← For Heaven's Sake
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- [00:00]
Daniil Warshavsky
Foreign
- [00:03]
Deborah Pardes
I'm Deborah Pardes, the host of Ark News Daily. What's happening in Israel and the Jewish world right now matters, but it can be hard to keep up, let alone make sense of it all. That's why we started ArkNews Daily. Every weekday morning I walk you through the most important news, give you the context you need, and let you know what to look out for next. I don't try to convince you of anything and I don't waste your time. I most days I'll be in your ears for about 10 minutes or less. Then you can move on with your day, hopefully a little bit smarter than before. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or follow the link in the show Notes. I hope to see you tomorrow.
- [00:52]
Narrator/Announcer
You are listening to an art media podcast.
- [00:59]
Daniil Warshavsky
I must tell you, Yossi, more than any other podcast, I'm coming with a profound sense of angst, confusion, even helplessness.
- [01:07]
Yossi Klein Halevi
My first response when I saw it, Danielle, was I wept. I wept because I felt that we are under such overwhelming assault to our legitimacy that I don't know what to say anymore. I don't know how to defend us. This was my first emotional reaction.
- [01:28]
Daniil Warshavsky
Part of what's so frustrating, Yossi, is I know that if we try to defend ourselves, nobody's going to listen. And so let's talk, Yossi, and see if the two of us could offer any direction or any comfort.
- [01:47]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Foreign.
- [01:53]
Daniil Warshavsky
This is Danil Hartman and Yossi Klein Halebi from the Sholem Hartman Institute, and this is our podcast, for heaven's sake, in collaboration with Arc media. Today's Tuesday, May 12, and today's a hard day. There's been so many hard days. For years now, Yossi collecting them. There's been so many challenges. And in this podcast we talk and today our people and Israel were assaulted. They were assaulted by an article in the New York Times by Nicholas Kristof entitled Silence Meets the Rape of Palestinians. A 5,000 word detailed report ostensibly verified by external sources and interviews. Telling a story about our people. The people, Yossi, that you and I love telling a story that is our greatest nightmare. And today we want to talk about how do we feel? How do we respond? How do we think about this? I don't even know how you defend yourself. Should you defend yourself? You know, this article comes out on the same day that the Israel Civil Commission comes out with its report on systemic rape as a part of Hamas's terror campaign. It's just, you know, what do we do with this? I imagine all of our audience has read this The Jewish world is all going to talk about this. I want to, in the outset, recommend Chaviv Red Gur's article on X, which will be linked in our show notes, which is an attempt to do something very, very thoughtful and complex at the same time. And I want to give him a lot of credit for it. You know, Yossi, last week we spoke about settler violence. We spoke about a phenomena that occurs in a small segment of Israeli society, but one in which there's a large segment of Israeli society. Our complicit suf silence. And we spoke about the moral challenge of Israel. Is this the next stage? What do we do? It's like, I'm angry. I'm horrified. The truth is, I don't know how I'm supposed to feel, Yossi.
- [04:27]
Yossi Klein Halevi
I know.
- [04:27]
Daniil Warshavsky
I love my people. Like, that's not. I'm an Israeli now. What do we do? Part of what's so frustrating, Yossi, is I know that if we try to defend ourselves, nobody's going to listen. It's just such a deep frustration. What do you do? I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And I'm sure all of our audience is feeling a similar feeling. And so let's talk, Yossi, and see if the two of us could offer any direction or any comfort. And I must tell you, Yossi, more than any other podcast from the outset, I'm coming with a profound sense of angst, confusion, even helplessness. And so there's a great advantage, Yossi, to you, Stalin. I framed the question. You'll see. Let's do it in stages. And our first response doesn't have to be our second or our third. You read it. What did you feel?
- [05:28]
Yossi Klein Halevi
My first response when I saw it, Daniil, was I wept. I wept not because I was overwhelmed with shame and grief for what Christoph accuses us of doing. I wept because I felt that we are under such overwhelming assault to our legitimacy that I don't know what to say anymore. I don't know how to defend us. This was my first emotional reaction. It's not my second, but my first was, I have nothing to say. They won. They won. They've managed to turn us into the world's Nazis. Just when we respond to one accusation, along comes five others. And how do you fight against not just the big lie, but the succession of big lies? And every big lie always has a kernel of truth. We know that that's how the big lies work. And I don't know, and you don't know what's True here. What's not true? And we'll talk about that. We'll talk about what we assume might be real in this report without really knowing the facts, what might not be real. But my initial feeling was weeping, and also weeping from rage. Rage. I felt that the New York Times in particular, but much of the liberal media is obsessed with us. An obsession is never healthy. Even an obsession of love isn't healthy. When I saw this piece, I immediately thought of another piece that the Times ran yesterday about the Eurovision, Israel's place in the Eurovision. Did you see that, Daniil?
- [07:27]
Daniil Warshavsky
Yes. How we are manipulating the Eurovision for our own public relations.
- [07:33]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Now, you read that and it's a very long piece and it's full of outrage. Israel is subverting European cheating. It's like cheating, cheating.
- [07:46]
Daniil Warshavsky
And yet I would say we're Jewing the Eurovision.
- [07:50]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Daniil, I couldn't have said it better myself. And then you read the piece and you realize we didn't break any laws. There was no accusation from your vision of bad faith. And when I talk about obsession, that's what I mean. And why did we do this? Why did we promote our position in Eurovision? Because we're under assault there. Because there are these massive calls for boycotting, because we know that many people vote against Israel for political reasons. And so who began subverting this cultural event? It wasn't us. We were defending ourselves. And there's a metaphor here, I think, for the last two and a half years. And so for the Times to run this piece right after running the Eurovision piece, of course, there's no direct connection, but I felt that it was opening up a little window into what's going on in the minds of these people. Israel, we dragged America into war. We are Trump's allies. We are the biggest problem right now in the world. And the Times is treating us as the world's greatest problem. So that's the background that I brought to this. And that's why I wept, because I felt overwhelmed and helpless today.
- [09:22]
Daniil Warshavsky
You know, Yossi, first of all, thank you for that. As I'm listening to you, I'm both appreciating what you're saying and frustrated at the same time. When I read the article, I had a hole in my heart, just a hole, because I don't know how I'm supposed to defend myself. What are we supposed to do? It's like there's so many fronts that we face. Physical danger, people are attacked. It's like, now this, it's just a head of hole and a Profound sadness. The line that punched me the deepest was when Christoph said, oh, we know that rape happens all over the world in prison systems and in wars. It happened. It's like, let's. It's not a big deal. And. And I would have no justification extensively to writing this article, but we're funding Israel. And so we go back to the. We're funding Israel. And that's why we, as distinct from everything else that happens in the world, we have to put a spotlight on this because we Americans are complicit in everything that Israel does. And so that, by the way, Yossi is his justification for the obsession. And it's again, the Jews, you know, Yossi, we're going to get into the details of the articles. I know my people aren't evil people. I know my people do. I think rape could happen. I have no doubt that in a prison system with such a disparity of power, where abuse is tolerated in the context of an enemy that you're in an existential war with, of course abuse is going to happen. But the question is, is my statement that abuse is going to happen Whitewashing, like, so I'm stuck. On the one hand, I don't know how to defend myself. I know this is not my people. I know we haven't been systematically advocating training dogs to rape. Like, I know we're not doing that. I also know that we could tell all the stories we want to tell, and I don't know who's listening. So, like, part of the whole struggle is that we have answers only for those who don't have questions. But for somebody who reads this article and, you know, on the surface, Nicholas Kristoff, he's a serious man, you know, you could disagree. He's not a hater of Israel. He tries to present a moral voice across the globe at various moral crises.
- [12:17]
Yossi Klein Halevi
He's a crusader.
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Daniil Warshavsky
He is a crusader and very emotional.
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Yossi Klein Halevi
So like all of the above journalists who, who are crusaders.
- [12:25]
Daniil Warshavsky
And I hear all that. But, like, I know the minute I start answering, nobody's listening. The minute we try to answer it, the minute we say, like, my gut instinct after the sense of a whole saying, I'm not talking about whether there has been rape, I want to talk about that in a minute. Are my people sanctioning systemic rape? Have my people become a terrorist organization? I know or not, but here it is. It's put up against us and there's a sense of, how do we win? You know, it's like, I know I'm not being very Articulate, but my lack of articulation is expressive of. This is.
- [13:10]
Yossi Klein Halevi
It's Dani'.
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Daniil Warshavsky
El.
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Yossi Klein Halevi
It is in itself a form of being articulate.
- [13:16]
Daniil Warshavsky
It's just. It's talking from mourning. So, Yossi, that's our first response, but we know it's not enough, and so let's roll to the second. Do you have a second tiered response?
- [13:29]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Yes. The second is that Ben gvir, who is in charge of the prisons, is capable of atrocities, is capable of encouraging an atmosphere in which atrocities can become part of the system. And when you don't have a break at the top, the opposite. When you have someone who winks at abuse of prisoners. We've seen that already happen. Then my assumption is that there is some truth in this article. And the question is, what does some truth mean? Do I believe that we are training dogs to rape Palestinians? I don't believe that.
- [14:19]
Daniil Warshavsky
That's insane.
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Yossi Klein Halevi
And all I can say is what I believe. That's all we can say at this moment. We don't know. My instincts are Ben GVIR is capable of horrific actions and of nurturing an environment in which horrific actions can become the norm. Yes, yes, that's my. We're now on the second tier. Yeah, but don't go to the third yet.
- [14:49]
Daniil Warshavsky
Stay on the second.
- [14:51]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Okay, okay.
- [14:52]
Daniil Warshavsky
You know why, Yossi? We're just unfolding our emotions like an onion.
- [14:56]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Right?
- [14:57]
Daniil Warshavsky
So let the arguments unfold.
- [14:59]
Yossi Klein Halevi
That's all we have. Ben GVIR has already brought a historic disgrace to the good name of the Jewish people. And we're by no means finished with this guy. And it's not only him. If it was only him, it would be easier. The question, though, is when I talk about the possibility of creating an atmosphere in which horrific actions can become normalized, maybe even routine, what do I think those horrific actions can be? Do I believe that there is abuse of prisoners? Absolutely. Do I think that abuse of prisoners increased after October 7th? No question. Do I believe that that abuse, even the systemic abuse, includes systemic rape? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
- [15:59]
Daniil Warshavsky
So let me give you my second stage.
- [16:01]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Yes, but I just want to explain why I once taught a semester. I won't mention the name of the college in America. This was 20 years ago. I opened the course by explaining something of my Israeli background and I mentioned my military service. Young woman raises her hand and says, how do you justify the widespread rape of Palestinian women by Israeli soldiers in the West Bank? I was floored. I didn't know what to say. Finally I said, you know, recently there was a scandal in the Israeli media about a master's thesis that was done at Hebrew University by someone who accused the IDF of racism because there are no examples of rape. And where do you find an army of occupation that doesn't rape? And so the very absence of rape must prove that Israelis are so racist that Israeli men don't even want to have sexual relations, coerced relations with Palestinian women. And so that was my response to her. No one has accused us. Two and a half years of war, we've been accused of everything. Genocide, starvation. No one has accused us of this. Why are we being accused of systematic rape? That coincidentally or not, that's the last argument that Israel still has in its corner, that Hamas started this war through an atrocity of mass rape. Now suddenly the whole accusation has shifted on us. Maybe it's a coincidence, Daniil. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't.
- [17:52]
Daniil Warshavsky
You know, at the second stage, you speak about Bengvir, I speak about October 7th because both of us know that Benvir is not alone. You even said that Yossi Benvir has moved from pre October 7th, where he didn't even pass the threshold and he could only get into the Knesset if he was linked with the Religious Zionist party. That's going to go down in history as one of Netanyahu's greatest sins. Greatest sins. The mainstreaming of this. But now he pulls 8, 9, 10 seats in the next election. Part of the impulse of October 7th was an eye for an eye. You know, when I read the Bible and it says an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, I always found it insane. Like, who would want to take out somebody's tooth because they took out your tooth? Or who'd want to take out somebody's eye because they took out your eye? How does that help you? And that's why the rabbinic tradition throws it out and says an eye for an eye is the financial equivalent of it, because that'll help you. Just vengeance. After October 7th, all of us felt a desire for vengeance. Most of us and almost all of Israeli society within a few weeks weren't talking that way anymore. And the war in Gaza was not a war of vengeance, it was a war of self defense. But there is a segment of Israeli society for whom the language of vengeance is the appropriate language. Like I heard it when people would say, why should we feed Palestinian Lukba terrorists food? We will give them the same food that our hostages are getting. Or when the Supreme Court justice wanted to know about whether they're losing weight, Israeli society all over Called her a Hamas sympathizer. So my second stage is to believe that some of those people who choose to be guards are subject to a impossible task of having absolute authority and because of the leadership, absolute immunity. And we know that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That I could see that this could be a phenomena. Is it a systematic policy? You know, and it's so interesting when you read the Israel Civil Commission on Hamas rape, how this was done in every site. It's a policy. And what Christoph is doing is he's saying, ah, Israel and Hamas, there's equivalency. So my second stage is to breathe deeply and to say, houston, we have a problem. Is it the article? No. But I also know, and this leads us to the third stage. I know the Israeli response is going to be anti Semitic tropes, everything. When we know in Israel there were these nine jailers, the hospital called the authorities and said, we have a man whose rectum is severely ripped and his internal intestines are ripped. And that doesn't happen when somebody is being restrained. It only happens when something significant is inserted in a person's rectum. And we know the outcry of silencing it. And Netanyahu called it a blood libel. And when the soldiers were exonerated on a technicality because the man was released to Gaza. And you can't accuse somebody if there's nobody there to testify. But you saw the Israel Defense. It's like they're accusing us. They're accusing us, they're accusing us at the second stage, just like you. This is not my people. But are some of my people capable of this?
- [22:15]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Yes, of course. Of course. And I think, Daniil, the key word is what you touched on before, which is systematic. Is there widespread abuse? Yes. Has there been systematic abuse? I wouldn't rule that out. Systematic rape. That's taking us to a whole different level, which is not part. It's not even part of the Israeli culture of vengeance.
- [22:40]
Daniil Warshavsky
No, it's not even. It goes further. It's barbarism. There's a level of barbarism. In many ways. Rape is even worse than murder. It's like, so I'm sorry, Continue.
- [22:50]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Dani'.
- [22:50]
Daniil Warshavsky
El.
- [22:51]
Yossi Klein Halevi
2 and a half years of war in Gaza and there is an acidic instance of accusation. And you know, vengeance does not work well with a systematic policy. Vengeance is an emotional expression. It's almost a spontaneous outburst. And we're being accused here of systematizing vengeance and doing so through a crime that has never been part of The Israeli culture of vengeance. We can be accused of many things and we're being accused of absolutely everything. But this, this, to me, this is October 7th, denialism at play. That's what I do. Especially Antonia. One last thing. Especially when you look at the sources that Christophe depended on, how closely did he examine these sources? And the Times record on accuracy on these issues is very iffy. The Times photographer just won the Pulitzer Prize and part of his work was documenting supposed starvation. And he used children who had pre existing medical conditions as examples of widespread starvation. And the Times didn't tell us that.
- [24:19]
Daniil Warshavsky
So, Yossi, here comes to the third stage, and I want to challenge you. As I'm hearing you speak, it could be you're 100% right, it's not going to be effective. You know, this type of argument against Kristoff is a perfect argument for those who reject Christoph.
- [24:38]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Okay.
- [24:38]
Daniil Warshavsky
But I'm not saying you're wrong. So now my question is, this is the third stage, our third and final stage, unless we think of a fourth. Our third stage, Yossi, is so what do we do? Because I got to tell you, Yossi, that last analysis is not going to help. He's not going to help us.
- [24:56]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Yeah. The question is, in terms of what we're going to do, I think there are several stages. The first stage is what do I tell myself? How do I process this? And that's what we've been trying to do. The second stage is what do we tell ourselves collectively as a Jewish people? Only then do we think about the third stage is what do we say to the world? We're not there yet. I don't feel we're there yet, Daniil.
- [25:29]
Daniil Warshavsky
So tell me, tell me the stages. Play them out a little bit, Jess.
- [25:33]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Okay. The first stage is you and I talking and other Jews talking and trying to figure out among themselves, where does this hit me emotionally? And then what do I think think might have happened and what do I think might not have happened? Because again, we don't know anything definitive. And based on what we know from precedent, what we know about ourselves, good and bad. And I think we've tried to play that out. That's the stage of really trying to work this out. But that's a very internal process before we really start thinking about what do we have to say either in defense or in confession, whatever, whatever mode we decide as a community to assume. And of course, different parts of the community will take different emotional positions on this. Look, I was talking to our friend Jeremy Liebler. I don't Think Jeremy would mind my quoting him? Jeremy is really, I think, one of the best leaders that the Diaspora has today. And he's one of the heads of the Australian Jewish community, the Australian Zionist Federation, and he gave testimony recently to the Australian Commission on Antisemitism. And he said to me, you know, I just feel so exhausted. And he says, you know, sometimes you just wake up in the morning and you say, I'm going to have to face a whole barrage of accusations. I'm going to have to sift through. This is false, this may be half true, and it's endless. And we've been dealing with this for almost 3 years just on that level. Danillo, we are an exhausted people and we're exhausted from dealing and having to sift through the lies, from the truth. And what do we own? What do we atone for? What do we push back on? What do we enrage about? Who are we angry against? Are we angry at ourselves? Are we angry at the New York Times? You know, I hate being angry at the New York Times. You know, I'm a journalist in my soul. I was a journalist for 30 years and, you know, I used to make fun of the Jews who were boycotting the Times. I remember there was this one rabbi who called for a boycott of the Times, and then it turned out he was secretly buying the Times every day because he couldn't be without it, but he wanted other Jews. The boycott the Times. So I'm not a boycotter, certainly not of media. So I don't know who to be angry at anymore. And it's Jeremy's exhaustion that I'm feeling today.
- [28:21]
Daniil Warshavsky
I like your distinction. It's helpful to me. The distinction between the public at the first step is about ourselves, but I actually think they're linked. You'll see. And in the first step, which is an internal conversation, there is a dance that we have to make. It's like dancing between the raindrops. And you're never going to get out unscathed. I think the first stage is we have to reclaim a place for Israel amongst the moral nations of the world. And we have to ask ourselves, what have we done to undermine that? Now for the anti Semites and the fools and this I have no answer. No one's going to convince they hated us before October 7th. They'll just collect whatever they could and they'll read Christoph's article and just bank it as oops. Now I have more to speak about, you know, more things to do. I could see Tucker Carlson, like when he accused why did America bomb the school and kill 120 people? Because Israel gave them the coordinates. You know, okay, so he's just going to collect whatever crap somebody says. Verified, unverified, it assume it is a fact. That's a given. But the second stage, and this is now we're at the third stage of our own reflection. Very often in this environment of attacking, we just go too far. And we start by trying to factually deny the legitimacy of every attack instead of trying to start by a story of our own decency. And a story of your own decency is not just something you tell, it's something you do. And paradoxically, by denying this completely, by attacking, calling them all anti Semites in the New York. To all of it, the libels, we're actually further undermining our credibility as a moral people. And this is where we're stuck. Because I don't want to give credibility to the New York Times and I don't want to let the anti Semitic false accusations define me. But right now, we are not telling a story about ourselves that's demanding moral excellence. Like last week, it was a lifetime ago when I quoted the chief of staff of the Israeli army, bringing a moral conversation into the discourse. These are the things we need to have. Political leaders, religious leaders, not responding to Kristof, but responding to things that we know that we're doing. We have to talk and demand a moral excellence from our people in the midst of a very troubling time. We need to start, Yossi, as you said, to do it for ourselves. Who are we? We can't let the fact that there are accusations out there shut down our moral aspirations. That's the source of Ben Gvir's strength, his popularity. Are those people are saying no. You know, we get letters. Don't say that you're siding with the anti Semite. Don't talk, don't talk, don't talk. Just shh. It's like everybody wants shh. Not now, not now. It's. Jewish life is too precarious. Shh. But the showing, the silencing is what's leading to the idealizing of the Benrier position.
- [32:01]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Okay, Danielle, what you're saying is an important part of this conversation, but it's only one piece. The other piece is we need to give space to our rage and our grief.
- [32:16]
Daniil Warshavsky
Fair enough.
- [32:17]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Daniil. We are in, I feel personally, and I think many Jews feel this. We're in a grieving process. Yes. October 7th. But in specifically in response to this level of accusation, you know, we Forcibly starved Gaza, we committed genocide, and now we're systematically raping. So the first stage of grief is acknowledging the grief, acknowledging that. I just can't take this anymore. I just can't take the abuse to which the Jewish people is being subjected.
- [32:55]
Daniil Warshavsky
I'm with you.
- [32:55]
Yossi Klein Halevi
You. Okay. That's the first stage of grief, and that's what we've actually been modeling in this conversation. We started there, and we're ending with what you just said, and I think that's a really important progression. But my first response to Christoph is, what did we do to earn your disgust with us? No, that's not my first response, Yossi,
- [33:20]
Daniil Warshavsky
but I didn't say it as here.
- [33:22]
Yossi Klein Halevi
No, I know, I know.
- [33:24]
Daniil Warshavsky
So you're trying to protect me from the audience. I'm with you, but you'll see. I'm saying I appreciate that and I thank you. And we have each other's back, but, like, we have to stop it. We did this. Of course the first response is grief. But at some point, and here I want to go one step beyond what you said beforehand. This internal reflection. This is not just what we have to do for ourselves. Of course we have to grieve. Of course we do. And we have a right to. But we have to recognize and rage. But we have to understand that the grief and rage is not going to help us when we come to people on the outside.
- [34:06]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Yes.
- [34:06]
Daniil Warshavsky
It's also not going to help us if that's where we stay for too long. Because I think we've been grieving and raging after October 7th now for. For three years. And it's stuff is happening. Forget it's not systematic and forget the art. Things are happening under our watch that shouldn't be happening, and we aren't calling it out. But even more than that, you'll see, not only do we have to do this for ourselves, we are not going to be able to reclaim our friends in the world unless they see we doing this.
- [34:44]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Agreed. So many people say agree.
- [34:47]
Daniil Warshavsky
So many people say, do it privately, don't do it publicly. There's no such thing as private and public. If we act this way with authenticity privately, not because of a PR shtick, but if we start really trying to root out abuse, saying, this is, you know, I'm not going to be the most perfect people, but this is not who we are. Just like our chief of staff tried to do, and which our government is not doing at all. All they're doing is saying, because we were victimized, we're the most moral people. You're anti Semite. Shut up. I don't want to talk to you. That is causing moral decay amongst us and it's destroying our credibility in the world. They have to see us doing private, personal introspection. Yossi, last words for today.
- [35:45]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Now I come back to something that I've said in our conversations in the past, which is that we need to develop two languages on Israel simultaneously. We need a language that pushes back against the outrageous accusations and we need a language that reflects on, as you put it, how did we maneuver ourselves into this position where we're so vulnerable to this campaign of lies? And that really requires a complicated linguistic maneuvering, which is very difficult when you're under assault. But we have no choice. We have no choice. And here I so much appreciate what you've said and so much appreciate being in conversation with you because you've helped me at least speak about this. I wasn't sure when we decided literally 10 minutes before this podcast that this is the topic we should do. I wasn't sure if I had the words for it. So thank you, Daniil Yossi.
- [36:48]
Daniil Warshavsky
That's where we're going to end. I need to go back and mourn right now. I need to go back and mourn with our people. And, you know, I just want to give a hug to the Jewish people right now. I just want to hug us. I learned on this trip that there's three stages. There's hugging, helping, and healing. We just need to hug each other. And unfortunately, we don't have the luxury to stay in hugging too long. And I hope for some of the audience our words were both hugging. I don't know if they're healing, but maybe they're helping. And maybe we could all find a way to begin to tell our story again. A story that we love and a story that has a place and that deserves to be respected. So yos back to mourning and I love you. Thank you.
- [37:40]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Love you too. Hugging you.
- [37:44]
Daniel Goodman
What if prayer doesn't work? This question strikes us as a distinctly modern one, an outgrowth of the slow disenchantment of the world. But in truth, the question is an old one and one given space to breathe.
- [37:58]
Narrator/Announcer
Here from the Shalom Hartman Institute, Thoughts and Prayers is an award winning podcast that explores what Jewish prayer means and why it still matters. Join host Rabbi Jessica Fisher as she weaves together stories, classic texts and conversations with leading rabbis and thinkers like Yossi Klein.
- [38:14]
Yossi Klein Halevi
Halevi Judaism is about the democratization of the spiritual of revelation.
- [38:19]
Narrator/Announcer
Rabbi Lauren Holtzblatt.
- [38:20]
Yossi Klein Halevi
I was representing second Gentleman Emhoff as his rabbi on that stage. What you had in that moment was
- [38:26]
Narrator/Announcer
the pluralism of America and Rabbi Josh
- [38:29]
Daniil Warshavsky
Warshavsky Prayer helps me be the best version of myself. It helps me figure out what do I need in my spiritual backpack.
- [38:36]
Narrator/Announcer
Thoughts and prayers inspiring new connections to Jewish prayer in a changing world. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:43]
Here are some other things that are happening at the Shalom Hartman Institute. Our Kogod Research center has released a new white paper, Building Communities of Jewish Identity, Conversion, Intermarriage and Adjacency by KRC Senior Fellow Christine Hayes. The paper examines how Jewish sources approach questions of identity and belonging, particularly in moments of challenge. You can read the white paper and listen to or watch related Hartman content at the link in the show Notes
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Daniel Goodman
For Heaven's Sake is a product of the Shalom Hartman Institute and ARC Media. It is produced by me, Daniel Goodman, with help from Miriam Jacobs, Adar Taylor Schechter, and Aviva Katmanaur, and studio support from Go Live Media. Our episode was edited by Seth Stein, Natal Friedman is our executive producer and our music was composed by Yubal Sama. Past episodes can be found@arcmedia.org where you can explore more of Arc Media's podcasts. You can watch the video versions of our episodes on our YouTube channel. Follow the YouTube link in the Show Notes. Also, to receive updates on new episodes, please follow the link to arcmedia.org and subscribe to Arc Media's weekly newsletter. For more ideas from the Shalom Hartman Institute, visit our website@shalomhartman.org.