Episode 335: One Foot In Front of the Other with Bridget Todd

Summary

Forever35 Podcast Summary: Episode 335 – "One Foot In Front of the Other" with Bridget Todd

Release Date: January 13, 2025
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Bridget Todd

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1. Navigating Personal and Environmental Challenges

In this emotionally charged episode of Forever35, hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu open up about the pervasive impact of wildfires in Los Angeles, setting a heartfelt and urgent tone for the conversation. The episode begins with a listener's distressing message about the LA fires, prompting Doree to express her concerns:

Doree Shafrir [02:21]: "LA is burning and we're just like processing everything that's happening."

Elise shares her dual role of hosting the podcast while actively reporting on the wildfires for NPR, highlighting the blend of personal experience and professional responsibility:

Elise Hu [02:55]: "Because this is such a banana story and such a big deal, I really wanted to pitch in and am sort of relieved I've been able to sort of keep busy in that way."

The co-hosts discuss the unusual proximity of wildfires to urban areas in Los Angeles, reflecting on the unique challenges posed by the city's varied terrain:

Doree Shafrir [04:11]: "There's so much varied terrain within, like, a very small area. ... We're really up against this terrain that is just, you know, it. It's not urban."

They also touch upon the broader community efforts to support those affected, providing listeners with actionable ways to help, such as donating to the Pasadena Humane Society and the LA Regional Food Bank.

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2. Introducing Bridget Todd: A Voice for Digital Inclusivity

The episode warmly welcomes guest Bridget Todd, a seasoned podcaster and digital activist known for her work on inclusivity for women and marginalized communities online.

Bridget Todd [17:23]: "Oh, I am beyond thrilled. This is, it's such a joy when you get invited on a podcast that you actually listen to."

Elise provides Bridget's comprehensive bio, outlining her extensive experience in digital strategy, podcasting, and activism:

Elise Hu [11:28]: "Bridget Todd got her start teaching courses on writing and social change at Howard University... she's the founder and CEO of Unbossed Creative..."

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3. Personal Resilience and Self-Care Practices

Bridget opens up about her struggles, revealing a profoundly personal journey through loss and grief:

Bridget Todd [21:03]: "I am really coming out of, like, what I can safely say is the worst year of my life. I lost both my parents."

She emphasizes the importance of finding small joys and practicing gratitude as coping mechanisms:

Bridget Todd [20:34]: "Having something like reading fiction or nonfiction... guard against the devaluing of expertise."

The discussion highlights how personal experiences shape one's approach to self-care and community engagement during tumultuous times.

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4. Combating Disinformation and Preserving Truth Online

Bridget delves into the critical issue of disinformation on the internet, particularly in the wake of Meta's (formerly Facebook) recent shifts away from fact-checking:

Bridget Todd [26:49]: "What is true actually matters. And so I think as we see these tech leaders kind of getting, saying they're getting out of the business of truth is alarming."

She articulates the nuanced view that while fact-checking may not always directly change beliefs, it serves as a crucial stance against the spread of harmful misinformation:

Bridget Todd [27:21]: "Even if the tool of fact checking is maybe not the most effective platform, saying, hey, here's a line in the sand... embodies a belief in truth."

Elise references recent discussions on misinformation's broader societal impacts, to which Bridget responds by connecting the suppression of truth to the erosion of societal norms and protections, especially for marginalized groups.

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5. The Intersection of Online Spaces and Democracy

Bridget passionately discusses how unchecked misogyny and racism online can undermine democratic processes and civic engagement:

Bridget Todd [37:27]: "I have this fantasy podcast in my head that explores the way that unchecked misogyny and racism online... are shaping our democracy."

She underscores the importance of addressing online harassment and hate speech to ensure a healthy, representative democracy. The conversation bridges the gap between digital activism and real-world political outcomes, emphasizing the ripple effects of online behavior on societal structures.

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6. Building and Finding Safe Online Communities

In exploring solutions, Bridget shares her perspectives on cultivating safer, more intentional online spaces:

Bridget Todd [35:50]: "I'm excited to see if people start, you know, refrain, like, redesigning their own Internet and digital experience as something that's more like campfires... more intimate."

She advocates for smaller, curated groups that foster meaningful and supportive interactions, moving away from the overwhelming nature of large social platforms.

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7. Recommendations for Positive Engagement and Self-Improvement

Bridget offers practical advice for listeners looking to engage positively with the digital world and maintain personal well-being:

• Commit to Reading: Bridget emphasizes the value of deep, thoughtful reading as a counterbalance to the superficial nature of much online content.

  Bridget Todd [43:13]: "In 2025, I am recommitting to reading. Reading for pleasure. Reading fiction, reading nonfiction."

• Engage in Local Communities: She highlights heartwarming examples of online interactions leading to real-world community support, encouraging listeners to focus on their immediate surroundings for meaningful connections.

  Bridget Todd [43:13]: "Lean into that... build those connections with the people who are right in your town."

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8. Concluding Thoughts and Intentions

As the episode wraps up, Doree and Elise reflect on the discussions and share their personal intentions for self-care and community support:

Doree Shafrir [47:54]: "Go one day at a time, try to process everything that's happened."

Elise Hu [48:04]: "Reflection, even if it's like, hey, five minutes while I'm waiting for my dentist appointment."

The episode concludes on a note of gratitude and solidarity, reinforcing the importance of community and shared resilience in facing both personal and societal challenges.

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Connect with Bridget Todd:

• Instagram: @bridgetmarie
• Podcast: There Are No Girls on the Internet on iHeartRadio
• Other Projects: IRL podcast with the Mozilla Foundation

Stay Connected with Forever35:

• Website: forever35podcast.com
• Instagram: @forever35podcast
• Patreon: patreon.com/forever35

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This episode of Forever35 masterfully intertwines personal narratives with broader discussions on digital activism, mental health, and community resilience, offering listeners both empathy and actionable insights in challenging times.

Transcript

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu and we are two friends who usually like to talk a lot about serums, but probably not today.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, it's like a weird day. LA is burning and we're just like processing everything that's happening. We got a text, Elise, from a listener who said, I just heard Elise on NPR reporting on the LA fires and burst into tears at work. We had to evacuate my sister in law and her cat last night from Pasadena. So thankful that we are okay so far. Still. WTF 2025. Elise and Dory, please stay safe.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, yeah, but yes, so.

[Elise Hu]

So stay safe to our listeners, too, that are in the area. I am usually not reporting for npr, but I am at large for them. And so I come back every once in a while and usually to host. But because this is such a banana story and such a big deal, I really wanted to pitch in and am sort of relieved I've been able to sort of keep busy in that way, you know, and sort of like, do something.

[Dory Shafrir]

We're recording this on Thursday. I hope that those fires are contained, but, like, yikes.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah. And then, Dory, you had a scare on Wednesday night with the fresh fire that popped up, you know, near the Sunset Strip. So just for these major wildfires to be in such densely populated urban areas is what I think is really difficult for all of us here and all of the folks in the world who are watching to wrap our heads around. Because, yeah, California is no stranger to wildfires. But often the wildfires are, like, way up in the hills, you know, or in canyons, but not the canyons of the middle of Los Angeles, like, near the Hollywood side.

[Dory Shafrir]

But I mean, that's the. That's the thing about Los Angeles is, like, there's so much varied terrain within, like, a very small area. I mean, like, you can go hiking, like, in a. In a pretty remote canyon within, like, a 10 to 15 minute drive of my house, which is, like, in the literally the middle of, like, urban Los Angeles. So we really are, you know, up against this terrain that is just, you know, it. It's not urban. So. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Elise Hu]

What a reminder.

[Dory Shafrir]

What a reminder. I mean, that's, you know, like, you see it also when. When people who live, like, in the middle of L. A see, like, coyotes in their backyards, you know, like, yeah, it's a.

[Elise Hu]

It's their habitat, not ours.

[Dory Shafrir]

It's their.

[Elise Hu]

It's like the coyotes. Natural habitat. Yeah, we're the ones who, like, build houses into them.

[Dory Shafrir]

Right? We're the invaders.

[Elise Hu]

I know a lot of folks are asking about places to help, and we had a conversation on Friday in our casual chat just about how everybody wants to be of assistance during these periods. And a lot of folks have been reaching out to us and things. I think there's a lot of places locally that we can really pitch in and volunteer. And it's a good reminder, I think, that it ties into a lot of what our Guest talks about at the end of today's interview. I know that you've also kind of gathered some places that are open to receiving help and donation.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. So one of them is the Pasadena Humane Society, which is boarding pets for evacuees. They're providing medical care for pets affected by wildfires. Also, if you're in the area, I know that they need foster help and they also have supplies they need listed on their website, but they're also accepting donations. That'[e-mail] we'll link to all of in the show notes as well. I'm sure this will be fine by Monday, but today on Thursday when I was looking at their website, it was, it definitely seemed like overwhelmed by traffic, which I think is probably a good sign. But just like something to note if you can't get in at first, just like keep reloading. Another local organization that I think always needs donations, but especially now is the LA Regional Food Bank. They're really great organization that provides a lot of food to a lot of people. The California Community foundation, which is an organization that their mission is to lead positive, systemic change that strengthens Los Angeles's communities. And I think they largely give out a lot of donations themselves to other nonprofit organizations. But they have a wildfire recovery fund. GoFundMe also has a general wildfire relief fund. It's not totally clear to me like how they're distributing that money, but that's one way to sort of like directly help. And then we'll also link to the like landing page they have for all of the individual GoFundMes from people affected by the wildfire, which there's a lot of them. And then the United Way also has a wildfire response dedicated fund. So we will, we will link to that too.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it looks like with GoFundMe's general wildfire relief Fund, what they've done in the past is give grants because you know, there have been wildfires in the past, many times in, in recent years. And so what they do is they take that large pool of fund and distribute via grants to folks or organizations. There's like what, more than a hundred thousand people who are displaced as we, as we record this, including you know, my mother, not in law, Susan, who's Rob's mom and she, who's who's at Rob's house indefinitely. And she doesn't like it and he doesn't like it.

[Bridget Todd]

So.

[Elise Hu]

It'S just, it's so uncertain. Everything that happens in the next couple of days is dependent on where and how the wind blows, which feels so futile and helpless. You know, that's like a really helpless feeling. And that's how all of this started too. Like very strong winds. Wind speeds reached up to nearly 100 miles per hour.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yep.

[Elise Hu]

And school's out.

[Dory Shafrir]

School is out. School is out.

[Elise Hu]

We're having fire risk days instead of snow days out here in the husband. People are staying, staying even and trying to be helpful. Is Henry also staying home for a couple days?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, Henry is home. Henry is home. He's.

[Elise Hu]

What are y'all doing? Just to, like, keep things occupied.

[Dory Shafrir]

I mean, he's been watching tv. Yeah, that's pretty much it for today. I mean, I told him after I finish recording, we're gonna play some games. And then I think he might do a makeup gymnastics class later this afternoon because I was like, what is an indoor activity? He could do gymnastics. But I'm not even like, totally sure they're open. Like, they haven't confirmed and they usually confirm really quickly. So I'm like, I don't know.

[Elise Hu]

Our dance studios are closed. They decided to close because of the.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, really?

[Elise Hu]

The hazardous air.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, yeah, maybe I'll.

[Dory Shafrir]

Maybe I'll call them. But yeah, it's tough because a lot of stuff is closed. The air quality is not good. So I don't want him to be outside. So, yeah, it's great.

[Elise Hu]

We're podcasting.

[Dory Shafrir]

We're podcasting. We're podcasting. You know, just acknowledging that we have our homes and we're able to podcast and we have electricity. I mean, I have. I also have friends who, like, their. Their houses are still standing, but they don't have electricity. And so they can't really go back with their kids. You know, it's like, so they're kind of bouncing from friends to friends and it's just tough. It's all tough. So. Well, I actually felt like the guest we have this week is like, it was like very apt for this moment.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it almost felt faded to get to talk with Bridget Todd, who is a fellow podcaster. She hosts There Are no Girls on the Internet. She also has been a longtime activist for inclusivity on the Internet for women and marginalized communities. And we talked a lot about how she is coping because this past, you know, the holiday season was really rough on her. She had a rough 20, 24 and was just so candid and vulnerable about it. Dor, I don't know how you came away from it because this is the first time we're really kind of reflecting. But yeah, I Thought it was a really rich conversation that we needed precisely when we had it.

[Dory Shafrir]

I agree. Do you want to read her official bio in case people are not familiar with her?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, absolutely. Bridget Todd got her start teaching courses on writing and social change at Howard University. And since then she has trained human rights activists in Australia, coordinated digital strategy for organizations like Planned Parenthood, the Women's March and msnbc. And she ran a training program for political operatives at the Washington Post called the Democratic Party's Hogwarts for Digital Wizardry. She got her start in the podcast world as a producer for MoveOn.org's flagship podcast. In 2012, she co hosted iHeartMedia's hit podcast Stuff Mom Never Told you'd Bringing feminist issues and activism to 2 million ears a month. She has teamed up with culture and arts brand AfroPunk to host a global salon where she's talked to a lot of high profile activists. She's also the founder and CEO of Unbossed Creative, a mission driven creative studio that makes podcasts and other digital content to push the needle on social change and public good. But I feel like most importantly, she, she's a real one. She's a real one. She's just a really solid and open hearted human being.

[Dory Shafrir]

She was so great. And just quickly before we get to Bridget, just a reminder that everything we mention here, including those, those links to those organ that we mentioned at the top of the show are on our website forever35podcast.com. Also on Instagram, Revver35podcast on our Patreon which is at patreon.com forever35. You can join us and hear our weekly casual chats and a bunch of other extra goodies. You can shop our favorite products@shopmy us forever35 our newsletter is at forever35podcast.com newsletter and please call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast podcast gmail.com and we will take a short break and we'll be right back with Bridget.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back.

[Dory Shafrir]

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[Dory Shafrir]

Bridget it is so great to welcome you to Forever 35. We're so happy to have you on the show.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, I am beyond thrilled. This is, it's such a joy when you get invited on a podcast that you actually listen to. So this is a joy for me.

[Elise Hu]

Yay.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yay, yay, yay. Well, as you know, we like to start off by asking our guests about a self care practice that they have. So is there anything that you're doing right now that you would consider self care very broadly defined?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh gosh, it's been hard. I have been having a harder time than usual. This time of year is always tough for me, but kind of been going through it. And I would say the biggest self care practice that I'm sort of internalizing is just getting through the day. Right. Like at the end of the day, if I have like done it and existed and made it and done, maybe one thing I was supposed to do, I give myself a little pat on the back. That's sort of where we're at right now. I wish I could say, like, oh, I drink my lemon water. No, it's just getting through.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I mean, it's a rough time to get through. I mean, we are speaking to you as our hometown is on fire. You know, and then obviously the year started with that exploding cybertruck and terror attacks and everything. And we're going into another administration that has promised to be as chaotic and cruel as possible. So what is your vibe as we kick off 2025 and how are you coping with whatever is to come?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh my God. Well, especially being here in Washington, D.C. which is my hometown, where I live, I would say the despair is palpable when you're out on the streets. You know, I think people are really hunkering down and, and you know, understandably concerned, I would say. I mean, I, I've Been really. It's been a struggle. I have been really trying to find the light in the darkness. One of my favorite kind of quotes is, you know, don't try to fight the darkness. Bring the light. So I'm trying to cling to things like optimism, you know, wherever I can find it, even in small ways. But it's especially hard right now. I mean, I think y'all are probably feeling it, too, no?

[Elise Hu]

Oh, we are. We commiserate about it daily. But we are trying to kind of same thing, like, trying to find some small pleasures, like little moments with our dog or with kids or, you know, like, things that make us feel good, like a meal, a shared meal with friends. Are there things that you consider kind of small pleasures that you have been kind of trying to indulge in lately?

[Bridget Todd]

Definitely. Reality tv. Oh, yes. Yeah. It's like. I think I'm returning to, like. Like you said, the small pleasures, whether it's making a really good meal, watching something funny, you know, having a really good talk with a friend. These things might not seem like huge wins, but they add up. And I think for me, I'm trying to bring an intentional practice of noticing those things and trying to have gratitude for those things. Even the small, little stupid things that you're like, oh, who cares? They add up. And like, at the end of the day, if you, you know, watched a funny show and had a great meal and had a good talk with your friend, that's not so bad.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, this is. There's, like, this concept of micro joys that the author and, like, influencer Cindy Spiegel wrote a whole book about. And I really try to embrace that because it's true. Like, we, you know, the world around us is literally burning right now. And, you know, if. If I can find a little bit of joy somewhere, I think that's just so important.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Bridget Todd]

And I should share. I mean, I don't know if this is. I guess there's no such thing as TMI on this show. Yeah. I am really coming out of, like, what I can safely say is the worst year of my life. I lost both my parents. In a very short Spanish. My mom passed away, like, very unexpectedly in July. And when she passed away, my dad was in the icu. And so she was like a superwoman and was, like, the main caretaker for my dad. And so with her gone, I moved to take care of my dad. So I left my job. I completely rearranged my life. And then he passed away right before Thanksgiving. And so kind of coming out of the worst year. It's really taught me a lot about. I mean, it sounds so cliche, but gratitude. It taught me a lot about how you keep going when you feel like you've lost everything, when you have no tether, when you don't know what's ahead. You can't even see it. And weirdly, I would say, as hard as it's been, it's those little moments that you were just talking about, Elise, that really bring me back to my grounding. So it's really been all about that.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. I remember when my grandmother died, and my mom. I guess my mom was, like, 60 years old when my grandmother died. Like, my grandmother didn't die until she was in her 90s. And then my mom's saying to me, it's so hard to navigate the world without my mom. And even then, you know what I mean? It's like there's no point in your life where you're prepared to be without your parents. So I'm so sorry. I'm really sorry. And there's so much that you have been doing in the world too, right? Like, doing a lot of activism as well. And so I wonder how these things kind of connect with one another, like your personal experience and then your larger work that you want to do in the world to increase visibility, to increase inclusivity.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. I so appreciate how you framed that question, because to me, it really is linked to this legacy left by my late parents. Right. Like, my parents were activists. My parents really were people who wanted to, you know, bring the light in dark times. And, you know, in all of the despair that I felt when they left, I feel sort of more invigorated than ever to carry out their legacy, to be the kind of person that they. That they wanted me to be. And especially now that we're heading into these such dark times, politically and socially. I would almost say before my parents were passed away, I was like, I don't even know what I'm gonna be doing in the first Trump administration. Like, I might just kind of hunker down and just do my own thing. I feel more invigorated than ever, because that's what my parents would have done. My parents were fighters. My parents would not have wanted me to retreat. My parents would have wanted me to really connect to the things that fill me up so that I can show up in the world the way that they. That they did, the way that they wanted me to.

[Dory Shafrir]

So what are some of those things that you're doing? And I guess, like, where on The Internet, Are you finding those things?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my gosh. Well, it might sound silly, but probably not to you all or your listenership, but it's on the Internet. The only places that I am really showing up are places where the stakes are super low. So if, like a podcast Facebook group.

[Elise Hu]

Right?

[Bridget Todd]

Like, I listen to the podcast who weekly and they have these very active Facebook groups. Yes. Places like that where it's like, oh, it's other nerds trying to nerd out on pop culture stuff. And you can argue and like, make your point, make your case, but the stakes feel so much lower because, you know, the stakes every day are very high. So online, digitally, I'm spending time where the stakes feel lower, if that makes sense.

[Elise Hu]

Talk a little bit about the work that you have been doing, not only as a podcaster, but as an activist over the last few years to make the Internet like a lesson. This awful place.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, I mean, I love the Internet. I. I sometimes say it's my hometown. I would not be the person that I am if it was not for, like, being on AOL chats and like, putting depressing song lyrics and my. In my aim, you know, away message and all of that. So, like, I care deeply about the state and the health of the Internet. Right. Like, it's who I. It's. It's what made me who I am. And I really worry about the state of the Internet that we're leaving for the next generation. Right. Like, are young black queer women like myself able to safely show up and do that, like, sort of safe self exploration? That was so important to me, like, I did. I would argue that it's becoming harder and harder for young people today to find those safe corners of the Internet to do that self exploration. And so my work as an activist and a digital advocate really has looked like trying to make the Internet a more welcoming, safe place for particularly marginalized folks. So women, queer folks, trans folks, people of color, black folks, folks that really do make the Internet experience great. Like, if not for these folks, our Internet experience would be so flat and stale and boring. And so we're all served when these are folks who can show up safely as their full selves. And unfortunately, right now, we're seeing a lot of the work that I did for the last few years be rolled back. Like, just yesterday, Mark Zuckerberg announced that Meta is going to stop doing things like fact checking. And, you know, and so it's a little hard in this moment to watch so much of the work that we really fought for be rolled back. But you know, it's like MLK says, the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice. I firmly believe that we might be swinging one way, but we'll be swinging another before you know it. So I really have to believe that. But that's really what my work has looked like.

[Dory Shafrir]

I wanted to ask about the Mark Zuckerberg announcement and how you're kind of thinking about it in terms of disinformation. And just going into this next administration, it feels like we're sort of like losing some of the tools that we, the few tools that we even had. So I'm wondering like what you think the next few years will look like for those of us who want to kind of combat disinformation.

[Bridget Todd]

I love this question. So I'll start from kind of where we're at, you know, in. So I'm a disinformation researcher. It's sort of like my bread and butter is sort of how we combat inaccurate information online. And the Facebook announcement yesterday, it was a little sort of double edged sword. Fact checking has not been shown to be the most effective way of combating disinformation. I am an advocate for it. I think that we should have it, I think platforms should do it. But when you look at the research, it actually is not that convincing or not that effective at actually getting people to, you know, stop to not believe something that's not true. However, I do think it is effective for a platform to say, yes, we will not allow inflammatory, inaccurate content on our platform. I think even if the, the tool of fact checking is maybe not the most effective platform, saying, hey, here's a line in the sand. We're not like, truth is a thing that exists. We believe in truth and we're not going to allow stuff that's not true that could hurt somebody or cause a insurrection on our platform. Right. And so it's kind of a double edged thing where that specific piece of it is not the most important thing, but overall what it represents. As you just said, like, I do think we're sort of losing the battle for truth. We're losing the battle for accurate information. And you know, it sounds so like wonky, but at the end of the day, people deserve the truth. You don't have to like it, you don't have to like want to engage with it. But truth, the truth matters. What is true actually matters. And so I think as we see these tech leaders kind of getting, saying they're getting out of the business of truth is alarming. However, I do think that your average person is sick of this. Your average person wants to, to go on social media and not have to wade through inflammatory lies and hate. They, they, they're sick of it. They've had enough. I think the appetite for truth is really there.

[Dory Shafrir]

I hadn't really thought of it in the way that you just framed it, which I think is really important. That, like, it's not so much the actual fact checking, right? Like, it's. Which, as you said, is, like, not especially effective. It's more that this is a signal to people who might want to spread disinformation. Like, hey, this is a safe space for you to do that. And that. That's really interesting and almost scarier, right? Like, I don't know.

[Bridget Todd]

Absolutely.

[Elise Hu]

Charlie Warzel for the Atlantic, he wrote something, I guess it was this week or last, about how the danger of misinformation is that is not necessarily just like, that people are receiving stuff that's not true, but that it helps people who are believing in the misinformation maintain their beliefs.

[Bridget Todd]

Right?

[Elise Hu]

Like, it holds up this other cinematic universe that folks believe is true and then eventually it touches your life.

[Bridget Todd]

You really hit the nail on the head of, like, it's that devaluing of expertise and training people that when somebody who knows what they're talking about gives it to you straight, you don't have to believe that they're just a liar. And ultimately it hurts people. Like, I think that's my. If there's one thing that I want people listening to, take away from DIS. Ms. And disinformation is that it harms people. And other people are getting rich off of that harm. Right? Like, they are making suckers out of all of us and getting rich from it. And so do you want the other guy, this stranger who's probably already wealthy, to get an extra buck off of your pain? I would argue no. Right. So, like, that is exactly it. And. And I also want to say, like, because I know, you know, this is a space that you've curated with a lot of, like, women dismiss information disproportionately impacts marginalized people, including women. And so, you know, with that, with that new Zuckerberg announcement about meta, one of the phrases that they are not going to be moderating off of their platform are phrases like women are property. Right? Phrases that are really about lying about women, our agency, our. You know, it's. And these people who are making these decisions really can shape the world that we live in. Right? And so if you. Sorry, if you live in a world where, you know, the men who run these platforms say, you know, misogyny is fine and cool. You are going to grow up in a world where misogyny is fine and cool. Right. And so these decisions really do matter.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. To say nothing of the history that gets erased. Like the history of January 6th that gets, like, reframed. The history of way more global painful events and tragedies that can get papered over or rewritten, which is pretty awful.

[Dory Shafrir]

So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

I'm glad we're talking about this because I've been wondering kind of where to hang out online. You know, are there certain places that it seems like meta's gone, you know, it's not like we were hanging out on Facebook that much anymore anyway. But like, every once in a while I get those, get those links from Facebook through my dad, you know.

[Bridget Todd]

But yeah, if you're like, I feel like Facebook is like your parents, your auntie, and like maybe that girl you went to high school with, you know what I mean? Like, maybe.

[Elise Hu]

But I have to look them up in the yearbook to even remember. So where do you hang out? Where are places that we might find community? Or do we kind of have to build our own and just like be on the Forever 35 Patreon, which is.

[Bridget Todd]

Well, the Forever 35 Patreon is a great place to hang out.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Bridget Todd]

I mean, I do think right now we're in this weird. I'm almost kind of excited about it in a weird way, even though it's like very uncharted territory. I just got. I've been on Blue Sky a little bit, which I've sort of been enjoying. But, you know, the current iteration of Twitter as X is not for me a cool, chill hang. So I don't really spend a lot of time there. We are poised to maybe see major changes with TikTok, so who knows where that's going as a platform. As you said, Facebook threads isn't really hitting like that. We're in this weird kind of uncharted territory where we, the major platforms are either stagnant or. Or threatened. And I really think that in light of that, I'm excited to see what happens. I'm excited to see if people start, you know, refrain, like, redesigning their own Internet and digital experience as something that's more like campfires, right? Like more intimate, more, you know, curated, where people are kind of gathering in these smaller groups to really have conversations that are important to them. I think that people have had it with the riff raff. I think the idea that Internet platforms are meant to be these digital town squares where I have to hear everybody all at once, all the time. I don't think that humans are designed to take in that much information. I wouldn't necessarily want to go into my town square and hear everything everybody's got to say and then speak back to them. Right. I think that we tried that. I think that we're sort of going away from that a little bit.

[Dory Shafrir]

I have, like, I have a somewhat related question. You've been a podcaster for a really long time and you've. You've done a bunch of different shows. Is there a show that you want to do that for whatever reason, like, hasn't gotten off the ground?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my God, yes. This is like asking a podcaster. This question is like, how much time do you have?

[Dory Shafrir]

I know, I know.

[Bridget Todd]

I would say one is, you know, my sort of bread and butter are the. Are the experiences that marginalized people are having online. And I really believe that those experiences are important to talk about because, you know, we're people, it matters what's happening with us online. But also they go on to shape so much of our civic infrastructure. Right. And so I have this fantasy podcast in my head that explores the way that unchecked misogyny and racism online, on places like Reddit, on places like Twitter, like things that you might think of as casual, commonplace. You could draw a straight line from that to what is happening politically right now. You know, things like hate speech and threats and harassment against women. The research is very clear that that keeps women from doing things like running for office or just even just making their voice Heard politically. Right. And so how is what's happening online impacting our democracy? And how is it keeping us from the representative democracy that we really deserve? Like, that is a story I feel like no one is really telling, but we see little kind of threads of it all the time. But I want to pull those threads together into a quilt, if you will.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I love that. Because we see the effect of it constantly. Right. We see kind of the manosphere leading the country and the world. But so much of the playbook that allowed for the manosphere to be victorious was started in. Had tactics in Gamergate. Exactly. Back in 2014.

[Bridget Todd]

I think, like, we need to see the ways that Gamergate tactics are shaping our everyday politics, civic life and democracy, because it is.

[Dory Shafrir]

And having it.

[Bridget Todd]

Having it shape our democracy. But then no one really talking about it like that is a problem to me.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, well, and I think, you know, there was that New York Times podcast a few years ago, rabbit hole, that showed how easy it was to radicalize people just, like, through the algorithm. And my husband spends a lot of time on YouTube and he is, like, very protective of his algorithm because he has some interests, like wrestling that can lead to, like, right wing stuff. And he has seen how easy it is for YouTube to just, like, recommend videos and he's like, no, no, like, I don't want this. But like, for someone who's not as kind of aware of the way the algorithm works as he is and. And very, like, certain in his beliefs, I. That could be so dangerous.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my gosh. I. For anybody who has, like, young men and boys in their life. If you got a young man or a boy in your life who was interested in things like wrestling or like, really benign hobbies and interests working out. Yes. They are just a few clicks away.

[Elise Hu]

Hobby at all.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes. If you were a young man with a hobby, you are, like a few clicks away from, like, the most extreme stuff that you could ever imagine on the Internet. And the way that they sneak it in is so insidious because it's like, yeah, you know, oh, you like working out. Aren't all your problems really to blame because of women? Like, it's such a.

[Sleep Number Ad]

Like.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes, yes. Y. And like, the. The ins. Some of them are so insidious that, like, it's not like the name of the video is not, like, why you should hate women. It's like, you know, it's just. It's all very seemingly benign and then all this stuff gets, like, woven in. So, yeah, I would love for someone like you, Bridget, to really nominate you. Yeah, we nominate you. If anyone in podcast development is listening to this and wants to get Bridget this show, please do, because I need to listen to it. So. Yeah.

[Bridget Todd]

From your lips to God's ears.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes. Yes.

[Elise Hu]

I feel like there is no more important topic right now, frankly, than our relationship with truth and information. Yes. It affects every sector and every sort of facet of life. How you re. How you relate with reality, that is.

[Bridget Todd]

So as somebody who, like, I'm somebody who loves pop culture, like, I've. I like to read the blind items. I get a lot of entertainment from it. So many even. Even things that you think of as just, like, hobbies or interests or, like, not, you know, not political, even. That is. I think there's a thread there, right? Like, I. Like, you were talking about your husband. Or like, I am someone who likes to read, like, deux moi, and, like, what are the celebrities doing? And I had to sort of take a step back and be like, wait, in what ways is this making it easier for me to traffic in conspiracy theories? And part of my brain thinks, oh, it's just fun. I'm just talking about, you know, I'm just talking about Blake Lively. I'm just talking about, you know, the Duchess or whatever. And then it's like, actually, am I priming myself to do exactly what we were talking about earlier to, you know, find conspiracies, maybe enjoy the warm fuzzies that creates in my brain, but really, you know, it's priming me to do a lot of that world building that is not always so healthy, not to mention not grounded in truth. Does that make sense?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes. Yes. And it's so hard to recognize when it's happening to you, because it's about things that we don't think about as being like. What I'm trying to say is, like, if. If we got videos that were talking about, you know, misogynistic, like, blatantly misogynistic things, we'd be like, oh, this is terrible. But when it's like these celebrity conspiracy theories, we don't necessarily like. To your point, we don't necessarily recognize the danger in those and where those could lead. So I think it is important for all of us, no matter what our interests are, no matter what our algorithm looks like, to be aware of this.

[Bridget Todd]

And it speaks to what you were talking about earlier, of how algorithms and our digital infrastructure makes it so easy to have basically two realities. Right? Algorithms can create these. I mean, I hate the word echo chambers, but it makes it very easy to exist in multiple realities where there is not one truth. I guess that's. I guess that's what I'm saying.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes. That's such a good way of looking at it.

[Elise Hu]

And it has major social impacts. Well, Bridget, before we let you go, I'd love to know if there are places that are unproblematic that you recommend, like, anything that you're enjoying. Are there little, you know, narratives going on in pop culture news or in, you know, in art in general that you're enjoying and that you recommend that we might be able to sort of take a small pleasure in.

[Bridget Todd]

Can I give a.

[Elise Hu]

Very.

[Bridget Todd]

Well, I have two plugs. One. They're kind of weird. I hope that's okay. One is for reading. Something that I have kind of trying to keep myself accountable for is the way that being immersed in online culture all the time, which I love, has kind of given me a little bit of brain rot. And I've noticed myself when something is in, like, long form or, like, essay form, I can feel my brain being like, oh, I have to read a paragraph on this one. So in 2025, I am recommitting to reading. Reading for pleasure. Reading fiction, reading nonfiction. I would. That's something I think that we should really bring back. I'm sure for a lot of people, it's never left. I see lots of books in the background and both of them here recording. But I think, like, as we go into these politically, perhaps difficult times, I think the folks in power are going to benefit from us not reading, not doing deep dives, not having an attention span, like, listening to that voice that's like, oh, you don't want to read this whole thing, and we should resist that. So I'm trying to hold myself accountable for that in 2025. So read in 2025 is something I would say. And then another one. This is going to sound so strange, but I'm on the. I live in D.C. i'm big on the Washington, D.C. subreddit. It's a snow. There was a snowstorm here. There was, like, power outages. All of that. Somebody's dogs got loose in my neighborhood. And so someone posted a picture of these two adorable dogs and was like, oh, if these are your dogs, I have them. Everybody in the comments is like, call this people. Call those people. Someone on Instagram is like, I know those dogs. The owner is an elderly man in my community. He doesn't have social media. How can I connect you? And I got to follow this, like, lovely story of this, of somebody keeping these Dogs warm in their, like, spare room until this elderly man could get them. And then he was, like, posted a picture of the reunite, like, the reuniting ceremony. And it was like, oh, also, I made them bandanas. So stories like that of, like, what's.

[Elise Hu]

What is the hyper local.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes. Helping each other out, positive stuff in your town, in your community, on your block, lean into that.

[Dory Shafrir]

I love that. I feel like that's been a theme that's come up so many times lately among our guests, of being like, your vill, like, you need your village, whatever that looks like. And also, don't be afraid to lean on them, you know, because that also helps create community when you reach out to others for help, which is, like, something that I need to remind myself of constantly.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. One of my favorite podcasts, cool people who did cool stuff all about sort of like cool activists through history. One of the things that they bring up a lot on that show that I appreciate is that in truly dark times, like, in, like, truly dystopian dark, dark times, your neighbors are the people that you're gonna wanna lean on. And so plant those seeds now. Do that work now of building those connections with the people who are right in your town. You know, as somebody who loves the Internet and loves to connect with strangers halfway across the world, don't forget about the people who live upstairs and downstairs, because those are the people who are gonna really help you out if stuff gets real.

[Dory Shafrir]

I love that. What a nice note to end on, Bridget. Where can our listeners find you on the Internet?

[Bridget Todd]

Well, you can follow me on Instagram bridgetmarie. In D.C. you can listen to my podcast on iheartradio called There Are no Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of social media, digital everything, and marginalized identity. You can check out my other podcast with the Mozilla foundation called IRL that explores ethics in AI. Yeah, I think that's it.

[Elise Hu]

Fantastic.

[Dory Shafrir]

Great.

[Bridget Todd]

Bridget.

[Elise Hu]

Todd, thank you so much.

[Bridget Todd]

This was so fun. Thank you for having me. I'm a fan girling.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, yay. Like we said before we talked to Bridget, I just. It was like, just interesting that we happened to have booked her for this week.

[Elise Hu]

This week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So thanks again, Bridget. And now it's time for the Intention Zone.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, I mean, it's weird. Like, last week I was like, I'm gonna finish my newsletter draft. I did not finish my newsletter draft. Will I finish my newsletter draft this week? Probably not.

[Elise Hu]

You might write something different, though.

[Dory Shafrir]

I might write something different. That's true. I might have other things to say. I don't know. I don't really have intentions right now beyond just like, help my community and.

[Elise Hu]

One day at a time.

[Dory Shafrir]

Go one day at a time, try to process everything that's happened.

[Elise Hu]

It's sort of like Bridget Todd's answer to her self care question, which was like, just getting through the day.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Is my self care?

[Dory Shafrir]

I thought that was so, like, real.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, she just like, yeah, she just came here and just sat down and opened herself up. And I just thought that it just made for such a great conversation and also made us feel really connected with her too. So maybe your intention is Bridget's self care, which is just getting through the day.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yep, yep, yep. What about you?

[Elise Hu]

Mine was a consistent bedtime last week, and surprisingly, I've done pretty well with that because not even. Not even that intentionally, frankly. I've just been tired, you know, and I've wanted to go to sleep. And so that has gotten me to sleep at a consistent pace or I. At a consistent time interval this week. Same thing. I mean, one thing I want to do is try and maybe reflect. I think, like, everything feels so much, and I don't know if that reflection necessarily means, like, I'm gonna write it down. I feel like journaling is almost too ambitious of an intention, given what we're all going through. So maybe just like, reflection, even if it's like, hey, five minutes while I'm waiting for my dentist appointment, if I still have that next week, I'll just sit and reflect. It'll be kind of my form of a mini meditation.

[Dory Shafrir]

I like that. Well, Elise, I'm glad we have each other and this community, this show, and. Yeah, just grateful for all of it. And just a reminder that Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafriar and Elise Hu. Produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is acast. Thanks, everyone.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you all. Be safe. Bye.