Description:Some conversations are so good, they deserve a second life.

As we've been building out our Chosen Family series — exploring what it actually takes to find, keep, and nurture the people who truly see you — we kept coming back to this tender conversation because it was resonant then but it hits differently now.

Dr. Thema Bryant is a psychologist, author, professor, ordained minister, and former president of the American Psychological Association. Her books Matters of the Heart and Homecoming have resonated deeply with women navigating the beautiful, complicated work of belonging — and her clarity on what it means to truly come home to yourself is exactly the foundation this series needed.

In this conversation, Jen and Amy dig into:

Why midlife can feel isolating even when you're surrounded by people — and what's really going on beneath that loneliness
How to grieve friendships that have run their season while making genuine room for new ones
The difference between performing friendship and actually being emotionally available for it
Why our wellness matters more than our loyalty — and what it looks like to stop sacrificing yourself in the name of showing up for everyone else
Practical tools like writing vows to yourself and how to build community from scratch when one was never ready-made for you

Because here's what we keep coming back to: you cannot truly choose people if you haven't first chosen yourself. This conversation is the starting place.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

When I observe someone making a polite but clear boundary, I respect it. I’m impressed. – Jen Hatmaker
Can you come to the place where you admit, I miss myself? And myself is not my labor. Myself is not my role. Myself is a living soul and one of the things that feeds my soul are my friendships but those got neglected because I was told that to be a good leader or to be a good mom, I had to deprioritize the things that nourished me. – Dr. Thema Bryant
If a community is not ready-made, something for you to join, it’s something for you to create. – Dr. Thema Bryant
Our wellness is more important than our loyalty. – Dr. Thema Bryant
If you have the tendency of picking people who don’t pick you, you’re not emotionally available. If you were emotionally available when there was nothing flowing back to you, you would shift. But if you fear intimacy, closeness, or being seen and known, you will continue to pursue that which is fleeing you, because it is safer. This is true in friendships and romantic relationships. – Dr. Thema Bryant

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Matters of the Heart: Healing Your Relationship with Yourself and Those You Love by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/40XMql6

Homecoming: Overcome Fear and Trauma to Reclaim Your Whole, Authentic Self by Dr. Thema Bryant - https://amzn.to/4hVYQ4c

The Homecoming Podcast with Dr. Thema Bryant - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis

Guest’s Links:

Thema’s website - https://drthema.com/

Thema’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/dr.thema/

Thema’s Twitter - https://x.com/drthema

Thema’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ThemaBryantDavis

Thema’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxpb1ZdNd6M99Fhaw09H81Q

Thema’s Podcast - https://soundcloud.com/dr-thema-bryant-davis

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

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