For Heaven's Sake Podcast Episode Summary: "The War is Real"

Podcast Information:

• Title: For Heaven's Sake
• Host/Author: Shalom Hartman Institute
• Episode: The War is Real
• Release Date: June 16, 2025
• Description: Presented by Ark Media and the Shalom Hartman Institute, hosted by Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi, the podcast explores moral aspects of topics affecting Israel, world Jewry, and the future of Zionism through respectful and profound disagreements.

Introduction: Shift in Perception

In the episode titled "The War is Real," hosts Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi delve into the evolving nature of the ongoing conflict in Israel, now entering day four. The title itself signifies a stark transition from the initial surreal and almost mythic fear of an Iranian threat to the harsh reality of active warfare.

Donniel Hartman reflects on the initial days of the conflict, stating:

“When we started to speak about this war on Friday, the first day, there was something unreal about it. There was something, we even used the word surreal.” (00:09)

Historical Parallels: From Surreal to Reality

The conversation draws historical parallels to significant events in Israeli history, highlighting a collective memory that shapes current perceptions.

Yossi Klein Halevi reminisces about the emotions surrounding pivotal moments:

“I think we both remember what the morning of June 5, 1967 felt like. And you can understand the euphoria not only in Israel, throughout the Jewish world...” (05:09)

Donniel Hartman compares the current situation to the Entebbe rescue:

“...emotionally, I think Jews felt that in some ways, like when you speak about Entebbe, I felt that Iran has been holding us hostage.” (06:51)

These references underscore the gravity and emotional weight of the present conflict, juxtaposing past victories and operations with today's ongoing warfare.

The Grim Reality of War: Civilian Impact

As the war progresses, the hosts emphasize the tangible and devastating effects on civilians, moving beyond abstract fears to real-time tragedies.

Donniel Hartman asserts:

“People are dying every night. And Iranian ballistic missiles aren't like Hamas, they're missiles. They're not just vehicles of terror. They actually demolish buildings and blocks.” (03:01)

This stark description shifts the narrative from existential threat to immediate humanitarian crisis, highlighting the indiscriminate nature of missile attacks and their impact on daily life.

Geographical Divide: Differing Experiences Across Israel

The episode explores how geographical locations within Israel experience the war differently, leading to varying levels of anxiety and preparedness.

Yossi Klein Halevi shares personal anecdotes:

“My son was out the other night in the middle of the night, and he saw the missiles flying over Jerusalem. They didn't stop here. They're on their way somewhere else.” (14:18)

Meanwhile, Donniel Hartman discusses the varied climates and security experiences:

“Tel Aviv, Bat Yam, Rishon, Petah Tikva, Haifa. There's a level of destruction we haven't seen beforehand in any of our wars.” (11:XX)

This section underscores the fragmented sense of security and the pervasive fear that exists despite differing regional protections.

Military and Political Strategy: Questions and Concerns

The hosts critically examine Israel's military and political strategies, questioning the efficacy and long-term goals of the current preemptive actions.

Donniel Hartman voices uncertainty:

“My biggest concern, though, right now is that on day one, I was certain that we had a strategy... Do we have the ability to achieve the end that we want to achieve?” (22:15)

Yossi Klein Halevi expands on potential scenarios:

“One, as you laid out, the first goal is the possibility of enticing Trump, which is a non-starter. The second is regime change... The third scenario... Trump will use Israel's military successes to try to get a better deal with Iran.” (26:31)

This dialogue highlights the complexities and potential miscalculations in strategic planning, raising concerns about achievable outcomes and the broader geopolitical ramifications.

Leadership and Government Stability: Critical Evaluation

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the role and effectiveness of Israeli leadership during the conflict, particularly scrutinizing Defense Minister Yisrael Katz.

Donniel Hartman criticizes Katz's approach:

“Yisrael Katz is a very small man, and he is in some ways the embodiment of the small politician... We have to explain what Minister of Defense is for Israeli society.” (19:00)

Yossi Klein Halevi emphasizes the importance of the Minister of Defense role:

“Exactly. You're entrusting the safety of your children. It’s like there's a different rule now that is supposed to apply to you.” (21:04)

The hosts express distrust and concern over the current leadership's capacity to handle the war effectively, questioning whether political motivations are undermining military responsibilities.

International Support and Global Perception: Seeking Allies

The podcast discusses Israel's position on the international stage, seeking support while grappling with global indifference and political isolation.

Yossi Klein Halevi critiques external responses:

“It's like... antisemitism and isolationism and anti-Israelism... in what universe are you living in.” (30:20)

Donniel Hartman highlights the discrepancy in international engagement:

“What's the job of military... to put in place the possibility of a political process... support in many circles around the world is very high.” (29:18)

This segment underscores the frustration with limited and sometimes hostile international support, emphasizing the need for a more robust global coalition.

Emotional and Psychological Impact: Navigating Fear and Resilience

The personal and collective emotional toll of the war is a recurring theme, with the hosts reflecting on resilience amidst fear.

Donniel Hartman describes the nation's mood:

“Something big is happening and something very important is happening and we have to embrace it. But... it's an emotional rollercoaster...” (33:21)

Yossi Klein Halevi acknowledges the historic achievement with gratitude:

“That’s a big deal that we're able to defend ourselves, we're able to recognize the threat and we're able to act on it.” (32:XX)

Their reflections capture the duality of fear and pride, highlighting the psychological resilience required to navigate such turbulent times.

Concluding Thoughts: Historic Achievements and Moving Forward

In wrapping up, the hosts emphasize the significance of Israel's ability to defend itself and the gratitude for overcoming longstanding threats, while remaining aware of ongoing challenges.

Yossi Klein Halevi concludes with a sense of gratitude:

“That's an extraordinary moment and I savor that. Not in an arrogant way, not even in a defiant way, just with this deep sense of gratitude.” (32:XX)

Donniel Hartman echoes the sentiment, recognizing the emotional and strategic complexities that lie ahead:

“It's like, that's not a strategy, that's a prayer. That's an aspiration... I'm with this country, I'm with us.” (26:59)

The episode closes on a note of cautious optimism, balancing historic achievements with the uncertainties of an evolving conflict.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Donniel Hartman: “When we started to speak about this war on Friday, the first day, there was something unreal about it. There was something, we even used the word surreal.” (00:09)

• Yossi Klein Halevi: “I think we both remember what the morning of June 5, 1967 felt like. And you can understand the euphoria not only in Israel, throughout the Jewish world...” (05:09)

• Donniel Hartman: “People are dying every night. And Iranian ballistic missiles aren't like Hamas, they're missiles. They're not just vehicles of terror. They actually demolish buildings and blocks.” (03:01)

• Yossi Klein Halevi: “My son was out the other night in the middle of the night, and he saw the missiles flying over Jerusalem. They didn't stop here. They're on their way somewhere else.” (14:18)

• Donniel Hartman: “My biggest concern, though, right now is that on day one, I was certain that we had a strategy... Do we have the ability to achieve the end that we want to achieve?” (22:15)

• Yossi Klein Halevi: “It's like... antisemitism and isolationism and anti-Israelism... in what universe are you living in.” (30:20)

• Yossi Klein Halevi: “That's an extraordinary moment and I savor that... with this deep sense of gratitude.” (32:XX)

This episode of "For Heaven's Sake" provides a profound exploration of the multifaceted realities of war, blending historical context, personal experiences, and critical analysis of military and political strategies. Through heartfelt dialogue, Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of the current conflict's complexities and its deep emotional resonance within Israeli society.