Where did school uniforms come from?

Summary

Forever Ago: Where Did School Uniforms Come From?
Hosted by American Public Media
Release Date: June 10, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of Forever Ago, Joy Dolo and Hannah delve into the intriguing history of school uniforms. From their medieval origins in England to their adoption in modern-day schools across the globe, the hosts explore how uniforms have evolved and the impact they've had on education and society.

---

Origins of School Uniforms

Medieval England: The Dawn of School Uniforms
The journey of school uniforms begins over 800 years ago in England during the Middle Ages. At this time, education was a privilege reserved primarily for the wealthy, including royalty and landowners. Schools were often run by churches, and uniforms served as a marker of this exclusive education system.

Joy Dolo [09:00]: "The first school uniform we know about is from 800 years ago in England. This was way back at a time called the Middle Ages."

Kappa Clause: The First Uniforms
The Archbishop of Canterbury mandated that all students wear the kappa claus, a term derived from Latin meaning "closed cloak." These cloaks were floor-length with hoods and featured an opening in the front for the hands, resembling a long poncho.

Hannah [09:07]: "Kappa what now? Kappa clause means closed cloak in Latin."

16th Century: The Rise of Modern Uniforms
Fast forward to the mid-1500s, coinciding with the Renaissance and the birth of William Shakespeare. The invention of the printing press democratized education, leading to more practical and distinct school uniforms.

Hannah [10:23]: "This is around the time when playwright William Shakespeare was born, the guy who wrote Romeo and Juliet."

At Christ Hospital Boarding School near London, uniforms evolved to consist of separate clothing pieces with specific colors, such as yellow knee stockings and navy blue coats paired with matching shorts. These uniforms were provided to poor children and orphans, funded by the London community.

Hannah [11:25]: "The school is still around today and the students wear the same uniform. They still wear blue coats and yellow stockings almost 500 years later."

---

Spread of School Uniforms to the United States

19th Century: The Industrial Revolution and Immigration
The concept of school uniforms crossed the Atlantic to the United States in the 1800s, a period marked by the Industrial Revolution. The influx of immigrants, particularly Catholics from Ireland, Italy, and Eastern Europe, sought to establish their own educational institutions to preserve their cultural and religious identities.

Joy Dolo [18:35]: "A lot of these Catholic immigrants didn't feel comfortable at these public schools, so they decided to band together. Catholic immigrants started to make their own Catholic schools where students could be around other kids who shared the same religion and spoke the same language."

Adoption in American Schools
American school uniforms in the 1800s were influenced by military attire, featuring square collars reminiscent of sailor uniforms and navy blue pants paired with white button-down shirts. Over time, uniforms incorporated more colors and different jacket styles. By the 1980s, approximately 20% of American public schools had adopted uniforms, a trend that has continued globally.

Avery Trufelman [21:02]: "School uniforms didn't become more popular in America until the 1800s, just after the Industrial Revolution."

---

Modern-Day School Uniforms

Global Adoption
Today, school uniforms are prevalent in countries like Japan, Australia, and India, with the majority of students in these nations wearing uniforms. In contrast, only about one in five American public schools requires uniforms, though their presence is growing.

Hannah [22:35]: "Just under 20% of American public schools require school uniforms."

Pros and Cons
The debate over school uniforms remains polarized. Proponents argue that uniforms reduce distractions, foster a sense of unity, and simplify morning routines. Some studies suggest that uniforms may improve academic performance and attendance.

Joy Dolo [23:14]: "Some researchers even think uniforms might help kids do better on tests or improve their attendance."

Conversely, critics contend that uniforms stifle individual expression and can be uncomfortable. They argue that uniforms do not significantly impact student behavior and may even be a financial burden for some families.

Joy Dolo [23:29]: "And some people say uniforms make it harder for students to express themselves with their looks."

Listener Feedback

The hosts shared various perspectives from listeners regarding school uniforms:

• Pro-Uniforms:

  • Abigail from Rescue, California: Advocates for uniforms to easily identify class affiliations.
  • Alexander from Olathe, Kansas: Supports uniformity to create equality.

• Against Uniforms:

  • Devrat from India: Prefers comfortable home clothes for school.
  • Shoshi: Finds uniforms uncomfortable and restrictive.
  • Ida: Believes uniforms limit personal expression.
  • Maxine: Highlights the discomfort and impracticality of uniforms, especially in warmer climates.

Joy Dolo [24:55]: "Thanks, Abigail, Devrott, Shoshi, Elliot, Ida, and Maxine for sharing your thoughts."

Personal Experiences with Uniforms

Hannah, a uniformed student, shared her experience:

Hannah [25:06]: "I think I'm fine with them. I don't think they're bad."

She appreciated the simplicity uniforms bring to daily dressing and the reduction in peer pressure related to fashion choices. However, she noted a desire for more comfortable materials and vibrant colors to make uniforms more appealing.

Hannah [25:26]: "You don't have to rush every morning and say, oh, no, what do I wear... Or like, if you want to wear something you want, maybe, like, other people might not make fun of you because you're all wearing the same thing."

---

Fashion Emergency and Game Segment

Adding a playful twist, the episode features a "Fashion Emergency" with Avery Trufelman, a fashion expert, who provides insights into designing podcast host uniforms. Additionally, the hosts engage listeners with a game called "First Things First," where they order the invention dates of three clothing items: neckties, blazers, and penny loafers.

Joy Dolo [29:08]: "So you're right for number one neckties, and then you're also right for number two, for blazers."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up by reiterating the historical significance and continued relevance of school uniforms. Joy and Hannah acknowledge the diverse opinions surrounding uniforms and how they reflect broader societal values and trends in fashion.

Joy Dolo [28:14]: "There are pros and cons to wearing school uniforms. Either way, uniforms and fashion continue to influence each other."

---

Notable Quotes

• Joy Dolo [09:00]: "This was the first known example of a school making students wear a specific kind of clothing."
• Hannah [10:23]: "And clothing for students became a lot more practical than that big old cloak called the Kappa classa, which is a really cool name."
• Avery Trufelman [17:03]: "Hi. Okay, I'm here for the fashion emergency."
• Hannah [25:11]: "Or like, if you want to wear something you want, maybe, like, other people might not make fun of you because you're all wearing the same thing."

---

Final Thoughts

Forever Ago successfully unpacks the rich history of school uniforms, highlighting their origins, evolution, and the varied perspectives surrounding them today. Whether uniformed or not, the discussion underscores the broader themes of identity, equality, and expression within educational environments.

---

This episode was written by Ruby Guthrie, produced and fact-checked by Nico Gonzalez Whistler, and edited by Sandon Totten and Shayla Farzon. Engineering assistance was provided by Victoria Valjarado and Jean Baron, with sound design by Rachel Breese. Original theme music by Mark Sanchez. Special thanks to Avery Trufelman and all contributors who shared their insights.

Transcript

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, for the love of bobbin.

[Molly Bloom]

Joy, whatcha up to?

[Joy Dolo]

Brains on and Smashboom. Best host Molly Bloom. You're exactly the person I need right now. I'm trying out different designs for my ultimate podcast host uniform. So I got out this old sewing machine. Ah, it's jammed again.

[Molly Bloom]

Ultimate podcast host uniform? You mean like a special outfit for hosting podcasts?

[Joy Dolo]

Exactly. I need a signature look. Molly, how do you feel about ruffles?

[Molly Bloom]

You do realize no one can see you on a podcast, right, Joy?

[Joy Dolo]

Yes, but they can hear me. And I sound my best when I look my best.

[Hannah]

Joy, be honest. What do we think about the feather boa? There's magenta, lime green and aqua. Oh, hi, Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi Hannah. I see you're also working on a podcast host uniform. I personally like the aqua colored boa, but the feathers might make me sneeze.

[Hannah]

Oh, good point. That might be distracting on the pod. What about bangle bracelets instead?

[Molly Bloom]

Beautiful but noisy.

[Joy Dolo]

Neon 80s style windbreakers.

[Molly Bloom]

Rad, but too swishy.

[Joy Dolo]

Molly, you're a podcast host. What's your go to podcast host uniform?

[Molly Bloom]

Well, my ideal podcast host uniform is all about comfy boots and a striped turtleneck sweater. Rain or shine, snow or sun, catch me in a turtleneck sweater.

[Hannah]

I admire your commitment, Molly.

[Joy Dolo]

Ugh, it's so hard to decide what my uniform should be.

[Hannah]

Well, we can all agree on one thing, right? The ultimate podcast host accessory.

[Joy Dolo]

Headphones. Yeah. How else are we supposed to hear how good we look?

[Hannah]

Foreign?

[Joy Dolo]

Welcome to Forever Ago from APM Studios. I'm Joy Dolo, and I'm here with Hannah from San Mateo, California.

[Hannah]

Hi, Joy.

[Joy Dolo]

Today we're talking all about the history of uniforms to help us get inspired to make our very own podcast host uniforms.

[Hannah]

Uniforms are a set of clothing that's specific to your work, school or organization.

[Joy Dolo]

They can help tell you what job somebody does or what school they go to.

[Hannah]

If you deliver the mail for the US Postal Service, you wear a blue shirt and pants and carry a special mailbag. That's a uniform.

[Joy Dolo]

If you're a royal guard in the uk, you wear a long sleeve red jacket and a big furry black hat. Also a uniform.

[Hannah]

There are different uniforms for people in the military, which can help show which branch someone serves in.

[Joy Dolo]

And athletes wear special uniforms too, which creates a unifying look for the whole team. And they help people keep track of who's on which team.

[Hannah]

Some schools have uniforms too.

[Joy Dolo]

Uh, Hogwarts, anyone? Wednesday, Princess Diaries, Sailor Moon.

[Hannah]

Those are all examples from TV and movies, but it's true School uniforms give.

[Joy Dolo]

A distinct look to each school and help show which students go to which school.

[Hannah]

It's like everyone is on the same team.

[Joy Dolo]

Plus it means no one has to feel bad at school because they don't have the latest looks. Hannah, you wear a school uniform, right?

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

Nice. Have you always had to wear one?

[Hannah]

Well, we have free dress days sometimes.

[Joy Dolo]

Is it like, is that like one day a week or is it like Fridays and Mondays?

[Hannah]

It's like sometimes we do like donation drives and whichever class gets like the most donation items they can get free dress day maybe.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, a nice incentive. Okay, so I have two questions. One, what is your uniform? What does it look like? And two, when you have, when you get a free dress day, what do you like to wear?

[Hannah]

My school uniform normally looks like a white polo shirt and navy blue pants or maybe black. And I think I like wide bottom pants or like something comfy maybe.

[Joy Dolo]

So when you're at home on the weekends and you're hanging out with your family and you guys go to the park or something, like what do you like to wear when you're just hanging out and lounging?

[Hannah]

Well, kind of like maybe the same like as free dress day or maybe like if we're like playing at the park. But maybe if I'm inside maybe like I to wear pajamas.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. Oh, I love pajamas. I have a onesie pajama that I like to wear that's like it buttons all the way down and it's got long sleeves and then I have like big thick socks that I wear with it too.

[Hannah]

That's cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Hannah, if you could design your dream school uniform, what would it look like?

[Hannah]

Like I think it would like be cool, like maybe like silky with like bright ish color. So it's like not neon but like red hearts or something.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh yeah, red hearts would be cool. Or, or like orange maybe. Like do you like those kind of.

[Hannah]

Bright colors, like warm colors so it's like a sunset.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, I love that. You know, blue and orange is like my favorite combination.

[Hannah]

Oh cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, yeah, that's cool. And silky would be nice on the skin too. Listeners, we asked you to design the school uniform of your dreams and here's what you had to say.

[Hannah]

Hi, my name is Abigail and I live in rescue, California. I like to design my own unifor and I would like it to be have bright orange long sleeve shirt with feathers on the cuff and a bright pink skirt. Hi, my name is Alexander, I am from Olathe, Kansas. My dream school uniform would be a tie dye Shirt with buttons. There would be a shirt pocket, and on the shirt pocket there would be a little bumblebee. But instead of yellow and black stripes, there would be blue and black stripes. Hi, I'm Ellie, and my design for a school uniform will be a light green skirt or pants and a blue and yellow striped shirt with a purple bow. If I could design a school uniform, it would be sort of like a mood ring where it changes color depending on what emotion you're having at that exact moment. For example, if you're feeling happy, it would be green, but if you're feeling angry, it would be red. Hi, my name is Zara. I'm from India, Hyderabad. I wanted the uniform to be a light blue dress that has a rainbow on it.

[Joy Dolo]

Thanks to Abigail, Alexander, Ellie, Nathaniel, and Zara for sending in those awesome uniform design ideas. I'm writing all of this down to help me decide on my podcast host uniform.

[Hannah]

Joy. Have you ever had to wear a school uniform?

[Joy Dolo]

That's a great question, Hannah. You know, I've never had to wear a school uniform, but I can relate to the idea that, like, every day I had to think of something else to wear. And I would get stressed out about it. Cause I'd be like, well, I wore these pants already. I can't wear them again because I wore them on Monday and it's Thursday and I don't know where that came from. It doesn't make any sense. Like, I could have worn the same pants every day and it would have been fine. Cause I do that now and nobody notices. Actually, nobody here knows that I've wore these pants for like two days in a row. But now you all know. And I wish I didn't say that out loud, but no, I've never had to wear a uniform.

[Hannah]

What about other uniforms?

[Joy Dolo]

I used to wear uniforms when I had my regular day jobs. Like, I worked at Red Lobster for a long time, but when I worked there, I had to wear black slacks and a white polo. And I don't know if you know this, but there's lots of, like, greasy food stuff around, so it was really hard to keep that white polo clean. And they don't give you a bunch of them, they only give you one.

[Hannah]

So it's like, my God.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. And then like, sometimes when people came in, you have to, like, take the little lobsters out of the tank and like, show them. It's. It was weird, but I had to do it all in my uniform. So, like, it would always smell like shellf. So I've got a Lot of different uniforms from, like, working in restaurants.

[Hannah]

Did you ever have to wear a cool uniform for an acting role?

[Joy Dolo]

There was one time I did a show where I played a soldier, and I had, like, a soldier uniform, and they even had somebody from the army come in and show us how to do a proper salute so we could, like, look like real soldiers. Yeah. So I guess I've had a lot of uniform experience, just not necessarily in, like, the school context.

[Hannah]

So cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Every uniform has a story, and today we're going to tell the story of the school uniform.

[Hannah]

The first school uniform we know about is from 800 years ago in England.

[Joy Dolo]

This was way back at a time called the Middle Ages. Most people spent their days farming and eating plants instead of going to school. Kids helped with farm work and other chores, too.

[Hannah]

In England, school was mostly for wealthy people, like royalty or people who owned a lot of land.

[Joy Dolo]

Schools were run by churches. Back in the Middle Ages, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who was the leader of the Church of England, had an idea for his students. I, the Archbishop of Canterbury, hereby decree that all students of the church wear a kappa clause.

[Hannah]

Kappa what now? Kappa clause means closed cloak in Latin.

[Joy Dolo]

These cloaks were long, so they went all the way to the floor. They also had hoods. And get this. These early school uniforms were sewn completely closed, except for an opening in the front for the hands.

[Hannah]

Kind of like if you had a really long poncho with a hole in the middle of it for your hands to come out.

[Joy Dolo]

This was the first known example of a school making students wear a specific kind of clothing.

[Hannah]

Flash forward a couple of centuries, to the mid-1500s, toward the end of the Renaissance.

[Joy Dolo]

This is around the time when playwright William Shakespeare was born, the guy who wrote Romeo and Juliet.

[Hannah]

The printing press had been invented, which means more and more people were learning to read and sharing information with each other.

[Joy Dolo]

And clothing for students became a lot more practical than that big old cloak called the Kappa classa, which is a really cool name. This is when the first modern school uniforms popped up.

[Hannah]

It was around 1552. Once again, in England, right.

[Joy Dolo]

These new uniforms started at Christ Hospital Boarding school outside of London. This school was also tied to the Church of England, just like the school that made students wear cloaks.

[Hannah]

But these uniforms were nothing like a cloak.

[Joy Dolo]

They were made up of separate pieces of clothing with distinct colors.

[Hannah]

Yellow knee stockings and long navy blue coats with matching navy shorts underneath.

[Joy Dolo]

The school gave these uniforms to the students who were mostly poor children or orphans. The people of London pitched in to help Pay for the school uniforms too.

[Hannah]

Here's a fun fact. The school is still around today and the students wear the same uniform.

[Joy Dolo]

Yep. They still wear blue coats and yellow stockings almost 500 years later. It's really cool that this look survived all the fashion trends over the years.

[Hannah]

It really has staying power.

[Joy Dolo]

Thank goodness shoulder pads weren't in style in the 1500s. That'd be a tough look to pull off for hundreds of years. Hmm. But they might be just the thing. From my podcast host, uniform, large shoulder pads, question mark.

[Hannah]

Okay, so we know that school uniforms got their start in England starting as far back as the middle ages, and.

[Joy Dolo]

More modern uniforms showed up later in England during the 1550s. Both of these school uniforms had ties to churches.

[Hannah]

So how did uniforms get to the US and why are they at some non religious schools now too?

[Joy Dolo]

Great question. We're going to dive into the answers after the break. But first, let's play first things first. That's the game where we take three items and put them in order from the oldest to most recent in history. Today we've got three clothing items. Penny loafers, which are a type of fancy slip on shoe neckties, and blazers, which are like a suit jacket. Hannah, have you heard of these three things?

[Hannah]

What exactly does like a blazer look like?

[Joy Dolo]

You know, like, like business folks, they have that, like, jacket that goes with the pants. It's like a suit, you know, like a blazer. It's like that top part.

[Hannah]

And neckties. What is that?

[Joy Dolo]

It's like a tie. Like a, like a suit and tie.

[Hannah]

Okay, cool. So I think first is maybe neckties. I mean, like, that seems like an old timey thing that like rich people would wear with padded wigs. Yeah, I don't know. And blazers. So I don't know, that just seems something in the middle that people would wear. Like in the middle.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Hannah]

And penny loafers. Well, it says like a lot of shoe parts and like you have to slip it in.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, well, that's a good question too, because it's like, which came first? Like shoes that you slip on or shoes that you have to tie.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

So right now we have number one as neckties, number two is blazers, and number three, penny loafers.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

All right, we're gonna lock that in. And those are some great guesses. We'll hear the answers at the end.

[Hannah]

Of the show after the credits, so keep listening.

[Joy Dolo]

Hey, forever ago, friends. We love getting your episode ideas and history questions. Hannah, what's something in history you'd like to learn more about?

[Hannah]

I think I want to learn more about architecture. Like how like, skyscrapers came from like old fashioned houses.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. You know, I just read a book about cathedrals and how cathedrals were built. I think that's a great idea. If you all out there have a question about history or an idea for an episode, record it and send it to [e-mail] contact.

[Hannah]

You can also send us fan art.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes. Like a picture of your personal podcast host uniform. Or a picture of of your favorite cathedral or skyscraper. Or a picture of me, Hannah, and my pet elephant, Hermes, stomping down the Runway at the latest fashion show. I can't wait to see what you come up with. Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Forever a goal, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore. It's Alien exercise hour. Hi yah hoo ha. While I stretch my snoodles and bounce.

[Hannah]

On my trampolini, I'll listen to a new podcast. I'm going to try Brains on the.

[Joy Dolo]

Best science podcast ever.

[Hannah]

It's starting.

[Joy Dolo]

Yay. Hello and welcome to Pop Planet, the only show that gets you up close and personal with space. I'm your host, Star.

[Hannah]

Zorp. Come back here. Podcast Must listen to Brains on now.

[Joy Dolo]

Listen to Brains on wherever you get your podcasts, you're listening to Forever Ago. I'm Joy.

[Hannah]

I'm Hannah.

[Joy Dolo]

Before the break, we learned about how school uniforms got their start in England. First in the Middle Ages with long.

[Hannah]

Cloth cloaks, and then again in the mid-1500s with yellow socks and navy jackets at a boarding school outside of London.

[Joy Dolo]

Both of these uniforms came from schools in England that were run by churches.

[Hannah]

So how did school uniforms end up in the US and why are they in some schools that aren't run by churches?

[Joy Dolo]

To help answer that, I called up a fashion expert.

[Avery Trufelman]

Hi. Okay, I'm here for the fashion emergency.

[Joy Dolo]

It's fellow podcast host Avery Trufelman. She's burst through the wall and she's covered in debris, and she's here to save the day.

[Hannah]

Avery hosts a podcast called Articles of Interest, all about what we wear Parents. Check it out. Hi, Avery.

[Avery Trufelman]

Hey, you two. Joy, do you need more stain remover? I thought you'd learned your lesson after the melted chocolate pocket incident of last summer.

[Joy Dolo]

No chocolate pocket here. Actually, this is a fashion history emergency. We're talking all about uniforms today.

[Hannah]

Avery, as a fellow podcast host, what would you say is Your podcast host uniform.

[Avery Trufelman]

Hmm. I kind of like a uniform that sounds almost like what the kids wore outside of London. I like to wear a little blazer. I like to wear a little collared shirt. I don't know, it makes me feel sophisticated.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, yeah. Sophisticated outfit. Yeah, it sounds like you're like that too, Hannah. You got a sophisticated outfit too. I need some sophistication in my life. This is all really great intel for designing my own podcast host uniform. Maybe I'll have like a button down collar and then like a blazer and then like navy blue shoes in honor of Hannah's and then what else is sophisticated? I could have like a white fluffy cat that I pet all the time.

[Avery Trufelman]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Joy Dolo]

And maybe like, you know, a shirt that says I'm sophisticated underneath.

[Avery Trufelman]

That's a great way to be sophisticated. Yes. I love it.

[Joy Dolo]

Sometimes you just have to spell it out for people.

[Avery Trufelman]

You know, big glasses, the thicker they are, the smarter you are. Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

Ah, yes, I read that on the Internet.

[Avery Trufelman]

Mm.

[Hannah]

We've been talking about the history of school uniforms. We know they started in England, but when did people start seeing them in.

[Avery Trufelman]

The US that is a really great question. We don't see school uniforms becoming more popular in the United States until a couple hundred years later in the 1800s, just after the Industrial Revolution.

[Molly Bloom]

Industrial Revolution.

[Joy Dolo]

The Industrial Revolution was this super important period in history when more stuff started being made in factories by machines instead of by hand.

[Avery Trufelman]

Exactly. This meant that there were lots of new jobs in the United States and lots of immigrants moved to the United States to work those jobs.

[Hannah]

Immigrants are people who move from their home country to a new country.

[Avery Trufelman]

Many immigrants were moving to the United States looking for a better life. At the time. Lots of these immigrants were from Ireland, Italy, and Eastern Eastern Europe. But these new people were not always welcomed when they moved to the U.S. in fact, many Americans treated immigrants poorly just because they spoke a different language or had different cultures and religions from their own. Some businesses wouldn't hire them as workers, and sometimes immigrants were mocked in newspapers and cartoons.

[Joy Dolo]

Unfortunately, it's a story we hear again and again throughout history. The treatment of these new immigrants was unfair and wrong.

[Avery Trufelman]

A lot of these immigrants were also Catholic, which wasn't a very popular religion in the United States back then.

[Joy Dolo]

Right. The majority of Americans practiced different types of Christianity and viewed Catholics as really different from themselves.

[Avery Trufelman]

Even some of the public schools were super anti Catholic. A lot of these Catholic immigrants didn't feel comfortable at these public schools, so they decided to band together. Catholic immigrants Started to make their own Catholic schools where students could be around other kids who shared the same religion and spoke the same language, like Irish or Polish or Italian.

[Hannah]

I bet that helped these people feel more at home in their new country. It can be nice to be around people who understand you and your culture, right?

[Avery Trufelman]

And one way to help a group feel even closer is to have a uniform.

[Joy Dolo]

And.

[Avery Trufelman]

And that's what these schools did. They had students wear uniforms to make everyone feel like part of a team.

[Joy Dolo]

So what did these American school uniforms look like back then?

[Avery Trufelman]

Some of these early uniforms were inspired by the military and had square collars, kind of like you'd see on sailors uniforms or Donald Duck, if you remember what he's wearing. This is also when we start to see navy pants or skirts paired with white button down shirts. It's honestly very similar to some of the uniforms we see in schools today.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, maybe my podcast host's uniform should be navy with buttons. So sophisticated. So much to consider.

[Avery Trufelman]

Over time, newer uniforms were made with more colors and different shapes of jackets. By the 1980s, almost 100 years later, some public schools started using uniforms too.

[Hannah]

Like at my school. We're not a religious school, but we still have a uniform.

[Avery Trufelman]

Exactly. And parents, if you want to hear more about school uniforms, I'm doing a whole episode about this on my podcast, Articles of Interest. And Hannah's in it too.

[Hannah]

Yep, and so is my mom. Subscribe to Articles of Interest so you can check it out.

[Joy Dolo]

We'll also add a link to it in the show notes as soon as it's released. Thanks for sharing with us, Avery.

[Avery Trufelman]

My pleasure. Sounds like I'm being summoned for another fashion emergency. Vogue Bulgaria needs to know if beaus are in or not. Gotta blast.

[Hannah]

Bye, Avery.

[Joy Dolo]

Today there are school uniforms in all sorts of schools, whether they're public or private, religious or non religious.

[Hannah]

Just under 20% of American public schools require school uniforms.

[Joy Dolo]

That's about one in every five schools.

[Hannah]

Most American students don't wear a school uniform. But that's not the case in other countries, right?

[Joy Dolo]

In places like Japan, Australia and India, the majority of students wear school uniforms.

[Hannah]

But there's a lot of disagreement about uniforms.

[Joy Dolo]

Ah yes, the age old debate too. Uniform or not to uniform, that is the question. Some studies argue that school uniforms cause less distractions because everyone is wearing the same thing. They can make getting ready for school.

[Hannah]

Much easier too, because you don't have to think about what to wear.

[Joy Dolo]

Some researchers even think uniforms might help kids do better on tests or improve their attendance.

[Hannah]

But other Researchers say uniforms don't really change student behavior at all.

[Joy Dolo]

And some people say uniforms make it harder for students to express themselves with their looks. We wanted to hear what you think, so we asked you what you liked and disliked about school uniforms.

[Hannah]

Hi, I'm Devrat. I live in India and I think kids should have to wear their own comfortable home clothes to school. Hi, my name is Abigail and I live in Rescue, California. I think kids should wear uniforms because they'll know which class they are in. Hi, my name is Shoshi. I think school uniforms should not be allowed because at the school I go to, we have uniforms and they're very uncomfortable. My name is Elliot. I'm from Olathe, Kansas. When I think about school uniforms, I think everybody should wear the same school uniforms. Hi, my name is Ida. I think uniforms shouldn't be allowed because as they don't allow a kid to wear what they like to wear if they don't like what the uniforms, uniform is or looks like. Hello, my name's Maxine and I go to school with uniforms. I am against uniforms because most of the time we're very itchy and if you shop for them in summer, then it's wasting your summer time. You could be playing games like Frisbee.

[Joy Dolo]

Thanks, Abigail Devrott, Shoshi, Elliot, Ida, and Maxine for sharing your thoughts. Hannah, as someone who has always worn a school uniform, how do you feel about them?

[Hannah]

I think I'm fine with them. I don't think they're bad.

[Joy Dolo]

What do you like about wearing a uniform?

[Hannah]

You don't have to, like, rush every morning and say, oh, no, what do I wear?

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, that's what I experienced when I had to figure out my school uniforms.

[Hannah]

Or like, if you want to wear something you want, maybe, like, other people might not make fun of you because you're all wearing the same thing.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. Yeah. Are there things that you don't like about it or that you wish would change?

[Hannah]

Sometimes I think they could be more comfy, like, not too scratchy all the time. Maybe like, a bit more color into it to make it seem, like, cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. Yeah. What color would you pick?

[Hannah]

I don't know, because, like, mine is like, Mandarin immersion. So, like, maybe red. That's what, like, our graduation T shirts are.

[Joy Dolo]

I love red. That's a great color. Well, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Hannah]

Anytime. Oh, joy. Don't tell me you've had another melted chocolate pocket incident.

[Joy Dolo]

I leave loose chocolate chips in my jean pockets one time in the middle of the summer and I never hear the End of it. But no, that's my fashion timer. It means it's time to debut our podcast host uniforms. I finally decided on the perfect fit. Lights, cameras, fashion.

[Hannah]

A fashion show needs some mc. Hit it, Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

First up on the Runway, it's Hannah, wearing her very own podcast host uniform. A polka dot vest with wide leg pants.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes, and yes.

[Hannah]

And don't forget my star hair clips.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Who could forget 10, tens, tens, tens across the board. Next up, it's Joydolo here in her signature pink denim jumpsuit and fresh Converse.

[Joy Dolo]

Peep the Matchin tube socks. They're key to regulating my temperature in those chilly recording studios.

[Molly Bloom]

Sporty, stylin and oh, so practical. And here comes Avery in a pinstripe vest over a crisp button up. And are those earrings made out of wall debris?

[Avery Trufelman]

They're incredibly heavy, but oh so chic.

[Molly Bloom]

And here comes Hermey, the elephant in pleather overalls. So sleek. And is that Gumpy? Joy's sculpture come to life made entirely of chewing gum. And he's wearing gauchos.

[Joy Dolo]

Love it.

[Hannah]

Cool.

[Joy Dolo]

Outs are back, people. Uniforms are specific clothes that show what kind of jewelry, job you do, school you go to, or organization you're a part of.

[Hannah]

The earliest school uniforms date back to schools run by English churches 800 years ago.

[Joy Dolo]

School uniforms didn't become more popular in America until the 1800s, when Catholic immigrants from Europe started their own schools. Now people all over the world wear school uniforms.

[Hannah]

There are pros and cons to wearing school uniforms. Either way, uniforms and fashion continue to influence each other.

[Joy Dolo]

This episode was written by Ruby Guthrie. It was produced and fact checked by Nico Gonzalez Whistler and edited by Sandon Totten and Shayla Farzon. Engineering help from Victoria Valjarado and Jean Baron with sound design by Rachel Breese. Original theme music by Mark Sanchez. We had additional production help from the rest of the Brains on Universe team.

[Molly Bloom]

Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Anna Goldfield, Lauren.

[Hannah]

Humphert, Joshua Ray, Mark Sanchez, Charlotte Traver.

[Joy Dolo]

Anna Weigel and Aron Woldesilassi. Beth Pearlman is our executive producer, and the executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavadi and Joanne Griffith. Special thanks to Avery Trufelman, Grace Tarducci, Debbie Schaefer Jacobs, and Elizabeth Lynn. Okay, Hannah, are you ready to hear the answers for First Things First?

[Hannah]

Yes, I guess.

[Joy Dolo]

I'm excited. Okay, so as a reminder, we're putting these three clothing items in order. And you said number one was neckties, number two was blazers, and number three was penny loafers. Are you ready?

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

Drum Roll, please. Oh, Hannah. Oh, you got it right. So number one was neckties, and that was invented in 1636. And the modern necktie can be traced back to 1636, when French King Louis XIII hired Croatian soldiers to help fight a war. The soldiers secured their jackets by tying colorful pieces of cloth at the neck. King Louis loved the look and nicknamed it the cravat, coming from the French word for Croatians. By the early 1800s, the cravat had spread to other countries, and England even published an entire manual on different ways of tying and knotting the neck scarves, hence the name necktie. I did not know that cravat coming from the French word for Croatians. That's cool. So when you see somebody wearing a necktie or a tie now, you can be like, nice cravat. It's pretty sweet. Also, side side note, my dog's name is King Louis.

[Hannah]

Oh, that's so co.

[Joy Dolo]

So now I gotta get him a little necktie. So you're right for number one neckties, and then you're also right for number two, for blazers. There are different stories about the origins of the blazer, but both are in England during the 1800s. One story goes that the term blazer is traced back to a college boat club in Cambridge, England. Back in 1825, members of the club's rowing team wore bright red structured jackets that got the nickname blazers like a fiery blaze. The other theory is that the jackets were named after a navy boat called the HMS Blazer. In 1837, the boat's captain made his crew wear matching navy blue jackets in hopes of impressing the queen on a royal visit. So we have the necktie 1636. We have the blazers in the 1800s, and the most recent is the penny loafers, and they were invented in 1936 by a Maine shoemaker, G.H. bass. Bass was inspired by Norwegian farming shoes that were made for loafing in the field. The loafers have a small leather strap across the front of the shoe with a little cutout in the center. The shoes got the nickname penny loafers because people used to put coins like pennies in the cutout of their shoes. I knew it. Fashionable and functional, like a tiny coin purse on your foot.

[Hannah]

Like, so then I'm gonna go to a store. Okay, one penny, please.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, yeah. And you take your shoe off and give them a penny. Like, why is this sweaty? Sorry, did you. Were you surprised by any of these answers?

[Hannah]

Well, like, I kind of expected it maybe, like, at a different point in time. Maybe it's interesting. Like the name of the inventor to loaf around in the field.

[Joy Dolo]

We're just out here loafing.

[Hannah]

Thanks for listening.