For Heaven’s Sake — “Breathing Again” (October 10, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this milestone episode entitled “Breathing Again,” hosts Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi reflect on a pivotal moment for Israel and the Jewish world: the return of all Israeli hostages after two years of war following October 7th. They discuss the societal, political, and spiritual significance of this moment of collective relief—a moment they liken to “breathing again”—while also contending with the meaning of victory, the complexities behind this achievement, and the challenges and hopes that lie ahead for Israel and the broader Middle East.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional and Societal Impact: “Breathing Again”

• The hosts repeatedly refer to the return of the hostages as a moment where Israelis can finally exhale after years of collective tension and grief.
  • Donniel shares the experience of waking at 2:20 am to good news, experiencing for the first time in years a sense of hope and joy (02:21).
  • Yossi describes how “this is the first time since October 7th when I think about the situation we’re in, and I’m literally...I’m not holding myself tight” (00:38, 04:48).

Notable Quote

“Everywhere I'm going, we were expecting. And people were waiting, and over and again, people were talking about the amount of oxygen that they have now access to.” — Donniel Hartman [00:26]

2. Sukkot as a Metaphor for Resilience and Renewal

• Sukkot, the holiday known as “Zman Simchateinu” (the time of our joy), was used as a lens for understanding the emotional restoration happening in Israel.
  • Donniel explains the deeper meaning of Sukkot, not as a celebration of a singular event, but of ongoing relationships and resilience (05:08).
  • The hosts recall how the atmosphere of joy and normalcy was restored—in sharp contrast to the emotional devastation since October 7th.

Notable Quote

“It’s a holiday of joy not because of some momentous moment, but because it celebrates our relationship—an ongoing, sustained, living relationship of care and concern that God has and that God exhibited to us during the 40 years.” — Donniel Hartman [05:37]

3. The Anatomy of the Breakthrough Deal: Moving Beyond Miracles

• The hosts emphasize that this moment was not just a “miracle,” but the result of several interwoven forces:
  • The families of hostages’ advocacy and public demonstrations, applying pressure strategically.
  • The role of Donald Trump (“Trump” throughout the transcript) in bringing the deal to fruition, not just for personal vanity but, as Donniel argues, out of genuine humanitarian concern (09:21–15:27).
  • Sustained military pressure from Israel, which created urgency in the region.
  • Arab and Muslim partners, particularly Qatar and Turkey, who were pressured into delivering Hamas to the negotiating table.
  • This multifaceted, even unlikely, cooperation is described by Yossi as “the miracle”—that all “the opposing parts” of the people and region played a role (09:21).

Notable Quotes

“For me, the miracle...is that the disparate, the opposing parts of the people of Israel all had a role to play in bringing us here.” — Yossi Klein Halevi [09:21]
“Trump put together a coalition, and that coalition also requires a narrative...and we see it in the 20th clause of the Trump peace plan about how America is going to bring Israel and the Palestinians together to negotiate.” — Donniel Hartman [16:43]

4. Redefining Victory: The Power of Returning Hostages

• Yossi and Donniel explore how the deal reframes what “victory” means for Israelis—shifting it from military objectives to the profound psychological and moral achievement of bringing the hostages home.
  • Yossi: “What this deal does is reframe the context of victory. What does victory mean? …The measure of victory for the overwhelming majority of Israelis was this moment, getting all the hostages back.” [20:22]

5. Political Ramifications: Winners, Losers, and the New Map

• Netanyahu’s acceptance of the deal is debated: Was it forced by international realities, outmaneuvering the far right, or a moment of pragmatic leadership?
  • Donniel notes that only a leader like Netanyahu could have sold this deal domestically, shifting the right-wing narrative and diffusing opposition from hardliners (28:08).
  • Yossi observes that the far right, expecting a maximalist outcome, now brands the agreement “Oslo 2” in reference to perceived past betrayals (24:56).
  • The episode explores whether this agreement is a prelude to a new political horizon for Israel and the Palestinians.

Notable Quotes

“They are the big losers here. They really thought, just a few weeks ago...we’re going to be emptying Gaza out.... And what’s so amazing about this deal is [Trump] didn’t forget. He stuck with it.” — Yossi Klein Halevi [24:37]
“If Bennett would try to do this move, Netanyahu would be in the opposition screaming and bringing a million people out. Betrayal. Betrayal.… him doing it, Bennett, everybody else is lining up and supporting.” — Donniel Hartman [28:08]

6. Regional Dynamics and the Long-Term Vision

• The hosts argue that while Turkey and Qatar were tactically necessary, the strategic alignment should now pivot toward partnership with the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia for lasting regional change.
  • Yossi: “We need to treat the Abraham Accord countries as partners.… The long term goal [is] bringing the Saudis into the process.” [29:57]

7. The Unbroken Spirit of Israel

• Donniel closes by invoking the perseverance of Israelis, referencing “Am Yisrael Chai” and the determination to rebuild, move forward, and embrace hope after tragedy (30:24).

Notable Quote

“We’re going to rebuild those storefronts and we’re going to rebuild our lives. And when we rebuild, that’s the way you get out of the pessimism and the determinism of warrior nation… I see not just—and this is enough, this is a dayenu…” — Donniel Hartman [30:46]

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• “What this deal does is reframe the context of victory.” — Yossi Klein Halevi [00:10, 20:22]
• Restoration of public joy on Sukkot: Donniel walks through Jerusalem with his family, describing an unanticipated moment of happiness and normalcy (02:35–04:10).
• First feeling of relief since October 7th: Yossi and Donniel share their emotional and physical reactions (04:48).
• Live TV anchor hug: A spontaneous embrace between a general and a news anchor, symbolizing a wave of pent-up emotion released (08:28).
• Debate over credit/blame for the breakthrough: Both hosts explore the complexities of leadership, lobbying, and external influence that led to the deal (09:21–23:34).
• Far right calls the agreement “Oslo 2”: Referencing debates within Israeli society about national identity and the meaning of compromise (24:59).

Final Reflections

What’s Next for Israel?

• The hosts agree that the future is uncertain, yet they express hope that this “breathing again” moment marks the dawn of a time of rebuilding, dialogue, and perhaps new hope for resolving the conflict.
  • “We’re going to be in building mode. Building mode, talking mode, hopeful mode.” — Donniel Hartman [31:33]

Closing Wishes

• The episode ends with the hosts wishing each other and their listeners a joyful Sukkot and the ability to “breathe again,” expressing cautious optimism for the future (31:35).

Summary Table of Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Quote | Speaker | |---------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------| | 00:10 | “What this deal does is reframe the context of victory.” | Yossi | | 00:26 | “People were talking about the amount of oxygen that they have now access to.” | Donniel | | 04:48 | “I’m not holding myself tight... this is the first time since October 7th.” | Yossi | | 05:37 | “Sukkot is a holiday of joy…because it celebrates our relationship…” | Donniel | | 09:21 | “For me, the miracle…is that the disparate, the opposing parts...all had a role to play.” | Yossi | | 16:43 | “Trump put together a coalition, and that coalition also requires a narrative.” | Donniel | | 20:22 | “It reframes the context of victory.” | Yossi | | 24:56 | “They’re calling this Oslo 2.” | Donniel | | 28:08 | “If Bennett would try to do this move, Netanyahu would be... Betrayal, Betrayal.” | Donniel | | 29:57 | “We need to treat the Abraham Accord countries as partners… bring the Saudis into the process.” | Yossi | | 30:46 | “We’re going to rebuild those storefronts and…our lives…” | Donniel | | 31:35 | Wishing a joyful Sukkot and the ability to “breathe again.” | Donniel/Yossi |

Tone & Takeaways

• The tone is thoughtful, deeply personal, and at times emotional, blending political analysis with spiritual reflection.
• Both hosts grapple candidly with the complexity and contradictions of this moment, but end with an affirmation of hope, resilience, and unity.
• The episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the emotional, spiritual, and political stakes of this turning point in Israel’s history.