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For Good
The Fight for Representation in Hollywood: Natasha Ward-Shaw on Colorism, Confidence, and Change
00:39:51
Hollywood has long struggled with representation — and Natasha Ward Shaw has spent more than 20 years fighting to change that. The casting director, producer, and acting coach sits down with Joseph “JoJo” Simmons on The For Good Podcast for a...
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- [00:00]
Jeff Bridges
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [00:02]
Dana
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [00:05]
Jeff Bridges
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So Dana.
- [00:12]
Dana
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [00:24]
Jeff Bridges
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [00:31]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Nice.
- [00:32]
Dana
Je free.
- [00:32]
Jojo Simmons
You heard them.
- [00:33]
Jeff Bridges
T mobile is the best place to.
- [00:35]
Jojo Simmons
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.
- [00:40]
Jeff Bridges
So what are we having for lunch?
- [00:42]
Dana
Dude, my work here is done.
- [00:44]
Commercial Announcer
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- [01:01]
Natasha Ward Shaw
The headshots for his film and all the characters he already had, they were all white. And I was like, what you doing? I need some. Where's the blackness? So I came over, changed the lead to a black girl. Not only did I make the lead girl, the love interest, the lead, the whole movie about her, I was able to add another supporting role to be blocked. He was just like, I never saw it that way. I didn't understand. And I was like, but you have to, you have to pay attention to these things. Representation matters. There's a lot of places where the worlds are just not all white. They don't think they're going to make their money back with a black face as the lead. We are especially black females. We are the strongest force out there, you know, and without us, stuff is going to crumble.
- [01:51]
Jojo Simmons
What's good, everybody? It's your guy, Jojo Simmons. And welcome to the 4Good podcast where we focus on the good, the never, the bad. Where we're measured by what we do, not what we have. Today on For Good, we're sitting down with Natasha Ward Shaw, a casting director, producer and acting coach who has built her career on more than just finding talent. She's become a powerful voice for inclusion in Hollywood, especially when it comes to creating space for dark skinned women to shine and lead roles through her work on projects that challenge the Status quo. Natasha has pushed back against colorism and open doors for stories that reflect the full beauty, depth, and complexity of black women. In this conversation, we'll talk about her journey, the realities of representation, and the future of inclusive storytelling and entertainment. Let's get into it, everybody. Natasha, I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much. I know that you're very busy being a superhero in the Hollywood space, but you gave us some time, so thank you for coming on the four Good podcast.
- [02:49]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Oh, man, I appreciate you so much. This is such an honor, you know, to be able to speak about something that I know and love so well. I'm 21 years in the game, so it's always great when I can be a light and help to shine on everything that's happening right now.
- [03:07]
Jojo Simmons
Wow. So 21 years in the game. Obviously, I know who you are. My team over here knows who you are. But for those who may not know yet, can you introduce yourself and show what led you to the world of film?
- [03:17]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Yeah. So 21 years ago, I landed in Los Angeles. I was going to school, culinary arts down in Miami, and I came here to visit the first chance, you know, the break we had. The first Christmas break. I came out, my sister was here, and she was like, hey, instead of hanging out with me all day, why don't you go intern with one of my friends who's casting Fat Albert? And I was like, well, sure. Like, all right. I better. I'd rather go do that than just chill on the couch. So I interned. I loved it. It was Chemin Bernard, Monica Swan, both veterans in the game, and they taught me everything. I mean, everything. And they were two separate casting directors who had their own way of doing things. So I learned so much at a. In a very short amount of time and very quickly, and. But I wanted to learn, and so they saw that, and so they taught me everything. And then I just kind of grew from there. The assistant had quit Sunday night when I was interning, and when I came in on Monday morning, they offered me her job. And so that's how I literally got into. So then I went from a casting intern in four weeks to an assistant and then associate, and then it just goes up from there, and then casting director, then consultant, where I consult with different studios and production companies and, you know, help them find the diverse, you know, names and faces that they're looking for. And then I branched out into producing, and that's all types of producing, from executive producing and finding the money and all of that good stuff to Actual producing on set every day, you know, and co producing, just all kind of. Just everything that's in casting, then producing, and then coaching. And I've been coaching actors for a while. I just got back on Sunday. I was in Atlanta coaching an actor on an audition. So I'm committed. You know, I'll hop on a plane, get over there to you. I want to see you win. And so whatever I can do for that, I do.
- [05:20]
Jojo Simmons
I love that. I love that your first started on Fat Albert, obviously, something that we all know, a name that we're all familiar with. So that was really cool to understand that that's where it all started for you, and you took it and ran with it. And, you know, I heard you talking about you just wanted to learn. You got into the space, you just wanted to learn. And, you know, you've worn so many hats in the industry. Casting director, producer, acting coach. Which role feels the most natural to you? And, you know, how do they all connect?
- [05:48]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Yeah. Well, feels natural is whatever I happen to be doing that day. Because, like, when I'm coaching an actor, I can see, because I've been casting so long, I know what the producer's looking for. I know what the writer's looking for or that special note the writer wrote in there. He wants that to be punched up. I can see that. As soon as I get those sides, I mean, it just jumps off the page. And so I'm able to cultivate that with whatever talent I'm with and build them to that. And producing feels natural because I like being a boss. You know, I like being in control. And there I'm able to call the shots, put out fires. That excites me to, you know, to be able to, you know, start off in a. In the trenches, but then come out shining and then have a beautiful project at the end. And then casting, you know, like I said, I've been doing it for 21 years, literally when I got off the plane. So it just comes natural. It's just fluid. So I'm safe and comfortable in all of these spaces because I know that I'm, you know, and putting God first, I think, is really what shines. And he leads me, orders my steps. Let me tell you, you know, from.
- [06:56]
Jojo Simmons
What I hear, and I feel like I'm the same way. Like, you're confident in your value. You're confident in what, you know, you bring to the table, no matter what, no matter the job that that's put in front of you.
- [07:04]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Right.
- [07:04]
Jojo Simmons
And I love that you said, you know, all of them come natural, depending on the day that I'm doing what needs to be done. And that's the same for me. A lot of you ask, well, what come. What do you like the most? Do you like interviewing people? Do you like rapping? Do you like reality tv? Do you like being a boss of the companies you have? Which one do you like most? Do you like the business side of you? Do you like the, you know, the personality side? And I'm like, whatever I need to get done that day, I'mma do because it all comes naturally to me because I enjoy doing all those things, you know, I don't believe that you can enjoy doing one thing. I believe you can enjoy doing many things, especially in one space. Right? So, yes, like you, I love putting out fires. I love problem solving. But I also like being the person that's, like, in front of the camera. If you need me to go talk to the people and go be the speaker, or, you know, if you need me to make some music or you need me to go wherever you need to place me, I know that that day feels most comfortable no matter. No matter what the job is, because I'm confident whenever I attack that task, you know, so, you know, I relate to a lot of what you just said is like, it doesn't matter what I'm doing as long as I'm doing, you know, as long as I'm doing and I'm part of it. Yeah.
- [08:07]
Natasha Ward Shaw
And I love it. And that confidence, that confidence goes a long way. You know, I don't want to be in front of the camera, though. I'll take that off. I'll leave that for you.
- [08:16]
Jojo Simmons
You know, I tell myself, you know, I'm done, I'm done. I'm done being in front of the camera. And everybody always tells me, well, you're too good at it, so you got to keep being in front of the camera. I'll take what God gives me, you know, never, never take. I never deny any gifts that God wants to give me, you know, that's what I do know. So when you're casting a project, what do you look for beyond the script or resume? What makes someone stand out to you?
- [08:37]
Natasha Ward Shaw
You know, it varies, of course, but we do look for that confidence. So, you know, back in the day, we used to invite actors to come in and audition. Used to come in the room, we talk, we have a conversation, we build a rapport. You know, we're complimenting each other's shoes, whatever it is. So it's like, you know, you're warming up and you're making them feel comfortable because people are coming in there giving their whole life, you know what I mean? They're being as vulnerable as possible. So we want to be there to help build and structure that. But now a lot of things are, you know, on self tapes and, you know, you're just sending in your audition. So just looking for it goes back to that confidence. We're looking for you to pay attention and follow instructions, you know, do your research on the character or the producers or, you know, whatever you can to get the backstory of this, like, go as far in, ask questions if you need to. But, you know, I'm really just looking for the bright person that fits, you know, the vision. Whether it starts with they fit my vision or it's the producer's vision or the network, depending on who I'm, you know, serving at the time.
- [09:48]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah. So I think it's safe to say it always starts with confidence. No matter what industry you're in, you gotta just be confident. Bring that and people see it and people will gravitate towards your confidence. So I love that, you know, for the, for the actors and act, you know, out there that are, you know, trying to, trying to get. They win, lay in. Just stay with, stay confident, you know.
- [10:06]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Stay confident, stay confident.
- [10:07]
Jojo Simmons
All will work out. You know, what's one project that you've worked on that you feel really shifted the way people think about representation and, and why does it matter to you personally?
- [10:18]
Natasha Ward Shaw
So I try to add me and what I'm wanting and diversity and what I look like and what my friends look like and what I want to see on tv and just even sometimes what I see on Instagram or what people are saying to me in my DMs, you know, so I'm always looking to diversify or, you know, look past the social norms of what people are wanting. The straight hair, the, you know, just the classic beauty looks and all of that. So I want real. What's real? What do I see when I go to Target and, you know, and. Because when I turn on my tv, I don't see it. It's not in the films, it's not as widely as. And we started doing that though. I'm very grateful for a lot of these shows and a lot of directors who are able to make the shift. And it's hard to make the shift because we have to get the funding, we have to get the, the money to do these projects, especially if they're on an independent level, you know, and so you have to kind of go with what they want, what their standards are. So it's hard to break those molds. But, like, you know, Issa Rae has come out and she's able to do what she wants to do. But that's, you know, that's, it's, it. It took her, you know, a while to get there, you know, but I still. You got to break through. And there's a lot of us who have been able to break through. And I be, I'm able to break through in casting in some way. Sometimes it's not the lead roles, but I'm able to kind of come in and switch up, you know, instead of the doctor being a man, can he be this beautiful plus size black woman or can he be, you know, this natural hair, can they have locks? You know, all of those kind of what we see every day kind of being.
- [12:09]
Jojo Simmons
Can you name a project that you worked on that you feel really shifted the way people think about that representation? Just one project that you maybe had to step in and say, you know, I want this person to be represented this way. I want it to look like this way. And I know, you know, you said it's hard for you to break through even as a casting director, but when you do have that word and when you can make that change, is there a project that really sticks out to you, that you're really proud of, that it really meant something to you personally?
- [12:32]
Natasha Ward Shaw
There's several, which is great because I fight, I like to fight. I will go head to head. I will go toe to toe, you know, but you have to be the talent that has the ammunition for me, though. So sometimes, you know, if they're not prepared or they don't have the right materials or I can't show other works of them, you know, it makes my argument harder. But there was this project that I did. It was an independent film called Loco, and Justin Galindo is the director. And we worked across the hall from each other. He was a producer director, and I was doing, I was casting. I don't even know what I was casting across the hall might have been kicks, but I was casting something across the hall and we were just friendly and talked. He was like, oh, come over into my office. And I looked at his office and all the headshots for his film and all of the characters he already had, they were all white. And it was one kind of Spanish guy, but he looked white too. And I was like, what you doing? I need some. Where's the blackness? I need some Give me that. And he was like, well, would you be my casting director? Would you step in? And I was like, you're damn right I will. So I came over, changed the lead to a black girl, Jeffrey Maya, who was in, you know, Home, All American Homecoming, she's so dope. They gave her a spin off show, but it was just to where his whole wall was white. And I was like, this doesn't represent anything or anyone. So I was still able to come in. Not only did I make the lead girl, the love interest, the lead, the whole movie about her, I was able to add another maestro, another supporting role, to be black. And he had no idea that he was wanting to be that. Like, he was just like, I never saw it that way. I didn't understand. And I was like, but you have to, you have to pay attention to these things. Representation matters, you know, and even pitting against each other and. But, you know, it's just there's a lot of places where the worlds are just not all white.
- [14:35]
Jojo Simmons
You know, I think that's important. And you talk about representation mattering and obviously it matters for us in movies, but it matters in the casting director spaces and it matters in the rooms where the actors aren't. Like when people like you are able to show up and somebody says, hey, can you be my casting director? And you're making sure that you represent to be the representation for those people that can represent us to be in those movies. Right. So that's why I think it's super important. And I love that you were able to come in and change it up. And he was able to trust you with your vision and understand that representation is just being relatable to the world. It's not, you know, the world isn't just like you said, just all white. Right. And it is. There's white people, there's all type of people, but the world is everybody. And yes, the sometimes be a heavy black woman. Yes, the lead woman could be a black woman, you know. You know, so I think that that's amazing. And as we speak about representation and colorism in the industry, I want to kind of get down on that a little bit. It's been a long standing issue in Hollywood, obviously from your perspective. And I know you just told that story, but how have you seen it show up in like casting rooms?
- [15:36]
Natasha Ward Shaw
So in a lot of rooms, it doesn't start with, you know, the producers and the directors. Usually it really is when we step in as casting or if a lot of productions don't have, you know, Black female department heads or, you know, leads of departments that can come in and try to change, change the narrative of how things are going. So I know for me, when I step into the room, when I'm hired, you know, as I go through the script, I write down different ideas and they're not all, you know, the way that the director wanted it. I throw in a couple redheads. If it is something to that or, you know, my black girls are African or British or whatever it is, I'll throw them in, into the mix so that they have to see it, so that it can't be overlooked, you know, and I back it up. I'll have, you know, their demo reels with me, their resumes, their clips from this movie or whatever so that I can go in and show like, hey, this world needs a little flavor or needs a little something else added into.
- [16:41]
Jojo Simmons
It, you know, I love how you fight for us and fight for your people, man. It's much needed. So speaking about the lack of dark skinned black women in lead roles, why do you think that barrier has been so persistent even as diversity has become a bigger conversation in the world as a whole?
- [16:59]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Because they don't think it's going to make money. They don't think they're going to make their money back with a black face as the lead. And then here we are, the rollbacks and DEI and all of that. So it's further saying, I told you so, you know, they don't make the money. They shouldn't be the face of this when we are especially black females. We are the strongest force out there, you know, and without us, stuff is going to crumble. They don't believe in us, they don't champion us, they don't believe that we, we can. And we've shown them time and time and time and time again that we absolutely can, that we can be. You know, before it was what was the only black woman lead. It was like, you know, Halle Berry and that was it. And for years, for centuries, you know, and now we're able to kind of introduce a lot of others. But it's a slow introduction to it, but it's, it's a lot of hate, A lot of hate that we're not, we're not it.
- [17:57]
Jojo Simmons
You, you spoke about earlier that you, you were able to come in as a casting director and the man was very open to you changing things up and wasn't really against it. But have you ever walked in a room where it was very biased and you had to fight all the time?
- [18:10]
Natasha Ward Shaw
That happens more with studios and networks because they have different numbers that they go off of. They. They have different. You know, their. Their algorithm is totally different. So if they say no, they really mean no. And so you still fight. You know, I've been told no more times than I've been said yes to, but it's still worth the fight, even at the end. And I'll say to my husband, I'm like, the pushback, the fight. They're not letting me win. And he's like, well, just keep at it. And I'll keep at it even though that door is being slammed. And then that's when I try to. If I can't sway from the lead or the supporting, you know, can my day players, you know, the ones that come in and say one line, can I at least make, you know, the neighborhood or the grocery store or, you know, the DMV at least look like a real, true city or a world that we really believe, you know, live in? Yeah, it's a lot of fight.
- [19:08]
Jojo Simmons
But even that's important. Even if we couldn't, you know, can't get the lead role, can't get the supporting role. Just saying, hey, can. Can. Can they just get an opportunity to be in the movie? Can they get an opportunity to team, right? Can they get an opportunity to get paid, right? Can they just get an opportunity to. To be in a space where they are trying to break through, and it's not easy to break through. So just give them something to give them. To keep them going. Right? To keep them going. So beyond casting, what needs to shift in writers rooms, producers offices, and executive suites to create lasting equity for us?
- [19:39]
Natasha Ward Shaw
I think more having more black people in position of power, having them as the department heads, you know, because before it's, you know, Oscar's so white, or this is so. And it's everybody who's making the decisions are older white men who have no idea what's happening right now in 2025. But it's having more of us in those leadership roles, us being able to tell more of our stories, people taking risk and chances on the stories that we want to tell, that we have written. I mean, there's a stockpile of stuff out here, you know, that needs to be told. So I know I take projects and I go and pitch, and I go to the studios and production companies, and I'm out here pitching, you know, just to keep it going, you know, just not stopping. But if we could control a little bit more, like the Issas and Ava duvernays and. And those guys out there, then we'll be better off.
- [20:35]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah, I agree.
- [20:36]
Natasha Ward Shaw
They just need to open the window up.
- [20:38]
Jojo Simmons
As we show up, we got to just keep on showing out and keep on building each other, bringing each other, bringing us up. Yeah, we need to bring others on. We need to. I know obviously we. We need to be fair and like others, not be biased. Right. But we also need to make sure that we bring. We bring our, you know, our people on. And we. And the people that are working, the people that are talented, not just say, give anybody a chance because they're black or because they're a woman, but somebody that truly deserves that role, somebody that truly is good at that role. There's so many people out there that haven't gotten the role because of so many different political answers. And they have the talent, they have the skill. And speaking of, I wouldn't say personal experience, but from somebody I know. My sister, Vanessa Simmons is an actor. She's done a lot of different roles. And, you know, I want to talk about.
- [21:23]
Natasha Ward Shaw
I want to talk about three, four.
- [21:24]
Jojo Simmons
Times, and I hope you continue to continue to. But for many black women in the industry, those casting decisions, they carry a real personal weight. And I've seen it with my sister from when she's gotten role. She's been at the high of the high to where she hasn't gotten role. And she's a little down. Right. But she keeps going. Can you tell me how, like, colorism has affected the confidence or experiences of. Of actresses that you've coached or casted? Like you said, you've casted my sister, you've coached other ones. Can you tell me how, like, that colorism or those, you know, that that part of it stops and how that can really affect the confidence of a lot of these actors?
- [21:58]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Oh, it's definitely a huge factor because, like, when you go and like, say, Jasper coaching someone, their immediate thought is, oh, I ain't going to get this. They going to get this to this white boy, or they going to give it to, you know, they homie, they gonna give it to their friend or whatever it is. So it's like having to. And a lot of times when I coach, I feel like, you know, sometimes it's like a therapy session. Like, I have to. I have to warm you up to the fact that you're just amazing. You're great. God gave you this blessing, this talent, and we're gonna cultivate it and make it great. But it is. I have to. It's a full conversation in the beginning about, you know, you got this or, or, you know, whatever it is. Because they've seen so many no's, and the no's aren't based on their talent. It's not based on, you know, some. If it's based on your looks, like that's something you can't change. You can change your talent. You can get, take classes, you can do all of these things, but your looks are your looks. You know, you can't change the shape of your nose or your ears or whatever it is that, you know, they're already discouraged about. So that's why I said from the beginning how confidence is so important because you have to rely on your true ability of what it is you're doing, believing in yourself and your talent, because that's what's really going to take you far. Because that's what we see. That's what I see. And that's what I'm going to push forward, you know, so it's, it's, it's really difficult because each actor does, you know, they're sensitive about their shit, you know, so.
- [23:30]
Jojo Simmons
And not just acting. Every space, trust me, in every space.
- [23:35]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Every space. Yeah. You know, and so they just get caught up in their head a lot when it comes to what it is they, they're set out to do. And so it's, it's just building them up and just giving them their props and all of that.
- [23:51]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah, I love that because I was, I was going to ask you, what do you say to young actresses entering the industry that are facing these biases head on, but you answered it. You treat it like a therapy session. Keep their confidence up. You tell them that it isn't your talent. Sometimes that doesn't get you to roll. It's a lot of different deciding factors, but you gotta make sure that you're confident. It isn't your nose, it isn't your look, it isn't this, it isn't that. It's just putting in the work and, you know, you just gotta keep going. So I love that. That's how you keep their confidence up. So, you know, as you're fighting and working with these people and fighting these people to make sure we get representation. Like, how do you take care of yourself while doing this work knowing that you're constantly navigating resistance and pushing for change? Like, what do you do, Natasha, to take care of yourself so that you can take care of everybody else?
- [24:37]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Man, let me tell you how stressed out I am. No recently married. So that's an amazing, amazing Thing. Thank you. Marriage is wonderful. I have three kids, so they keep me busy, you know, Kids keep you busy. And I enjoy cooking. Like, I went to culinary school, so cooking and partying. I'm a huge partier. Like, I love to entertain. I love to invite. Like, every year I have a Christmas party. Everybody gets a plate and a present. You know what I mean? And house is packed, but it's just giving back to the community, giving back to my folks, giving back to people who help build me up. I'm like, I said 21 years, and there's. I didn't do it by myself, you know what I mean? But believing in God is number one, you know? But family life is great. I love to travel, you know, just. I'm just a cool, chill, laid back, you know, nothing really. I don't let stuff bother me too much, you know what I mean? I'm always gonna greet you with a smile. All the time. You're gonna see a smile out of me.
- [25:43]
Jojo Simmons
Finding the time to spend with your family is. Is how you kind of get your. Your relax, your. Your breather from fighting via the other. The other parts of the world and doing. I love that you find solace in family. So that's an amazing. And that's what it should be. You should always find solace in the people you love. And the people that love you, they should always make you, your family. Should always feel like you're a safe space. It should always feel like home. So I'm happy that it feels like home to you. And that's where you run to when you just need a break from it all.
- [26:12]
Natasha Ward Shaw
I run, too. I run straight to my husband's arm.
- [26:16]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So I want to talk about the future a little bit and what it should look like. If you could reimagine Hollywood 10 years from now, what would you want the landscape representation to look like?
- [26:28]
Natasha Ward Shaw
You know, just exactly what we see literally every day. You know, I want it just to be diverse. I want empower. I want us empower black women to be respected. I want all women to get the respect that we deserve. It's so hard because 10 years from now, I'm trying to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow because the industry is so discombobulated and janky. Who knows what's going to happen? But I do know right now is a great time to make the shift for someone to come in, hopefully someone black and female. This is my hope that they get to come in and kind of change the way stuff is handled right now because everything is so broken, it is now an open lane for anyone to kind of come in and reshape how we cast movies, how we shoot movies, where we shoot them at, how all of these new decisions and changes and everything, you know, because it's, it's open. It is wide open with the AI coming in and that, trying to take everyone's job and. And I've even been in rooms where we're talking about casting and the producer is like, oh, well, here's my ChatGPT list of who we should go after. I'm like, whoa, hold on. There's nothing creative about this. There's. It's not.
- [27:45]
Jojo Simmons
You're nothing personalized.
- [27:46]
Natasha Ward Shaw
It's nothing personalized. You just picked random names and you know, what you thought was hot. But this is not what's hot. This is not the scale. I'm looking for that up and comer, that underdog or that person, like we said before, who just got that opportunity to do that one role, but they're even way more talented, you know, or someone I've seen on TikTok or Instagram, because I will go through there too and find what's new and what's fresh. And those people are talented as well, you know, so they come from everywhere. So just being open, available and, and open minded to, to what is real and what is missing. I kind of went all over the place with that.
- [28:29]
Jojo Simmons
But no, you went. Right.
- [28:30]
Natasha Ward Shaw
You feel me perfect.
- [28:31]
Jojo Simmons
You know, I feel you went perfect and I agree. And you know, something I'd like to see is just more togetherness. I'm just so tired of the differentiation of a black movie in a different type of movie. Like, I just feel like we should all just be one. It should be a movie, a black movie. It doesn't have to be casted all black because this is a black love story and it doesn't have to be casted all white because this is the 300 movie or whatever you want to. Whatever you want to say, right? Like, I just feel like it's just so divided. It feel like a good story is a good story. No matter who's casted, no matter the color of the person that's on the screen or whoever the color is the lead is. I don't care if it's white, black, Spanish, Asian, you know, I really don't care. I just want a good story. But I want it to feel more together. I don't want to feel like a black movie has to drop two, three weeks later. After a certain movie because you feel it won't do numbers because another movie dropped and we're not going to get the support because of that. Right. So. And as much as I love that we champion, like, the Black Panthers in the movies that do do good, I just feel like it shouldn't just feel different. It should just feel like a really good movie that did well, not a really good black movie that did well. And then, oh, my God, we're so surprised. This black movie did billions of dollars. Oh, my God, you shouldn't be surprised. A good story is a good story, whether it's a black story, a white story. Anybody's story. Anybody's story should be able to sell and really connect with people, as long as the story's told in a good manner. And that's how I feel about movies and TV shows. It's like there's too much separation in it. Right? Like, you talk about Delina's, I talk about the 50 cents, and it's like, you think that they do one type of thing, but I love to see them also break through and just work with everybody. And I'm not saying they're not open to doing it. I'm saying that probably the other side is not as open to doing it. You know what I mean? So I just hope that there's more inclusiveness, and I hope that there's more togetherness when it comes to Hollywood in the future. That's just me personally speaking, being a person that likes movies, being a person that likes TV shows, being a person that just watches it and, like you said, just wishes that there was more representation in both sides of it. That's what I truly believe, because that's what the world is today. It isn't just one race. It's everybody. We are a melting pot of beautiful, wonderful, intelligent people, and I think that needs to be represented on tv. Sorry, I didn't mean to jump into it, but that's just how I feel.
- [30:39]
Natasha Ward Shaw
So we articulated what I was saying, and we put it all together. So thank you.
- [30:45]
Jojo Simmons
Appreciate you. What role does Joy not just struggle playing the kinds of story that you want to see told on the screen, because, you know, a lot of it is just based off struggle. Some of these black, you know, shows, stuff like that. But what role does Joy play into the kinds of roles and movies you want to see on tv?
- [31:00]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Well, it starts, too, with the shows and movies that, you know, that I'm approached with and what I want to continue to build my legacy on, you know, So I want to celebrate us and our voices and what we are doing, you know. So I tend to lean more into the love and the happiness and the family, you know. Horror is my favorite genre, so I always want horror. But you know, just feel good stories, things that bring me joy and happiness as well, you know what I mean? That help build and not tear down. I've never had to do like a slave movie or anything of that, you know what I mean? It's, I'm trying to move past that as far as I can away from that. Those are stories that still need to be told for sure, you know, But I want to be more of that positive light, you know, and to bring joy, like that smile. I want that smile to never fade.
- [31:58]
Jojo Simmons
What keeps you hopeful in this work? Like, even when the change feels like it's a little slow and it feels like, ah, I just, it's not going as fast as I want, it's not going how I want it, you know, I do want to see change, but it just feels like some days there isn't no change. What keeps you hopeful?
- [32:11]
Natasha Ward Shaw
The actors, the talent that I work with, the dreams that I'm help building and you know, and it's my God given purpose. Like this is, I know this is why I'm here in LA and why I've been here so long. Because I could leave tomorrow, you know, Even though I could. Because you can cast and we can operate now from anywhere over the world, you know, but it really is the actors, they're my driving force, you know, I've been there, you know, I've opened up my couch to actors and you know, I've taken them to auditions and like I said, I flew down for one day to Atlanta. You know, we talked about, oh, I got an audition on Friday and I was like, all right, well, I'll come to you. That was Thursday afternoon. I left Thursday night and got to Atlanta, the handle, you know, so it's really, there's passion there. I root for you. I want you to win because we all win. You know, when, when one of my sisters is brought up, that's, you know, that's a, that's a, it's amazing, beautiful thing.
- [33:15]
Jojo Simmons
So happy to hear that. What's, what we're, you know, we're, we're coming towards the end. Few more questions, but I would love to know, like what's one piece of wisdom or advice that you carry with you that you'd want to share with our listeners?
- [33:26]
Natasha Ward Shaw
I wake up every day and say I'm blessed to Be a blessing. That's something that always goes with me. I have to constantly say it. I also say, you know, never put a question mark when God put a period. Go straightforward. You know, don't. Don't turn around. Don't go backwards. Just keep moving. It'll work itself out. You know, you are gifted, you are talented, and you are doing your calling to just keep going. Just keep going. Yeah, keep going.
- [33:55]
Jojo Simmons
Is there anything you else. Anything else you have going on, any projects you want to tell us that you're working on that are coming up? I know that in the movie world, there's so many things you probably can't discuss with anything special, anything exciting that you can tell us about that you got coming up.
- [34:06]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Producing is, like I said, super exciting. So I have tons of projects that I'm producing. One based on Lauryn Hill, which I think is super exciting. Projects that I'm working with friends on. I always get excited. Just started working with a friend, Crystal Roberson and Roberson Dorsey and her husband Omar. Me and my husband are producing team now, and we just won an award this weekend and we won two awards for our second short film that we did. So it's super exciting. We won audience award, which is the better award of it all. And then we won best short, but, you know, to slowly make a difference and change. And this one is about a Dominican girl and a Haitian guy who, you know, have to fall in love for all intents and purposes to get a green card. But, you know, it's just like telling our stories with our friends and stuff. So I just like. I just like working. I like making people happy. I like the joy that comes from it all. But working with my husband, I would say, is super awesome to be able to build together, you know, and have someone who understands what I'm going through, you know, on that side of it all. And then to win an award at the first festival that we entered into, so just continuing to do great things. But there's tons and tons of projects that I have. I have at least 10 right now, so it doesn't stop.
- [35:34]
Jojo Simmons
I believe it works. Excited to see the stuff you got coming up. Can you tell us, is there anything that you're excited about or inspired by right now? Any books, any movies, any music albums? Anything that my listeners may say? You know, I'm. Check that out. Anything you've been inspired by lately?
- [35:49]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Oh, that's a good question.
- [35:51]
Jojo Simmons
We like to ask these questions towards the end to give our listeners some. Something to leave with. It could be Anything. It could be a recent work on. It could be anything. I feel like you kind of answered it. I feel like you're inspired by working with your husband now. You know, it's been a while doing a lot on your own, and I feel like, you know, what I hear through the screen is like, you're super inspired and excited to work with your husband. It's been inspiring for you to get somebody on your team that not only are you married to, but understands what you're going through and what you go through every day, especially in fighting for representation and, you know, inclusiveness in Hollywood. So I feel like that's what you're inspired by. I think that's very inspiring to find somebody that you love that also loves what you love. Right? That's. That's super inspiring.
- [36:33]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Yeah, I think that's. You hit it right on the head.
- [36:37]
Jojo Simmons
Yeah. And as we wrap up, I like to ask this question, you know, I asked this question to. To everybody as my last question on the For Good podcast. We're very big on mental health here, so I'd love to ask you, what have you done for your mental health lately? Do you take your mental health serious? And what, you know, what are your routines? If anybody out there is listening and struggles with mental health or just needs to know, what does Natasha Ward Shaw do for her mental health and what have you done lately?
- [37:02]
Natasha Ward Shaw
As soon as I wake up, I go straight to the Bible, straight to my lesson. It's already planned out for me. You know, I. I go right there before I check anything else, before I get on social media or check the emails or see whose call I missed. I go straight there, get in the word, get my head in my mental. Right? And then I'll dive right into whatever work or whatever is. Is looming out there. But I start with God. It is our. Our time, right in the beginning, and I think it sets the day. It sets the. The tone for the day, you know, because I can always go back to whatever verse that was that I read or whatever. Whatever I wrote down, whatever my notes were or whatever that is or, you know, but that's why I start. And I think that helps seriously get me through, because, like I said, I work on several projects at once, and that's a lot of different people I'm dealing with. And so it's a lot of different personalities. And so it always helps me center and come back to one when I can go back to that verse or that. That special quote or whatever it is that, you know, can get me through this the fight of the day. Yeah.
- [38:10]
Jojo Simmons
Amen.
- [38:11]
Natasha Ward Shaw
God is number one.
- [38:12]
Jojo Simmons
I love how everybody, everybody I bring on here either says the gym or God. So I love that people's faith are shining through on the For Good podcast. And, Natasha, as we wrap this up, I do want to say thank you for what you do, not only coming on this podcast, but for being a representation in a space where we don't get much representation, especially black people, black leading women. You know, as I said, my sister's an actor, and I know how hard it is for her to break through. Although she's gotten many roles, still very hard for her and hard for many others. So somebody like you that's fighting for these women, fighting for our people in these rooms, to make sure that even when the other person isn't being biased and they're just not. They just don't know. Right? They just don't. They don't know. They need somebody to come in and say, hey, this is not what the world looks like every day. The world looks like this every day. And you're the person and one of the people that are out here showing up, doing the work and making sure that we have chances and opportunities. Not only is if it has to be a lead role or supporting role, but just getting an opportunity and the chance and going. Doing that goes a long way. I want. I want to let you know that you're a special person. A lot of people don't come to back for people. A lot of people, you know, a lot of people are cool with just taking care of themselves, going home, getting a paycheck and living their lives. But you're going beyond that. You're making sure that you get other people paid and other people opportunities with the opportunity that you receive. So I do want to thank you. I want to give you your flowers as I give at every, every, every end of episode, because this is the For Good podcast. We do bring on people that are putting out good into the world. And I believe that you are putting out more than good into the world when it comes to us being represented, especially in Hollywood, because we already know there's so much talent out here, especially in our culture and our community, that hasn't gotten a chance and you are fighting for us. So thank you, Natasha Ward Shaw, thank you so much.
- [39:55]
Natasha Ward Shaw
Oh, thank you so much, Jojo. This has been amazing. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. And thank you for this podcast like it is needed, especially how you touch on the mental health. I deal with that a lot with actors and you know, we have, like I said, that therapy couch. We start there and you have to kind of talk some people off a ledge sometimes. And so it is really important to start there. So thank you for this platform and what you do.
- [40:21]
Jojo Simmons
Thank you so much. God bless you everybody. It's your guy, JoJo Simmons. This was another episode of the 4 Good podcast where we focus on the good, never the bad, where we're measured by what we do, not what we have. We're signing out. Till next time, your boy, Jojo. Natasha Ward Shaw Peace.
- [40:51]
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