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For Good
Love, Trauma & Going Viral: Dr. Bryant Breaks It ALL Down
01:25:24
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant went viral overnight after her deep, unfiltered insights on love, relationships, and healing struck a chord with millions - including Nick Cannon and Cam Newton. She joins Joseph "JoJo" Simmons on the For Good Podcast to talk...
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- [00:00]
Jojo Simmons
Doctor Brian has gone viral for dropping truth bombs and holding people accountable. Don't come for me. This is a positive podcast. If she drops a truth bomb on you that it hurts, you gotta look in the mirror.
- [00:11]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I advocate for more husbands, more wives, and less baby mamas and less baby daddies. We have to start pushing that because in our community, what creates wealth isn't real estate.
- [00:21]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [00:21]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
It's family. And if we don't have family, then we are divided. And we all know a culture, a house divided, cannot stand.
- [00:31]
Jojo Simmons
What's going on. Hey, everybody, it's your guy, Jojo Simmons. And welcome to the For Good podcast, where we focus on the good, never the bad, where we're measured on what we do and not what we have. Today I am honored to have with me Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, a psychology expert, life coach, talk show host, and mental health advocate who has been shifting the narrative around the wellness and ways that hit home for so many of us. I appreciate you being here with me, Jojo.
- [00:56]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
First of all, I said this to you a few times. Us aunties and big sisters who've been following you since you was little JoJo on your family reality show. We didn't even know you was doing the do. When did you even start having sex like you are grown up. When you first reached out to me, what did I say? I'm like, jojo.
- [01:12]
Jojo Simmons
That was the first thing you said. Little JoJo. What?
- [01:14]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Little JoJo.
- [01:15]
Jojo Simmons
You like Little JoJo? What went a podcast, Talk about marriage, mental health. What's going on?
- [01:20]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
When did you grow up on us?
- [01:22]
Jojo Simmons
Life goes fast, right? Time flies. And I think a lot of people see it that way. Even when they see me in person, they, like, in awe of, like, wait, you're with your kids, your wife.
- [01:32]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Yeah.
- [01:32]
Jojo Simmons
You've got a beard. Like, you've got all this. But, yeah, man, time flies. I am 35 now, so I was doing that show from ages 14 to about 19. So, yeah, I'm 35 now.
- [01:43]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
What was it called? What was it?
- [01:44]
Jojo Simmons
It was Run's House.
- [01:45]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Run's House.
- [01:45]
Jojo Simmons
Run's House.
- [01:46]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Oh, my God. Yes. And he start off in the bathtub and giving arts, and he would give his wisdom and, like, what to do. But first I wanna say, I know we're gonna jump into this first love that you're doing this podcast.
- [01:56]
Jojo Simmons
Thank you.
- [01:57]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
You're allowing people of all communities, because mental health is not a black right or a white right. It is a human right.
- [02:04]
Jojo Simmons
Yep.
- [02:04]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That's for all races and all genders. I wanna make sure I Said that. I know that I advocate a lot for black in mental health, because I do. But mental health, again, is a right for all races, all genders, and all cultures. So thank you for doing this. Second, very proud of you. We spoke about this a little earlier, before we started to film, because you did it the right way, and it's not one way to do it the right way. And when I said, I'm proud of you, you did it the right way, you said, well, I had my.
- [02:31]
Jojo Simmons
I said, I had my child before, my first child before marriage. And I said, I don't know if that was the right way because obviously, you know, a lot of people say the right way is you get married and you have the kids. But you did say something very deep that I took with me, so you can please repeat that.
- [02:44]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I said, no, I said, you spin the block. I said, with the same woman. I said, then you spent the block again and married her. Then you spent the block and bought a house on that same block and then made a home in that house on the same block. So you never left the block. So at the end, you did the right thing. You have a family. You didn't create a house that's a broken home. And to those who have, you're not doomed. It's just about getting the right tools to figure out what do I do now that can create healthiness in the space I'm in. But for you, proud, because, you know, I advocate for, and I don't care if it's unpopular. I advocate for more husbands, more wives, and less baby mamas and less baby daddies. We have to start pushing that because in our community, what creates wealth isn't real estate. It's family. And if we don't have family, then we are divided. And we all know a culture, a house divided, cannot stand. And we're all creating relationships and families on sand that slides and there's no foundation, right? And somebody has to be bold enough. And I love when Kendrick Lamar says. He says, there's only a few nigas that are standing on it. He said, there's only a few bit chs that are really standing on it.
- [03:48]
Jojo Simmons
Right?
- [03:48]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And he said, look, I'm pissing niggas off. Somebody got to do it. I'm going to make it right. Somebody got to do it. Yeah, Seriously. And when you have platforms like this, you're that somebody doing it.
- [03:57]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [03:58]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Doctors like me, who folks love the hell out of what I'm saying one day and then go, oh, my God, I'm triggered By what she said, doesn't matter whether you like it or love it. Can you learn from it?
- [04:08]
Jojo Simmons
You know, that was one of the reasons I reached out to you, is because you do tell the truth, and the truth hurts. That is a true statement for a lot of people. So, like, you know, having you on here was important for me because you hold people accountable, and I think holding people accountable is important in today's world. And you say that, you know, this is a platform. I'm one of those people doing it. That was one of the reasons why I wanted to do something like this and advocate. The way I advocate is because I saw there was a lot of men in my age group that were not like me. And I don't say this to, like, brag or say, like, But a lot of them don't really know where they're going in life when it comes to, like, relationships or just life. Right. And I'm like, I want to be that younger guy that I dress like you and fly like you. I get. I get drippy, like, y'all pull up in a fly car. But I love my family. I love my wife. I love my kids. I don't want to jeopardize that for anything. You know what I mean? That's kind of like my personal. So I always push that to even my friends. Now, like, all my friends, like, it's your fault. Like, I'm out here committed to my girl. I'm like, you're supposed to be, bro. That's kind of how I see it. I won't even kind of be around people that.
- [05:10]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But why is that so important to you? Because I'm asking. Because you came and you come from, like, I have a broken family, so you know that a broken family can work. Yeah, Right. You came from a blended family. You know that we can blend.
- [05:22]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [05:22]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And I love all my siblings. I see that you do, too. So why is it so important for you not to create another broken home, not to create another blended family if you came from it?
- [05:32]
Jojo Simmons
And it worked because I didn't want it to be like that for me. Me, personally, I'm so much more peaceful knowing that I'm with my best friend. But not only am I with my best friend, I'm with a great mother. I'm with a great woman. I'm with somebody that got my back. I'm with somebody that had my back before I even knew I was confident enough to kind of come back out. Like, a lot of people don't know. Like, I kind of ducked away for a little bit. Because the narrative of people, just people are harsh and people are mean. Right? And I grew up around a lot of that scrutiny. And I found someone that saw me and didn't see anything else, didn't see whatever it was or whatever it is. And I told myself I owe this person the respect, and I owe this person the decency of being real with them every time. I'm not saying I've been a perfect man. I've been with my. My wife since I was 20. I was a pretty big star at that time.
- [06:23]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So that's what, 12, 13 years?
- [06:25]
Jojo Simmons
15 years? We've been married five years. So, like, for me, I just always.
- [06:30]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Knew, like, wait, but you said something. You said she deserves for you to be that type of guy that honors and respects her.
- [06:36]
Jojo Simmons
Right, because she honors and respects me.
- [06:37]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But that's a direct reflection of who you are as a man. And this is what I keep trying to explain to men in general, that women just experience the love and the respect and the honoring you have for yourself. You're not honoring me because I'm a particular woman. That's why women of all calibers get dogged. Woman of all calibers can get loved and treated well. Right? It depends on what that man has in him. You can only honor your wife, Jojo, because you honor yourself. You're only respecting her because you respect yourself. And so when she gets you, she gets everything that comes with you, the good and the bad. She just happened to choose a man that honors himself enough to where when your cup runneth over, she gets to experience everything that pours out.
- [07:19]
Jojo Simmons
Exactly.
- [07:20]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And this is why a man creating a certain household, a man being abusive toward a woman, or even a woman being abusive toward a man, it goes both ways because they both fly. There's baby mamas, there's baby daddies, there's abusive women as well, not just men. That's a direct reflection of that person. It's not even a reflection of the person who's being victimized. It's a reflection of the person who's doing the abuse. That tells me everything about how you feel about yourself. That shows me the pain and the trauma that is in you. Because everything you're doing, if it is not something that's healed, it's pain.
- [07:52]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [07:53]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And that's a trauma response. So most folks are in relationships with people who they think they're in relationship with that person. You're in a relationship with their trauma. You ain't even met the person.
- [08:03]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [08:04]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Because all you're doing is experiencing how their trauma responds from something you did not cut, From a cut that they came into the relationship with.
- [08:12]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [08:12]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That every time you do something that triggers a cut, they going to bleed on you. And everybody's blood isn't tears. Some people's blood is abuse, Sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse. Some people's blood is telling you that you are exactly how they feel about themselves. You ain't nothing. Because I don't feel like nothing. You don't love me because I'm not lovable.
- [08:32]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [08:33]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So no matter how much you pour into me, I talk about pain pockets. Pain pockets are pockets. There's an empty space below here. And as you pour into somebody who has pain pockets, it just filters through the bottom. Healing comes in and patches up the pain pocket. It doesn't make the pain go away. You can still revisit and say, I've been. I heal from that. Look at me. But when people pour into you now, you got a place that can facilitate their love. Before that, you are unlovable. This is why a person cannot love you into healing. They can facilitate and hold space for you, but you gotta do the work. And until then, all you're doing is pouring into a glass that's not only empty, but it's hollow at the bottom.
- [09:14]
Jojo Simmons
Right. You can't heal somebody that's broken.
- [09:17]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
They have to do the work for themselves. Everybody has to carry their cross. Jesus and his disciples all carried their cross, and it was time for him to get crucified. You tell me who they crucified along with him. By himself. And when he resurrected, he was by himself. He had an audience, but nobody else.
- [09:35]
Jojo Simmons
Nobody come to get on that cross.
- [09:36]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
With him because that was his moment, right? That was his cross that he carried. That was his resurrection.
- [09:44]
Jojo Simmons
Wow, we starting this off kind of crazy. I was just about to say, before we jump into the serious stuff, I was gonna say I wanted to tell everybody up front that I. That Dr. Brian has gone viral for dropping truth bombs. Right. And, you know, holding people accountable. So I just want everybody don't come for me. This is a positive podcast. If she drops a truth bomb on you, that it hurts. You got to look in the mirror, you know, you got to look. Don't come for me. It's a positive podcast.
- [10:11]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Come for him. During this episode, we are partners. So you come for me. You come for him. Okay.
- [10:17]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [10:17]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Okay.
- [10:18]
Jojo Simmons
So, yeah, I mean, I think you kind of segue perfectly into some of these questions I want to ask about just trauma and childhood and Things like that. So, you know, I think you've had a huge impact with your work, but it all has to start somewhere, right? What childhood experiences shaped your passion for mental health and led you to this path, especially when it comes to communities of color.
- [10:39]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I love that I was just, you know, and I was, I am just a little broken girl from the hood. Straight up, I'm 42 year old woman and I'm still just the little broken little girl from the hood who experienced teenage parents who experienced abandonment growing up and in the midst of being in my brokenness, although we had so much love and so much support, I just been blessed to have. I always say God gave me four parents, my biological parents and then my grandparents, Mariah and Bailey, who raised me because my parents were 16 and 17 when they had me and couldn't fully raise a. They knew how to make me, but forgot teenagers can't really raise kids. So my grandparents stepped in and raised me. But through that experience, there was a lot of abandonment, a lot of neglect. I had a lot of questions. I had questions for God as a little girl. And I remember asking God one time, I said, I want to know, you know, why is it that my mother is an addict? I don't understand it and nor do I like it. And now I'm probably like nine or ten. And then, you know, God created me, so he knows how blunt I am. So let me be the creation he created. And I said, God, I don't like it. And he said, in order for you to understand it, I have to let you experience it. I said, I'm good, I'm good. I don't need to experience it then. And that was my first experience, Jojo, in my first lesson of learning how to lean not onto my own understanding, but trust God in all his ways. He said, but if you nest in me, I'll show you things that will give you an understanding of it. But I never let you fully, fully have the experience that'll give you the full understanding of why she does it. And then he made promises to me like, I'll, you know, I'll give you back the time that the locust and the cake and worms took. Didn't understand it when I read it or when I heard pastors like Bishop Jakes preaching on it. But as I got older, my mom is no longer, you know, on drugs. She's been sober for 10 plus years. She's a vice president of my company. Yeah, she has her own business. She runs our home. She travels the world with me. And she's actually, you know, besides my grandmother, the best mother I've ever experienced and met, period. I hope that I can be 1% of the mother her and my grandmother were to my kids probably won't be able to do that, but I'm gonna try. But I said that to say, God will really give you back the time that the Lokes and the kangarms took, but you have to be able to nest in him. And so for me as a little girl going through those experiences of these emotional roller coasters of not understanding, right, what is going on and why. And I don't like it. I just said, okay, I gotta figure this thing out. I'm the oldest of seven. There's nobody in front of me. I'm the first grandchild. There's no one to lead or teach me. So all I had was family, love, support, and God. And so God took me on a journey that allowed me to really see myself and it allowed me to really understand another. The Bible verse that says, it was good for me that I was afflicted. Because my affliction helped me figure out how do I take my broken pieces and how do I create healing and how do I make peace from this? And once I figured that out, I said, okay, if this little girl from the hood, product of two parents, mother who did the drug that my father sold, could figure out how to take her brokenness. I mean, I was broken. And really make peace and heal from this, then I'm not the only one who can do this. And when I realized that, I was like, no. I made a commitment to God. I said, I will always take the tools and give back to my sheep. Our sheep, God, my bad, our sheep. Because they'll know our voice. As long as it's in your will, I will do it. I don't care if I'm exhausted. I don't care if I'm just getting off of a flight. Like this morning at 9am, I'm gonna show up. Not for me, but for you. And I'm gonna be the vessel to give your words, to give your principles, and to help everyone who looks like me. And looking like me isn't just black. Looking like me is a person of trauma or pain who is stuck and don't understand how to get out. Who was bear crawling through some things, who was feeling sh. Feeling guilty and just wants better. And for some people, they are mad at God because I've been there too. I said, I will always continuously be the shepherd for that. And so I made A commitment. A commitment. Jojo, was doing what you said you would do regardless of how you feel. So I do it scared on stage. I do it nervous, I do it confused. I do it on my menstrual, I do it with cramps, I do it with a headache. I do it. And all I say to God is, I trust you. I trust you. What will you have me say? Who will you have me say it to? And what will you have me hear? And from there I just let it come out. And so it's important, you know, and I'll end with this for, again, people not to like me or dislike me. Even though a lot of people love what I'm doing, it's important for them to see themselves in me and say, that's that brokenness that I've been trying to figure out. That's that trauma that I'm in right now. That's that woman. That's that piece. That's that abandoned little boy, abandoned little girl. That's it. Let me focus on that and see what Doc has to say in that space. And I'm hoping that it'll heal and shift and they'll continue to heal and shift because one person changes the trajectory of another person and it ends up being a whole community, which is my goal, that shifts and becomes better and lives a better quality of life as a whole.
- [15:40]
Jojo Simmons
So would you say the best type of mental health therapists are the ones that were usually the most broken and were able to go through things because they can relate to that person that is drowning?
- [15:54]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So there's a duality to that because I don't think so in certain situations. Yes, I think because empathy and sympathy are two different things. Right. Sympathy is, you know, Jojo, sorry that happened to you. Dane, what can I do to help? Empathy is damn like, I feel you because I've experienced that. I've been there. I get you sitting, you know, apart from somebody who says, now I get you is a different feeling even in a friendship, even in any relationship. Right. Let alone in a therapy or coaching setting. But I have to say this because I don't think that a cardio surgeon has to have had a heart attack in order to perform the most effective life savings heart surgery on somebody. I don't think that somebody who's. And I say this with all due respect and I'm very sensitive about what I'm about to say, who's experiencing, let's say, hiv, hepatitis B, needs to have a doctor who's prescribing them and treating Them and saving their life have to have the same diagnosis of sickness or disease for them to treat you. I think it's about the results. If the person, the therapist, the coach, the psychologist you're going to. You resonate with, they can have compassion for you. They're giving you tools and homework that can read you the results that you want. I think that's the right person. And I say that because obviously I'm not married and I've caught off multiple weddings and I'm not a mother yet. But I don't teach people how to be married. I teach people how to get out of their own way. Because it's the barriers in your way that come and intoxicate your marriage. It's not marriage. Marriage is pure. It's beautiful. And so I don't think you have to have a turmoil or a traumatic upbringing or life to be able to help people. I think you have to have a heart. You have to have the willingness to understand. You have to have the willingness to gain culture, competence on these folks. And you have to really care about your clients getting to a place of a better quality of life. Because there's some issues. My clients come with that sexual abuse. I have siblings who father have sit them in front of the TV and have them watch porn, and he sexually abused both of them at the same time. I've never experienced that, but I've helped them come out of their pain. I've helped them heal from that. Right. So I just think, again, it's important for people to. You have to be able to care. We need people to really give a shit about people.
- [18:16]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [18:17]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And not just be worried about how much can you pay me for my services, but actually care. It's a service, but I care. I go sometimes I'm going over in session because you care. And I'm late for my next session, and I care.
- [18:27]
Jojo Simmons
That's the passion.
- [18:28]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Oh, my God. I love what I do. Yeah.
- [18:30]
Jojo Simmons
So you have been in the mental health field for quite a while now, but 17 years. Recently, though, interviews like ones with Cam Newton and Nick Cannon have kind of gone a little viral to amplify. Not a little viral. They've been viral to amplify your message. What has it been like for you to go viral and what's the impact of both the positive and negative attention that you've been getting? Because I've heard you say, you know, some people don't like you and some people do like you. What has that been like for you, going viral with those interviews and seeing the impact on the positive side and the negative side.
- [19:01]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Let me say this. I. When I did the interview with Nick and with Cam, I did Nick Cannon first shout out to Nick, one of my good friends. Love you. And when I did both interviews, it wasn't with intent to go viral. It wasn't with the intent to expand my celebrity. Right. Likeliness or any of that. I really just did it from a place of who I am and how I operate in session. Any of my clients will say, she's the same person in session. I woke up Monday. Monday morning from Vegas, headed to the airport, and I literally opened up my calendar and I was booked up with sessions for the next six months. I was like, what the. I thought it was a glitch. I'm refreshing. I'm calling my assistant. I'm like, I'm getting on a flight.
- [19:43]
Jojo Simmons
And I have a session because of these.
- [19:45]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
This is right after viral interviews. This is literally right after Cam Newton's clips went. It didn't even go viral. It went like wildfires. It was like a triple viral moment. And I'm like, I'm getting on a flight at 9. I have a session at 10. We gotta move these shift. And then bookings and bookings. So what I'm saying is I immediately within overnight was like, okay, I have to learn to facilitate all of this. Luckily, I already had a team. I already had a manager. I already had a pr. I already had Ryan assistant, and I already had other coaches that work for the Dr. Bryant Institute. But the magnitude of how it came in, I was like, okay. And I had a conversation with God, and I said, I didn't do this for this. I want to be able to make a shift, and I want people to be impacted by our meaning, God and I's influence and our plan and my commitment to you. And God said, I didn't ask you that. I said, okay, okay, here we go again. Me and God. Me and God go down this road a lot, child. Okay? We have this relationship. And I said, okay, what do you want me to do? He said, you have a flight to catch. I'm asking you to get on the flight. I said, okay. He said, and then, remember, Jeremiah, I know the plans I have for you. Plans to prosper you, plans to give you a good life. He says, so you get on the flight. I'll take care of the rest. I was like, but I got people waiting for me to get in session, and I can't leave these people hanging with their PRs. And God said, flight. Shut up. Do it. I said, okay, okay. I get off the flight and I just literally go from airport to session and I just start hitting it and hitting it, and then all of a sudden, I'm on a speaking tour that's every single weekend, two to three different cities and states. And as we continue to lay it out, I'm not playing. All I did was show up, and God created the system. All I did was show up, and God pruned and fired people that were not built to carry the weight that is now. And then he hired all new people. I am not exact. All I did was be obedient, so I didn't have to sacrifice. And as he laid it out, I just kept showing up. And the interesting thing that I love JoJo. Someone said, Doc, you don't get. You don't get nervous when you're going to interview. You know, millions of people are watching, you know, you know, you're on stage, there's 9,000 people at your shows, and it's sold out. You don't get nervous. And I don't. And I even went and had to ask my own self, like, well, why don't you get nervous? Like, is that an arrogance thing? Are you just like, what's up? No, it's because I'm literally nesting and believing in every fiber in my body and trusting God. And I'm saying it's not possible to make a mistake if it's your will. So game time. Let's go. Run the play. Let's go. And every time I tell God, run the play. Like, whatever you will have me say, I'm not worried about the outside chatter. We got a ship that has taken sail, right? And I said, God, you know what? As long as you take care of the outside chatter, I could take care of the sail of this ship.
- [22:41]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [22:41]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And God said, bet. And I said, bet. And so I don't really notice the outside chatter. I hear the people rooting for me, and I hear the people who are stopping me in the airport or in my DM saying, you saved my life. I was suicidal. You saved my marriage. I was at, in Atlanta doing my talk show. I was getting a rental car, and I was at a luxury rental car place. And I'm just, I literally have. I have slides on, hat on. I look a mess. And a guy walks over, he's a pastor, a big time pastor of a megachurch. I won't say his name. He said, Dr. Brian. I said, yeah. He said, I just had to walk over because you saved my life through my Divorce. And I said, huh? He said, I divorced and I had some ideations that weren't very godlike, and you saved my life. And I said, I just turned and I want to make sure he knew I acknowledged him. And I said, oh, my God, thank you. And he's like, let me pay for your rental car. I'm like, absolutely not. I didn't do that for that, right? Like, please let me. So those are the things that really catapult me. Those are the things that keep me going. Those are the things that are my real paycheck, that are the real wealth, that are not money. When I have people who are affluence, people who are not affluence. And I have young men from the hood who walk up to me and Charlotte while I'm eating my brunch. And he goes, excuse me. Excuse me. I thought it was you. Do you mind? I said, oh, no. And he lays out, I just got out of prison about 10 years ago. I've been with the same. He lays out his life, and I got these multiple kids. And he goes, I want to be different. And it wasn't until I heard you on Cam Newton did I really understand that I was creating houses that were broken homes. But I'm going to be honest with you. I don't know anything different. I said, because this is your norm. This is all you know. So when you have men who are not taking offense to what I'm saying, but it is creating a breakthrough in them, that is wealth for me. That is straight wealth. And if. If that one man could. Could shift his life in a way that changes and impacts the 10, 15 brothers who are in his crowd, his circle, his crew. Dude, that is God's. That's my work. That is my purpose. The money is easy to make when you understand what impact and influence is. God will always make sure that he keeps his promises, which is the plans to prosper you. But you got to be in his will to gain that prospering.
- [25:05]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah. And you got to show up like you said. You know, I think a lot of people, they look at God and they think, if I just pray as hard as I can, you got to meet him halfway. You can't just pray to God and not put in the work. He's always going to put you in the position to win. But if you're not prepared for the win, it's going to just keep over and over, not going your way. Because he's saying, I got your back. Because I deal with this, too. I got Your back, but show up. Show up for me. Show up and do what you do. And I'll give you the words. I'll give you the feeling. I'll give you whatever you need to show up in that space, but show up. You know what I mean? And I think it's very important that you said. You just showed up. You said, run the play. Run the play. I'll be there. I'll be the biggest team player. I'm on your team. Let's do this guy.
- [25:47]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I'm in the. I am. I am out there in the field. If you tell me 15 up, cut in five, right? I'm at least in the middle. If the safety come and hit me, the linebacker, I'm taking the hit. But I'm gonna go for the catch because I trust you. But I love what you said. Real quick, JoJo. You said people think prayer is just works. Prayer is an action word. Faith is an action word. Love is an action word. God is an action word.
- [26:10]
Jojo Simmons
Yes.
- [26:11]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And so when you're saying you're praying, where's the action to that?
- [26:14]
Jojo Simmons
Right?
- [26:15]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And when you're saying that you trust and believe in God, where is the action to that?
- [26:19]
Jojo Simmons
Right? How could you trust if you're not walking in the path that he's trying to give you, Right? You trust me, but you're not showing up. You trust me, but you won't do the work. You trust me, but you won't even give me something for what I'm giving you. That's how God works.
- [26:33]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And you don't trust me enough to be in my will, right? If you woke up and your calendar was filled, you prayed for this. At some point, I brought it to you. I brought it to you my way. Because it's my will.
- [26:43]
Jojo Simmons
I love that.
- [26:44]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So are you in alignment with my will or no? Because it looks different from the idea you had.
- [26:50]
Jojo Simmons
Right?
- [26:50]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But God also says, my thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways. So if you know these principles, why are you surprised that the way that I did it didn't look like your way and the way that it manifested wasn't the way of your thoughts? You didn't think it, but you can't think the things that I think. My thoughts are higher than yours. So do we want your basement thoughts or do you want my mansion thoughts? Where are you at?
- [27:13]
Jojo Simmons
I agree.
- [27:14]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And which one are you choosing?
- [27:15]
Jojo Simmons
I always say sometimes we think in such a smaller frame, but God has a bigger picture, Right? Like you're thinking in a small frame, but God has the whole world in front of you, and he has a way bigger picture for you. But because it's not the way you thought it was supposed to happen, you're not going to go that way.
- [27:30]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And I want to say. And I love that you said, I want to say, you know, God says, because you were faithful over a few, I'll make you ruler over many.
- [27:38]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So many people are in this few space or few season where they're like, this is it. This is all. I work my ass off. I pray for more. And God's like, but you ain't even faithful over the vineyards I gave you that you didn't grow.
- [27:54]
Jojo Simmons
Right?
- [27:55]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Right. I'm giving you houses you didn't build. Yeah, they're small. But you're not faithful over the small apartment, the little orange tree I gave you. You cursed that. You cursed the apartment. But you praying for a mansion.
- [28:09]
Jojo Simmons
I tell my wife this all the time. I said, you know, keep what we have now clean and nice because that shows appreciation and gratefulness that, like you said, we could not have this, but we do. And in order for us to get the bigger mansion, let's appreciate and love what we have now.
- [28:25]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Oh, and God will do it. I was in a. I called off my wedding. I went and got a high rise in downtown la, and it was beautiful, but it was a lot smaller than what me and my fiance at the time we're living in. And I went to purchase a home. And now God has spoiled me, and I was so used to having my way. I said, God, I want this home, but the home that I really want costs more than I can afford at this moment. So I'm a settle for this home, right? And I said, but I want a pool in the backyard, and I want a gated house, but I'll settle for a gated community, and I'll settle for a pool that I'll just build. Now I'm thinking that I'm bargaining with God. I'm like, God, if you can, I'm cool with it. You know, I'll settle. I want to be grateful for whatever you give me. Got into escrow. We're about 15 days to closing. House falls out of escrow.
- [29:09]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [29:09]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Boy, when I tell you I was so mad at God, Jojo, let me tell you. Whew. I had to pray to God to talk to God, because I had some choice thoughts. I was like, God, like, why? Why? I've been obedient. I called off a wedding in a sense of being obedient. I Could have stayed and let this man take, continue because I was a kept woman to take full care of me. But my heart is not built like that. I'm not postured like that. I caught off a wedding to go take care of myself. Me being obedient, you gonna take away the house that I wanted. I was mad for about eight months. Long story short, God goes, he kept saying, but that wasn't the house that you prayed for. But it was. I wanted a house. He said, but that wasn't what you asked me for. And the Bible says, no request returns void. And I'm still mad. So realtors called me, Natasha Naki, who are my realtors now? And they're like, they did a cold call, straight cold call. Hi everyone. To sell a home. Are you ready to buy? I said, not really. I have an attitude, Joe. I'm like, not really. And I just lay down and you know what? I'm not sending over documents. And we better go state because I'm mad at everybody that has to do with a house. Now, God is the main one, but everybody else included are involved in selling house. So long story short, we go look at a few houses, we get to a particular house. Now before that, they're putting in offers and I am micromanaging, telling them if the house is, let's just say, 800,000 put in, 750. And my realtors are like, we're not going to get it at 750. Put it in at that amount. This last house, after God had another conversation. God be having to talk to me, you see, he said, listen, woman, I sent you these realtors. If you don't have to trust them, your job is to trust me. Fall back, let them do their job. So again, I roll my eyes at God again and we get to this house and I say, tasha, put in the offer. She goes, how much? I go, whatever you say. She's like, hold on, are you sure? Whatever amount. I said, tasha, put it in. She goes, but it's going to be like 100k over asking price. Put it in, put it in. And I told God, I trust you. Run the play, man. They accepted our offer. The people called and they said they love their home. Now. They're kind of iffy. If they want to sell, it was about 10:00. I said, Tasha, if they don't sign by 10:30, 10:45, tell them screw them, pull out. So she says, doc, are you sure? Absolutely. Because see, I'm in the backfield now. I'm waiting for a Full pass that God has promised me if I trust him. So I ain't got no time to be out in this backfield when I see a linebacker. I got old school Palomau out here, safety, okay? I got Ray Lewis, the linebacker out here about to smash me. I got to catch something, right? Okay. And I ain't looking for no PI from the office. We gotta get this. So she signed off. We get it, Jojo. When I tell you this is the house I'm in. Now, the house has double gates to drive through. The house is gated, not the community. And I say this from a place of humility, of teaching how trusting God and God's ways are not yours. And when you pray for something, it's going to come, but it's going to look different, but it's going to be better. Not only does the house. Is it bigger than the house we. We applied for a fellow to escrow for. It has a pool. So I didn't have to build my pool. It's not two hours away. It's in Los Angeles. So I'm close to everything. Then I said, okay, God, this house is the first house was in the nice 700,000. This house is the multimillions. I said, God, God. He said, I've told you before, trust me. You talk too damn much. Trust me. You told me to run the play. Run. Your job is to run the. Run the route. I told you to run. You can't quarterback and catch at the same time. I'm the quarterback of this. You run the play, catch the ball. That's all. Why you micromanaging me as your qb, right? You supposed to be in the middle of the field.
- [32:54]
Jojo Simmons
Hit the field.
- [32:55]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
You so worried about me. I love this analogy, man. Stayed out in the backfield, boy, got through that pass, man. I caught that thing. I ran about 15 yards. It was end zone. And then when I got in it from trusting him, MTV deal came, another network deal came. Dr. Bryant Institute blew up. I said, God, he said, this is the fruits of the labor of your trust. Because labor isn't always planting right. Labor sometimes is just trusting. And he said, because your labor was trusting me. He goes the harvest of that. My mortgage has been on autopilot for the past four years. I've never written a check to the. To the mortgage company. It even inflated a little bit because of property taxes. I just called to XY because I'm a black Jew. I'm penny pension. I'm penny pension.
- [33:50]
Jojo Simmons
I do too.
- [33:51]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And I said, okay, no problem. He Allowed me to remodel parts on the house. Last thing, I went into the downstairs bathroom when we were doing the property view before getting the keys. My mom goes, shy come in here. I'm like, huh? There's an old heater in the downstairs bathroom. And she goes, look, it says Bryant on the heater. Not Brian and Company. I will send you a picture, Jojo. Not Brian and Company. Not Brian and Smith. Bryant, B, R, Y, A and C.
- [34:19]
Jojo Simmons
Ain't no way that was. That's God.
- [34:21]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I said, you know what? Give me my mother fucking keys. Give me my leg. I was like, where are my keys at? And I was like, when I say God will speak so loud, but you have to be in alignment, trusting him and he will speak. And then I looked and I said, God, this is like the Garden of Eden. It's like fruit trees and palm trees and everything. We're on over a half an acre in Los Angeles. That doesn't happen. That's Atlanta country. I was going for a run. A big old billboard said, my right hand to God, I can't make this up. It said, welcome to the Garden of Eden. I just stopped. I just stopped. And I'm a runner. I was on mile two, JoJo. I stopped. I said, God, listen. I said, God, you play too much, but you're playing. I love when he does that, though.
- [35:03]
Jojo Simmons
I love when he does that, because, you know, you're in the right space when he does that. You know, I love when he does that.
- [35:09]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And God will play with you. And then I looked up and I'm not playing. He said to me, he said, who's your daddy? I said, you know what? I said, I just want to run 115 up and five in again. I just want to run the route again.
- [35:21]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah, run the route. Keep running the route from that.
- [35:24]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
The last thing he said to me was, he said, I hope moving forward, I don't have to continue to do one more thing to prove to you that you can trust me. And when I heard him say that, I said, nah, never again. He said, have I shown you enough, loud enough to know that when I give you a step that you won't question it, you'll take it. I don't care how dark the room is, you'll take the step and you're trust me to be in the darkness, in the light. I said, you never ever have to prove to me again that I can trust you. So when I hit a stage of four people or 40,000, I'm in full trust in him. When I'm doing a podcast, whether it's you, Nick B. Simone, anything on my talk show, two talks, I am in full trust. I show up. He doesn't have to do anything else for me to say no. I know. My God, I know. He ain't no joke. And it's not the financial, tangible things. It's the spiritual way that he has spoken to me. But he had to get me into that space for me to be here so that I can be so vertical in him that I do not entertain the outside chatter that if it gets in, will sink the ship. Yeah, I can't do that.
- [36:37]
Jojo Simmons
I agree. The last few years, I've been. That's what I've been walking in, is trust. Even when things go wrong, I'm like, one man. For me, up. I'm mad. I'm rolling my eyes like you. But, okay, I'm trusting you. Like, that's kind of how I've just been living my life is, like, why I'm here right now, interviewing you and interviewing people in this space is because God told me to show up. He said, show up and be that man. Show up in Talk Up. Show up and speak through me. You know, let me speak through you, really, and just show up. I'll give you the words. And I'm answering. I have to. Every day. I have to, because I know the path that he wants for me is something I can't see right now, but I know it's a win in the end.
- [37:15]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And you have a wife and two beautiful kids that you're covering.
- [37:18]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [37:19]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
This is a part of covering them.
- [37:21]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [37:21]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Answering to your calling is a direct covering of them.
- [37:26]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [37:26]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And you're teaching your babies what it looks like.
- [37:29]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [37:29]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
How to do it.
- [37:30]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [37:31]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That's a father.
- [37:32]
Jojo Simmons
So I know we were speaking about Nick Cannon, and you said you love. You love Nick. I've met Nick a few times. A couple of years ago, great guy. He opened up about being diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. What was your take on his openness? And why do you think it's so significant for black men to have these conversations out loud? And what do we need to do to keep these conversations going?
- [37:53]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So I'm laughing because, you know, Nick opened up about Nick. You opened up about what? I already told you, baby. You know I love you, but I know I'm gonna go there with you. And when I first heard it, the first thing I did was I contacted Nick and I said, I am so proud of you. I love you. Thank you. Thank you. I said, I know it's not easy even for a person with. Especially for a person with narcissistic characteristics. Even if you don't have the disorder, you can still have the characteristics and not be diagnosed with it. But for a narcissistic person to say, you know what? Yeah, I need help, that is the biggest step in the first step they can take. So I said, nick, I'm proud of you. I love you, and thank you. And I not only text them that, but I also put it on my social media so everybody can see that I'm acknowledging that he's taken these steps. I think that's huge. It's huge for him, for his family, and it's huge for the community of men in general who are experiencing these things. And they feel alone, they feel alienated, and they don't know if help is going to be weaponized against them or if it's going to be something that actually helps them get to the victory of healing. Because a lot of men, especially black men, yalls vulnerability is weaponized not just in society, but with your partners. Your I need help is deemed weak. That's weaponized. And so it's like, how do I still be a man and say that I need help? Because to a lot of men that can't coexist, I need help, and I'm still a man can't coexist even though they do. I need help is so strong. I need help is such a man. Again, I need help is how you cover your family. Because while you're in your disease or you're in your trauma or in your pain, you're not covering them from a place of healthiness. You're covering them with parts of you that are trauma, traumatized and that bleeds onto everything you're covering. And so the best thing that Nick could have done was come out and say, hey, you know what? Yeah, what? You didn't say Nick. Well, you didn't say Doc was right. You could have added Doc was right.
- [40:05]
Jojo Simmons
Just Doc had. Allan is like sway. Like sway.
- [40:07]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Like sway. Like sway, right? But I do. I love and I honor him for doing it. I. I really do. But I'm not surprised because Nick is one of those guys where he will push back. And there's a lot of resistance in Nick. But genuinely, Nick wants to do better. And Nick is a father who has a lot of narcissistic, selfish ways. But one of them is not when it comes to his kids. Nick really wants to be better for himself, but ultimately for those babies he really does.
- [40:38]
Jojo Simmons
I love it.
- [40:38]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Yeah.
- [40:39]
Jojo Simmons
What needs to happen for the conversation to keep going like Nick's conversation, and black men really coming out, being vulnerable and speaking about their disorders or things that they feel they. That they've been diagnosed with now, you know. Cause, you know, like you said, it's a weakness for us to come out and be vulnerable. But what needs to happen for this to be more of a thing?
- [40:59]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
A couple things. One, I think platforms like yours, right? And young black men like yourself who are in a position of. And I'm just gonna say it, whether folks don't like it or not, have done the right thing. You have married your wife, you have your kids with your wife, and y'all have not had kumbaya, straight, peaceful relationship this whole time period. But you kept your commitment, which is, I'm gonna do what I said I was gonna do, regards to how I feel. And I'm gonna stay until the love comes back. I'm gonna comes back, and I'm gonna stay until the confusion is clarity. And even if the confusion doesn't turn to clarity, I'm just gonna stay. The one thing you guaranteed her I'm hoping it sounds like, is that you're not going nowhere.
- [41:41]
Jojo Simmons
I'm not.
- [41:42]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Right. And so we gotta have men who've done that come out and say, well, this is how it's done. But be real about the emotional rollercoaster that is involved in that. And the wise counsel that men like you, young and of all ages can do, especially black men, is not just speak about, oh, it's been these many years, and we have all these kids, and it's beautiful to have a black queen that supports me. No, no, let's talk about when the black queen couldn't support you. How did you get through that? Let's talk about how you stuck by her and you were disciplined enough to not cheat because she wasn't available emotionally, spiritually, or sexually. How did you do that? What was the discipline that you use for those seasons? Right. You don't have to teach folks how to take a trip to Bali. You don't have to treat. Teach folks how to have good love making. We doing that as a black community. If we ain't doing nothing, we spending money and having sex. That is the problem. How do we do the other things? Other thing is, we got to start to teach women of any race. I don't care what race you are, if you are going to be with a black man, you need to have the proper tools on how to facilitate love him and support him. And for the women who are going to stay with men in general, especially our Black men, who have already created infidelity, stop asking, how do you get the trust back? You don't.
- [42:55]
Jojo Simmons
You don't.
- [42:56]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
You have to learn how to love a man who has created infidelity. You have to learn to love a man who, you know, operated in adultery. Because loving that man is different than loving a man who has been wholesome and faithful. Because now you have to love this man who has been unfaithful to you while processing through your trauma that has been created. That's different. And we have to also teach women the balance of what is really toxic and what's dysfunctional.
- [43:25]
Jojo Simmons
Everybody loves that word.
- [43:26]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Everyone loves that word. And how much of this dysfunction and toxicity is actually normalcy in a relationship.
- [43:33]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [43:34]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Because the moment that we get into a disagreement and you hurt my feelings, and if I'm deeming my feelings being hurt as toxicity now, I want to leave.
- [43:43]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [43:44]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But is it toxicity or is it me not having the ability or the bandwidth to be a wife? Because a lot of women are wanting to be wives, but they're still operating in a girlfriend space. I have clients all day long who are in my session both as couples. I had one the other day, and she was saying she went to a concert, didn't call at 3am to let him know she was on her way home safe. He called at 3am and she went on to tell him, you know, I was at the concert. I had to put my phone up to go meet a certain person who's a celebrity. Mind you, her fiance at the time is a celebrity, too. And the phone had to be put up, and the guy got upset and said, well, you didn't call me to let me know you were making it home. And, you know, I kind of don't like the fact you put your phone up for this hour or so to go meet someone because there was no communication about it. She got mad and said, you ruined my night. I'm getting off the phone. And he's like, whoa. In that moment, I had to teach her. You're in session telling me that this man won't marry you. And it's been, I think it was 14 years and two kids in. But the way you're showing up when he's trying to cover you is not only like a girlfriend, it's almost like a side chick. So you want him to marry someone who is not yet in a wife's veiling, Right? Well, he's not Wrong for wanting to wait. He ain't left you. He's in therapy with you now. But you're not operating in a space of a wife.
- [45:12]
Jojo Simmons
He doesn't see it yet.
- [45:13]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Your husband called to cover you to say, did you make it home? But because he didn't support you putting your phone away for an hour to go meet a celebrity person to take photos with that ruined your night, instead of thanking him from trying to make sure you got home safe and thanking him for being vulnerable and feeling safe enough to express you that he didn't like that you were meeting another celebrity man taking photos with while your phone was up for an hour.
- [45:40]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [45:40]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
You can call it insecure. That's a man being vulnerable with you as a wife. We don't weaponize him and say, you ruined my whole night because you decide to express yourself about actions that I took. You could have a dialog with him, but it's 3am this man is checking to make sure you Write her. It's 3am he's covering you.
- [46:01]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [46:02]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But then you get on podcasts, women, Black women, and say, ain't no good men out here. And you're calling the niggh word men ain't covering us. Men ain't doing this. But if your norm has never been to be covered, and if your norm has never been with a man who knows how to care, provide, and protect, then that means that when that man does it, you are unable to identify a healthy norm.
- [46:26]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [46:26]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So let's not gaslight them and say what they're not doing. Let's checkmate ourself and see what we are not receptive to.
- [46:32]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [46:33]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That's the bigger problem. So we have to teach women how to say, you know what? If this is what this man feels, how do I submit to that? Because there shouldn't be two alphas in a relationship.
- [46:44]
Jojo Simmons
Can be.
- [46:45]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And there's not two men in a heterosexual relationship.
- [46:48]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [46:48]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And you can't let a man be a man. A man is going to be the man he is. And we don't make men men. We nurture and activate what's in y'all. So another. What I want to say, another theme or theory that I think needs to be deadened is women. We don't make men. Men come to us with who they are. We nurture and activate that in them, and we get an opportunity and we get a privilege to experience that man. Yeah, but we ain't making a man. Your mom already did that. And I get you after that. Whether that's the trauma you, the hybrid you, or the more healed you.
- [47:26]
Jojo Simmons
Well, I gotta agree, you know, my wife has showed me I'm more capable of things that I never knew I was capable of just by pushing me to say, you can do that, you can do this, you can do that, you can.
- [47:38]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And like you said, externalize what you were already internalizing.
- [47:43]
Jojo Simmons
Right? Exactly.
- [47:44]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That's beautiful.
- [47:45]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [47:45]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So shout out to her. What's her name?
- [47:47]
Jojo Simmons
Denise. Shout out to Tanise. Love you.
- [47:49]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Shout out to you, Yvonne.
- [47:51]
Jojo Simmons
So speaking about relationships, I want to speak about relationships as mirrors. So you've said before that relationships are mirrors. They show us parts of ourselves we might not want to face. Can you break that down for me?
- [48:02]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
100%? Great questions. You know what?
- [48:04]
Jojo Simmons
Shout out to Danica. She does my questions, but I do look at them and approve of them. I do love every question she comes out with. Shout out to Danica on 3 is 4 head of storytelling values. She's the best.
- [48:15]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Yes. Yes. Every relationship is a direct reflection of a moving part of you. So where people get confused at is every relationship isn't a direct reflection of every single part of you. Right. But I said in my book Mental Detox, if you spot it, you got it. That's it. You can't spot something that's foreign to you.
- [48:32]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [48:33]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
We see in others who we are, not who they are. So as I'm looking at you, I'm able to see a man, which I've already said, who'd done things right, a young man who had a lot of trauma and pain that he had to figure out. A young man who had to navigate through things, a young man who did not want to make the same mistakes that he's seen other people that he loved. He didn't judge, but he didn't want that same outcome.
- [48:52]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [48:53]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So you made a commitment to yourself, even if it was subconsciously, to not do those same things. That commitment to yourself is the commitment that your beautiful wife gets to enjoy because you don't commit to her. You commit to you. And she gets to experience the commitments to yourself as they externalize and project onto her. And so every relationship is a direct reflection of a moving part, meaning if you're with a partner who you deem to be narcissistic. Let's just use that word, it's a big trigger word, narcissistic, or have narcissistic traits, the parts in them that you see as being that way are the parts in you that you have to ask where at, even if it's Something small, which moving part of me can identify with that part of them that I don't like. If you find your partner to be extremely loving and caring, that's also a reflection of a loving and caring part in you.
- [49:43]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [49:43]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That you do embody. Maybe you're not externalizing it like they are. Right. But you do have it. And so our job. And this is why. This is why the Bible says that marriage is meant to bring two people closer to God. Well, if you're talking about being closer to God and God says that he's closer than your breath, that means if God's closer than your breath, then God is who? You.
- [50:05]
Jojo Simmons
You.
- [50:06]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And so if marriage is bringing you closer to God, that means it's bringing you closer to yourself. So, of course, God would be genius enough to put two people together that would give each other the direct reflection of two things. What they got to work on and the things they need to exemplify more that they really love that are working for themselves. This is why nothing is. Nothing should be personalized. My experience with you is just my experience of myself. And so I shouldn't personalize the things you do. I should want to be more intrigued by why do you do these things and how do you do them? Because learning that of you is teaching me of myself, gaining a sense of self and bringing me closer to who? God. The God in me, myself.
- [50:49]
Jojo Simmons
That's one thing one of my good pastor friends always tells me. He's like, man, you being married, you don't know how much more your blessings overflow when you have a union. He's like you said, when you're two, you become one when you become married. And it's very interesting that you said, what you go through, I go through what your trauma is. Essentially, I kind of pick it up, you know, and I'm looking kind of in the mirror. Have you seen. How have you seen this play out for people, maybe even in your own life? And how do relationships help us recognize our triggers and patterns?
- [51:19]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I love that. So triggers are just pain pockets, right? Yep. And we talked about pain pockets earlier. And so as much as we don't want to be triggered, the best way to identify your pain is to allow yourself to be in environments, not for long periods of times where you're losing your cool, but long enough to identify. Ooh, that triggers me. Ooh, that's still pain in that place. Oh, that's where I'm still traumatized at. Oh, cool. Let me take inventory of this. Is the trauma that came up today. This is what triggered me for today. This is what. And let me go ahead and do some either. Take that list. You should be in therapy. Should be a lifestyle, not a interventive measure. Take that list to your therapist and say, look, these are the triggers that I just identified. These are things that I know I need to work on. And also, if you're married or have a partner, bring it to your partner. The Bible says, love your partner by knowledge of them. And self love being an action word, self love is what I call the Superman, a superwoman effect. Self love is this. Look at me. Look at the good, the bad, the ugly. Look at my.
- [52:23]
Jojo Simmons
Look at all of it.
- [52:23]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Look at me. But this is the thing though, Jojo. People can't Superman to their partner and expect their partner to love them unconditionally if they don't love themselves unconditionally. Because in order for me to superwoman with you and show you all of my wounds, I have to have self love. I have to love myself enough to understand that I'm worthy and valuable enough for you to see my wounds, for you not to judge my wounds, and for you to help me process through my wounds.
- [52:50]
Jojo Simmons
You gotta be confident in your traumas and wounds for you to be open up.
- [52:53]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Self love is like, look, I'm broken, right? And I do know that I am deserving and worthy of you loving me through this. But if I don't feel that value within myself, then I mask those parts of me. When I mask those parts of me, I suppress those pieces of me. Suppression breeds depression.
- [53:12]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [53:13]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So now I'm in a relationship with this person and I'm suppressing those parts of me. Before you know it, what happens? I end up being depressed in a relationship with the man who's saying, but I'm faithful and I love you, right? But I'm here. I don't understand, what am I doing wrong? What's going on? She can't identify that I suppress the parts of me that I don't even love about myself. And because I don't love them, I didn't trust that you would love them.
- [53:40]
Jojo Simmons
Suppression could turn a depression period.
- [53:43]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And self love is loving yourself enough to be lovable from somebody else? People cannot love us past the level that we love ourselves. If I'm at a 5 and you love me at a 10, I'm only going to receive at a 5, right? And then if I come to you and say, you know, you're not loving me enough, you're not loving me enough, and I can't identify that. Hold on, baby. Listen, you are loving the hell out of me, but I'm at a 5 and you love me at a 10. That's the only way we can have a healthy interaction and conversation about you having the ability to love me and me having the inability or the disability to not receive your love. Then you can help me facilitate it. Now, I'm not gaslighting you saying you just don't know how to love me. No, no, no, baby. You don't know how to love yourself enough to teach this man or this woman how you need to be loved. Or I don't know how to be loved past the five. My trauma is eclipsing my ability to allow you to love me.
- [54:43]
Jojo Simmons
And how would. How would somebody find a way to love themselves? Or how can a partner, which I don't think it's possible. I think nobody can actually help you face your. How is it easier on somebody to love themselves, to be able to be at a 10, to accept love at a 10?
- [54:58]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I love that. I want two things you said that are so genius. A partner job and their responsibility and their way of helping you is facilitating and holding space for your healing.
- [55:08]
Jojo Simmons
Yes.
- [55:08]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That means I'm not neglecting or abandoning you. Emotionally, I'm holding space. I'm here. Physically here, emotionally here. I may not have the right answer, but I'm not leaving you. I'm here. That's all they can do. You can't do the work for your partner. Your partner has to do the work. Now, past the facilitating part, they have to be in therapy. They have to have a professional, a coach, someone who can identify this is what you're doing, and it's your trauma that's eclipsing you. Another couple I had in session a couple days ago, they were having an argument, and the guy says something she doesn't like, and so he leaves to go into the other room because he's trying to de. Escalate the argument. She goes into the other room and she says, I'm packing up, I'm leaving. She's pregnant at the time. I'm packing up and I'm leaving. I'm getting boxes. I just called, you know, a friend of mine, I'm leaving. And he goes, huh? Like, no one said that I wanted you to leave. You know, I'm trying to process through this thing. Well, she's in an uproar. She's like, I'm leaving. I already called, you know, my friends or my parents were leaving. He calls her friends and her parents and he says, that's not what I said. Like, I don't want her to leave. I want her here. And now they're in session telling me this story. Her. Her experience was. He asked me to leave. He wanted me to leave. He said I'd never said those words. Not once did I. And I answered, did he say those words. She said, no, he never said those words.
- [56:33]
Jojo Simmons
But she received them.
- [56:34]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That's how I took it. I said, let me explain to you what's going on. I said, her, she was having a trauma episode. See, we don't talk about trauma episodes. We talk about bipolar episodes, depressive episodes. Let's talk about trauma episodes. She was having a trauma episode. I said, what's going on? I explained to the young man, I said, her trauma was responding and it eclipsed her ability to hear you.
- [56:57]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [56:58]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So in that moment, no matter what you said, she was going to hear her trauma. So her trauma consumed her. And it was the louder voice and it totally drowned out everything you were saying. So in that moment, you can't win, baby, no matter what you did. But you did what was right. You stayed, you facilitated. You called her parents and her friends and said, I don't want her to leave. That's not what I said. But at some point, you have to know when to stop too. Because if not, her trauma will consume you and then it can trigger you to become trauma inflamed. Now we have two people who are in a trauma episode and all that becomes this hostility.
- [57:36]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [57:37]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Thank God his trauma didn't inflame. But when I explained that to her, I said, did you understand that she broke out in tears?
- [57:44]
Jojo Simmons
Broke out of tears because she felt it. It was real. It hit home.
- [57:47]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
She said, wow. He said, how do I facilitate when that happens? I said, there's a duality. She has to be able to gain an awareness. That says, wait a minute. Did he say with those words he wants me to leave? If their answer is no, she has to verbalize to you, baby, I'm having a trauma episode, so I'm gonna need a moment to self regulate. Remember, you can't do the work for her and keep on autopilot. Self talking to myself. That says, he never said he wanted you to leave. He never said, what am I doing right now? I'm reprogramming. She has to reprogram her trauma norm to a healthy norm that says, believe what he just said. Not with that hurt trauma. Abandoned little girl was told that she wasn't good enough, that this person doesn't want you. So the little girl started to speak to her in that trauma episode and said, he don't want you. Why would anybody want you? You ain't good enough. While he's saying, I love you, I want you. I want you to stay. How many of us have been in a trauma episode? Almost everybody who comes from a trauma background has been in a space where you're telling the person, you don't want me, or that's not what you said. And the person is saying over and over again, I never said that. I do love you. I do want you. I am here. I'm still here. This ain't your first time showing up without your screws. I'm still here. But you still are in your trauma episode because you don't feel lovable, you can't receive my love. And because you don't feel desirable, you don't believe I would want someone like you.
- [59:27]
Jojo Simmons
That's deep. I mean, that's super deep. Because, you know, even myself, I know. I deal with that. Even my own relationship, where it's like, there's moments where my wife will correct me in certain things. And I think my trauma answers because as a young age, I probably was told a lot that I wasn't right or I was doing something wrong or I wasn't correct. So I automatically think she's coming at me when she's, like, trying to, you know, remind me to do something for one of our children. And I'm like, but, you know, I do this every day. And I feel attacked because it's like, do you think I am not sufficient enough? Do you think I. But that's. I'm wrong for that, right?
- [59:57]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Guess who thinks they're not sufficient enough?
- [59:58]
Jojo Simmons
Me.
- [59:59]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Guess it's not good enough.
- [60:01]
Jojo Simmons
Me. Me. And that's why I said what you just said just truly helped me. Cause it's like. And I know that, right? And I've kind of started visiting that conversation with my wife. Like, I know that it's my trauma sometimes answering you, and I need to work on that, right? Because it's not then, thank God, that she's starting to understand. Like, okay. Like, yeah, you know, and sometimes her trauma answers and it happens. So you saying that is really deep for me because it really hits home for me in certain situations where I know as a kid, I deal with insecurities and traumas that I still carry today in my relationship or with my friendships, where it's like, you said something that triggered me because as a child, I'm still at that age. When it comes to certain things that come to me.
- [60:46]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And your trauma comes up and says, told you you weren't good enough.
- [60:49]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [60:49]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
She's only reminding you because she knows you can't do it.
- [60:52]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [60:52]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And you're like, hold up. And it's the husband. JoJo has left the conversation, and that little boy has stepped in and said.
- [61:00]
Jojo Simmons
Nah, this is what you meant.
- [61:01]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I'mma have a voice, right? I didn't have a voice when I was young. I'm a have a voice now because I know I can. I'm grown now. But the person speaking or representing you, I should say, is a little boring. You who has no space, and there's no room for a child in an adult relationship, that child will sabotage and ruin that relationship every single time without the intent to do so because it doesn't have the insight on how to be married to an adult.
- [61:26]
Jojo Simmons
She's in here cooking. Y'all. Y'all dropping truth bombs on me now, man. She's. You ain't here cooking, like, wow. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get into this next subject, and, you know, after that one, it's hard to top.
- [61:36]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And you gonna go home to your wife and say, baby, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
- [61:40]
Jojo Simmons
I am. I am. I'm sorry, Tanisha. She's right. I'm sorry. She's got the answers. Let's talk about attachment theory. It's a big topic that can help so many people. Can you explain the basics? What are the attachment styles and how do they affect the way we show up in our relationships as we speak about relationships?
- [61:55]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Yeah. So attachment styles are very important. Right? So you have. Attachment styles are pretty much formed as a child. They're learned behavior. And most folks who have experienced abandonment or neglect or are even a result of blended families, because although, again, parents who have multiple kids with multiple men or women. We understand that your intent was not to ruin your child. We understand your intent was not to abandon your child. We get that. But whether that was your intent or not, abandonment and neglect comes from that. That is a result of broken homes, broken families, and blended families. That's just what it is, Right? You and I are a product of that.
- [62:35]
Jojo Simmons
Yes.
- [62:35]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And so what happens is, as kids, when you are experiencing brokenness, you will develop, let's just say, you know, anxious anxiety. Right. Which is an attachment that's huge for a lot of folks in our communities. I'm picking that one because folks in the black community happen to experience a lot of the anxious attachment where I am so afraid to be alone that I'm going to attach to anything. And at the even thought of that anything moving or detaching or unplugging from me, I'm going to lose my flip.
- [63:11]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [63:12]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Lose my flip just means anxiety starts to overwhelm me.
- [63:15]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [63:15]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And the only way that I regulate the anxiety is if I what? Plug into something or someone else. But watch this. Unplug. Anxiety's up. Hold on. Plug in. Anxiety regulates. So what does that mean? That explains why people can go and have multiple kids by multiple people. Because what's happening is they're never plugging into the person. They're plugging into the regulation of their anxiety, the regulation of their abandonment, the regulation of their lack of self love, the regulation of, I never had no one to begin with, so now that I have somebody, I'm gonna plug into what this is giving me and not the person who I'm with. So I can easily go have a baby with you and take what I need, which is my idea, and clothe another man with it.
- [64:05]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [64:06]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Because remember, I'm never with the true, authentic authenticity of the person I'm with another idea of what I need.
- [64:13]
Jojo Simmons
Right.
- [64:14]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Codependency. So I'm going to take what I need for my attachment anxiety to be regulated and I'm just going to clothe it with everyone I come in contact with. Which means I never plug into any of these people. So that means I never have to unplug to move on anyways. Because, see, unplugging is hard.
- [64:30]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [64:30]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So people who grieve are. Who are going through these breakup seasons, who we say, you can't just move on. No. Because those per. Those people actually knew the real essence of loving the person, not their idea. And so how did I learn this? I learned it from being 12 years of school and becoming a doctor. But I learned it best from experience. I remember leaving someone and I said, oh, wow. Well, when I left, I took my experience and I took my idea of them. So I can go just take this idea and this experience and go put it in clothing on anybody else. Then I heard myself say that, and I was like, oh, shit, hold on. Was I plugging into the person or my idea of them? And I was young, in my 20s, and I said, like, I'm taking my idea and my idea is formed from what. What I need to survive. So as a little girl who grew up to be an abandoned young woman, I created this perfect survival ideology. And I said, oh, if anyone I get with can have this, I Won't feel abandoned. If anyone I get with can have this, I won't feel neglected. So, hi, nice to meet you, John. Cool. Clothe John with this, John becomes my idea. And the moments that John peeks out to show me who he really is, which is not my idea. Oh, I'll just emasculate him and tell him you ain't shit because you're not this. I gaslight him. That's not how I need to be loved. You're trying to leave me when you do this, this and that. I don't like it. So then guess what? John says, dude, I love you. I'm not leaving. But you are controlling. Hold on. But you're controlling me. And I haven't cheated on you, I haven't lied, I haven't done anything. And I've been with you for five, six years. I've done nothing to make you feel you have to control. I said. No, you're right. I'm not controlling you.
- [66:28]
Jojo Simmons
You're controlling your idea.
- [66:30]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I'm controlling my idea of you. And if I can control my idea of you, John, I can control my triggers and my emotions and my abandonment. But then how long can John stay in captive? How long can John stay in prison to my trauma? How long? He can't. There's an expiration date to that.
- [66:50]
Jojo Simmons
There's always an expiration.
- [66:51]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
At some point, John can only love me so much until he either dissipates into his own depression. And even at that point, once he's depressed, he doesn't have anything to facilitate me. He's on E. Or he says, wait, I gotta choose to love her or myself. And if you choose to love himself, he can't be in that unhealthy trauma ties, trauma bonding relationship. So then what happens? You learn to love yourself enough to say okay. Instead of creating an idea that helps me regulate my pain. Am I trauma? Hold on. Let me create no idea. And let me just say, check this out. Listen, I'm good, but I'm pretty fucked up in a lot of ways. And I don't want to keep you in captive or me. So let me show you all this.
- [67:39]
Jojo Simmons
Stuff, get it over with now.
- [67:40]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Do you think you could facilitate it? And although I'm working on it, there's going to be times where this little abandoned little girl, she inflames and she starts to clench really hard. And all that means is that she's really scared. She's scared out of her little mind. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna work on her and regulate her in our relationship. But I need you to help me, the woman, facilitate the woman, as I facilitate the little girl in me.
- [68:06]
Jojo Simmons
So would you say that's the most. The most important practical tool to kind of break those unhealthy patterns is opening up and just saying, take me as I am, understand who me as I am, and then you guys can kind of have. Not kind of have you got. You can have a healthier relationship. I think if you probably are more vulnerable, you would say that's the most practical tool is to just open up.
- [68:27]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
How can I love you unconditionally if you're not showing me your conditions?
- [68:32]
Jojo Simmons
How that's deep.
- [68:34]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
How then are you going to gaslight me and say, you supposed to love me unconditionally? And then I say, well, baby, there's a lot of conditions that you ain't showing me because it's showing up in your behavior. But I'm not a therapist or a psychologist, so I can't cold read your behavior. Can you just tell me what behavior that trauma is associated to? So then maybe I can have compassion for you when you do that. And then maybe you and I can go to therapy and the therapist can give me tools on how do I hold space for you when you do that? Does he need me to just give him space for an hour or a day? Does he need me to just sit with him and be silent? Does he need me to say, baby, I love you? I'm not going over does any reassurance. What does he need from me as a woman? What do I need from you as a man to facilitate when I'm in my trauma episode? We all go there, right? We're not robots. We're human. And so, yes, the best way is to first have sense of self. What are your moving parts? All of them. Learn to love all of those is the second step. And love yourself enough to know you're worthy of someone else loving you through it. So that you show them everything, even if you're afraid. And we're not saying you show someone everything on the date number two or date number three. Because people will hear this and be like, you know, the folks who are deeply in their trauma who can't hear anything but negativity, will say, oh, doc, are you saying, tell them on date number one? That's crazy. What I'm saying is you should have your own rubric as to when you decide, I want to choose this person to be committed to is when you say, before I choose them. Let me see if they can facilitate me because if they don't have the bandwidth, y'all are both in trouble. If they are a pint and you are a gallon, y'all are not equally yoked. It will not work no matter what you do. My ex fiance, we're at dinner and he was saying he wanted to be in a relationship with me before proposing. And I said, yeah, I would love to, but let me explain to you. I am an abandoned little girl who is now an abandoned woman. And that abandonment little girl is going to show up in our relationship from time to time. Now, I got her in check because I've done a lot of work, but there's still some times where she'll end up in this home or end up in this relationship. And she may start to blame you for things that didn't happen. She may not hear you when you're saying things like, you love me, because that little girl may not feel lovable in that moment. And let me say this, she's learned how to survive so well. She learned how to be in the wilderness so good that there's probably gonna be nothing at all you can say to take this little girl from the wilderness to the promised land. So you gonna have to love on me and let me handle her. Can you do it? He says, sign me up.
- [71:14]
Jojo Simmons
I love it, though.
- [71:14]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But if he would have said, ooh, that's a bit much, I would have not been mad at that man. I would have respected him for knowing his bandwidth and saved both of us the heartache and the confusion of saying, what do we do now, Jojo? That we're at this crossroads. What do I do?
- [71:27]
Jojo Simmons
Better not to waste time or waste anybody's time and just bring it all in the forefront so you know who you at and what you have to deal with.
- [71:35]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And the longer you stay, the more expensive it is to leave. We ain't talking about money, fellas. We're talking about emotionally, mentally, physically. The longer you stay, the more expensive it is for you to leave and rebuild.
- [71:47]
Jojo Simmons
I love it. They're telling me, wrap up pretty soon because you've been ahead cooking, but I do want to finish off talking about some of your projects before we wrap up. I see your show, Truth Talks, is it called. Can you tell us about it? What's the mission behind it, and what do you hope the viewers take away from it?
- [72:03]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Love it. True Talks is alongside my co hosts, Ryan Cameron, Willie Moe Jr. And Bri Renee. We are pretty much a global news with a very provocative, unapologetic opinion, which Is our opinion the black opinion and perspective. Love it. It's on Fox, So we filmed 65 episodes. We are now on a hiatus before we film. Excuse me, Season two. But it is. It's raw. It's real. I love it. I love Stephen A. Some people love Stephen A. Some people dislike Stephen A. He's from Queens.
- [72:35]
Jojo Simmons
He grew up across the street from my mother.
- [72:38]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
You know, Stephen A. Is a hall of famer journalist. And when they compare me to being the female Stephen A on that show, baby. And I say, you know what? Thank you.
- [72:48]
Jojo Simmons
You like it? It's a complete compliment.
- [72:50]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And so if you want to see a little bit of Dr. B. Stephen A. True talks. Is it.
- [72:54]
Jojo Simmons
I love it. What motivates you to keep showing up and being vulnerable, especially when it comes to having uncomfortable conversations and facing criticism?
- [73:01]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Self love, you know, I don't need people to like her or dislike me because every day I love myself.
- [73:07]
Jojo Simmons
Because you like you. You love me.
- [73:09]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I don't just only like my. I love that you said it. It's important that you not only just love yourself, but you like yourself. I love myself and I like myself. That was something that I have to say. Through all my trauma, I've always had right from my parents who raised me. My grandmother, Mariah, she. She loved the shit out of me. I mean, when I say I don't. Unconditional love. I mean, she loved me through my trauma. I gave her hell. Jojo. Being a little girl who was abandoned, seriously a product of a mama who was doing, you know, who was in her addiction. And there was never a time where I felt I was too much for my grandmother. There was never a time where I felt like I was too broken, I was too confused.
- [73:45]
Jojo Simmons
She always made you feel loved.
- [73:46]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
I was too angry. I mean, I was getting kicked out of school districts because of my pain. And she would roll up with me one day, she rolled up and she seen that I had sweats on. I usually dress up every day. Cute. And I had sweats on. This one day, she rolled up to Banning High School. And I'll never forget this, she looked at me and she said, baby, you want momma to go in there with you? And I said, now, I got this. She said, okay, but if you change your mind, I'm right here. And that type of support that says, you know, I love you no matter who you being, how you being, how you showing up. Even after she whipped my ass and during the ass whoopings, I still felt loved parents, that type of love, it rolls over into adulthood. So at 42, I still carry that backbone and that love that she gave me. But self love and knowing that because she loved me through everything, my ugliness, my trauma, it has allowed me to know that I'm good enough for you, for him, for it, for whoever to love me in my brokenness. And that single bit of self love will change the trajectory of people's lives and relationships.
- [74:50]
Jojo Simmons
I agree. I mean, for years I fought with self love, for years I let everybody else put an idea of who I was to them, whether that be the consumer or just people talking. And you know, over the few years I've learned how to really, truly just like myself and love myself. And I've showed up as a better husband, a better father, a better brother, a better son, a better man. Just realizing like it all stems from me looking in the mirror and say, do you like yourself? Do you love yourself? Because you won't spew out any positivity if you don't like yourself. Because anytime somebody tries to rock your boat, you're going to sink because you don't love yourself.
- [75:24]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Because they rocking what's already in you, right? If I, if you already have this self hate and I'm rocking, I hate you. I don't like you. All I'm doing is rocking a boat that's already dismantled, right? But if you like and love yourself and I get to throw in some water in there, it's just a puddle that you're like that. We ain't got cracks and crevices in this boat, right?
- [75:42]
Jojo Simmons
That's what I always say.
- [75:43]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
There's no cracks and crevices in here.
- [75:45]
Jojo Simmons
Like I use the example all the time. Like is if you come out in like the outfit that you like and somebody says they don't like it and automatically you don't like it anymore is because you didn't like the outfit in the first place to begin with, right? But if you like the outfit, nothing anybody can tell you is going to tell you your outfit is ugly, right? And that's the same thing I'm looking at it as. So we're wrapping up, we got some final reflections. I wanted to, you know, what's one thing you would say to someone listening right now who feels stuck or overwhelmed on their mental health journey? Where can they start?
- [76:13]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
First start with being honest with yourself, right? And not judging yourself. You can't build up and tear down at the same time. They can't coexist. So really quick is just listen, man, I really love the way I communicate I really love the way I take care of my parents. I really love the friend I am. But I don't like the way I show up in my romantic relationships. Right? Take inventory. Write that stuff down. You can burn it after. Nobody has to see it. But you gotta be in the essence of truth. I always say at the beginning of all my sessions, all my clients will know. I say, listen, we can't heal a lie. We can only heal the truth. So whatever you bring, I'm a process. But we can't heal a lie. So bring what you want to be able to really use for you. So y'all be real with yourself. Second to that, listen, I've been going to therapy since I was a freshman in college. Therapy, life coaching a mental health professional has to be a freaking lifestyle. This is not something you come to when your marriage is failing. We can't help your marriage unfail. We could only help you process through whatever you've already built.
- [77:15]
Jojo Simmons
Right?
- [77:15]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
We give you like God does. You ask God for a house, a lot of times he'll give you wooden nails and a hammer. And then we get mad. We're like, but God gave you everything to build, baby. Build, build, build. You want a chair? He going to give you the components to build that build. And you can ask him how, but just like a, a, a hammer. He can give you a hammer to build. And what can we do with it, Jojo? We can destroy, right? So we have to make sure the tools that we have, which we're already perfectly equipped by God, we use to identify the things we love and don't love. And then after that, I need you to work on sharing with the people you trust, people you trust, the things that you don't love about yourself so you can see them love you through it. Which would teach you then how to love yourself through it.
- [77:57]
Jojo Simmons
Finally. Can we get some book recommendations? I love to read a good book. Can you give us some good books that someone can really use for their mental health and to really help shift their perspective and help them with their healing process? Are there any books that you've read or that you read or that you think the viewers should be reading to help them with their healing process?
- [78:14]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Yeah. Well, the first book I'm gonna say, of course, is my book Mental Detox. And you can get on Amazon, you can just Google it. Mental detox by Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. It comes up number one. It's been bestseller since 2014, since I've wrote it. And then with all of the new, you know, viralness going on. It has become a bestseller again. So first book. The second book, though, that was my favorite book before my book that inspired me to write my book is everyone. Every human being should read this book at least one time. It's As a Man Thinketh by James Allen. Every single person needs to read that book.
- [78:47]
Jojo Simmons
Omg, Write that down, y'all.
- [78:49]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
James Allen, As a Man Thinketh. The other one is the untethered soul. Now, these books are all. These are all deep books about sense of self, about healing. And then the Alchemist. Alchemist is another one. The last book. But it's definitely not last. I probably should have put it before my book. And I don't say this from a perspective of. Of being religious at all, but the Bible, that book goes before mental detox, just so you know. I heard you, God. I heard you.
- [79:17]
Jojo Simmons
The most important book out there.
- [79:19]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
God's like, excuse me. I'm like, I got you.
- [79:22]
Jojo Simmons
How does always first. Yeah.
- [79:23]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And it's not to read it to shun yourself. The Bible is just a book full of principles.
- [79:29]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [79:29]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
That tell you exactly how to unlock what you're praying for.
- [79:32]
Jojo Simmons
Yes.
- [79:32]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
God tells you these principles. He says it's better to be obedient than sacrifice. He's just saying be obedient to the things you're committing to. Right. He tells you the. The story about Peter. When Peter's on the boat trying to fish, and he ain't got no fish, and he's mad at everybody. And Jesus gets on the boat and says, bro, take your net nets and throw it on the other side. And Peter just corrects him and says, I only have one net, first of all. And you calling it plural. And I've been out here all night. You ain't a fisher. Jesus don't tell me how to fish. And quickly. You know, I think. I think Jesus told Peter this. Cause he told me this. He said, that's your problem. You talk too much. Just take the damn net and throw on the other side. And Peter, with an attitude, which we all do, took his net and said, threw it on the other side. And I want y'all to see this. He took his net, threw it on the other side. All he did was what? Shift his perception. He didn't get a new boat. He didn't get a new net. He didn't get a new fishing pole. He didn't even move locations. All he did was shift his perception. When he threw his net, it became nets. And his nets broke from the abundance of fish that were there. And to Go forward. When he looked back, Jesus was gone. Oh. So when Peter took his little boat and went to shore, Jesus hadn't left him. Jesus was on shore cooking. Peter, Emil. And he said, because you were obedient. Key word, obedient. This is just principles. I'm rapping. I see y'all. Because you were obedient, he said, I will make you fishermen of men. You'll never have to fish again. This is a powerful. This is just a story in the Bible. That's all the principle is talking about is obedience.
- [81:03]
Jojo Simmons
Yes.
- [81:03]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And to get out of your own way and not let your limited thinking. I only have one net and there's no fish here. Is teaching us a principle of no. Everything is working for your good.
- [81:15]
Jojo Simmons
And you have everything you need.
- [81:17]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Calleth you have everything you need.
- [81:18]
Jojo Simmons
Everything you need. God already gave you everything you need.
- [81:21]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
These are principles that the Good Book teaches you. It's not about being religious. It's about, all right, teaching me these principles. How do I be obedient? You say you order my steps. You say, you know the plans you have for me. Then it says really quick, what reports will you believe? The Bible even says that there's good reports. God already tells you from the jump that there's gonna be so many different reports and thoughts, you believe the ones you want to manifest. And it says, think only on the thoughts that are good, positive, praiseworthy. So I know we gotta rap. I don't wanna take y'all to church again, but I'm in church. The Bible has principles that even tells you how to think only on things that are praiseworthy. Meaning if you wouldn't pray for it, why you thinking it? Because every thought and every word is a prayer. Praying isn't just at church or on your knees. Every time you're thinking is a prayer. Every time you're speaking, you're praying.
- [82:10]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah.
- [82:11]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
So if you wouldn't pray for it, why are we talking about it? Jojo, if you wouldn't pray for it, why are you thinking about it in your space of solitude? Those are principles, literally. So everything I'm thinking about, if it's not within what God already told me, positive, praiseworthy. I shift out of it so quick. I shift out of it and life just opens up for you. It blossoms quickly. And it says be. Because a lot of people got this worriness out there, this, this, this fear based mindset. One of my favorites. It says, be anxious for nothing and make your request. Be known to God, because no request returns void. So in your anxiousness you're also supposed to not be anxious. You're supposed to be so confident in the things that you want in your marriage. And how am I going to get there? But then it says, don't despise the days of small beginnings. You see, all of the principles are there. If you're in the small beginnings, it's like, don't despise it. Don't get weary and well doing, but don't get anxious about it. Make your request, Sit back, run the play. Think on the thoughts that are praiseworthy. Be obedient. Don't have limited thinking. Know that you have everything you need. These are all principles in the good book, the Bible.
- [83:16]
Jojo Simmons
Agreed. Your tongue is a powerful tool in what you think you attract. We might have to add pastor to your. To your moniker. Pastor Doctor. You know what's funny, Cheyenne Bryant? Cause you took me to church and this.
- [83:27]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
But I literally just got. I already have a doctorate academically in counseling psychology, but I just got an honorary doctorate and I cannot make this up from a seminary school in ministry.
- [83:37]
Jojo Simmons
Wow.
- [83:37]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
And I listen, I've been telling God, don't you give me that pastor nothing, because I'm going to curse and I'm going to be me. But when the ministry seminary school wanted to honor me for all of my work in the community that comes from the word and shifting right and being who I am and using being a vessel for God, I was like, I looked at God and he said, who's your daddy? I say you. And he said, your will, Armand. I say your will. Lord have mercy. I accept. I accept. So, yeah, just got a doctorate in congratulations in seminary ministry.
- [84:11]
Jojo Simmons
I really do appreciate you coming out talking to me. This was literally a great conversation. This is exactly what I envisioned, sitting down with you speaking about mental health, speaking about trauma, speaking about triggers, speaking about everything we spoke about. And, you know, I watch all your interviews as much as I can, and I think that, you know, I'll be sitting there like, yeah, she's talking that shit, you know.
- [84:31]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
Thank you.
- [84:32]
Jojo Simmons
So I appreciate you coming out and talking to me on the For Good podcast. And, you know, you got a friend in me, Dr. Brian.
- [84:37]
Dr. Cheyenne Bryant
You know, this just went full circle, y'all. I was just watching him on TV, loving my little JoJo, and now he's saying he's watching me. I'm so honored that you even, you know, watch me to even resonate and hear the tools and you were able to even apply them and, and even understand them. So thank you for having me for having this platform and I just want you to commit to, to just never stop. And you answered a calling that you got to continue to stand up and you got to stand on that you have to.
- [85:07]
Jojo Simmons
Thank you for, for, for sitting here, everybody. I appreciate all the viewers for watching. This is the For Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad, where we're measured on what we do and not what we have. Once again, Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. Appreciate you all. Peace.