Podcast Summary: Forever35 Episode 348: Three Friends Who Like To Talk About Cults with Jane Borden

Introduction

In Episode 348 of Forever35, hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu delve into the intriguing and often misunderstood world of cults with their guest, Jane Borden. Jane, an accomplished author and culture journalist, brings her expertise to explore how cult-like behaviors have permeated modern American society. The conversation is both insightful and thought-provoking, shedding light on the historical roots and contemporary manifestations of cults.

Self-Care Practices

The episode begins with the hosts sharing their personal self-care routines. Jane Borden introduces her unique practice:

• "I ordered some ceremonial grade cacao and I make myself a little like high class hot cocoa and then I sit on my porch and do a little gratitude practice." ([11:39])

Jane explains that ceremonial cacao is a high-quality chocolate used in traditional rituals, emphasizing the importance of sourcing ethically. This practice helps her center herself before engaging in writing or when seeking peace and gratitude.

Defining Cults

Jane Borden provides a comprehensive definition of cults, highlighting how the term has evolved over time:

• "Cults come in all shapes and sizes. I believe a cult leader exists on the spectrum between a domestic abuser and a dictator." ([19:15])

She explains that while many organizations might exhibit one or two cult-like characteristics, true cults often involve a charismatic leader, undue influence or mind control techniques, and actual harm to members or outsiders.

Cults in American Society

Jane delves into why American society is particularly susceptible to cult-like behaviors, tracing it back to foundational Puritan beliefs:

• "America has long seen itself as the chosen nation, the light bearer, the one to bring justice or democracy or Jesus to the world." ([22:02])

She argues that the notion of American exceptionalism and the Puritan work ethic have inadvertently fostered a culture that venerates the wealthy and equates hard work with divine favor, creating fertile ground for cult-like ideologies.

Seven Puritan Credos

Jane's book centers around seven Puritan credos that she believes underpin American culture. Two key credos discussed in the episode include:

1. Innate Desire for a Strong Leader

   • "We're looking for someone to come in. And the way that the community is saved is always through violence." ([25:11])

   Jane connects this to the current political climate, where figures like Donald Trump embody the autocratic fantasies rooted in American monomyths.

2. Knee-Jerk Anti-Authoritarianism and Anti-Intellectualism

   • "We can't save ourselves, we're under threat... right." ([25:11])

   This credo fuels resistance against established institutions and fosters a reliance on charismatic leaders who promise salvation.

Autocratic Fantasies and Apocalypticism

Jane discusses how apocalyptic narratives serve as a salve during crises, providing a sense of hope through autocratic saviors:

• "Apocalypticism is almost a salve... We're going to be on top in the end." ([25:11])

She connects these narratives to popular culture, citing how the hero archetype in movies and literature mirrors the autocratic fantasies prevalent in society.

Mitigating Cult Influence

Addressing the rise of cult-like ideologies, Jane emphasizes the need to mitigate underlying societal crises:

• "The way out is to mitigate the crisis... if we're not in crisis." ([27:56])

She identifies income inequality and climate change as major drivers that, if addressed, could reduce the appeal of demagogues and cult leaders.

Individual Resilience and Leaving Cults

Jane explores the process individuals undergo to break free from cults:

• "People who leave cults... talk about this slow returning of critical thinking skills." ([29:15])

She advises against arguing with those in cults, recommending instead to ask questions and share stories to help them gradually reclaim their critical faculties.

Case Studies and Examples

Jane shares fascinating stories of historical cults, such as the Oneidans:

• "John Humphrey Noyes thought he had literally brought heaven to earth in his community." ([30:39])

She highlights how these groups believe they can create utopian societies, often leading to extreme behaviors and eventual collapse.

Social Isolation and Cults

The discussion turns to the role of social media and modern technology in fostering isolation and division:

• "Social media has isolated us from one another... feeding us extreme content." ([34:09])

Jane explains that algorithms prioritize engagement over genuine connection, making individuals more susceptible to extremist ideas and cult recruitment.

Advice for Friends and Family

Jane offers practical advice for those concerned about loved ones involved in cults:

• "Cutting people out of your life is not the answer... keep open channels of communication." ([37:36])

She emphasizes the importance of being present, non-judgmental, and encouraging critical thinking without confrontation.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the pervasive nature of cult-like ideologies in America and the steps needed to counteract them. Jane Borden underscores the importance of understanding the historical and cultural roots of these behaviors to effectively address and prevent their spread.

Listeners are encouraged to explore Jane's work further through her website and social media, offering resources to deepen their understanding of cults and their impact on society.

Notable Quotes

• "Cults come in all shapes and sizes. I believe a cult leader exists on the spectrum between a domestic abuser and a dictator." — Jane Borden ([19:15])

• "America has long seen itself as the chosen nation, the light bearer, the one to bring justice or democracy or Jesus to the world." — Jane Borden ([22:02])

• "Apocalypticism is almost a salve... We're going to be on top in the end." — Jane Borden ([25:11])

• "People who leave cults... talk about this slow returning of critical thinking skills." — Jane Borden ([29:15])

• "Social media has isolated us from one another... feeding us extreme content." — Jane Borden ([34:09])

Resources Mentioned

• Jane Borden's Website: janeborden.com
• Instagram: @janeborden
• Jane's Book: Cults Like Us: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America available at major retailers

Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductory segments, and concluding remarks unrelated to the main content to focus solely on the substantive discussions about cults and their influence on contemporary society.