For Heaven’s Sake – “After the Joy” (October 17, 2025)

Hosts: Donniel Hartman & Yossi Klein Halevi
Presented by: Shalom Hartman Institute & Ark Media

Episode Overview

In this deeply emotional and reflective episode titled “After the Joy,” Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi discuss the remarkable day marking the release of Israeli hostages and its impact on Israeli society. The hosts explore themes of collective trauma, national solidarity, the deeper meanings of “home,” and the moral and strategic dilemmas Israel faces moving forward. Through heartfelt personal reflections, the episode probes what a moment of communal joy means after years of pain and what comes next for Israel’s future, both internally and with its neighbors.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Day of the Hostages' Return: Collective Experience and Emotional Release

• A Day Spent as One Nation:

  • Israelis experienced the release of hostages intensely and communally, glued to news updates from morning until evening.

    “3/4 of Israel was watching the news till about 5 o’clock… I don’t think anybody in this country was disconnected.” (C, 01:55)

  • The return was defined by moments — hostages in Red Cross care, hostages with the IDF, and finally, hostages home.

• Overwhelming Emotional Response:

  • Yossi shares the magnitude of relief and gratitude, emphasizing the moment Israeli soldiers took custody of the hostages as the emotional breaking point.

    “The most powerful moment for me ... was when they announced the first hostages are in the hands of the IDF. And just saying that, I just feel overwhelmed again. And I just broke down.” (B, 03:12)

  • The hosts note the collective crying, the release after two years of near-unbearable national pressure.

• Complexity of Joy and Exhaustion:

  • The celebration was bittersweet, mingled with exhaustion and awareness of loss.

    “There was this sense of exhaustion mingled with joy. It wasn’t pure joy. It was more complicated.” (B, 05:20)

2. The Meaning of Family, Home, and Jewish Peoplehood

• Belonging Beyond Politics:

  • Donniel, pivoting from strategic or political thinking, locates the essence of the moment in familial belonging.

    “For me, it was just a day, a family. And we belong to a nation which is a family.” (C, 05:48)

• The Covenant of Being:

  • Donniel expands, reflecting on his writing about Jewish identity as a “covenant of being,” where belonging and empathy are central, superseding action or belief.

    “The deepest part of my Jewishness is what I call ... the covenant of being. That Judaism as a religion is about belonging and being part of a 3,000 year old story and a 3,000 year old people.” (C, 09:17)

• Hostage Solidarity and National Values:

  • The focus on every hostage, regardless of strategic calculus, illustrates this core value.

    “20 hostages, why should that matter?… This was the day in which we just connected to each other as one in a beautiful way.” (C, 10:22–10:29)

  • Yossi observes that this solidarity, while a strength, is also a vulnerability exploited by opponents.

3. Strategic and Moral Questions

• Solidarity as Strategy and Dilemma:

  • Yossi and Donniel discuss the strategic tension between rescuing hostages and prosecuting the war, with Yossi warning that failing the hostages would irreparably damage Israeli solidarity.

    “If... the government allowed the hostages to die, there would be an irreparable tear in the sense of solidarity in this country. Many, many Israelis would say, this is not the same country anymore.” (B, 14:16)

• Hostage Redemption in Jewish Tradition:

  • Donniel brings in the Jewish concept of pidyon shevuyim (redeeming captives) as a religious and national principle.

    “Maimonides says this commandment takes precedence over all. Now, you think, in a religion of 613 commandments... why would you make pidyon shevuyim the most important?” (C, 14:35)

• Distrust in Government Motives:

  • Donniel expresses concern that pursuit of conflict may be politically motivated rather than genuinely strategic and laments the lack of shared language in Israeli politics (13:11–13:44).

4. After the Joy: What Next?

• Short-Term Impact and Societal Healing:

  • Yossi hopes the experience will spark a longing for healing and cohesiveness beyond the moment.

    “This was a day when we reminded ourselves of what this country can be when we’re not at each other’s throats... it expressed the longing for healing, for healing this society.” (B, 18:30)

  • The hosts worry that without new leadership, this spirit will dissipate amid partisan habits.

• Need for New Language and Leadership:

  • Donniel calls for “fergin” – the Yiddish term for granting the other side legitimacy and value.

    “If we don’t start ferginning each other as a country, if we can’t allow some level of complexity, then it’s never going to happen.” (C, 21:02)

  • Both agree no transformation can last without new leadership and a new discourse.

• Possibility of Peace Language Returning:

  • Donniel speculates the ordeal may make Israeli society more willing to imagine peace or transformation, reviving a decades-dormant vocabulary.

    “I wonder whether a two-year war... elevates the possibility in language and even the value. Maybe we’re going to be less frightened of the term because the reverse... is also very severe.” (C, 26:57)

  • Yossi is more doubtful, listing prerequisites: new leadership, Hamas disarmament, and regional realignment.

• Transformational Moments in Israeli History:

  • Yossi compares this event to previous moments of national uplift, arguing it represents a “spiritual turning point,” not just tactical victory.

    “What happened to us this week with the hostages was a spiritual turning point.” (B, 31:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Hostages’ Return:

  “In that release of weeping, I felt the last two years, the pressure of the last two years. And I don’t think we’ve begun to come to terms with the strain that we’ve been under.” – Yossi (B, 04:44)

• On Solidarity and Hostages:

  “This was the day in which we didn’t articulate, we didn’t argue. We just felt that powerful sense of a familial bond to each other. And we were a family on that day in the best sense of the term.” – Donniel (C, 11:30)

• On Strategic Dilemma:

  “The interest of these kids... this was the total victory. Nothing else. This was just more important. And everything else we’ll deal with later.” – Donniel (C, 13:36)

• On Leadership and Language:

  “For it [healing] to hold, it needs leadership, it needs ideas, it needs language.” – Donniel (C, 20:30)

• On the Possibility of Transformation:

  “Maybe what we’re really kind of groping for is... What happened to us this week with the hostages was a spiritual turning point.” – Yossi (B, 31:35)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:10–01:06: Setting the emotional tone – complexity beneath joy
• 03:12–05:48: Yossi and Donniel exchange personal experiences of the day
• 08:07–11:41: Deep dive on the meaning of “home,” family, and Jewish belonging
• 13:11–15:23: Dilemmas of solidarity vs. strategy; moral underpinnings
• 18:30–20:39: Short-term vision, the longing for healing, and the need for leadership
• 21:02–22:29: The need for “fergin” and a new political language
• 26:57–29:53: The potential for peace discourse to return – necessary conditions
• 31:33–32:24: Spiritual vs. tactical turning points in Israeli collective memory

Overall Tone and Message

The episode is marked by deep empathy, vulnerability, and hope. Both hosts maintain a conversational yet earnest tone, blending personal anecdotes, philosophical reflections, and communal analysis. The language is thoughtful, occasionally playful, and always striving to locate meaning amid immense complexity and trauma.

Final Thoughts

Donniel and Yossi close with reflections on the potential to carry this moment’s spirit forward, not letting it be “just a celebration,” but a catalyst for transformation—internal and external.

“Could we carry it? There’s something there, but now we have to carry it. And that’s now our challenge.” – Donniel (C, 32:24)

They end with a call for closure for all families still grieving, subtly reinforcing the enduring nature of the “familial bond” that so defines the Israeli experience.

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary encapsulates the emotional journey, key arguments, recurring motifs of family and responsibility, and the hosts’ cautious but fervent hopes for societal recovery and healing.