Episode 364: The GlowJob x Forever35 Cross Over Episode!

Summary

Forever35 Podcast: Episode 364 – The GlowJob x Forever35 Crossover

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guests: Julia Bellery & Sasa Lee (Co-hosts of Glow Job)
Release Date: August 11, 2025

---

Introduction and Welcome

Doree Shafrir (00:32):
Doree kicks off the episode by welcoming listeners back to Forever35, describing it as a podcast dedicated to self-care with a humorous and self-aware twist. This episode features a special crossover with the Glow Job podcast, introducing the listeners to Julia Bellery and Sasa Lee, the dynamic co-hosts of Glow Job.

Elise Hu (01:33):
Elise adds excitement about the collaboration, praising the Glow Job hosts and setting the stage for an engaging discussion.

---

Updates from Hosts

Doree Shafrir (02:10):
Doree shares her recent summer vacation on the East Coast, highlighting quality family time and personal activities. She mentions her upcoming tennis tournament, signaling her commitment to balancing personal interests with professional responsibilities.

Elise Hu (05:03):
Elise updates listeners on her recent medical procedure, providing a candid account of her experience. She also talks about her daughters' ice skating camp, reflecting on the challenges of balancing family commitments.

Doree Shafrir (07:02):
Doree reflects on the swift transition from summer to the start of the school year, sharing anecdotes about the cultural event Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl and her interactions with friends who attended.

Elise Hu (09:38):
Elise shares insights about her children's activities and her excitement for upcoming tennis tournaments, demonstrating the podcast's blend of personal and cultural content.

---

Introducing the Guests: Julia Bellery & Sasa Lee

Elise Hu (10:28):
Elise introduces Julia Bellery and Sasa Lee, co-hosts of the Glow Job podcast. She provides detailed backgrounds:

• Julia Bellery:

  • Former tech executive transitioned to skincare.
  • Leads strategic marketing at Lemieux Cosmetics.
  • Expertise in digital marketing, brand activations, and customer experience.
  • UC Berkeley art history graduate with a decade-long experience in sales and partnerships at Oracle and DocuSign.
  • Enjoys golfing and exploring Korean beauty trends.

• Sasa Lee:

  • Former fashion designer turned finance professional.
  • BFA from Parsons School of Design and MBA from NYU.
  • Private wealth advisor at Wells Fargo Private Bank in Beverly Hills.
  • Serves on the board of trustees at The New School.
  • Balances finance with ongoing connections to art and design.

Doree Shafrir (12:32):
Doree emphasizes the guests' expertise and charisma, noting their shared passion for beauty and professionalism.

---

The Origins of Glow Job

Julia Bellery (16:35):
Julia recounts the serendipitous meeting with Sasa in esthetician school in Los Angeles. They bonded over their shared interest in beauty, leading to the creation of the Glow Job podcast in February of the same year.

Sasa Lee (17:50):
Sasa adds that their esthetician program was more of a hobby, allowing them to explore beauty without the intention of becoming practicing estheticians. This flexible learning environment fostered their passion for beauty discussions.

Elise Hu (19:53):
Elise shares her connection with the Forever35 podcast, detailing how mutual professional acquaintances led to the collaboration between the two shows.

---

Discussion on Journalism and Podcasting

Elise Hu (21:56):
Elise delves into her background in broadcast journalism and transition to podcasting, highlighting the differences between traditional journalism and the more personal, conversational nature of podcasts.

Julia Bellery (23:16):
Julia discusses the evolution of content creation, especially in the beauty industry, emphasizing the preference for longer-form discussions over short, often superficial content prevalent on social media platforms.

Elise Hu (24:29):
Elise expresses concerns about the shift towards creator-driven content, fearing that important but less glamorous topics may receive less attention in favor of more engaging, viral content.

---

Exploring Dupe Culture in Beauty

Julia Bellery (25:52):
Julia introduces the topic of dupe culture, explaining how Glow Job approaches it with a balanced perspective. They recently debated the ethics and practicality of dupes, ultimately supporting them as affordable alternatives for consumers.

Doree Shafrir (25:52):
Doree underscores the importance of distinguishing between legitimate dupes and outright counterfeit products, emphasizing consumer safety and ethical considerations.

Elise Hu (27:00):
Elise shares her skepticism towards skincare dupes, citing the complexity of formulations and active ingredients that make true skincare dupes challenging to replicate effectively.

Julia Bellery (28:30):
Julia agrees, pointing out that while makeup dupes are more feasible, skincare products require precise formulations, making good dupes rarer.

Elise Hu (31:19):
Elise highlights a successful skincare dupe from Missha, showcasing the potential for quality affordable alternatives in the K Beauty sector.

Julia Bellery (31:56):
Julia elaborates on how K Beauty brands successfully create dupes by utilizing cost-effective ingredients without compromising on efficacy, contrasting them with brands that produce mere packaging replicas.

---

Favorite Dupes and Product Recommendations

Elise Hu (34:00):
Elise shares her favorite skincare dupe, the Missha Time Revolution First Treatment Essence, which she praises for offering similar benefits to the high-priced SK2 Essence at a fraction of the cost.

Doree Shafrir (34:15):
Doree mentions her loyalty to NYX Concealer, appreciating its effectiveness and affordability, though she notes it's unclear which specific product it's duping.

Julia Bellery (35:16):
Julia emphasizes the importance of quality in dupes, especially in makeup lines where shade replication is crucial for consumer satisfaction.

Elise Hu (42:17):
Elise provides a detailed account of her skincare routine, highlighting products from brands like One Skin, Lemieux Esthetician Baseline, Medicube, and Missha, showcasing a blend of both high-end and affordable K Beauty products.

---

Skincare and Makeup Routines

Julia Bellery (40:14):
Julia offers an in-depth look at her skincare and makeup regimen, favoring minimalistic approaches and emphasizing product quality and ingredient transparency. She discusses her preference for products that prioritize skin health over trendy additions.

Elise Hu (42:21):
Elise describes her double cleansing routine, incorporating both oil-based and water-based cleansers to maintain skin health, and shares her struggles and preferences in selecting effective sunscreens.

Doree Shafrir (43:38):
Doree humorously admits to forgetting sunscreen, prompting a discussion on the challenges of finding effective and pleasant-smelling sunscreens, ultimately favoring mineral options.

---

Wound Care Tips and Best Practices

Julia Bellery (46:10):
Julia shares essential wound care tips learned from esthetician school:

1. Stop Activity: Immediately cease any activity if bleeding starts.
2. Wear Gloves: Always protect your hands to maintain hygiene.
3. Keep It Simple: Less is more when it comes to skincare routines, avoiding overuse of products to prevent skin irritation.
4. Patch Test: Always test new products on a small skin area before full application to avoid adverse reactions.
5. Listen to Your Skin: Pay attention to skin responses and adjust routines accordingly.

Doree Shafrir (46:18):
Doree echoes the sentiment, emphasizing the importance of minimalism in skincare to maintain the skin’s health and integrity.

---

Final Thoughts and Personal Reflections

Doree Shafrir (48:35):
Doree expresses admiration for the guests' vision and passion for the beauty industry, reflecting on her own experiences and intentions moving forward.

Elise Hu (48:53):
Elise shares her excitement for the continuous innovation in K Beauty products, highlighting the dynamic nature of the beauty industry and her eagerness to explore new offerings.

Hosts' Personal Updates (49:08 - 52:42):
Doree and Elise share personal updates about their families, upcoming events, and mutual interests, maintaining the podcast’s relatable and community-oriented atmosphere.

---

Conclusion

Doree Shafrir (52:42):
Doree wraps up the episode by thanking Julia and Sasa for their participation and emphasizing the enriching conversation they had.

Elise Hu (54:53):
Elise adds closing remarks, reiterating the value of the crossover and looking forward to future collaborations.

---

Notable Quotes

• Elise Hu (24:29):
  "I worry that the kinds of journalism that's gonna hold city hall accountable or the kinds that are really boring and about climate change or something that people don't necessarily gravitate to... might get sidelined."

• Julia Bellery (27:00):
  "Dupes are okay, they're good. Depending on what people are dealing with economically or the availability of petty cash, dupes are a great option for people to not spend outside of their means."

• Elise Hu (31:19):
  "SK2 makes its really famous facial treatment Essence, that sells one bottle every three seconds or something around the world. It's $190, and you can get a Missha dupe for $19."

• Julia Bellery (46:10):
  "Less is more, especially with your skin. The beauty industry's incentive is to get you to buy and try as many things as they possibly can, but sometimes it's better to keep it simple."

---

Key Takeaways

• Dupe Culture:
  Dupes offer affordable alternatives for beauty enthusiasts, though it's crucial to distinguish between genuine dupes and dangerous counterfeits.

• K Beauty Innovation:
  Korean beauty brands excel in creating effective skincare products at accessible price points, pushing the boundaries of ingredient transparency and product efficacy.

• Minimalist Skincare:
  Adopting a minimalist approach to skincare can promote healthier skin by avoiding overuse of products and paying attention to individual skin needs.

• Podcasting vs. Traditional Journalism:
  The shift towards creator-driven content in podcasting allows for more personal and in-depth discussions but may risk sidelining important yet less engaging topics.

• Personal Connections in the Beauty Community:
  Collaborations like this crossover episode enrich the beauty community by blending diverse perspectives and experiences, fostering a deeper understanding of beauty trends and industry dynamics.

---

For More Information:
Visit forever35podcast.com for show notes, product links, and additional resources mentioned in this episode. Follow Forever35 on Instagram @forever35podcast and support the show on Patreon at patreon.com/forever35.

Transcript

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[Dory Shafreer]

This episode is brought to you by Earth Animal. Have you ever been overwhelmed at the pet store looking at dog treats and you're faced with a wall of ears, hooves, mystery meat, and then rawhide? It looks harmless, but if you know people with dogs, then you probably know someone whose dog had a bad experience with rawhide. But now there's earth animals. No hide shoes, no rawhide, no nasties. Just simple sustainable ingredients and an extra extra. Plus no awful smell. Plus no hide chews actually last. Get 25% off no hide with code pod25earthanimal.com Give them a try, but remember to always supervise chewing. Subject to availability terms and conditions apply. See earthanimal.com for details. Hello and welcome. Welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafreer.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dory Shafreer]

Welcome back to the show. We have a very special crossover episode with the Glow Job podcast today.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, those ladies are rad. If y' all haven't tuned in or you haven't heard about Glow Job yet, you will later in the episode when you meet the two very glowy, very knowledgeable hosts of that show. But first, Dory, welcome back. Dory's been on summer vacation on the east coast. Tell us all about it.

[Dory Shafreer]

Thank you. Yeah, it was really nice. I mean, it was. It was a lot of driving, but it was all good. And I got to see a lot of family, which was really nice, and spend time with my parents, my brother, my sister, my nieces, my son, my husband. The list goes on. We were in Connecticut at my brother's house Monday and Tuesday. And on Tuesday, my brother took Matt golfing because it was my birthday.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Oh, Happy birthday to Matt.

[Dory Shafreer]

Happy birthday, Matt. And I hung out with my niece. My son stayed in Boston with my parents and I got to hang out with my 8 year old niece. And you know, I don't have a girl so it was like fun to do girl stuff. I mean, you know, stereotypically girl stuff. I'm sure Henry would enjoy a manicure and pedicure. But he, like, it's not so much that he's a boy, it's that I don't think he would have the patience. But you know, I could try it. My, I was getting like builder gel put on and it took a really long time and so I kept like adding things on to my. I was like, do you want to foot massage? Do you also want a chair massage? Like just trying to get her to, you know, not be bored. Yeah. And then we did some back to school shopping. She wanted to go to Walmart so we headed to Walmart and you know, she, she picked out some hello Kitty stuff. Some care. She's very into Care bears.

[Elise Hu]

Man. All the, all the cool toys of our youth are back.

[Dory Shafreer]

I know. Or I guess they never left. She really wanted checkered Converse slip ins. Okay. They, they don't have like name brand shoes at Walmart though, so she wasn't able to get those. But she did get a checkered backpack. So that was exciting. Cute. Yeah. So that was, that was super fun and it was nice to hang with my brother and yeah, it was, it was good. And it was nice that he and Matt got to spend some quality time together.

[Elise Hu]

I'm so glad. And then Matt and Henry are staying over a little longer too. Right. So you have the house yourself?

[Dory Shafreer]

I have the house myself, sort of. I'm. My tennis, my next tennis tournament starts tomorrow. So I won't really be, I won't really be around the house.

[Elise Hu]

Exciting for the next round of sectionals. The other sectionals, if you will.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Great. Well, I don't have too much to report from here. I already told the mini app listeners on Wednesday the biopsy is complete. They needled me. They got some cells out. I'll find out what is in those cells within I think three to five business days. So we await that. It was like not that painful. I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to drive home. But it, it wasn't bad because they give you lidocaine and then it's just kind of pressure. But it is weird knowing that they're like rooting around your boob in there. The on not. The radiologist was a really jolly guy and he meets everyone while they're splayed. They're like laid out on their back with their boob out. So I was like, hey, what's up, doctor? Whatever Your name is like, sorry to be meeting you this way. And he's like, don't worry. This is how I meet everyone. I don't even know if he would recognize me if I were standing up, you know, because I was just like on my back with my boob out. So that happened. And then the girls have been in ice skating camp all week, but down at the facility where the LA Kings train in El Seguno. Cause it's hard to find, like, ice rinks and ice time. Um, and they really like the camp, but it is between noon and five each day.

[Dory Shafreer]

What an. What an inconvenient amount of time and like, inconvenience. Start time.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And then I had asked. I had asked Mattie, their dad, to help out and do some of these. And he did, I think two of them. And then he was like, I have reached my limit for impositions. Like, this is. I can't do this anymore. And I was like, that track. I feel you. I feel you on that. And so I have one more day of that and then school starts.

[Listener 1]

School.

[Elise Hu]

School is back.

[Dory Shafreer]

School is back, baby.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. I cannot believe it.

[Dory Shafreer]

I know. It was like I left LA and like, we were still like in the throes of summer, and now I'm back and it's like, oh, school starting. You know what I mean? And it was just a week, but it does feel like that week was sort of. Sort of big, you know?

[Elise Hu]

Well, you were gone when we had our big cultural event of la, which was Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood Bowl.

[Listener 1]

I know.

[Dory Shafreer]

Oh, my God. So many people I know were there. Did you go?

[Elise Hu]

I wasn't there, but I had dinner with Rob's bestie, Darren and his wife Missy, and they were there and they said it was like an out of body religious experience seeing that show and how good Adam Lambert and Cynthia Erivo were. Like, the whole cast was great, I think. Yeah, they didn't. So I think the night they went, Josh Gad was replaced at the last minute by John Stamos.

[Dory Shafreer]

I think he had Covid.

[Elise Hu]

Oh. And Josh Gad was apparently better. So they didn't get Josh Gad, but they just said overall they couldn't believe it, that this cast and crew came together and the amount of talent, like the stratospheric talent and that it was. They had rehearsed for three weeks, just for three nights.

[Dory Shafreer]

That's crazy.

[Elise Hu]

It was three nights. It was like a shooting star. It happened, then it's over.

[Dory Shafreer]

I saw a really cool TikTok from the woman who runs the cameras at the Hollywood Bowl.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, interesting.

[Dory Shafreer]

It was very cool. So like, you know, she's like, okay, ready one, like telling them each, you know, each shot they have to do, like in real time. I mean, like live TV is. And that's. It's basically live tv. Yes, it was, it was really cool. I guess she does like a lot of the, A lot of those shows, so that was cool. Yes, I will. Yes, I will. Well, I have to find it. I don't know if I can find it again, but I will try to find it. And then. Yeah, I thought a lot. I saw a lot of comments being like, Adam Lambert just like rolled up in his regular Saturday night outfit. She was in like a, like a, like a sequence blazer. And I guess he also like very dramatically like took his ear monitors out and was just singing because he's such a diva.

[Elise Hu]

So good.

[Dory Shafreer]

I mean, you gotta love him.

[Elise Hu]

Absolutely perfect for that role.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah. I was sad to, sad to not be here for that, but glad to have experienced it on social media.

[Elise Hu]

There was like a 24 hour window where that's all I saw. It was just Jesus Christ Superstar at the Hollywood.

[Dory Shafreer]

Totally, totally.

[Elise Hu]

So I'm glad, you know, I'm glad it was such a cultural event. I feel like LA has needed it. It's been quite a year for la, so thank you to the artists making art out there. Yeah. So those are kind of like the big highlights from here. It's been pretty chill. It's been overall pretty chill here. I haven't thrown any new parties or gotten any harebrained schemes to throw any new parties.

[Dory Shafreer]

I know it's been three weeks. You haven't thrown another party.

[Elise Hu]

I know, but it was the altitude in Aspen. I'm like, still kind of recovering. That was. That messed me up.

[Dory Shafreer]

That's fair. That is fair.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, but. But we're back and. Yeah. Excited to be podcasting again.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yes. Should we introduce our guests?

[Elise Hu]

So, as Dory mentioned at the top of the show, we wanted to chat with the co hosts of Glow Job. They are Julia Bellery and Sasa Lee. They dive into the world of beauty, skin health, and the industry at large on their show, it explores how it intersects with business, pop culture and society. They come from two different kinds of backgrounds. Julia is a former tech executive who recently transitioned to the skincare industry. So that's what gives her some extra expertise in the industry itself. She leads strategic marketing at Lemieux Cosmetics, a Los Angeles based skincare brand. She also has expertise in digital Marketing, brand activations and customer experience. She's a UC Berkeley art history grad and spent over a decade in San Francisco managing sales and partnerships for companies like Oracle and Docusign. Outside of work, you can find her on the golf course, she's a golfer, or experimenting with the latest in Korean beauty. Yeah, they get into all their K beauty products, which is great.

[Dory Shafreer]

Sasa is a former fashion designer turned finance professional. She earned her BFA from Parsons School of Design and she has an MBA from New York University. I love that like left brain, right brains thing she has going a little. She started her career as a costume designer for commercial projects. Her clients included people you may have heard of like Kendrick Lamar. She began her finance career at Goldman Sachs and she is now a private wealth advisor at Wells Fargo Private bank in Beverly Hills. She manages assets for ultra high net worth entrepreneurs and executives. But she remains deeply connected with her art and design roots and she serves on the board of trustees of the New School, which is her alma mater. Parsons is part of the New School. So yeah, they were both really interesting, really brilliant, gorgeous people. Yeah, like they were like literally, like as Elise alluded to earlier, they were literally glowing. So their podcast is aptly named.

[Elise Hu]

Yes, yes.

[Dory Shafreer]

And it was. Yeah, it was, it was fun to talk to them.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafreer]

Just before we get to Julia and Sasa, just a reminder that you can Visit our website forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show, including everything that Julia and Sasa mentioned. And we are on Instagram @forever35 podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com forever35. We do our weekly casual chats there, our monthly pop culture chats there. And it's just, you know, it's just a good time. You also support the show. We also have ad free episodes on our Patreon.

[Elise Hu]

So sure.

[Dory Shafreer]

Do you check those out. Our favorite products are at shopmy us forever35. Our newsletter is at forever35podcast.com newsletter and if you want to reach us, please call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we will be right back.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back with the Glow Job gals.

[Dory Shafreer]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafreer]

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[Sleep Number Ad]

Why choose a Sleep number smart bed?

[Listener 1]

Can I make my site softer?

[Listener 2]

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[Sleep Number Ad]

Sleep that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Get early access to Sleep number's biggest sale of the year. 25% off the i8 bed, our most popular plus free home delivery limited time. All sleep number smart beds offer temperature solutions for your best sleep. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today.

[Dory Shafreer]

We are so excited to be talking to the women from the Glow Job podcast. Welcome to Forever 35. So today we are just going to have a chat between the two shows and I'm really excited to get into it. Julian Sassa, can you tell us a little bit about like what, where did this podcast come from? Why. Why did you want to start this show?

[Listener 1]

So Julia and I met kind of serendipitously. We had both at that time recently moved to la. I moved from New York to la. Julia relocated from SF to la and we both enrolled in an esthetician program. Mostly like purely out of just interest. Yeah, yeah. Like we're, we're definitely self proclaimed beauty nerds. So esthetician school seemed like, you know, a way to learn practical beauty. Right. And Julia, you know, I saw her on the first day of class. Like literally we, we were in the very first class together. We were both waitlisted for this one in particular and There were only two seats left and there were 20 people in the classroom fighting for two seats. And so like it was kind of like, yeah, right, I know, I know.

[Dory Shafreer]

Things.

[Julia Bellery]

Wild Wild West. Like literally it was like the hunger Games, just competing for these last two seats. But luckily we both got in and then, you know, we had to sit in the back of the class because we hadn't signed up. But, you know, we were sitting the back and became fast friends after that. The common theme was that we were always talking about beauty, because that, to us, it's just fun. Right? You know, we love sharing, you know, what's going on, the new launches, kind of how it's relating to pop culture, what we're seeing on social media, The.

[Listener 1]

M&As that are happening and beauty.

[Julia Bellery]

Exactly, yeah. Because I think, you know, with Sasa's background in finance and I come from a tech background, I think what was interesting with our conversations is that we were constantly kind of tying in not just, you know, the glitz and the glamour of beauty. Beauty, but also kind of like what goes on behind the scenes and understanding from a more like, business lens and just like, kind of chit chatting about that. But even going to esthetician school, we were, you know, LA's a great place to be in the beauty industry. From there, we just realized, like, let's start a podcast. And it was just really organic after that. And we officially launched in February of this year.

[Elise Hu]

Wow. Well, you sound great. You sound great together. I have to know, are you both estheticians now? Like, did you get licensed?

[Julia Bellery]

No.

[Listener 1]

You know, the. The thing about esthetician school, and this is sort of like our take, it's a great place to learn the basics. And pretty early on you can determine whether or not you actually want to be an esthetician. And very early on, we both decided we do not want to be estheticians.

[Julia Bellery]

So in reality, I think a lot of the program, like, yes, there are maybe like 75% of the people want to go and become practicing estheticians, whether it's like facialists or waxers. And then the rest are just kind of like Sasa and I, where it's a little bit more of a hobby. But the school we went to, it was also super modular. It wasn't like one of those, like nine to five, five days a week programs. You just kind of take a class as you go. So when we both signed up, we were just kind of dipping our toes into the water, but yeah.

[Dory Shafreer]

So what did you learn in esthetician school that, like, really surprised you?

[Listener 1]

Ooh. You know, what was surprising to me was how basic the level of training is, because you have to realize, like, an esthetician. Esthetician programs are training you to pass the state board. It's almost like, you know, when you take, like, an SAT class.

[Elise Hu]

Teaching to the test.

[Listener 1]

Yep, exactly. So it's like that. That is the end goal. And, like, the state board is trying to make sure that you don't get sued. Yeah, you don't get sued. You don't cut someone. You don't get someone infected with a bacterial infection. Like, and those are all really important things.

[Dory Shafreer]

I was just gonna say all. All sound important.

[Listener 1]

Valid.

[Julia Bellery]

They're definitely important. But I think that, like, the biggest thing that you learn at esthetician school is how to take care of wounds, disinfection, sanitation, and referring people to doctors with a little bit of skin care sprinkled in between.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, Interesting.

[Listener 1]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. Before we wrap up, then, we'll have you talk to us about, like, wound care. You know, just, like, quick wound care tips.

[Julia Bellery]

We got you, honestly. Exactly.

[Elise Hu]

We don't have, like, as interesting of an origin story. We were introduced by a shared editor, Dory and myself.

[Listener 1]

Oh, no way.

[Elise Hu]

Both of us have written books. Dory's written two. She's written a novel and a memoir. And the freelance editor who helped Dory with her memoir also, I then hired several years later to help me with my book Flawless, which is about the rise of Korean beauty. And she was great. She, like, spoke really glowingly of Dory. And I think Carrie introduced us so that I could get a copy of my book to Dory, who she then blurbed. You know, she, like, wrote a little nice quote about it, which is on the back of the book to this day. And we still hadn't met in person. But then I don't know if y' all know Dr. Becky, this parenting guru. She's, like, a big parenting coach, and she has. She has this brand called Good Inside, and her book Good Inside was coming out, and that's where Dory and I actually met. Like, we met at a brunch for yet another book. So we sound like very literary people.

[Listener 1]

I love it.

[Elise Hu]

Which we are not actually in real life, but we met there. And Dory had been running Forever 35 and hosting Forever 35 with the co founder Kate Spencer since, gosh, what? 2018, right?

[Dory Shafreer]

2018.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. So Forever 35 has been around for a minute.

[Dory Shafreer]

Kate was leaving, and I was, like, faced with this question of, do I keep the show going? Do I just, like, do we just stop? What do we do? Do I do it by myself? Like, I don't know. And then Elise and I had lunch, and I was like, hmm, Elise seems great. And then I was like, this might sound crazy, but would you ever want to, like, host the show with me? And she, as I now know Elise, is like, game to try anything. So she was like, sure, that's what.

[Listener 1]

You need in a co host.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yes, exactly.

[Elise Hu]

I also worked at Super Salad, so, yes, I basically say yes to all jobs.

[Julia Bellery]

Wait, that's amazing. Elise, had you done podcasting before, or is this your first experience?

[Elise Hu]

No, yeah, I've been a broadcast journalist my whole adult life. So I went to school for broadcast journalism. I went to Missouri, which is the world's oldest journalism school. They take, like, a lot of pride in that. And then from there, I did a lot of TV news. So I was like a TV news reporter standing outside a crime scene at, like, the 11 o' clock news. And then most of my, like, I guess I would say my. Like the latter half of my 20s and my 30s, I was at NPR, so a lot of audio. And so now I like podcasts for a living, basically. And it's. It's so much fun, like, a couple.

[Dory Shafreer]

Months after we started, because we were like, we'll do it as a trial. Like, we can, you know, Elise, if you're not into it, we can just do it for the summer. And then if you don't want to do it anymore, you don't have to. And I remember we had coffee, and Elise was like, wait, so people like that, we're just kind of, like, talking about ourselves? And I was like, yes.

[Elise Hu]

That's like, that was so surprising to me because, like, as journalists, like, as, you know, like very capital J hard news journalists, you're always taught to leave yourself out of stuff. Nobody wants to know about what's going on with your dog, but that's the total opposite.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah, we're getting questions like, we want to get to know Elise better, like, talk more about what she's into and all. And Elise was like, what?

[Elise Hu]

Oh, okay.

[Julia Bellery]

Oh, I love that. No, it's so interesting just watching how, like, parasocial relationships form through podcasting, because with your background in, like, broadcast journalism and talking about how it's so different than just kind of the relaxed nature of podcasting. Like, one of the things that we've discovered, like, coming from seeing a lot of beauty content and just kind of what's out there, like, the big difference is not that beauty content is stuffy, but, like, the short. Most of it is short form content. Right. So, you know, it's been our favorite thing to really get more than, I don't know, 30 seconds to talk about, you know, like, what's actually going on.

[Listener 1]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm actually, I'm really curious for your guys background giving given like, you know, sort of like, like you said, the literary background, the journalism background.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Listener 1]

Hot takes on, you know, the, the rise of. And I see this, it's across the board, but a lot of, you know, traditional journalists who have now turned to podcasting and like, who are trying to inject more of their personality and voice, like, I tend to see it a little bit more on the right than on the left. And it's just really interesting and I feel like it's probably gonna get embraced across the board, like moving forward just because podcasts are so much more popular now. Like, I'm curious if that like, is something you guys see too.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I mean, it's been a total transition to like this creator economy and so many big names in journalism are now just running their substacks and making a lot of money directly because the models that, that paid us just have kind of fallen apart for various reasons, largely because of the rise of the social Internet and things like that. What I, what I worry about though, and I'm totally in favor of more voices being creators in all forms. I only worry that like the kinds of journalism that's like gonna hold city, city hall accountable or the kinds that are like really boring and about climate change or something that people don't necessarily gravitate to or is just not going to be covered, or there's not going to be a way to fund that kind of journalism as a result. Because if, if we're all creators, we're all incentivized to make engaging content and like, make the content that we know works really well with audiences, then what about the content that doesn't work well for audiences but is still really important?

[Listener 1]

Yeah, I feel like we even see that in beauty too. Right? It's like, what's the thing that's going to be most viral? Like, let's just try to chase the most viral topic or what you, whatever you want to call it, or emotional or whatever.

[Elise Hu]

Like.

[Listener 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dory Shafreer]

What topics in beauty have you found to be especially like controversial or like hot topics lately?

[Julia Bellery]

You know, it's been really exciting because like, as a new podcast, we get to try a lot of different formats of episodes to see what our audience likes and really just learn about them. And so I think our first super viral episode was about the history of Estee Lauder. So we almost did it like an acquired Style where it was quite lengthy and we really went through 100 years of beauty. But then, you know, talking about the pop culture things like, whether it be like, Love island or the Maha movement or, you know, like, Republican makeup trends, like, I think we. We tend to lean on the side where, like, we just like to, you know, we're not taking a side, but just have. Just have something a little spicier to say, I think is always been fun for us.

[Listener 1]

Yeah, I think it's a lot of, like, we like to have the kind of dialogue that you want to hear, but you're not hearing. So, like, another episode we did was on the, like, the morals and ethics of dupes and dupe culture. Which beauty is the queen of dupes. Right, Exactly. Yeah. I mean, nothing is binary. Totally. To us, there's a side. There's, like, multiple sides to the story.

[Elise Hu]

Where did y' all land on dupe culture? Because we have just interviewed a guest who was like, I think dupe culture is on its way out. Like, that is something that is not going to stand the test of time. But where did you land after kind of batting it around?

[Julia Bellery]

You know, when we were first planning the episode, we literally did it like a speech and debate as we were doing prep, where I was team Con anti dupe, and Saso is team pro. And I think giving ourselves that assignment going into it really helped us to kind of unpack both sides and where people are coming from. But I think overall our consensus was dupes are okay, they're good. Right. And I think, you know, depending on what people are dealing with from, like, you know, an economic background or like, the availability of petty cash for them to spend on a beauty product, you know, we think that dupes are a great option for people to not spend outside of their means.

[Listener 1]

You know, these brands who spend so much in R and D and, like, rightfully so, they're pissed off when a brand blatantly just rips off, like, the branding, the back label, like, everything, all that. And so there's definitely a fair argument there. And that's part of, like, the moral quandary of a dupe. Right. But I don't know. Hot take. I don't think dupes are going anywhere. It's not if there's a demand. Right. And there's clearly a demand from the consumer that's just. It's never going to go away. Everyone always wants a cheaper option. And the platforms that we shop off of nowadays, like, the only incentivize that. Right. Like, let's get it cheaper, faster.

[Julia Bellery]

And I think the only difference is like whether it's a dupe or whether it is like an absolute fake of a product. And so like, for example, if you go on Alibaba, you can literally see road products, Medicube products, any trendy product, they will sell it to you for 2 cents on the dollar. Right. But it's not the same formula. It's literally only the packaging. So it's like it's those kind of dupes that we are not for. But you know, whether it's like a Nyx or an Elf, you know, I can't say anything bad about them really.

[Dory Shafreer]

That's a really, that's such an important distinction. Like, is it a fake? Is it actually trying to say that it is this other more expensive product or is it an imitation of it? And I think sometimes those distinctions get blurred.

[Listener 1]

Oh, totally, yeah. And, and perhaps like it's on kind of a little on purpose because even even some of the really great dupes, like as Julie was mentioning, like the Knicks and the Elfs and the, what is that Australian brand? Is it Emco? The brand that's Emco, I think their entire line is, I mean their, their founder has even said our business strategy is to create dupes. Like that's how we grow. So it's, it's a little bit in the like DNA makeup of some of these brands is to try to emulate the higher end brand as much as possible. But you're right. Just like, like straight out counterfeits are dangerous and can really mess. Yeah. Your skin.

[Julia Bellery]

Anti counterfeit.

[Listener 1]

Yeah, that's what we'll draw the line. There we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

I like that. This conversation helped kind of put a finer point on it. That's great. And then, and, and, and then my follow up is of course, like, what are your favorite dupes? Your imitations? Not counterfeit products. You mentioned Elf, you mentioned Nyx. But as you have tried them out in your own lives, like, are there certain products that you like that kind of emulate another product that you think is close to the real thing or as great as the real thing or even better.

[Listener 1]

Trying to think of one off the top of my mind, but one, like one product I think that gets duped so much is the Dior lip oil. You know that.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah.

[Listener 1]

And it's like, it's beautiful, right? It's aesthetic, it's got that pretty little cap, it's see through, it's Dior and it looks nice on your vanity Honestly, I'm trying to think of a few that I like, but a lot of brands have duped that product since. And quite frankly, like, they're all quite nice for a fraction of the cost. Right? Yeah.

[Julia Bellery]

And for me, like, when I think about dupes, like, I like a makeup dupe, but I am way more skeptical when it comes to a skincare dupe. And it's only because, like, when you have an understanding of, like, formulation and the delivery of active ingredients, like, the likelihood of a company being able to dupe, like, hard science is way lower than just duping something, like, in the color cosmetics space. So I think that's other, like, another distinction to add.

[Listener 1]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Except for this one Essence that I need to just really ride hard for. Okay, so SK2 makes its really famous facial treatment, Essence, that sells, like, one bottle every three seconds or something around the world. It's $190, and it looks just like water. Right. But about 10 years ago, I discovered that Missha, which is like a storefront Korean beauty brand, they make a dupe of it called, like, First Treatment or something Essence. And it's basically the same, and it's the best dupe that I know of out in the world.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah.

[Julia Bellery]

The Pieta that SK2 uses, it's really only like, a Galactomyces ferment filtrate. Right. And you can see that ingredient in so many toners. Like, the. The ordinary just released one. Right. And so it's not the most expensive ingredient to. For me, like, with. So I'm not surprised that, like, Misha would crank out a good one.

[Elise Hu]

I don't know what words you just said there when you were talking about all those ingredients, but I totally believe you.

[Listener 1]

You know, I think that's part of the. Okay, so this actually brings up a really interesting topic because it's like. Because some of these ingredients in skincare are words with a bunch of syllables that we are not familiar with. They make it sound as if it's, like, spooky and mystical and like, ooh, this is too complicated for you to understand, which is why it's almost 200 dol. When you. When you boil it down, a lot of these ingredients are so cheap to, like, when they buy them in bulk because they are buying these from ingredient suppliers. And so, like, you were talking earlier, Lise, about your book about K Beauty. I think what K Beauty has done so well has been to formulate products using these kinds of ingredients and introducing them at price points that are, like, sub$50 and way more accessible. And also doing a really good job of marketing, you know, or explaining why these ingredients are efficacious. Like, I don't know. I think I feel like the. That kind of, like, Eurocentric prestige skincare is kind of got a rival in K Beauty, which has made it a lot easier to. To just, like, disseminate.

[Elise Hu]

It is called the Missha Time Revolution, the first Essence. This is the dupe, and it's $19.

[Dory Shafreer]

This is like. This is like a famous. This is a famous dupe of that essence.

[Elise Hu]

10% of the cost of the original.

[Julia Bellery]

Crazy. That is wild.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Listener 1]

I mean, but that also kind of goes to show you the margins. Like, the margins. And, you know, you can price one product at 190 and then another product at 19.99, and yet, I bet you they both are profitable. Profitable companies. Yeah. Doing quite well.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Wild.

[Dory Shafreer]

I know.

[Listener 1]

Yeah. What are your guys's favorite dupes besides the. The Misha Essence?

[Elise Hu]

Well, that's mine. I feel like it's like, I will r. I will ride hard for that product basically forever trying to think.

[Dory Shafreer]

I do use a NYX concealer that I really like, and it's definitely. I don't know if it's, like, a specific dupe of, like, a specific concealer. It's the nyx. Can't stop, won't stop. I assume it probably is. I just don't know, like, which. I'm, like, googling. I think it's really good. And it's, of course, you know, like, eight bucks or something.

[Julia Bellery]

I love that.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah, there's just. That's one of the drugstore products that I am pretty loyal to.

[Julia Bellery]

But another thing that, like, a lot of these makeup companies will do is, like, they're not only duping, like, the product, but they even will dupe colors. Right? So, like, yeah. Oh, the shade colors and famous shades, like, whether it's like the Nars Orgasm Blush. Right. Like, there's so many brands that will kind of come out with a color as similar as possible to that, but that's why people like them, because, you know, getting as close as possible to. To the original cult classic.

[Dory Shafreer]

Totally. Totally.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, let's take a break, and we will be right back.

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[Listener 1]

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[Listener 2]

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[Sasa Lee]

Ever feel like you're carrying something heavy and don't know where to put it down? Or wonder what on earth you're supposed to do when you just can't seem to cope? I'm Hesi Jo, a licensed therapist with years of experience providing individual and family therapy. And I've teamed up with BetterHelp to create mind if We Talk? A podcast to demystify what therapy's really about. In each episode, you'll hear guests talk about struggles we all face, like living with grief or managing anger. Then we break it all down with a fellow mental health professional to give you actionable tips you can apply to your own life. Follow and listen to. Mind if we talk on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget, your happiness matters.

[Dory Shafreer]

Can I ask, you know your podcast is called Glow Job, and I will say you are both truly glowing. So could we get a little rundown of your skincare and makeup routines, please?

[Listener 1]

Yeah, you know, I think we both follow the same mantra, Kiss, which is keep it simple, stupid. Because, look, you could do a lot of damage to your skin by putting way too much shit on it. And I think sometimes people think, you know. Yeah, people think more is more. It's really not. Your skin will be so pissed off at you. I'm trying to think, like, Julia is the makeup girly. Like, I come to Jules for makeup advice. So, like, she is. Oh, no. Julia actually taught me how to put on concealer properly.

[Elise Hu]

I did.

[Listener 1]

Because I used to not mess with concealer. I used to hate concealer. I was like, what? What is the point of this stuff? It's, like, goopy. It's so confusing.

[Dory Shafreer]

Like, I mean, also, maybe you didn't have anything to conceal, so.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Julia Bellery]

It's so nice that you say that. I mean, we're. We're almost 35. Like, we're closer to 35 than not. But let me see. Like, if I had to break it down, I think one of the challenging things is, like, and I'm sure you guys are in a similar position, but we get sent a lot product. Like, more product than we will ever be able to use. And, you know, going to esthetician school, you know how fickle your skin barrier can be. So we are quite picky. So Sasa and I, you know, we do A full ingredient deep dive and check every single product we use before we put it on our faces. But some of my favorite brands, we've been doing a lot of exploration into K Beauty lately. Like, we're calling it now. It's the Summer of K Beauty. We're seeing so many launches at Sephora, at Ulta. Right. All of Young is coming out here. So we've been dabbling a lot with new K Beauty products.

[Dory Shafreer]

But.

[Julia Bellery]

And also for me, like, I've been switching my routine and incorporating more Korean makeup products. So, like Misha, I really like Cleo for base. The few e with those little jello pudding pots I think are really fun. But yeah, a new K Beauty.

[Listener 1]

I should say a new Korean makeup brand that we discovered recently that I'm actually really enjoying and I think is coming to Ulta pretty soon is Unleasha.

[Julia Bellery]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

I don't know. It are.

[Listener 1]

It's so fun. Oh, my God, you guys, it's so fun. It's so. It's color cosmetics. They're known for their glitters and, like, glitter shadows.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Listener 1]

I'm not usually like, a big glitter shadow person because it can get too, like, shiny. Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Listener 1]

I'm not trying to go to, like, a Taylor Swift concert right now. It's like, that's the kind of vibe I usually think of. But. But they're like, they do these really beautiful nude palettes with a really gorgeous range of colors. They also have these, like, really fun lip products. They just have, like, really. It's. It's something different for, I would say, like, from the kind of makeup I normally use. But it. The. The color quality is great, I think.

[Julia Bellery]

Like, like the K Beauty, like, everything that they do is just a little bit different. Because now, nowadays, anytime I feel like I go into Sephora, I feel like every brand is just kind of copying each other with every launch. Like, oh, we're releasing a powder blush. Now we're rele. Powder blush. Now we're releasing a powder blush. And maybe it's because we weren't as savvy to K Beauty. Korean skincare, yes. Korean beauty, not so much. So, like, seeing these newer products are more exciting, I think.

[Dory Shafreer]

I feel like we didn't get the. The specific skincare and makeup routines that.

[Julia Bellery]

Oh, so you want a full breakdown?

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah.

[Julia Bellery]

Okay. I can do this. So my go to cleanser these days. I use the one from One skin. It's fabulous. It's super, super gentle. I use a lot of products from Lemieux Esthetician Baseline but they retail to everybody, so I use their toner. So one interesting fact about Sasa and I is that we don't really use retinol products even though we are over 30. And you know, it's just for personal preference. For me, I have super sensitive skin. I feel like retinol can be really intense. So I love anything with a growth factor. Lemieux has great growth factors. Or Exosomes. I use some for Medicaid or Medic 8. We were just debating how that brand is pronounced and what else do I love?

[Elise Hu]

Dory loves Medicaid too.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah, I do love Medicaid.

[Julia Bellery]

Fabulous. Yeah. So lots of fun products there. And then I've been using some Medicube also and just incorporating some of like, I had to try some of their like viral jelly, like moisturizers because I was just so interested. And then they had that prime day sale. So.

[Listener 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julia Bellery]

So that's skincare. And then for makeup, I mentioned Clio cosmetics. I've been using their cushion foundation. Love it. I love say Beauty, Love Tower 28. Like it's a cream product.

[Elise Hu]

I have their cream blush on right now.

[Listener 1]

Me too.

[Julia Bellery]

Yeah. And then Anastasia Dip Brow. I hold that true since 2016. I am still repping that on a daily basis.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah, I love that.

[Listener 1]

Yeah. I'm trying to think about my routine. So for I do a double cleanse in the evenings. So I like Han skins. They have a pha oil based cleanser that, that I love. It's just honestly the texture and it's really great at breaking down just oil and grime and makeup. And then my cleanser I alternate. Right now I'm using a beauty stack cleanser that has. Trying to think, yeah, no, I'm using the beauty stat cleanser right now. But like Julie was saying before, I've been incorporating a little bit more K beauty recently. I've been really enjoying the Mixon Centella Asiatica Essence that they came out with.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, I heard about that.

[Listener 1]

It's lovely. Honestly, like the texture is great.

[Julia Bellery]

Bean essence is good.

[Listener 1]

Yeah, the bean's good. But the Centella one is like my favorite. And you know, I sometimes deal with perioral dermatitis around my mouth and it's like kind of. It's one of those like inflammatory things that like, honestly, doctors have no idea what causes it and there are just no ways to really like treat it. The simplest way to treat Perigordal dermatitis is just like to like to go kiss, keep it simple, stupid, and just use very minimal products but this essence has been so calming. So I really enjoy it. At night I use trying to think what serum I'm used to. Oh, right now I'm using the Sachi skin.

[Julia Bellery]

Try alpha pigmentation corrector.

[Listener 1]

I've been really enjoying that. They're a lovely London based brand and it's great for anyone with melasma and hyperpigmentation. I don't know if you can see on camera but I have like freckles for days and like they just never go away. They only get stronger and stronger and it cute sometimes but you know, you got to get them under control. And I also like to use a bakuchiol at night because I don't like using retinol products. So I have one by matter of fact that I really enjoy. And yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think. I also use some limew products like their moisturizer and my go to sunscreen right now is I forgot my sunscreen.

[Dory Shafreer]

I know.

[Elise Hu]

How could you?

[Listener 1]

How could you?

[Dory Shafreer]

I'm appalled.

[Listener 1]

But right now I'm using the ultraviolet. I have a mineral sunscreen that I really enjoy. Okay. And ultraviolet makes a great lip SPF too. That is the hardest thing for me to find is like a lip SPF that I actually want to reapply.

[Julia Bellery]

I just got their spray spf.

[Listener 1]

So here's my, my gripe about spray SPF is. The only way to formulate a spray SPF is that it has to be really high in alcohol content and. And I don't like the smell of.

[Elise Hu]

Alcohol on your body. Yeah.

[Listener 1]

Yes. You know what I mean? Like when that spray comes out, I feel like I'm in a doctor's clinic and I feel like I'm about to vomit and so I can't stomach that smell. But it is the only way to stabilize a chemical spray sunscreen.

[Elise Hu]

That's one.

[Julia Bellery]

There is. Because I've tried a lot. Right now I'm doing this exercise of trying out every single Korean sunscreen I can get my hands on. And just like I know it's been like 10, right? So I've gone through a lot. I know it's been exciting. But also there's like new ones dropping every single day. So it's really hard to keep up. It's like that stat like you will never eat at every restaurant in New York City because more will open up before you ever finish. That's how I feel about this Korean sunscreen experiment.

[Elise Hu]

Well, let me just recommend if you haven't tried the do me NAS sunscreen.

[Julia Bellery]

I have tried that one, I like it.

[Elise Hu]

And it's like a little bit, there's a little bit of pigment to it. And I used it on vacation all of I guess a couple weeks ago, and it was pretty solid except thicker than I like.

[Julia Bellery]

That's what I was gonna say. It's a little bit thicker than your average Korean sunscreen, but it's supposed to be the most popular one amongst Korean golfers. So, you know, and it's supposed to be a dark, like a dark spot, like really focusing on like it seems like hyperpigmentation.

[Elise Hu]

That's what I was gonna say. It just seemed. It's thicker than I like, I like a, like something a little bit. It not as creamy, but it ended up being very protective. So there's that. So did it serve its function? Yes. Yeah. So if I'm gonna go out like hiking the dominas, Korean sunscreen is very good. Before we wrap up, is there? And listeners, we will make sure that on our Forever 35 show notes, everything that these ladies just talked about, we will include in our show notes. But also on our shop my page in case that you want to try some of them. But is there anything that you want to leave us with? Any like wound care tip perhaps that you learned in esthetician school?

[Listener 1]

Let's see. Well, the first sign of blood, you stop. Stop whatever you're doing.

[Julia Bellery]

Always wear gloves.

[Listener 1]

Yeah. No, no, no. Let's see. You know, honestly, and this really isn't wound care and I think I've said it now three times. What I really want to emphasize, like less is more, especially with your skin. And I think what the look, we, both of us, we love the beauty industry. It's like fabulous. It's so much fun. Skin care and beauty is just like you could, we could consume this stuff all day. But the beauty industry's incentive is also to get you to buy and try as many things as they possibly can.

[Julia Bellery]

They are the ones pushing the 15 step agenda.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Listener 1]

They are behind that. So, you know, just, just, just be smart with what you're purchasing and putting on your skin. And also patch test. I know it's so, like, it sounds so boring and like annoying because when you get a new product, you're like, I want to try it right now. But like, let's save our skin just like one day.

[Julia Bellery]

Yeah, you'll appreciate your patch test when it actually reacts.

[Listener 1]

But also here is my hot take, which is like your skin is also your largest living organ. So, you know, maybe we don't need to, to push it Maybe that is your sign. And part of the reason why I stopped using tretinoin, which is the prescription form of retinol. Right. Like, my skin was saying, you know, I. I don't think I'm enjoying this anymore. I remember I had a year and a half of, like, great results with tretinoin. And then by year two, my skin was like, it's kind of, like doing.

[Julia Bellery]

Like, really intense hit or Barry's Boot Camp, let's say that. Like, let's say your Tret is Barry's Boot Camp. Yes. It's a great workout, and it's really good for you. But do you have to it to get your dream body? No.

[Dory Shafreer]

Right.

[Julia Bellery]

That's how I would frame it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Listener 1]

Pick and choose what works for you. If you're a Pilates girl. Do Pilates. You're a hit girl. Do hit.

[Julia Bellery]

I like long walks, so that's.

[Dory Shafreer]

I love that.

[Elise Hu]

Julia, Sasa, thank you so much. Yeah, y' all were awesome. It was a delight to get to chat with you.

[Julia Bellery]

Thank you so much.

[Listener 1]

It was so much fun.

[Dory Shafreer]

Whenever I talk to people like Julia and Sasa, I'm like, oh, I wish I, like, had a vision like that when I was, you know, 30 or however old.

[Elise Hu]

I'm. I'm really excited about all of the K Beauty products that they're, like, very hip to, because I feel like I get really into one, like, certain ones that I really are my MVPs. But there's so many new sunscreens that are. There's so much sunscreen innovation in K Beauty, so I'm excited about all the ones that they talked about about.

[Dory Shafreer]

Totally. Well, last week, my intention was to enjoy my time with family, and I am going to say that I did that. I. I didn't even talk at the top of the show about the time I spent with my sister. Yeah, we played tennis.

[Elise Hu]

Sorry. Yeah, sorry. We didn't mention that. At the top.

[Dory Shafreer]

I saw my nieces. Henry got to see his cousins, and also my brother and his daughter came up with to my sister's house in the Berkshires. So all of us were together for one night, which was really fun also. So I think I fulfilled that intention with flying colors. Now, this weekend, as discussed, I have another sectionals tournament. I was, like, very stressed, I realize, about the last one, and it put, like, a lot of pressure on myself, and I think that made me, like, enjoy it less. And this time I'm just sort of like. Like, I'm just gonna. Just gonna enjoy the moment and, like, be happy that I'm there and. Yeah, yeah, you know, so that's, that's what I'm doing. What about you?

[Elise Hu]

My intention matched yours. I also wanted to enjoy time with family because I think I had been away and I missed my kids or. And they had been away. They had sleepaway camp. And I did. I think that it's been really fun. We haven't done anything like huge. You know, we did a lot of get togethers with other kids over the weekend, but I stayed around, you know, so it was like the parents and the kids were all together and we went swimming, we went to dinner, we went to puppy yoga. Oh yeah, it's yoga class with puppies. A litter of puppies and they just like crawl around and on top of you and lick your face. And it's like a real dopamine or serotonin, whichever one it is. It's like a real high to be with the puppies and do yoga at the same time. So I've gotten to do some activities and things with the girls and just chill. And Luna's having a good time as she always does, like taking packaging, you know, if we get something delivered and there's like excess wrap and styrofoam pieces and she like plays with it. She makes various art installations out of it. So it's just one been fun, kind of like being around, you know, and not really doing much in particular. So I did it. And then this weekend there's a really fun tennis tournament going on right now. Not sectionals though. Sectionals is going to be fun for you.

[Dory Shafreer]

Is very important.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. There's also, I think it's the Canadian Open that's happening where Ben Shelton is a first time finalist in an ATP 1000 tennis match. And I'm really excited because Ben Shelton is like one of my favorite tennis players. I always feel kind of creepy about it because he's like 20 and I'm.

[Dory Shafreer]

Like, oh no, he's not that young.

[Elise Hu]

Is it inappropriate that I'm such a super fan of Ben Shelton's but. So my intention will be he's 22. Still. Still, you know. Yeah, I, I do feel odd about it. So I. Yeah, but he's the same age as like Alcaraz or something, right? And we all root for him. So.

[Dory Shafreer]

And Sinner is. I think sinner's 23. So like.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, they're all, they're all born after I graduated from high school. So I, I'm really excited for that. So my intention is just going to be to like watch and enjoy some tennis. My intention will not be to play tennis, but just to watch it because keeping keeping the expectations low.

[Dory Shafreer]

Can I ask a question about this?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafreer]

Do you. Do you have the tennis channel? Do you pay for the time?

[Elise Hu]

I do. I sure do. Yeah. Well, that way I can watch on my phone too. Yeah. Because I can watch it on my phone when I'm at airports because, you know, I'm like en route to things a lot and so it's fun just to like sit around and watch tennis. Business.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Elise Hu]

I think it's a worthy investment.

[Dory Shafreer]

Yeah, I've been thinking about it, so. All right. It's good to hear that you like it. All right, everybody, thanks so much for listening. Thanks for bearing with us while I was on vacation. And just a reminder that Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dorisa Freer and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Talk to y' all soon. Bye. Right now, what's one thing you could do to change your life for the better? Well, for me, I love my Masterclass subscription. I've been learning more about perimenopause and how the mind body connection can change symptoms and mood from the magic of menopause. And not to be dramatic, but it's kind of changed my life. With Masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best best. Download classes and watch them offline, which is perfect for making the most of your time spent traveling. This summer. With plans starting at $10 a month billed annually, you get unlimited access to over 200 classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs and more. With Masterclass, you get thousands of bite sized lessons across 13 categories that can fit into even the busiest of schedules. Eat more ethically, healthfully and sustainably with Michael Pollan. Build habits that stick with atomic habits, author James Clear. And take care of your gut, brain, skin and more with science based tips from leading experts. Three in four surveyed members feel inspired every time they watch Masterclass. And right now, Forever 35 listeners get an additional 15% off any annual [e-mail] Forever 35. That's 15% [e-mail] Masterclass.com Forever 35.

[Elise Hu]

As.

[Listener 2]

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