Grief, Truth & Becoming a Better Man: John DeDakis Opens Up

Summary

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Episode Overview

Title: Grief, Truth & Becoming a Better Man: John DeDakis Opens Up
Podcast: For Good with Joseph "JoJo" Simmons
Date: November 18, 2025
Guest: John DeDakis – Award-winning journalist, novelist, writing coach

JoJo Simmons sits down with veteran journalist and novelist John DeDakis for a soul-level exploration of grief, resilience, truth in storytelling, and personal growth. The conversation weaves between John’s celebrated newsroom career, transformative personal losses, perspectives on journalism’s evolution, the interplay between fact and fiction, and the ongoing journey of healing and becoming a better man.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing John DeDakis

• [02:26] John describes himself now as "a novelist, a writing coach, a manuscript editor and a motivational speaker."
• JoJo underscores John's multifaceted career but highlights what truly stands out: John's heart and openness about grief and healing.

2. Inside the CNN Newsroom

• [03:37] John shares the high-pressure reality of CNN’s Situation Room:
  • News direction could "change all throughout the day, including while the show was on the air."
  • Praises Wolf Blitzer’s unflappable demeanor: “He’s a pro’s pro, a journalist’s journalist.” [04:08]
  • Memorable moment: The team having to cover Anna Nicole Smith’s sudden death—Wolf pivoting seamlessly from geopolitics to pop culture on live TV. [04:35]

3. The Heart of Good Journalism

• [06:52] John’s loyalty to truth originated in Nixon-era reporting:
  • “I’ve always been a big fan of the truth…concerned about being able to hold public officials to account.”
• Transitioning to fiction provided creative release but always anchored John’s "journalistic" values—clarity, accuracy, and succinctness.

4. Journalism’s Evolution & Challenges

• [08:16] John addresses journalism’s "devolution" in the internet era:

  • Content is no longer always scrutinized: "Anyone with a phone who pushes send or post is a publisher, but there’s no one on their shoulder going, where’d you get that? How do you know that’s true?"
  • A deluge of falsehoods, sometimes "coming from the administration, from the president himself," makes accountability vital.

• [10:40] For young journalists:

  • “No one side has the absolute corner on the truth.”
  • Job is “to get the facts, be accurate, be clear, be fair,” and be willing to talk to those you may not agree with.

• [12:21] Editorial opinion has a place, but fact-reporting "is a whole different" responsibility.

5. Shifting from Nonfiction to Fiction

• [13:37] John’s foray into fiction was born from necessity and personal boundaries:
  • Attempted a biography on a murdered friend, but the project strained family and personal relationships.
  • With encouragement, he poured his research and creative passion into fiction: “I needed a creative outlet…I just started to fictionalize it and embellish.” [13:37]

6. Writing Through a Woman’s Eyes

• [16:16] Lark Chadwick series, centered on a young female journalist, draws from John’s work with talented young women at CNN:

  • “Emotions are not gender-specific…women in my life are more willing to share their emotions and are more articulate about the emotions.”
  • [17:31] Insights from women at work: “Being a woman, at least in part, means playing defense.”
  • Regularly used his network of women as "beta readers" to maintain authenticity.

• [18:51] “I think I’m a better man for this. I can’t tell you how much I’ve learned just by listening. Guys need to listen to the women in their life.” —John DeDakis

7. Fiction vs. Journalism for Emotional Truth

• [20:03] Fiction enables digging deeper:

  • "Journalism is for the most part just the facts."
  • Oprah’s legacy: legitimizing emotion and the human story in news.

• [21:10] JoJo: “Emotion is a chance for real human connection…when you can read that emotion on a page, you can connect to something.”

8. Experiencing and Processing Profound Grief

• [22:31] John’s personal losses:

  • Lost his sister to suicide (1980).
  • Lost his youngest son to a heroin overdose at 22 (2011).
  • “Profound loss affects you…and it never goes away. It’s part of what defines me.” —John DeDakis [22:31]

• [23:35] Grieving Process:

  • Describes Kubler-Ross’s stages of grief.
  • References "finding meaning" as a sixth stage (citing David Kessler), which resonates with John’s own journey—processing grief through writing his novels.

9. Grieving, Crying, and Gender

• [25:39] "There’s no one way to grieve, and there’s no right way to grieve."

  • Encourages men to give themselves permission to cry.
  • [26:04] Unaddressed male grief and rage: “If you don’t cry…it stays inside. It festers. It corrodes to the point where…the tears have become bullets.”

• [27:36] JoJo: “It’s like a weight off your shoulder when you cry…it’s powerful. I think crying is more powerful than conversation sometimes.”

10. Mental Health—Breaking the Silence

• [29:15] John’s family history with mental illness, the lack of earlier awareness/treatment, and writing about these themes in his work.
• [31:40] Mental illness as a human, non-partisan issue: “I am not saying the other side is crazy…mental illness has, I think, permeated our political process…It’s a human condition.”

11. Marriage as Life’s Greatest Achievement

• [32:55] John names staying married for 47+ years as his proudest accomplishment—especially following a child’s death.

• [33:05] “Love’s not a feeling. Love’s a choice…we got through it together as a team…we weren’t going to be able to fix the other person.”

• [34:13] JoJo commends John: “Not a lot of men credit their proudest moment to their marriage…there’s no more realer man.”

12. For Good—Defining a Life of Purpose

• [36:08] John describes "for good" as the Golden Rule:
  • “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
  • Self-care is essential: “If you black out, you’re no good to your kid…being good to yourself and then being mindful of what others need as well.”

13. Mental Health Practices

• [38:03] John’s personal tools:
  • Journaling: “I journal every day…that’s why I’m not in grief counseling anymore, because my grief counselor…said, you don’t need me anymore. You’re asking yourself all the right questions.”
  • Mindfulness: Focuses on being present, “because we spend all our time regretting the past or fearing the future and we’re no good in the moment.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the impact of grief:

  “Profound loss affects you and it never goes away. It's part of what defines me.”
  —John DeDakis [00:20 & 22:31]

• On storytelling and truth:

  “I've always been a big fan of the truth…right from the beginning I was concerned about being able to hold public officials to account.”
  —John DeDakis [06:52]

• On writing as a woman:

  “Emotions are not gender specific. We all have the exact same emotions…guys need to listen to the women in their life.”
  —John DeDakis [16:16 & 18:51]

• On grief and emotional release:

  "If you don’t cry…It stays inside. It festers. It corrodes to the point where when it surfaces, the tears have become bullets.”
  —John DeDakis [26:04]

• On marriage and love:

  “Love’s not a feeling. Love’s a choice…marriages often don’t survive the death of a child. We got through it together as a team.”
  —John DeDakis [32:55 & 33:05]

• On living “for good”:

  “For good means being good to yourself and then being mindful of what others need as well.”
  —John DeDakis [36:08]

• On mental health routines:

  “I journal every day…I’m learning…to concentrate on the moment because that’s the only part of the day I can control.”
  —John DeDakis [38:03]

• On realness and masculinity:

  “Not a lot of men credit their proudest moment to their marriage…there’s no more realer man than a man that makes the choice to do right by their woman.”
  —JoJo Simmons [34:13]

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

• [02:26] How John introduces himself today
• [03:37] Behind the scenes at CNN’s Situation Room; handling breaking news chaos
• [06:52] Foundational values in journalism and truth
• [08:16] Journalism’s “devolution” in the age of social media
• [13:37] Creative evolution: nonfiction to fiction
• [16:16] Writing through a woman’s perspective; lessons learned
• [22:31] Losing his sister and son; the lingering presence of grief
• [25:39] No right way to grieve, and men needing to cry
• [29:15] Mental health and representation in narrative
• [32:55] What matters most: Sustaining a marriage through hardship
• [36:08] Defining “for good”
• [38:03] John’s mindfulness and journaling practices for mental health

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Resources Mentioned

• John DeDakis’s Lark Chadwick mystery series
• Enemies Domestic (novel; deals directly with mental illness and current events)
• The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle [40:02]
• Success Through Stillness by Russell Simmons [39:00]
• David Kessler’s book on grief: Finding Meaning [23:56]
• JohnDeDakis.com for more about John’s writing, speaking, and coaching [41:39]

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Summary & Takeaways

This episode is a profound, emotionally honest reflection on grief, mental health, masculinity, and the enduring value of empathy and truth. John DeDakis’s journey through personal tragedy, career transformation, and marriage resilience offers listeners practical wisdom and permission to embrace vulnerability. Both John and JoJo break the silence on topics too often glossed over for men—crying, loss, choosing love, and the persistent necessity of taking care of one’s own mental wellness.

Themes for listeners:

• There is no “correct” way to grieve; men must feel empowered to process pain openly.
• Truth and empathy—whether in journalism, fiction, or life—demand curiosity and humility.
• Caring for yourself is the first step toward caring for others, building legacy, and living “for good.”

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Transcript

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[John Dedeikis]

Profound loss affects you and it never goes away. It's part of your. It's part of what defines me. My sister took her life in 1980. That was a long time ago, but, you know, it's still fresh in many ways. My youngest son died of a heroin overdose in 2011. And, you know, he was only 22. And, you know, in many ways it feels like yesterday even it was, even though it was more than 14 years ago. That just sticks with you. And I think it's a sobering kind of thing. I can't tell you how much I've learned just, just by listening. Guys need to listen to the women in their life there. You know, a couple of times women have told me they've been in a meeting with a bunch of guys and they'll give a suggestion. You know, I think we should do this. Total silence. Two people later, some guy will say the same thing word for word, and everybody goes, oh, yeah, great idea.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah. She wants the truth. She wants. She's gonna. She's no frills. No straight. Answer the question. And that's the type of journalist we need. Right? What's good, everybody? It's your guy, JoJo Simmons. And this is the For Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad. And we're measured by what we do, not what we have. Today's guest is someone whose story really inspired me. John dedeikis is an award winning journalist, author and writing coach who spent decades in the newsroom, including as a senior copy editor on Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer at cnn, covering some of the biggest moments in history. After years of telling other people's stories, John started writing his own, creating the Lark Chadwick mystery series inspired by his time in journalism and his understanding of truth, loss, and perseverance. But what really stands out about John isn't just his career. It's his heart. He's walked through deep personal loss, losing both his sister and his son tragically, and has since turned that pain into purpose, using his platform to speak openly about grief, healing and mental health. This conversation is about resilience, storytelling, and how we keep fighting, finding light even through the darkest moments. John, welcome to the For Good podcast, brother. I appreciate you Coming on.

[John Dedeikis]

Thank you, JoJo. It's good to be here.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, man. I'm excited to get into all the things you've done and all the things you continue to do and the story that continues to inspire many. So we'll jump right into it. John, my first question for you is when people ask, what do you do? How do you introduce yourself now? Journalist, author, teacher, or something else entirely different?

[John Dedeikis]

Whoa, that's. That hadn't really thought about that.

[JoJo Simmons]

We start off pretty strong on the four good podcast.

[John Dedeikis]

I start, I start off by saying, hi, I'm John.

[JoJo Simmons]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Dedeikis]

You know, you try not to overwhelm someone with your past because I'm. God, I'm so old. But I, I mean, if you were to ask me to define it, I would say that I'm a novelist, a writing coach, a manuscript editor and a motivational speaker.

[JoJo Simmons]

Wow. I love it. It sounds like a man that wears many hats but has been able to succeed with those many hats on. So that's really cool. So I've seen you spent years at cnn, including as a senior copy editor on the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer. What was life like behind the scenes in that newsroom, talking about that part of your life?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, the Situation Room was the basic concept was happening now. We mostly covered geopolitical events, you know, wars, elections, you know, the major kinds of things. And even though we had a rundown, we had an idea of where the show was going to go, often things would change all throughout the day, including while the show was on the air. And so, you know, we were on edge all the way through because of the fluidity of the day's news. And Wolf was a master, unflappable. You know, he would be ready to go in one direction and during a commercial they'd say, oh, we're going to drop that, we're going this way. And he'd handle it without complaint, just, just like a pro. He's a pro's pro, a journalist's journalist.

[JoJo Simmons]

So he was a master pivoter. He knew how to pivot, he knew how to think on his feet and he knew how to work in a fast paced environment.

[John Dedeikis]

Totally. In fact, there's a great story that goes with this. There was a time you may or may not remember Anna Nicole Smith. She was a former Playboy Playmate, she a billionaire 90 year old guy and she was found dead. And so CNN was covering it wall to wall during the afternoon because all we knew is that she'd been found dead. We didn't know Any of the circumstances. Well, that's not in the wheelhouse of the situation room. So, you know, just before we went on the air, Wolf said, well, we'll do 25 seconds on it and then we'll move on because, you know, we already had our plan. And New York said, no, we're going to keep going wall to wall with this. So Wolf goes on the air, the guest bookings department just throws, you know, all the people at him that they can who are experts on her. And he's just following his journalistic curiosity. You know, who was this person? Why is she important? Why do. And on the way down the elevator, after the, in the elevator after the show, he and I were talking and he said, I didn't know who this person was at all. So he's just following his curiosity. And he said, somebody showed me your picture in Playboy. She was hot.

[JoJo Simmons]

I love that too, sometimes. And not to say that it's, it's cool to not know somebody is, but when you don't know who somebody is and you are given that task to go do that research real quick to go find out who they are, so you can actually be curious yourself as an Internet interviewer or somebody that's talking about it. Right. Sometimes my team brings me people on this show and it's like, hey, we got this person that does this. And I'm like, I haven't heard this name, but give me their bio. Let me go, let me go. Look them up, let me go. And then I'll get excited and enthusiastic about interviewing the person because like, okay, my team is picking the right people for me to speak to and they're so interesting. You know what I mean?

[John Dedeikis]

That's exactly it. And then what you do as an interviewer is you follow your curiosity.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yes.

[John Dedeikis]

You don't have to have the answers. That's why God created questions.

[JoJo Simmons]

I don't think that's the greatest. Interviewers are the ones that are curious. Right. Because now they're asking questions that other people want to know, questions that they want to know. And it becomes more of a conversation than an interview. And that's why I love doing this. You know what I mean? So that's working in such a fast paced, high stakes environment. How did that shape the way you think about truth and storytelling?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, I've always been a big fan of the truth. And, and that goes all the way back to when I first started in journalism back in the late 60s, and by this time Nixon was president, didn't have a reputation for being particularly Honest. And so right from the beginning, I was concerned about being able to hold public officials to account. The transition to fiction didn't happen until I'd been at cnn. So I'd been a reporter for a time, long, I don't know, at least 20 years. I was a White House correspondent when Reagan was president. And when I got to cnn, they made me an editor, which was, it paid well, but it was tedious, it was fault finding. And that's when I needed a creative outlet and that's when I began to tell to write fiction. But the, the same principle is involved, not so much the truth, but you want to tell the truth of what the actual story is. And the, you know, the skills that you bring over from journalism have to do with just writing succinctly, being able to write fast and being a clear writer.

[JoJo Simmons]

So speaking about your time at CNN and all the things you did there, the media landscape has changed a lot since your time there. How do you feel journalism has evolved for better or for worse?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, to a certain extent it has devolved, not so much. And I mean, I'm still a fan of cnn. They've gone through a lot of. During the first Trump administration, some of the anchors were saying things I never would have let on the air because they were taking a position and that's not their job. I think what really has happened, technology has always driven journalism. And you know, that goes to, you know, the invention of the printing press and the typewriter and the microphone and the, and the camera. All these things. These innovations have influenced how journalists do their job, how quickly they're able to get the news out there. Well, we are now in a situation where you've got the Internet, which means that anyone with a phone who pushes send or post is a publisher, but there's no one on their shoulder going, where'd you get that? How do you know that's true? Which is what happens in a traditional reputable news organization. People don't understand the levels of editing that are required before something gets on the air or gets in print. And so we are now deluged with falsehoods. And sadly, some of them are coming from the administration, from the president himself, who, and I don't mean to be partisan, but it is just demonstrably true. This guy lies reflexively and it means that reputable journalists need to hold him account. But the problem with that is holding him to account. I just didn't did an interview with a guy who said, Caitlin Collins, who is one of CNN's White House correspondents. She plays it straight ahead. You know, when Trump calls her a nasty person, she doesn't get rattled, she doesn't take the bait. And yet the guy who was interviewing me said she's a bitch because of the way she asks questions. No, I said she's doing her job. She's doing her job.

[JoJo Simmons]

She wants. Yeah, she wants the truth. She wants. She's gonna, she's no frills, no bullshit. Great. Answer the question. And that's type journalists we need. Right. So speaking about you, you spoke a little bit about social media and what it's doing to the media landscape, I think, about young journalists, and I'd love to know how. Like, what do you think? You know, what do you think these young journalists need to understand about credibility and responsibility in this era of social media and instant news?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, I think it's really important for people to understand that no one party, no one side, no one person has the absolute corner on the truth. There are statesmen on both the left and the right, and a good journalist is there to inform, not persuade. Your job as a journalist is to get the facts, be accurate, be clear, be fair. And so I think that's the main responsibility of journalists. And it just means that you have to be much more willing to withhold judgment and to be willing to talk to people you don't agree with. You know, there are basic standards for journalism. They never went away. And it's just a matter for a young journalist to realize your job is not to persuade, it's to inform.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's important too. You know, I think there is a culture of some journalists trying to persuade rather than inform. And I think as a journalist, they hold that responsibility to give us the facts and let us have our opinion on that. Right.

[John Dedeikis]

So let me clarify, let me clarify one thing there. You know, most newspapers have editorial pages. That's where the opinions are.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah.

[John Dedeikis]

And usually the editorial writers started as straight ahead journalists. They already know how to get a story, how to be fair. And what they are now doing, what has now happened, is they've earned the right to be heard. And so, you know, it's understandable that part of journalism is persuasive, but not just the fact reporting. That's a whole different.

[JoJo Simmons]

I love that. So you would say that a lot of experienced journalists probably go into editorial after a while. You would, you say?

[John Dedeikis]

I would say not. Not. I mean, not everyone. Some leave the business entirely. Some go into public relations. I left day to day journalism in 2013. And it wasn't when I, when I, when Trump ran for president the first time I'd been out of day to day journalism. My, my kids did not know how I voted. I was a registered independent. But I started taking a position, posting pushback posts on Facebook and places like that, pushing against the lies. You know, journalists are enemies. The American people, Trump. No, they're not. And so, you know, I'm, I was a little uncomfortable getting out on a limb like that because that's not where my comfort zone is. And, but you know, so I'm in a, I'm in a sense a former day to day journalist. But, you know, I do have some experience covering politicians.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, you spoke about a couple of questions ago. You kind of, you know, getting into fiction. And I want to know, after decades reporting and editing real stories, what made you decide to shift towards writing fiction?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, I needed a creative outlet. And the interesting thing is I didn't just automatically shift to fiction. I first started researching a biography of a friend of mine who'd been murdered. And so it was just the facts, but it was just a long form project. But what was happening is that it was expensive, it was time consuming because I was traveling, I was digging up information about him that is family didn't know and they were uncomfortable with what I was finding. And so they asked me to back off, at least for a while. And my wife at the time basically thought I was kind of obsessed with this project anyway, and so she suggested that I take some of my research and pour it into fiction. I can do that in my jammies, plus I get to make things up. And so it was sort of by necessity. I needed a creative outlet. I already had something going and I just started to fictionalize it and embellish. And I really went in another different direction altogether.

[JoJo Simmons]

You know, that's what I will say I like about fiction is, yes, it's fiction, but a lot of it is based off of some truths, right? A lot of it is based off of experience. A lot of it is based off of stories that you may have heard. And you want to bend the truth a little bit or you want to make it a little more entertaining or more interesting or whatever that is. But that's why I love fiction, because even beyond behind fiction, I feel like there's facts.

[John Dedeikis]

You say that I would. And I teach writing and one of the classes I teach is on how to write a memoir, which is, it's autobiographical, it's a thematic something from your personal life. But often My students come from a situation where, you know, there was abuse or there was some criminality, or there were some things that might embarrass other people, or they're just in a position not to know everything that they would want to know about whatever it is they're researching. And so one of the bits of advice I give is to fictionalize it because, you know, you may have a great story about your grandma and grandpa, but you know, they're not around anymore to answer all your follow up questions. And so there's just comes a limit as to how much you really know. But you know, you know what it's like to be in love. So you know, you take your own personal experience and imagine what it might have been like, you know, when grandpa decided to kiss grandma for the first time. You know, just to give you one example.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, that's a good example. Your, your, your Lark Chadwick series follows a young female journalist navigating truth, ambition and loss. What inspired her story and why tell it through her lens?

[John Dedeikis]

Good question. And I didn't set out to start writing as a woman in any kind of calculated way. It's okay, yeah, I think that's probably better. But when I started writing fiction, someone suggested that I should, I should write in a way that stretches who I am. Never been a woman, at least not in this life. And so I gave it a try and I discovered that emotions are not gender specific. We all have the exact same emotions. It's just that the women in my life are more willing to share their emotions and they're more articulate about the emotions they share. They're more willing to show their emotions. And so I found writing as a woman to be fascinating. Plus, I was surrounded by young women at CNN 25 years I was there and many of them were in their early to mid-20s and they'd let me ask them questions about what's.

[JoJo Simmons]

So that would that made it easier for you, like not to cut you off, but because I say I'm sure it's hard to write as a woman. We're not women, we're men. Of course we've married. You know, we know women, we know girls. So like there's a perspective we can get from talking to them and being around them and understanding them. But like, I'm sure it was hard not being a woman doing that.

[John Dedeikis]

Well, it was, but there were so many commonalities and yet there was one woman I worked with, gorgeous. And I remember asking her, what's it like for Guys to be coming onto you all the time. And she said, I can tell in the first 20 seconds if I'm safe. I never have to worry about being safe in a conversation with a woman. And that's when I realized that being a woman, at least in part, means playing defense. So it was those little tidbits that I picked up. And then a lot of these women became beta readers for me. Reading early drafts of the manuscript to let me know if I got it right or wrong.

[JoJo Simmons]

I love that. And I love that you wrote through the lens of a woman. I always thought that was so interesting, a man that could. That could take on that task and do a good job of it, job at it. Like, I come from the music space, and I always thought men writing for women and being able to succeed and write really good, like rap verses or whatever was so interesting. Cause it's like you were able to go inside of a woman's mind, a woman's life, and really sound like a woman, right? Or sound like you're speaking about how a woman would speak. So I always thought that was very fascinating that a man would take the time to not only want to write in a woman's lens, but to understand a woman, to be around women, to ask questions, to be curious, to try to get it right. I think it gives us more compassion for women, too.

[John Dedeikis]

Well, I mean, I think I'm a better man for this. And two, I can't tell you how much I've learned just by listening. Guys need to listen to the women in their life. There were, you know, a couple of times women have told me they've been in a meeting with a bunch of guys, and they'll give a suggestion. You know, I think we should do this. Total silence. Two people later, some guy will say the same thing word for word, and everybody goes, oh, yeah, great idea. They're in. The women are invisible. And it's. I mean, think of this. It's only been the last hundred years that women have had the right to vote. You know, the country was founded in 1776. It took until 1920 something for women to get the right to vote. What's wrong with that picture?

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, a lot. A lot is wrong with that picture. Especially how much women have shown us how strong they are, how intelligent they are, how much of, you know, trailblazers. They are, leaders, creatives, and you name it, anything you can do, they can do better. In some cases, I would say, right?

[John Dedeikis]

I think you got it. You got it.

[JoJo Simmons]

So do you find that fiction sometimes Allows you to tell deeper emotional truths than journalism ever could.

[John Dedeikis]

Sure, definitely. Because journalism is for the most part just the facts now. Journalism has evolved. There are now more documentaries and people can emote more freely on the screen. There's a great story. One of my writer friends tells. She's a Emmy award winning investigative reporter in Boston, Hank Philippe Ryan. And she's also written several, you know, best selling novels, won 27 Emmys at least. And she talks about when she was a young reporter, she and I are roughly the same age and she and I had a similar experience of wanting to cover a story from an emotional perspective. And in both cases our news director said, well, you know, that's not news. And then it wasn't until Oprah came along and showed that the, you know, the emotional dimension of people is really where the stories are. Because that's where you're getting to motive. That's where you're getting to the point where why people act the way they do. And so Oprah finally made it fashionable for journalists to do the human interest.

[JoJo Simmons]

Kind of stories, you know, and I also think it's because emotion is a chance for real human connection. We all deal with emotions, we all have emotions. So when you can read that emotion on a page, you can connect to something, you can relate to something. And I think it just makes it for a better read when it doesn't feel like it's not authentic. But when you can really tap into that emotion. I feel like the person reading it taps into that emotion and they're like, oh, I've felt that before. I know this feeling, you know what I mean? So that's why I think it is important and it's cool to know that somebody like Oprah was able to really open up that lane in journalism to show people that like, hey, the person matters, the story matters, but the person is really what matters in the story. Right. Because that is the story. People.

[John Dedeikis]

It's people who are the story in many cases. Even if you've got, you know, a plane crash or something like that. There's the human dimension.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, I wanna, we're gonna talk about some real stuff.

[John Dedeikis]

You've been pretty real so far, man.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah. But now we're gonna go a little bit deeper about, about your life and some losses and, and I hope I have been real and you know, this conversation has been amazing.

[John Dedeikis]

Well, I enjoying it too.

[JoJo Simmons]

Oh, thank you. Me too, bro. I hope we get to, you know, meet up in person too one day and continue more conversations. You've been open about Losing both your sister and your son tragically. How did those experiences change the way you approach your work and your life?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, profound loss affects you, and it never goes away. It's part of your. It part of. It's part of what defines me. My sister took her life in 1980. That was a long time ago, but, you know, it's still fresh in many ways. My youngest son died of a heroin overdose in 2011, and, you know, he was only 22. And, you know, in many ways, it feels like yesterday even it was. Even though it was more than 14 years ago. That just sticks with you. And I think it's a sobering kind of thing. I think it makes you a little more empathetic to other people. You know, there's. There's sympathy and there's empathy. Sympathy is. Oh, yeah, I understand what you mean. Empathy is. I feel it. And that sticks with you. There's an emotional connection that you have with anyone who is in pain.

[JoJo Simmons]

You said grief is something you learn to live with, not get over. What does that process look like for you now, years later? Because you said it still feels still fresh to you. What does that process look for you, the grieving process, even now?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, you put your finger on it. It's a process, and it's ongoing. Elizabeth Kubler Ross pioneered the whole stages of grief. And I'll probably, you know, it's five stages, and I'll get them wrong. It's anger, denial, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Oh, I got it.

[JoJo Simmons]

You got him. You got him. You got all five.

[John Dedeikis]

And I. And I entered. I interviewed her at a press conference years ago when I was a young reporter. And one of the points she made. She made two points. One is, we all go through grief every day. When the alarm clock goes off, you know, bargaining, 10 more minutes, you know, anger. Do I have to get up all that until we get up? Acceptance. But the other point that she made is that when we're going through this process, it. It's not a rigid, step by step thing. We can go through all those stages in minutes, including acceptance. And even though acceptance is certainly the goal, it's realistic. There's a sixth stage that was uncovered by one of her associates, David Kessler, who's written. He wrote a couple of books with her. And then after he died, one of his sons died. And so he wrote a book called Finding Meaning, the Sixth Stage of Grief. And I think that makes a lot of sense, and that probably is where I am now in the process, because I look back at the six Mystery, suspense, thriller, novels that I've written, all of them. My protagonist, Lark Chadwick, is dealing with grief from page one. And so that has defined her. And that subplot and that subterranean psychological dimension to her character travels throughout all six books. And so, in a sense, I'm processing it as I'm writing the novels.

[JoJo Simmons]

I love that six. One is finding purpose, finding meaning. Talk about writing about it. When you speak or teach about writing through grief, what do you hope people walk away understanding?

[John Dedeikis]

You're asking really, really excellent questions.

[JoJo Simmons]

Thank you.

[John Dedeikis]

I would like them to understand that there's no one way to grieve, and there's no right way to grieve. It's going to be personal. And I think that you need to give yourself permission to cry. I wish guys did that more, because I think, guys, we tend to. We tend to hold it in.

[JoJo Simmons]

We hold them back. Yeah, we hold them back.

[John Dedeikis]

And yet. And yet, when you think about it, I can't think of many exceptions to the rule of the mass shooter. Just about every mass shooter is a guy. And my hunch is that what's got. What's going on there is that in all of those cases, to one degree or another, there's unresolved grief and pain and anger. And what ends up happening is it doesn't go away if you don't cry. It stays inside. It festers. It corrodes to the point where when it surfaces, the tears have become bullets. Yeah. So it's just a matter of, you know, getting it out there, processing it, and wow.

[JoJo Simmons]

The tears become bullets. Was deep. Because that's basically saying your. Your anger, your sadness, it blows up. It turns into something that could be unsafe for not only yourself, but for everybody else around you and extending. Right. So I love that you said your tears can become bullets. And you. You. You nailed it with we hold back on crying. But I believe men should cry more. I've probably cried on this podcast three times. We were like, 30 episodes in, and it made me feel good. I was happy. Every time I cried, I called my team. I'm like, did you get it? I cried, and I loved it. Make sure it gets in there because.

[John Dedeikis]

I'm so glad you're saying that, because, correct me if I'm wrong, it's an emotional safety valve. It really is an emotional cleanse.

[JoJo Simmons]

It's like a weight off your shoulder when you cry, it feels like you released not only tears, but you've released all those feelings and emotions that you're feeling when you cry, you know, or when you just say it's okay to let these tears out, I'm not saying cry all day, 24 hours, but let the tears out. You know, let the tears out. And I think many people just feel so much better when they let them out. Because I'm saying, off my personal experience, I always feel better when I cry. I always feel better after I cry. And it's not like, oh, I'm so soft. I'm crying. I'm tough as they come. I'm tough as nails. I'm in the gym. I'm lifting weights. But that crying aspect is powerful. I think crying is more powerful than conversation sometimes. And that's just. That's just me, I think, you know, it's just sitting there crying and letting it out. It's more powerful at times.

[John Dedeikis]

That's me, too. I would. I would agree. 100. I mean, you know, I went through grief counseling when my youngest son died, and I didn't go through counseling when my sister died. And, you know, there was a. That was a really freeing experience. And. And I think it really helped strengthen me.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah.

[John Dedeikis]

To. To live life and to move forward in my life.

[JoJo Simmons]

I feel like I get stronger every time a teardrops not gonna lie it strengthens me every time I feel like it's my. It must. I must be Popeye. And that's my spinach. Just cry, and I'm ready to go. So I want to talk about something that we. We talk about here a lot on the podcast, and I love to speak about it. I'm a heavy advocate for it. Mental health. I've heard that you've also spoken about the importance of mental health, especially for men like we were just talking about, who may not always feel comfortable being vulnerable. What do you think helps break that silence as we talk about.

[John Dedeikis]

I think this podcast is doing that.

[JoJo Simmons]

Thank you.

[John Dedeikis]

Just to address it. I mean, my sister was. You know, she was diagnosed as schizophrenic, I think, but this was back in the 80s. I think she was probably bipolar, and we didn't have a word for it or medicine. And. And I think she'd be alive today if had the treatments for it back then. My sixth novel, Enemies Domestic, I think deals with mental health and mental illness head on. The title is taken from the oath of office that government officials take, pledging to protect the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. And in Enemies Domestic, my protagonist, Lark Chadwick, is White House press secretary. She's pregnant. The dad is dead. She's ambivalent about becoming a single mom, abortion is a crime. And the first question she's asked comes from a Tucker Carlson type who asks, are you or are you not planning to abort your unborn child? Now, that's a personal question, but not unlike what somebody like that would ask on a particularly polarizing and political question. And so unwillingly, Lark is thrust into the middle of this, you know, this highly polarizing conversation argument about abortion and a dictator becomes president. It could never happen. But. And so she is dealing with this issue and, you know, some of the characters that she comes across have mental health issues. And so that becomes, you know, a subplot and a subtext to the story because I think it's a reflection of, I think, where our society is now. I mean, look, the Republican Party is a Trump cult. You know, there's some men, there's some mental illness going on there when you can't really face the facts, you can't accept what the truth is. You have to sit, you have to, you have to hone tightly to your political doctrine. And I mean, I want to make sure I'm not misunderstood. I am not saying the other side is crazy, because I think that's a pejorative. But I think that, you know, mental illness has, I think, permeated our political process. And it's not just a Republican or a Democratic thing. It's, you know, it's a human condition. And, you know, no one party, you know, has the corner on that. But I think that we need to be aware of the need to be clear eyed about what the facts are, what reality is, as opposed to trying to paint reality the way we want it to be. Yeah.

[JoJo Simmons]

And it doubled down on you, making yourself clear. I love that you're saying, you're not saying the other party is crazy because mental health is not connected to being crazy. It's just, you know, things that people go through internally that need to be spoken about or need to be ironed out with a therapist, with a friend, with somebody that will listen with yourself sometimes. So I love how you doubled down and you made it clear, like, hey, I'm not saying they're crazy, because that's not what I want to say mental health is, or mental awareness is. But something's not going. Something's not right over there. Something's not right over there. Yeah, something's wrong. So looking back through your career, all the things you've done, from CNN to your novels, to mentoring others, what are you most proud of? And you might be proud of everything. But what, what was the because it seems like you should be proud of all you've done in everything you do.

[John Dedeikis]

But what.

[JoJo Simmons]

What would you say is your most proudest moment throughout your career?

[John Dedeikis]

I'm still married after 47 years.

[JoJo Simmons]

There we go. Congratulations. I hope I've just passed six years, so.

[John Dedeikis]

Well, congratulations.

[JoJo Simmons]

I got 40 more years, so there you go.

[John Dedeikis]

But love is a choice. Love's not a feeling. Love's a choice. And, you know, Cindy and I have had plenty of opportunities, you know, to go the other way. And we've. In fact, you know, marriages often don't survive the death of a child. And, you know, we got through it together as a team because we knew instinctively that we weren't going to be able to fix the other person. We were going to have to get our support someplace else. Because I think a marriage gets doomed when you start comparing your grief to someone else. You know, snap out of it. You should do it this way. That kind of stuff. Not helpful. And I've written a memoir. It's not published yet, but, you know, we had. She and I had some marital issues more than 20 years ago. And, you know, I faced a decision that required some integrity. And so I would say that moment. I'm not going to go into the details here comes out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I made a choice that I'm proud of.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yes.

[John Dedeikis]

And it was not an easy decision to make. And so, yeah, it saved the marriage.

[JoJo Simmons]

I want to let you know that right there, you're one of the realest men I've ever spoken to. You know why? I'm gonna tell you why. Because not a lot of men credit their proudest moment to their marriage. Not a lot of men credit their proudest moment to keeping their marriage and saving their marriage and working on their marriage. A lot of men will say, you know, I sold this many businesses, or I did this, or I, you know, I was able to do this, travel the world. I was able to meet Michael Jackson or whatever. And you're sitting here saying, my proudest moment was keeping my marriage after losing my son, after going through so much grief, after going through so much things, mentally, I was able to fight for my marriage, fix my marriage, and understand that we're a team and we're not gonna be able to do this alone, so we might as well do this together. So to me, there's no more realer man than a man that makes the choice to. To do right by their woman, do right by their wife, and to make it work like, I don't know, nothing can tell Me that somebody's more of a man than that, because more than the riches and the gold in life, it's the people you love, and it's the people you do right by. And I feel. I could feel that you have been through so much in life, and you've chosen the right choices, although maybe, you know, they were hard choices. I feel like you've chosen the right choices. I feel like you've made the right moves, and, you know, you've moved with integrity. So I do want to. I want to give you your flowers for that man, because you're a real man. A lot of real men out here that's gonna say that, you know, that's gonna say that their proudest moment is their marriage, you know?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, cue the tears.

[JoJo Simmons]

I don't mean to make you cry, brother, but, you know, we accept crying here. You know, we love it here. Thank you. So I do want to close this out. I know this has been a great interview, and you've been giving me some great answers, but finally, John, I want. You know, our show is called the For Good podcast. And I'd love to know, in your words, what does for good mean to you at this point in your life?

[John Dedeikis]

Well, that. I mean, the alternative is for bad, so we don't want to go there. Yeah. So I think it goes back to the golden rule, you know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It's. It's a matter of. And I like that the way it's framed, because it doesn't mean that you are oblivious to yourself and your needs. You know, they. When. When you're in a plane and they say, you know, if the. If the oxygen mask falls down, put it on yourself first. That's not being selfish. That just means that if you black out, you're no good to your kid. And so you got to take care of yourself, and you got to be aware of how you're doing. And so that then means that, you know, if you are, it makes you an empathetic person because you're aware of what causes pain. And so I think for good means a being good to yourself and then being mindful of what others need as well. And I think. I think that kind of sums it up for me.

[JoJo Simmons]

You nailed it.

[John Dedeikis]

Me on this. You.

[JoJo Simmons]

Oh, you nailed it.

[John Dedeikis]

I'm just making it up as I go, man.

[JoJo Simmons]

You've said things that nobody's actually said. That makes so much sense. Sense. You know what I mean? For good is being good to yourself so you could be Good to others as well. Right. It's. It's forever. I like to say forever for good. Right. But it really does mean the good in the world. You know, everything is for good. Whatever. This. This podcast is for the good of the world, the good of the community. Whatever, whatever.

[John Dedeikis]

You can phrase it this way. You could say it's for good. For good.

[JoJo Simmons]

There we go. We.

[John Dedeikis]

We've.

[JoJo Simmons]

We've said it before, so we. We definitely running around with that. And I know I said that was the last question, but I love asking all my guests this question before we head out, especially speaking about mental health. Could you give our listeners what you do for your mental health, if there's any steps you take in the morning or anything you do that they may want to implement into their lifestyle?

[John Dedeikis]

Two things I journal every day I look here. That's not for. It's not for everybody. But what I do is I look at the day before and I basically, you know, kind of. But it's often just the facts. But more often than not, there's, you know, an essay about, you know, why did I say that or why did I feel this way. In fact, that's why I'm not in grief counseling anymore, because my grief counselor, after two and a half years, said, you don't need me anymore. You're asking yourself all the right questions. That's number one. The other is, you know, there's a moment of what I call mindfulness. It's just kind of being centered and being aware of my breathing because we spend all our time regretting the past or fearing the future, and we're no good in the moment. And so I'm learning for my own mental health to concentrate on the moment because that's the only part of the day I can control.

[JoJo Simmons]

Love that. I agree with that. I stand on that. Enjoy the moment. Move in stillness. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I tell people, just move through stillness. I've been reading this book lately, Success Through Stillness, and it's really been helping me. Wrote it, my uncle, Russell Simmons, actually. So it was one of his books he dropped a few years ago. You know, I've been reading it. He gave it to me years ago, signed it. I've never read it. And I decided to pick it up the other day because I felt like I needed some stillness. And it, you know, it gives a lot of pointers on how to meditate. Gives a lot of pointers on, you know, how to remain still in life even when things are thrown your way that are meant to Shake you up. How to kind of try to stay still even in those moments. Because when you can control your energy and your emotions and the way you react, you can control the world. Everything surrenders on Amazon. Yes, it is. Yes, on Amazon. So when your mind is at ease, the world will surrender to you.

[John Dedeikis]

They say, there you go. I believe that. I love.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, but check it out. And if you got any books for me, let me know. Send them my way. I'm always down to read a good book.

[John Dedeikis]

I would recommend a book called the Power of Now.

[JoJo Simmons]

Well, I've read it. I've got the Power of Now. I got the dvd. I've got it all moving in, you know, just moving in now. Moving in now. This. Right. The Power of Now.

[John Dedeikis]

I love that book.

[JoJo Simmons]

Yeah, Love that book. I. You know, my dad's a big reader. He put me onto that book as a teenager, so I'm sweet. Yeah, yeah.

[John Dedeikis]

It's a. You were raised right.

[JoJo Simmons]

I try. I hope so, but no, thank you, John. This has been an amazing conversation. Your answers have been so, so, so, you know, great. And my listeners are really. This conversation, you know, talking about journalism, talking about mental health, and once again, I want to, you know, give you your flowers for being a real man through and through throughout life. And also like writing through the lens of a woman and all the things you've learned about women and, you know, the empathy. It's an amazing thing, John. So I do want to say before we get out of here, thank you for coming on here. Thank you for all you do in the world. Not just for coming on here, but all that you do in the world, all you try to teach, all you try to give off that you've learned. I think it's amazing not, you know, if you. Is anywhere that you, you know, any book or anywhere you want people to find you before you get out of here, please drop all that knowledge for people before I get us out of here.

[John Dedeikis]

Well, thank you, Jojo. It's. It's been. I mean, I'm glad we met and I hope. Likewise.

[JoJo Simmons]

We're friends now for sure.

[John Dedeikis]

We. Oh, we totally are. Yeah, we are.

[JoJo Simmons]

Did we just become best friends?

[John Dedeikis]

Yo. Yeah, you, you. You're you're at the top at the moment. There we go.

[JoJo Simmons]

There we go.

[John Dedeikis]

Cindy's one notch above.

[JoJo Simmons]

Sorry, I gotta put my wife above you, too. Don't worry about it.

[John Dedeikis]

People can find me on my website, which is my name, dot.com John de Dacus.com D E D J O H N D as in dog E D as in dog A K I S as in Sam. John.

[JoJo Simmons]

Everybody. John the Dacus Appreciate you coming. This is the 4 Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad and we're measured by what we do, not what we have. We're checking out. Till next time. It's your guy, JoJo Simmons. My guy, John the Dacus. Peace.

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