For Heaven's Sake: Episode Summary – "Waiting"
Host/Authors: Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Podcast: For Heaven’s Sake by Ark Media and the Shalom Hartman Institute
Episode Title: Waiting
Duration: Day 648 of Israel at War
1. Introduction to the Theme: Waiting
In this episode, hosts Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi delve into the pervasive state of anticipation gripping Israeli society amidst ongoing conflict. The theme, aptly titled "Waiting," encapsulates the collective pause as Israel navigates through tumultuous times marked by warfare, political instability, and societal shifts.
Notable Quote:
Donniel Hartman [01:50]: “We want to talk about waiting. What does it look like? We're now waiting to see whether this government is going to fall the haredi draft exemption.”
2. The Gaza Ceasefire and Hostage Negotiations
A significant portion of the discussion centers on the proposed 60-day ceasefire in Gaza, intricately linked to hostage negotiations. The hosts explore the complexities and moral dilemmas embedded in the plan, which entails the return of hostages in stages and the initiation of ceasefire talks.
Key Points:
- 60-Day Ceasefire Proposal: The plan involves a phased return of hostages, with an initial batch of 10 being released immediately, followed by 18 after 60 days, alongside the commencement of ceasefire negotiations.
- Moral Implications: Yossi expresses concerns about the morality of selective hostage release, drawing a parallel to Holocaust-era "slectia" (selection), which evokes deep ethical questions.
- Government Trust Issues: Both hosts express skepticism about the current government's ability to honor its commitments, fearing that compromises might undermine the ethical foundation of Israel’s response.
Notable Quotes:
Yossi Klein Halevi [04:27]: “I don’t trust the prime minister to do the right thing, to do what 75+% of the country desperately wants, which is a hostage deal and an end to the war.”
Donniel Hartman [05:05]: “Nobody's defined as the end of the war is almost messianic.”
3. Analyzing the 60-Day Ceasefire Plan
The hosts dissect the feasibility and potential repercussions of the ceasefire plan, questioning whether the gaps between Israel and Hamas are too vast to bridge through negotiations.
Key Points:
- Hostage Selectivity: Donniel critiques the notion of selecting hostages for release, highlighting the inherent immorality and the anxiety it generates within Israeli society.
- Red Lines and Government Stances: There is a deep concern about whether Israel will adhere to its declared red lines, such as not relinquishing the Morag corridor and establishing humanitarian zones in Gaza. The inconsistency between government declarations and potential actions fuels uncertainty.
Notable Quotes:
Yossi Klein Halevi [07:52]: “It sounds frankly Orwellian to me. To concentrate hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with the stated goal of encouraging them to leave...”
Donniel Hartman [10:12]: “I think the whole idea, and this is what keeps me up at night, is I think it's a farce.”
4. The Role and Influence of Haredi Coalitions
A substantial segment is dedicated to the internal political dynamics involving Haredi (ultra-Orthodox Jewish) parties and their influence on the coalition government. The discussion highlights the tension between security needs and the Haredi community’s demands for draft exemptions and societal validation.
Key Points:
- Draft Exemptions: The Haredi community has long sought exemptions from military service, a demand that has consistently strained coalition stability.
- Shifting Dynamics: The potential exit of Haredi parties from the coalition could precipitate new elections, further destabilizing the political landscape.
- Societal Integration: Yossi and Donniel explore the evolving relationship between Haredi communities and broader Israeli society, emphasizing a need for mutual recognition and validation.
Notable Quotes:
Donniel Hartman [21:10]: “If the Haredim are going to leave the coalition, they will because they have nowhere else better to go.”
Yossi Klein Halevi [23:16]: “What they need is our validation that you're a part, part of the struggle.”
5. Future Elections and Political Uncertainties
The hosts speculate on the potential outcomes of impending elections, considering the fragmentation of the current coalition and the unpredictable strategies of key political figures like Netanyahu.
Key Points:
- Election Timelines: With the current Knesset session nearing its end, the possibility of new elections looms large, likely in the latter half of the year.
- Emerging Political Forces: There's uncertainty about new political entities or shifts that could redefine alliances, especially with figures like Bennett and possibly Bennett's flexibility on Haredi issues.
- Netanyahu’s Tactics: Yossi and Donniel express concerns over Netanyahu's strategic maneuvering to maintain power, often at the cost of coherent policy and ethical governance.
Notable Quotes:
Donniel Hartman [32:40]: “Once we start the fall session of the Knesset, we're at the last year of this government. It's coming to an end.”
Yossi Klein Halevi [33:15]: “Sometimes I feel like my Israeli brain is exploding. There's so much to process, so much pressure, and it's relentless.”
6. Personal Reflections and Emotional Toll
Throughout the episode, both hosts candidly share their personal anxieties and emotional strains stemming from the ongoing conflict and political instability. They acknowledge the relentless pressure and the toll it takes on their well-being.
Key Points:
- Sleeplessness and Anxiety: Yossi mentions sleepless nights caused by concerns over Gaza and government actions, while Donniel relates his personal frustrations with the war's progression and political rhetoric.
- Empathy Towards Haredi Communities: Both hosts express a nuanced understanding of the Haredi community’s motivations, moving beyond stereotypes to recognize their deep-seated desires for recognition and validation within Israeli society.
- Hope for Ceasefire: Despite the bleak outlook, there remains a glimmer of hope among the hosts for a ceasefire that could potentially bring hostages home and prevent further moral degradation.
Notable Quotes:
Yossi Klein Halevi [33:15]: “Sometimes I feel like my Israeli brain is exploding. There's so much to process, so much pressure, and it's relentless.”
Donniel Hartman [16:09]: “Is that a word you're allowed to say on podcasts? They'll cut it out. It's like there's just all this blah, blah.”
7. Conclusion and Forward Look
As the episode draws to a close, Donniel and Yossi emphasize the continued state of waiting and the unpredictable nature of the coming months. They leave listeners with a sense of urgency to stay informed and engaged with the unfolding events.
Notable Quote:
Yossi Klein Halevi [34:47]: “This is for heaven's sake. Israel at war. Day 648. Waiting, waiting and waiting.”
Additional Highlights:
- Promotion of Ilana Steinhein’s Podcast: At the beginning, Donniel highlights Ilana Steinhein’s new podcast, Texting, which explores dilemmas faced by North American Jews through Torah texts.
Notable Quote:
Donniel Hartman [00:11]: “Ilana... the way she reads Jewish texts and learns is just do yourself a favor, check out Texting. It'll be a net benefit for you.”
Final Thoughts
"Waiting" is a profound exploration of the multifaceted challenges facing Israel in times of conflict. Donniel Hartman and Yossi Klein Halevi provide an insightful and heartfelt dialogue that not only dissects political maneuvers and military strategies but also delves deep into the societal and emotional currents shaping Israeli consciousness. Through their candid reflections and critical analysis, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the precarious balance between hope and uncertainty that defines this period in Israeli history.
This summary encapsulates the essence of the "Waiting" episode, providing a structured and detailed overview for those who have not listened to the podcast.