Podcast Summary: "For Heaven’s Sake" – The State of the Israeli Center

Shalom Hartman Institute, December 10, 2025
Hosts: Donniel Hartman & Yossi Klein Halevi

Main Theme

This episode delves into the evolution, character, and current challenges of the Israeli political center. Hosts Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi trace its historical emergence from the traditional left/right divide, focus on how the center has become the default alternative to a diminished left, and examine its moral, strategic, and political dilemmas, especially after October 7 and ahead of looming elections.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Historical Context and the Decline of the Left (00:47–09:46)

• Early Left/Right Divide (Borders & Economy):
  Yossi recounts that pre-state Zionist rifts centered on:

  • Borders (right sought maximalist borders, left accepted partition), and
  • Economy (left: socialist egalitarianism; right: free market capitalism).
    "The Zionist left was always for partition and the Zionist right was always opposed." (Yossi, 04:25)

• Personal Animosity:
  Tensions were deeply personal (Ben Gurion vs. Begin); these persisted until the 1967 war, which reignited territorial debates.

• From Socialism to Peace:
  Over time, the Israeli left abandoned socialism and converged economically with the right, shifting its identity to peace activism, especially after the Lebanon War and Oslo Accords.

2. Transformation after the Oslo Process and Second Intifada (09:46–17:29)

• From “Peace Now” to Disillusionment:
  Donniel highlights how the left’s advocacy for peace also reflected a moral imperative (concern for Palestinian rights and Israeli democracy).
  However, the violence of the Second Intifada and failed Oslo process led to widespread skepticism:

  "The tragedy of the left is first it lost its socialism, then it embraced peace as its new vision...Then comes the second intifada, and now the left loses peace as well." (Yossi, 12:29)

• Emergence of the Center:
  The collapse of peace hopes and distrust of the left’s positions left many seeking a pragmatic “third way” between endless occupation and unattainable peace.
  The center rejects both permanent occupation (left-wing moral stance) and illusions about Palestinian recognition of Israel (right-wing stance).

3. The "Centrist Sensibility" and Sharon’s Legacy (17:29–20:17)

• Ariel Sharon & The Logic of Unilateralism:
  Sharon, once a hardliner, comes to represent a centrist approach with the Gaza “disengagement”—not as a route to peace, but as a means of Israel acting unilaterally amid no viable peace partner and a desire to preserve a Jewish democracy.

  "If you can't occupy for the soul of Israel and you can't make peace for pragmatic reasons, you need to think of a third way." (Yossi, 09:09, repeated at 12:29 for emphasis)

• Shift Away from Morality Toward Pragmatism:
  The center became focused on demographics, security, and maintaining a Jewish majority, with much less concern for Palestinian rights.

  "Palestinian rights, that inheritance of the left, was destroyed in the second intifada." (Donniel, 20:17–23:29)

4. October 7 and the Death of Moral Discourse (23:29–25:12, 27:30–29:38)

• Post-October 7 Attitudes:
  Most Israelis now feel personal and collective security concerns outweigh any moral considerations toward Palestinians, especially after wide Palestinian support for the attacks.

  "Palestinians, the notion that I have moral responsibility to you...just don't talk to me about my moral responsibility to you." (Donniel, 24:12)

• Electoral Strategy and Challenges:

  • The center must distinguish itself from both the discredited old left (peace/Oslo legacy) and the hard right (permanent occupation).
  • For electoral success, the center cannot revive a "moral" Palestinian-rights discourse, but must base its arguments in pragmatic self-interest—demography, diplomacy.
  • Netanyahu’s likely election strategy will be to slander the center as the naïve "Oslo left."

    "The center needs to explain how it is not the Old left. And what Netanyahu is going to try to do...is portray the center...as the peace now left." (Yossi, 25:12)

5. Current Landscape and Identity Crisis (29:38–33:49)

• Moral Discourse Limited to Other Issues:
  While the center avoids Palestinian rights, it is engaged in other moral struggles—rule of law (judicial reform), accountability (commission of inquiry into Oct 7).

• The Search for Vision and Passion:

  • The “just not Netanyahu” slogan is insufficient.
  • There needs to be a positive, forward-looking vision—what does "Jewish democracy" mean?

    "We have to offer some vision of responsibility. And responsibility breaks the dichotomy between just Netanyahu and just not Netanyahu to some vision." (Donniel, 33:49)

• Challenges for the Center:
  The center must reconstruct a mainstream commitment to a liberal, pluralistic, Jewish and democratic Israel; and possibly bring moderate right elements back into consensus.

  "The challenge...is to reestablish the commonality of the mainstream and then to invite those parts of the right...back into a national consensus." (Yossi, 32:04)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the centrist position:
  "The center is looking for balance. The center is that place." (Yossi, 17:29)

• On the shift from morality:
  _"The center becomes a movement...which started to be uncomfortable with moral conversation and with moral imperatives. Don’t give me more. If there is a moral imperative, it's just Israel has to remain a democracy." _ (Donniel, 20:17)

• On Netanyahu's tactics:
  "Netanyahu is going to try to stigmatize the center with that naivete of peace now." (Yossi, 25:12)

• On political passion:
  "Just not Netanyahu is not a passion. And when Bennett says, I just want to heal the country. So maybe the question is whether healing is enough of a passion, whether it has an ideological energy to it." (Donniel, 29:38)

• On the central vision:
  "We don't compromise on security. We don't take chances which will threaten our moral right to exist. We're not going to have peace now. But we look at the future...and say, how does a Jewish democracy respond?" (Donniel, 33:49)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:09 – Yossi defines the original "center" sensibility: seeing truths in both left and right arguments
• 04:25–09:46 – Historical evolution of Israel’s political camps (borders, markets, personalities)
• 12:29–17:29 – Collapse of the left and emergence of center amid the Second Intifada
• 17:29–20:17 – Sharon’s disengagement and the shift to demographic, not moral, arguments
• 20:17–23:29 – Discussion of how Palestinians have become "morally transparent" in centrist thinking
• 23:29–29:38 – The death of moral discourse after October 7; strategic positioning of the center
• 29:38–33:49 – The identity crisis of the center, the need for vision, and redefinition of "Jewish democracy"

Tone & Language

• The dialogue is respectful, searching, and characterized by introspective candor. Both hosts weave personal reflections with broader historical and political insights, often referencing Israeli discourse and using familiar Hebrew/Yiddish terms (e.g., "pasnisht," "Smolani," "boged").
• There’s a somber recognition of the shifting moral ground, a pragmatic approach to political realities, and a call for renewed vision despite the difficulties.