This week Jen and Amy sit down with actress, musician, and author Bethany Joy Lenz to discuss her deeply personal memoir, Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!). Bethany opens up about her experience in a high-control group, known as “The Big House Family” religious cult, the complexities of spiritual abuse, and how she found her way back to faith and autonomy with the help of a One Tree Hill fan. They explore themes of manipulation, resilience, and the power of telling your story.

This raw and inspiring conversation offers hope, clarity, and empowerment for anyone navigating their own path to freedom.

Jen and Amy “Rant or Rave” about New Year’s resolutions and Amy teaches us some creative perspectives to take to feel more successful in this space.

And we reminisce about our favorite shows from the early 2000s. West Wing… the best! Criminal Minds, 24, Gray’s Anatomy, all bingeable. Gilmore Girls, c’mon. And what about One Tree Hill?

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Thought-provoking Quotes:

It doesn’t feel like a courageous act. It’s survival. Courage is when you are fully aware of the dangers that lie ahead – like a fireman, willing to run into a burning building to grab a baby – that’s courage because you know what’s at stake. When you are already in the burning building trying to find your way out, it doesn’t take courage, it’s survival – “find me the exit, how do I get out?” – Bethany Joy Lenz

My faith has evolved into something that is much more connected to my gut which feels much more authentic. I feel a lot more comfortable asking questions and I really value doubt. The truth rises to the top. I think God is capable of communicating with all of us when it’s the right time in the right way. If the gospel shows us anything, it's that God meets us where we are. – Bethany Joy Lenz

I think a lot of Christians live in a space where we think it's very noble to not question God, like we think he’ll love us more, appreciate us more, we’ll be better disciples or believers. But he gave us the brains that we have for a reason. Is he capable of satisfying our intellect or not? So, push the button as hard and as far down as you can. It’ll hold. – Bethany Joy Lenz

God is big enough to hold all of you. There’s nothing that you can present to God that is going to scare him off. He can handle the worst version of you, the angry version of you, the confused version of you. You don’t need other people to hold you. The Bible is full of stories of God one-on-one with someone (Job, Moses, Jesus) so you don’t need to be afraid of being alone with the Lord. – Bethany Joy Lenz

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Paul Teal - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3806295/

Joy’s tribute to Paul Teal - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCf3CtopQt1/

Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While also in an Actual Cult!) - https://www.amazon.com/Dinner-Vampires-Life-While-Actual/dp/1668067307

Drama Queens Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/344eFGlcjmdAUqvWzPJzBk

Tim Keller sermon on Doubt - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/praying-our-doubts/id352660924?i=1000678149013

Modern Vintage News - https://www.modernvintagenews.com/

Guest’s Links:

Joy’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msbethanyjoylenz/

Joy’s Twitter - https://x.com/itsjoylenz

Joy’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BethanyJoyLenz/

Joy’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@msbethanyjoylenz

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

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Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

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Bethany Joy Lenz: Breaking Free, Finding Faith, and Dinner for Vampires