Podcast Summary: For Heaven's Sake – "Judea and Samaria: The Conversation Israel Isn't Having"

Release Date: August 6, 2025

Introduction

In this profound and timely episode of For Heaven's Sake, hosted by the Shalom Hartman Institute and Ark Media, Daniel Goodman, producer of the podcast, engages in a deep conversation with Ronit Haid, Vice President and Director of the Center for Israeli and Jewish Identity, alongside Yossi Klein Halevi, Senior Fellow at the Hartman Institute. Recorded live in Jerusalem amidst the turbulent backdrop of the Israel-Iran war, the episode delves into the complex and often unspoken issues surrounding Judea and Samaria, also known as the West Bank or the Occupied Territories.

Terminology and Political Statements

The discussion opens with Ronit Haid emphasizing the significance of terminology in shaping perceptions and political realities. She states, “By saying Judea and Samaria, we not only refer to a geographical area but also make a political statement about ownership and national identity” (01:30).

Yossi Klein Halevi reinforces this by asserting his stance on the terminology, distinguishing his position by avoiding the term "occupied territories." “I don't believe that the Jewish people are occupiers in any part of this land, regardless of what the political outcome will be” (05:28). This choice of words underscores the deep-seated historical and emotional connections that influence Israeli perspectives on the region.

Current Situation and Settler Violence

The conversation shifts to the alarming rise in settler violence within Judea and Samaria. Yossi articulates, “The violence is implicating all of us. It’s sullying the state of Israel and dragging us into a moral abyss” (07:22). He highlights recent incidents where violent settlers attacked Israeli soldiers, prompting a visceral reaction even within the right-wing government. However, he points out a glaring omission in the government's response: “What was not said was the problem of hilltop youth burning Palestinian villages wasn’t mentioned” (07:32).

Daniel Goodman adds that this violence is no longer confined to fringe elements but is becoming more mainstream, fueled by political patronage and societal acceptance. “These settler groups are funded by Jews around the world,” he notes, emphasizing the global implications of local actions (33:35).

Moral and Ethical Implications

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the moral responsibilities of Israel regarding its policies in Judea and Samaria. Daniel Goodman passionately argues, “We might not be occupying a land, but we are occupying another people. There is a people here who haven’t, don’t have access to sovereignty and freedom the way we do” (08:38). This sentiment reflects a growing awareness and concern within Israeli society about the ethical dimensions of their territorial policies.

Yossi echoes this by expressing his internal conflict and frustration with the lack of progress over decades. “I feel like I’m going in circles. And meanwhile, those who know the answer... are pushing us very strongly in the direction of a binational state” (26:00). This highlights the enduring struggle to reconcile national security with moral imperatives.

The Role of International Perception

The episode underscores the importance of how Israel is perceived globally, especially in light of recent conflicts. Daniel Goodman asserts, “Israel’s morality is now on the table, as it should be, because our job is to make sure that we fight just wars justly and that justice and morality are integral” (12:34). He stresses that maintaining a strong moral standing is crucial not just for public relations but for the very soul and identity of the Israeli people.

Internal Political Dynamics and Future Elections

As the conversation progresses, the focus shifts to Israel's internal politics and the impending elections. Yossi reflects on the unpredictability and volatility of Israeli politics, mentioning, “A year in Israel at this moment seems like an eternity” (42:40). He predicts potential shifts in leadership, particularly the possible return of Naftali Bennett, and discusses the challenges posed by Netanyahu's alignment with Trump, which he believes could harm Israeli sovereignty in the long run.

Daniel Goodman adds depth to this analysis by discussing the conflicting trends within Israeli society: a right-leaning skepticism towards a two-state solution versus a burgeoning concern for human rights and moral justice. “These two moves are going to determine what possibilities are put forth,” he explains (46:04).

The Role of External Jewry

The dialogue extends to the impact of Jewish communities outside Israel. Daniel Goodman emphasizes the responsibility of global Jewry in shaping Israel’s future by advocating for clear policies and supporting ethical leadership. “World Jewry is our partner in building Israel... You too talk. Talk about the Israel you want” (37:42). He calls for active participation beyond mere criticism, urging external Jewish communities to contribute constructively to political and social dialogues.

Changing Relationships and Future Conversations

Addressing the strained relationships stemming from recent conflicts, the hosts discuss the necessity of redefining how Israelis perceive and interact with Palestinians. Daniel Goodman poignantly remarks, “If 70 or 80% of Palestinians in the west bank or Judea and Samaria feel that October 7th was a great day, not only do we have to ask ourselves what do we have to do?” (50:16). He underscores the imperative for both societies to engage in honest, transformative conversations to move beyond entrenched hostilities.

Yossi offers a glimpse of hope by sharing his evolved approach to dialogue post-October 7th. “What changed for me after October 7th... I begin with my narrative. Because of what you said, the denial of our story has become so overwhelming” (53:27). This shift signifies a readiness to assert Israeli experiences and traumas while remaining open to listening.

Participant Insights and Conclusions

The episode concludes with reflections on the urgent need for internal dialogue and policy reform. Daniel advocates for comprehensive discussions on what justice requires and the necessity of reevaluating settlement policies to enable future resolutions. “We have to ask ourselves not just how do we attack violence of settler youth... but also what does justice require” (35:39).

Yossi echoes the call for public response, stating, “I’m ready for the first time to demonstrate against policies in Judea and Samaria. And that’s something that I never crossed that line” (35:39). This marks a pivotal moment where even traditionally disengaged voices are stepping forward to challenge prevailing policies.

Q&A and Final Thoughts

In the concluding segments, the hosts address questions from participants, touching upon the fluidity of current Israeli politics, the unpredictable nature of upcoming elections, and the ramifications of Netanyahu’s relationship with Trump on Israeli sovereignty. Yossi provides a sober assessment of the political landscape, acknowledging the likelihood of significant shifts but admitting uncertainty due to the volatile environment (43:32).

Finally, Daniel Goodman raises a crucial question about re-examining Israeli-Palestinian relations, emphasizing the need for both societies to recognize each other's claims to the land and humanity. He asserts, “We have to recognize that all human beings are created in the image of God... What do you want to build? How do you look at Israel?” (50:16).

Conclusion

This episode of For Heaven's Sake serves as a critical examination of the enduring and evolving challenges in Judea and Samaria. Through heartfelt dialogue, it underscores the importance of terminology, moral responsibility, political will, and the necessity for both internal and external Jewish communities to engage constructively in shaping a just and peaceful future for Israel and its neighbors.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “By saying Judea and Samaria, we not only refer to a geographical area but also make a political statement about ownership and national identity” – Ronit Haid (01:30)
• “I don't believe that the Jewish people are occupiers in any part of this land, regardless of what the political outcome will be” – Yossi Klein Halevi (05:28)
• “We might not be occupying a land, but we are occupying another people” – Daniel Goodman (08:38)
• “Israel’s morality is now on the table... it's about the soul and who we want to be as a people” – Daniel Goodman (12:34)
• “World Jewry is our partner in building Israel... You too talk. Talk about the Israel you want” – Daniel Goodman (37:42)
• “We have to recognize that all human beings are created in the image of God... What do you want to build?” – Daniel Goodman (50:16)