For Heaven’s Sake Podcast – “Mamdani” (October 29, 2025)

Hosts: Donniel Hartman (B) and Yossi Klein Halevi (C)
Podcast Overview:
This episode of “For Heaven’s Sake” explores the anxieties within world Jewry—especially American Jews—in the wake of New York mayoral candidate Meir Mamdani’s rise. Against the backdrop of October 7th and its aftermath, the hosts address the moral and communal imperatives of Jewish unity, the pressures on Jewish identity, and the risks posed by the normalization of anti-Israel rhetoric in mainstream politics. The theme revolves around boundaries: what actions or alliances put Jews “outside the camp,” and how should the Jewish community—both in Israel and the Diaspora—respond?

Main Theme

Confronting Jewish Unity and Anxiety Amid Political Shifts
The episode centers on Jewish reactions to the NYC mayoral candidacy of Meir Mamdani, who’s associated with anti-Israel rhetoric and actions perceived as making Jewish students on campus “pariahs.” Hosts Donniel and Yossi explore the emotional, moral, and historical resonance of this moment for Jews in America and Israel, paralleling previous threats—such as Jeremy Corbyn in Britain—while wrestling with the dangers of community litmus-testing and the responsibilities of Jewish leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Moral Outrage at Anti-Israel Statements (00:10–01:52)

• Donniel frames condemnation of Israel on October 8th, especially suggesting Israel “deserved” October 7, as a sign of “moral corruption.”
  • Quote: “If that's where you are, there is a moral corruption that has entered into your soul. For me, this is moral corruption.” (B, 00:15)
• The hosts debate the moral and psychological impact of public statements that ignore or delegitimize Jewish suffering post-October 7th.

2. Jewish Security and Identity in New York (01:52–06:58)

• Discusses body returns by Hamas as a metaphor for ongoing trauma and manipulation; broadens into concerns about global Jewish safety and unity.
• Yossi shares his personal connection to New York and expresses deep anxiety over what the candidacy of Mamdani means for Jews.
  • Quote: “The notion that New York is about to elect as mayor someone who represents the camp that turned Jewish students on campus into pariahs is such a profound violation. It's a kind of a chorban, Donniel. It's a kind of destruction. I feel it viscerally.” (C, 00:26; repeated in expanded form, 08:22)

3. The Role and Risks of “Jewish Unity” Rallying Cries (08:40–12:03)

• Donniel expresses unease about communal “moment of crisis” appeals, which often lead to divisive litmus tests (“good Jew, bad Jew” dynamics) and alienate those who see themselves as “shunned” or on the margins.
  • Quote: “These moments always make me very nervous because, you know, as somebody who has very often been shunned in...life by parts of the Jewish community...I hate these moments.” (B, 11:15)

4. Boundaries of Communal Belonging and Moral Red Lines (12:10–15:50)

• The hosts differentiate between necessary intra-Jewish criticism and alliances/endorsements that cross a line—especially when they deny Jewish suffering or align with those vilifying Israel to an extreme degree.
• Donniel reasserts: condemning Israel on October 8th is out of bounds, equating it to “moral corruption.”
  • Quote: “When you condemned Israel on October 8th. On October 8th, basically saying we deserved October 7th, if that's where you are, there is a moral corruption that has entered into your soul.” (B, 13:01)

5. Rabbinic Leadership and Community Divisions (15:50–22:04)

• Yossi distinguishes between rabbis choosing not to sign anti-Mamdani public letters (respecting their need to keep communities undivided) and those actively supporting Mamdani, which he sees as a breakdown of communal responsibility:
  • Quote: “Rabbis for Mamdani. For me, I feel like we have no common language. I don't even know what to say anymore. It's such a violation.” (C, 17:19)
• They reference Maimonides’ mishumad category—the one who removes themselves from communal mourning and joy—suggesting this is how certain actions can make one “beyond the pale” without losing Jewish status.

6. Historical Parallels: Jeremy Corbyn and British Jewry (25:39–28:21)

• Yossi draws a direct analogy between Mamdani and Jeremy Corbyn, noting how Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour Party opened the door to mainstream anti-Semitic tropes under cover of anti-Zionist rhetoric.
  • Quote: “What Corbyn did, it was irrelevant whether Corbyn was an anti Semite, which he was. But what Corbyn did was two things. First of all, he was a kind of a doorway through which real, genuine anti Semites entered the British mainstream.” (C, 27:21)
• The need for unified, public Jewish response in the face of such candidacies.

7. The ‘Conditionality’ of American Jewish Belonging (32:07–34:42)

• Yossi recalls the “American Jewish whisper,” describing how Jews often felt conditionally accepted—forced to downplay their identity in public. He fears that the normalization of anti-Israel, anti-Zionist sentiment is reviving this sense of precariousness.
  • Quote: “What progressive anti Zionists have been telling Jews, young Jews especially in progressive spaces, is we have no problem accepting you...on condition that you repudiate that problematic part of your identity...as soon as you introduce the idea that there's something in Jewishness that's problematic...you're reintroducing the conditionality that I grew up with.” (C, 33:32)

8. The “Own Goal” and Dangers of Political Short-Sightedness (31:15–32:11)

• The hosts explore the concept of Jews backing Mamdani as an “own goal”—a self-inflicted injury—emphasizing that accommodating hostile political camps for the sake of other (e.g., anti-Trump) priorities may ultimately fuel Jewish anxiety and marginalization.

9. Responsibility of Israel to World Jewry (34:51–37:20)

• Donniel underscores that Israel's actions profoundly impact Diaspora Jews, and calls for Israeli self-reflection about its global impact. He advocates for efforts to “detoxify” Israel’s image and policies:
  • Quote: “Israel’s toxic. How do we detoxify it? How do we rehabilitate? This is a wakeup call...if we're losing New York, there's something that we have to look at in our own behavior and in our own souls, in our own policies.” (B, 36:26)

10. Fractured Trust Within the Jewish People (37:20–41:26)

• Yossi shares his sense of “shattering of trust” with parts of progressive American Jewry; grapples with the emotional gravity of the situation.
  • Quote: “I feel that progressive American Jews are losing me. And this is a moment that I'm experiencing as a shattering of trust.” (C, 37:23)
• Donniel appeals for dialogue rather than rupture, even as he denounces certain actions and ideologies—advocating not to “walk out of the relationship” with fellow Jews:
  • Quote: “I just don't walk away from Jews. And by adding the Trump factor and the Gaza factor doesn't excuse it...But still, once I understand...there's room for me, because I just don't like to break with Jews.” (B, 39:16)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Moral corruption over Israel condemnation:
  “When you condemned Israel on October 8th...there is a moral corruption that has entered into your soul.”
  — Donniel (B), 00:15 and 13:01

• Describing the candidacy as ‘Chorban’ (destruction):
  “The notion that New York is about to elect as mayor someone who represents the camp that turned Jewish students on campus into pariahs is such a profound violation. It’s a kind of a chorban, Donniel. It’s a kind of destruction. I feel it viscerally.”
  — Yossi (C), 00:26 and 08:22

• Litmus tests and Jewish unity:
  “The good Jew, bad Jew thing always scares me. And I never feel comfortable.”
  — Donniel (B), 11:15

• Boundary categories: the ‘mishumad’:
  “If there's a Jew who keeps all of Jewish law...but they don't mourn when the Jewish people mourn, and they don't celebrate when the Jewish people celebrate...this person is beyond the pale.”
  — Donniel (B), 21:32

• Comparing to Corbyn:
  “What Corbyn did was two things...he was a kind of a doorway through which real, genuine anti Semites entered the British mainstream.”
  — Yossi (C), 27:21

• Conditionality of Jewish belonging:
  “As soon as you introduce the idea that there’s something in Jewishness that’s problematic...you’re reintroducing the conditionality that I grew up with.”
  — Yossi (C), 33:32

• On not walking away from Jews:
  “I just don’t walk away from Jews...I just don’t want to do it.”
  — Donniel (B), 39:16

• Critique works both ways:
  “I want American Jews to understand that the critique works both ways. And I not only believe that American Jews have the right, I believe they have the responsibility to critique us if we’re really one family.”
  — Yossi (C), 39:52

Important Timestamps

• 00:10–01:52 – Moral boundaries after October 7/8
• 06:20–10:13 – Yossi’s personal connection to New York and the emotional resonance
• 11:15–12:10 – Aversion to unity litmus tests
• 13:01–14:20 – Condemning Israel as ‘moral abomination’
• 17:02–20:52 – Rabbinic leadership, intra-communal boundaries, and Maimonides
• 25:39–28:21 – Corbyn parallel and British Jewry’s response
• 32:07–34:42 – The “American Jewish whisper” and revival of conditional belonging
• 36:26–37:20 – Calls for Israeli self-reflection, impact on world Jewry
• 37:23–39:16 – Fractured trust with progressive American Jews
• 40:23–41:26 – Final thoughts: criticizing but not rupturing relationships

Episode Tone & Style

The episode balances high-level moral and intellectual analysis with raw emotional honesty. Both hosts oscillate between personal anguish and a call for communal responsibility, using wit (bantering about “own goal” and personal backgrounds), textual references (Maimonides, the Haggadah), and realpolitik concerns.

Conclusion

The “Mamdani” episode is a soul-searching exploration of current Jewish anxieties through the lens of New York politics, post-October 7th trauma, and global Jewish responsibility. The hosts urge against communal rupture, even as they express fear and anger at the new legitimacy afforded to voices they see as hostile. Their final plea is to criticize but not abandon each other, and to recognize how much is at stake as both Israel and American Jewry navigate uncharted, perilous waters.