Podcast Summary: For Heaven’s Sake – "The Latest Scandal"

Date: November 5, 2025
Hosts: Donniel Hartman & Yossi Klein Halevi
Presented by: Shalom Hartman Institute & Ark Media

Episode Overview

This episode delves into a recent scandal in Israeli military and public life: the chief military advocate, Major General Yifat Tomer Yerushalmi, was found to have leaked a video showing IDF military police beating a terrorist in captivity, then lied about her actions. Donniel and Yossi analyze how this event reveals deeper fissures and trends in Israeli society, examining issues of politicization, moral boundaries, accountability, ends vs. means, and the erosion of legitimacy and trust in institutions post-October 7.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: What Happened?

• Incident: A video leaked by Major General Yifat Tomer Yerushalmi showed military police severely beating a terrorist in prison. Medical staff noted injuries inconsistent with subduing a violent prisoner.
• Investigations: Despite IDF’s history of war misconduct investigations, this case was unique—caught on camera, in a non-combat context, with clear evidence.
• Public & Political Reaction: Immediate backlash erupted, especially from the government and right-wing elements, defending the soldiers as “heroes” and maligning the military advocate’s integrity.
  • "[The] government led the charge… as having lost her moral compass, somehow aligning herself with Hamas instead of with the truly righteous and just Israeli soldiers." — Donniel Hartman (03:59)
• Yerushalmi’s Response: In defense of her office, she leaked the video, then lied about it—a criminal act, condemned even by her supporters.

2. The Scandal as a Mirror of Israeli Society

• Hyper-Politicization: Every event becomes a political battlefield, amplified instantly, with sides drawn even before facts are established.
  • "Everything in Israel becomes instantly politicized and amplified, so that the crime… [becomes] a battleground." — Yossi Klein Halevi (06:06)
• Double Moral Crisis: Both sides of the political spectrum face critical moral questions:
  • For the government/right: Has October 7 erased Israel’s self-imposed moral red lines in war and occupation?
  • For the opposition/left: Is it justified to violate legal norms in the name of defending the rule of law and democracy?
  • "Are we now not only not the most moral army in the world, but has morality been excised regardless of what we're doing?" — Yossi Klein Halevi (07:03)

3. Accountability vs. Ends-Justify-the-Means

• Breakdown in Standards: Lax accountability stretches from the top political and military leadership downwards, creating a climate where means are subordinate to ends.
  • "There was no culture of accountability… in a culture of the ends justifying the means, there is no accountability.” — Donniel Hartman (11:30)
• Symmetry in Societal Erosion: Both the government and some opposition actors have, in different ways, deployed any “means necessary” rhetoric to achieve their ends.
• Means vs. Ends Crisis: October 7 shifted public psychology—atrocities so severe that "almost whatever we did, certainly against terrorists, was legitimate." (12:47)

4. Historical Precedent – The Elor Azaria Case

• Hosts recall the 2016 Elor Azaria case—a soldier who killed an incapacitated terrorist. This incident similarly divided Israelis along partisan lines over “whose side” one was on: the Army’s legal code or support for “our boys.”
  • “If anything, October 7th has now amplified that… it may not be possible in this atmosphere to hold soldiers accused of the worst abuses accountable.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (13:27)

5. The Deepening Crisis of Legitimacy and Political Culture

• Homogeneous Government: Discussion of the current government’s unprecedented ideological unity, its frustrations with not fully controlling military and judicial levers, and the perceived need to centralize power.
  • "Shouldn't this whole country… be centralized or put in the hands of people who agree with us?” — Donniel Hartman (15:44)
• Opposition’s Shortcomings: Critique of the opposition’s legitimacy campaign and its failures to engage more of society, illustrated by Benny Gantz’s political collapse.
• Dangerous Public Discourse: Channel 14 (compared to Fox News) and other media reduce complex cases to political footballs, with truth lost amid the noise.

6. Erosion of Trust and Calls for National Reckoning

• Society at a Crossroads: The scandal, and reactions to it, symbolize the corrosion of truth, the courts, and the concept of rule of law across the political spectrum.
  • "To what extent are you willing to just dismantle everything, dismantle truth, dismantle rule of law?" — Donniel Hartman (25:44)
• Need for Healing and New Conversation: The public is “desperate for healing,” but disagreement remains whether that is achievable before new leadership or elections.

7. Notable and Memorable Anecdotes

• Extreme Conspiracies: Yossi describes a Netanyahu supporter blaming the military command for “planning October 7” in order to bring Netanyahu down.
  • “He said, because from the top… they worked with Hamas hand in hand to bring Netanyahu down. They did October 7th.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (27:59)
  • “So I said to him, you know, if that's the case, we're dealing with traitors... He said, 'maybe that's a means too far.'” — (28:59)
• Vision for Political Leadership: Donniel imagines a speech for Netanyahu post-ceasefire, appealing to national unity and promising future elections in a year—a rhetorical gesture highlighting what’s missing from the current public arena.
  • “Just have a year. We need to now rebuild our strength and our unity as a people.” — Donniel Hartman (22:30)

8. Disagreement on “Symmetry”

• The hosts debate whether there’s a true symmetry between government and opposition failings:
  • “But there's no symmetry.” — Yossi (31:27)
  • “It's so interesting. You know, you're very concerned about symmetry… I never think of symmetry.” — Donniel (32:13)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the Moral Crisis Post-October 7:
  • "Does October 7 now erase any moral restrictions which we once regarded as self evident, as part of who we are?" — Yossi Klein Halevi (00:28)
• On Instant Politicization:
  • "Everything in Israel becomes instantly politicized and amplified, so that the crime… if she's found guilty… this was a crime. It wasn't just a mistake, and it certainly can't be excused.” — Yossi Klein Halevi (06:04)
• On Accountability Breakdown:
  • "There was a huge price… from the top down, no one was held accountable because they couldn't hold people accountable… there is no accountability." — Donniel Hartman (10:28)
• On the Means vs. Ends Dilemma:
  • "We have a crisis across the board of a confusion between means and ends in Israeli society." — Yossi Klein Halevi (12:26)
• On Political Culture:
  • "This is the most homogeneous government in Israel’s history… And they came forth and said, I have an ends… the entire power structure should reflect us." — Donniel Hartman (15:05)
• On Public Desperation:
  • "…the coming election is going to be decided on the credibility of the camp, of healing, because the public is desperate for healing." — Yossi Klein Halevi (32:49)

Important Timestamps

• 00:28 – Framing the two moral questions (for government and opposition)
• 03:30–05:00 – Description of scandal, public and government reaction
• 06:04 – Politicization and parties’ responses
• 09:05–12:15 – Breakdown of military and governmental accountability
• 12:26–13:27 – Discussion about crisis of means and ends
• 15:02 – Analysis of the current government’s objectives and frustrations
• 17:46–18:23 – Debate over opposition tactics and legitimacy
• 22:16–22:51 – Imagined speech: a plea for national unity
• 24:37–25:37 – Media distortion and collapse of public discourse
• 27:40–28:59 – Anecdote: Netanyahu supporter blaming military for October 7
• 31:27–32:13 – Disagreement over symmetry between opposition and government

Final Reflections

Both hosts agree the scandal is emblematic—a warning sign of the cumulative corrosion in Israeli politics, law, and society. The episode ends on a call for honest reckoning regarding means, ends, and the restoration of public trust and social cohesion, especially as another election looms.

For listeners seeking an entry point into the state of Israeli public morality and the meta-questions confronting its democracy, this episode offers urgent, passionate, and critical debate—with no quick fixes, but a clear-eyed search for answers.