up the pie for individual player projections. Regression to the mean is key.
  • Quote:
    • “I start on the team level... then moving to the players, what percentage of pie does this player deserve?... Once you have that... then you can say, okay, I think this will be different.” (30:19, Heath)

• Volume Is King, Context Is Everything

  • Historical fantasy points and FP/G are more predictive than many advanced stats, but explaining why and projecting who will deviate from the trend is where edge comes from.
  • “The stats that best explain impact...are not always the ones most predictive.” (27:25, Heath)
  • Rookies and backup/contingent upside backs merit different approaches.

• Projections vs. Rankings: The Upside/Range Game

  • Often projections don’t capture the full risk/reward profile of some players—upside can matter more than projected median.
  • Quote:
    • “Certain players...don’t currently have a role...if you think they are good, you should rank them much higher than their projection.” (33:14, Heath)
  • “My rankings become less dependent on projections the deeper you get...double-digit rounds, I don’t care about them at all.” (43:07, Heath)

4. Managing Biases and League Dynamics

• Don’t Draft for Safety in the Middle and Late Rounds

  • Benches and later picks are for home-run swings, not “consistent” mediocrity.
  • “Don’t waste your bench...they won’t lose you a week, but they will win you your week.” (42:28, via Jake Seeley, echoed by Heath)

• Analyst Groupthink Is Bad for Listeners

  • Healthy disagreement between analysts sharpens everyone, avoids “mind-meld”, and ensures listeners get multiple perspectives.
  • It’s “a bigger concern than not being impacted by each other” if all the show’s rankings look the same. (20:43, Heath)

• Learning from Others

  • Interactions in analyst groups (like with FFT podmates or Sigmund Bloom) deepen perspectives, even if philosophies differ.

5. Technology & The AI Question

• Skepticism About AI in Fantasy Decisions
  • Heath downplays the need for AI tools, likening it to “simulating 2K instead of playing.” The game is about the decisions you make—don’t hand over the fun.
  • Quote:
    • “I wouldn’t...ever make me feel comfortable saying please do this for me. I’m just going to go to bed.” (47:07, Heath)
    • “We’re playing a game, aren’t we?” (47:51, Heath)

6. Fantasy Football’s Best Legacy: Giving Back

• Fantasy Community and Charity
  • Heath is proudest of the industry’s charitable impact (Fantasy Cares, St. Jude, Scott Fish Bowl).
  • Quote:
    • “I hope there’s some impact that we make through this game...this game becomes known as, man, they really used that game to do a lot of good for other people.” (51:20, Heath)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 07:48 | Heath | “As far as the ‘I’m actually good at this’, I’ll let you know if that happens. I have not come to that realization yet. I’m looking forward to it.” | | 14:31 | Heath | “Missouri, for anybody who doesn’t know, is the Show Me state. And I think that probably factors into the way I look at statistics…” | | 23:32 | Heath | “You’re playing a game. It should be fun.” | | 27:25 | Heath | “A lot of times the stats that are really the best at explaining the impact that the player had...are not the stats that are actually predictive of what’s going to happen next year.” | | 29:00 | Heath | “Being good at fantasy just translates to being good at fantasy again.” | | 41:18 | Heath | “I don’t care about how consistent a player is. That’s not something that ever factors in.” | | 47:07 | Heath | “I’ve not seen anything from this technology that would ever make me comfortable saying, ‘Please do this for me. I’m just going to go to bed.’” | | 51:20 | Heath | “I hope that legacy continues to grow...this game becomes known as, man, they really used that game to do a lot of good for other people.” |

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Listener Q&A & Mailbag Highlights

• On dynasty stacking an offense (53:36):

  • Heath is not afraid to stack multiple players from one team, as long as you understand the correlation and risk profile. Target players you like—don’t be paralyzed by diversification.

• On having "must-have" players and reaching (54:40):

  • Heath tries not to lock himself in, but admits it's worse to “be too cute” and miss out on a guy you believe in than to reach a bit early. Typically, he’s willing to go about a round ahead of consensus for “his guys.”

• Favorite outlier 2025 targets mentioned (57:11):

  • DeAndre Swift and Jerry Jeudy (as of early July), with full awareness that these hot takes might age unpredictably!

• On best-ball and league formats (60:24):

  • Heath hates eight-team leagues; larger, deeper rosters, and best-ball are much preferred, mainly to reduce agonizing sit/start choices among too many good WR2s.

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Important Timestamps

• Biggest industry misconception (“risk tolerance should be higher”): 00:37, 40:43
• Heath’s journey into fantasy professionally: 07:48 – 12:42
• Missouri “Show Me” skepticism and stat analysis: 13:48 – 16:46
• Process overreacting to bad results: 21:32
• Projections process explained: 29:56 – 32:34
• Consistency vs. volatility/bench philosophy: 41:18, 43:07
• Audience questions, player stacking/reaching: 53:36, 54:40
• Desired fantasy football legacy/Giving back: 51:20

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Tone and Chemistry

The tone throughout the episode is relaxed, insightful, and sometimes delightfully self-deprecating—two analysts having fun riffing about the quirks of the fantasy football world while communicating actionable strategy and honest lessons. Heath's pragmatic yet playful approach, coupled with Alfredo's friendly probing, makes the conversation accessible for casual players and die-hards alike.

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Recap: Takeaways for Listeners

• Don’t play fantasy football timid—embrace volatility, especially in the later rounds and on your bench.
• Trust foundational stats, but always demand context and beware of outliers.
• Process matters: over-hauling your methods because of outlier misses is a mistake.
• Disagreement among analysts is good for you—the audience!
• Volume and projections are important, but upside wins leagues—especially after Round 10+.
• Enjoy the game and engage with the community—fantasy football’s greatest legacy is the good it inspires off the field.
• Technology is a tool, not a replacement. Don’t hand over the fun or your decisions to AI.

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Connect with Heath Cummings:

• FFT Dynasty Podcast, CBS Sports
• Participate in community charity: Fantasy Cares / St. Jude

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Transcript

[A]

Back to school is better. With family freedom from T Mobile, we'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 8 $2009.99 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile. What is something that you see that either industry or even just fantasy managers just playing the game at home maybe misunderstand or rely on too much?

[B]

I think that your risk tolerance should be higher. I don't care about how consistent a player is.

[A]

On this episode of the Pretengium, I talked with Heath Cummings of CBS and the co host of the Fantasy Football Today podcast. He discusses the biggest mistakes he sees fantasy football managers making. Why you need to embrace volatility over consistency and when to get out of your comfort zone and start taking some risks, just like you and I. Heath Cummings is a pretend gm.

[B]

Well, howdy, my friend.

[A]

I caught you there getting your headphones and everything on.

[B]

That's all right.

[A]

A little. Little behind the scenes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Don't worry. This part. This part doesn't go on video. This is just for fun audio people.

[B]

Audio people.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know why I said that. It's. It's fun for the audio people. There we go. Okay, that's better. I mean, I don't know. They might be fun people as well.

[B]

I've known some fun audio people.

[A]

What exactly would be a fun audio person?

[B]

Person who is in charge of taking care of the audio who is also fun to be around.

[A]

You know what? You just made a real. Like a real fact, a real thing right there out of a really stupid riff that we were doing. So thank you.

[B]

I. I like to think that one of my superpowers is taking really stupid things and making them seem like real facts.

[A]

That's what this whole. That's what this whole episode should have been about is just asking you about all of the fun skills you don't. That you do have that have nothing to do with your job.

[B]

Some might say that that has a lot to do with my job.

[A]

You know what? That is fair. That is fair.

[B]

I'm not gonna see if I can break your brain before we even actually get started.

[A]

It's. No, you already did it. Great.

[B]

You already did it.

[A]

I'm there. I'm there. Brain is broken. How you doing, man?

[B]

You know, I. I'm pretty good. Getting ramped up for Scott Fishbowl live this weekend in Kansas City, so.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Ready to go? Yeah. You do. Are you doing alive or are you doing it online?

[A]

I am. I'm doing a live. I'm doing Orlando this year. Since I moved. I'm not like, I'm not that far away. It's like a 90 minute drive or, like hour drive, but I just. I just didn't want to have to be responsible for something that was that far. So I was like, you know what? I'll. I'll go be a visitor.

[B]

We're responsible for plenty.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, no, thanks.

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

But yeah, man, this is the calm before the storm where, like, everything really starts to pick up. I know. You're doing, like, two podcasts, though. You're doing FFT and Dynasty.

[B]

Yeah, the. The whole Dynasty thing is like, my passion, and I love it. But I also realized, like, it was not super smart in terms of my workflow in the off season.

[A]

Yeah, well, because you're. It's not just that. You're also. You. You still coach basketball, right?

[B]

Thankfully, this time of year, I do not.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's fair. Okay. I wasn't sure if it was like one of the travel leagues or something like that.

[B]

Yeah, we usually stop in June. We're not. We're not quite high enough level to go play at the Peach Jam or anything like that.

[A]

Do you. So what is. What is like, the most relaxing time of year for you that you're not doing multiple podcasts? You're not, you know, doing three different other things?

[B]

I would say it's probably the playoffs.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The NFL playoffs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

That January, I, like, I was looking back and I was talking to. To my co host, Dave Kluge, and saying, like, man, I'm taking right now. I'm on my week off. This is my week off. And I decided to fill it with a bunch of these.

[B]

You know, that makes sense.

[A]

Recordings.

[B]

That's. That's how we do when we're off. We work.

[A]

We have no. We don't know what else to do. Right. And I look back and I go, man, January was just such a wasteland of podcasts that we did. That needs to be the time that we take off.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And just enjoy. Enjoy the playoffs, enjoy the upcoming Super Bowl. All that stuff. Yeah, like, that needs to be it.

[B]

My. I got this new earpiece and can't even see it. No, thank you. Can't right now. It's going to pop out as soon as I smile, and then you'll be able to see it again. Because I was like, no, I don't need one of those molded ones. This one I have now fits perfectly, and they sent me a different one, and it just pops out of my ear every time I smile, so I'm just not going to smile at you.

[A]

What is it? Is this. Well, that's fine. It's. Most people don't smile at me anyways. That's cool. What happened? Like, CVS was just like, yeah, we need to see less headphone and more heat.

[B]

No, no, no. I just. My headphone was not working, and I asked for a new one, and I thought I would get the same one, and I, you know, you don't assume. So I think I have to get a molded one now, so I'll have to stick some putty in my ear and mold it to my ear.

[A]

Wait, is that really how that makes sense? I've never really thought about how they do that. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my. So what do you do? Like, you send that into some sort of.

[B]

I don't know. I've never done it before, but I'm going to find out.

[A]

Oh, well, fill me in afterwards because I'm always. You'll see me throughout this podcast, like, adjusting my headphones, shoving them back in there. But, yeah. Oh, I'm also. I was letting my last guest know I'm like a. A chronic cougher throughout the. The. The. The podcast. Yeah, it's great. It's great. That's why I love the mute button. I have my water with me, so pardon me for a sec, but.

[B]

Smooth.

[A]

Yeah, man, this is. Yeah, very smooth. Very smooth. This is fun to have you on here today because I. I want to do something different. I want to do something that's, like, not, hey, Heath, give me your sleepers, or who should we be trading for? You know, we. We do so much of that in our own shows. I kind of want to do something where it's like, how do you just look at this game? You know, how. How do you. What. What. What goes on behind the scenes for you? And everyone sort of has a story, and I'm just. I'm really happy that you're joining me today.

[B]

Well, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be a part of anything. You're a Part of, really have enjoyed every time I've talked to you. I will say that when we do like 75 million fantasy football podcasts, you can kind of go guest on someone's podcast and you don't. Sometimes you need a little prep work. But generally speaking, like, I could answer almost any question about any fantasy football player without thinking about it too much. And you sent me the rundown and I was like, oh, Alfredo wants me to think today.

[A]

My bad. I. This should not have been. I was told there would be no thinking.

[B]

I'm prepared to think.

[A]

Okay, good, good. Like that. That was the idea here is to try to, so to speak, teach a man to fish. And let's, let's do kind of the thought process as opposed to just here's the destination, here's the answer. Let's, let's go into the journey. Let's go. Like how you do that. And I think it's one, selfishly it's going to make me a better analyst. And two, I think it's just gonna make people that watch or listen to this better, better at playing this game or just at least have a better understanding of it. So I know we all have like different ways that we start in this, even just playing the game. You've been at CBS for so many years, right? Like, what was that moment where you not only said, wow, I really enjoy playing this game, but I'm actually good at it and I can do this for a job and like be a professional.

[B]

So the enjoy part I think was right away, I think my first fantasy football league was the old school USA Today out of the paper. They had dollar values next to all the players names. And you actually, if I remember correctly, called in to tell which players you were going to play. And that was fun. Which is weird thinking about it now. But as far as the. I'm actually good at this. I'll let you know if that happens. I have not come to that realization yet. I'm looking forward to it.

[A]

Great. Well, I mean, like, you're, I think we, we can use this term correctly here. You're a professional. You do get paid to do this. And, and you, you research, you do analysis. Was there sort of that aha moment? Like I've, listen, I did all my Heath Cummings research over the last week and I've listened to all of your interviews and I know you did stuff on radio and you, you wrote and did all these different things. Like, what was the moment where you're like, I should really pursue this because I can do this professionally, you know.

[B]

So like just for anybody who doesn't know I was. I wanted to be a writer or be somebody who talked about sports for as long as I can remember. Like, when I was a kid, I would get in trouble because I was. Woke my parents up talking to myself or to my baseball cards about stats. I was creating and doing calculations without paper, just like trying to calculate who was better than who and things like that. When I was like, your parents were.

[A]

Either terrified or they were like, we've got a little savant on our hands.

[B]

Right. And it was more annoyed. I think it was option C. Got it right. Yeah. So I always wanted to do this, but I took what I would call the circuitous path. I didn't go straight to where I was supposed to. I started to. I went to Mizzou because it was one of the best journalism schools in the country. And I lasted a, almost a full semester before they really didn't want me to come back. And so I. And then before you knew it, I was married and had kids and had to work and support them. And so it was always more of a driving towards than a thinking I should. A lot of times, even when I was writing for like, I was so fortunate that I saw a tweet from Sigmund Bloom. They were looking for game recappers. And I had no reason at that point, like I'd done some blogging for free, had no reason at that point to think that I should. But I was like, I'll send him a sample, see what he thinks. And he's like, yeah, why don't you do that for us this year? Oh, great. And then the next year I was like, you know, I'd like to do this more. Do you think I could be like a staff writer?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I then I like, even then, at times it almost felt more like a thing I wanted to do than a thing I should do. I had a full time job, which was usually more than 40 hours a week. And by that point I had two kids and a lot of other things going on. And I'm finding time to spend a couple hours at night writing for football guys for what at the time was not a life changing amount of money. And so the should part of it was always kind of in question.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, is this the best use of my time? Yeah, because I have all these other responsibilities. And I think probably lots of people around me were wondering the same question. And then I was an insurance agent selling home life auto insurance and writing for football guys. And Doing the radio show, which was the whole thing a little bit of a scheme itself because I had a certain amount of money that I had to spend on advertising. And so I used that money to buy time on a radio station, did a fantasy football show, and ran insurance.

[A]

Ads in the breaks, tax write off right there. That's just good business.

[B]

But again, should I have done that? I think there are people who question that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And one thing I. It was almost more of like a dream type of thing of, wouldn't it be better if I could just do this all the time? So if I saw an opening or maybe spent an hour at work, because I didn't really want to be working at the time, searching for openings, I just apply for it with no degree or anything like that. Just I'd written for football guys for a few years. I created this radio show and CBS responded, wow, that's awesome. So I don't think there was a point where I was like, oh, yeah, this is what I'm supposed to do. It was more like, I want to do this and not what I'm doing, and so can I make that happen? And it happened.

[A]

That's. That's cool when you hear that because, like, I've heard all the different stories of people saying, oh, I reached out to so and so, and their response was not great, or I reached out to this person and it really altered my career path. So I mean, to hear you reach out to Sig and Sig, like, yeah, why not? And then you. You apply to this job and you're not sure if it's even something you should be doing, and all of a sudden, like, look at you now. How many years has it been at CBS?

[B]

Just in March, it was 10.

[A]

Wow. Congrats. That is.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

That's awesome. Not. Not many people even last that regular jobs for 10 years, let alone something in media. So, I mean, it's just, it speaks to how, how hard you work, how good you are at this. So, you know, it's.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Pat yourself on the back.

[B]

Yeah, they haven't. They haven't quit paying me yet.

[A]

So they haven't wised up yet. So you talk about, like, coming from. You came from, like an insurance background, and you talk about, you know, numbers when you're a kid, what's something from your background? Maybe people don't know. Maybe it's one of the things you've already said. Right. But something that has shaped how you approach fantasy football.

[B]

So I think, like, maybe part of that background and it's so much different from where I live now. But when I. I was born in a town of, I think about 900 people and lived there until sixth grade, and then we moved to the city, which was a town that had about 8,000 people, and lived there until I moved to South Florida, which is just a completely different world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that's, I think, a good way to say it is a simpler life there. And the. The state motto of Missouri, for anybody who doesn't know, is the Show Me state. They're a little skeptical. Show me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. I think that probably factors into my. The way I look at statistics when I'm first presented with them. Like, was that real? Show Me.

[A]

Wow. That you. You took me on a journey. I was like, where is he going with this? That was a beautiful tie in. Yeah. Okay. So, like, that's something I've talked about with a lot of people so far, is whether you're into, like, the data or anything. You always kind of. You want context to this stuff. Right? So is that something that you feel like you're constantly searching for? Is there ever a time you just. You take a. A number of data, even just an opinion at face value, or is this something where you're like, I got to dig deeper. I need to know why this ticks, why this happens the way it does.

[B]

I think that I. That's the other thing, that if I. If I miss things, it's because, like, once a guy has done it for three years and have been a person for three years, I pretty much accept that. And if we get an outlier year, I'm much more skeptical of that, because we already know what that person is or we already know what that rate is for that person. A good example would be Terry McLaurin last year, like, Terry McLaurin had a breakout season in his first year with Jaden Daniels. But if you go to look at Terry McLaurin stats, everything's the same, except for touchdowns. And that's the least predictive thing about fantasy football production. So I. I think we already know who Terry McLaurin is, and he was the same guy last year. He just scored more touchdowns.

[A]

Yeah, well, the whole offense was. Was different. And I love what you're saying here because it has now. First of all, it's the first time that we have had two people on the podcast who, by the way, are already really close, you and Sig, but have such differing opinions on, because yours is like, well, that's the outlier. Sig came on here and said, sometimes that outlier, we don't know. We don't know if maybe that's the new mean and there's a whole nother ceiling we haven't reached yet. And he has a, a sort of just perpetually optimistic view of fantasy football. And I'm not saying that you, you're the other way, you know, on the other side of the spectrum, but I think that's like a really nuanced context that people need to have when looking at outliers and what it actually means.

[B]

My, my. One of my favorite conversations period was after the. My first football guys retreat. Sig and I went to the airport together to fly out and we had like two and a half hours to sit there and wait. And so we just talked about the world. And I found with. In almost every conversation you were able.

[A]

To do it in two and a half hours. That's like, that's like an eight hour sig conversation.

[B]

It's continued on for, for 20 years, I guess. There we go. Fifteen probably. But I, that it continues every time I talk to him. I was on the couch like a month ago and he's going to be on FFT Dynasty August 2nd. And every time there's that it's really gentle. I don't know that we've ever had an argument, but we do see things so differently and I love that it makes the conversations with him really stimulating.

[A]

Yeah, we need that. We need that in, not just in this industry, but I was sitting with my friends the other day and you know, just talking about the Dolphins and talking about fantasy football and everyone has a strong opinion on things. Sometimes it's backed by absolute nothing but trust me, bro, or my gut or whatever it is. But those conversations end up being fun. They allow you to think differently. Look for that new perspective. You have a really great group of, of co workers over at CBS Fantasy Football today, if I'm not mistaken. The one of the. Or not if not the longest running fantasy football podcast right now. It has like all of its original people intact.

[B]

The other one, Well, I think like I just said that I started 10 years ago and they. I'm still the new guy on the show. Yeah, like they were all there doing it for years before I was. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's. And that, that's crazy to think of. I was gonna say. You know what, I'll say it anyways if you guys like really want to feel old. Like I was getting out of college and that's when I was listening to the, to the FFT podcast.

[B]

What Was that five years ago?

[A]

Okay, that's. You're. You're sweet. That's adorable. Thank you. No, 35. Yeah. Not. Not the same way, but yeah. Yeah, man, that's. It's such a great show. It's been. It's. You guys have kept the quality so high for so long. I think a lot of that has to do. And I'm not just, like, steaming you guys up. A lot of that has to do with. You guys do challenge each other in a very respectful way. I do it all the time with Mike, sometimes.

[B]

Sometimes disrespectfully.

[A]

But yes, yes, it has to happen. Uh, but like, that, I think, is. You sharpen like iron sharpens iron. You get to sharpen each other's opinions. It keeps you on your toes. I think it makes you better analysts at this game. Can you think of maybe a time in which you and someone else disagreed where they. They really made you rethink how you're looking at the. Whatever that topic was?

[B]

So I think that happens all the time. Like, part of the. The benefit as a player of doing a show with those guys three, four some weeks, five times a week, is that I get to hear some of the best in the business justify their reason for having different opinions than me. And really the bigger problem, the thing that you don't want to happen is that we get to August and you go to the CBS rankings page, and Heath and Jamie and Dave's rankings all look the same. Like, I think that's probably a bigger concern than not being impacted by each other. So it's. It's kind of a. Not a joke, but a running truth on the show. But it's a joke also that my rankings are more of the outlier. Generally speaking, I look at things a little bit different and be a little more stubborn about changing my opinions. And part of that is not that they're not making good points. They do. They make me nervous about guys sometimes. They make me think, okay, I'm too low on that guy, pretty regular. But I'm also a little bit stubborn because I think we need to maintain a little bit of a difference between what those rankings show and. And what opinions we hold.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I've noticed that. I mean, obviously looking at your guys rankings and seeing how they differ, but I've seen the inverse where, you know, it's. Once you see people start recording with each other for so long, working with each other for so long, you almost get this mind meld where they're looking at players the same way, and I remember, like, I've seen comments on your show. I've seen comments on our show. It's like, can you guys just stop fighting and just give us the information? And it's like, no, because this is part of it. Like, we need to have the differing opinions. Like, that's what this is, man. So I love that you guys.

[B]

That.

[A]

I love that you. You hold your ground. How do you. How do you find yourself being more flexible with it, though? Like, if you're wrong about something, how. Not necessarily how you walk it back, but how do you learn from that moment?

[B]

I. I struggle a lot because. A lot either. Usually in January, he does a good job of coming up with topics, and a lot of times in January, it's, what did you learn from this year? And how are you going to apply it from last year? And I. I struggle with that because I think too often we can learn lessons that are individual lessons and apply them to the larger situation. And it turns out, you know what, your process on 10 players is going to be right seven times. These are the three guys you were wrong on. Don't change your whole process because of that and now be wrong about seven guys and right about three. As far as the actual walking it back, I don't really have a big problem with that. Like, I think it's really good for me if Adam and Dave and Jamie are viewed in a positive light. It's a good thing for the show. If I say that's a really good point. I'm probably going to move them up a little bit.

[A]

It.

[B]

That's. That's a positive. So that's. That's usually how I handle it. If it's. If I've really dug myself in, then I may just not say anything and change my rankings and people will figure it out. Too mad at them at that moment to admit.

[A]

She'S like, we haven't heard from Heath for the last 20 minutes. Next thing you see that running back has moved up, like, six spots in the rankings. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I don't want to talk about it.

[A]

So, like, like I've mentioned here, you. You come from an interesting background where you've done so many different things and now you're working at, I'd say, one of the. One of the, if not the biggest name in fantasy football with some great people around you through that time. Have you maybe come across, I hate to call it this, but I don't have a better name for it yet in the show. Is your golden rule of fantasy football something just proven to Be true. And if there's like, like, if this was the quote that I'm putting on the thumbnail for this show. What. What is that golden rule of fantasy football for you?

[B]

You're playing a game. It should be fun.

[A]

Oh, I love it.

[B]

And if you're a fantasy football podcaster, you're talking about a game. It should be fun. And if you're a fantasy football writer, you're writing about a game, it should be fun. And if it's not fun, then what's wrong.

[A]

If it's not. It's a game about a game. Like, right, If. If it's not fun for you, you might be doing it wrong.

[B]

Exactly. And I know there's some very serious people that have career interests and are more concerned about making money, and I'm not trying to diminish that in any way, but it's a game. I, I think even for the guys that are playing the game, they're playing for millions of dollars, and that's their career. I think the guys who probably have the most success, it's pretty fun.

[A]

I mean, I think that's the. That's the. The base of it, right? The base level of all of it, whether it's playing in the NFL, which I would absolutely have no idea what that's like, or doing what we do, which, you know, like, I think about it, it's, how bothered or annoyed could we really be when we get to show up and sort of live out.

[B]

A dream every day, right?

[A]

You know, and come in and doing something that is so much fun. There's. I mentioned talking to my friends the other day. There's a purity to it. Like when I went back to just doing that, I remember drafting players and just think, you know what? I'm going to pick this guy because I really like that player, and he's good. I didn't care what a spreadsheet said or anything like that. And that. I have a question about that later that I want to ask you about. Like Heath from years ago versus Heath now. So that's a. That's a little tease for that. But we are in an industry where audiences, they want answers. They want, give me your sleepers. Who do I start this week? Who's your top waiver wire pickup? Oftentimes, though, that leads to, not necessarily always having context. And if you're wrong about something, they're coming back to you with that. How do you try to give an audience what they want, right? Which is like, the answer that they're looking for versus what they need, which is the explanation, the understanding, the context. How do you try to mesh those two things?

[B]

You know, I think more I try to do those things separate. I try to just provide the things that people want and just give it to him.

[A]

And then.

[B]

And through other avenues, I tried to, you know, heath, why are you high on this guy? Well, now I get a chance to explain my process, whether it's projections, whether it's film, whatever it is. But I. I think that maybe sometimes we get so caught up in the fact whether, like, people who are really good writers would like to show that they're really good writers and write 2,000 words about this thing, when they know that 75% of their audience doesn't want to read 2,000 words, it becomes that.

[A]

Meme where it's like, I'm really happy for you, or, sorry for you. I ain't reading all that. Like.

[B]

Well, and it's not just with words. Like, the people who really, really love data can occasionally, and I love data, can occasionally get lost in a lot of really big words about why certain things are important and lose the fact that they really want to just know who you want and who you like and when they should take them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm. I'm probably lean more towards just give the audience what they want.

[A]

You know, that's something that I've. I've tried to do both of as much as I can, and it's. I think it has to be that way. You mentioned. Right? Like, give them the answer if they want the extra layer. For the most part, people are going to ask, like, that's. That. That's what it is. You know, you mentioned there data and like, how people have not even just data, but, like, concepts in fantasy football. And sometimes we use big words or we want to sound smart or we want to, you know, come up with the new stat. Right. What is something, either a concept or data point that you see that either people in the industry or even just fantasy managers just playing the game at home maybe misunderstand or rely on too much.

[B]

I think we are in the golden era of fantasy football data. And my. What? Like, you mentioned Dave and Jamie and Adam, but Jacob Gibbs has been indispensable the last few years. And if you're on Twitter or X or whatever and you haven't seen Jacob's threads, well, you're missing out. But also, I wouldn't set notifications because it's gonna. It's gonna keep you up at night because there's a lot of them. But he gives you all of the information. But what it seems to me like we're finding is that a lot of times the stats that are really the best at explaining the impact that the player had and stripping out the context, stripping out the team, stripping out all. Here's just what this guy did are often not the stats that are actually predictive of what's going to happen next year. And I, I don't know that we balance those things well enough. Ryan Heath's done a really good job. He'll put out something every summer. He's probably done it this year. Of these were the numbers from the year before or from the last 10 years that are most predictive of next year's fantasy points. And I always try to highlight it. It makes a certain segment of the population a little bit upset. But the amongst the top, if not the top two, are last year's fantasy points and last year's fantasy points per game are the most closely related to this future future year. And so I think we can do a better job. What's that?

[A]

Being good as a weird. Being good at fantasy just translates to being good at fantasy again right now.

[B]

There'S a lot of context and nuance that goes into that. And the way that you profit and win in fantasy football, because that's also closely correlated to adp, is find out why things are going to be different. But I think you have to start with that baseline of here's what the most predictive analytics, the ones that you're poo poohing because they're not near as advanced and they're too Neanderthal. This is what these say should happen this year. Now tell me why it's going to be different or what's going to be different.

[A]

See, that's something that leads, I think perfectly into the last question. We moved a little out of order on the show sheet here, so sorry for that. You can scroll back up. But this is something that I have questions about because I know you're great with numbers, but I know also projections play a big role in, in what you do. And I'm actually someone. I've, I've never done projections before. I've just done my rankings.

[B]

Wise choice.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm leaning towards like asking myself, do I want to do this right? And I think there's maybe a 1% of the 1% of people that actually play fantasy football that might want to do their own projections, but this is for them. What would be your advice to someone that is Trying to do that. Like, where's even the starting point?

[B]

Well, I think the, the beginning of it is do you enjoy doing things like that? Like when? Right.

[A]

So I'm shaking my head now.

[B]

After the Super Bowl, I start working on my projections for the next year and I'm not very busy, which is one of the reasons that I do it that time of year. But also, like, I can just get lost in that spreadsheet and that data for a week and really enjoy it and could talk about it a lot more than I do. But there's only a certain segment of the population that actually wants to hear about the process. And so I think it's not worth it to do that on your own if it's not something that you enjoy. It kind of. That of course, ties back to. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. But also there's a thousand people making fantasy football projections that have done it over and over and over that are probably good at it. And you're probably not going to find some process in the first or second year of doing that that's better than everybody else. So I think you should enjoy doing it if you're going to get started. I. My process really, really short is I start on the team level. So offensive coordinator, history, how good was this offense last year? What. And then moving to the players, what percentage of this pie for like, first off, it's how big is the pie? And then the second part is, what percentage of this pie does this player deserve? And then kind of a little bit of regression. Because for an example, I project the Lions to score the second most touchdowns in football this year. I project them to score 16 fewer touchdowns than they did last year because they had an outlandishly good year. Things like that. And then you, I think once you have that, okay, this is what the past says about what should happen, then you can go through and say, okay, I think this is going to be different. I think for this reason, I think this is going to be different for this reason and kind of massage them a little bit there. But I generally start with a pretty rigid numbers based process and then work my opinion and theories into it.

[A]

Well, there's something I love that you mentioned that the theories, the process, like you kind of have to go back and forth a few times. And there's also, I think what gets lost on people is they'll say, well, you have this guy ranked lower, but the projections say that he's going to score more points. I know a lot of people do rankings differently. Sometimes they'll rank someone higher because they say, hey, the, you know, the range of outcomes is different for this person. And I'm more willing to lean into that volatility because there's a higher ceiling. Even though my projections say this person's more likely to have a higher median output than other running back. If I'm like, if I didn't lose anyone there, like, that's why there's an important context that's in it.

[B]

Yeah. I think the easiest one of those is there's certain players that are not going to project well because they don't currently have a role that's valuable. And if you think they are good, you should rank them much higher than their projection. I generally have a rule that and this got just shredded last year. But running backs who are 29 or 30 years old, I'm not going to rank as high as their projection because they are riskier. Allegedly. It didn't seem like it last year, but I'm going to trust the greater amount of data that we have. And yes, players who I think if something like contingent upside that we talk about all the time, if I think that potential for something good to happen, I'll rank them higher. Somebody like Chris Godwin right now and. And still Rushy Rice, but I'm getting less certain about that one who we have some concerns about coming back from an injury. I'll rank them a little lower than what their full 17 game projection is.

[A]

Are you sticking with the old running backs are a little bit lower?

[B]

Yes, yes, yes. Aquan Barkley included.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, I'm not. I still. I think I still have Saquon Barkley ranked higher than Dave and Jamie. Everybody factors a little bit that into it. Like we're not gonna. I don't see anybody at this point advocating for Derrick Henry as the number four running back. I'm sure there's a couple, but we all do it to a certain extent. It's just how much do you want to buy us against that?

[A]

And that's funny because you immediately first name you say there is, yes, I am including Saquon Barkley. And you're like, I'm actually highest on Saquon Barkley out of the bunch. And that someone will look at those ranks be like, oh, Heath's a big Saquan Barkley guy. He's a believer. And you're like, no, I guess I just have the least amount of disbelief amongst everybody.

[B]

That's exactly right.

[A]

Yeah. So like that's. It's interesting because I think that when you. You try to work projections, I know you're looking at tendencies, right? And then even rankings. You. You want to maybe look at a broader spectrum of outcomes. But I think no matter what, even when we get into a draft, your rankings almost sort of change. And this has happened to me where I'm just like, I have this guy ranked higher, but I'm going to draft this person. And you do find that every once in a while, a little bit of those biases do tend to come out. Whether it's like I've heard from this show, it's, I need to have a running quarterback, I need to have. I need to have a young running back, I need to have a big wide receiver. There's different biases sometimes that we have. Do you find yourself falling towards one of those when you're doing rankings, projections, or even a draft?

[B]

Yeah, I think that the projections process itself probably lends itself towards valuing the guys with volume, the guys who have proven to earn volume, because volume is the mo. A more predictable thing than touchdowns. And so I, I certainly have missed out on some upside because of that. I've also missed out on some landmines because of that.

[A]

But.

[B]

And, and I think the one place, I mean, when we're talking about lessons learned from the past, and I think we've all kind of learned this together, and some people were saying it beforehand, but those mediocre running backs that the only reason they're being drafted high is because of their projected volume. I have to really pull back on because the projections are going to like those guys.

[A]

How do you, how do you try to separate these players, though? Because there's. I mean, sometimes it is just as simple as talent. But we can look at something, for example, a New York Giants wide receiver room last year in 2024, you get a ton of volume for Malik Neighbors. You get a ton of volume for Wandell Robinson. Two very different players in terms of production, in terms of skill level and everything. We can say projections love the volume that's there, but you're not drafting Wandale Robinson in the same spot. So how do you, how do you make those differentiations even when, like. Because there's gonna be a lot of times where bad. I don't want to say bad, but less exciting or less talented players are just going to be getting a ton of volume. Doesn't necessarily mean we got to skyrocket them up the rankings. Right.

[B]

Well, first off, I should mention that Malik Neighbors I missed on for the most part last year Because I think I was actually right that he wasn't going to produce to the level of his volume. It was just that his volume was so outlandish and I didn't predict it to be high enough. But yeah, I think like, there's certain types of guys and the low adot guys are, are very much a part of that. The, the day three guys who just happen to be starters are a big part of that. And the high volume guys on terrible offenses. Now, Malik neighbors just proved that wrong, but those guys are obviously guys that can be concerns as well in terms of the high volume guys.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I don't know if you can hear my dogs going crazy in the background. They love everything that you're saying right now. Oh, good, good, good. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, there you go.

[A]

You.

[B]

You tuned me into it. So now we can.

[A]

Because, you know, like, it's, it is something to, to try to follow because I feel like everyone is always looking for that skeleton key, that one thing that it's like, okay, we have unlocked fantasy football. It is now boring. We know how to be successful every single year. And volume seems like the simplest thing to just try to, to target. It just doesn't always work. Work. Because even lots of volume can lead to poor efficiency. You mentioned low adot. There's a million different ways it can branch off.

[B]

We're all trying to help you win your league. And so I don't want this to come off the wrong way. I, I do want to get as close to predicting everything right as I can. But you're not going to like, there's not a skeleton key to fantasy football. And you know what? Our jobs would disappear if there was. The, the, the randomness and the luck part is a feature, not a bug. It's the reason so many people like to play half. If you're listening to this and you play a fantasy football, you can think of the four or five or maybe six people in your league who wouldn't have a chance if this was all fleshed out and figured out. It's. It's different circumstances, different guys, and every year and we just get as close as we can. But it wouldn't be any fun if there was a perfect, perfect way to do it.

[A]

Now you mentioned there is no perfect way to do this. Right. And I feel like there's, there's, you know, perfect way to even run your own fantasy team. You can go a lot of different directions and I think a lot of people do that in their own fantasy drafts. Maybe they'll Take a player two rounds before consensus adp or they're putting way more of their fab on a player in waivers. I think it's easy for someone that does this for a living and analyzes it to maybe go against the grain or be an outlier. What would you say to someone in their fantasy league that is maybe too nervous about getting like, getting out of that comfort zone and doing something a little different in their fantasy league?

[B]

Well, first off, if like do what feels good to you is mostly what I would say, but at the same time, I think it's actually much riskier for us in our leagues playing with 11 other people that are paying attention and know what's going on to do that than it is in a standard home league. You can take all types of wild shots in a home league and if you miss on a couple of guys, you're going to probably be the, the first one to know about the guys off the waiver wire anyway. You'll probably be fine. So I think that your risk tolerance should be higher if you have reason to believe that you know this stuff better than most of your league mates.

[A]

That's something that I've noticed when I have my talks with like my high school friends that we still have our league, they'll talk to me about leagues they're not in. And the question I always get is like, hey man, I just want to know who's going to get me just a nice double digit fantasy points every week. I kind of just want to know who's going to be my most consistent starter. And my advice every year is just like, that's not how that works, man. Like, you're going to have the same amount of points every week. You're probably going to lose every single week if that's what you're looking for.

[B]

I, there's, there's also wide ranges of opinion on this in the industry as well. And I've stepped on more than a couple toes by saying this, but I'll say it anyway. I don't care about how consistent a player is. That's not something that ever factors in. And that's why I was a big Tyler Lockett guy back in the day. Tyler Lockett's gonna win me five or six weeks and when he scores six points, I'm gonna hope I have other guys that win me that week.

[A]

Do you have a point where you say, okay, maybe this is too far? Like I'm trying to remember, I think it was maybe Jordan Addison who he had like a couple weeks where he's top 12 and then a couple weeks where he is just outside of the top 50 or 60 and it's sure for as many weeks as maybe helps you win, he's probably going to make you lose more weeks than not. Or it could be perceived that way. Do you have like a line that you don't cross?

[B]

I think that really only comes into play with picks in the first two or three rounds. I don't think your wide receiver three ever loses you a week. Like sure, your, your wide receiver won or you're running RB1 or if you took a quarterback in round two, like that guy can lose you a week. But the guy you took in round six scoring zero is not going to cost you a week because he didn't score 10.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that's how it's funny. Jake Seeley was on and his advice was don't waste your bench. And it's exactly that. It's people, once you get to these later rounds you're going for safety instead of upside down and it feels like that's what we need to be going for every time. Those are the guys that, when you just like you said, they won't lose you your week, but they will win you your week.

[B]

I, I haven't found the exact like I, I wish I could just give you a point in my rankings where this happens but they become less dependent on my projections and they're not even like even round one is not exactly what my projections say. But they become less dependent on my projections the deeper you get into your draft and the double digit rounds. I don't care about them at all.

[A]

That's a good way to kind of look at it. I think you kind of have to, I don't want to say throw everything out the window when you get into those rounds, but go for it. Like go for it. I mean do we have, I don't even know, do we have like a number of how many people actually stay on your roster past week three. You end up dropping so many of them anyways.

[B]

Right. Double digit round picks for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's, there's exceptions to every rule. Like if you haven't drafted a tight end yet, you might want to draft a tight end who's going to be a starter before you for the Upside of Isaiah likely who I know that you're a big fan of from your tweets and same thing at quarterback. Like if you decided to go with no quarterback at all, then maybe you don't take Anthony Richardson as your first quarterback, just because he might be top six if he plays. Maybe you take somebody else that's a little bit safer and then take it Richardson. But yeah, for the most part I wouldn't worry about it after round 10 or 11.

[A]

So we, we talked about like how you, how you have used data, how you have created projections, your philosophies going through drafts and all these different things. And I think even to an extent, like a lot of these philosophies carry over to how you start and sit players, how you pick up off waiver wires. But there has been sort of this wave of new tools like AI things that people are using to help them make. I mean fantasy's been doing this for a long time by the way, helping make start set decisions. Like it's not a new thing. But I think it's just more public now and it's a little bit more accessible for everyone with stuff like chat GPT and then like you'll see it in articles here and there and you kind of know it's become this hot button issue. And I feel like it's just weird for people to dance around it like this. Just kind of hit it head on. What, what is AI for you? Like, do you use it for anything? Do you see a use for it with fantasy managers? Like, how does this enter the world of fantasy football?

[B]

I have been called, I think the way to pronounce it's a Luddite. Okay, with regards to AI and I, I can't fully dispute that. Like yes, AI artificial intelligence has existed probably almost my entire life. When I was playing RBI baseball against a computer, I'm pretty sure that was some sort of artificial intelligence that I was scoring 273 runs against in a single game. But I, I don't if, if anything I under use and dismiss it. I might occasionally use an AI answer in a search engine to try to win an argument at the bar. But other than that, I, I'm very, very skeptical and not optimistic about that thing whatsoever.

[A]

So it's funny, everyone I've talked to has sort of said like, yes, it has its uses. No, it shouldn't be replacing people. And I am very much right there in the middle of that where I'm just like, I get how we can use it. And I remember being super optimistic. I'm still very optimistic. But like the first time I started People, I saw my wife using ChatGPT. I'm like, oh my God, just watch any movie like ever like this. This doesn't go well, right? And it's it's. I think it's becoming more of a thing where people are. I would hate to see it be used for actual analysis of players and it becomes something where it replaces people. And I know that a lot of companies and people up top say that's not what this is here, not what it's meant to do. I'm going to be very intrigued to see how this kind of shapes out for users like fantasy managers of how they're going to be using something like this in their pre draft or weekly start sit decisions. Yeah.

[B]

Now if there was some way a potential use that somebody could design that I might use. It is if you could free up a couple hours on Tuesday night when I'm putting in my waiver claims. But I just, I don't. And this probably goes back to the, the show me thing I talked about at the beginning. I wouldn't. I, I've not seen anything from this technology that would ever make me feel comfortable saying please do this for me. I'm just going to go to bed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I would just assume that I'm going to spend more than I want to on a player I don't want when I wake up.

[A]

Yeah, I'm the same way with you on that is just maybe it's a little bit of the control freak in me but like I kind of want to have the last call on that. I kind of, I'm saying like I want.

[B]

And again, what are we trying to do here?

[A]

It's.

[B]

We're playing a game, aren't we?

[A]

What's. It's almost like we're trying to take the fun out of it.

[B]

It's like if I said hey, do you want to play a game of 2K? And then we both sit down with the controllers and we both hit sim and we just sit there. I don't, I don't understand. I want to make choices. I'm. Yeah, I'm, I'm the general manager of this team. I'm choosing. I don't, I don't get it.

[A]

Yeah, I get worried sometimes because it feels like there's also like the next generation. There's a little bit of that culture shift. Like I watch my 9 year old brother in law play video games and all he wants to do is figure out the way that he can never lose and like get all the best weapons for things and what are the cheat codes and I think that's like a universal thing.

[B]

But it feels like I used, I used the, the secret tunnels on Super Mario Brothers to skip the levels that I couldn't beat, sure.

[A]

Yeah. But like, that, I, I think that felt so different because it wasn't as accessible as it is now. It's like you heard it from a friend of a friend and you felt like you were in this very elite, secret club that knew how to beat something. You know, right now it just feels like everyone wants to get to that, that answer, that destination without the journey. It's like that's, that's kind of where I get worried with, With AI stuff. Heath, if you could see one thing change or become different in fantasy football, not necessarily industry stuff, it can be like, in. In leagues, the way people run their leagues. What is one thing that you would love to see more of or a change that you'd like to see?

[B]

I don't know that I, I. In the industry in general, and I think you've probably experienced this and it's going to sound like whining, probably, but if you don't like something, you can just not comment.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I recognize that pointing out the mistakes of others, I, I point out the mistakes of head coaches and players sometimes. So I, I understand. But it does seem like one of the ways to really get the clout that everybody would like is not needing to do anything yourself, but just pointing out the mistakes of other people.

[A]

Well, I mean, there's a big difference between you saying, like, man, Chris Godwin really had a bad game. You don't go over to Chris Godwin's, you know, Twitter account and like, DM him and tag him and everything. Right? Like, that's a big we. I not saying, like, we get this all the time, but it's happened before where someone will see, like, okay, these are the sleepers you need to draft, and they'll get to player number four and be like, DeAndre Swift. That's it. I'm never watching these guys again. I'm like, man, that's like, that's all it took. Like, we've said way dumber stuff.

[B]

I appreciate you working DeAndre Swift into the show.

[A]

You're welcome. You're welcome. I felt like I needed to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I honestly, you have been such a big influence on. On me. I think you've been a big influence in so many other people, whether it's been in the industry or people have just watched you listen to you read your work as fans. When it's all said and done and Heath Cummings retires from being a fantasy football analyst at the age of 98, you ride off into the sun.

[B]

Yeah, we're gonna need some AI to make it that far, I think.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think there's gonna be like horse riding for you at that point. No. 98. It's pushing it. But what. How do you want to be remembered for. For what you did in fantasy football?

[B]

I've never really thought about this, but I will say that the. The best thing that I get to do, I said earlier, I'm getting ready to head to Kansas City for the Scott Fishbowl live Drift, and we're going to raise a whole bunch of money for people that need it. And I. I've been fortunate enough to do the Christmas shopping with the Fantasy Cares for the last six or seven years. On the board of Fantasy Cares, we have the St. Jude Draftathon coming up with CBS and then in August and actually already started, but it'll really get going in August and we're gonna. We're gonna raise more than a hundred thousand dollars for St. Jude. Hopefully 200, 000. And I. I hope that there's some impact that we make through this game and it encourages even. I mean, because there's already so many people that participate in the Scott Fishbowl, so many people that give to Fantasy Care. So many during St. Jude month. I. I just hope that that legacy continues to grow in this game. Maybe not me, but this game becomes known as. Man, they really used that game to do a lot of good for other people.

[A]

That is without question the best answer I've gotten on this question so far. I mean, well, I mean, I'm only four guests deep, so who knows? But by like, guess number 10, it might be the sixth best answer we'll see. But. Yeah, that's. I think that's just a beautiful way of kind of really encapsulating what fantasy football is. It's. It's community, it's. It's joy, it's. It's kind of a purity that, that we've all come together for this fun thing that just enriches our hearts and so to try to enrich other people with what we're doing. You know, this game about a game that you call it is just. Yeah. Like, that's. That's what we're here to do, man. So I love that answer. Now that we've done all the. All the boring, nerdy stuff for almost an hour here and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And people have. Have, you know, watched this. I've got some. I don't want to call them rapid fire questions, but got some listener mailbag.

[B]

Questions and these like you were, you were nice enough to give me some of these questions beforehand. But these are, these are brand new fresh, so I have no idea what's coming exactly.

[A]

Yeah, no, these. I'm, I'm just, I'm just scaring you a little bit here. So Kyle over on Blue Sky Social asks for Dynasty. Is it possible to have too many players from one team if you're rebuilding? In his example, he talks about the Chicago Bears. He's got Caleb Roma, Dun, DJ Moore, Loveland Burden, basically the whole offense.

[B]

I, that's not something that I worry about. I understand why people do. It increases your upside, it increases your risk. I'm okay with those of those things. I think you have to know, like these players, it's, it's good to kind of go through the roster and say, are these players positively correlated or negatively correlated? Is it like if I have two running backs on the same team, I'm only going to have one good running back from those two. But if I have a quarterback with three of his pass catchers, if the quarterback's terrible, I'm going to be in trouble. So I think it's good to recognize that if it makes you feel uncomfortable, maybe spread things out a little bit. But that's not something I ever concern myself with. I just try to get the players that I like the most that I think are the best.

[A]

Now we have another question here from Colin who he asked a. A player specific question. And so Colin, if you're watching or listening, I reworded this to make it more conceptual and it'll still answer his question. So how do you go about this in drafts where you have a sort of. Do you ever have a must have player on your mind or in your rankings on your draft board that you are willing to reach for in a draft? Maybe going around early, two rounds early, like, I've just, I've got to have them, man.

[B]

I'm trying to think about who the question was about. But anyways, I, I don't handcuff myself before a draft to any strategy or to any position in a given round. So I wouldn't handcuff myself to getting any player. But by the nature of my rankings generally being a little bit maybe further away from consensus than the average fantasy football rankings, there are generally in given years, certain players that I just know I'm going to have ranked a lot higher than whatever the rank list is in the draft room and I'm gonna think I should draft that player in round four and nobody else is going to Take them until round six. So it's, for me, it's more generally of a battle of how long can I wait? Yeah, I'm gonna get this guy. I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen. But the, the I, for me, it's much worse of a feeling to know that to pass on a guy once or twice or maybe even three times if it's later in a draft and then to get sniped and you can't even get mad at the person for sniping you because you thought the guy should have been drafted three rounds ago, but you were trying to be too cute. Million percent I. I generally try not to take a player two rounds before I think anybody else will, but I'll absolutely take a guy around before anybody else will. I don't think it matters that much.

[A]

I1, I agree with you a million percent on this. I have been a victim to that. And I've never been upset that I drafted a guy early. I have always been upset that I missed out on the player. And I remember doing a draft next to Dave Richard where I'm like, man, you sniped me on like three guys. And he's like, no, I didn't. You had the opportunity to draft all of them. You just didn't. Right. I was just like, damn. Okay, I'll just go back to my shame corner. You, you, you win again, Mr. Richard.

[B]

Yeah, right. Now, if, if there's a guy like that in this year's draft, it's probably one name you already said. DeAndre Swift and a second. And we'll see how long in the training camp this lasts, but Jerry, Judy.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

All right, so those are the two guys that are probably the most outlandishly high on as of early July.

[A]

All right, well, we'll see when, when someone's watching this a year from now for some evergreen advice and they get to this part, they're either going to throw out everything that we said or they're going to put the stamp of approval. They'll let us know in the comments because they're good like that. Yeah. Okay, last question that I have here is from Jeremy and he is the fantasy football moderator for Reddit. Now he asks. This is a very specific one, so we'll let the wheels start turning for you. If you could start an eight team Dynasty league today with one NFL player and, and six. Well, yeah, and six non CBS analysts, who would you get to fill out the league?

[B]

Oh, boy, I'm gonna hurt.

[A]

I'm basically asking. Yeah, like I'M asking you to do a. Like a MySpace top eight here, but with. With an NFL player.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, how could I say any NFL player besides Patrick Bones? I figured, like, I loved Patrick Bohems before the NFL draft. And then I got the Waldman RSP. And yes, I've been reading the Waldman RSP since 2015. Maybe it was a 2014 even. Anyway, and he loved him. And then the Chiefs traded up to get him. It was my greatest draft day experience. And so. And it's my team. So, yes, obviously, Patrick Mahomes would be the player. I don't even know if he likes fantasy football or if he'd be good at it, but he'd probably be better. I would. He seems like one of those guys that, like, walks up to a ping pong table and he's never played ping pong and he's just better than everybody else.

[A]

Everything. Those kind of guys.

[B]

Yeah. Not me at all. But Although I was really good at ping pong once upon a time. Have I delayed long enough? Bloom would have to be in there. Okay, obviously, Alfredo, I'm gonna give one more. I'm gonna give, man. I'm gonna say one more football guy, and then there's gonna be, like seven football guys that I leave out. But I mean, every. If I'm going to say fantasy analyst, every league needs to have a guy that's probably not going to win. Right. Like, how are the rest of us going to win regularly? So it's probably Joey. I love you, Joey. I don't. I know. Like, I feel like I'm. I'm definitely. I'm. Joey and I are friends, but too often I say things like that. I don't want Joey to think that I don't love him, because I do. I wouldn't say it if I didn't.

[A]

So we'll be clipping this and sending this. Of course. Of course.

[B]

So. So it's me.

[A]

So we've got. So you've got you, Patrick Mahomes. We got Joey. Okay, so Heath, Patrick Mahomes, me, Joey Sig. So that's five people in this eight man league. We need three more.

[B]

I'm gonna take John Bosch because I need him to make up the rules and the league constitution. And I don't. I don't know that anybody's a better commissioner than John Bosch. So he's in charge. And, like, Scott Fish has to be in the league.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We've got to have Scott Fish.

[A]

That's a given. All right, you got one final spot.

[B]

Yeah, there's, there's way too many other names out there that I'm gonna leave somebody off, I think. I don't know if that's true either, so I probably shouldn't say it. You know, this guy's not at football guys anymore. Matt Harmon. I'll go with Matt Harmon as the, as the final guy. I'm, I'm sorry to everybody else. The, the truth of the matter is, and I'm not just saying this because this question put me in such a frenzy, I hate smaller fantasy football leagues. I don't hate any of you that play in them. And I'm glad that you have a way to play fantasy football. Here's the reason I hate them because I, I think the hardest thing and the thing that we're probably worst at but don't want to admit it because we like to act like it's a, a real skill that we're really good at, especially as analysts. I hate start sick questions and start sit decisions. And in an eight team league, I probably have six wide receiver twos on my team and my chances of choosing the correct one are all but impossible. And so if we had to do this, one of the rules that I know that our commissioner John Bosch would make is that it's a best ball league, so I wouldn't have to do that.

[A]

I gotta find this. I wrote it down because I was asking Pat Fitzmorris about this and I recorded with him earlier today, he is in a 16 team dynasty league or excuse me, no 16 team league, not dynasty league that does a 24 round draft every year. No waivers throughout the season, only trades. Does that sound like your cup of tea?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I could get into that. Especially if it's best bowl lineups, that'd be fantastic. And then I just have to, I just want to collect a bunch of good players and then let the results decide who starts. A coach doesn't leave some guy in if the first two quarters he's produced nothing, he drops three passes in the first half. You get to put somebody else in. I should be able to put somebody else in. And I will say I think the league that Bosch's commissions that I'm in, that I've been in the Longest is a 16 team dynasty league with 28 man rosters. Maybe so.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I like the deeper leagues. I'm the, the eight team leagues I'm bad at. I joined one two years ago. Scott White, one of the best fantasy baseball writers in the universe sent me an email late in August, I know you have too many leagues, but would you join this two QB league? Sure. And I joined it. And I don't think I've made the playoffs yet, man.

[A]

I'm in a ton of leagues. I've tried to cut down on them and so if I've left a league from anyone, I'm sorry. I try to be very cordial about it. You're just too many. One of the ones that I was in, same thing. 18 league, high school buddies. And good God, am I just. I was so bad at it. I think I got second to last place. And they don't let you stop hearing about it because they're like, you do this for a living, right? Loser. Yeah, it's. It's the worst feeling.

[B]

Yeah. Why don't you add four more people?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, we probably need to. I need to go make four more friends.

[B]

Well, but it might be easier to just get better at the 18 league.

[A]

And this is why I bring you on, Heath, to make me feel good about myself here, man. This has been a blast. I. I feel like I got to learn more about this game. I had to learn more from you, learn more about you. And I. I think and hope that the audience enjoyed this as well. And one thing I always love to do here at the end is. Let's hear what you've got working on over at cbs. I know you're doing a million different things, so why don't you tell everyone about it?

[B]

Yeah, go check out FFT Dynasty. Wherever you get podcasts. That's my. That's my baby. You can go to the CBS fantasy homepage and you can find the Dynasty landing page. And that's all my Dynasty content. I've also got redraft rankings and all of the regular redraft stuff over there as well. As I mentioned, go be a part of Fantasy cares. Go help us raise money for St. Jude. It is really rewarding. And we're going to have some. Some auctions going on in the next month for terms of the St. Jude fundraiser with some really cool opportunities. So check that out.

[A]

That's awesome, man. Big thank you to you for. For joining me and taking the time today. As always, I want to thank everybody for watching or listening all the way through, myself or Heath. I'll see you next time. How do you fall is all about cozy comforts, but when you're prioritizing your health, it's easy to feel like you're missing out. With Herobread, you can enjoy all your fall favorites because they're made with herobread, sliced bread, loaves, tortillas, bagels, dinner rolls and more. Try their all new hero noodles with 12 grams of protein and just 80 calories. You won't believe HeroBred's options have 0 to 5 grams net carbs and are high fiber from the taste and texture. They've even got small batch drops of indulgent favorites like popular Hero Croissant. And right now Herobred is offering 10% off your order. Go to Hero Co and use code fall25 at checkout. That's fall25EROCO. All figures are per serving of HeroBread contains 2 to 18 grams of fat per serving. See the product Nutrition Panels on Hero.co for more information. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.